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View Diary: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark? A look at Young Earth Creationist craziness (84 comments)

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  •  The deepest insult to God in this hypothesis (0+ / 0-)

    is that Adam and Eve and the Serpent in the Garden have to be history so that the Fall is history, or else God cannot redeem us by sacrificing himself (Junior) to himself (Dad) in the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

    So much for omnipotence and omnibenevolence.

    Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

    by Mokurai on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 10:12:25 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Who makes that argument? (0+ / 0-)

      Last I checked, the argument was A and B must take place in order to avoid scriptural contradiction.  They're not arguing that God couldn't have done something different.  They're God did it according to their reading of the Bible. YMMV on how well they've met their burden.

      •  Ken Ham & Co., Answers in Genesis (0+ / 0-)

        among others. Ham stated this explicitly during his debate with Bill Nye, and it is on the page

        7.5 Danger No 5: Relativation of Jesus’ Work of Redemption by Dr. Werner Gitt

        If one does not regard Adam as a real historical person but as a mythical figure, then one can consequently not accept Jesus’ work of redemption as real.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 04:34:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's not the argument you described (0+ / 0-)

          Gitt is plainly arguing readers must either accept the historicity of the Fall myth or reject the scriptural testament of purpose and mechanics of redemption.  It's a weak position that even believers could easily refute, but it is not an argument for a small God.

          •  No, I said (0+ / 0-)
            so much for omnipotence and omnibenevolence
            not them.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 07:14:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know you said it, but (0+ / 0-)

              you mentioned it while describing an argument advanced by creationists:

              The deepest insult to God in this hypothesis
              is that Adam and Eve and the Serpent in the Garden have to be history so that the Fall is history, or else God cannot redeem us by sacrificing himself (Junior) to himself (Dad) in the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

              So much for omnipotence and omnibenevolence.

              How would I read that as something other than your characterization of the creationist position?

              I understand the temptation to sling the small God retort around--it played well in Cosmos.  But it's a strawman.

              •  Well then I have no idea what you mean by (0+ / 0-)

                the small god retort, either as you apply it to me or to Cosmos.

                I stated a Creationist claim. Then I commented that it is nonsense on their own principles, whose application they fail to see.

                Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                by Mokurai on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 08:56:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  "Small God" (0+ / 0-)

                  As in a good that is not omnipotent (or omnibenevolent--though I question whether this is a defining characteristic in Abrahamic theology). You're arguing that the creationist theodicy requires denying these transcendent qualities of God, correct?

                  •  I'm observing that it (0+ / 0-)

                    does deny it, when compared with all of the non-Creationist churches that allow God to save us however He will.

                    Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                    by Mokurai on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 12:14:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's my point (0+ / 0-)

                      Creationist churches do not deny that it's within God's power to offer redemption--or do anything else--any way he damn well pleases.  To simply say God did something a certain way is not to assert that he couldn't have done it in any other fashion.

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