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View Diary: The "Marxism is coming back" trope (264 comments)

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  •  What would one call a president w/ a 91% top (11+ / 0-)

    marginal tax rate?  How about having corporations pay as much as 32% of federal revenue compared to about 10% today?

    I guess if you were a 5 star general who won 2 landslide victories as a Republican, the label "Marxist" doesn't fit.

    Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

    by RFK Lives on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 08:02:15 PM PDT

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    •  Back then, it mattered less that he was a (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RFK Lives, RhodeIslandAspie, ER Doc

      Republican, and more that he had won those victories in a war that was, IMO, eminently justifiable.

      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 05:37:20 AM PDT

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    •  Comrade Eisenhower (14+ / 0-)

      was president in the socialist utopian 1950's when unions were powerful, blue collar workers were paid decently and retirement plans were adequate to cover the cost of retirement.

      “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

      by FishOutofWater on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 05:42:45 AM PDT

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      •  ROTFLMAO! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ER Doc, moldyfolky

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 06:05:02 AM PDT

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      •  Socialist Social Democrats r modeled on capitalism (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        moldyfolky

        That is the predominant form of socialism in the world these days and looking at it one sees it is like circa late 1940's through 1960's American capitalism. They have a regulated system with markets, when one can open a business, own a store or a corporation. Though in a system generally with high progressive taxes and a strong voice for labor. With large government investment plowed into their states.  

        Which was how we did capitalism back in the day when we used the Marshall plan to rebuild Europe and Japan. When we grew the most prosperous nation ever with ever increasing trends towards equality, economically and otherwise. I believe that they learned that from us  and that in a way they've carried the torch for that kind of capitalism while we've allowed it to be extinguished. And even with all of their current economic problems the EU now has a GDP equal to that of America. They prospered as well.

        We need to spend more time showing how stupid and boring the claims of 'creeping Marxism' are when a.) Social Democracy is probably closer to the model Marx envisioned than b.) Communism, which now has only about 1/2 dozen mostly poor economies still supporting it. That failed economic system is not the kind of liberalism we aim at and it is time to call bull$h*t on conservatives who spread that lie.

        While many of them traipse blissfully unaware of the creeping Fascism many of their Neoconservative corporate masters envision

        •  Social Democracy and Nation Socialism are both... (0+ / 0-)

          critiques of orthodox marxism which developed around the same time and from some of the same philosophical writings, they just placed their emphasis on different facets. Check out "The Primacy of Politics" by Sheri Berman

          "Congressmen should be just like athletes. They should have to wear the brand of the corporation they're working for." - Robin Williams

          by Independant Man on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 10:15:12 AM PDT

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          •  I'm afraid this isn't entirely accurate (1+ / 0-)
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            moldyfolky

            Up until 1914, Social Democracy was the repository of orthodox Marxism. There were division and debates within the movement, such as the disputes between Bernstein and Luxemburg but no one seriously questioned the SD's Marxist bona fides.

            It was only with the onset of WWI and the abandonment of internationalism by the major European SD Parties that an actual split began to manifest. No less a figure than Lenin refused to believe that the German SD's had voted for war credits when the news first broke. He thought it false propaganda put out by the German government.

            The split became final only with the revolutionary wave that the war brought forth. First in Russia and then in Germany. In both cases the Social Democrats broke into Revolutionary and anti-revolutionary factions. In Germany, the Right SDs actively aided in the violent suppression of the revolutionary Left.

            The motivations in both camps were multifaceted and complex. It's important to recognize that there were those on both sides that argued they were upholding "true" Marxism. In the case of Russia, it was the Mensheviks who were upholding the traditional view of orthodox Marxism, whereas it was the Bolsheviks who were arguing for an innovative departure in the Marxist analysis and program.

            The narrative you present is a relic of this conflict, where each side vied with the other for the mantle of "true" Marxism. This led to a resort to obscurantism and historical falsification by both sides in order to buttress their competing claims.  

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 01:09:32 PM PDT

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    •  I'd call him a successful President. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RhodeIslandAspie

      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 06:09:51 AM PDT

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      •  But nowadays I wouldn't call him a Republican n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD
        •  Capitalism is not so (0+ / 0-)

          much about how much money you have, as it's about how you make your money.  If you use your money to make your money, you're a capitalist.  Capitalists invest money (in labor, stocks, rents, etc) to make their money.  The rest of us sell our labor to make our money.  Capitalists use their money to make money.  We use our money to buy the goods we need so that we can continue working.  

          I'd be interested to hear where Obama's money comes from.  If primarily from his book sales he's not a very good example of a capitalist.  If from investments, then he's an excellent example of a capitalist.  That said, Obama's economic policies have been decidedly tilted in favor of capitalists rather than the rest of us (workers).

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