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View Diary: Midday open thread: Juneteenth, tormenting opossums in NC, Schweitzer's 'gaydar' (63 comments)

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  •  Whoa (0+ / 0-)

    I never had somebody follow me from another thread entirely to go after me somewhere else. Stalk much?

    Do you have anything specifically that you want to address regarding my original post in this thread? Any point that you see differently? Let's engage in political discourse.

    •  You must always say the same thing. (0+ / 0-)

      Don't send a teddy bear to the Martinez family, they don't want you to intrude on their grief - send a postcard to a politician Not One More

      by 88kathy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:43:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The point is as I said -- we are trying to elect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      i saw an old tree today

      Democrats. You can post anything about GOP you want. Lay off the Democrats.

      Obama and Hillary for their calculated, strategic bigotry for political reasons

      I wish that kind of talk was HRable. It's disgusting as far as I am concerned.

      Don't send a teddy bear to the Martinez family, they don't want you to intrude on their grief - send a postcard to a politician Not One More

      by 88kathy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:46:17 PM PDT

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      •  Opposition to gay marriage is bigotry. (0+ / 0-)

        Period, end of story. People that oppose gay marriage are bigots.  Go ahead and HR me for saying that.

         It's not a difference of opinion. It's not an valid alternative way of seeing things. It's just plain old bigotry, no different than saying that you oppose interracial marriage.

        And when it's a political calculation instead of your actual misguided opinion, well, I don't know what exactly to call that except disgusting.

        •  so HRC and Barack Obama disgust you. (0+ / 0-)

          shout it from the roof tops every chance you get.

          Repeat it over and over in every thread.

          No one will notice.

          Don't send a teddy bear to the Martinez family, they don't want you to intrude on their grief - send a postcard to a politician Not One More

          by 88kathy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 01:02:25 PM PDT

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          •  Their craven political calculations (0+ / 0-)

            on a topic that every decent person should support automatically is what I find disgusting.

             It's also pretty disgusting that they not only get a pass for doing this, but we aren't even allowed to mention the insane hypocrisy of it, as we saw with the Diane Rehm interview a few days ago.

            We are expected to pretend that HRC (and Obama) DIDN'T oppose gay marriage for political purposes. That's pretty disgusting in my opinion. I will have no part of it.

        •  while there are all sorts of reasons to be opposed (4+ / 0-)

          to bigotry in all forms, whenever and where ever it is seen, it seems, nonetheless counterproductive to chastize folks who have changed their positions away from bigotry rather than concentrating on those who still hold bigoted positions.

          We work to overcome bigotry, yes?  That means our goal is to get people who hold bigoted positions to change their minds, vis-a-vis bigotry.  When they do this, we have achieved success.  Therefore those people who USED to have bigoted positions and now no longer do are evidence of our success.  

          We are about social change, no?  Social change in a progressive direction. That means, by definition, we want to look for and celebrate said change when it occurs, not blame folks for starting in the wrong place (and rendering our efforts at social change superfluous).

          You seem to be missing a key part of the process here.

          ;-)

          Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

          by a gilas girl on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 01:28:37 PM PDT

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          •  I'm pointing out the double standard. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            a gilas girl

            Schweitzer says something mildly homophobic and gets taken to task for it.

             Hillary (and Obama) held a very bigoted position for YEARS, and for entirely political reasons, AND lied about it (as recently as a week ago in HRC's case), and not only is that OK but we aren't even allowed to question this.

            •  But again... (0+ / 0-)

              the double standard depends upon your definition, as I'm pointing out.  someone who's position has changed away from homophobia is not parallel to someone who is currently espousing homophobic sentiments.

              In the now, there's not a parallel and so there's not a double standard, unless you go out of your way to define it as such.

              Interpretation of data and observations will vary, of course.

              Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

              by a gilas girl on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 03:33:21 PM PDT

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              •  So in your opinion (0+ / 0-)

                when Schweitzer apologizes for saying what he said (which I'm sure is coming any minute now) the slate is wiped clean and all is forgotten?

                I'd tend to believe that Schweitzer might still be a little homophobic.  Just like I believe that the way HRC and Obama handled the gay marriage issue reflects very poorly on their characters, even if they eventually came around to (or were finally honest about IMO) their support of gay marriage.

                •  Not simply an apology (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ChuckChuckerson

                  if he has a change of heart and sees the truly offensive nature of what he's saying and how it is dipped in prejudice of multiple varieties, then yes, I might consider it.

                  I don't make any claims about anybody's character with regard to these issues.  I'm just pointing out positions and statements make in public.

                  Do I think that HRC and BHO were cowardly in their earlier public statements about gay marriage?  Yes.  But that's not the topic of this comment thread.  That said, however, they have changed their positions, which I will always see as progress.

                  I feel the same way about any number of issues and any number of politicians.  Biden and reproductive choice.

                  I believe that people can learn.  Just like I believe that positions evolve and politicians grow and age and improve (or decline).  Neither politics nor human beings are ever absolutely completed projects, change is an inevitable part of both.

                  I not only expect that, I celebrate it when it goes in the "right" (to my mind) direction.

                  Even things that look like they are staying the same rarely are. They may remain similar but in some way they've changed.  Take the contemporary forms of bigotry we are dealing with today.  They might look like old forms of racism, but they are somewhat different, if only for the times in which they now manifest themselves.  Times in which folks really should have learned something.  

                  Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                  by a gilas girl on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:40:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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