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  •  Spiraling out of control (none / 0)

    says it perfectly. It is just piling insanity on top of insanity. Tell me where we go from here? What's next? And how much of this can we (and they) take? Will we all just end up mano a mano strangling each other? Are we going to divide as a nation just like Vietnam again, screaming over dinner tables at night (if people actually eat dinner together anymore). It seems like the only thing missing is fathers throwing their sons out of the house because their hair was too long, and for those of you too young at that time, it was really happening on blocks all around America.

    Liberal Streetfighter: Left-wing served al dente.

    by wilfred on Tue May 11, 2004 at 09:24:37 PM PDT

    •  Same thing happened in Quebec (none / 0)

      Although it wasn't about long hair, it was about political views. The Quiet Revolution in Quebec (1960 to present) tore families apart and pitted Quebecers against one another - people that had lived side-by-side and inter-married for 100s of years. Although there were some ebbs along the way, political erruption was never very far from the surface and is brewing once again.

      I lived in Quebec for 30 yrs. and felt the undertow of political tension nearly all of my adult life. I was considered a 2nd class citizen because I was English - it didn't matter that I was flawlessly bilingual and had been all my life. I had English blood and an English name and that was enough for the diehards to relegate me to a 2nd class citizen.  This kind of discrimination was institutionalized in Quebec. For example ... the civil service which is Quebec's largest employer discriminates (to this day) against Anglophones.  While Anglophones make up 10-15% of the population, only 2% of Anglophones are employed in the whole sector.  

      The dangers of polarization like this are looming in the USA. It is not as blatant at the moment but it definately has the potential to arrive if Americans do not demand that their elected officials represent their constituents. The situation in the US is like a cancer and cancer can be beaten :).

      Pssst ... there are mad men in the White House.

      by banjon on Tue May 11, 2004 at 10:26:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tribalism (none / 1)

          One of the similarities (the differences are huge) with between Quebec the present situation in the US was the way dissent on the francophone side was suppressed.  Dissenters were branded as sell-outs ('vendus') and worse-- they were not 'true' quebecers; the psychological pressure on ordinary uneducated people to conform at least publicly was immense. The francophone press pretty much went along the with the underlying assumptions of the separatists even when they didn't support their policies.

        But what was most prominent and what is most like the Conservative movement in the Red areas of the US was the tribalism, a visceral 'us against them' that seems to have overridden all other considerations. The Quebecois tribalism came out of a common history, but it also expressed a deep sense of inferiority and insecurity thatis happily eroding.  Where does this sense of insecurity and inferiority come from in the United States?  I think if you examine the heartland of Redness, you see it is concentrated in small towns and rural areas that prosperity by-passed populated by persons who didn't lacked the educational and financial means to leave, or who self-selected to stay.  There is a good book on western South Dakota that discusses this phenomenon.  They have a deep and abiding resentment against the meritocracy that was the Clinton administration and all that it stood for.  If we are ever to get ourselves out of this existential mess, we have to find the root of that insecurity, which in effect has sponsored a home-grown tribalism.

        Knut

        by Knut Wicksell on Wed May 12, 2004 at 07:08:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  tribes (none / 0)

          This is a highly perceptive post, Knut.  American tribalism among the "non-advancers" of society.  This helps explain why many white poor support Republicans against their own economic interests, and especially why they support dunce-friendly leaders like Bush.

          It's not just social conservatism trumping their economic interests.  It's also, for some: "Rah Rah Tribe. I vote stupid."

          Now what I just wrote demeans some rural and poor white folk, so I want to caveat it by adding two thoughts:

          1. The characterization I made above only describes some rural or poor whites.  I'm not sure what percentage.
          2. There are positive aspects of tribalism too -- such as the generosity and support small town people are apt to give one another, and the tribes friendliness and solidarity among its own people.

          Civil society is our collective creation. It's an honorable source of growth, mutual satisfaction and fulfillment. It's yours and mine to nurture, or nix.

          by Civil Sibyl on Wed May 12, 2004 at 08:51:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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