Daily Kos

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  •  Huh? (none / 1)

    "So what does the Berg murder tell us? That the prison torture scandal led to the killing? Not even close..."

    No connection? That's a bit far fetched. Maybe they do not care about Iraqi prisoner torture, but what a stage it gave them. The torture stands on its own as a crime against humanity perhaps worse than the rush to war. It sure did as much to destroy the standing of the US as the war, if not more. And it was every bit as effective as a recruiting tool for AQ. Indeed, the torture by US troops was powerful enough to render the entire US military impotent and the US unable to "win" the war in Iraq. Why walk away from that?

    by schemp on Tue May 11, 2004 at 09:28:58 PM PDT

    •  I think kos' point (none / 0)

      is that Berg's killers would have done it regardless. The prison torture revenge thing is just something they're using to create a convenient storyline

      by dacarlton on Tue May 11, 2004 at 09:36:24 PM PDT

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      •  hard to swallow (none / 1)

        openly killing the innocent is bad press.  This is not like 9/11.  Nobody ever took credit for that.  The only way this works for Al-Qaida is if it fulfills a searching desire among the public.

        by Jeff Simpson on Tue May 11, 2004 at 09:41:25 PM PDT

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        •  yeah, on second thought (none / 1)

          what you suggest sounds a lot more reasonable. Though maybe the torture-revenge was the reason for videotaping his murder (and doing it in a particularly brutal manner). The murder itself they were certainly motivated to do anyway.

          by dacarlton on Tue May 11, 2004 at 09:47:29 PM PDT

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        •  Unfortunately, (none / 0)

          it works for Bush.  The decapitation incident is enough to turn thousands of undecideds toward Bush because there is a tendency to believe that he will be "tough on terrorists".  Never mind that we haven't really caught any, except the Hussein family.... people just think that way.  I wonder if the perpetrators of this crime thought about that before they murdered Nick Berg..... they may have just assured another 4 years of Bush, and maybe that's exactly what they want. Who knows with these people?

          I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. Will Rogers.

          by tomathawl on Wed May 12, 2004 at 08:28:17 AM PDT

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    •  Right (none / 1)

      This is all about propaganda. It's highly significant that they had held on to this guy for some time, but chose to kill him in this highly theatrical fashion when the abuse/torture scandal was full blown.

      Another angle: Do we even know how many Americans, not to mention Westerners, are held hostage now? Remember the way the Iranians taking the US Tehran embassy staff hostage had completely paralized the Carter administration? BushCo wasn't going to repeat that mistake. They just ignore or downplay any hostages in Iraq. So decapitation is one of the few ways that Iraqis have available to point out that they are holding Americans captive.

      Dose BushCo even bother to determine what Americans are being held hostage by Iraqis? Not that I am aware of. It's bad P.R.

      by Alexander on Tue May 11, 2004 at 11:24:27 PM PDT

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    •  The fire has been burning (none / 0)

      like a barbeque quieting down to hot coals

      this was like lighter fluid added and
      it burst into flames

      What gets me is all these scandals and BS and
      we are still polarized, 50-50 with BUSH?
      Thomas Frank had a good article in Harpers recently about the rethugs base and how they get their base to vote for them even when it is against their own interest.
      Im off on an open thread tangent........

      "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you suck seed."--Curly Howard

      by JackAshe on Wed May 12, 2004 at 06:01:24 AM PDT

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    •  propaganda tool for AQ (none / 0)

      this, to my mind, is the major reason behind this video.  yes, it shocks the American public but, better for AQ, it instructs impressionable young fanatics over there that this is the proper response to the atrocities visited upon their people.

      by haglera on Wed May 12, 2004 at 07:30:07 AM PDT

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    •  Remember Fabrizio Quattrocchi (none / 0)

      the Italian security guard who was taken hostage virtually at the same time as Berg and was shot in the back of the head/neck after being forced to dig his own grave and after reportedly defying his captors by saying, "Now I'll show you how an Italian dies."

      I raise it as an open question about the similarities and differences between Berg's murder and Quattrocchi's, which was also videotaped and was not run by Al-Jazeera because it was too horrific.

      For example, it might be worth noting that the Quattrochi killing was assertedly prompted by PM Berlusconi's remarks refusing to withdraw troops from Iraq.  As confirmed by the demands with respect to Berg, it seems that the hostage-takers are paying attention to news cycles in the West and then tailoring the demands and timing the murders to generate attention more than anything else.  And generating attention I think serves two purposes.  One is as a recruiting tool (as posters below have mentioned).  The other is perhaps to prompt a violent and irresponsible reaction by the US.  Which of course, become a terrorist recruiting tool ...    

      Another question: the Guardian article noted that the "Green Brigade" took the Italians hostage, but said no one had heard from that group before.  I wonder if anyone knows more about that group and, if it's connected to Zarqawi.  Maybe the Italian killing by an unkwown "brigade" was a test run for a more publicized, gruesome, and emotionally twisted murder of an American.  

      "Supposing truth is a woman -- what then?" -- Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

      by phaedrus on Wed May 12, 2004 at 11:44:02 AM PDT

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