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View Diary: All About NSA's and AT&T's Big Brother Machine, the Narus 6400 (38 comments)

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  •  An ear for the mafia and foreign gvmts as well (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snakelass, keefer55, ipsos

    Anytime you set up a system that can remotely tap or record conversations like this it is open to abuse by third parties.  Period.

    Don't believe any guarantees you get about how well it is secured.  Any hacker worth their salt can tell you that so long as there are bugs is software and hardware, or human beings to be social engineered (or just plain bribed), a system can be compromised.  You think the UK or Israeli services don't already have access to these taps, whether our government knows or not?  

    And once one party has figured out a way in, how quickly do you think that access and data makes its way elsewhere?

    Look at all the problems in California at the moment with a certain alleged wiretapper and his alleged police helpers.  Now imagine that sort of corruption nationwide.  Automated.

    Then think about all the times you risk your friendships, career, etc. by things you "trust" to phone and email conversations.  

    Surfing the web at work?  Oops, someone mailed some logs to your boss.  God forbid you saw something NSFW.

    Corporate secrets?  Cha-ching.  Thanks!  And oh, they can get you fired with those too.

    And your relationship?  God help you if you have done some searches, sent some emails, whatever, that would jeoporadize your marriage, commitment, or even just a friendship.

    There's a damn good reason why an executive branch needs oversight.

    •  My husband works for Oracle (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snakelass, jiml, 8ackgr0und N015e
      think Amazon and the Paris Bourse, which run on this software. Cross it with Larry Ellison (CEO Oracle) saying, "The privacy you are so fond of is mostly an illusion." and Scott Mc Nealy (Sun Micro Systems (hardware)) saying, "You have no privacy. Get over it.", and one begins to see the problem.

      I was a witness in a COINTELPRO case. That was about systematic physical searches executed without warrents by either the Federal Government OR by third parties looking to sell the 'evidence' to the Feds. The third parties did not get paid unless the evidence was 'solid'. So in many cases (more than 1700) the evidence was falsified. Electronic 'data evidence' can be falsified much more easily than physical evidence. I can say this because I used to make computers lie for a living: at that time I was a naif, proud of my newly aquired computer skills.

      Datamining is the next frontier in the legal field of checks and balances: not much has been done to protect the average citizen from 3rd party searches, let alone the Feds. We need to have a stance on this newer application of data mining, and a program in hand for when the Dems come into power.

      What the President says is executive privilege is nothing but executive poppycock. -Sam Ervin

      by sailmaker on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:30:48 PM PDT

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      •  You have hit the most dangerous point on the head (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marjo, barbwires

        Most of us will waffle and say "well I don't care if they watch me posting...it was public anyway."  Or "I don't give a shit if they see my porn viewing....my wife enjoys it too."

        But the falsification part... now THAT is news.  Imagine the "paper trail" that PROVES you have been salting away tens of thousands of dollars a year in some tax dodge...you never heard of.  Or the trail of email that PROVES you are a pedophile, even though you never heard of IM.

        Basically, it would be the digital equivalent of planting a gun.  

        I know several people who were targets of COINTELPRO. One of them was a precedent setting case at the Federal level.  The FBI agents Reagan pardoned when he came into office where the result of that case.  While they did wild stupid stuff, no one ever alleged PLANTING of info.  Mind you, I am well aware of prosecutorial misconduct and believe it is possible.. my question is this:

        Can you provide links to reliable, verifiable, independent, publically available information that would provide insight into your anecdotal claim about people getting paid to provide information for COINTELPRO.  I ask because in all the years I have known about that, I have never heard that aspect.

        Thanks for an eye opening comment.  Almost as jolting as coffee.

        First they came for the hackers. But I never did anything illegal with my computer, so I didn't speak up.

        Then they came for the pornographers. But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway, so I didn't speak up.

        Then they came for the anonymous remailers. But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi, so I didn't speak up.

        Then they came for the encryption users. But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway, so I didn't speak up.

        Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

        -- Alara Rogers, Aleph Press

        Mything the Point ©:
        "Examining unexamined beliefs America accepts on faith value"

        by 8ackgr0und N015e on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 05:47:00 AM PDT

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        •  The FBI paid $26 million between 1957-1971 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt
          for information. They placed miss-information in newspapers (using or buying journalists), tried to get more than one black activist killed by calling him a 'pig informer', the list goes on and on.

          The stuff that was tried is barely believable today (tried to get Martin Luther King to commit suicide?!!),(knew a bus full of civil rights workers would get attacked by the KKK because they set up the hit and agreed to wait 20 minutes before the local police would be informed), yet it all happened. Check the COINTELPRO papers(I couldn't find a copy of the Church Committee report.)

          In the case to which I was a witness, a third party acknowledged that he was selling the government information.  This third party got a petty criminal to plant fake documents (that said violence was appropriate) in the Socialist Worker's Party office in SF, where later there was an attempted breakin and vandalism.

          There are people out there who think that these tactics are still in use, Judi Bari of Earth First! with the near $5 million dollar settlement, is one. I hope these tactics are not currently in play, however the potential for abuse in an unwarrented, unsupervised, and unaccoutable atmosphere, makes me fear the worst.

          What the President says is executive privilege is nothing but executive poppycock. -Sam Ervin

          by sailmaker on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 06:23:28 PM PDT

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          •  Oh don't worry I believe it. (0+ / 0-)

            Remember that incident where the Klan beat the crap out of the Freedom Riders in Birmingham? Well, I knew Jim Peck  title=.

            I would not put anything past these people.  I was just surprised to learn they had paid for the information.  I figured they had enough Brown Shirts they got it for free. Thanks for the references.

            Mything the Point ©:
            "Examining unexamined beliefs America accepts on faith value"

            by 8ackgr0und N015e on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 07:19:04 AM PDT

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    •  It's easy to see the misuse of this. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snakelass, Data Pimp, ipsos

      All the really egregious violations of civil liberties are obvious in this, as are the evil purposes to which it might be put.
      But you know, it's a lot harder to see how this could be used for any legitimate purpose, such as foiling a terrorist attack or catching a non-cyber type criminal.

      We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. Aesop (620 - 560 BC)

      by AWhitneyBrown on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:53:07 AM PDT

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