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  •  General Theory of Relativity (4.00 / 4)

    What are ways to falsify this? Theories are rarely presented with how they can be falsified. When a theory is presented, it is presented in the positive, meaning it states what it is trying to prove. It is not stated with all the ways to disprove it which could be infinite.

    "He knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know. In this latter particular, I seem to have a slight advantage" - Socrates

    by benb on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 11:25:19 PM PDT

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    •  Einstein's theories... (3.12 / 8)

      are notorious for offering risky predictions (and are thus extraordinary examples of scientific theory). In terms of relativity, one would expect that subatomic particles would increase in mass as they approach the speed of light. This is a risky prediction, because it is clear how to test it and it represents an unexpected observation per (then) conventional theory. We have observed in accelerators that indeed particle masses do increase. This corroborates the theory. So in this case we can imagine a test wherein a given observational result would have refuted the theory.

      Similarly, we have the eclipse experiment of 1919. If Einstein's theory of gravitation were bogus, star positions as recorded during the eclipse would be spatially equivalent to their positions recorded prior to the eclipse. But according to Einstein's theory, the mass of our sun would be sufficient to "bend" the light of distant stars as it passed the sun. This theory by its nature gives rise to such a risky prediction. It is therefore attributed as a scientific theory. The severity of the test one can devise for a theory defines its scientific nature.

      Time lost is always a disadvantage that is bound in some way to weaken him who loses it. -Clausewitz

      by Malachite on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 11:49:07 PM PDT

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      •  not relevant to the discussion (none / 0)

        And besides, the fossil record is how one tests evolutionary theory.

        In God we trust. All others must pay cash.

        by yet another liberal on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 09:30:15 AM PDT

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        •  sheesh! (4.00 / 2)

          Fossils?!!  Don't you know that "fossils" are actually the remains of space creatures preserved for all time by the extraterrestrial "intelligent designer" (named Gawd, btw)? They prove evolutionary changes about as much as the Grand Canyon "proves" geologic changes.

          </snark>

          It's still upsetting for some people to know that the hippies were the ones telling the truth about Vietnam and trying to help America. - Anonymous

          by eunichorn on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 11:41:22 AM PDT

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      •  Common Descent (none / 0)

        Common Descent

        I understand that Relativity has experiments that prove it. But they are evidence of the theory, not the theory itself. Just as evolution is a theory and need not articulate its evidence when described. However, it can be articulated when we have a debate. My side of the debate is presented here.

        "He knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know. In this latter particular, I seem to have a slight advantage" - Socrates

        by benb on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 02:06:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Biochemistry (none / 0)

        The analysis of proteins (particularly enzymes), DNA and RNA have provided extremely powerful confirmation of the fosil record.

        Base (building block) sequences change from species to species in the same protein or gene sequences.  The change in a particular protein or nucleic acid is a measure of the divergence of those species.  The fosil record also shows the divergence of species.

        Comparing the evolutionary trees generated from fosil evidence with the tree results gathered from the biochemical analysis of existing species yields compatible results that confirm the correctness of the fosil evidence.

        The same results from two very different techniques. When both biochemistry and the fosil record provide the same results for the divergence of existing species, then the need for falsifiablity is satisfied as is the requirement for prediction.

        cheers

    •  Science education is weak in this area I think... (none / 0)

      Science education needs to do a better job explaining some things. As another poster points out, there is no such thing as a fact in science, that is, nothing you can be sure of. You can think of anything in science as a proposition and a probability that it's true or false.

      For example, is George Bush the president of the US? (Notwithstanding stolen elections, etc). The probability of this being true is very close to 100%, and the probability of it being false is close to 0%. But, it is never zero. There is a non-zero probability that any arbitrary crazy-ass thing you can think of is true.

      The problem, though, is that the above is no way to run a thinking mind in the real world from day to day. You have to make real binary decisions about whether to do something or not do something, and you can't be constantly confused by doubting reality, so most of these probabilities from an epistemological standpoint can just be rounded off to a 0 or a 1 so you can get some actual work done.

      Evolution is both a fact and a theory. From a fact perspective, evolution as an explanation for life has a probability so close to 100% that the remainder can just be discarded. From a theory perspective, evolution has tremendous predictive power.

      In any case, I think the epistemological underpinnings of science are something that most people don't understand, and the idea that nothing is certain in science can be frightening and confusing (and misleading if used for devious purposes as the IDers do).

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