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  •  I knew this was coming! (none / 0)

    I saw him on Stephanopoulos 2 weeks ago and he was a non-commital asshole like most of the  Democrats in the Senate.  I forgot who he was agreeing with or what the subject but you could tell something changed and that he sounded like he was running for something.  He'll pull an Obama.  Too bad he couldn't vote for Condeleezza Rice too.

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

    by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 08:59:04 AM PDT

    •  Borderline (3.00 / 2)

      I know you probably didn't intend it as such but your comments border on offensive. Please be more careful about how you say things in a racial context.

      by BrianVA on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:02:54 AM PDT

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      •  how? (none / 0)

        How is that racially offensive? I'd rather not make the same "mistake"...so please tell me specifically what was racially offensive about the comment.

        Now I'm not one for torture, but this rendition is extraordinary.

        by kbse matt on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:05:01 AM PDT

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        •  well (none / 0)

          Why only compare black politicians to black politicians?

          Join Me at Netroots Nation: The Next President and the Law

          by Adam B on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:06:38 AM PDT

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          •  not so.. (none / 0)

            The comment didn't "only" compare Mfume to Obama. It started out saying that he seemed like all the other non-committal Senate Democrats. Earlier on the thread, others were lumping the two together.

            I don't appreciate accusations of racism, even borderline warnings, when there is no direct evidence. I think racism is a very important issue that gets diluted when people overreact to statements like the original comment.

            Now I'm not one for torture, but this rendition is extraordinary.

            by kbse matt on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:13:46 AM PDT

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            •  I understand (none / 0)

              your point. That is why I was careful not to shout "racism" because I know that it wasn't intended that way but I think progressive people have to be models of sensitivity and when someone makes a snide comment about a black candidate for Senate joining the only other black Senator to vote for a black Secretary of State it doesn't look good. I'm sorry I'm too PC but I think it's worth annoying a few folks to express the greatest sensitivity possible.

              by BrianVA on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:24:17 AM PDT

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      •  Of Course I didn't mean it to be offensive (none / 0)

        but something happens to people when they get to or they run for the Senate.  What other reason could have Obama had for voting for Rice's confirmation other than the fact that she's an African American women?  Harold Ford, an African American congressman from Tennessee said he was disappointed with his fellow Democrats for the way they attacked Rice.

        Are they both, he and Obama out of their f___ minds?  What reasons could they have had for supporting this lying incompetent Bush ass kisser?  Maybe what THEY did was racist.  I'm Jewish and hate can't stand Lieberman or Feinstein.  The site of them makes me nauseous.  I have no respect anymore for Obama, Ford or Salazar.  They are not the kinds of Democrats I want.  So, they are either stupid or they are racist for voting to confirm because she is African American and neither is what the Senate Democrats need.  They are in bad enough shape without that kind of stupidity and arrogance.  If Mfume will follow in their footsteps, his announcement does nothing for me.  The only reason I brought it up was because of his answers on ABC's "This Week."

        We have to be a lot more discriminating in our selections and make Democrats pay dearly who go against what we are trying to do, regardless of their color or their religion.  I am very disappointed in my Jewish friends and family who were so quick to become Republicans because they thought Bush was good for Israel and the economy.  We have to call it like it is.  I am not upset with Obama and Ford because they are African American, I am upset with how quickly they sold out.  

        "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

        by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:34:45 AM PDT

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        •  Woah. (none / 1)

          How did you come to the assumption that Obama voted for Rice because she was black? Did the other 84 senators vote for her because she was black? Or just black Obama? My advice: quit while you're ahead.

          by BrianVA on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:38:32 AM PDT

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          •  Because I expected that he knew how awful she was (none / 0)

            and that he didn't have time to be tainted by being in the Senate for years.  I didn't see him as a camera grabber like Biden or a traitor like Lieberman.  I thought he was smarter and as I said less tainted.

            As far as the rest of the Democrats, I think they were spineless assholes for voting to confirm.  Being Jewish, if I can be pissed off at Lieberman and Feinstein for closing their eyes and sticking with the Republicans too often because of Israel, why can't I be pissed off at Obama.  Like I said, I assumed he was less tainted being new.

            Why do you think he voted to confirm Rice?

            Also, why would Harold Ford be so pissed off at the Senators who gave Rice a hard time?  Isn't he smart enough to realize why she never should have been confirmed?

            "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

            by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:48:30 AM PDT

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            •  To answer your question (none / 0)

              for anyone actually paying attention to the process it was clear that many Senators like Barack Obama and Russ Feingold feel that a president deserves broad discretion in the selection of their cabinet.

              by BrianVA on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 10:00:29 AM PDT

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              •  Well, (none / 1)

                The Bush/Rice team was a national security risk in the first term.  Together they lied, deceived and didn't take the tiniest step to protect this country when they were told that Obama planned to attack here.  If I am not mistaken, those are the kinds of situations when we need an national Security Advisor.  I wonder if Obama understands that?

                Then Rice, flat out lied to the American public to cover up her inadequacies.  Then she lied about Iraq and then she lied to the 9/11 Commission.  What kind of Senator would allow a piece of trash like this to represent our country all over the world?  And so far look at what she has done.  She's being Bush's whore again by trying to deceive everyone about confirming a would be UN Ambassador John Bolton, a man who wants to remove the top ten floors and have the US as the only permanent member of the Security Council.  We're back to Old Europe again.  

                So like what are the Democrats supposed to be doing?  Wouldn't that nomination have been a good time to put the Bush Administration in a boiling cauldron?  So, what they did instead, is pull a John Kerry, the wimped out (I know Kerry voted not to confirm but he knows how pissed we are at him...he's useless!!!!).  By confirming Rice, they are confirming, in the minds of the American people, that she and Bush did a great job or why else would they confirm her.

                Obama didn't have the baggage of being a 6 term Senator and he could have made his statement.  If he really thought that a president could even appoint the most incompetent boob, who happens to be a serial liar, then I have no use for him as I have no use for anyone who voted for Rice's confirmation.  When are we going to get angry, selective and punish those Democrats who live in their own dream world?  We have that right you know.  As I have said before, for this confirmation of Rice to be Obama's introduction to the Senate, all the hopes for him, at least mine, are gone.

                "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

                by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 11:04:21 AM PDT

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                •  Don't like living in a representative democracy? (none / 0)

                  The executive branch has certain authority and some Senators interpret that division of power as a very dark line. I generally tend to agree with them. It's disgusting that Condi is Secretary of State but it's even more disgusting that George Bush is president. The people voted for him and now he gets to pick the people that execute his policies.

                  by BrianVA on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 11:23:52 AM PDT

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                  •  Then what is the purpose of the Senate? (none / 1)

                    Didn't the people who elected Clinton, expect him to govern without interruption unless he committed high crimes and misdemeanors against the United States.  However, didn't the Republicans go beyond their authority in the impeachment trial?

                    I am sick and tired of one set of rules with no boundariess for the Republicans and different rules that have to follow strict interpretation for the Democrats.  As far as I am concerned, Condoleezza Rice committed a lot more high crimes and misdemeanors against the US than Clinton did.

                    There is an Advise and Consent function that the Senate must perform.  I think Rice was unfit for the job.  Just because her boss is unfit for any job other than dog catcher, that should not obsolve the entire executive branch.  Rejecting that lying incompetent would be without malice as it could have easliy been proven she was unfit.

                    Given what the Republicans CS did to Clinton, Obama and the rest of those jerks, a law professor and many lawyers, couldn't figure this out?  I wonder how many votes she would have gotten if she were white and lied the same way she lied, and wouldn't answer questions of the 9/11 committee after appearing on all the Sunday news talk shows and missed just about everything that had to do with national security, as she so clearly missed?  I bet Obama and a lot of those assholes in the Senate would have rejected her.  This has noting to do with my bias because I have absolutely no bias.  It has to do with the stupidity of the Democratic Senators and maybe in Obama's case, because he wasn't there for Clinton and this was his first vote, maybe it had to do with color.  Either way, I've lost a lot of repsect for Obama, the same kind of loss of respect that happened with Liberman, Biden, Feinstein, Clinton, Schumer....need I go on?

                    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

                    by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 02:32:08 PM PDT

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        •  As a matter of fact, (none / 0)

          Up until that vote I loved Obama and like many others saw him a presidential material.  Up until that appearance on "This Week" I loved Mfume.  I always liked Harold Ford but he's pissed me off a little too often, as does anyone who is an Imus regular.

          "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

          by cpa1 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:38:49 AM PDT

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        •  what other reason? (none / 1)

          What other reason could have Obama had for voting for Rice's confirmation other than the fact that she's an African American women?

          Because he believes in largely deferring to the President in filling his cabinet, as did 32 other Democrats?

          Join Me at Netroots Nation: The Next President and the Law

          by Adam B on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 09:41:46 AM PDT

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        •  Just as I thought (none / 0)

          the far left would turn against Obama once he deviated from their agenda just one bit.

          by jiacinto on Mon Mar 14, 2005 at 05:54:08 PM PDT

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          •  For me and maybe others (none / 0)

            This first visible vote by Obama is a disgrace and if he's going to be the same kind of schmuck the rest of the Democrats are, who needs him.  Maybe she befriended him as a fellow African American and if that makes him blind to all the things she did, he's a schmuck too...hey I don't care...he caved big time and I don't want to have to put up with.  As far as I am concerned, somethings are worth standing up for.  If the Republicans could put Clinton on trial, why was it wrong to reject Rice?

            "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

            by cpa1 on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 06:58:14 AM PDT

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