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View Diary: Romney's Latest War Effort (300 comments)

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  •  Nah, the plan was to ignore them. (0+ / 0-)

    Now the reality is that they can't. Howard Dean can't back down, do he's asking that the states back down and do a mulligan.

    Problem is, the states will be out the money on a new election. If they do a caucus, there will be a pro-Obama accusation as he does better in caucuses. But if they do another primary, it is likely to favor Clinton.

    The states really cannot win in this situation. Dean won't back down, the states can't afford another election, and either form of election will favor a candidate more than the other. If they don't, Dean will continue his schoolyard hissyfit of "He cutted in line!"

    "Without alienation, there can be no politics" ~ Arthur Miller

    by jwalker13 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:27:18 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, not to mention the Hawthorn effect. nt (0+ / 0-)

      "Without alienation, there can be no politics" ~ Arthur Miller

      by jwalker13 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:28:19 PM PST

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    •  OK, so I understand the funding problem/issue... (0+ / 0-)

      but what I don't understand is where the pressure is coming from. I guess the states committees are pressuring the DNC to accept their votes?

      It seems patently unfair to me, living in Connecticut, where we have not violated party rules by moving our primary up, to not require Michigan and Florida to follow the rules (and suffer the agreed upon consequences). And if in the end, the delegates are chosen and seated in any way, shape or form, then other states will see that there weren't any actual consequences, and will seriously consider doing what Michigan and Florida did (who knows, I might make that argument in Connecticut--I would like to have our primaries mean more than they usually do).

      ~Doc~

      I'm not voting for Barack Obama because he's black. I'm voting for Barack Obama because he's brilliant. --Oprah Winfrey

      by EquationDoc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:46:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, the pressure is from people. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        InternetJunkie

        Believe it or not, this issue isn't entire a popular move. Especially against two important states like Florida and Michigan. Florida alone had a million and change people vote.

        It really is a difficult issue, I don't dispute that, but here's my own personal argument about this -- this is America. Though Dean has every right to control his party, it really shouldn't be his or anyone else's decision to take delegates or votes. This is something I believed well before Clinton won either state.

        The problem is that we have these special contests at all. We have states that go alone simply because, as Howard Dean said, he wants them to feel special. He wants them to forecast the election. The problem is that this biases the election more times than not. You begin to see a bandwagon effect as everyone says "This state supported x, I have to too!"

        What Mr. Dean should have done instead of fanning these flames, was better plan to allow states to run together and in alternation. Instead of dropping in whichever state he wants to be special, he should have had some sort of lottery. Have a preponderance of randomness in your selection.

        I think Florida and Michigan did like every other state. They wanted to be special too.

        At this juncture, I just think the best choice is to punish them by losing some delegates, but not all. Then, reform how you run these states and assure all 50 that your selection is completely random. Forget these special races where one state goes.

        The short version? It's incredibly difficult, and I think that Howard Dean bumbled this one massively.

        "Without alienation, there can be no politics" ~ Arthur Miller

        by jwalker13 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:56:48 PM PST

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        •  Thanks for the detailed explanation...and... (0+ / 0-)

          I now understand. You have convinced me something probably ought to be done to resolve it. I would argue, though, that if there is a re-vote or caucus, candidates should be given a chance to campaign there beforehand. The existing votes were more early name recognition popularity contests than anything, since nobody campaigned there, and obviously those favored HC. However, I'd be arguing the same thing if BO had won both. Fair is fair.

          I also think the primary schedule should be determined by drawing state names from a hat (or something similar). It pisses me off that Iowa sets the tone, and, in the case of 2004, pretty much decides it much of the time. Living in CT, I'd like to be able to contribute at least once in a while...

          However, in the absence of that, there needs to be SOME kind of negative feedback for states that move their primaries up, else states will keep hopping to the front of the line, and soon the primaries will be starting the day after the president is sworn in.

          ~Doc~

          I'm not voting for Barack Obama because he's black. I'm voting for Barack Obama because he's brilliant. --Oprah Winfrey

          by EquationDoc on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:25:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Voter Rebellion (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mom to Miss M

          Absolutely.  Every Dem should put themselves in the shoes of Florida and Michigan voters.  Their party chairs, with their desire to be the state that chose the front runner(s), sold out the voters with their arrogance.  And the voters don't elect these idiots so there is no retribution.  

          Personally, I'd be calling the county and state committee's offices everyday to personally thank them for finding the most efficient way of stripping me of my voice and my vote.  

          In the end, the DNC is going to have to find a way to give them their votes back.  If not the first round of voting then definitely the second.

    •  Protests from Michigan and Florida (0+ / 0-)

      at the Convention.

      The states can't afford another election or a caucus.  These are not caucus states and the confusion that would ensue would be great.

      Can't wait until Denver.

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