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View Diary: MN-Sen Events v. 39.1, Desperate Norm Thread (190 comments)

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  •  Franken needs to be in DC on Monday morning (20+ / 0-)

    And he needs to be ready to get sworn in.  Let the legal wrangling go on, but Al should take his seat in the Senate.

    •  He can be sworn in anywhere (11+ / 0-)

      As I recall, Biden was first sworn in as Senator in his sons' hospital room in Delaware.

      •  And I was sworn in at the harmony Inn (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        filby, jonwilliamsl

        somewhere between the 5th and 6th beer...or at least that's what I remember.  That was before I the bartender married me to the hooker...at least I am told that.

        seriously though, I'd prefer they wait until it's certified.  It's only going to be a day or two after  before they certify and I'd sure like to NOT be hearing about Dems having a coup d'etat and selecting the Senate without elections for the next 120 years.

        "you have the right to your own opinion. You do not have the right to your own facts" -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

        by SteveP on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 08:52:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The only way that's NOT going... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomFromNJ, SteveP

          to happen is if Normy and the Rethugs get their way. Otherwise, it will be "those double counting, double crossing MN libruls stole the election." My response to the wingnuts: eat my shorts! Elections have consequences and having a Democrat managing the recount has at least made the process transparent, no matter how you would like to spin it!

          •  He'll be certified (0+ / 0-)

            It'll be early next week or the following week.  But he'll be certified.  That won;t be the end of the legal challenges however.

            The MN Supreme Court was pretty clear that other than the absentee issue, it would have to be contested in court after the certification. There's one thing that is a  7 day process and the rest would be an utter fishing expedition which could go on forever. But Al will be certified and seated.

            "you have the right to your own opinion. You do not have the right to your own facts" -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

            by SteveP on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 10:50:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Franken can't be sworn in yet (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, Eloise, Red Sox, AKMask

      He hasn't yet been certified the winner, and won't be until the absentee ballot issue is at least initially decided.

      This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

      by GreenSooner on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 06:11:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  As I understand it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AKMask

        the US Senate can seat whom they choose, certification or not, on Jan.6, that there's historic precedent for this, and that precedent also dictates that they seat the person who's leading on Jan.6 in these cases.

        If I'm wrong, and I may well be, please let me know.

        The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

        by sidnora on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 09:30:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Incorrect (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sidnora

          They have to be certified. The senate can't even reject a senator whose been certified, they have to seat them and then expel them with a 2/3's vote. A scandal-plagued lawmaker in the late 60's/early 70's who won re-election twice while selling his votes on legislation resulted in a Supreme Court precedent on this after a crafty little plan that involved not seating him got sued into oblivion.

          The crux is that the qualifications for being elected a senator are in the constitution, the senate is required to follow those, and seat the person. Before they're seated, they aren't members yet, so the senate has no right to judge them for anything other then fulfilling the requirements. Once they're seated as members, then the more flexible rules come into play and the senate can expel them for just about anything, but it takes a 2/3's vote.

          •  Thanks. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AKMask

            Though there's nothing I could find in the Constitution regarding a requirement of certification, and Franken obviously meets all other qualifications.

            The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

            by sidnora on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 02:33:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sidnora

              Amendment XVII

              (Ratified April 8, 1913)

              The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

              When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

              This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.

              The bolded part is the important one, although the second is what allows Blago to appoint in the other senate news of late. 'Elected by the people thereof' means a complete election, certified by the secretary of state for that state. Before this amendment was passed, senators were generally chosen by legislatures, not elections.

              •  I read that section closely (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                maryru, AKMask

                And spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what "elected by the people thereof" meant. The Constitution, and even the Amendments are such models of elegant brevity that details (like certification) are not necessarily obvious to people like me, who are not constitutional scholars.

                Thanks again. Every day I learn something is a good day.

                The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

                by sidnora on Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 03:41:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  'Elegant brevity'... I like that. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sidnora

                  But it wasn't intentional, its because the federal government can't really tell states how to elect people. It doesn't even tell states how to elect presidents, for a long time legislatures gave out the electoral college votes as well.

                  'Elected by the people thereof' means however a state wants to do the election, and as a de facto meaning, that means a certified election. Not because its explicit, but because that power is delegated to the states, and in either state constitutions or the laws of the state, they all require certification. All 50 of them.

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