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View Diary: In the Washington Times: a call to investigate, possibly to prosecute (271 comments)

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  •  Intellectual Integrity is NOT your strongpoint (1+ / 0-)
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    Mas Gaviota

    And yet you discount my most important points.  Weak.  You are so completely focused on the possible economic benefits of fighting in Vietnam that you completely ignore that the threat of the Soviet Union was real.  

    You see 'the commie menace'--which never really existed in any substantial form,

    Take a little time out of hating the US to look at what was really going on.  You have this prism that you look back in time with where you discount EVERY possible defensive reason for going to Vietnam and emphasis every possible economic reason.  It is disingenuous or LYING.

    The Soviet Union did take over the Eastern Block countries.  The Soviet Union really did blockade Berlin forcing the Berlin Airlift.  Kruschev really did bang his shoe on a table yelling "We will bury you".  The Cuban Missile Crisis really did happen.  The Korean War really did happen.  These are not figments of my imagination even though you write all of this off as the "commie bugaboo". As I started out, intellectual integrity is NOT your strongpoint.

    •  You offer nothing of substance about my primary.. (0+ / 0-)

      ...points, you accuse me of things which are calumny, since I am an insufferable patriot, and you offer nothing except your assertions about Southeast Asia and then use a few hackneyed examples of 'evil Stalinists' to attack me.  Of course, the 'evil Stalinists' involved much more complicated issues than you acknowledge, and they, in any event are completely divorced from Southeast Asia.  

      The Berlin blockade justified slaughtering a million IndoChinese, and somehow, magically, caused us to plan imperial domination of the region two decades before it happened.

      In short you are presumptuous, your arguments consist of non-sequiturs and red-herrings, and, apparently, you have no interest in learning anything about your ignorance.  On the other hand, I revel in learning, so I thank you for your correction below, which supports my POV anyhow, and I can use all of the continued conversation that you present, since it merely sharpens my points to anyone who is objective, as opposed to a nationalistic, anti-communist, imperialist, which pretty much precludes anything akin to objectivity, more's the pity.

      I bow to those who seek the truth; I flee from those who have 'found' it.

      by SERMCAP on Thu Jan 22, 2009 at 06:51:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Simply pointing out that there are two (1+ / 0-)
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        Mas Gaviota

        sides to the story.  You come across like one of the people that thinks that the Gazans have no reason whatsoever to fight the Israelis which then leads to the obvious conclusion that the Gazans are simply evil.  

        The Stalinists / Soviet Union were for the most part divorced from Southeast Asia.  I would contend that there were Russian advisers there.  The Vietnamese were certainly using Russian arms even if the supply came through China. In hindsight, you can say that Vietnam wasn't a threat to Southeast Asian stability, but at the time, that may not have been obvious.  You also have no idea what the effect on the regimes in Southeast Asia would have been if we hadn't been involved.  You can speculate all you want, but we do know what happened.  If we had done nothing, would Thailand and Malaysia have become communist (against their will I might add)?  You don't know.

        •  Projection is the most primitive form... (0+ / 0-)

          ...of coping strategy.  So that must be why you say this:

            You come across like one of the people that thinks that the Gazans have no reason whatsoever to fight the Israelis which then leads to the obvious conclusion that the Gazans are simply evil.

          You're describing yourself here.  Set this all aside, whenever you're finished trying to squirm your way out of the hole you keep digging deeper.  Then, after a month or two, go back and reread it.  My guess is, with your obvious intelligence, you'll be able to see that you were looking in the mirror when you wrote those lines.  They're sure as shit not about me.

          The presence or absence of the Russians in Southeast Asia has nothing to do with my argument, except inasmuch as it supports the fact of the imperial nature of the venture, by both France and the U.S., long before the Cold War was official, and continuing afterwards, primarily guided and financed, and ultimately fought, by the USA.

          We were the "threat to S.E. Asia's stability."  The murder of millions at our hands and with our weapons at the hands of others, the rise of Pol Pot, a generation of murder and mayhem in the behest of empire, those are not the responsibility of any Stalinist or Russian anywhere.  These evil and self-serving results, about which you continue to advance self-righteous notions of justification, were the responsibility of U.S., and to an extent French and other European, policy makers and leaders.

          I bow to those who seek the truth; I flee from those who have 'found' it.

          by SERMCAP on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:31:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not the guy (0+ / 0-)

            that looks at 184,000 dead South Vietnamese soldiers and sees that as proof of US imperialism!

            The murder of millions at our hands and with our weapons at the hands of others, the rise of Pol Pot, a generation of murder and mayhem in the behest of empire, those are not the responsibility of any Stalinist or Russian anywhere.  These evil and self-serving results

            Stop.  You again look with hindsight and decide that this was a foregone conclusion going into things as though it was the plan.  Sure our involvement in Vietnam didn't turn out well but that is the nature of wars.  Some go well some don't.  I guess not everyone is omnipotent and knows the results going in.  

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