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View Diary: Rumsfeld's Revenge: Army Field Manual to Allow Torture (217 comments)

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  •  I have reason to believe (17+ / 0-)

    that at least one staffer in Obama's NSC is aware of all the issues. However, they also have the opinion that the techniques are too vague to be considered really abusive. Speaking of vagueness, there is some intent to look at the interrogations issue closely, and in fact there is Obama's review as laid out in his recent Executive Order on interrogations.

    If this issue is not out there in the public discourse, however, while the CIA and others are pushing loudly through their press outlets that the AFM is actually "too soft," then no matter what the insiders may "know", the AFM will not be changed in the direction of humane interrogation techniques. The best to hoped for is that it stays the same.

    In CIA-style politics, this is known as misdirection. Example: the AFM coddles terrorists. The center (Obama), hearing little from any other side, settles for the status quo (which is what Congress, through Feinstein's new bill) is pushing. Either way, Appendix M stays, and the nucleus of MKULTRA-derived coercive interrogation remains in place, courtesy of Donald Rumsfeld and Stephen Cambone, and the ignorance or silence of many who knew better, but kept silent.

    War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

    by Valtin on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 02:37:12 PM PST

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    •  If this happens, history will and should (8+ / 0-)

      hold Obama,  and us Democrats accountable for it.

      I favor trying to maintain the same high standards for ourselves as many of us tried to hold the Bush administration to.

      Trying to hold ourselves up to the highest standards, even if we always fall short is a better long term system of ethics than lowering our standards so we can appear to be "overachievers."

      In feedback control theory and systems math, their is an archetype called "floating goals"  which is involved in a behavioral syndrome known as "drift to low performance."

      To some extent is inevitable that we adjust our initial goals down to more realistic levels based on trail and error with the real system.  So one job of great leaders is to help keep our goals high.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 04:03:24 PM PST

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      •  I already hold Obama accountable (9+ / 0-)

        which is not the same thing as saying I blame him for the current situation. But he is, as you point out, like the captain of the ship. He is accountable. And since the issue is as serious as torture, then he has very little time to get up to speed. If he is not able to change direction of this ship in very short course, then he will be not only accountable, but to blame.

        At least these are the distinctions I make.

        War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

        by Valtin on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 04:29:06 PM PST

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      •  Pelosi's statement on investigations (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Valtin

        It is quite revealing when put together with the other information I posted on this diary.

        http://www.youtube.com/...

        We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. -Martin Luther King.

        by Eyes Wide Open on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 09:39:53 PM PST

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        •  But (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Creosote, ovals49

          Pelosi was read into the program, and if not her, then certainly Harman and Rockefeller were, and probably also Feinstein.

          The Democrats will not escape unscathed from investigations, and some argue that fact will keep any prosecutions from taking place. It was certainly a turnaround for Nancy to start talking about prosecutions. Does she know she's safe from any prosecutions? What deals have been made?

          War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

          by Valtin on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 10:30:26 PM PST

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          •  I believe the international community (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Valtin

            is giving our government ultimatums.  Either they begin investigations, or Great Britain and other countries will.

            I don't think the US has a choice, because the crimes are too serious. There is no sweeping it under the rug.

            We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. -Martin Luther King.

            by Eyes Wide Open on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 10:43:31 PM PST

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