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View Diary: Rumsfeld's Revenge: Army Field Manual to Allow Torture (217 comments)

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  •  I guess the devil is in the details. (4+ / 0-)

    I think that sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, and isolation can be used in support of torture.  I think all sleep deprivation and isolation can be legitimately used in support of interrogation.  

    I've done tons of interrogations, mostly battlefield tactical interrogations, but a little booth work as well.  I'm a rapport guy, certainly in the booth and for long term stuff, but have seen the value of "the shock of capture" used in a tactical environment.  

    On the larger points, I think we agree.  I support the fight against the radical groups who seek to destroy us, but I think the metric for victory is effect on recruitment.  More recruits, they win; less, we win.  Abu G, Gitmo, any talk of permissible torture....all represent huge recruitment victories for people we don't want to win.  

    Sometimes I think Obama gets it, others I'm not so sure.  I support prosecution of the Bush administration because successful prosecution will represent a huge win in our fight against recruitment.  

    To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

    by joesig on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 03:59:11 PM PST

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    •  Since I work (8+ / 0-)

      with patients who were innocent but suffered due to torture (not by U.S., but foreign interrorators/torturers), I can't agree it's all about efficacy and recruitment.

      But I do hear you, and the issue of producing or radicalizing new "terrorists" was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard about Abu Ghraib. I thought, shit, another entire generation, and many will now die for this. If this country had any morals, it would try Rumsfeld and the others responsible, publicly, and put them in prison for life. (I am against the death penalty.) That might have an effect on the "street" in the Middle East, the only way to counter the ongoing effects of massive U.S. prisoner abuse and torture under Bush.

      War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

      by Valtin on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 04:09:18 PM PST

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      •  We can be expert witnesses together. Or better, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Phoenix Woman

        serve on the jury.  I'd gladly disavow all knowledge of either joesig or Valtin.  

        To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

        by joesig on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 04:52:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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