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View Diary: House passes fair pay bill (Updated) (195 comments)

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  •  The first step to change is to create doubt. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, Shhs, silentreader

    Without doubt, thinking doesn't take place.

    They may or may not be making the same money as their male colleagues, but many, many women in America are not and they should question why their bosses think that is ok.

    •  Again, not really (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril

      pay discrimination based on gender isn't actually all that prevalent, the overall pay discrepancy between men and women stems more from disproportionately more men in high paying positions such as doctors, IT, financial broker, etc. Where men and women work doing the same job generally the pay is equal. The exceptions have to be prosecuted, but it's not a rampant problem.

      •  Link? n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Casual Wednesday

        GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

        by Shhs on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 06:24:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. We need a link on that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shhs

          I've heard this argument, but I would like to see something to back it up.

          It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.

          by Casual Wednesday on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 06:30:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Do you have something to back up (0+ / 0-)

            the counter argument? It seems to me that a presumption that equal pay laws are being routinely violated would require proof more than a claim that lawbreaking is an exception rather than a rule.

            •  I'll start with this (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kyril

              from the Harvard Law Review. This is an article about a Pay Discrimination Roundtable.

              The second panel featured Eileen Boris, the Hull Professor of Women's Studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara, Monica Ramirez, founder of Esperanza: The Immigrant Women's Legal Initiative, Bruce Elmslie, a professor of economics at the University of New Hampshire, and Consuela Pinto, Senior Counsel at the Center for WorkLife Law.

              Boris focused on the history of equal pay, weaving it into a narrative of women's history. Boris noted that pay discrimination cannot be understood fully without analyzing its intersections with both race and sex.

              Ramirez discussed the experience of low-wage immigrant women, particularly migrant farmworker women, who regularly receive lower pay and less hours of work than male workers, who are laid off more frequently than male workers, and who receive less lucrative opportunities than male workers. Ramirez explained that farmworker women already were unlikely to file pay discrimination claims prior to Ledbetter for a variety of reasons. She noted that the Ledbetter decision only makes it more difficult for these women to bring complaints.

              Here's a couple of links to anecdotal evidence:

              Contra Costa to pay $35,000 in discrimination case

              GE Settles Sex Discrimination Suit Filed By Former In-House Attorney

              I understand these links provide no hard numbers beyond the 70 cents (or so): $1 ratio. The point is that wage discrimination does exist and this bill was a partial remedy.

              I recognize that some of the wage gap can be attributed to the factors that you identified above. However, I don't believe that the intent of this law was to enforce strict pay equity. Rather, it is intended to help actual victims of pay discrimination (which does happen) get justice.  

              It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.

              by Casual Wednesday on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 08:03:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  While it may be true overall that men have (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, Casual Wednesday

        the better jobs in this society, I know quite a few men and woman in my industry who are doing the same jobs and the men make more.

        Just a little anecdotal evidence that goes against what you are saying.

        •  Have they worked in the same capacity (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril

          for the same period of time without prolonged periods of leave?

          See that's the thing--when you reduce comparisons to men and women who have worked in the same jobs for the same period without at least six months leave, then even in the early to mid 90s the pay discrepancy overall was only about 7 cents. And of course for a long time, women in the 18-25 age group have actually made more than men in the same age group for quite a while.

          •  I am talking about what is being paid (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril

            for freelance rates. Almost without fail the men are given more than the women. It comes from a built in bias that men are the "wage earners" and women don't really need the money as much as men do.

            Of course, that is often not true, but the myth prevails and colors compensation rates.

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