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View Diary: Ralph's Gift (380 comments)

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  •  Screw that (none)
    I am not going to sit down and take it while America is hammered into the ground by wingnuts, lunatics, and fascists.

    The future of this country is at stake. And for the future of the country, we need to go right back to war.

    No turning cheeks. No quarter. No reconciliation. No forgiveness. We keep going until we're in power and then keep going again until we've restored our place in the world.

    •  I understand your frustration. (none)
      Do not "sit down and take it"; fight. But be smart about it, man. Calling them names will just validate their lies about you.

      We will keep going, and we will restore our place in the world. We won't do that through hatred. I didn't say forgive or forget--I said, kill them with kindness.

      •  If I could give you a "5" (4.00)
        I would.

        You're exactly right.  The particular group of Christians that voted for Bush is a minority, but if we go on the attack, we risk offending mainline Christians (which includes me), and cementing the Republicans as the party of God.

        Once upon a time, the majority of Christians in this  country were convinced that the Democratic message was the message closest to their own beliefs.  It still is.  Where we have failed is in how we have worded and delivered our message.

        If the Republicans have been allowed to gain a foothold within religious groups, it's our fault.  We have not fought hard enough to keep our grip.  And to do so, I don't believe we have to bend one plank of our platform.  We just have to show them that our platform is the platform best suited to reach Christian goals.

        For those ready to write these groups off as an "American Taliban": You think these evangelicals don't care about the poor?  They do.  You think they like war?  They don't.  You think they're stupid?  They're not.

        However they are ignorant, ignorant of how the Democratic message and the Christian message are in tremendous harmony.  And there is no one to blame for that but the Democrats.

        •  i posted higher up in this thread (none)
          but will repeat here. it's important to differentiate christians who act in an unchristian fashion from christians who do their best to practice christian love and tolerance. let's please not assume all evangelicals and fundamentalists are the same. there are some who are driven more by bigotry and meanness than by the urge to live by jesus' injunction to "love they neighbor as thyself."

          just as we can say neo-con, moderate republican, libertarian, liberal democrat, moderate democrat, rightwing democrat (i don't know what else to call zell miller), we can differentiate between christians who embrace the doctrine of love and tolerance and "debased christians" who act as though they believe more in sadistic punishment than in redemption.

          cloaking oneself in the mantle of christianity does not mean other christians have to defend one. doesn't it say somewhere in the bible "by their acts shall ye judge them"? by their acts. not by what they call themselves or by the invocations behind which they try to hide. if your actions are base and you invoke christ to justify them, there's no question in my mind you deserve to be called a debased christian.

          nope, i'm not a christian of any sect. but i was taught that jesus set the bar pretty high for love and forgiveness. if that's not what you're aspiring to as a christian, maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere.

          We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

          by yankeedoodler on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:33:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  amen to that (none)
            It's important not to see religious people as a monolithic group, but rather to identify which segment of that group is unreachable, and adjust the way we present our values to the rest of the group.  This is not to say that we abandon our core principles as Democrats (this, of course, requires determining what those core principles actually are), and present them in a short, simply-worded way.  Oh, and it's important that we don't just start taking the message to the people 18 months before the election.  The message has to be pushed constantly, starting now.  Did Republicans stop pushing their message when they were completely out of power between '92 and '94?  No, they pushed it harder than ever.
    •  I'm afraid you're right (none)
      Turning the other cheek doesn't work.  Kerry took the high road, and now everyone's saying it was a mistake.  He should have used the convention to bash the hell out of Bush.  

      Negative politics works.  You cannot fight it by turning other cheek.  Not least because it makes you look weak - something a political party cannot afford during wartime.

      "We share half our genes with the banana. This is a fact more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." - Robert Mays

      by randym77 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:18:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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