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View Diary: Ralph's Gift (380 comments)

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  •  Moving forward (none)
    Kos,

    You have to ease up. We are all pissed but the Repubs read these blogs too. Gay marriage
    and to a smaller extent Al Gore's saying Bush was not religious was offensive to too many people. While from a moral standpoint I understand where we stand we need to be less radical about making things happen. For example this killed us:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/05/politics/campaign/05newsom.html?ex=1100322000&en=9ded53d30652b db9&ei=5059&partner=AOL

    We need to define a base set of morals that define us and convey that message. We need
    to address God, guns, gays and abortion. Let's make a plan to meet the Right half way on
    this issues so don't keep being issues in every election. For example:

    1. God - Basically our faith and reading of the Bible.
    2. Gays - No marriage unless at the state level and advocate civil unions.
    3. Guns - Not sure we can make somthing up.
    4. Abortion - Pro-choice but no partial birth except for rape, incest and mother's health.

    We have to get these issues lower on the radar.
    •  Partially Agree... (none)
      Social issues are losing issues for us.  I say this with a heavy heart, but it's clear that social progressives are not a majority of Americans.  We're going to have to "agree to disagree" with the rural/heartland folks on these.

      It's very easy for those of us who live in coastal urban liberal enclaves to become convinced that there are more of us than exist in reality...  Yes, 85% of NW DC, Manhattan, and the Bay Area agree with us... but it's useless to pretend that social progressives are a majority.  That's also part of being in the "reality-based community" -- admitting painful truths...

      I'm GregP and I approve this message.

      by GregP on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:44:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  a fool's errand (none)
      Why? Because we are talking about fundies here. You think it's enough to ban gay marriage? Nonsense. In every state where these laws passed there will be court challenges on their consitutionality...both in each state and in some cases(if taken up) on the Federal level.

      You can't hope these issues will go away over time or distract them with issues more favorable to us. Things like gay marriage ammendments have to fought for what they are: bullshit wedge issues to divide and distract us, pushed by zealots who will never be satisfied.

      You are wrong to think fundies will be happy with limiting reproductive freedom wrt abortion. If they overturn Roe, the next step will be birth control, or some other wedge. Their whole ethos is THERE ALWAYS NEEDS TO BE A FIGHT(sorry for the caps, don't know how to italicize)and it doesn't even matter to their leaders if they lose because by actually winning it makes their leaders useless.

      •  There may be a way to neutralize the whole (none)
        gay marriage issue.  Civil marriage is basically a contract between two people that has standard terms and conditions.  I am no lawyer, but what's to stop two men or two women who want to commit their lives together from just rolling their own civil contract and agreeing to it, spelling out t's and c's for everything surrounding marriage but doing it civilly?  I realize that gays want (and deserve) full recognition in our society, but by going the court route to force the issue they've set themselves (and us) back ten years.  Wouldn't they get the same commitment and legal rights this way, and present a much more diffuse target in the bargain?

        Wouldn't it be great to have a President who did the right thing as the automatic choice instead of a grudging last resort?

        by DemInTampa on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 07:07:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  No Dice. (none)
      I am not meeting the Right halfway on squat.  They don't believe in compromise, they believe in crushing us.  Offer them an olive branch and all they do is pull further and further to the right so that "halfway" falls where "crazy-ass extreme" used to.  I am digging in and saying, "You shall not pass."

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