Skip to main content

View Diary: Ralph's Gift (380 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I have found the evidence (none)
    Read this LA Times Commentary (before you eat your dinner - you won't be able to keep dinner down after reading this):

    November 5, 2004

    Christian Conservatives Must Not Compromise
    Voters reject liberalism, an evil ideology.

    By Frank Pastore, Former major league pitcher Frank Pastore is the afternoon host on the Christian talk-radio station KKLA, 99.5 FM.

    Christians, in politics as in evangelism, are not against people or the world. But we are against false ideas that hold good people captive. On Tuesday, this nation rejected liberalism, primarily because liberalism has been taken captive by the left. Since 1968, the left has taken millions captive, and we must help those Democrats who truly want to be free to actually break free of this evil ideology.

    In the weeks and months to come, we will hear the voices of well-meaning people beseeching the victor to compromise with the vanquished. This would be a mistake. Conservatives must not compromise with the left. Good people holding false ideas are won over only if we defeat what is false with the truth.

    The left must be defeated in the realm of ideas, just as it was on Tuesday at the ballot box. The left hates the ballot box and loves its courtrooms, which is why it hopes to continue to advance its agenda through the courts. This must end.

    The left bewitches with its potions and elixirs, served daily in its strongholds of academe, Hollywood and old media. It vomits upon the morals, values and traditions we hold sacred: God, family and country. As we learned Tuesday, it is clear the left holds the majority of Americans, the majority of us, in contempt.

    Simply, a majority of Americans have rejected John Kerry and John Edwards and the left because they are wrong. They are wrong because there are not two Americas. We are one nation under a God they reject. We remain indivisible despite their attempts to divide Americans through their relentless warfare against class, ethnic and religious unity.

    We still believe that liberty and justice is for all. In 1946, there were those on the left who believed the Germans and the Japanese were incapable of democracy and liberty. Today, many doubt democracy can be birthed in Iraq or Afghanistan. Like their forebears, they too will be proved wrong.

    The nation has now resoundingly rejected the left and its agenda. We do not want to become European. We do not want to become socialist. We do not want to become secular. We are exceptional. We are unique. And we are the greatest force for good in the world, despite what the left, the terrorists or the United Nations may claim. It is for these reasons that we remain the last great hope in the world for freedom.

    We continue to be that shining city set on a hill. And we fully accept the responsibility; we are proud to be the envy of the world.

    I know I should just provide a link, but I felt this had to be read to be believed.

    •  We are one nation under a God (none)
      The minute a country has an official state religion, that's the end of religion. Educated religious leaders know this.
      •  Interesting comment. Could you expand? Thx (none)
        •  state religion destroys religious belief (none)
          A state religion is very dangerous and the religious scholars know this very well. It's shown througout history at least in Europe.

          I did a search and found this from Texas Baptists:

          ... the church develops credibility problems when it becomes too intertwined with the state. Virtually every state will at some point adopt policies that some segment of its population dislikes. When such a disconnect develops between the state and a segment of its population, that group of citizens is likely to question not only the government's concern for the group, but also the concern of any church closely aligned with the state. Over time, numerous groups will be alienated by various government policies, and the lack of trust in the government will carry over to the government's favored church(es).

          •  Interesting (none)
            So they each end up cannibalizing each other.

            While it's kinda funny to think about (Bush and his fundies cannibalizing each other), the implications for this country continue to be dire.

            Sounds like an excellent wedge issue to me! Let's promote this information far and wide! Let the cannibalizing begin! (Before it's too late.)

        •  Religion and state mix=TNT+match (none)
          History shows time and again that the mingling of these institutions inevitably corrupt's happened in almost every country and religion it's been tried in. The Founding Fathers had to look no further than the Puritans of the 1690s for proof of this....the Salem Witch Trials are a perfect example of how the mixture of religion and state combust. Of course, at the time of the Salem, there was no US, just a tiny colony of Britian founded by people who came here to escape the Crown's persecution of them....that's right, the then and now Church of England.

          The Founders, who had almost 100 years of intervening history after this incident to reflect, delibrately choose to NOT have a "state religion" such as the country they were freeing themlseves from. The intention was VERY clear!Not only did they conclude that a "state religion" is intolerant to dissent, in either religious or political beliefs, but that the mixture had an adverse affect on the areas of science and humanitarian advancement....all the great docs of that period (Articles of Confedration, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and various pamphlets) are representative of their age, ie The Age of Enlightenment.

          Just using the Protestant (note the protest part) tradition, which itself comes as a reaction to Chruch (Roman Catholic) and state(s) being intermingled, there is incident after incident of both being muddied by the other. A look at the present day adherance to the state religions in Europe shows clearly that people are largely divorced from the official Chruch and religion in general. (It's very arguable that American Catholics are more conservative that Italian ones, et al)

          When Religion and State are mixed, both can be cynically used to manipulate the populace by convincing them to do things against their own interests, yet in the interest of the powers-that-be. From our recent election, exmaples are clearly have preachers telling people who are potentially facing or already in financial crisis to vote for the very candidate who has (arguably) created their plight. They are convinced to morgage the futures of themselves and their families to vote on things which do not DIRECTLY affect them. How can some schmo sitting here in Ohio, who's job has been or will be outsourced, vote against their personal interests for things which don't concern them? Is keeping two guys/girls from marrying, a gay person being fired just for being gay, or some poor woman's decision to have an abortion worth having YOUR kids undereducated and in poor health? This is where manipulating something that CAN be a source of good (a person's faith) to do harm to oneself and others is toxic......this is where BOTH religion and government become institutions of oppression instead of liberation....which is what the REAL intention is of both things, IMHO. It not only oppresses others, but themselves.

          This "madate" has the potential to return this country to the 1690s....

          Of course, not all people who are believers will allow their clergy to dictate how they should behave politically nor their politicans to tell them how to worship (if at all) fact, you've always had people object to either "chruch" (in quotes because this isn't just a Christian issue) and state mixed.

          This history is long and complicated, cuts thru every religion and culture, and has ultimately failed wherever tried.....but it has cost the world lots of lives, suffering, and created distrust for both government and religion.

          LOL...just to add in a bit of MY religion, I'll end w/ a saying I firmly believe in. "Do not involve yourself in things which do not concern you."

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site