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View Diary: Gates Says 'Yes' To Beer With Crowley (176 comments)

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  •  Sometime, yes, but not always, especially here. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Setrak

    What legacy do you want to leave?

    by Jimdotz on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 09:56:53 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, but you said you wanted a discussion (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2, BYw, teachme2night, MichaelNY

      of this matter that precludes that reality.  That's just dishonest.  If you can't acknowledge that race can influence how people see things,  then you really have no business discussing this at all.

      Blagojevich/Palin '12.

      by fou on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:02:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bwahahhahah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      houyhnhnm, fou

      yes, you're funny. Thanks for lightening up the situation. Forgot where I was for a moment...

    •  So much for this place being a place for (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jimdotz, Prachar

      color-blind and civil discussion.

      Ah well.

      "Change has come to Washington, and I hope Karl Rove is ready for it. After two years of stonewalling, it's time for him to talk." John Conyers 1/26/09

      by Setrak on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:23:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2, teachme2night, MichaelNY

        Because color-blindness means accusing Prof. Gates of being out of line, while never acknowledging the place from which you speak.

        Yaah, that's really color blind, and honest I might add.

        Blagojevich/Palin '12.

        by fou on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:25:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He IS out of line. (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rockhound, Jimdotz, Darmok, Prachar, Jane Lew

          He's shocked- SHOCKED that he hasn't received an apology from someone he accused loudly(on national television) and repeatedly of racism.  Give me a break.  Both Gates and Crowley would have served us all better by letting cooler heads prevail.  They both deserve blame.

          "Change has come to Washington, and I hope Karl Rove is ready for it. After two years of stonewalling, it's time for him to talk." John Conyers 1/26/09

          by Setrak on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:34:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your rationality is totally out of line here (5+ / 0-)

            One person has to be 100% correct (and the victim) and the other, 100% wrong (and the oppressor).

            Yeah, it sounds dumb when you type it out, but thems the rules for some.

          •  No they're not both to blame. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2, corvo, Bene Gesserit1, MichaelNY

            Whatever Gates said, and however much an arrogant bastard he may be, doesn't justify his arrest.  Does he look foolish on television screaming racism?  To some he does, undoubtedly.  Does it make him culpable, even partially, for a wrongful arrest?  Absolutely not.  The officer is the only one with the power to arrest Gates, and so he's solely to blame for a wrongful arrest.  You seem to be arguing that the accusation of racism from a public figure such as Gates is as damaging as a wrongful arrest, and that's just bullshit.

            Besides, why do you care so much if Gates thinks the cop's a racist?  Why must he apologize?  Because Gates' opinion of Crowley is somehow so damaging .. that they're both invited to the White House for a beer?  If anything, Crowley should thank Gates' for his 15 minutes.  For that matter, how do you know that Crowley's not racist?  You could only reasonably demand an apology of Gates if you knew that Crowley wasn't racist, and there's no way for you to know that.

            It's pretty clear to me, based on my scant 39 years of existence, that everybody's a little bit racist.  This whole shit storm happened because of a failure to communicate between both men, a failure that is rooted in our nation's unfortunate past.  I'm relieved to know that they're both willing to look beyond this for the sake of unity.  Now, why don't you?

            Blagojevich/Palin '12.

            by fou on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 11:15:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Color blind? Seriously? Is this 1956? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leonard145b

        "Color blind" is usually just a call for Racism Denial. Color blindness is a conscious choice to exclude reality. It serves only people for whom reality is not an ally.

    •  On second thought, you're right. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jimdotz, teachme2night

      Peoples opinions are rarely influenced by race in this forum.  Most of the time, people are clear-eyed and rational.  This is, after all, the elite blogosphere.

      Blagojevich/Palin '12.

      by fou on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:24:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  C'mon, Friend. We do a pretty good job... (0+ / 0-)

        of being race-neutral here. No place is perfect, but I think that more than most places, we really try here.

        What legacy do you want to leave?

        by Jimdotz on Sat Jul 25, 2009 at 10:40:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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