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View Diary: Baker Schools Huckabee on Israeli Settlements (290 comments)

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  •  Baker is overstating this immensely (0+ / 0-)

    Building some apartments in Jerusalem neighborhoods where Jews already live is not making a peace settlement more difficult.  Please.  Israel withdrew its Sinai settlements to make peace with Egypt.  Israel withdrew its Gaza settlements in a huge step forward for peace (although of course, after calling for Israel to unilaterally withdraw its settlements from Gaza for 30 years, once Sharon finally did it, he was bashed for being "unilateral").

    What makes peace difficult is the following:

    a) the Palestinians have refused to even sit at the negotiating table ever since Obama took office.
    b) the Palestinians have two governments; one of those governments is committed by charter to the destruction of Israel and claims publicly that it is seeking all Israeli land, not just the West Bank and Gaza.

    The settlements don't help, but to say that obstruct a potential peace agreement is a joke.  Settlements have been withdrawn before, they'll be withdrawn again.  But it's hard to negotiate a peace agreement when there's an empty chair at the other side of the table.

    •  I know. Israel just needs a tiny bit more than (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      capelza, Uberbah

      it has right now. Just start from the second pane in this graphic.

      Photobucket

      •  amusing misrepresentation (0+ / 0-)

        Map #1 is complete hogwash, the land was owned by Britain, and there was no such thing as "Jewish vs. Palestinian land."  Jews there at the time were also Palestinian.  They didn't become Israeli till 1948.

        Map #2 is of a partition plan that was accepted by the Jews and rejected out of hand by the Arabs. The whole divide back then was Jewish vs. Arab, not Jewish vs. Palestinian.  The partition of British Palestine also included giving all of Jordan to the Arabs.

        Maps #3 is a bold-faced lie. The "Palestinian land" is actually Jordan and Egypt. Not Palestine.  If you have a problem with the Palestinians not ruling themselves during that time, blame Jordan and Egypt.

        Map #4 is hilarious.  You blotch out areas that are uninhabited and pretend that means it's Israeli land.  What a lie.

    •  What is a joke is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      capelza, Lefty Coaster, Uberbah

      any attempt to diminish the the destructive impact of the settlements. Pretending they make little difference is silly beyond words.

      There was one reason and one reason only for announcing the building plans for Jerusalem: to obstruct any potential momentum for negotiations. It was bad faith to the max.

      •  they're already in east jerusalem (0+ / 0-)

        If Israel were destroying an Arab's apartment, kicking him out, and rebuilding it for some Jews to move in, that would be destructive.  This is adding apartments to an already Jewish neighborhood in East Jerusalem.  It's the same policy that's been going on for 40 years.  You may not like it, but the impact of this one building plan has been absurdly overstated.

        •  Total and Complete Bullshit (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          capelza, Lefty Coaster, Uberbah

          If one is serious about peace negotiations, one shows it by making good faith gestures that will create a climate for good faith negotiations, not by making announcements that one knows full well will be met with a hostile reaction. There simply was no need for this announcement, except to further poison the well.

          •  Netanyahu suspended all new settlement (0+ / 0-)

            construction outside East Jerusalem for a year.  No prime minister in Israel has EVER done this.  That is a good faith gesture, period.  What good faith gesture have the Palestinians made?  None, you know why? Because Israel is not making any demands to return to peace talks.  Israel is already at the peace table, waiting for the Palestinians to sit in the currently empty chair.

            •  Nice dodge . . . not (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              capelza, Lefty Coaster, Uberbah

              You know damn well that there is no way to explain the announcement as anything other than a gesture of bad faith. None whatsoever. You can point to other things all you want, but that doesn't show that this was gesture of good faith. Not by a long shot.

              You live in a fantasy world if you truly believe this was a confidence-building measure. I don't think you live in a fantasy world, though. You know damn well you are full of it on this one.

    •  immense, bald faced lying (0+ / 0-)

      Building some apartments in Jerusalem neighborhoods where Jews already live is not making a peace settlement more difficult.

      Know who else lives there?  Palestinians.  Guess who are forced to leave?  Palestinians.  Guess who is forced to leave when Israel declares an area to be a park?

      Israel withdrew its Gaza settlements in a huge step forward for peace

      ...while still maintaining complete military control over the area, and maintaining a blockade of the populace.  Remember what was Israel's justification for starting the 1967 war?  You got it, blockades.

      And the entire reason for the withdrawal: gerrymandering.  Land wasn't "returned" for peace, it was "returned" to prevent the Palestinians in Gaza from ever voting in Israeli elections.

      the Palestinians have refused to even sit at the negotiating table ever since Obama took office.

      ....as long as Israel continues it's settlements land theft.

      one of those governments is committed by charter to the destruction of Israel

      Step 1: Steal land from other people.
      Step 2. Whine when they want it back.

      I'm a part of the reality-based community, not the personality-based community.

      by Uberbah on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:59:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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