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View Diary: I Came Back From Cuba Today (265 comments)

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  •  Well except for that ungodly baby seal slaughter. (5+ / 0-)

    In that respect there aren't enough words in the English language to appropriately stone them with.

    Why do nice Canadians (and I've never met a Canadian who wasn't) condone that?

    •  the same reason Americans condone.... (0+ / 0-)

      ...priests molesting children.

      Because there is something atavistic and evil in humans that gets off on the vicarious thrill of knowing that horrible things are being done to creatures* that look innocent and cute, such as baby seals, altar boys, and Catholic school girls.  

      Humans thereby think they can get a pass for the evil things that they themselves do to others:  "Look, I'm hardly as evil as that guy over there so get off my case, OK?!"

      ---

      *Creatures: anyone who doesn't like that term being applied to humans is welcome to try to prove we're not animals.  

      •  Wait! Wha? (8+ / 0-)

        What Americans are condoning priests molesting children? I mean outside the hierarchy of the Catholic Church of course, which cannot be even remotely seen as specifically "American." Nor is the wide-spread molestation of children by priests an American phenomena, but rather has happened, probably still IS happening, around the world. It is an outgrowth of horrifyingly unrealistic expectations of priests' sexual behavior by the Catholic church combined with a priest's near absolute power over his congregation. Add in a willingness to turn a blind eye in order to protect the Church's historic but thankfully declining power and you get what we have today... including a man on the thrown of St. Peter who actively protected molesters. Disgusting! But not just an "American" issue nor one condoned by Americans on a wide scale.

        A more accurate comparison might be to condoning torture of suspected terrorists.

        One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. - Nietzsche

        by Mayken on Tue May 18, 2010 at 10:54:51 PM PDT

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        •  that too but not as much so. (5+ / 0-)

          You'll go to prison for refusing to pay taxes.  

          You won't go to prison for refusing to tithe to the church.

          American Catholics who give money to the church in such a manner that the money goes to the hierarchy, are not only condoning, but supporting, molesters and molester-protectors with their money.

          The American religious right, who inveigh against consenting adult acts but say exactly nothing about molestation of children, are condoning it by their silence.  

          Americans in cities with major molestation problems, who didn't get up and go down to their local District Attorney's office and pound on the doors and make a huge roar, bear as much responsibility as Americans who were silent about torture.

          And American prosecuting attorneys who didn't throw the book and the whole damn bookcase at the church as an institution, for racketeering charges (RICO), are condoning it by failing to prosecute it to the fullest extent of the law.  

          As for the current Pope, the answer to him and Cardinal Law (who he is presently shielding from prosecution in the US) should be the same as the answer to the Taliban in Afghanistan for harboring Al Qaeda.  

          And then the answer to the Catholic Church as a whole, is the same as the answer to Germany after WW2:  DeNazification then, and its equivalent today.  A complete reboot, reformat the hard drive, and reload the operating system starting from scratch with a clean build.

          •  No, but if you believe, you will go to Hell (0+ / 0-)

            And a priests power over one's immortal soul, for many believers, is more important than temporal considerations.

            All Catholics giving money to the Church are supporting the horror, regardless of their country of origin. The Catholic Church is a world wide organization not even remotely an American institution, so calling out Americans specifically as "condoning" this is disingenuous.

            Americans ARE outraged by it and want something done about it. There are lawsuits and legislation galore going on surrounding it...

            There is exactly NO ONE in America (or elsewhere where this scandal is coming out) saying child molestation by priests is OK or should be allowed to go on. You'd be very hard pressed to find someone in this country who doesn't have an opinion on the matter and very few who wouldn't condemn it. That's hardly people taking pleasure in the hurting of defenseless creatures or however you put it.

            Torture on the other hand, not so much. And there are people who are not only NOT silent on the matter but actively pushing for it.

            One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. - Nietzsche

            by Mayken on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:50:39 AM PDT

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        •  It was in America that the scandle was first (0+ / 0-)

          uncovered and highlighted. It opened the door for other countries to unlock the terrible secret they were hiding.

          While Catholics may tithe or contribute to their church, it it because of their faith in the religion and not their attachment to the hierarchy.

          I am not Catholic so I have no dog in this hunt, but lets try to be fair in discussing this tragic history.

          On another topic, can people in Cuba read books not published by their government? Can they order books from outside their country?

          Don't know if I can order a book from Cuba, but I can order from elsewhere without fearing that a government agent will come knocking. If I travel abroad, I can bring back any book I might buy overseas.

          Many countries are now doing business with Cuba so why is the US blamed for the problems the Cuban people may experience?

          Yes, I wish we would open up a bit more, but Cuba has Venezuela as a best bud so they should be flooded with all the things they need for "the good life."

          Progressives will win when the country becomes Progressive.

          by auapplemac on Wed May 19, 2010 at 12:12:14 AM PDT

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          •  Um... So? (0+ / 0-)

            That doesn't make it an American issue nor does it reveal Americans as "condoning" it. It's a Catholic Church issue and NO ONE is condoning it.

            One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. - Nietzsche

            by Mayken on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:51:46 AM PDT

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    •  Why Do Nice Americans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries

      Condone the lifelong torture of livestock, chickens, and swine in conditions that are the stuff of nightmares?

    •  This is a much more complicated issue (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      natasha, Progressive Chick

      than you think it is.

      With the decline in the polar bear population, and the collapse of the cod fishery, the seals are overreproducing and, if left to their own devices, starving to death. Personally I think it's better to cull the population to a sustainable size that to let them starve.

      I've been to Newfoundland, a poor place that got even poorer after the fishery collapse. The climate is harsh, there is very little arable land, almost no farming is possible, and many of the men must travel to Western Canada where there are logging jobs to find any work at all.

      The island is overrun by half-starved moose because about 100 years some wealthy genius with too much time on his hands decided that the native reindeer didn't offer enough sport to hunters. They are both the biggest cause of traffic accidents (frequently fatal) and the major source of protein. Newfoundlanders also hunt, and eat, seals, in season, and I don't begrudge them.

      The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

      by sidnora on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:43:19 AM PDT

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    •  And Oppressing Tribal Canadians (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Progressive Chick

      Their "First Nations" people are still at best 2nd class citizens, and not infrequently still treated as subhuman. Not just by terrible civilian neighbors, but by the government institutions.

      Canada is the "kinder, gentler nation". But it's still got a long way to go towards true civility - even if shorter than the distant straggler US.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:52:19 AM PDT

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