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View Diary: Bachmann update: trouble! they're going to fact check her... (241 comments)

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  •  the ongoing liberal delusion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill Prendergast, Musial, motr

    There's a mass hallucination on the left that if we simply explain to voters that (insert conservative here) is lying, they'll stop voting for (insert conservative here). Nonsense. There's no proof that this has EVER worked. Voters, by and large, don't care about Truth (whatever lip service they pay to it). They mostly care about having their own belief structures reinforced.

    The height of the delusion was the 2004 presidential election, when Bush was spewing lie after lie about the war, and about Kerry. We all thought just exposing the truth was enough. It wasn't, not nearly.

    But still, y'all seem to think it'll make a difference. Michele Bachmann's voters don't CARE that she's lying. What they care about is that she keeps telling them what they want to hear.

    If you want to get people to stop, say, voting for Bachmann, it's not enough to show that she's lying. You have to change their expectations, put what she says out of sync with what they want to believe.

    "Sure, she's stuck playing Jan to Sarah Palin's Marcia..."
    -City Pages on Michele Bachmann

    by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:51:51 AM PDT

    •  Her constituents (0+ / 0-)

      don't view her as being controversial, but as a nice person. Perhaps a persistent gadfly could be effective (like Leslie Davis with Ventura).

      •  are you kidding? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Garrett, Musial

        Her constituents (both for and against) KNOW she's a loon. The question is, do they LIKE her kind of loon? That's the problem. Believe me, Minnesotans, especially in her district, are well aware of who she is and what she stands for. They vote for her not because she's seen as "a nice person", but because she's protecting them from existential threats like terrorists and taxes and Martians.

        Also, keep in mind that for all the Minnesota Nice, we like real colorful characters in office. This is the state that gave us Jesse Ventura, Al Franken, and Paul Wellstone. The only reason we have a colorless apparatchik like Pawlenty for governor is because the DFL keeps running even MORE colorless candidates for governor (a friend described Roger Moe as "cold pancakes with no syrup", and Mike Hatch's color was basically being an asshole).

        "Sure, she's stuck playing Jan to Sarah Palin's Marcia..."
        -City Pages on Michele Bachmann

        by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:56:45 AM PDT

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        •  Point well taken (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Into The Woods

          Wellstone was a gadfly to Boschwitz, Ventura to Coleman and Humphrey, Franken to Coleman- Clark has taken aim at Bachmann as being out of touch with the district.

        •  You know, OMC, your point has (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Into The Woods, Musial

          already been made, in this thread. And it's already been acknowledged that it's true--it doesn't make a whit of difference to Bachmann "supporters" that she's exposed a liar.

          But it makes a big difference to Americans who aren't Bachmann supporters, if it's regularly pointed out to them that she's a liar, and the evidence is reliable and published publicly.

          Ánd those regular revelations of a policy of lying, can have an adverse effect on the career of a liar.

          You cited the career of Bush. So do I. The exposure of Bush/Cheney as liars, and the fact that they were finally defined as such in the minds of voters outside the left, played a role in the overthrow of a Republican Congress and White House.

          Don't delude yourself that exposing conservatives as liars "doesn't work." It can, if you can get the proof to the voters who aren't proto-fascists, regularly.

        •  Zeal OK If Not Directed to Personal Gain (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Musial

          Ventura had a much broader following until the perception changed towards viewing his actions as self-interest motivated.

          "Lies" about public policy positions are, as you say, largely irrelevant in changing voters positions on issues or candidates, but being a "liar" is not.

          The perception of Bachmann as a delusional zealot is not what would hurt her in the polls.

          A perception that she is in this for her own celebrity or is not true to her beliefs on the issues central to the voters (jobs, standing up to the rich and powerful, caring for the little guy) is going to be key in an election that will be defined not by 9-11 but by the Great Recession and what your relationship is with the Wall Street Banklords.

          It's 'redistribution' whether it happens before or after the money is made and whether it goes up to a small group or down to a larger one.

          by Into The Woods on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:50:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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