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View Diary: The Iraq Election: Defining Success (489 comments)

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  •  What I fear is that Bush will get the credit (none)
    Bob Schieffer said today, "If Bush succeeds in putting Iraq on the road to democracy, he will be remembered as a great president."
    •  wait and see on that (none)
      remember, Woodrow Wilson was instrumental in bringing democracy to much of Europe, but it didn't last and neither did his 'legacy.'  
    •  That's Silly (none)
      No matter what happens, Bush is going to say that democracy succeeded in Iraq.  Down is up to him.

      Bob is expecting Bush to make an objective analysis of the situation over there?  HA!

      Quit telling me how I should feel, Bob.  Stick to your job of relaying factual information to my brain.

    •  Heh (none)
      Scheiffer - what a dork.

      "Just say no to torture." -Semi-Anonymous Blogger.

      by Armando on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:21:49 AM PST

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      •  why? (none)
        he is not, what he says is realistic.

        The fact is, if the Iraqi will find ways to create a better, fairer, more free and more secure life for the citizens, those feelings will prevail and what remains is the notion that it couldn't have happened, if Saddam Hussein had not been toppled. That at least is directly related to the US invasion.

        The only thing is, it might be very unlikely that the Iraqi people will be able to create that life in the near future. They will have civil war more likely, and need to fight the "enemy within".

        I think, it might not be possible to "get Iraqi democracy" without the Iraqi themselves fighting against all those who oppose it. If the US military could withdraw relatively fast and quiet, it might end up that the US invasion into Iraq would be judged as a catalyst help for the Iraqis, who want to fight for a democratic constitution, to get into a situation where they at least could try to fight for it on their own.

        Bush is smiling while he is speaking now and I don't mind him doing so. There is nothing wrong with being "relieved" that the elections didn't turn out worse. And that's basically all there is to it right now.

         

        Human life should be governed by truth, freedom, justice and love.

        by mimi on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:11:04 AM PST

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        •  Not realistic at all (none)
          Do you really think the Americanpeople give 2 shits about Iraqi freedom?  how about Afghani freedom? Shouldn't that secure is place in history?  It doesn't does it?  See my point?

          "Just say no to torture." -Semi-Anonymous Blogger.

          by Armando on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:53:12 PM PST

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    •  wish there was more faith in reality (none)
      I don't worry that Bush will be remembered as a "great" or "visionary" president. History will more likely remember him as a gambler who almost broke the entire country and its military over Iraq. All gamblers are lucky sometimes.Let's just keep the chips out his hands until 2008.
    •  reality (none)
      "If Bush succeeds in putting Iraq on the road to democracy, he will be remembered as a great president."

      The operational word is "if" and he sure won't be remembered as a great president by those of use who opposed this illegal and immoral war in which tens of thousands of people have been wounded for life or have died.

      I can think of many words to describe Bush. "Great" isn't one of them. Greatness belongs to people with humility.

    •  Bobby's initials aren't BS for nothing n/t (none)

      Absolute executive power absolutely tortures.

      by caliberal on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:00:58 AM PST

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    •  OK (none)
      I once stuck up for Schieffer on the Kerry blog when he was attacked in advance as a potential debate moderator.  The man was from the old school of ethical journalism, I said: a REAL journalist, impartial.  So what if he golfed with the Bushes once in a while?  He could be professionally objective.

      But this lube job sends me over the rainbow and not in a good way.  You know the greasy spot left on the sdiewalk after you scrape up your dogshit?  Cheney's lower than that.  And Bush reports to Cheney.  And Schieffer's reporting on Bush.

      "No. I'm pretty fuckin' far from OK."

      by moltar on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:51:52 AM PST

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      •  To be fair (none)
        he followed that quote immediately with another implying that history would be highly critical of Bush if things don't work out.  I didn't catch the exact quote and the transcript isn't ready yet.
    •  It's not about credit, it's about courage (none)
      Don't worry, Bu*sh* will get due credit for this mess. History may have been written by the victors in the past, and there is this tendency today, but in the end, the facts are clear enough.

      What many on this board don't seem to realize is that this really is a great day for the Iraqis. It must take a tremendous amount of courage to vote, to show yourself at the polling station, to have your finger marked purple, to put you fingerprint down as having voted. This is the real story.  

      Also remember that Iraq had rigged elections from the 20's to the 50's. Given the US control of this it must seem like there is a very small chance
      these elections will be fair.  However, in spite of a history of bogus elections, in spite of a flawed process, in spite of personal risk, many Iraqis did vote.

      They voted for a small chance to have a better life. They are to be admired and supported. Please do not cast this as failure. It is progress. And in the end, this is how the Iraqis are going to get rid of us, and get their lives back.  

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