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View Diary: MO-Sen: Dems suffering from intensity gap (246 comments)

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  •  I'm not voting (3+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    TJ, ThatsNotFunny, Malumaureus
    Hidden by:
    fcvaguy, ezdidit

    I'm from the left and I'm not voting.  I think we need to send a clear message that democrats will not get the vote unless they represent truly progressive causes.  It may hurt short term as more republicans get elected.  But in the intermediate term we should get a rising progressive movement.

    Obama, Summers, et al. serve only to neuter the progressive movement.

    Join me in not voting this fall!!!

    Jim
    commentsongpe.wordpress.com

    •  I'm just as disgusted as you are ... (9+ / 0-)

      but I don't think that's going to help us either.

      If it's served to us and it's unpalatable but we smack our lips like it is the best thing we ever ate, how will the chef know to change the dish?

      by emsprater on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 08:54:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You win a gold star. (6+ / 0-)

      Sen. Reid is no different than the Republicans who demagogue the issue. He's no different than Sarah Palin, Steve King, Rush Limbaugh. Enjoy the company.

      by Jonze on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 08:55:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This won't have the desired result (19+ / 0-)

      If dems don't turn out in this election the result will not be that elected officials decide that they should move further left; they will play more to the center, as they did after the 94 midterms.

      Not voting is not a solution.

    •  The only... (9+ / 0-)

      statement that forgoing the constitutional right to vote makes is idiocy.

      So many fought so hard to have it for themselves...what a slap in the face to them to discard your own.

      •  They fought for our current mediocrity. (0+ / 0-)

        When presented with two horrible options, refusing to partake in the process is a perfectly acceptable, patriotic statement to make.

        If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
        --@jameskass

        by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:02:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and you... (6+ / 0-)

          surrender your right to complain about the consequences, but something tells me you'll try anyways...

        •  It's not acceptable (7+ / 0-)
          I've talked to people who don't vote.  They're mostly morons that don't know up from down.  Nice company.

          My grandparents would go out in a hurricane and crawl through mud if that's what they had to do to vote.  I think if I tried to convince them to not vote, they'd spend a good amount of time chewing me out and rightly so.

        •  There are more than two options. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          trashablanca, ezdidit

          I agree that failing to vote is a bankrupt choice.

          It immediately cuts the value of your vote in half.

          In the normal two-party math, a vote taken from 'D' goes to 'R'.  A vote merely taken from 'D'  has half the impact.

          In multi-party math, there isn't a giant difference between sitting home and voting for some "other" party, but there is a huge message difference in several ways:

          1. If, as in 1992, a significant vote goes to a third party with a clear political message, that message will be advanced as major party candidates seek to poach those voters.  Where do you think all of the deficit-cutting fervor came from during Clinton's tenure?  It was an effort to corral Perot voters.
          1.  At the very least, it identifies some number of people willing to vote, and votes that might be won.

          People who don't vote don't matter.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:28:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And that attitude is why we'll lose big in Nov. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jakewaters

            Give me a reason to come out. Give me a reason to vote for the politicians I once believed in.

            Don't dismiss me or people like me who are disillusioned by the process and the bullshit.

            If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
            --@jameskass

            by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:30:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You COULD vote AGAINST them all (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThatsNotFunny, trashablanca, dinotrac

              by writing in "None of the Above".

              That NEEDS to become a viable option, and it will do so only if people actually use it.

              If it's
              Not your body
              Then it's
              Not your choice
              AND it's
              None of your damn business!

              by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:41:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That is better than not voting. (0+ / 0-)

                It's a distinct "I vote for something (or nothing) else", as oppposed to, "Oh, what the heck.  I'll just go along with what everybody else says".

                One is something you can try to win, the other is nothing.
                There's not much upside in trying to pitch your campaign to the lazy.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:04:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Bingo (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThatsNotFunny

              How about some Presedential signing statements that fire up the base tacked on to some bills?  

              They may be viewed inside the White House as small political potatoes but don't you think that during a famine of dissillusionment maybe that starch is enough to nourish our folks to keep the faith?  

              And it frames the discussion to things that democrats want and most importantly, things that democrats and progressives want to talk about.  

              Yes it will upset the nut-sackers and wing-nutty types and yes, it is threatening for administrationers who are crouched in a defensive positions who will have to adopt a new attitude if not a new strategy.  

              Hope they haven't forgotten how to go on offense.  

              Rahm, Gibbs and the beltway boykins  seem to just dump it in from the blue line and start skating backwards.  Hell, even Caribou Barbie could beat that system.

              O, you powers that be, listen to this 'ThatsNotFunny' guy, you need his vote.  

              Give him a reason to go out and feel good that he's voting D, go on, I dare ya.

              "I'll press your flesh, you dimwitted sumbitch! " -Pappy O'Daniel

              by jakewaters on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 10:19:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  But you will be dismissed. (0+ / 0-)

              People who don't bother to vote are not high value targets.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:05:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  People who don't bother to REGISTER are (0+ / 0-)

                not high value targets. I'm registered and can probably be convinced by November. I guess that makes me a Dem-leaning liberal small-i independent, despite never voting for a Republican in my life).

                I'm not lost yet. The party gives up on disillusioned unenthusiastic registered voters like me at their own peril.

                If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
                --@jameskass

                by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:22:13 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  That is not the purpose of this website. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aexia, fcvaguy, trashablanca

          (Almost absurdly and, certainly, quixotically,) we are for More and Better Democrats here, and not necessarily in that order.

          Read the freaking FAQ. Staying home is Republican advocacy. You're on the wrong website if you think abstention is loyal to Dems:

          Daily Kos will be what Daily Kos is, and that oftentimes evolves. I know everyone wants their clearly defined rules, but nothing is that simple.

          This site is CERTAINLY NOT for all Democrats. Joe Lieberman learned that. Blanche Lincoln is about to learn it.

          This site is about more and better Democrats, not necessarily in that order.

          I were you, I would leave and read some more FOXNewsOnline. Then get your ass in gear back here and drive people to the polls!

          I'm sorry to insult a long-time member of this community like you with an HR, but even a newbie like me has more sense than to think it's an option on this website to urge leaving Republicans unopposed anywhere.

          No Quarter for REPukEs!

          TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

          by ezdidit on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:32:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't need to read Fox News Online (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aexia

            I get enough Obama bashing right here on DailyKos.

            If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
            --@jameskass

            by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:34:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That HR was unwarranted. (0+ / 0-)

            If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
            --@jameskass

            by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:37:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Take it up with moderators. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThatsNotFunny

              I really wish you would reconsider in light of some of the principled argument above. Abstention makes no sense. period. ...not if you really are a Democrat...and I can see that you're alienated...but the alienated and disaffected are all the Repukes can count on this cycle.

              TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

              by ezdidit on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 10:43:47 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Please understand: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ezdidit

                I want to vote. I'm just not enthusiastic about it, and I'm not willing to vote for a candidate that has been working against the issues that matter to me. I will not reward bad governance with a vote that they did not earn.

                And truth be told, come November I probably will vote after all. But at this rate it's 50/50.

                As for the HR... Look, I'm not asking for a 4, but removing the HR would be a good-faith gesture in the spirit of healthy debate. Just sayin'. Until expressions of disillusionment with the candidates and the process are expressly forbidden in the FAQ, I think it's a little harsh. The issue of lack of enthusiasm cannot be addressed when the people who lack it are HR'd out of the discussion.

                If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
                --@jameskass

                by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:16:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  removed it earlier when you asked the 1st time. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ThatsNotFunny

                  Where are you? What district? I'm in NY's 9th - Weiner country!

                  imo, the only solution is to give Dems an irrefutable majority. When they see a coalescence of outright leftists socialists, Progressives, Liberals, Moderates and rank & file Labor Democrats backing them up, they will have to be held accountable to better standards moving left.

                  Sestak was a limited win against the DNC, but Halter's run against Lincoln - should Lincoln lose - will be held up to ridicule the DNC as out of step. This is an insurgent campaign season, and I like being called an underdog insurgent!

                  I will NOT be alienated! And in NC, where I'm planning to move, I really have some work cut out for me winning hearts & minds to force Heath Shuler to vote like a Democrat. (Elaine Marshall should win against Burr, but it's no slam dunk at all.)

                  TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

                  by ezdidit on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:49:17 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I thank you for that. (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm registered in NJ-12, represented by Rush Holt. I haven't checked any polling but it's a pretty safe D district.

                    The area is fairly Blue but getting redder by the day. I held my nose and voted for Corzine, but was seriously considering sitting that one out. In the end, I'm glad I didn't even though it wasn't enough to get him into office. He should've never won the primary.

                    We need more like Rep Weiner, for sure. I'd trudge through the snow uphill both ways to vote for a progressive like him!

                    If I wanted to read how much Obama sucks, I'd be on RedState, not DailyKos.
                    --@jameskass

                    by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 12:12:04 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Weiner runs unopposed... (0+ / 0-)

                      He doesn't need any more encouragement...he'll even run for NYC mayor when it suits him. He may even win! He used to talk about his constituents as "the middle class and those struggling to make it."

                      (He'll need a super-long bumper sticker. He's Schumer's protege, so he ought to print it on a cartoon of Schumer's coattails. May even run for the Senate in ten years...God-willing!)

                      Anyway, NJ 12 can use strong Progressive influence in the district, and you're more important than you know!

                      TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

                      by ezdidit on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 12:25:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's My Question To You (15+ / 0-)
      If Republicans take control of the House let's say... who is actually WORSE OFF for that happening... the party insiders you're upset with, or YOU and EVERYONE ELSE who will have to deal with the consequences of all the shit they do for the next hundred years?
    •  Our leaders need confidence that they can win (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Davidsfr, BruinKid, trashablanca, ezdidit

      the next election after what politicking and leading they've done...so you're going to help kick them out when you feel they've not been 'progressive' enough? THAT will instill confidence for sure.

      Too big to fail = too big to exist.

      by Liberaltarianish on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:01:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because This Worked So Well (13+ / 0-)
      In 2000... or 1994... or 1980... or 1968! Keep it up, I'm sure it'll work this time!
      •  Do these people really prefer right-wing (9+ / 0-)

        governance?

        I've lived through Carter, Clinton, and now Obama. It is always the same: They aren't perfect so let's punish them by withholding support. It hasn't resulted in more progressive government yet.

        •  Yes, they do... (9+ / 0-)

          Naderites prefer right wing government, so they can complain without actually having to DO anything.

          DARTH SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
          LANDO REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

          by LordMike on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:11:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let's face it: opposition is fun (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            infojunkie

            Being in a political movement when you're out of power can be exhilarating. Sure, there's anger about the state of things, but when so many people are feeling the same righteous indignation, there's some perverse enthusiasm. Everyone on "your side" can criticize the incumbents and there's very little disagreement, since you all agree the status quo isn't tenable.

            And campaigns are fun. Because everyone can simply put their hopes and project their own personal desires onto a candidate. Everything seems possible, because it's all in the future and all hypothetical.

            Then you win power. And then the coalition frays. Because people forget that "change" means different things to different people. And suddenly big problems -- even ones that aren't our fault -- become our responsibility, and derail other items on the agenda.

            It's the same old story. And it affects both the right and the left. But personally, I wonder if it hurts the left more. It's easy to dislike the status quo, as all liberals/progressives do. It's another thing to agree on what needs to change.

            If liberals need to learn one thing it's to accept that change is a long, hard slog. Neither the halycon days of the New Deal or Great Society were anywhere near as exciting as people make them out to be. And the changes they enacted took the better part of three decades. People here want instant gratification, and seem incapable of accepting that, yes, politicians screw up, but ultimately every political race comes down to two choices.

            (And yes, that's even true in multiparty countries, where you can vote for whoever you like, but then have to accept that it can usually only come down to one of two coalitions, where compromises will have to be made and changes kept limited.)

        •  They also prefer rectal-cranial inversion (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ezdidit

          given their pathetic lack of judgment.

          "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

          by trashablanca on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:24:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Except... (9+ / 0-)

      the message they'll get is that they weren't conservative enough, and they'll go even FARTHER away from progressive values.

      Simply not voting is one of the dumbest things an activist can do.

    •  That's not the message they will get... (10+ / 0-)

      ...in fact, the message will be the opposite... liberals are unreliable voters, so it is pointless to cater to them.  

      You will drive the caucus right.... way right with such a strategy.

      I strongly urge you to reconsider.  If progressives don't and vote, the Democratic party will never cater to progressives again, and the right will take over everything.

      Do you really want to cut off your nose to spite your face?

      DARTH SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
      LANDO REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

      by LordMike on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:06:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  HR'd for Republican subversion! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40, trashablanca, gas28man

      Take it or leave it: Your position is indefensibly arrogant and stupidly wrong.

      Not voting should be hidden, unseen.

      TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

      by ezdidit on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:10:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  if you do that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BruinKid, trashablanca, ezdidit

      they will run to the center, because they will realize that they can't rely on progressives to win.

      People panic too much on this site.

      by thematt523 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:30:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not voting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BruinKid, trashablanca, ezdidit

      Will not send any message except Dems don't care and will live with whatever crap the Republicans do.

      The old cliche about taking the ball and going home is immature at best and stupid at worst.

      Not voting ensures the Republicans another decade of ruining this country.

      But knock yourself out complaining and staying home.

      Just remember - if you do not vote, you have essentially given up your right to complain.

      Republicans will vote even if they hate their candidates. Democrats never know when to get off their high horse and do what's best for the Party.

      Democrats have been screwing this up forever. That's why they are never in power long enough to anything done.

      The older I get, the less I am able to deal with stupid.

    •  I'm sick ... no really, I mean physically sick (7+ / 0-)
      I don't write diaries here. I mostly lurk and then sometimes write comments. I once even got trusted user status - swoon - but I have to tell you, for the past 6 months this site has been making me physically sick. All the little anxiety/nervous disorders I used to suffer have started to return, because of the rhetoric on this site.
      I've been coming to DK for about 3yrs. I used to love coming here and reading about the enthusiasm for our party, and President Obama. I thought that with enough of us fighting, over time we could eventually get the things we were after.
      I phone-banked and canvassed in Iowa and Illinois for President Obama. I was won over by what I naively thought would be his ability to "get things done". And now? Yes, I've been sorely disappointed by many of the same things many of you are disappointed by.  I don't need to list them.
      But now I'm sick. I am SO worried about this "enthusiasm gap", and all the angry declarations of "I'm not voting", that I am losing sleep worrying about what will happen if the GOP gets the majority in one or both houses. And seriously, I get it. I know you're angry. But when I look at the platform of the GOP, and what they are promising to do if they get the majority, it literally makes me shake. I'm scared. So many people have and will write more eloquently about the corporatocracy our government has become. Messing with social security, Medicare, gay rights, climate legislation etc. are at the top of the GOP list of things to wreck havoc with. And the super rich will win.
      So please, for my health's sake and the sake of our democracy, don't stay home. We can't afford it as a nation.

      The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato

      by manneckdesign on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:36:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not this (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BruinKid, trashablanca, ezdidit

      I'm pretty far left Progressive, and I'm as disgusted as anyone else about the kowtowing to the Rethugs, Blue Dogs, and Corporacrats, if not even more so. But I'll still come out and vote in November. I'll be holding my nose as I do, but I'll vote Dem all the way unless I can vote Green without allowing a Rethug win.

      That said, I won't be lifting so much as a finger or giving so much as a penny to the Rethug-Lite Corporacrat B-Team.

      We really need to focus on growing Progressive candidates from the school board on up, and a long-term strategy to re-make and re-brand the Democratic party from the bottom up and the outside in. I'm sick to effing death of being given the "choice" between voting for either the lesser of two evils or the evil of two lessers.

      Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

      by drewfromct on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 09:36:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I will be voting (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, BruinKid, trashablanca, ezdidit, QES

      What's with so many Sarah Palins here? quitters.

    •  You're not sending ANY message (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BruinKid, trashablanca

      You've just rendered yourself irrelevant and invisible.

      De-orangify Congress: Justin Coussoule for Oh-08 http://www.coussouleforcongress.com/

      by anastasia p on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 11:23:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Understand the feelings but ... (0+ / 0-)

      I understand the feelings and it's not easy to advocate not voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

      But I think it's become very plain that the center and right of the democratic party fully take the left for granted.  The democrats haven't done too much for the average Joe in quite some time - you'd have to go back to Johnson.

      Prior to Obama getting elected (and prior to Clinton getting elected) we had a budding progressive movement.  In both cases, the progressive movement was neutered.  I think it's safe to say that many (most?) of the democratic elite hate the left.

      The only way any democrat is going to move to the left and support policies that go against big money is if they feel pressure.  If they know they have our vote in the bag no matter what they do and we forever accept the argument that we should vote for them because they're better than republicans, then we'll never have progressive politics.

      I think we need to take a longer term viewpoint.  In this era of globalization, neither Carter, Clinton, or Obama have actively pursued progressive policies.  

      I'll vote if there's a progressive candidate.  Otherwise I won't.  And I think we need to start working on an alternative to democrats.

      If that kicks me off dailykos, so be it.

      Jim
      commentsongpe.wordpress.com

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