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View Diary: [UPDATED] U.S. Citizen "Ghost Detainee" Accused of Bush Assassination Plot, But ... (127 comments)

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  •  Fox News (none)
    I made myself switch to Fox News .... "a plot to kill the president" ... plotted "in Saudi Arabia ... "MADE IN AMERICA !!!!"-  Shepherd Smith

    THIS is all most people will see:
    "Man Accused of Plotting to Assassinate Bush"

    Okay.  So how does one defend -- not the individual per se -- but the rules of law and basic decency that have been abridged in this case?  The word frame is way overused. But, how do we frame this?

    Susan in Port Angeles (my cat)

    by SusanHu on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 12:11:17 PM PST

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    •  The judges in the Eastern District... (none)
      ...are actually not the worst on the planet.  Yes, they have a very, very fast system, and they're answerable to the ultraconservative Fourth Circuit, but the judge handling the Moussaoui case has issued some pretty enlightened rulings.

      I don't know of any U.S. district judge who would look favorably on questions of torture, and I also don't see how the government could sidestep the issue if it seeks to admit evidence obtained while the defendant was under extreme rendition.  Fourth and Fifth Amendment law are pretty damn specific on these points, and the evidence is inadmissible.

      Piss off Frank Luntz: don't use Republican issue frames like "Social Security crisis."

      by DC Pol Sci on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 12:40:01 PM PST

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    •  How about this? (none)
      "A man tortured in Saudi Arabia will admit to anything."  More at 11...

      Alternate state, a blog about different choices, globally and locally.

      by zenbowl on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 01:37:33 PM PST

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    •  Just keep repeating: (none)
      Torture doesn't work--even if you like the idea, it just doesn't do the job.  

      Why?  Most people under torture will say anything to make it stop.  The only ones who won't are those who believe that martyrdom is a good thing for them, and so aren't afraid to die, even painfully.  Thus, we simply can't get good intelligence about terrorist plots by torturing people.  Much better to use the FBI methods that DO result in good information, and are not in violation of human rights.

      The Sri Lankan torture expert who says it can be effective in saving lives was dealing with Tamils, who aren't Muslim and aren't jihadists.  

      If you're going in the wrong direction and you stay the course, where, exactly, do you wind up?

      by Mimikatz on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 03:09:32 PM PST

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