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View Diary: Recent DOE Break-Through with Hydrogen Fuel Cells, should make them Affordable (275 comments)

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  •  you need a lot of electricity to produce (0+ / 0-)

    the hydrogren, so you'll need more and more power plants.
    and no, you won't get nearly enough from bio mass  

    •  That's not the issue (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      yuriwho, Sparhawk, Odysseus

      Seriously you could simply go 300 miles off shore, and run windmills and use electrolysis to make hydrogen (simply running electricity through salt water makes Hydrogen).

      The issue with hydrogen is and continues to be storage. Hydrogen molecules (H2) as a gas are small and very corrosive, It's hard to store hydrogen unless you freeze it, but that takes lots of energy, and requires occasional venting as some of the liquid hydrogen warms up (yeah that's very dangerous).  We don't need more research on hydrogen fuel sells, or production, we need more money spent on better storage. The powers to be know this and direct federal research money to places we don't need it, so they can claim they are looking, but they know the hydro carbon industry isn't threatened.

      -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

      by dopper0189 on Sun Apr 24, 2011 at 09:40:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hmmm... (0+ / 0-)

        Two statements of yours trouble me:

        "(simply running electricity through salt water makes Hydrogen)"

        You end up with serious corrosion problems from all that salt.

        "Hydrogen molecules (H2) as a gas are small and very corrosive"

        I don't think that corrosiveness is the issue; we handle far more corrosive materials all the time. It's true that the small size of hydrogen molecules makes it easier for them to penetrate a number of materials, but I can't imagine that this problem cannot be solved with a thin but tight (on the molecular level) coating. Can you direct me to a source on this problem?

        •  Sorry for the late reply (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus

          1) Conductive ceramics can handle the salt corrosion, actually a thin layer of industrial diamond coating can do it also, or nickel alloys.

          2) As for the corrosion issue it's more serious than you think. Remember acids are basically a proton donating molecule. Protons donations are basically charged hydrogen atoms. Hydrogen gas is basically an acid waiting to happen if it get's any source of heat, or friction. As for a thick layer on the molecular level for storage, diatomic hydrogen is simply the smallest molecule possible. You would need to serious compress any other molecule in order to make the spaces small enough to prevent diatomic hydrogen from escaping. Or you need to liquefy hydrogen.

          Wikipedia is a great first step for these types of issue.

          The problems theoretically are solvable but the research money hasn't been placed there (yet)

          BTW I'm a chemical engineer and I interned at a department of energy program many, many moons ago.

          -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

          by dopper0189 on Sun Apr 24, 2011 at 11:45:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  you can use Solar and Wind (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Egalitare

      to power Electrolysis.


      Got Time?
      Take ten, to find something else informative and fun to read. Thx.

      by jamess on Sun Apr 24, 2011 at 10:01:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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