Bush: Health Problems? Stroke?

Look first of all, I'm not trying to send everyone off into Oliver Stone land, so I'd love a smackdown from a doctor or someone who actually works with stroke victims to tell me this theory is absurd, but...

I've worked doing medical documentaries for 14 years.   I've done several shows on stroke victims, and something kept bothering me about Bush last night.  Then I got a call this morning from another medical producer.  First thing he says is:  Bush has had a stroke.  And it hit me, that's exactly what I saw.  Check Bush's mouth, where the spittle was coming out.  It's slightly droopy.  If you go back and look at video from his earlier days, his mouth isn't drooping, that side of his face is far more animated.  It's very subtle but it's there.

Now if you look at video from the FIRST debate, there is no droop.  The right side of his face is pretty animated.  Why?  The thing on his back.  Listen, I've put wireless mics and wireless IFBs (2 way transceivers) on talent for years.  They're the size of credit cards now.  That wasn't a transceiver on Bush's back.  It was some kind of medical device.  He wasn't wearing it last night, and that's why he was forcing himself to stand with such a rigid expression.  The best he could muster.  

Why would he have lost so much of his verbal capacity in the last 4 years?

Think about the choking episode a few years ago.  Who witnessed it?  That's all we got.

Whddya think?

•  Well, he has refused to take a physical before

  the election.  Because of a stroke? Who knows?

  by LionelEHutz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:28:48 AM PDT

  •  Recommend

    I would REALLY like to see these questions being asked in the media.

    THEY SHOULD BE ASKED.

    And ANSWERED.

    by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:52:35 AM PDT

    •  If he had a stroke, it would be after August 2003

      Bush had his last physicial in August 2003, and his doctors gave him a clean bill of health and didn't mention a stroke.  So, if Bush has had a stroke, it would have been after August 2003. (unless the doctors were lying back then).

      by pontificator on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:43:34 AM PDT

      •  Kennedy's doctors lied

        And did so repeatedly, about his various conditions. We only learned of the true extent of JFK's illnesses a year or two ago.

        So Bush's doctors may well have lied, too.

        by eugene on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:02:14 AM PDT

        •  That's why he crashed his bike!

          And maybe that's why he can't jog anymore. Too much stress, too many PB&J sandwiches, too much exercise and he finally had a stroke.

          But what kind of medical device would make the other half of his face work? That seems weird to me, but I'm not a doctor so I don't know what the newest technologies are.

          by existenz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:07:37 AM PDT

          •  Electric muscle stimulator?

            Like the electric abdominal exerciser? You know the ones. You put em on your belly and they shock your muscles and they contract and it's supposedly like working out.

            So what if that thing on his back works on the same principle. It has wires going to the base of his neck maybe, his back, maybe his torso and it emits little micro shocks to his muscles to keep him from going limp on one side.

            Maybe one to his neck keeps his facial muscles taught.

            Remember in the second debate how he kept fiddling inside his coat? Maybe the one to his torso was zinging him too hard or it came undone and he had to replace it.

            The first and second debates he seemed like he was having trouble staying upright. The first one he had a white knuckle grip on the podium. He was possibly in pain from from all the electrical stimulation.

            The second debate he couldn't stand completely upright. I couldn't either If I was wired up with a device which was giving me continuous, high frquency, low intensity micro-shocks all over my upper body.

            And get this: maybe they had to dope him up a little so the pain and discomfort wouldn't be overwhelming but the dope made him eratic and goofy (I mean more than usual).

            What do think about that?

            by Manix on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 03:57:18 PM PDT

      •  Refused his physical...

        If you'll recall a week or two ago, the White House announced that Bush would forego his physical until after this year's election was over.

        Also, you have to take into account the severe amount of drinking and the rumors about illegal drug use well into his middle ages.

        Could he be suffering the lasting effect of such activity? Could his liver have begun to rot away? Could the blow had destroyed his circulatory system?

        These are questions we will not know the answer to as long as Bush refuses to have a regular check-up!

        by Scoopster on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:06:53 AM PDT

        •  cocaine

          Cocaine doesn't go away...you can have health effects popping up years and years later, or within seconds of the first-ever try. Remember Len Bias?

          by garth on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:37:30 AM PDT

          •  Len Bias

            Jeez, how old ARE you?

            by plunkitt on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:03:22 PM PDT

          •  Go Terps!

            Len Bias was the MAN!

            by Terp on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:05:30 PM PDT

        •  Refusal to take physical?

          If anyone can find link about Bush refusing to take his physical I would like that. I hadn't heard that. I knew he didn't take his last physical in the National Guard but I hadn't read that he'd recently refused one and since there's been so many stories about that lately that's all I can find when I search. So if anyone knows of any recent news reports I could they please share with the class?

          by sereneonline on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:14:07 PM PDT

          •  Here's a Link for Ya

            Bush postpones his physical, from cnn.com. You have to scroll about 3/4 of the way through the transcript, but I linked a Google-cached page that should highlight the relevant text automatically. Note that Clinton did not postpone his exam during the election season, though he had his way earlier (May, I think).

            From the transcript:

            A White House spokesman says President Bush remains in great shape. But his busy schedule and the presidential campaign means his annual physical, usually conducted in August, will have to wait until after the election.
            

            by Juppon Gatana on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:57:19 PM PDT

        •  meds

          psychotrophics have similar effects.  anti anxiety, anti depressant, anti psychotics.  patients drool.  he looke kinda inappropriately "happy" in d3, hyper in d2, & incoherent & angry in d1.

          i say it's meds.

          by x on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:43:57 PM PDT

  •  it's plausible

    i speculate that the president was wearing a heart monitor under his jacket, and that would fit the stroke theory.

    i've had to wear a heart monitor once, and basically you wear a harness under your clothes, and it's attached to a bunch of wires on your chest and sides, and in the back is a little monitoring device that tracks your heartbeat.  that could account for the buldge in his jacket.  normally the device is worn at hip level, but then you've have an obvious buldge in the front.  a heart monitor's harness is pretty flexible and allows you to mount the device anywhere above your waist.

    yea, that would fit if he had a stroke.
    

    by anna on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:54:58 AM PDT

    •  It's called a Holter Monitor

      But I think it' used for a very limited amount of time and you can wear it on the belly.

      Could also be some degenerative disease early on..maybe Lou Gherig's

      by NorCalJim on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:20:17 AM PDT

      •  holter monitors

        are much smaller; least ones I've seen. and I've only known them to be used for diagnostics; to get a record of heart rhythms over periods of up to ten days, tho usually less.

        unless this is a holter monitor from the buggy & horse days

        by Miss Devore on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:10:58 AM PDT

        •  had one last month

          It looked like the right size for a holter monitor. There would certainly be lots of wires, but mine were all in the front, and I wore the box thang connected to my belt. Why would it be in the middle of the back? Seems odd, especially since it's potentially so much more visible. And it seems a rather stupid time to be monitoring his heart, given how unusual the stress would be from his normal day, given that he was in a live televised debate.  It's not like they'd be getting normal/average day readings, unless it was something that people were using to monitor him live in case something happened. Doesn't sound likely either.

          by Hollywood Liberal on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:52:26 AM PDT

          •  agreed... but what about this?

            My partner just wore one a few months ago and it was the same size.  HOWEVER, I think it was widely reported that Bush and Kerry were both wearing bullet proof vests.  Such a vest would limit where the monitor could be placed, wouldn't it?

            by Lipstick Liberal on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:58:59 AM PDT

            •  who knows

              It's actually been denied that he wore a bulletproof vest, which actually may not necessarily mean he wasn't wearing one.

              I'm still leaning towards back brace.

              Some of the pictures, like the one in the truck, makes me think he just has a weirdly shaped back with a protruding spine. But that doesn't explain the pics with the long wire-like bulge and the very boxy bulge.

              I'm flummoxed. To me, this is getting to be a bit of mental masturbation, since we shall probably never know, although I like that Letterman did his top 10 on this last night. That doesn't help Bush's credibility. But he used the wrong picture.

              by Hollywood Liberal on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:05:34 AM PDT

              •  to be frank

                i was only speculating on what it could have been if he indeed had a stroke.  

                personally i don't think he's had one at all.  my belief is that either it was a kevlar vest or perhaps a secondary microphone in case the one on the lectern cut out.  logic might lead me to conclude that the same could be said of kerry - probably wearing a vest under that suit and possible a secondary microphone.

                in others words, i'm not sure there's any there there.  and i'd rather focus on bush's many miserable failures as a CinC.  

                that being said, i still want to know why he couldn't complete his annual physical when he was on vacation in august.

                by anna on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:03:18 AM PDT

                •  if it was a vest or a mic

                  then the Bush campaign would dispel these rumors by telling us. But seriously -- why would Bush need a kevlar vest for a presidential debate? That venue is gonna be one of the most well-protected places in the world. Plus, if they have high-tech kevlar vests that are that small and that thin, they need to be sending those to Iraq instead of these huge bulky ones everyone else uses.

                  by existenz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:11:49 AM PDT

                  •  A holter can be worn any time. I can't believe he

                    would have it on the night on the debate.  I do sort of like the earpiece theory.

                    Seriously, I noticed the slight droop of his mouth too.  Also some of the little tics and blinks.  Still wonder about psychotropic drugs...

                    by CalDoc on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 02:50:04 PM PDT

              •  cartoon

                Perhaps this cartoon has the explanation.

                To quote Hunter: IT WAS ROVE!

                by drewthaler on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:07:31 PM PDT

          •  i'm a monitor tech

            we hook people up to heart monitors every day.  yes, it's the size & shape of a holter monitor, & it doesn't matter where the box is, but the patient has to be within range of the antennae.

            i have also worked with psych patients, & the drool & face droop could be a side efect of psych meds.

            also, stroke patients, depending on the site of the bleed, can either not speak coherently or have a one side paralysis.

            bush seems to have both, which leads me to assess that he is on psych meds.

            by x on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:55:24 PM PDT

        •  Maybe It A Bible

          Maybe he demanded they tape a bible to his back, a secret message to the true believers-who are enjoying our confusion.  Wait, the Mothership is here, rejoice!

          by David in Burbank on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:30:43 AM PDT

    •  Some sort of custom neuromuscular stimulator?

      How would this look under a suit? Wearable neuromuscular simulation device or this.

      by PitterPatter on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:13:34 AM PDT

      •  back problem

        It's possible.  He could have severely injured his back with one of these falls off his bicycle, and so might need such a device.

        by LIsoundview on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:22:22 AM PDT

      •  don't think stroke- but definitely something!

        Since the second debate I've been sure something is wrong with him. Neuromuscular/degenerative in nature I think. Parkinsons. Lou Gherigs. Muscular Dystrophy.

        Look, the pretzel thing never did fly with me. I can't remember the exact problems with the story now, but at the time I remember some discussion in the medical community that it didn't add up. Something about the way he said he recovered from the choking, I think. But I never could figure out why they were lying. What thing they were trying to cover up. I never saw it as a grand scheme, I just knew that the story had been altered. I think perhaps the core is true. He choked on a pretzel. It was the details that were implausable if not down right possible from a medical standpoint.

        (I'm not a M.D. I did medical research in my former life.)

        Anyway, I didn't know he hadn't taken his physical, but I've been walking around my house for days not saying that there's something seriously wrong with Bush. My family rolls their eyes at me but none of them have really watched the debates.

        I'm glad someone finally said something about it! I hadn't considered a stroke and I still don't think that's the most likely cause of what we're witnessing, but his description was dead on. That's exactly what I see. I saw the spittle. It was plain. Bush is having problems! It's actually somewhat sad, but it does need to be addressed. The press had to have seen what we see.

        And if you didn't notice it before and have any of the debates taped or TiVo'd watch again. It's as plain on the nose on your face. The man is falling apart before our very eyes!

        by sereneonline on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:34:00 AM PDT

        •  The reported behavior of his dogs

          was one reason the pretzel story did not ring true.  Bush said that when he came to the dogs were sitting where they were when he passed out, staring at him.  Unless his dogs are as stupid as he is that isn't normal canine behavior, they'd be all over him panicking, pacing, licking etc.  

          by Thistime on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:44:12 AM PDT

          •  ...when he came to...

            That's whats wrong with the story! Right? Imagine you are by yourself eating pretzels, zuchinni, pizza, cookies... whatever! Now suddenly the food's been sucked in the wrong way. You can't breathe because there's an obstruction. You start to panic. You look around and the only other being there is a dog that is not certified in CPR and probably couldn't reach high enough to do the Heimlich anyway. There's nobody there to dislodge the obstruction so after some moments you begin to lose consciousness.

            Then... you wake up? How? How are you breathing? How did the "pretzel" become disloged? From a dog's stares? Malarky, as my father would say! It's pure, unadulterated bullshit is what it is.
            

            by sereneonline on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:23:41 PM PDT

            •  This actually

              is not bullshit, it's a fairly common scenario that is not well understood and is currently called "vasovagal syncope, situational type." It seems to happen when stretch receptors are triggered- in the lung, the bladder, the bowel, etc. "Post-tussive" (after-coughing) syncope is a common subtype. The victim passes out because a vascular reflex is triggered (the utility of this is unknown) and true to the definition of syncope, the patient falls down and regains consciousness wihin several seconds. His airway was not necessarily fully obstructed.  

              by spitonmars on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:33:23 PM PDT

              •  I have experience with vasovagal syncope

                and it is as described. I would simply begin to caugh and then pass out. I'd be out for a short period of time (10-30 seconds)and the condition was linked eventually to a case of bronchitis. This condition allowed me to spend New Year's eve, 2003 in the Emergency Room of a Concord, NH hospital. (Great treatment, attentive staff, would reccommend under different circumstances). Condition lasted about three weeks during which I could not drive and scared my wife half to death every time I blacked out. I would know nothing of the event when it took place. I was never standing when an event happened and most took place in bed. Bush could easily have had such an occurance and maintained a schedule that would have kept him isolated enough for no one except immediate intimates to know. This does not explain the physiological conditions described by some who watched Bush during the debates.

                by Steve in Philly on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:11:18 PM PDT

          •  dogs come in all kinds of stupid

            ...but maybe his dogs really don't like him much.

            by Kaleja on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 03:54:53 PM PDT

          •  animal behavior

            I think you've seen too many Lassie movies, but I do agree the dogs wouldn't have been sitting there staring at him -- they would have been tearing into his pretzel bag.

            by larala on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 05:04:03 PM PDT

            •  Not Lassie, real life with dogs.

              But maybe his dogs don't care about him.  

              by Thistime on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 05:57:42 AM PDT

          •  Fainted in front of my dog once

            (who loves me, but I really think it was instinctual) his response was just as you say, he was agitated and licking my face when I surfaced).  When described to my physician she named vasovagal syncope as the cause for my unconsciousness.

            Also, you don't really become immediately focused upon awakening, it took me a couple minutes to realize I was bleeding from the bridge of my nose (lots, and it hurt, later).  IF the dogs weren't paying any attention to him, he wouldn't likely have even registered their presence across the room.
            

            by RagingBQ on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:34:34 PM PDT

          •  a dog

            would've gone apeshit.

            my dog used to wake me up if i stopped breathing.

            a faithful dog  would've not just been sittig there looking befuddled.  he'd be all about saving you.

            even a pet cat would freak out.

            by x on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:05:40 PM PDT

        •  Seizures?

          My mother-in-law volunteered for decades with school kids with disabilities.  Shortly after the "pretzel" incident, she began saying that a seizure of some kind might explain what happened -- and that medication to control seizures might explain Dubya's strange affect.

          I pooh-poohed that, but then saw color picture of
          the man in the New York Times, perhaps a day or two later.  He had an unbelievable shiner -- the sort of black and blue job that comes from a severe blow.  

          If you've ever been in the White House, one of the first things you notice is that the furnishings and rugs didn't come from Value Village in Anacostia.  No way could he have tumbled off a couch and got that kind of bruising.  At a minimum (assuming the cover story has any truth) he fell in a dead weight, probably from a standing position.  I  began to think that maybe Sue had a point.

          She's returned to this theory subsequently, every time Dubya falls.  There might be something to it.

          by blaneyboy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:00:29 PM PDT

          •  anti siezure meds

            as a longtime heavy drinking alcoholic, w may have developed a seizure disorder, which could have put him on anti-siezure meds,

            however, i think that his physical & behavioural  presentation suggests he is on psych meds.  

            he may still have siezures as a result of alcohol abuse, but the flaccidity, goofy chuckles, & drool suggest mood/psych drugs to me.  he could be on both anti seizure and anti psychotics meds.

            by x on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:16:12 PM PDT

    •  No stroke

      Look, we have a lot of work to do in the next three weeks. This is pointless speculation. I'm going to lay out what I saw and I hope someone will believe me and spend time on more fruitful activities. I am in training to be a neurologist.

      I noticed the "droop" immediately. But when I looked closely on my admittedly poor-quality TV, I think that Bush had some sort of zit near the left side of his mouth. His baseline smirk on the right just made this pseduo-droop look even more pronounced.

      A facial droop does not mean stroke. It could also be facial nerve paralysis, AKA Bell's palsy. From what I could see, Bush had neither.

      There was nothing wrong with the muscles in his forehead, his eye was not droopy, the lines that run from the nose to the corner of the mouth (nasolabial folds) were symmetric.

       I've seen plenty of strokes and Bell's palsy, and from a distance, this looked like neither.

      Bush's articulation problems are new but not that new- he presented himself as an idiot in 2000 also. But he didn't slur his speech last night and he certainly didn't speak like an aphasic. I can't explain the drool but I know when I'm talking forcefully I do on occasion let some spittle fly. I have never had a stroke. Nor do I plan to.

      If he were weak enough to require a brace to keep him upright, causing a rectangular bulge in his jacket, it would have been painfully clear. He would have needed a wheelchair to come out on stage.

      A Holter monitor is a diagnostic instrument and I doubt any presidential candidate would undergo any sort of medical testing during a nationally televised appearance.

      I think this is a waste of time.

      Email Sinclair advertisers or talk shit about their stock in financial chat rooms. Get in touch with the media about Nathan Sproul. Convince your friends and family to volunteer with ACT. Let's concentrate not on whether Bush had a stroke, but on causing him a stroke when he sees the returns on Nov 2. Him and Cheney. And Rove too. And Ashcroft. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, Feith, Scalia, DeLay...

      by spitonmars on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:15:57 AM PDT

      •  Agreed

        Definitely not a stroke for all of the above reasons.  A stroke would not have paralyzed only a small section of his face.  While some stroke victims could look similar, this is usually because of Months of recovery superimposed on the original stroke (My Dad gets a similar corner droop when he stays up too late, but originally his face looked like the classis acute stroke victims.  So I do not think he had a stroke between the 2 debates.

        But answer me this:

        COULD THIS HAVE BEEN FROM A LITTLE TOO MUCH BOTOX ONE ONE SIDE???????

        The irony would be delicious.

        by Dr Dive on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:48:38 AM PDT

        •  polio

          
          Former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien had a droopy distortion on the left side of his mouth through his entire political career. But it came from a run-in with Polio as a child.

          So while stroke and palsy might not be able to cause this kind of localized muscle problem,  polio apparently can.

          so it could be something medical.

          by Sarkasba on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:19:25 PM PDT

    •  Clearly, it was a device,

      which diverts some energy from the brain to muscle restoration in the cheek. Hence his crappy performance in the debates.

      by Doug in SF on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:27:30 PM PDT

    •  Check out this diary/pic -- wearable defibrillator

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/14/232541/20

      by Em on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:46:11 PM PDT

  •  I'm concerned about this

    The droop is slight but seemed real. In fairness, Bush has had a tendency to be a little lopsided at times in the past, but I've never seen him quite this bad.

    On its own it's not very compelling. But when you combine it with the missed physical, and you start to wonder.

    What possible reason is there for him to skip a physical? We're talking about the vacation president here. He surely could spare half a day to do that, especially since he'd want to be in top shape for the stress of campaigning.

    It's nothing more than a hunch at this point, but I think Bush really might have had a stroke and his handlers are covering it up. Someone from the press corps should be able to answer this: When was the last time anyone saw Bush jogging or biking? Kerry went biking just this past Tuesday. But I can't remember the last time I heard a mention of a Bush jog.

    by drewthaler on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:20:42 AM PDT

    •  Woodrow Wilson's Strokes

      The Woodrow Wilson campaign and White House hid from the public the fact that he had had a minor stroke as president of Princeton University, before he started his political career.  The Wilson White House later hid from the public the seriousness of his medical condition after his major stroke in 1919.  (In fact, for the last 1 1/2 years of his presidency, it was basically Mrs. Wilson who was making the decisions for the country.)

      by lysias on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:31:32 AM PDT

      •  yes this is true

        and JFK hid a lot of his health problems as well, as did FDR. And Reagan--let's not get started. It would seem to be more difficult these days IF the press actually wanted to investigate, though. If they didn't, something like that could be pulled off...

        But presidents HAVE been somewhat more forthcoming about their health recently. And we know more than we really want to about Kerry's prostate and Cheney's heart.

        If Bush had some sort of serious and obvious health condition, the better route would be to admit to something, but perhaps minimize the seriousness. So I'll conclude that if he has a health problem (and it wouldn't surprise me if he did), it's probably nonserious enough that it can be masked for now.

        by JMS on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:42:43 AM PDT

        •  hehehe... BushCo. admit to something?

          Sorry but the possibility of them admitting anything, anything at all seems less plausible to me than the idea that he had a stroke.

          by princemyshkin on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:48:25 AM PDT

      •  Edith Galt Wilson

        The idea that Edith Galt Wilson was the de facto President of the United States during the last year of the Wilson administration is a gross overstatement.

        What she really was is what we would call today a Chief of Staff.  She essentially set the agenda and decided who got to see the President that day, if anyone.  Wilson wasn't a vegetable, he was able (on good days) to listen to his Cabinet officers and express his opinion on their activities.

        The Cabinet officers pretty much ran their own departments during Wilson's infirmary.  Edith Galt Wilson's role was to 1) hide the whole thing from the public 2) care for the president's health and 3) decide if the president was well enough to see people and  if so, who got to see him.

        by LeftCoastTimm on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:28:35 AM PDT

      •  Woodrow Wilson's Strokes

        I've read the stress of dragging us into WWI was at least a cause of Wilson's declining health....

        by sendtoscott on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:19:22 AM PDT

    •  Good point

      He does look like he's packed on a few pounds.

      by bumblebums on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:48:33 AM PDT

    •  He's always had the droop

      See this pic.

      by Utah for Dean on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:53:31 AM PDT

      •  That's the one I was looking for!

        

        by bumblebums on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:23:15 AM PDT

        •  his dads face droops to a side too

          but bush has never had the droop in the manner hes exhibited the past few weeks.  notice how the usual smirk, and his dads droop are normal looking.  then compare that with the fact that bush has to reset his jaw constantly in the debates.  the droop isn't normal and he probably doesn't realize hes doing it.  i think thats why hes always nodding at someone in the crowd, acknowleding a signal to tighten up his appearance.  and last nnight he looked medicated.  

          but maybe we all are jumping to conclusions, but even so, its a good break from the business as usual model.

          by thebloviator on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:53:48 AM PDT

        •  But was this PRE-

          or POST-cocaine?

          by Randomfactor on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:59:43 PM PDT

        •  Geeesh

          
          You're right,  maybe I stand corrected on this stroke stuff.  This picture clearly shows a guy whose left side facial muscles are not as symmetrically as strong as his right side.

          heynewt

          by heynewt on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 02:00:40 PM PDT

          •  Nothing wrong with his face muscles

            His face, like everyone's, is asymmetrical. The left side of Dubya's mouth frowns. Ironic, when you think of it.

            by bumblebums on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 02:25:49 PM PDT

        •  No stroke, just the smirk...

          Arrested emotional development...he looks the same way today. Actually seemed to get in some Jeff Spicolli moves after each answer in the second debate...was most disconcerting.

          by drgardner on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:51:47 PM PDT

    •  and you would think

      that if the mystery bulge was some sort of prompter, then it would have been removed after the first debate.  that it seems to appear both in debates two and three (only saw a photo from three in passing, didn't check the source) would point to the need for it.  in other words, in light of speculation about the bulge, remove it and end the speculation.

      but maybe they have no choice to put whatever it is under his jacket, maybe it is indeed health related.

      by johnny71 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:28:42 AM PDT

    •  Dubya doesn't jog any more

      His knees are trashed.  (He used to jog to relieve stress, and the Presidency is a very stressful job.  He wore his knees out.)

      He now bikes instead of jogs.  (Remember the falling off his bike incident?)  He went biking the day of the first debate, so he's still doing it.  

      He does look like he's gained a lot of weight lately, but I think it's just what naturally happens when you can't exercise as much as you used to.  

      by randym77 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:43:36 AM PDT

    •  All Sociopaths

      All sociopaths have assymetrical faces. Bush has the crooked smirk and his left eye is much higher on his face than his right eye. Make what you will of it.
      

      by BrooklynBoy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:17:50 PM PDT

  •  Debate pictures

    

    by Omar on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:28:24 AM PDT

    •  Argh!

      Big pictures make screen render poorly!  Make Roman scroll to read comments!  Roman no like!

      by romantotale on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:33:04 AM PDT

      •  What browser are you using caveperson?

        Looks fine on Safari.  

        The picture is actually 6 images and the poster's mistake was probably not adding carriage returns.  Preview wouldn't have helped them if they weren't using your browser.  

        by smilodon on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:18:51 AM PDT

        •  Just IE

          The pictures look fine.  It's just that they stretch the screen too far on the right side of the page, so I have to scroll over to read the ends of lines.  Not a techie, so I don't really know the technical terms, but I think you understand what I mean.

          by romantotale on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:33:32 AM PDT

          •  I understand

            Just trying to add an explanation and a solution.  

            Pictures are on three lines in Safari and two lines in Netscape so it's less of a problem.  We'll probably never have uniform java code standards so this type of thing can always be a problem.  

            This particular problem can be solved in the future by people placing blank lines between pictures.  

            by smilodon on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:46:36 AM PDT

            •  *shrug*

              Fair enough.  Since I'm not a techie, I just use whatever the company gives me.  I have a tendency to forget that there are other browsers out there.  And I know nothing about Java Code standards, so I'll trust you on that one.

              by romantotale on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:57:02 AM PDT

        •  I don't think it's the browser

          It's your display settings.  It depends on your monitor size, video card, text size, and what resolution you have your display set to.  People using large screens and large font sizes will have to scroll sideways sooner than people with smaller screens and font sizes.  

          by randym77 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:37:29 AM PDT

          •  You're right

            The pictures wrap fine on my IE (Mac).  

            I still think it would be more fool proof to put carriage returns between multiple pictures than to expect them to wrap appropriately on everyone's computer.  

            I yeild to a higher authority.

            by smilodon on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:56:59 AM PDT

        •  Looks fine to me..

          I'm using FireFox 1.0 beta, and the pictures are side-by-side, four on the first line and two on the second.

          If you're using IE, that's more than likely the problem. IE is dog shit.

          by Scoopster on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 11:42:17 AM PDT

    •  ACK!

      Your big horizontal pic has ruined my reading experience!  Too much scrolling!

      by Blackwaterside on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:55:36 AM PDT

    •  yeah but

      Sure it breaks the screen. That's bad. But it lines up with the $10 "Bush Liar T-Shirt" ad. And that's too damn funny...

      by KevStar on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:16:14 AM PDT

    •  I'm tempted...

      To super-troll rate the picture just to get it off the screen, not because it's trolling. It's completely messed up the thread.

      Can your mojo take a few 0s? Take one for us! If you really have a problem, I'll change the rating.

      by DynomiteUVA on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:21:35 AM PDT

      •  it would be good to change that zero

        definitely not a troll. Incidentally, I use Netscape 7.1, and I have my desktop set to high resolution and small fonts, and those pictures sure didn't cause me any problem.

        by Timaeus on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:19:19 PM PDT

      •  Please do

        Reading the thread's a pain in the arse.

        by digdugboy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 03:01:40 PM PDT

      •  People just need to buy Macs

        Get a real computer, and it will all just work fine. Really. You'll actually start to like your computer.

         

        by drgardner on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:47:51 PM PDT

    •  I'm not a doctor,

      And I sincerely don't play one on TV, or in my real life, at that.

      But could this be developed by association with Dick?  

      by changingamerica on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:59:06 AM PDT

  •  How about this?

    Shoulder supports in patients with hypotonicity following stroke. Granted, the research is in Australia (Monash U, their version of MIT) The paper basically looks at the use of shoulder supports in stroke patients whose muscles have gone slack because of a stroke. The idea is that the sling will both provide support and prevent pain. (The results were inconclusive.) Names for those shoulder supports include: Harris hemisling, Bobath sling, Hook-hemi harness, Cavalier support

    Here's detailed Google answer on strokes and shoulder slings.

    by PitterPatter on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:49:46 AM PDT

  •  stroke?

    If I had to bet, I'd go with neursyphilis.  His facial problems have been coming on for a long time, not suddenly as you'd expect from a stroke.  There's definitely something funny about his 7th cranial nerve.

    by MaskedMarauder on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 04:15:53 PM PDT

•  Run with it.

  That is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I noticed his mouth drooping.

  "He's had a stroke. No wonder they didn't want him to take a physical."

  by Maryscott OConnor on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:29:53 AM PDT

  •  Time for Dr. Dean to make a public announcement

    He should step up and mention his heart-felt concern for the President, and offer to give him a physical anyplace and anytime.

    by Scott in Montreal on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:37:21 AM PDT

    •  I Doubt Bush'll Accept...

      I don't think the Republicans want Dean to give Bush a physical.  After all, would we want Frist to give Kerry a physical???
      

      by westcornersville on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:26:45 AM PDT

      •  oh, Dean could give him a physical, alright...

        Anyone remember the bat?

        by watt on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:46:52 AM PDT

      •  Oooh, what a beautiful evil thought.

        Dean might not have to give a physical.  Dean probably has a pretty good guess of what drugs Bush is taking, what they cost, and so forth.  I could imagine if it were Dean in the debate, in some exchange about prescription drugs, just working in something about how <name of drug> was so much more expensive in the US than in Canada.  Bush would completely blow a fuse and the WH spinners would have no way to explain what had happened, without giving away the game.

        by clyde on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:06:38 AM PDT

        •  I Have An Idea

          Does anyone KNOW Dr. Dean?  Or at least on speaking terms with him?

          Because I believe Dean, being the true patriot he is AND having steel cajones, would tell us his best guess.

          We DESPERATELY need to know.  Because when Kerry wins I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL ALLOW HIM TO TAKE OFFICE WITHOUT A FIGHT..  I have believed this from the start.

          We need to have Dean in our corner on this.  Now.

          Now.  And if Dr. Dean doesn't know, you can damn well better believe he would know specialists who would.

          We are not asking for a diagnosis, we are asking for information to guide us.  We seriously, desperately need to know.

          by mattman on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:43:12 AM PDT

          •  There're ethical issues here

            A physician shouldn't diagnose without examining a patient. And once there's an examination there are confidentiality issues.

            by Carl Nyberg on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:15:13 PM PDT

            •  Not Asking For A Diagnosis

              asking for information, help and guidance.

              Where is the ethics of those covering up for this outrage?  Lives are on the line.

              We need help.

              by mattman on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 03:47:51 PM PDT

      •  Frist would...

        just kill his cat.

        by snookybeh on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:19:22 AM PDT

•  I don't know about the stroke

  BU I absolutely noticed his mouth. I kept getting distracted by it, but I told myself that was simply because I don't like him. I didn't think anyone else would notice.

  by silverbax on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:33:05 AM PDT

  •  No, everyone at our party

    Noticed the mouth and the spit . . .

    The party was well attended by medical doctors and they said (in jest and raggin on Bush of course) that his face looked like he had had a stroke.

    Gosh - I'm kind of freaking out from anxiety about all this.  This administration is just so weird and secretive and incompetant.

    I keep getting these bad vibed (hair up on the back on my neck) that something really bad is about to happen.  

    by dbratl on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:42:06 AM PDT

    •  Eisenhower had a strong while in office...

      http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x34cva_t.htm

      One thing to keep in mind is that, although presidents theoretically get the best health care in the world, history shows that this sometimes is not true because of the secrecy that surrounds any presidential health problem, "for the good of the country."  Wilson was completely incapacited while his wife ran things supposedly.  And what about Reagan?  He was clearly disabled by memory loss and confusion by his second term if not before.

      by Boston Boomer on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:52:57 AM PDT

      •  Sorry, I meant Eisenhower had a stroke.

        Not enough sleep last night.

        by Boston Boomer on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:53:45 AM PDT

        •  Woodrow Wilson

          had a PARALYTIC stroke, and the country didn't find out about it until he was out of office. JFK had crippling back problems, but nobody even had a clue. FDR was in a wheelchair, and this was also kept secret. Reagan was senile as hell...but I think most people kinda figured that one out.

          by BaltimoreDem on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:56:10 PM PDT

      •  Surgery in New York Harbor

        Didn't Grover Cleveland get a cancerous tumor removed on a boat off Long Island?  Talk about secrets.  Imagine if you had to get some crazy surgery that probably predated its time and you had to do it on some rickety boat.
        

        by charlesdog12 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:39:02 AM PDT

        •  You Can Even See the "Secret Tumor"

          ...on display at the Mütter Museum in Philadelphia (which has gotta be one of America's oddest tourist attractions...if you have a strong stomache, it's definitely worth a visit!).

          by GreenSooner on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:00:03 AM PDT

          •  eeeeeewwwwwwwww!!!!!!!! n/t

            by dbfactor on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:11:55 AM PDT

          •  Mutter Museum

            I forgot about that.  Maybe I should go, as I live in Philly.  At my school, a few grades before me, they used to take kids the to Mutter Museum to see the STD exhibit.  They stopped doing the trip for some reason.  I don't know if it is still there, but I am sure that Cleveland's Tumor is a lot easier to watch then STD riddled penises.

            by charlesdog12 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:45:26 PM PDT

      •  I almost have to say

        that I would too: throw a stroke, that is. I wonder if we haven't constructed, in the contemporary Presidency, an office so intense in its bombardment with demand that it destroys the occupant.

        Look at Bill Clinton - look how he aged during those eight years, see where he is now. I don't mean to say that his, uh, habits might not have had a lot to do with that too, but it's clear to me that the Presidency aged him terribly.

        Even with Bush as shielded from the facts as he is known to be, he's got to be operating at the outer limits of the body's ability to cope with stress. I think anyone would.

        It almost - almost - makes me sorry for him.

        by adamgreenfield on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:03:19 AM PDT

        •  that's funny...

          I don't think it aged Clinton at all. He was in office eight years, his hair greyed (which no doubt it would have anyway), but the "aging" to his face was minimal. If anything, I think he looked better at the end of his presidency than at the beginning.

          The heart disease is most definitely from his diet and family history.

          by snookybeh on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:29:04 AM PDT

        •  It almost - almost - makes me sorry for him.

          OK, get a grip now.  He doesn't deserve your sympathy.  He got into this because he wanted to, he's destroying the country, and he's paying people to rip up voter registration forms so he can have four more years to do more damage.

          by Boston Boomer on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:39:48 AM PDT

          •  Stipulated,

            I bow to no one in my vituperation for the assblanket.

            by adamgreenfield on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 03:52:06 PM PDT

      •  Yea...great healthcare...

        Just ask James "Did I Really Need That Slug Removed?" Garfield.

        by MixMastaKooz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:03:18 PM PDT

  •  We saw it

    My girlfriend and I were stitting at home watching the deabe and I noticed the spittle at the edge of his mouth.  When I pointed it out to her, she saw it to (I don't think she saw it at first due to being distracted bu our new kitten).  I kept wondering if he was going to remove it somehow (brushing it away or licking).  It distracted me the entire time he was answering the question.

    I didn't really notice the mouth drooping and I have no idea about medical causes, as it's not my field.  But yeah, the spittle was there.

    by romantotale on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:11:16 AM PDT

    •  a kitten in every pot

      maybe if Bush bought every American a new kitten, that would distract the country from what a crappy stroked-out prez he is.

      by watt on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:50:05 AM PDT

      •  I can see the bumper sticker now...

        "Vote Bush/Cheney.  Your kittens life depends on it."

        And the Kerry retort:
        "When I was in Vietnam, I fought for the kittens, just like I will as President.  If I am elected, I will roll back Bush's unafforable tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans and I will use that money to buy organic kitten food for America's kitties.  President Bush thinks kittens lives can only be saved.  I say we can make those lives better."

        by romantotale on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:12:04 AM PDT

        •  my cat's a dictator

          but even he wouldn't vote for bush.

          by skyesNYC on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:37:08 AM PDT

          •  Haha!

            My boyfriend's brother has this black cat.  One tough SOB and his name?  It's Hitler.

            I kid you not.  He (the brother), has a really warped sense of humor.  And he's a very good ER doctor.  

            by smugbug on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:19:36 AM PDT

        •  "Vote Bush/Cheney"

          Though their policies on sexuality probably are just a way to prevent the genocide of kittens.

          Classic photoshop image from fark.com

          Too many kitty comments to not have this up there.

          by changingamerica on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 01:36:20 PM PDT

•  Bush was on Thorazine in 3rd debate

  It might make half his face freeze up and cause him to drool, but at least he didn't physically assault anyone on stage.

  by nyetsoup4you on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:33:25 AM PDT

  •  I'm Convinced You Are Correct.

    The Thorazine would also explain his grimacing, "chewing" jaw movements, slurring his "esses", head bobbing and blinking.  More especially the fact that THOSE symptoms were NOT in evidence last night.

    I've been watching him for months and those bizarre movements have been in evidence for at least eight months.

    The only explanation I have for THOSE movements is Tardive Dyskinesia - as a sequelae to the use of neuroleptics. Like Thorazine.

    Now, last night's lack of the aforementioned symptoms,  but the sudden appearence of the drooping and drooling would suggest that he WAS medicated with Thorazine or its analog last night.

    This was a new event.  And it's goddamned serious.  He is unfit to be in office NOW!

    Whomever is playing pharmacological Whack-A-Mole with his medications to smack down the syptoms as they appear, knows this.

    If you have fears about this, you are very correct to have them.  Not to put too fine a point on it, the prez is crazier than a shithouse rat and the only thing that keeps him barely functional are those medications.

    Full stop.

    We demand, we do not ask, for a physical now.

    by mattman on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:51:58 AM PDT

    •  Schizophrenia?

      Could that explain why he thinks God speaks through him?

      by lysias on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:58:08 AM PDT

      •  not schizophrenia

        The onset of schizophrenia almost always occurs between the teenage years and the early 20s.  Bush is beyond the risk window for that one, unless he's been using a lot of PCP. Unlikely.

        by YankInUK on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:29:06 AM PDT

        •  instead of schizophrenia

          My guess is bipolar disorder with short-cycling.  It makes it very hard to get the meds right, "pharmacologic whack-a-mole" is a very good description.

          by frankw9 on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 04:48:49 AM PDT

          •  more

            Late in the manic phase of bipolar disorder ("manic-depressive" disorder) the patient frequently experences megalomania, the belief that he is God, or Jesus, or President of the United States...

            This stage is usually followed by descent into paranoid psychosis, marked by irrational beliefs that someone (like Saddam) is persecuting them.

            (disclaimer: I am not a doctor.)

            by frankw9 on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 05:09:28 AM PDT

    •  That sounds like a job for the sloganator...

      The president is crazier than a shithouse rat.
      BUSH-CHENEY 04

      Hey, it works!

      by JetJaguar on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:02:47 AM PDT

    •  "pharmacological Whack-A-Mole"

      As NY Times reports:
      "Mr. Bush appeared in three guises: impatient, even rattled at times during the first debate, angry and aggressive in the second, sunny and optimistic last night."

      He was tired in the first debate, so he took a stimulant for the second debate.  The stimulant made him too aggressive, though, so he took a sedative or anti-psychotic for the third debate.

      He was far too giddy for the first half of the debate, then the smiles went away.  This, too, points to a pharmeacological agent wearing off, in my mind.

      I don't know which drug, but possible visible side effects included:

      • dry mouth - note frequent small sips of water
        
      • facial flushing

      We've got a druggie in office.

      by shipyardian on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:18:44 AM PDT

    •  Clarification

      Are you saying he wasn't slurring his "esses" las night?  I think he was very much so.

      And blinking.  Lots of blinking.

      by Falstaff on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:21:09 AM PDT

      •  Yes, He Was Both

        slurring and blinking, but because the drool and droop were SO pronounced, that those symptoms were less arresting.

        I believe that it is the jaw movements particularly that are so bizzare, that they knew that,  as more and more people were noticing it, they made a decision to medicate him to ameliorate that symptom.

        As I say, they cannot, repeat cannot,  control all the symptoms all the time.

        by mattman on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:50:01 AM PDT

        •  10. Chimpy McBlinker

          9. Blinky O'Drool
             
          8. Addict bin Spittle
             
          7. Doper McJaw Clicker
             
          6. Steamy McTwister
             
          5. Cracky McCrackhead
             
          4. Stroke van Aneurism
             
          3. Cotton Mouth Jones
             
          2. Awol DeSerter

          and the number one name for our chimp-in-chief:

          1. Gone

          by PBnJ on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:41:23 AM PDT

          •  Shameless Plug

            How about the one I came up with: The Hunchback of Voter Shame?

            by wry twinger on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:53:12 AM PDT

            •  That's a great one

              11. Count Crackula of Crawford
                  
              12. Satan's Little Helper
                  
              13. Jerky O'Smirky

              ... and maybe "your next Pizza Hut delivery guy"

              by PBnJ on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:10:12 PM PDT

              •  so hard to choose!

                You guys crack me up. Made reading this thread worth my time.

                by Hollywood Liberal on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:22:53 PM PDT

          •  what about

            I always liked mine...

            "Flip-flapper."

            by muji on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:25:06 PM PDT

      •  He always

        slurs his esses.  That's why I think he speaks parseltongue.

        by Unstable Isotope on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:35:30 PM PDT

        •  perfect! lol <nt>

          by kwinz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:34:57 PM PDT

    •  No way he'd be taking thorazine

      If Bush were on some antipsychotic it would be one of the newer drugs like Zyprexa or Albilify.  Have you ever taken thorazine?  He wouldn't be able to stand up there and talk on that stuff, even as badly as he does.  

      by Boston Boomer on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:44:03 AM PDT

    •  That's a classic!

      Not to put too fine a point on it, the prez is crazier than a shithouse rat

      by wry twinger on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 11:51:54 AM PDT

    •  Tardive Dyskonesia!

      Yes! That term lept out of the deep recesses of my brain when I read the "chewing motions" comment. I remember the first time I noticed him doing that I made some smartass remark like, "Look, they finally got the Prez on Ritalin for his ADHD!" 'Cause stimulants often make people "gnaw" involuntarily, right? And Bush would know from his vast experience with illicit stimulants. But it must not have been too bad because I'd forgotten all about it until the other night when I noticed more involuntary movements from him duing the debate. It's not just spittle. I noticed lots of jerking movements. Problems in the middle of words (okay, okay, I know! This is Bush, here, but this is a whole 'nother level. If he had ever been even slightly adept at speaking like a normal human I'm sure we would have noticed much sooner.) I really think he may be on some sort of anti-spasmodic.

      Or he's actually schizophrenic and truly does have Tardive Dyskonesia (oh, so fun to say aloud!) from an anti-psychotic.

      Now that's a truly terrifying thought!

      by sereneonline on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 12:00:19 PM PDT

      •  or even SSRIs

        the first couple of months of Prozac made me twitchy as hell (my family actually begged me to stop taking it at one point) and I had a chewy-type tic (I think it's also a serotonin thing, because I've seen people on Ecstasy do the same thing). My doctor added a temporary low dose of Lorazepam to whack the twitchy symptom, and once I'd been on Prozac for a month or two, it went away.

        disclaimer: I'm very skeptical about the theories in this thread, but it's fun to speculate :P

        by cyclopatra on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:08:50 PM PDT

      •  falling

        Google on the phrase "neuroleptic malignant syndrome".  It's a rare side effect of drugs in the thorazine family, but more common if someone has abused cocaine.  It causes a severe seizure that can leave permanent nerve or muscle damage.  

        by frankw9 on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 04:55:21 AM PDT

  •  Pigmentation Changes

    I checked the side effects of Thorazine, and one of the ones listed is change in skin pigmentation.  Could this be the cause of the blotchiness?  IAND.

    by davidinmaine on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 10:15:38 AM PDT

•   Bells Palsy

  Bells Palsy is a commom Facial Paralysis. It can be a result of a viral infection or Lyme's Disease amoung other things.

  This usually occurs on one side of the face and people usually recover most of their previous function.

  My daughter had this as a result of Lyme's at age 9. She has regained almost all mobility but if you look very carefully you can see a slight weakness on her left side.
   

  by pollyusa on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:36:20 AM PDT

  •  That's what I was thinking.

    But if he had Bells, I would think that it would be more pronounced. I don't know if there are varying degrees of it but I got it in college and it caused 100% paralysis. I could barely talk because the right side of my face wouldn't move. I never drooled, though. In older folks it recovers more slowly and it took me months to get most of my movement back.

    As an aside, that's also the reason Nader's face is a little droopy on one side. He never fully recovered.

    by DynomiteUVA on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:55:00 AM PDT

  •  Could be, but I doubt it

    If it was Bell's Palsy, he would have had trouble with his left eye, as well.

    His blinkyness was pretty symmetrical, as far as I could tell.

    Definitely something's up, though.

    by sillyrabbit on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:09:50 AM PDT

  •  Had it too