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Seriously, the GOP must keep voters away from the polls in order to have any chance to win.

This flyer is being distributed around Milwaukee's African American communities.

Found and scanned by this Sierra Club blogger.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:18 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Geez, nice typo... (none)

    The rest of it is even worse.

    •  That's a derivative (3.66)
      of Giulani.

      Who will incidentally be in Madison tomorrow to attack Kerry.

    •  Why hasn't... (3.66)
      ...anyone reported this flyer to the local media? If we would alert the local media to this then maybe we could catch the stupid assholes who are putting this shit on the street.

      Also, the media could debunk all of this.

      Report it to the newspapers!
      Report it to the tv stations!
      Report it to the radio!

      Get the word on the street that this thing is fake and shouldn't be taken seriously.

      Like, I've said before, we have to take off the kid gloves if we're gonna win this thing.

      •  It was reported (none)
        I'm volunteering up here in Milwaukee (from Texas). I came into the Kerry office last night and showed this graphic to the crew in the room. One of the camp. coordinators immediately got on the phone to witv (I believe the ABC station) and they requested that I send them the pic.

        I did, immediately. I'm not sure if it was broadcast on the newscast though because I went straight back to the work I was doing.

      •  Report it to Election Protection (none)
        Someone call 1-866-OUR-VOTE and report it so it shows on
    •  This may not be real (2.50)
      I don't believe it and I suggest we wait a little while before trumpeting it to the world. If we wait until later tonight, for example, it's not like the issue is going to go away!

      Please folks, BE CAUTIOUS here.

      This instant feedback can cut deeply BOTH WAYS.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:17:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (2.00)
        This is so over the top it really is hard to believe its real

        Then again.....

        •  It is real (3.66)
          I know a person who (independently) found this exact same flyer in Milwaukee yesterday afternoon, and faxed it to Madison.

          Same damn thing.

          It's so unbelievably outrageous I personally don't feel like anyone would really believe it, but with all the first time voters in WI you never know.

          They do stuff like this every year but we need to call it out for the bullshit it is each and every time!!!

          •  Never underestimate... (none)
            ...the ignorance of American people. (Slightly revised version of a quote by H.L. Mencken.)

            I realize what I write in this post may sound ugly, but as a reality-based community, we must understand the situation as it is.

            The educational system in this country is producing a lot of people who are gullible, poor at logical reasoning, and jump to conclusions. I know. I'm a college professor, and while I have a lot of smart students, there's always someone who manages not to understand even the simplest and clearest directions because s/he was sure s/he knew what I meant better than I did, or simply read the first line and figured s/he could guess at the rest. I don't think it's the students' fault - I think it's because they were socially promoted through grades where little teaching was going on - but that doesn't change the situation. And keep in mind that I always try my best to explain everything in good faith and am reachable through my office hours and email, whereas these bastards are trying their best to confuse and con uneducated and undereducated people. We assume people will dismiss these crude frauds at our peril!

            •  Not just a product of poor education (none)
              It's not just an issue of gullibility or poor education. Many of the people this message is targeting are suspicious and fearful of authority, especially when police action or jail time is threatened. If there's any doubt in their mind of their safety, they'll stay away from the polls. It's sad and wrong that anyone would be trying to manipulate them through fear this way.
      •  It's real (3.66)
        We have a copy at 1-866-OUR-VOTE.  Also one going around (I forget the state) calling Jefferson County to "Get Out to the Poles" on Nov. 4, 2004.


        We were marching for the children, we were marching for the poor. Now we're marching for self-interest-- we'll march forevermore.

        by andlorr on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:41:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Get Out to the Poles" (4.00)
          You forgot Poland!!

          Proud Member, Controversial Daily Kos Extremist Group

          by DC Pol Sci on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:50:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If Real, As You Say, Why The Hell (3.66)
          hasn't it been hand delivered to the press in the area and to everyone else of any authority or influence?

          What are you waiting for?  NOW'S the time to make a big stink about it.

          You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

          by mattman on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:05:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Forget the media (none)
            send it to the state and city election boards and the state and city district attorneys ASAP

            And don't forget every non-partisan election watch public interest group!

            Steve Wolf

            by stevew on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:09:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Absolutely RIGHT! (none)
              Let's get on it.  If I had a copy of that piece of shit I'd be tearing up the place.

              If real, that dog hunts!

              You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

              by mattman on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 09:12:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  By all means, get out to the Poles!!! (none)

          I found this on a German site (of all places!).  If you're in Milwaukee and taking a break from GOTV, why not consider a stop at:  

              * The Basilica of St. Josaphat
                Milwaukee's Catholic crown jewel, this Polish basilica's website features the history of the building, photos, and religious history of St. Josaphat and basilica architecture.

          Here's an endorsement for Kerry/Edwards from the Polish American Congress in Ohio:

          In western Wisconsin and St. Louis, prominent Kerryphobe Archbishop Raymond Burke earned a bad reputation with Polish-Americans by razing a Polish parish in LaCrosse and withdrawing priests from St. Stanislaus Kostka in St. Louis because the parish board would not turn over the deed to the Archdiocese.  At St. Stan's:

          But for now, they continue to gather, praying in English and in Polish. On one of those Sundays in August, Carol Crossley, who grew up in the parish and attended the elementary school, said: "Our grandparents came here 100 years ago to escape religious and political oppression. Now we have Archbishop Burke and he's telling us how to vote and trying to take away our church."

      •  I agree (none)
        That could have easily been made up by a democratic supporter in order to gain sympathy, how do we know who made it, the 10 years in jail and your kids will be taken away just seems to much of a joke to me, not very convincing
      •  Obviously a fake (none)
        I've examined the lack of superscripts and the fonts in the scanned image and the document could only have been made on a 1966 Royal typewriter - a type that was available only through Pentagon purchasing.
        I believe the ragged imprint and evidence of platten-stutter suggests this paper has been in contact a particular model formerly in the possession of an Air National Guard office in Texas.   (While some insist the typewriter was transferred to an Alabamama office, most believe it was, in fact stolen.)

        "Pacifism is simply undisguised cowardice" A. Hitler, Nurnburg 1926

        by FeastOr on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 11:26:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's pathetic.. (none)
    ..and so over the top. "Ten years in prison and your children will get taken away from you"? Very few people will believe that.
    •  Please don't assume that... (4.00)
      Even very VERY smart people fall for stuff if they think it comes from someone "official." We can't assume no one is taking this flyer seriously, we must get it flung far and wide that it's a fraud so no one is tricked by this shit.
      •  Exactly (none)
        I hope to God that the Democrats in the area had the good sense to launch a pre-emptive strike on this kind of shit and send out flyers saying "You will NOT be denied the right to vote for (blank)," etc. etc.

        If any GOTV groups in poor/urban areas of swing states haven't done this - PLEASE, for the love of God, do it! This is almost certainly part of the plan.

        "Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it." - Mark Twain

        by soultaco on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:17:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Right, (none)
      since legitimate organizations will be telling you how you can vote, not how you can't.
    •  Beyond pathetic... (4.00)
      It's insulting.  And sad.  Whoever wrote this must think that black people are all ignorant and stupid.  I thought we'd left those myths behind with Jim Crow laws, but apparently someone must still believe them.   Things like this make me embarrassed to be a member of the same species as the writer.  
    •  unfortunately (4.00)
      more than a few people will believe it. in a lot of low-income communities, news is often passed around by word of mouth. for a young black kid who has had to spend his whole life looking over his shoulder, it wouldn't take much to convince him that it's not worth it to take the chance on voting, especially since he figures voting for kerry probably won't get him a decent job much less stop the cops from harrassing him.

      the gop are evil, craven bastards. if this isn't proof, i don't know what is. the thing is, i know this shit has been going on forever! this is not the first election they've tried to suppress the minority vote. it's just the first one we're all hearing about.

      i'm going to show this to my 18-year-old babysitter. he's black and voting for the first time this year. if i arm him with this info, maybe it'll enable him to stop any rumours he hears. i also might print it out for my landlord, who is the pastor of a small black church.

      thanks to the blogger who gave the heads up on this.

      •  Would Recommend that you DON'T print it (none)
        Don't want to add to the proliferation of this sludge.

        Who knows where it will end up or how it will be taken.

        Use other means to debunk -- showing your babysitter and landlord the online version.

        •  Create a counter-flyer (4.00)
          Or just create a counter-flyer. All of this information is accurate for Wisconsin.

          *You CAN vote in this election, EVEN IF you have voted in another election this year
          *You CAN vote in this election, EVEN IF you have been convicted of a crime - including a felony
          *You CAN vote in this election, EVEN IF someone in your family has been found guilty of a crime
          *You WILL NOT be arrested, jailed, or penalized for voting
          *If your name is on the list of registered voters YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF OF YOUR IDENTITY OR RESIDENCE.

          The first few are common sense, others taken from PFAW's Wisconsin Voter's Bill of Rights.

          Just an idea.

          •  Now THAT is one HELL of a great idea (none)
            Of course that should be the response.

            If this is true (and I am starting to believe it is because of all of the testimonials and the 800 number, etc) then fine, attack it with a frontal assault.

            In the meantime, distributing something that clearly and simply lays out the real law would kill this. Especially if it is professionally done and clear and to the point. Listing the truth, bullet by bullet is the antidote.

            They can run but they can't hide.

            President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

            by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:49:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  that is good, but (none)
            many state laws say that you do need to provide proof of identity or residence.  If you don't have a photo ID, a piece of mail will work.  I think it's a good idea, and since most folks have ID you don't want them to leave it at home and end up voting provisionally.  I am sure there are some groups who contend you don't need ID, but as far as I know identification requirements are legal and constitutional.

            American military intervention is like American cinema. Really high production values, but the script sucks.

            by jibeaux on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:41:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Careful with that last one (none)
            If you're newly registered this year and didn't mail in some proof of residency with your registration, you need to prove it in many states.

            Here in NC, it's driver's license, utility bill or government-issued check, IIRC.

            My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

            by Bill Rehm on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:56:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  How about a flyer... (none)
          posted in the neighborhood that these flyers show up in that says:

          Distributing False Information Regarding Election Procedures is a Felony that is punishible by 90 days in prison and/or a fine of $1000 for each instance (i.e. each flyer)..

          who cares if it isn't true.. fight fire with fire...

          I do not want Sept. 11th to become a day that defines us. Sept. 11th is about them - the bad guys - not about us. We're about the Fourth of July.

          by mlangner on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:44:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, with a 'wanted' poster (none)
            Put up a Distributing False Info flyer, but on it say something like: "The following is an example of False Information:" Put in the flyer, then put a "Authors Wanted".  Or make a 'Wanted' poster for the authors seperatly.

            Gets the info about the fake flyer out there without accidentally legitimizing it.

            The answer is November 2nd; Phrase your question carefully

            by nullspace on Fri Oct 29, 2004 at 08:45:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (4.00)
        People have a tendency to forget about all that has been thrown at the African-American community over decades and decades ..... there is a memory of this trauma, especially among older people, but not only older.  The instinct to shut down and hide is still very much there, unfortunately.

        I am so upset, this just adds to it. I have been listening to the Al Franken show (I download it and listen to it later) ... Al is playing clips of people like Sean Hannity and others saying that THE NY TIMES STORY ABOUT THE EXPLOSIVES HAS BEEN TOTALLY DEBUNKED.  They are saying KERRY IS BLAMING OUR TROOPS (in about those tones). I mean, they are saying RIDICULOUS THINGS!!  INSANE things .. but they seem SO SURE!!  

        I have a prediction .. the right wing is getting SO over the top, I feel the responsible, Reality-Based media are finally going to wake up and start taking them on .. I mean, they are OD'ing on lies .. it's just INCREDIBLE!!

        And now this .. how long before they get it???

    •  Don't be surprised (none)
      Poor folks in a broke-ass neighborhood might just not have very good information, and would be prey to this.

      Whomever is responsible for the distribution of this flier ought to be shot.

    •  Fear of The Man (none)
      Do not underestimate some groups' (valid) fear of authority figures. Registering and voting has the "Big Brother is watching you" constituency nervous: to do it means getting your name in the system, etc.

      For people who are trying to get any state social services, government oversight in their lives is already much higher than most middle-class people have to deal with. This kind of "we've coordinated our records and we're watching you" threat is just what some are suspicious of/afraid of already. If you're afraid you'll get kicked off aid, and you're not convinced a different elected official will be much better, how much of a fuss are you going to make to cast one vote?

      Find the source and discredit them!

  •  Some Milwaukee Republican (4.00)
    Should go to jail. Before they go, you know to hell.

    My blog The Washington State Political Report.

    by Carl Ballard on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:18:38 PM PDT

    •  Milwaukee Republicans (4.00)
      Ten years, the amount threatened in the flyer, seems like the appropriate amount of time for the sentence.  

      Like Abu Ghraib (spelling?) IF somebody gets sentenced, it will be a private or seargent not the colonels, generals, and politicos who are really responsible for this.

      On November 2 we have the opportunity to make these people pay for their misdeeds.  It's about time to make a regime change in DC rather than in Iraq, Haiti, etc.

    •  If I caught someone in my area doing this I (none)
      would hurt them.  But since I'm white and live in a largely repuglican area I doubt I will run into this person.  Unless they are coming home.

      ERRRR this pisses me off.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:45:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not a big surprise... (4.00)
      similar scare tactics were used n the Milwaukee area in 2000...

      Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker is the Republican rep. who is in charge of organizing GOTV for BushCo in the Milwaukee area.... he has already attempted limit the number of ballots at each precinct in the City of Milwaukee, despite the expectation of huge new voter turnouts. ( and in WI, citizens can register right uo to and including the day of the election at the polls).  Walker lost that effort thanks to our Democratic governor and mayor, who pushed him into a corner and forced a compromise.  But he's extreemly partisan.  I doubt he's behind this, but the whole Republican party in Wisconsin is slimy and known to play dirty.  I don't doubt some rouges from within the party are behind it.

      •  Yes, I found three similar examples (none)
        reproduced with citation down-thread. Some commenters have said that this is too over-the-top to be real, but it fits a pattern.

        The medium shapes the message --
        we need better new media, more biased toward reality.

        by technopolitical on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:17:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    This is dynamite, they need to track these as soon as they can and hopefully pin them to some GOP robot.
    •  Dude, you should clarify (2.30)
      that the monkeys comment was innocent...

      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

      by PBJ Diddy on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:21:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh... (1.75)
        yeah. Like ten minutes ago.

        "One should always have one's boots on and be ready to leave." - Michel de Montaigne

        by adamgreenfield on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:23:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  eh? (3.77)
        Its just a randon exclamation, just expressing that I am shocked by it, why?
        •  It's bad enough... (1.00)
          that you can't spell.  It's even worse that you can't understand why your expression might be offensive, even though you most probably (giving you the benefit of the doubt) didn't mean anything by it.
          •  Man you folks are harsh (3.85)
            I really didn't mean anything, I appologize for the spelling but I just rapid type too much. I guess it could be bad, but I just pulled it out randomly. Why read so far into it, besides my text said I hope they traked the person down. Yikes, guess I'll just sit and read if everything I post is deconstructed six ways.
            •  It's not the spelling that matters (1.25)
              "It's even worse that you can't understand why your expression might be offensive."

              Do the right thing and apologize for accidently using a term that is used by the kind of person who made this sign.  Do the right thing and rent do the right thing since the word is used in that classic film.

              •  HOPLY CRAP!!! (3.75)
                I AM REAAAALLLLY REAAALY REALLLY SORRY!!!!!! I didn't even think of the film thing, I just dind't connect the dots on that one. Geeze I reaaly put my foot in my mouth, please don't ban me or anything, can the post be deleted? I just pulled that from the hip I didn't mean anyhting! Can a mod delete it, I just feel like a total idiot now.
                •  Much better (1.20)
                  Of course now I feel like a Nazi for making you apologize.  Whoops.  My bad.  I apologize for using the word Nazi.
                  •  Feel like a Nazi? (4.00)
                    Good, because you should.  Taking people out of context is a freeper trick.  Or would you like a complete discourse analysis of this discussion using Montague semantics and other big words to prove that you are full of shit?

                    A simple, "Hey, watch that, someone could take it the wrong way." would have been sufficient.  Can we at least wait until after the election before we start tearing eachother apart?

                  •  GOD I LOVE THIS SITE! (4.00)
                    I am sitting here chuckling while you all bicker over details about an "offensive" comment (and yeah I guess it was offensive or could have been taken as offensive, but I haven't seen the movie) that was made innocently by someone here that was seriously upset because of some real racist (or perhaps imaginary racist, see my other posts in this thread) that is trying to keep African Americans from voting!

                    Y'all are GREAT! Group HUG!

                    President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

                    by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:40:38 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  SIMMER DOWN (4.00)
                Mr. 3vil cleary meant NOTHING by his remarks.I think your outrage is disingenuous and your energy would be better spent making sure this voter suppression activity is exposed..Keep your eye on the ball
                •  The only person anyone on this blog... (4.00)
                  ...ever refers to as a monkey is the Chimperor in Chief.  Let's assume Mr. 3vil was referring to him...anyone who would post on this board with a racist intent wouldn't post something agreeing with us; he'd be posting troll stuff like "Bush rules."

                  Proud Member, Controversial Daily Kos Extremist Group

                  by DC Pol Sci on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:26:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  it's (4.00)
                even more offensive to immediately think of black people when someone mentions monkeys.  That's so stupid.  Geez, you know it was innocent and anyone with half a brain (this includes black people, sir!) would know that esp. in the context of this board.  Geezus.  And no, I'm not white so don't think that I'm talking about something that I couldn't possibly understand.  It would be as if you were asking someone not to mention tacos in my presence for fear of making me hungry.  
            •  no calling african american people... (none)
              monkeys is a great way to get hurt in any city in the US.  

              I bet you did not intend that and the monkeys comment wasn't directed at them but it will still get you beat up.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:48:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I dunno (4.00)
                I live in a city and while calling anyone a monkey in terms like- "you are a monkey" stands a good chance of provoking a (deservedly) heated response- using any permutation of the phrase Holy (verb)ing (nouns)s! just lets people know that you watch Batman reruns.

                Might and Right are always fighting In our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning. Might can hardly keep from grinning. -Clarence D

                by Myrkury on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:25:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  you folks? (none)
              i guess you mean kosmopolitans

              hope is on the way!

              by Errol on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:34:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Hey Mr... (4.00)
              uh.. 3vil
              Guess what? I'm black and I don't get offended whenever I see the word "monkey". Perhaps because I don't think of myself that way...

              I took your comment as an innocent expression of shock.

              •  oh, dear. (none)
                I'm white and I call my kid a monkey sometimes (mostly on the subway when she insists on swinging from the handrails when the train is moving).

                Children in general, I think, have a simian quality.

          •  give me a fucking break (2.84)
            you sanctimonious waste of space. my word. if i hadn't already met so many similar walking bags of entropy in San Francisco, i'd think you were a Freeper troll.

            tree. forest. see the difference?

          •  Can't we all get along.... (4.00)
            ...and be happy and gay?

            Uhh oh! Am I know going to get 20 posts from that guy about my flagrant use of the word 'gay.' It could be considered derogatory.

            Jesus Christ, what was I thinking. Oh crap, I did it again! Now he is going to hit me with 20 posts on on that being derogatory towards Christians.

            Mother f..... Damn! Another one! Holy Moses! Eeek.

            For the love of God! ..... Man, I better go, or he is going to hunt me down like a dog.... Ooops!

            Hey, maybe I can get a spelling flame also. Posters look so intelligent when they do that. So lets risk no spell check!

            Signature Impaired.

            by gttim on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:39:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Since no one else seems willing to explain (2.66)
          Racist Americans have long associated blacks with primates as an attempt to define them as sub-human.

          dKos has its obnoxious intellectual elite, but to me, learning quickly is just as good as knowing it all.  I'd recommend burning this one to memory.

          "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
          -John Maynard Keynes

          by Dragonchild on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:48:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know I shouldn't do this (4.00)
            But you do know black folks are primates, right? Same with white folks, Latino folks, Asian folks, and Native folks.

            Homo sapiens sapiens is a member of the order Primate.

            My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

            by Bill Rehm on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:03:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Giving you a 4... (3.93)
      b/c I don't think you should be troll-rated for not being cognizant of the historical racial connotation of "monkey", given that, ideally, no one would be cognizant of that connotation, and, indeed, it wouldn't exist.  I mean, come on; is the rule "don't talk about monkeys in any context at all when African-Americans are related to the topic of discussion, because many ignorant people like to express their ignorance in a similar way"?  That's ridiculous.  We should be working to reclaim the term and marginalize and eliminate that connotation, not strengthening it through knee-jerk reactions.
    •  I didn't take that as a racist comment (4.00)
      ..until someone else jumped on it. It was an exclamation. I guess you should have said something like, "holy sweet jumpin baby seals!"

      I dunno. Maybe something like that, anyway.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:52:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Its amazing (4.00)
        how much more work we could all get done if dumbasses didn't pounce on what was clearly something that was not intended to be racist.
        •  EXACTLY! (none)
          Repuglicans control all three branches of the US government--executive, legistlative, judiciary--because progrossive kosmopolitans get all steamed up about a regretable but innocent comment five days before the elections!

          Why aren't you people out ringing doorbells and making phonecalls instead of wasting precious time and energy on policitally correct pissing contests!

          Where are your priorities?

          Steve Wolf

          by stevew on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:18:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  baby seals (4.00)
        are white.  Until they mature and grow their darker coat.  So as a caucasian I object to you not only refering to pinnipeds, but immature pinnipeds at that.
        I expect an apology. :-)
      •  Jay-zus, someone call the PC cops! (4.00)
        Seemed clear to me that the "monkeys" remark was simply part of a spontaneous exclamatory flourish and connected only coincidentally with the topic of African-American vote suppression.  I didn't even think about it until people started piling on this poor guy.  Some people hereabouts need to chill, I think.
      •  Holy? (none) it monkeys, seals, bunnies or whatever...
        HOLY? That could offend atheists or saints or the unholy

        Jumping? That could offend acrobats or jumpers or the lame or the lazy

        Sweet? That could offend dieters, sugar cane growers, diabetics or dentists

        The flyer? That should offend us all.

        Even whoever made/distributed it should be offended by themselves. Honestly...the religious right support Bush???...the family values party??? We see so many dirty tricks from them, how does that fit?

        OK, they accuse us of false registrations but they should be slow to do that. Because (speaking of the holy and unholy) I think this election the dead really would come back and vote.

    •  Sorry (4.00)
      Just to close this, I want to appologise for this comment. I honestly didn't mean anything by it. I tend to just fire out anything I think is funny or wierd at the time. I didn't realise in context it was VERY inappropriate.
      •  Don't apologize (4.00)
        If people take what you say the wrong way, even after you've explained what you meant, f*@k 'em. This exactly the kind of crap that cause us to lose elections, its called a circular firesquad.
        •  Normally I'd agree (4.00)
          But there a reference you can draw here to very racist film, which I didn't think of at all when I was writing it (for the record I was thinking of Guybrush Treepwood and his exlamation of "Great Sainted Jumping Monkies!") but I just shortened it without thinking. So this one need an apology.
        •  Look... (2.66)
          The reason why I was concerned about the comment: This website gets millions of hits.  Not only Liberals and Democrats come here.  Along with the "enemy", many Media folks come here too.  

          While I agree with the sentiment that it's ridiculous that you can never use the word "monkey" because of the stupid, racist history of it's applications...the truth is that it does hurt people.  

          I just didn't want a freeper to link to this post and say, "See...these democrats are making a big stink about a sign they consider offensive and look at the language they use."

        •  just curious (none)
          are you rhett favor by chance or is your handle rhett as in butler?

          May there be peace on earth and may it begun with me

          by lazbumm on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:37:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You know, (3.75)
      I was just trying to be helpful, and if you Re-Read my post, you'll see I SUGGESTED you clarify the comment, instead of TROLL-RATING YOU AND RUNNING AWAY LIKE SOME PEOPLE.

      I made the suggestion so that others wouldn't just hit you but instead might understand, like I DID, that it was just an innocent expression. Next time, I'll keep my good samaritan instincts to myself.

      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

      by PBJ Diddy on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:25:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No you were right (none)
        I wasn't thinking, and shoul've clarified or just been more thoughtful. Don't lose the samaritan instinct, that way lies the dark side. Now everyone get out of this thread and do something productive (and make me feel like less of an idiot).
        •  I never thought you were an idiot, (4.00)
          but, I AM.

          I was on the playground with my two boys (last summer), and I call them "monkey-man" all the time. Well, I yelled out real loud, "get over here Monkey-boy" and an African-American woman freaked out at me (I guess she thought I was yelling at her son) I was devastated, since, like you I meant NO racial connotation whatsoever, and it didn't even occur to me, but she was pissed, didn't believe me and caused quite a scene, and all I could do was turn bright red and take my kids out of there (who didn't have the slightest idea why this woman was screaming at me)...So, I was just reliving that experience and thought, gee, I should help this guy out since I'm sure it was just an expression...

          Anyway, I never did say anything bad about you or troll-rate you (although I got some shit for my post from others) so from my end, anyway - we are cool. Thanks.

          Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

          by PBJ Diddy on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:46:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks (4.00)
            I appreciate the thought, and I understand, kinda. I grew up in Utah and if you've ever been there, you'll notice there isn't much ... diversity. So growing up I didn't really understand much about why people get upset about these sorts of things. But now that I live in Illinois, I get the other side of the story. But being sheltered growing up I still make these kinds of mistakes because I don't think about it. So the problem in this case is me and my lack of understanding. And also As I stated, I'm just the kind of person that blurts things out (cafine addiction? ADD?) on a whim.

            Anyway, I really appreciate the personal thought, and wanted to share mine.

    •  Calm the fuck down, people... (none)
      We have A LOT more important things to be worrying about right now than someone's innocent comment that could be taken the wrong way...feel free to get all riled up about this kind of stuff AFTER the election.  Right now we have work to do!
    •  But... because of the spelling (none)
      I thought he was talking about Mickey Dolenz and Peter Tork.
  •  Damn you... (3.66)
    ... Milwaukee Black Voters League!!!!!1
  •  Fuckers need to go to jail. (4.00)
    And I'm tired of the media acting as though both sides are guilty of voter fraud.  Nothing the dems do compares to this despicable shit.

    Those who stand for nothing fall for anything - Alexander Hamilton

    by patagonia on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:19:10 PM PDT

  •  LGF is on the case. (4.00)

    </charles johnson>

    •  creation date is besides the point (none)
      Its being handed out RIGHT NOW. I saw someone mention this on atrios's site yesterday. These things seem to be everywhere.  Who wrote it doesnt really matter, who is handing them out today DOES.

      Also, why would anyone read LGF? I mean, do we have to refute every moronic statement they make? I believe we have better things to do than give them the attention their little egos are begging for.

  •  DISGUSTING!!! (3.83)
    Arrgh, this makes me crazy, that this is happening in my home state, the state I was born in and live in and love.

    Today the ReUGLYcans were bitching because here in Madison the city clerk's office is staying open for extended hours to allow people to early-vote.

    Can you believe, the WI Republicans are saying this is an 'illegal' in-kind contribution to the Kerry campaign?

    They don't want people to vote!

    The more people who vote, the more they lose!

    Makes me crazy.

  •  The big tent party (none)
    strikes again.

    I was watching some show today (I think it was crossfire) and the Republican was saying the voter suppression attacks were untrue.  

    Jon Stewart had it right: "You're 35 and you wear a bowtie"

    If I didn't read and think for myself, I could be a Republican

    by bonddad on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:20:46 PM PDT

    •  Real Republicans wore big hats. (none)
      "As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it, "All men are created equal, except Negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read, "All men are created equal except Negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some other country where they make no pretense of loving liberty - to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, without the base alloy of hypocrisy."

      Seems the list has gotten very long since Reconstruction. Two America's, indeed.

      Take a friend to vote. Many if possible.

  •  That's just fucking vile. (3.66)
    The shitheads who wrote that should get ten years in jail and their children taken away from them.
  •  really (4.00)
    I find this hard to believe. I would except for the "if anybody in your family has been been found guilty of anything..."

    Is anybody really going to fall for that?

    •  I've heard of these tactics (none)
      for many years, long before the World Wide Web.

      The ReUGLYcans openly talk about suppressing the 'Detroit vote'.

      And Milwaukee has a huge African-American population.

      This makes me ill. I have no doubt in my mind that this is genuine. I'm sure the 101st Fighting Keyboarders will try to say that Dan Rather faked it on a Selectric II that he bought at a secondhand store while wearing a disguise. . .

      •  Baltimore.. (none)
        Didn't this same type of flyering happen in Baltimore in a recent election?  2002, I'm thinking?

        America to Bush: This joke isn't funny anymore.

        by daria g on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:40:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes indeed, this has happened before (4.00)
          I think it's interesting that some people can't believe that the ReUGLYcans would actually do something like this.

          After the last 4 years, nothing is beyond them.

          Here's one version of the Baltimore 2002 incidents:

          Terry McAuliffe Denounces GOP Voter Intimidation and Suppression Efforts as 'Despicable'


          Terry McAullife declared, "The tactics being used around the country to intimidate voters and suppress voter turnout are nothing less than despicable. We have seen 'anonymous' fliers displayed in predominantly African American communities in Baltimore, MD, with an incorrect Election Day date, warning voters to ... take care of any outstanding warrants before they go vote. Maryland Republicans [said] their campaign plans include deploying off-duty police officers as poll watchers on Election Day. In Hidalgo County, TX a Republican poll monitor for Republican Senate candidate John Cornyn had to be escorted out of the polling place by law enforcement for harassing senior Hispanic voters and using derogatory language... Mr [Bush], do not let our election process fall prey to dirty political shenanigans once again. Tell your Republican party operatives to cease their voter intimidation practices and let Americans exercise their right to vote free of harassment and intimidation...'"


    •  That's what I was thinking too (none)
      It's so egregious.  
    •  Yeah, I had the same response ... (none) seems too much like a parody to be real. I mean, the GOP vote suppressors are vile and  careless and often stupid, but I find it hard to believe that they are THIS stupid.

      Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.

      by Meteor Blades on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:25:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  For calibration, from another source (4.00)
      From AlterNet: Counted Out --
      One sign, which appeared in Baltimore in 2002, is entirely in capital letters. "URGENT NOTICE," it reads. "COME OUT TO VOTE ON NOVEMBER 6th. BEFORE YOU COME TO VOTE MAKE SURE YOU PAY YOUR





      A second sign, this one from 1996, uses a tiny font to inform prospective voters that they may get into trouble when they walk into the booth.

      "Thanks to advances in computer technology Voting Machines can now be equipped with computers inside. The computers can be connected to a phone line to Federal State, and Local government agencies to instantly check if a voter is:

      * Wanted on Criminal or Traffic Warrants or Parole or Probation violations
      * Is behind on child support payments
      * Is cheating on Welfare, Food Stamps, AFDC, Section 8 or Medicaid by earning money 'off the books'
      * Has defaulted on government-backed student loans
      * Has failed to file income taxes for two or more years."
      This example makes the one above seem less surprising.

      The medium shapes the message --
      we need better new media, more biased toward reality.

      by technopolitical on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:56:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  More examples of similar stuff (none)
      From The Seattle Medium: The Republican War On The Blacks --
      Blacks in Michigan are not the only targets. Black voters in Louisiana and Maryland were given flyers that they were not eligible to vote if they owed back taxes or auto fines. And some were urged to show up to vote on the wrong day.

      The medium shapes the message --
      we need better new media, more biased toward reality.

      by technopolitical on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:02:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And a flyer from 2002 (4.00)
      From Black Vote Suppression in Baltimore --
      As Joshua Marshall reports, someone is trying to suppress the African American vote in Baltimore. On November 4th, the following flyer was distributed in African American precincts in Baltimore.


      The medium shapes the message --
      we need better new media, more biased toward reality.

      by technopolitical on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:11:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i would (none)
        drive myself crazy trying to figure out how to pay a warrant...

        Seriously, that's dumb beyond belief.  Leave it to Republicans to not even be able to come up with plausibly subtle voter intimidation.

        I suggest a competition to come up with the most convincing, plausible attempt to suppress the Republican vote.  Come on, what the hell else were ya gonna do, continue the "discussion" about monkeys?

        American military intervention is like American cinema. Really high production values, but the script sucks.

        by jibeaux on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:50:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  can we make calls? (4.00)
    i've been calling for kerry and act - can't we make calls to these voters to tell them they're being lied to?

    we can't let this go unchallenged!!!


  •  background? (4.00)
    Does the Sierra Club have info on the conditions in which they obtained this?  It's almost TOO over-the-top, and my gut reaction is that it's satire.  Then again, I should know never to underestimate the opposition.
  •  flyer should be footnoted * (none)
    "*applies to black voters only."

    did you hear that because of a secret terror alert the election was moved? yeah, they had it yesterday. bush won.

    No member of our generation who wasn't a Communist or a dropout in the thirties is worth a damn. Lyndon B. Johnson

    by maskling11 on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:21:47 PM PDT

  •  Suspicious (3.62)
    I don't think this is worthy of front-page Kos status until you get some confirmation.  These seem so far over the top as to be questionable.  
    •  Amen (none)
      Way too over the top.

      "The identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law." Bush v. Gore

      by DeanorBust on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:26:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed (none)
      If this is a GOP play, it's fucking stupid. Even if it isn't found out, it's so over-the-top so as to seem blatently false.

      I want confirmation. Let's get it out to the media (we got the Bush clones out in less than a day and got "Mosh" to #1 in a matter of hours, we can do this) and let them run around with it while the Kerry camapgin keeps a safe distance and just alludes to voter protections.

      The world's address
      a place that's worn
      a sad pun that reflects a sadder mess
      In case you haven't already guessed:
      The world's a dress.

      by Jaiwithani on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:28:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Take off front page? (2.80)
      I agree 100%. Let's tone this down until we see what's up with it.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:46:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Take it down until... (3.33)
        ... after the election is over so we can whine all we want.  NO WAY!  Don't be so piss-weak.

        I say keep it up there.  Even if it is a parody, at least it is boosting awareness of the GOP's broader voter supression campaign.

        Do you think the Republicans would take it down?

        •  STOP taking me out of context... (none)
          ..or claiming I said things that I didn't. I DID NOT SAY wait until after the election, you twit.

          Calling me piss-weak is absurd. Running off with torches and pitchforks is absurd. Waiting 60 minutes or even a few HOURS is not deserving of scorn.

          Clue: TROLL RATING me for suggesting caution is insulting. C'mon folks. Read what I am saying. Stop acting like republicans.

          President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

          by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:05:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Amen Too (none)
      Way too far over the top.  It's not that anyone is too smart to believe a deal like that.  It's that no Repub I know is dumb enough to try anything so crude.

      Buyer Beware Here!

      •  Racists are racists... (4.00)
        As noted upthread, this is quite plausible, given the probable views that the kind of troglodyte that would do this has on black intelligence. And as long as the trog was right about just one voter, it's a big deal.
    •  Disagree (3.66)
      Well within GOP bounds of strategery and amorality. Effective KITV messages targeting poor inner city blacks, 90% of whom vote Democrat. Deliberately low-tech looking to be plausibly local and friendly. Identical to flyers in Baltimore in 2000. Who would bother to circulate this widely in the black neighborhoods if they didn't want to suppress the vote?

      Kerry/Edwards: For a reality-based America

      by Em on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:51:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (4.00)
        There's ample historical documentation of the exact same tactics from the GOP.  It's only over the top if you're unaware that they've done the exact same thing before in every election.  In the 1990 Senate race in NC, the GOP mailed to black voters more than 100,000 postcards that threatened 5 years in prison for voter fraud.  Check out this PFAW report.
        •  History is something we learn from (none)
          It isn't something we use to determine guilt or innocence. As I hope you realize, I have never said this was fake, but I was suggesting that it would have been much more convenient if I had clicked on the supporting link and found some sort of followup information about the specifics. Nothing. No neighborhoods, no dates, nothing.

          So, I was and to some degree still continue to be skeptical. Does that mean I will be at midnight CST? No probably not. But I was at 6 CST. That is my entire point.

          Julian Bond says that southern democrats used to be the problem. Are democrats the problem now? Should we use only history to make that call? Or should we temper our decisions?

          I was reacting to calls for a SPAM campaign by some folks. They were saying, let's alert the media! I was saying, let's wait an hour or two to alert the media. That is all.

          President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

          by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:11:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I believe it -- I found similar examples (none)
      that I've posted elsewhere in this thread.

      The medium shapes the message --
      we need better new media, more biased toward reality.

      by technopolitical on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:14:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  To everyone: IT'S REAL!! (3.33)
      I saw it yesterday. It's not something that some blogger made up. Given the content, it would have to be pretty sick to be a "parody" that people distributed all over Milwaukee.
    •  Seems belivable (none)
      This technique was developed before the Internet really became popular.  People letting these flyers loose in inner cities aren't expecting them to travel too far, so not too many people would find out about them.  If the general populace saw them, then there'd be more of a problem for the distributors, but if it just bounces around in inner city neighborhoods, nobody in the newsroom will report on something like it.
  •  Jesus H. Christ. (3.75)
    That's the most evil thing I have seen all day, and I have been to LittleGreenFootballs and Freeperland to see the wingnut lunatics reaction to the ABC/Fox 'terrorist'. My skin crawls just looking at it.

    The media can dedicate an entire portion of the news cycle to the 'cloned photo' issue, to debating if people came to see Springsteen or to see Kerry in Wisconsin, but its up to the bloggers to get this kind of stuff out there?

    Our entire news media needs to be fumigated.

    Whenever the Chicken Little Brigade starts up, just keep on fighting. Its always easier to run than it is to stand, win or lose, for what's right.

    by LeftHandedMan on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:22:23 PM PDT

  •  Benevolent Ad targeted to Milwaukee AA's (none)
    Would be a good use of TV time.

    Offer a reward for information leading to the capture.

    Offer a much larger one for a scalp trophy.

    Terrorists smell weakness - That's why they attacked when Bush was president

    by cskendrick on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:23:31 PM PDT

  •  Don't go knee-jerking, now.... (none)
    ....we don't know who is doing it.  This could be similar to the Karl Rove tactic of anonymously smearing your own candidate in order to generate sympathy for him.

    Point being: don't be a knee-jerk, in this instance or any other.  That leads to mindless mob mentality.

    Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

    by perspicio on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:23:31 PM PDT

    •  I suggest (none)
      maybe talking to African Americans in urban areas. No doubt they have seen this kind of stuff before. What's really vile is that it looks like a black organization.


    •  Oh come on (4.00)
      We know gosh-darn well who is doing this, and why.

      "I'm voting for the candidate who would flip-flop on sending my son to die, rather than the one who'd do it without hesitation." ~ The Onion

      by JimTXDem on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:43:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  do we?? (3.00)
        No, in fact we don't. We suspect and we believe they are capable of it, but we have precious little to hang our hats on.


        Please! Take a deep breath and think for a minute or two about this!

        IMHO, it's too crappy to be real.

        President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

        by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:02:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ed Rollins (none)
      Who'd think that ex-Reagan big wig would brubr black ministers in NJ to win a governor's election?  He did.

      In 2000 the Reps made a big deal about poor people's bote in Milwaukee being bought by Gore's campaign.  

      The point is that they play dirty and they do it in Wisconsin.  No trick in my opinion,  Just the real scum.

    •  If we don't know (none)

      Let's say the bastard was one of ours trying to pull a Karl Rove.  We should still go after him with extreme prejudice.  Nothing violent, just his name in all the papers, radio and television.  
      •  Agreed. (none)
        Somebody or some people are responsible, and should be held accountable.  But extending the blame to an entire political party doesn't make sense.

        Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

        by perspicio on Fri Oct 29, 2004 at 12:31:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I Want Proof (4.00)
    It seems a bit over the top, even for Republicans.  No harm in making sure everyone knows they can vote on Tuesday though.

    Although, what's the other option?  Some Democrat is trying to get the Republicans accused of voter fraud?

  •  Look, I'm sorry...... (4.00) capacity for outrage is nearly spent.  Our country is seriously broken....these fuckers treat the electoral process as if it were an extremely competitive game of "Capture the Flag" at summer camp.  Anything goes, ha ha, we won.

    Shit, this is disturbing.  I'm just fucking stunned.  I'm five minutes into this response and words fail me......

    A proud member of the reality-based community!

    by roxtar on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:24:22 PM PDT

    •  capture the flag is right (none)
      I was just reading about how many lawyers both sides have ready for all the recount disputes we're going to have.  Its crazy. Someone suggested we may never have another presidential election without legal intervention again because of the precedent set by SCOTUS in their choosing of the Boy King.

      I'm hoping this isnt going to happen, but I fully expect to GOP to hollar "VOTING MACHINES ARE BROKEN" and start a jazillion lawsuits to stop Kerry from taking office.

    •  not capture the flag (3.87)
      it's Calvinball

      "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

      by Madman in the marketplace on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:09:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Word (none)
        Calvin is always funny.

        Especially if you re-read the old strips and realize that W has the same problem as Calvin in dealing with reality.

        Though a million people speak it as one, a lie is still a lie.

        by silas216 on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:01:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  WTF!! (none)
    Dont you guys pay attention --

    Mr. Coburn (R- OK) has already told us african americans are genetically pre-disposed to dying young.  

    I dont know why that is relevant just further proof that the GOP does not think that african americans are the same class of citizens as themselves.  What do the african american republicans think of this??

  •  Oh My God (none)
    This is terrible stuff.  Sadly, some people will believe it.  When I did voter registration, many times I would ask if they were registered to vote and got an answer "Oh, I can't I am a felon" well did the state take away your rights, what happened?  I told them it was possible and not to hard to get it reinstated by a request to the court.  Not one person knew that.  I believe  only Republican convicted felons will be voting in TN.  After the election is over, this will be one issue I will work to change in TN.
    •  sign me up (none)
      I want to work on this issue after the election.  I hate the idea of people losing their right to vote for life.   If they've served their time and done parole, why not let them vote?

      Our "neo-conservatives" are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell.

      by mijita on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:35:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These need to be posted (3.80)
    Dead center atop a larger poster saying:

    The Republicans are afraid of you.  They should be.

    The Republicans think you're stupid.  They're wrong.

    The Republicans think you'll vote against Bush.  They're right.

    Rubus Eradicandus Est.

    by Randomfactor on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:25:36 PM PDT

  •  The Onion... (4.00)

    "One should always have one's boots on and be ready to leave." - Michel de Montaigne

    by adamgreenfield on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:26:10 PM PDT

    •  I was just remembering that (none)
      ....when I saw this thread.

      It's hard to keep satire alive when it keeps getting beat out by reality.

      Our "neo-conservatives" are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell.

      by mijita on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:33:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Best Line (4.00)
      The best line from that:

      This year, on Nov. 3, we'll make a concerted effort to welcome minority voters into our own special camps with open arms."
  •  Get this on the local news (4.00)
    It'll do more good than harm for us.
    •  Exactly (none)
      People watch TV, and if this gets on the evening news with a talking head from the state electoral office saying it's all hogwash, blah blah blah it would both defuse it and turn the tables on whoever is passing them out. People hate when they've been lied to, and they hate being fooled even worse.

      I cut down trees and evil doers, I serve a higher law.
      I wish I'd been elected, just like my dear Papa!

      by Our Man In Redmond on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:52:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hold your fire (3.00)
      ..until we have more evidence that this is real.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:04:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Until after the election??? (4.00)
        So we can whine like whining liberals?

        Time to play hard.

        •  Wha? (none)
          Who said anything about waiting several days? All I said was wait. If you pretend I am suggesting we just forget about it, and if you pretend that I am suggesting we then whine about it, you are just fooling yourself and you aren't helping. I am not saying we forget about this. Read what I am writing here. I am saying that we can afford to hesitate a little while (like an hour or two) until the data comes in - and as a matter of act, I am seeing more data now. For example, folks are telling me that they are seeing it from other sources. That is all I want. Some kind of verification. Surely you don't want to have a witchhunt every time someone posts something evil do you? What if you are the TARGET of that witchhunt some day? Ever read "The Crucible?"

          President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

          by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:32:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hilariously sad (none)
    That almost seems like something that would appear on "The Onion."  It gets more ridiculous by the line, in classic comic tradition.  Does anyone actually think the people who recieved these flyers BELIEVE this???
    •  it's not about belief (3.75)
      but about the simple idea that this sort of thing is circulating, about rekindling old fears, about living in a climate in which this sort of thing is done.  This flyer, if widely circulated, could lead to painful and real memories of intimidation, of "literacy tests," and so forth.  Many of the people who are old enough to remember these things are now frail and (understandably) easily frightened or at least dissuaded...

      In the absence of good info, I think that we should avoid giving this story legs because it could do more harm than good.

  •  my question to gop: (none)
    have you no shame sirs?  at long last, have you no sense of decency?  

    do we know if there will be democrats efforts to dispell this?

  •  Repugs capable of this but definitely over the top (none)
    It needs to be realistic to be believable. This flyer will catch very few fish. If this is from a repug, he is one of the kids who got left behind.

    But Kos, without additional context to this, my vote for taking this piece down, till we get some more proof.


  •  IF THIS IS TRUE... (none)
    ... And NOT a hoax (just in case, I feel obliged to say this), then this a clarion call for the revolution.

    Jim Crow is dead and if it takes a few bonfires and massive civil unrest to convince the fascists that this is not the 1930s anymore, so be it.

    •  Um... (none)
      ...I think if there's massive disenfranchisement and it lets Bush swipe another election, I think there will be more than "a few" bonfires...

      Again, this is a prediction, not something I plan to effectuate...

      Proud Member, Controversial Daily Kos Extremist Group

      by DC Pol Sci on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:37:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Unfortunately... (none)
    ...there are a lot of fearful folks who may believe's easy to say "it's over the top" if you don't live a life of being afraid of such things...

    I dunno, but I hope someone gets nailed for's WRONG

  •  GOTV people up there... (none)
    ...need to be driving around these neighborhoods all day everyday, now thru election day, with big signs on their cars offering to take anyone who needs a ride to the polls...
  •  Kos, has anyone alerted the authorities? (none)
    If not, they should alert the DNC, ACLU, Election Projection, the local authorities and the MEDIA (like Olbermann). Someone who is actually willing to put the dispicable, warts (oozing sores and all), UGLY face of the Repuglican party for all of the world to see.
  •  I don't think (none)
    anyone is really going to fall for this.  This is so crude that I doubt anyone who is mentally competent enough to show up at the polls would believe it.  It also reads like the crude racist flyers that get left on windshields.

    In fact, it would be more likely to fire up African-Americans to get out the vote than it would to suppress the vote.  A quick reminder that some political parties still don't think they are human beings.

    I think that anyone fooled by this would be outweighed by African-Americans outraged by this kind of crap and show up when they might not.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident . . .

    by LeftCoastTimm on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:32:24 PM PDT

    •  i'm not worried (none)
      i'm from milwaukee. the biggest fear of white suburban republicans is that black metro milwaukee voters will tip the city--and maybe the state-- to kerry.

      the black community in milwaukee is very sophisticated. i can just imagine the laughter this flyer would illicit. don't underestimate urban milwaukeeans!

      sadly though, milwaukee it is the most segregated and bigoted city i ever lived in. now i live in madison. what a turnout for kerry and the boss today!

      •  YES (none)
        I agree completely.  Being a white, suburban democrat, I'm counting on the city of Milwaukee to tip the scale and pull the state through.  

        The only thing this will end up doing in the Milwaukee area (if it's even that widely circulated at all)is anger people in the black community and push them to further GOTV - something that is already happening in record numbers in the area.

  •  Get to the churches and the radio (none)
    The Dems need an emergency effort to reach out to the local black radio stations and churches to tell people this is bullshit. You'll reach nearly the entire black community if you do.

    Then they need to hold a press conference with every black pol and minister they can find and tell them this is bullshit.

    We CAN squash this shit, but we need to move fast.

    •  Yes, that's the way to do it (none)
      I understand that is being done now, particularly in some parts of Florida. Here in northern Nevada (Reno), for example, we from the Dem Party are policing the polls  to make sure there's no supression, and we'll have on-call attorneys' phone numbers just in case. Remember, however, when you're old - black or white - and the big men come knocking on your door asking intimidating questions and implying some kind of threat, it's kind of hard to ignore the message. If there are those who are trusted by the residents, yes, that would be the best way to get the message out to everyone.
  •  I live in the Northern Illinois suburbs... (none)
    only 40 minutes from Milwaukee, and I will be up there with bells ringing, to GOTV...

    This is straight up BULLSHIT....

  •  Has anybody contacted the guy... (none) the linked site above to get more details as to how, when, where this was obtained, and so forth?


    Mitch Gore

    No one will change America for you. You must work to make it happen.

    by Lestatdelc on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:38:07 PM PDT

  •  From "Minority Report" (paraphrased) (4.00)
    "This is what you call an orgy of evidence.  You know how many times I've found an orgy of evidence? . . . Never."

    This is the body, the smoking gun, the bloody handprint and the videotaped tryst, all on the same stained bed.

    It COULD be real.  I would not put today's GOP above these sorts of tactics.  But I also won't be conned into framing a guilty party with fake evidence.

    "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    -John Maynard Keynes

    by Dragonchild on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:39:49 PM PDT

  •  has anyone sent this (none)
    to major media outlets? Like CNN, MSNBC and <shudder> FOX?
    •  Wait a while.. (2.50)
      ..I strongly suggest that no one fire this off to the media and make this site look stupid. What if it's not real. Let's wait a few minutes at least, ok?

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:05:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hhhhhmmmmmmhhhhh..... (none)
    I guess THIS is Exhibit A of the type of "democracy" and "freedom" the current president brags about spreading throughout the middle east.
  •  I'd Really Love to Use This (4.00)
    But the "this" link in the story doesn't link to anything about the flyer (at least anything I can find after looking around for a couple minutes).  

    Any better sourcing available?

  •  Like clockwork. (none)
    Like clockwork.
  •  This makes me boil inside. (none)
    I'll say what few have said:  A party that predicates its electoral strategy on suppressing the vote of African-Americans is racist.

    This photo needs to be emailed to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.  

  •  Just spoke to someone much older and experienced.. (none)
    ...said they did this in the SIXTIES - in the SOUTH.
    Same shit - different year.

    We need to out these thugs.

    "...There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - M.K. Gandhi

    by JKU on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:42:33 PM PDT

  •  See that every 2 years (4.00)
    I see that flyer every two years - every year if there is an off-year election.   I would have to seriously question the provenence of that document.  Maybe some wingnut found it on the internets, printed out a few copies, and threw them around, but I doubt there is any widespread effort to distribute those.


  •  I can't understand (3.83)
    why so many people in this thread believe that no one could possibly be affected by this sign.

    Sure, it seems ridiculous and over-the-top.

    But if you happen to be a person (white, black or any color) that has ever been in trouble with the law (even for the smallest infraction) you might think twice about going to vote after seeing this sign.  Most people are smart enough to realize that a traffic violation wouldn't prevent them from voting...but a person who hasn't paid his traffic tickets might stop and pause.

    This sign is repugnant.  

    Even if it's not from the GOP.  Even if it's not from Karl Rove's handbook.

  •  This is unbelievable (2.85)
    And I mean that literally.

    I strongly suggest everyone takes a breath and that we don't rush to judgement. This looks too obvious to be real. It looks like a parody. If it is real, it can wait a few hours to be checked out.

    President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

    by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:44:51 PM PDT

    •  FWIW (none)
      I am more convinced that this is real than I was an hour or two ago. I wanted folks to be cautious, and I still want more proof, but I am starting to wonder what the next steps are. This shouldn't just be shrugged off as somehow serving folks right of they believe it. It's an attack and it needs to be handled some way.

      One suggestion that has tremendous appeal is to have a counter flyer that clearly states the truth and is done with careful consideration. It has to be legal. If there are election laws that say you have to have certain disclaimers or that you have to say who printed the flyer, for example, those must be on there!

      But that would be way cool if the neighborhoods were peppered with those flyers. The flyers should have a contact information too.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:58:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Some of you are underestimating two things (4.00)
    First, some of you underestimate the lengths to which some wingnuts will go to get Bush elected.  Have you forgotten that we already have evidence that, in various parts of the country:

    1. Those working for a Republican voter registration consulting firm (Sproul & Associates) were told to destroy and discard completed voter registration cards that included registration as a Democrat.  That there weren't a great deal more of these cards destroyed is no doubt due only to the fact that the canvassers were told first to find out whether the person they were approaching was planning to vote for Bush or Kerry; only those considering voting for Bush were to be given the opportunity to register to vote.  (This means, of course, that the Democratic registration cards were filled out either because some of the canvassers had a conscience or because those they approached were alert and insistent.)

    2. Some 58,000 absentee ballots have gone missing in Florida.  Does anyone with a brain really believe that the Post Office lost them?

    3. Also in Florida, people falsely claiming to work for the elections office contacted elderly, predominantly black voters to pick up their completed absentee ballots.  How many of you think that those ballots were ever delivered to the elections supervisors?

    4. In Ohio, I believe it is, people in strongly Democratic neighborhoods have been getting called by persons again falsely claiming to work for the elections office and falsely informing them that their precinct polling location has been changed.

    I could go on, but given that all of the above are federal offenses, I think you get my drift.

    Secondly, some of you grossly underestimate the understandable ignorance and legitimate fear of "the man" in poor neighborhoods with generally low educational levels.  These people have a lot of personal or secondhand experience with friends and relatives' being stopped by the police simply because they are young, male, and black; with people having their children taken from them by social services; with inconsistent enforcement of sometimes bizarre parole rules; etc.  We have municipalities where parents can be imprisoned for their children's truancy, so I don't know why anyone would find it inconceivable that someone would believe (erroneously) that voting if one's relative is a felon could make them guilty of violating election laws that they don't even know to begin with.

    Let's all keep in mind that we are educated in election rules/law and about the amount of voter suppression going on much more than at least 95% of the American public.  Of course, it is this very ignorance that provides the underlying presuppositions to the efficacy of these Repugs' voter suppression tactics.

    Knowledge is a dangerous thing -- to Republicans. <g>

    I do not suffer fools gladly

    by GreekGirl on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:46:40 PM PDT

    •  Granted, but what is wrong with gathering data? (none)
      I would presume that a fifteen minute breather while we find out WHO posted it, WHERE it's posted, stuff like that... wouldn't be a problem.

      I mean, it's not like we are 60 minutes rushing off to show forged documents to the world, right?

      The message may be true but the specific document may be false. That is the point I am trying to make here.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:11:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mark my words, it's real (none)
        They do this in urban areas in every close election. They do it for the reasons that have been posted earlier in the thread. No way this is phony, it's all too real.


        by bcamarda on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:30:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why isn't this on (4.00)
    It's not on their homepage. If it's real, why is it so hard to FIND?

    President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

    by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:47:33 PM PDT

  •  Does anyone have any (4.00)
    link for confirmation of this flyer? I followed the Kos link but I dont see anything. I want to ad this to my web page but would love to see the source first...


  •  what about the NAACP, CBB, Obama (none)
    IF this is true, then verify and air it out.
  •  Why isn't anybody ever caught distributing this (none)
    kind of trash???

    "Reality" is the only word in the English language that should always be used in quotes.

    by LionelEHutz on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 05:50:52 PM PDT

  •  It's also worth pointing out (none)
    that in Wisconsin, you can register until 5pm the day before the election.
  •  Oh, dear Christ (none)
    This is utterly sickening, and I'm stuck in NYC (life problems; can't even get to PA on the 2nd).  

    Are there Kossacks in Milwaukee who can re-leaflet this neighborhood Friday through Tuesday?  

    Please baby please baby baby baby please.

  •  This is awful. (4.00)
    Can we get some corroboration?  It's not mentioned on John Barry's site.  What could drive someone to this?
  •  Well, (4.00)
    I'd hate to question the word of a "Sierra Club blogger", but I do have to say I am somewhat skeptical.

    This seems just a little bit over the top.  First of all, I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone who reads this sign would believe it.  Perhaps the first point, maybe, MAYBE, the second, and perhaps the fourth.  But the third and the fifth points are ridiculous on their face and I think would be to anyone.  Second, I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to expect people to take this seriously.  Again, drop the third and fifth bullets and I might buy it, but as it stands, no.

    My guess is this is some ham-fisted satire, nothing more.

    •  typical (4.00)
      Why is this so hard to believe?  This kind of shit happens in African-American neighborhoods during every election.

      Fuck whitey.  Seriously.

      •  Why? (4.00)
        Well, it's hard to believe for the reasons I stated originally.  Now, I'm not saying that provocative mailings don't happen, I'm not saying this at all.  All I'm saying is that this one doesn't seem plausible to me.

        Furthermore, the only evidence that this is correct is the word of some random blogger.  If this gets picked up by a paper somewhere, maybe.  Otherwise all we know is that someone, somewhere typed up the paper and then scanned it in.  That's a far cry from the claim of where it was put and why.

    •  I agree. (none)
      That's all. I'm skeptical, too.
    •  This Looks Like Soomething from the 1970s (none)
      I'm very skeptical also.  I'd confirm this before giving it any more credibility.  There's going to be some serious problems with this election, let's stay credible ourselves by highlighting only the sure things and not crying wolf at every unsubstantiated flyer, story, etc.

      Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

      by philgoblue on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:27:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Please (3.50)
    Please email the following columnists at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and inform them about what's happening.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  •  Are the Milwaukee media reporting on this? (none)
    If they're not, then why not?
  •  Consistent Repub Attempts to Suppress Student Vote (3.75)
    A Friend of who is a Professor at Grinnell College, wrote this to me today:

       "Here in Iowa we have had our own little instances of voter repression.  Since Grinnell is not a county seat, its hard for people to get to the court house and vote early.  So the county auditor does early satellite voting twice in town before election day.  One of those satellite voting opportunities was at the college.  We got record turnout, but there were Republican poll workers there who tried to convince students that couldnt legally vote there unless they were Iowa residents.  While technically that statement is true, it is also true that the students here are by definition Iowa residents and can vote here.  And because the satellite voting allows you to both register and vote on the same day, the students were legally entitled to vote.  At least some were deterred."

     "We are hoping to avoid problems on election day by having lawyers present at our biggest polling station and on call."

       "All these voting suppression measures on the part of the Republicans reminds you of whats at stake here: these guys really just hate America."

  •  The Sierra Club Guy (none)
    has an email posted in one of the stories he has filed on the site.  I emailed him an inquiry, and I guess we'll have to see if and when he responds, either to me or on this site.
    •  Good move (none)
      please let us know.

      PEOPLE: Until this guy says something or we hear from kos with more details, remember that it is possible to fake things on the internets.

      George W. Bush found that out today with his stupid campaign ad. Dan Rather found it out a few weeks ago.

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:23:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you seem the lone voice of reason (none) this thread.

        seriously, it is no confirmation to say that the GOP has a proven track record of things like this. that line of thinking is little different than saying that 380 tons of missing explosives is not a bad thing because of the hundreds of thousands of tons we've destroyed.

        this story will have no real impact in this election unless someone is actually caught distributing the flyers.

  •  misnamed? (none)
    shouldn't this be from the milwaukee black non-voter's league?
  •  What to do (none)
    If this is true, and these fliers are being distributed someone needs to get a hold of a copier.  Copy just the headline (MBVL _ Some warnings for election time) and add the following:

    Fliers like these have been passed out in our neighborhood.  Everything they say is a total LIE.  Not only is what it says NOT TRUE but they are probably against the law!!  if you see someone passing out these fliers stop them, don't let them get away and call the police and your local Dem party office at 555-5555.  Don't let them get away and don't let them get away with it!!!

    Tell all your friends and neighbors.

    Plaster a few hundred of these around and see if they don't stop.

  •  I have to say, (3.90)
    I'm pretty surprised by the number of people who are expressing skepticism over this.  This is a very good example of the same kind of voter intimidation that we have been pointing out elsewhere, and an example of the kind of intimidation directed towards voting blacks for a very long time now.  There's nothing new or surprising about this, you could take the same text and put it in a thousand other flyers passed out over the last few decades, and it'd fit right in.  What did you think voter intimidation looked like, did you think the flyers would be truthful?

    Much like "police roadblocks" set up near voting stations or various other schemes (some official and some not) the goal is to frighten blacks and other minorities into staying away from the polls, by making them think they might be faced with legal consequences -- or at minimum, police harassment -- if they do show up to vote.

    Of course, the entire premise of the flyer, as with the other attacks, is to play on the expectation in some minority neighborhoods that the police will automatically treat them as criminals whenever and wherever they meet them.  Sadly, that fear is indeed widespread in some communities.  That's why these things work.  It's not directed at actual criminals.  It's directed at all the minorities who inherently believe they will be treated as criminals, if they show up to the polls and the police are there to challenge them.

    So kudos that we've come far enough that people don't recognize this for what it is -- a fairly common Jim Crow-style intimidation technique that's been around for decades -- but I'm sorry, this stuff does happen, and it does work.  If you lived in some of these neighborhoods, you might not think this was over-the-top at all.

    The fact that it is happening in 2004 is nauseating, but not at all surprising.

    •  Well, some skepticism is a healthy thing (none)
      Like with WMD's f'rinstance..

      I am not saying it's fake, of course. I am saying that I want to go to the link and see this and I don't. So why not?

      I am just askin' questions.

      Y'know, kinda like that guy Socratese.

      Only less smart...

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:26:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. (none)
        Skepticism is good.  I'd like verification too.

        Just saying, to those who think it's too "over the top" to be real... it's not.  It says pretty typical stuff.

        (And keep in mind, the kind of people who print these things up aren't typically all that bright, in the grand scheme of things.)

    •  Seeking verification (4.00)
      is a matter of prudence - not a question of denying that such tactics exist.  I have to say that I also find it extremely unbelievable.  You'd have to be pretty gullible to swallow such patently absurd statements.  The sheer number and audacity of them would - I should think - get folks to shake their heads and say, "WTF is this bullshit?"  Are people so uninformed as to believe such a poster?  

      I'm Canadian who lived in the States for a couple of years, and I have to say nothing much about US electoral politics surprises me anymore.  I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP were distributing this to suppress votes, and that people actually believed what it said; and I wouldn't be surprised if anti-GOP people were distributing this to make the GOP look bad.  I think we all just need to reserve judgement.

      "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

      by fishhead on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:12:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Julian Bond (none)
      i read this interview with Julian Bond last night.  he's not surprised.

      Buy Renewable Energy Now! Choose Your Power or Green Tags

      by drh on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:48:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  who knows whether he's surprised (none)
        he's saying what it's useful to say -- using this as a way to stoke up black folks to vote.  

        This flyer will help us, not hurt us.  I doubt it's real, but if it makes some voters more mad and determined, so be it.

    •  Abso-frickin'-lutely! (4.00)
      Anyone who doubts that stuff like this can Happen Here is kidding themselves. I've seen the race thing worked the other way, too.  Back in the 60s the Republican machine in Delaware Co. PA hired some poor blacks off the street in Chester and had them drive around affluent Main Line neighborhoods in old jalopies looking at the houses.  The point of course was to scare the white homeowners into thinking that these black folks were about to move in next door and to ensure that said homeowners kept voting Republican.  I am not making this up.  Shit like this happens in America and always has.  Where have some of you been all this time?!
    •  Voter terrorism (4.00)
      Salon had an article last month called "Voter terrorism."

      For decades, Republicans have mounted highly organized operations to discourage minorities from voting. Experts say there's no reason to believe this year's presidential campaign will be any different. [...]

      The voter-intimidation campaign that Republicans mounted in Philadelphia was not an anomaly. Instead, it marked a routine occurrence in American elections, a national scandal that rarely makes the front page. The sad fact is that voter-intimidation efforts aimed at minorities have been carried out in just about every major election over the past 20 years. The campaigns are almost always mounted by Republicans who aim to reduce the turnout of overwhelmingly Democratic minority voters at the polls.

      If you dig into the materials, this flyer is nothing people -- don't be so incredulous.

      The GOP Deploys, 2/1/04

      According to Democratic consultant Tom Lindenfeld, who ran the counter-intimidation program for the campaign of Democrat John Street [last November], the Republicans assembled a fleet of 300 cars driven by men with clipboards bearing insignias or decals resembling those of such federal agencies as Drug Enforcement Agency and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Thus arrayed, says Lindenfeld, these pseudo-cops spent election day cruising Philadelphia's African American neighborhoods and asking prospective voters to show them some identification -- an age-old method of voter intimidation. "What occurred in Philadelphia was much more expansive and expensive than anything I'd seen before, and I'd seen a lot," says Lindenfeld, who ran similar programs for the campaigns of Harvey Gantt in North Carolina and other prominent Democrats. In a post-election poll of 1,000 black voters, 7 percent of them said they had encountered these efforts (this being Philadelphia, there were allegations of violence and intimidation against Street supporters as well). Lindenfeld employed 800 people to confront the GOP's faux-agents at polling places.

      Another one:

      In Dillon County, S.C., in 1998, Son Kinon, a Republican state official, mailed out 3,000 brochures to black voters warning, "You have always been my friend, so don't chance GOING TO JAIL on Election Day! ... SLED [South Carolina Law Enforcement Division] agents, FBI agents, people from the Justice Department and undercover agents will be in Dillon County working this election. People who you think are your friends, and even your neighbors, could be the very ones that turn you in. THIS ELECTION IS NOT WORTH GOING TO JAIL!!!!!!"

      Read the PFAW/NAACP report The Long Shadow of Jim Crow: Voter Intimidation and Suppression in America Today for a looooong list of examples.

      BTW, Democrats weren't innocent by any means.  Bond says:

      Before the Voting Rights Act [of 1965] was passed, this [black-voter suppression] was the exclusive province of Democrats. But the Voting Rights Act made two things happen. First, Democrats who were resistant to equality migrated in large numbers to the Republican Party. And the Democratic Party, which had been hostile to black voters, became welcoming. When LBJ signed the law, he said to an aide, "We're giving the South to the Republican Party for a generation." The parties traded places.

      Buy Renewable Energy Now! Choose Your Power or Green Tags

      by drh on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:31:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And Another Example of Vote Suppression Ohio Style (4.00)
    This story came to me today secondhand.  A friend I have in Philadelphia forwarded this email, and vouched for the source as a friend of his in Toledo:

    "This is really just a message to vent and to spread the word that I
    truly do not believe the election in Ohio will be a fair one. Yesterday,
    I received a letter from the county board of elections stating that some
    random woman named Joelle has challenged my right to vote. she
    filed a petition to the county saying that I am not a real person, that
    I do not live in Ohio and therefore my name is to be removed from the
    voter registration list and I will not be allowed to vote on Tuesday. If
    I want to contest this, because obviously the burden of proof should be
    on me to prove that I exist rather than on Joelle actually proving that
    I don't exist before filing such a petition, I have to attend a court
    hearing this Saturday at 11am and testify that am eligible to vote. But
    it is not just me. Two other people in my department alone also got this
    letter. And so did 928 other individuals in Toledo. Interestingly if you
    look at the list of people being challenged what you see are
      academics and people residing in poor areas of town. Draw your own
    conclusions. I am furious. I can't believe that this person is able to,
    on no basis whatsoever, just decide that people are not eligible to
    vote. I registered to vote back in august following all the proper
    procedures. I should not be required to spend all day Saturday in court
    trying to get my right to vote back because some woman claims I do not
    exist.  One of the other faculty members in the department has already
    contacted an attorney. If I can not vote on Tuesday you better believe
    that all hell will break lose."

    My Friend says that his friend and the mysterious Joelle have both been contacted by CNN.  I'm curious if this story gets any more attention because it seems like a classic Republican outrage to me.

    •  last i heard (4.00)
      the courts put a stop to all of these ore election day challenges in Ohio. seems the judge recognized it for what it was. the problem is that these challenges can be issued in person, and the people in charge at the polls arent as bold about telling official looking people to get the hell out. it is quite worrisome, because even if the victims of such challenges can vote, the time it takes to make such judgements can get ridiculous, and that can make waits at the polls too long. democrats in minority heavy areas are especially likely to need to get to work (1st or 2nd job)or get home to take care of kids, etc. that makes long waits much to bush's advantage.
    •  Your friend's friend shouldn't worry (3.50)
      A U.S. District Court judge Wednesday effectively ended efforts by Republicans in Ohio to challenge the eligibility of tens of thousands of voters in this battleground state.
      •  Yes, but-- (none)
        the AG and the Repugs in OH appealed to the circuit court.  Bastards.

        A hearing is set for tomorrow at 10:30, I heard.

        We were marching for the children, we were marching for the poor. Now we're marching for self-interest-- we'll march forevermore.

        by andlorr on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 09:39:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  that ruling is being appealed (none)
      and not all of the challenges were covered in the ruling.

  •  Considerations (3.83)
    I believe this is already being discussed and debunked on the Black Radio Station in Milwaukee, and some of their discussion has been picked up by Wisconsin Public Radio (statewide).  

    Since Milwaukee has a very good chance of electing a Black Congresswoman this year (yes, a Democrat), her campaign has a real interest in this matter.  

    Wisconsin has fairly strict fair campaign practices laws, and they enforce them fairly strictly.  Key thing is to get the Wisconsin State Officials aware of this and let them do the public debunking of the flyer.  Flyer is clearly illegal as it does not contain a proper disclaimer.  

    •  strict fair campaign practices laws (none)
      "Flyer is clearly illegal as it does not contain a proper disclaimer."

      Soooo, did they catch and punish the people who were distributing the flyers?  That should stop it, right?

      Or barring that, you'll have the officials publically and widely denounce the flyers as false?  Yea.

      "There's nothing like waking up... getting a cup of coffee and getting in the pickup truck and driving around looking at the cows." --GW Bush

      by JOyODurham on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:36:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel news tips page... (none) it is-- write and see if they'll pick it up:

    Glad black radio's already on the picture; if we can get this into the J-S and on local TV it will make the WI GOP look as bad as they likely deserve to look.

  •  I clicked the link, and found NO information on (4.00)
    the flyer.

    Do other people find information on the flyer at:


  •  Positive flyers don't need verification first!! (none)
    this comment

    with suggestions for a positive flyer is excellent. Flyers like this can be distributed through the churches because it is non-partisan voter education. People can go ahead with this part while the authenticity is being checked. It would be valuable to do in any case; this just makes it that much more urgent.

    George "W is for weak" Bush - He's not my pet goat!

    by Wee Mama on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:34:05 PM PDT

  •  HOLY (none)
    HOLY SHIT.  This is as low as it gets.  Hopefully our groups can counter this...

    This is guilty of so many travesties.  To name a few: 1) Assuming that black voters are ignorant and don't know voting rules.
    2)Assuming that black voters will be fooled by this kind of thing.
    3)Blatant lies and fraud.
    4)Disrespect for democracy.

    ... I coud go on and on.  This is so sad.  I don't know what to say.  We have to counter this will all of our efforts.  

    To Wisconsin this weekend.  Victory will be ours.  End this regime.  

  •  Google? (none)
    I just googled MBVl and nothing showed up.  Is this a true organization?  It seems a bit over the top even for the GOP.

    "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

    by fabooj on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 06:52:34 PM PDT

  •  This should be a serious crime. (none)
    Akin, in terms of punishment, to rape or murder, or at least assault or robbery.

    This is a blatant attempt to undermine Democracy.

  •  It's not just african american votes (4.00)
    and it's not at all subtle

    Take a look at this

    Ninety-five Hispanic voters in Atkinson County were summoned to a courthouse hearing Thursday to defend their right to vote after a complaint alleged a county commissioner attempted to register non-U.S. citizens.

    Now a voting challenge that some call a political vendetta has forced 78 percent of the rural county's registered Hispanics to defend their citizenship or their ballots won't be counted in next week's elections.

    The American Civil Liberties Union has gotten involved because three local men who filed the complaint selected the voters by asking the Board of Registrars for a list of all Hispanics registered in the county.

    "There's a definite concern we have that this sort of action has the purpose or will have the effect of deterring people who are Hispanic from voting," said Gerald Weber, legal director for the ACLU of Georgia. "Some of the folks on that list were born and raised in the United States."

    The complaint's filers say they have evidence County Commissioner Jerry Metts attempted to help non-U.S. citizens register so they could vote for him in the July 20 Democratic primary. Metts won by 16 votes and faces no opposition in the general election Tuesday.

    Linda Davis, chief registrar in Atkinson County, said she provided the men with a list of the 121 voters on the rolls who listed their race as Hispanic or Mexican. She said the men decided to challenge 95 of them.

    "They asked for all Hispanics. They did not say just Hispanics who had registered for the election in July," Davis said. "Some of these people have been registered since 1996."

  •  We need a constitutional amendment (3.80)
    One more reason to pass a constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to vote to every citizen.

    And as I'm going to say it until it happens: we need national voter cards.  When citizens turn 17 their national voter registration card should be sent to them in the mail and the information should be easy to update through the DMV and/or the post office.

    "If they don't do their duty by the Democratic Party, they are the most ungrateful people in the world!" -Harry Truman

    by DWCG on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:30:03 PM PDT

    •  Amen! (none)
      Your absolutely right.  During Kerry's term as president I hope that he addresses this.  We are told that we are free, but the constitution doesn't even protect us with the most fundamental right of democracy (to vote).  If indeed an amendment does pass it would prevent something like this flyer from dettering people from the polls of November 2.
  •  Wow! (none)
    This flyer makes me sick.  I hope that it is just a joke.  If it isn't then how low could you get?  You don't help out democracy you only prevent it.  I hope that people don't take this seriously and not come out to vote.  We need everyone that we can get on November 2.  We have the numbers and the Bush supporters know it.  Why would someone pull off something like this if they didn't think that Kerry was going to annihilate Bush during the election?  Let's show them that their tricks can't deter us from speaking our minds and voting how we want to vote.
    I'm not/doubting that real voter suppression goes on, or that /kind of stuff is done. But this is awfuly suspicious.

    There's nothing on this guy's site about this flyer. Has anyone heard of anyone else encountering this particular flyer? Milwaukee's a big city - if they're passing these out, someone would have seen it.

    And it looks absolutely ridiculous, too.

    If people from this site start screaming about this, and it turns out to be a hoax (and a poorly done one at that), it will kill the reputation of this site.

    my weblog and my website - they're, uh, in progress, OK?

    by snookybeh on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 07:44:00 PM PDT

    •  You are ignorant (none)
      The history of this tactic has been well-documented in this very thread. Can you not read?
      •  hamletta (none)
        I guess I missed the history of republicans developing poorly conceived flyers that few if any black voters would take seriously, and then only distributing them on the windshield of one white Sierra Club volunteer.  Maybe that means I can't read.

        Just about every other example anyone has offered makes sense.  this piece makes no sense.  it's not that republicans aren't that low, it's that they're smart enough to do vote suppression in a way that might work.  

      •  just in case... (none)
        you check back and read this later, no - I'm not ignorant of this kind of thing happening, hamletta. I said that. I've seen this kind of thing, and worse, happen.

        But the fact that Republicans pull crap like this doesn't mean this particular thing is legit. Christ, I'm not defending these people, what I'm saying is this flyer looks rather suspicious, and an enterprising Freeper would just as likely make a fake flyer, plant it among the blogs and such, and sit back and watch and laugh as we make fools of ourselves.

        The history of this tactic has been well-documented in this very thread. Can you not read?

        hamletta, I have a history this week of staying on my diet and exercising, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to cave in to the urge to order pizza and flop on the couch eating and watching TV all weekend.

        If more evidence shows is found that this particular flyer is legit, go for it - shout it from the highest metaphorical mountain. But we'll do a lot more damage to the cause if we scream about this and it turns out to be a hoax. We'll kill the legitimacy that Kos, and others, have worked hard to achieve.

        Concentrate on the stuff we know. There's PLENTY to go around.

        my weblog and my website - they're, uh, in progress, OK?

        by snookybeh on Fri Oct 29, 2004 at 04:58:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Noise (none)
    This flyer, the "terrorist video," and similar things is getting a lot of attention, but I think we need to calm down and verify this is legit. If we cry wolf too many times, people will begin to tune out REAL problems. Maybe that's the point.
  •  If... (2.00)
    If anyone falls for this, I don't care what color they are, they're too stupid to vote.

    And to be perfectly clear here, I don't believe anyone is that stupid.

    •  It's not a Question of Stupid or Not Stupid (4.00)
      It's a question of Fear.  People who live in low-income inner-city black neighborhoods often spend their lives being afraid of the Law and afraid of the Cops.  To someone in that milieu, it might seem like the smart thing to do not to take chances with the law by "violating" any of the restrictions on that bogus pamphlet.

      This whole thread reminds me of that great Depression-era Margaret Bourke-White photo "There's No Way Like The American Way". Some people seem stuck inside that billboard, unable even to conceive of a world that isn't affluent, pleasant, and secure.

  •  Broward County, FL (4.00)
    I just got this email forwarded -- it's from a totally reliable source.  The person who wrote it works for ACORN.  Remember as you read it that Broward County is where 50,000 absentee ballots went missing, and that provisional voting is definitely NOT as good as regular voting.

    Via email:

    The Broward Supervisor of Elections Office is out of control.  After the election we need to hold them accountable.  I'll give you a selection of
    quotes from various higher level elections officials:
    "I've got more important things to do than to help this man vote."

    "What's important in registering voters is "quality not quantity.""

    "You brought too many voter registration cards to our office.  We had to hire extra staff."

    When pressuring a member to give up his attempt to fully vote:
    "Provisional voting is the same as voting on the machine, I'll give you a happy 'I voted' sticker and that will be the end of it."

    "There is no difference between provisional voting and real voting."

    "Provisional voting is actually better in a way."    

    "ACORN is under investigation, what are you doing here?"

    The right to vote is dependent upon "your legal obligation to be a good citizen."

    "I don't care about the law, this is our system."

    "We have our policy. If your interpretation of the law conflicts with our policy take it up after the election."

    "ACORN should not come to this polling site again."

    Again to a member: "It's not the worst thing in the world if you don't vote this time. There is always next time."

    Additionally, when needlessly registering an already registered vote, the poll worker failed to check the box that affirms "I am a citizen."  This  would have gone uncorrected had I not noticed it.  When I noticed it the woman accused me of interfering and, unsuccessfuly, tried to to kick me out of the polling site, though she did correct the error.  

  •  Absolutely despicable. (none)

    "Today there is no substantial challenge to American ideals. The question is this: Where, with all our wealth and capabilities, do we lead mankind?" Gen. Clark

    by theprogressivemiddle on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 08:01:13 PM PDT

  •  2 things (none)
    Two things make me doubt the validity of this.  Not that this sort of thing doesn't go on, I'm just skeptical of this specific flyer.  First, the mispelling of guilty ('guiulty') and the part that says "your children will get taken away from you" which just seems over the top and satirical to me...
  •  a word on satire (none)
    if i were making a satirical anti-vote thingy like this, i wouldn't say it was from the "milwaukee black voters league." i would say it was from "get out the vote 2004" or "the rich republican's guide for uninformed voters" or something like that. for satire to work it has to be just beyond credible.

    why would a black voters league send out something to suppress the vote? that's not that effective or funny as far as satire goes.

    my 2 cents

  •  If I ever caught someone doing this... (4.00)
    so help me, I will tie them to my car with piano wire and drag them around town. This is the lowest form of scum spreading this type of BS. Shooting them is too kind for them, unless it promises an extremely slow and painful death. If I see anyone down here (Orlando) pulling that shit, they had better be packing heat, because I'll get all cruel and unusual on their ass.

    Support our troops. Vote for them!

    by BullitNutz on Thu Oct 28, 2004 at 09:40:08 PM PDT

  •  Have you all seen this? (none)
    From the county where my mom lives in Ohio: Phony letters tell people they cannot vote
  •  Wisconsin.......... (none)
     Well, it's pretty believable to me since I'm from here, was a poll watcher in 2000 and saw some pretty unbelievable stuff right before my eyes.
     And, don't think it stops in urban areas. Burlington, WI city clerk refused to swear in a young man, Patrick Sullivan of Burlington and a student at UW Whitewater affiliated with Citizens for Change (a grassroots groups just started to specifically campaign for Kerry in Burlinton and surrounding areas), as a registra so he could register voters after the city hall closes at 5pm. You know, so people who work until then can still have a chance to register in advance?
      Well, she refused on the grounds that she didn't want to, period. And now it seems that even though originally the election commission of Wisconsin said he did have that right and she was breaking the law have now changed their minds and are backing her up. This wouldn't be so terrible but then she did decide to swear in some underage high school girls so they could register high school students that are 18.  Hmmmmmm, wonder who the girls are supporting?
     The story ran in the journal times of Racine or the milwaukee jounal sentinal (can't remember which one off hand) and was also carried by the Burlington Standard Press.
     If anyone has a website that would be willing to cover this story I would be forever grateful, as well as the rest of the Citizens for Change group. It seems that only the internet set care about doing real reporting lately. And I know the locals are fearful of Burlington getting bad press since they are trying to lure new residents in. This would be really sweet to come out before the election so we could show it around town.
     It's a gloves off election even in pleasantville aka Burlington.  kay
  •  not in America (none)
    There seems to be a lot of wild conspiracy theories going around. The next thing you know, you'll hear that CIA operatives introduced crack cocaine into the black community. Fortunately , that kind of stuff doesn't happen here, so we can rest easy.


  •  Actually.... wrong target (none)
    "if you've ever been convicted of a crime.."

    "If anyone in your family has been convicted...."

    ought to scare off bigwig coporate types more than anyone else.

    Hand these out in THOSE neighborhoods and you might get lots of people to stay home

  •  Reported Sierra Club Source (none)
    ...of the document responded to my email inquiry overnight.  He said that what I had described sounded very much like something he had seen in the Milwaukee area where he is canvasing voters on behalf of the Club.  I referred him to this site, since I'm not computer savy enough to have attached a copy of the site's image.  Maybe we will hear more from him today, but sounds like this thing may indeed be real.  If so, it should be pushed out there in the real world for everyone else to see.  Believe it or not, not everyone knows what Dailykos is (at least the SIerra Club guy didn't seem to).
  •  Wisconsin Law (none)
    I helped canvass in Madison last week, and the law is that a person can vote as long as they're "off paper" - in other words, if they've completed their parole.  Also, they can register at the polls the day of the election by showing proof of residence (utility bill, etc.) Of course, photo ID would be useful too.  I won't even dignify the rest of the stuff on the pamphlet with commentary.  Please let the local media catch this person on tape...
  •  Volunteer Lawyer Voter Protection Program (none)
    Is anyone here participating in this? I am going to New Mexico to help defend against spot challenges to voter eligibility.  I will let you guys know if I witness any intimidation tactics while there.
  •  The Wisconsin Sec. of State's ofc. replies!! (none)

    Out of a sense of intense moral outrage over this, I took the liberty of emailing this to several people, such as the Racine County Democratic Party Chairman & Vice Chairs, and to the Wisconsin Secretary of State. Never really expected areply- mainly a catharsis on my part.

    Lo & behold, I get the following reply from Susan Churchill of the Sec. of State's ofc:

    From  "Churchill, Susan"  
    Sent  Friday, October 29, 2004 10:09 am
    To  "''"  
    Subject  RE: Milwaukee Black Voters League flyer??
    Hi Larry,

    I can see why you are concerned.  In Wisconsin, the State Elections Baord
    oversees matters related to elections and voting.  I would suggest you
    contact may visit their website at

    Best Regards,


    -----Original Message-----
    From: []
    Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:23 PM
    Subject: Milwaukee Black Voters League flyer??


    This inflammatory flyer is apparently being distrubited in Milwaukee's
    African-American community. Could you please look into this?

    Larry Faust

    Care to guess where this will be emailed next? :-)

    throw the bastards out, Larry

  •  Not shot (none)
    "Whomever is responsible for the distribution of this flier ought to be shot."

    I disagree.  They should not be shot.  They should be stripped of their American citizenship and exiled.

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