Daily Kos

Sit Down

Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:33:11 PM PDT

I got my hair cut yesterday.  A normal thing, something I scheduled a month ago, when I had my last haircut.  I figured at that time that today would probably be a happy day, or at worst a mixed day; I was working with the folks opposing my state's so-called "gay marriage" amendment, and we knew that battle was uphill, but I figured Kerry would win, probably by a big margin.  Obviously I was wrong on that count, and I've had a damn hard time finding the silver lining in what was for me personally another case of a moral but not an electoral victory.  

There were a total of five other people in the salon while I was there.  I didn't hear anything said by two of them.  Of the other three, each talked about leaving the country.  I live in the Detroit area, so it's not uncommon for people to glibly talk about moving to Canada.  While writing about the Canadian supreme court decision in 2003 to legalize gay marriage, Hendrick Hertzberg described Canada as "the kind of country that makes you proud to be a North American."  As the grandchild of four Canadian-born immigrants to the U.S. who's spent plenty of time there, I can attest that he's right in lauding Canada, and I can especially understand why a lot of gay couples are seriously considering leaving Michigan for Canada.  But until yesterday, I hadn't noticed the despair in the voices of straight people talking about leaving for Canada.  My whole life I've heard about people seeking liberty and opportunities and freedom from oppression immigrating to the United States.  Now I'm hearing people in search of liberty, opportunity and freedom from oppression talking about emigrating from the United States.  

To anyone entertaining those thoughts, I say sit down.  Sitting down and refusing to budge is one of our nation's greatest legacies.  The modern labor movement achieved its power in the 1930's through the use of sit-down strikes, and as late as 1989 the United Mine Workers were still successfully using a sit-down strike against Pittston Coal.  Rosa Parks' refusal to give up her bus seat and the sit-ins conducted by black students in the South inspired civil rights workers and drew attention to the indignities and injustices of Jim Crow.  Throughout our history, the obstinate refusal to give ground where they believed justice was on their side has empowered people to bring about important changes that have made our country a better place to live, enjoy liberty, and pursue happiness.  

We're at one of those junctures in our history where people need to figuratively sit down.  We can not flee.  We can't leave the work of building and strengthening a progressive majority to hold of Bush and the rightwing to someone else.  Before we start to tell people that Bush does not have a mandate, we ourselves must internalize that fact.  We must remember that this election was, once again, excruciatingly close.  For the first time in nearly 200 years, the United States was attacked on the North American continent, and the presiding President squandered 80% approval ratings for his initial response to that attack and had to wait until the morning after the election to find out that the most votes ever cast against an incumbent President were, barely, not enough to drive him from the White House.  We must not forget that the momentous meaning of Bush's victory could be great but that the margin was modest.  We must remember that even though a narrow majority of voters chose Bush over Kerry, it does not follow that a majority want the kind of nation and government that Bush and his minions surely hope to create.  Then, we must stand firm and hold our ground.    

Please, no more talk about leaving for Canada.  No more searching around for European-born grandparents so you can get an EU passport; leave the dual-citizenship shenanigans to washed-up athletes who can't make the US Olympic team and tax-dodgers hiding out from the IRS.  No more talk about giving up on your country, your state, your local community, your party, or on politics.  No more thoughts that might lead you to allow an electoral defeat to defeat you.  

How you chose to respond to this defeat will not just affect you, what you chose to do will affects us all.  Regardless of what Rove and the big-media spinmeisters may say, we're not the party of me, we're the party of us.  When we are at our best, we are the party that exemplifies unity and solidarity.  And if you leave the country or your community or politics, that's a loss for us--and not just those of us who voted for Kerry instead of Bush, but for all Americans.

Feel glum if you need to; I sure do.  But don't wander away.  Hold your ground.  And don't stop fighting back.  We all need you.

  • ::

Tags: 2004 Elections, protests, Canada, editorial (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 410 comments

  •  Fight (none / 0)

    Yes, why just hand the whole country over to them?
    •  umm, (none / 0)

      but Vancouver is so damn beautiful!  You've got Whistler (2010 Olympics), Granville Island, the ferries to Victoria, the friendliest, intelligent, active, MOST GOREGOUS women in the world

      ahhh, drool, drool.

      sorry.  what was i talking about???

      ohhhh, ok!  sheeesh!  but i was going back up there b/c it's just damn beautiful & i lived there!!

      the rest of you have no excuse!  

      & hell, i have friends there who were fighting for us -- so damn it, let's git to work!

      •  oh (none / 1)

        & if you guys want something to pass the time

        http://www.poets.org/booth/booth.cfm

        nothing like poetry to make ya realize life doesn't suck.

        well, unless your listening to plath.  stay away from the windows!

        8-o

        •  My theory (none / 1)

          there's no more headroom for growth in the GOP. This is it. Their total max. Their ceiling (included the 4M right wing evangelicals) Now, about 8 million voters die between every election cycle. Assuming 4M Dems and 4M Repugs, this means that by 08 the Dems will easily be able to replace those 4M with younger liberal voters, but the repugs will have a hard time finding new old-fashioned radical right wingers to replace their 4M. Win for the Dems.
          Another point, not all bush voters voted for "values" I know some who are liberals but voted for chimp just because of "security" and fresh memory of 9/11. Barren another major attack it won't happen next time.

          Lastly, the last time a bush ran against another liberal from MA (1988) bush Sr won by about 8%! during peace time! add to that the fact that we're in the middle of a "war" and no war president has ever lost... this alone would give our current "war president" an extra 10 points. SO, bush Jr should've won by about 20% points, a landslide. But he didn't!! He barely won by 3%!!!

          Had 9/11 not happened, the most liberal senator from MA, (more liberal than Dukakis or Ted Kennedy) the most liberal candidate ever to run for president, a so called "traitor" for protesting the war in vietnam, would have WON the presidency!!! how far we've come since 1988!

          Plus, we have the youth vote and the independent vote. I don't know about you, but I have high hopes for 08! and make no mistake about it, the radical right wing is a very small minority!

          •  the party of old white men (none / 0)

            has nowhere to go but the grave

            Don't play the other guy's game. - Damon Runyon

            by SpiderHole on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:05:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Those Young'ns (none / 0)

            Except the youth vote didn't increase by any dramatic amount this time around.  Sure, the sheer number of them increased but they made up the same percentage of the electorate.
            •  Make people think (none / 0)

              I've started talking to my many Rethug acquaintences, most of them are either rich or think that Bush is religious.  Once they see that he is slaughtering people for no reason they may change their minds.  Many TV-watchers have  no idea what is really going on in the world.

              Watch the faces of Rethugs with 18 year old sons when you ask them if they think their son should be in Iraq.  The selfish ones just assume that their child won't be sent so they don't worry about the poor people in the army and NG.  Some few who have some compassion for others may change their thinking when they read some of the letters from the soldiers that Michael Moore is collecting.

              Of course his movie was powerful but the selfish Rethugs would not dare to watch it, they know all about it from Rush and the millionaire bubble-heads on the nightly news.

      •  See, now THIS is one of the good reasons (none / 1)

        I mentioned.

        There's an artist, can't remember who at the moment, from the 1920s, and he used to take off from NYC and go to Europe regularly. For extended stays. And he said "you know, people would say to me, aren't you just running away?" And I thought about it, and I always wanted to say "Well, maybe, a little. But you know, I'm running TOWARD something also. I mean, there is an entire world over there you know..."

        (See my other posts here/my diary for the larger context)

        •  I'm trying to convince my wife.... (none / 0)

          that by the time we retire (15-20 years, Medicare will be no more. But you can still buy into health insurance in Mexico and Central America for much less than here. I'm learning Spanish and hope she sees the light.
          As a parallel, Brit civil servants would move to India and live there for a song ( and they speak the language). I prefer Latin American comida.
        •  Yes. (none / 0)

          "But you know, I'm running TOWARD something also. I mean, there is an entire world over there you know..."

          After a day and a half of despondency, I realized that 4 more years of Bush won't affect MY life, but it WILL affect the lives of those who voted for him.  My 3 kids [all of draft age] are in a position to leave the country if a draft is initiated.  I'll stay here until my elderly mother dies or blowback changes the mood for the 2008 election.

          In the meantime, I'm concentrating on finding a method of voting that all Americans trust.  If we don't do this FIRST, future elections will be meaningless.

    •  Another reason to stay and fight (none / 1)

      Republicans are quickly jumping upon this theme and redefining it as another example of our "elitism".  Even though the overwhelming majority of Kerry supporters aren't Europhilic, East Coast, Ivy League liberals, our thoughts of emigration represent, in their political vocabulary, our supposed imposition of elite values upon America.  They see our dismay and portray us as thinking, "Why don't they think like us?" or "Why aren't they enlightened like we are?".  The reason we need to stay is to show that capital-D Democratic values are American values.  That the Democratic Party draws its values and strength from regular Americans.  That we - all of us - have the power to change our country because it belongs to all of us.

      http://gumped.blogspot.com

      by Radio Free Derry on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:49:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm making a rule (4.00 / 2)

        for myself. I've stopped caring what the GOP thinks or what they say about us. Because even if we act with total patriotism and love of country and reach out to them in a spirit of bipartisan friendship, they spit in our faces.

        So, who cares what Limbaugh says, or any other GOP goon?

        We need only care what we think and how we want to bring this country back to where it should be before the hard right hijacked it.

        One thing I will say, we need to figure out how to fight like they do. No holds barred.

    •  And furthermore-- (none / 1)

      Where the hell are 55 million Americans gonna go?  Who would have us?  Hardly anybody even likes Americans anymore.  Impractical.  Furthermore, even if Canada would be willing to absorb us, we might find that it wasn't such a pleasant place to live once Canadians had become a minority there.  Like Groucho said, I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.  ;-)
      •  asdf (4.00 / 2)

        actually, people overseas do love Americans who are critical of u.s. govt. bullshit policies. Hell, I get free beers just for being the critical anti-establishment American that I am.
        •  Yeah, but the novelty would wear off eventually-- (none / 0)

          And then you'd have to pay for your own beer.  (g)
          •  adfa (none / 0)

            hasn't worn off yet for me.  And even if i had to pay for my own beer, the rational conversations i can have with people overseas are so cool, i'll buy them beers......rational non-american framed conversations....priceless.
            •  Yes, it's very cool being an American expatrite-- (none / 0)

              But if too many of the rest of us joined you, you'd stop being an expatrite, and you'd become a despised ethnic minority, and rightwing politicians would get into office by promising to throw you out.  (g)

              I'm not dissing your choice.  I'm not dissing other countries.  I'm just saying to all the people who say "I'm moving to Canada/France/wherever"--WHO INVITED YOU?

              ;-)

              •  asfsd (none / 0)

                dude, i've already been a dispised ethnic minority.  I'm ain't white.
                •  RSV fucking P (none / 0)

                  yeah me neither. and to top it off, i ain't straight. currently i dont feel particularly "invited" in this country. i'm not saying i'm leaving. i don't know what i'm doing. but i feel more "invited" to countries that respect human rights, civil liberties and basic human interests. now, it would be rude of me to say that the people of the united states do not respect those things considering 55 million americans voted for that kind of respect. but the truth is our executive, legislative and judicial branches don't. after 12 years of reagan and bush senior we had 8 years of clinton to reverse the damage. the centrist democratic party of those 8 years made some headway but not enough to fix america. we gave that america to 8 years of an ultra right wing bush junior and now we are even further behind. it's a very bad trend and it's just not an "inviting" scenario.

                  Cure This : Let's talk about health justice

                  by nalin on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:20:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You don't NEED to be invited here (none / 0)

                    Anybody who says otherwise can go get stuffed.

                    I just find it comical that after slagging American arrogance and our tendency to take the world's adoration for granted, us lefties are talking like the world would welcome us Bush-haters en masse, with open arms.

                    "Oh sure, Americans!   Here, take my job, please!"

                    It's not that it's a bad option.  It's that it's not an option, period.  Not for most of us.

                    Bitch all you like.  Then get back to work.  

                •  Who said you were? (none / 0)

                  Over there, you're an American.   Like it or not.  

                  We haven't elected a Le Pen yet.

                  We aren't telling Muslim girls what to wear in school, either.

                  It ain't so damn perfect anywhere.  

      •  UK (none / 0)

        We would. Always good to outnumber the French.
    •  le resistance (none / 0)

      hey folks, let's stay and fight. or better yet, resist.

      lots of people want a little excitement, a little spice, a little edge in their lives.

      just think of yourselves and act as members of le maquis in france during the nazi occupation, or as dissidents behind the iron curtain while it was still hanging.

      remember this: le maquis and the dissidents had to contend with prison camps or swift death. as much as these bastards act like thugs, they won't put the whole lot of you behind bars for 'preventative custody.'

      they may rule the country, but they don't rule me.

      and i hope they don't rule you. they will -- if you let them in your minds.

      remember the stirring words of the dec. of independence -- our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

      follow their brave example.

    •  Stand up! (none / 0)

      Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

      by moon in the house of moe on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:04:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  maybe because (none / 0)

      you have children within five years of draft age?  Mine are toddlers, but I've got friends with young adult and teenage children.  They are not happy, especially when they think that every branch of our federal government is now or will soon be overrun.  I might add that some sign that our leaders are willing fight might bring out the fight in the faithfull.

      NetrootNews coming soon!

      by ksh01 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:03:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Flight (none / 0)

      The US was founded on the idea of fleeing from religious oppression. Because of that, the country was founded on the idea of freedom of religion, which most of us interpret to mean freedom *from* religion as well. Well now 51% of voters think that their religious views should be the ones enforced on everybody else. Isn't it time to take the original American values to heart and escape that religious oppression?

      If you stay, you're like a battered wife. You were beaten up 4 years ago, but you gave your husband another chance, but as the glorious leader says:

      There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.

      If you stay, every dollar you pay in federal taxes will go to finance whatever it is Bush dreams up next. Not only will you allow the Republicans to abuse you, you'll pay for them to do it.

      Leave. Come back in 3.5 years to vote again, or find some way to cast an absentee ballot. But don't fund their evil plan, and don't stick around in the hope that in 4 years you can make the vote 49% to 51% in the other direction.

      •  Leaving is the ONLY option (none / 0)

        I agree.  The longer we stay--the more our tax dollars are going to fund wars, megacorporations and the "Christian" right wing.  The ONLY moral solution is to leave.  If we want to do "good works," we can do them from Canada.  I know this might sound harsh, but 99% of our ancestors were immigrants trying to build a better life elsewhere.  It's in our blood--why would we be so wrong to do it ourselves?
  •  They (none / 0)

    will have to make me leave if they can.

    Nothing is more real than nothing. Beckett

    by rx scabin on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:34:17 PM PDT

  •  Bush Won And Pigs (none / 0)

    You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

    by mattman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:35:26 PM PDT

  •  red state thinking vs. global thinking (3.50 / 2)

    Don't forget that expats are ambassadors of what's good about this country to other people.  When I travel overseas, I can't count the times that I've given hope that not everybody in the U.S. is nuts.  All this "don't move" talk smacks of red state thinking.  If people want to move, go for it.  This fight is not just ours, it belongs to the rest of the world.  I don't know if you noticed, but the reactionary trend is creeping up in other parts of the world as well.  You can't tell people not to move because you don't know what sparks they may be able to create overseas.

    Don't be so myopic.  This struggle isn't just our own.

    •  Huh? (none / 1)

      What the hell is "red state thinking?"  And there's a difference between being an emmisary for the US when you travel and somebody who leaves.  

      Besides, my point is I want people who can "create sparks" to create those sparks here in the U.S.  You can call it myopic, I prefer to think of it as an appeal to partiotism.

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:42:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess red-state thinking (none / 0)

        Is what all the Post WWI ex-pats did when they left for the West Bank in Paris. Hemingway, the Fitzgeralds, Gerald and Sarah Murphy, John Dos Passos and all. They're still Americans, and they eventually came back. Rest easy. If we all work at it some, the Right-Wing-Swing can be temporary.

        "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

        by sapper on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:47:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep (4.00 / 3)

          amen.  that's what i'm getting at. different strokes for different folks.  Some people can think alot clearer outside of the circus tent.  

          when i hear people slagging people who want to leave , it's sounds like the same shit the rethugs are spewing when they talk of patriotism and that shit i won't stand for from the right or the left.

      •  wrong. (none / 0)

        as for red state thinking, connect the dots.  As for the difference between being an emissary and leaving, no difference.  Even though someone leaves, they are still American and in a way spreading what is good about us to other parts of the world.  If your gonna knock down people who want to leave because it's not "patriotic" in your eyes, well what's there to say.  You can't argue against patriotism.
  •  I'm Not Backing Down (none / 0)

    Exactly--I think the best feature of Americans is that we don't back down in the face of adversity.  Nor should we back down now.  Indeed, although Bush is stronger today than last week, he isn't stronger than he was a year ago.  His image is terribly tarnished.  Everyone, including those who voted for him knows he's an ass.  They voted for him in spite of it because they were told if they did, Osama would take away their guns and force them to enter into same-sex marriages and get abortions.
  •  I said this yesterday I think ...slightly updated. (3.50 / 4)

    Everyone talks about moving out of the country.
    Lots of folks say "bring back the confederacy, let the hicks down south have what they want and let us have our own country".

    No.  This is my damn country.  3/4 of the country betrayed me on Tuesday, the half that didn't vote and the half that voted wrong, but it's still my damn country.

    Let's move down south.  Let's move to Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, (ok, maybe not texas) Louisiana, North and South Carolina.  Move to Virginia, West Virginia (almost heaven!), Tennessee, and Kentucky.  

    Then we can vote there.

    Then we can take those states back.

    Then we can talk to people, let them see us as not communist satanic demons, but as regular people, and we can see them not as fundie trailer trash, but as real, regular human beings.

    The divisions in this country are a raw wound.  We need to close the wound.  We need to stop demonizing our own countrymen and women, from both sides.

    Part of the neocon agenda is to pour salt into that gaping raw wound that pulls this nation apart.  By perpetuating their hatred and returning it, we only make the wound worse.

    This isn't over.  I still want to see the disenfranchisement in Ohio investigated.  I want Diebold under a microscope.  But that's not going to happen.

    Moving to Canada isn't the solution, plus it's cold there more of the year than it is here.
    Well, maybe not more than Detroit...

    KO sez..."All Hail the Prophetic Gut!" Also, Visit Scenic Buttercupia!

    by JLongs on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:38:29 PM PDT

    •  Come on down to SC (4.00 / 2)

      I don't have any political capital to spend, but I know where you can get some damn fine barbecue, and damn fine New York style pizza to boot.

      "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

      by sapper on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:49:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  bring deodorant! (none / 0)

      um, don't move to texas.  would love to have ya & other liberals.

      but i really wouldn't do that to ya.

      well, at least not houston.  it's the unshaven armpit on delay's ugly body.

      more refiniers than u can shake ah match at, yeeehaw!  & on a clear day, it don't smell like gas-OH-leen!  

      & the nite life -- lemme tell ya boys out yonder -- the nite life is, as them thar frenchies would say, well, zit iz boh-raang!

      really.

      look, let's take over virginia & west virginia & florida -- at least those places are beautiful & very close to blue.

      •  Don't tell me about Texas... (none / 0)

        I lived in Snyder for about five years.  During Reganomics.  Watched the oilfields die as a result, and all the good old boys still kept a-yeehawin'.
        Senseless.
        The cool thing about West Texas is they can talk out there without moving their lips.

        KO sez..."All Hail the Prophetic Gut!" Also, Visit Scenic Buttercupia!

        by JLongs on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:22:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  we need you in Austin (none / 0)

        Travis County went Kerry by 15%.  It's not too bad here most of the time.  The rest of Texas is fucked, though.
        •  I used to live in Austin (none / 0)

          back in the Eighties, and I liked it there just fine, but eventually we moved up North to Seattle, because this is where my wife and I want to live. I grew up in Washington. The weather suits us better here. Our children and grandchildren are here. Our lives are here.

          So thank you all the same but I'm going to stay here. But if I had to choose a place in Texas to live, no contest. It would be Austin.

    •  The South (none / 1)

      You can come down here and take my place. I'm a Southerner, born here and I have lived here for 30 years and it's not getting any better. Not for gay people, not for minorities and definitely not for intellectuals. I'm tired or arguing with the idiots down here and trying to get them to vote in their own self interest.

      Gays, guns and God is a mantra because it is the truth. That is all that they care about and all that they ever will. Even after all of the social progress made since the Civil War, it still hasn't mattered a damn to these people.

      I was seriously considering Canada, but now I think the best thing would be just to head up to a Blue state up East. At least then I could be around people who are sane.

      •  yep (3.75 / 4)

        It's not getting better here for gays. Or blacks, or liberals. Oh, sure, since last year it's not a CRIME to have gay sex, sorry, SODOMY. Well whoopdedo!! And verbally bashing gays is becoming more like saying the 'n-word' in public...only real assholes do it outloud. But they still do it.

        I've had 3 friends fired for being gay. And when I tell my repub/moderate straight friends this, they refuse to believe it. "Well, she must have been a shitty worker, too..." or "no way, they'd get sued for that". No amount of rational discussion will disuade these infantile beliefs.

        So that's the true nature of the right wing victory. They'll fuck you just like before, just not out loud in public. And they've convinced their friends that there's NO WAY they'd EVER act that way. This is the epitome of Gdub. A lie with a beautiful face on it. It's not lipstick on a pig, it's a troll in a model suit, and it works. It's indidious and evil and works every f'in time.

        Sorry for the negativity, but I am still in despair.

      •  The Ignorants SOB's need to be Satirized... (none / 0)

        We need a couple of SitCom's really going after the Ignoramuses. Several Send-Up's of just how backwardass and stupid Middle America can be, with particular lasering of the "Leaders" who exploit fear, ignorance and hate.

        Can someone call Comedy Central?

        Joe Lieberman or a Real Democrat? Choose ABJ for '06

        by AnybodyButJoe06 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:25:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  A sane, Jeffersonian suggestion. (4.00 / 2)

      In 1800, Thomas Jefferson survived a 73-73 electoral tie with Aaron Burr.  That was before the 12th Amendment, so the House of Representatives decided it.  John Adams, then the current president running for a second term, left town to avoid the inauguration ceremony.  Bitter times.

      Here's the first part of the second paragraph of Jefferson's inaugural address:

      During the contest of opinion through which we have passed, the animation of discussions and of exertions has sometimes worn an aspect which might impose on strangers unused to think freely and to speak and to write what they think; but this being now decided by the voice of the nation, announced according to the rules of the Constitution, all will, of course, arrange themselves under the will of the law, and unite in common efforts for the common good. All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression. Let us, then, fellow-citizens, unite with one heart and one mind. Let us restore to social intercourse that harmony and affection without which liberty and even life itself are but dreary things. And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.

      •  Thank You dicebucket (none / 1)

        Just wanted to thank you for that Jefferson quote. I've been struggling very hard with my anger and hatred. Is anyone else having fantasies of finding a Republican and screaming at them for an hour about how they are destroying the very foundation of our country? Or of spray painting "What the fuck is wrong with you people" on a rural church? Just feeling a bit wacko. Probably not a great way to introduce myself to this blog, but oh well.

        I really feel that I learned a deep lesson of what the rule of law is about. I understand better why people in other countries go out and start killing each other. It is out of the belief that the other side is threatening what you hold so dear that you would die for it. The principles of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, the separation of church and state, freedom for dissent, a free press are all incredibly rare in the world, and their lack causes immense suffering and injustice. I really feel that the republican party and the Bush cabal are undermining the fundamental values that make America America. But the difference between us and a more chaotic country is that we won't go out and start killing each other. That is what civilization means. Living with and tolerating people who you absolutely despise- finding another way to fight for what you believe in.

        So I appreciate any help with trying to get in touch with that higher way and let go of my vengeful, righteous fury.

        Wish me luck. I am THIS CLOSE to calling that obnoxious Bush supporter who somehow got on my call list who made a sign "Communists for Kerry" and telling her that I think she is responsible for the accelerating decline of this country, that she should be ashamed to have supported the party of intolerance, hypocricy, and greed.

        I guess that would make me an intolerant hypocrite though...

        •  Yeah - I have this ongoing (none / 0)

          conversation to an imaginary right winger - "Don't you know you have made this war legitimate and you now have the blood of 100,000 Iraqis and over 1000 Americans on your hands?"  It was Bush's war and they've decided to save him from his own guilt.
      •  But things have devolved since Jefferson (none / 1)

        ...made this statement:

        And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered,  

        We're back to religious intolerance in this nation. People are suffering. It's time for another revolution.

    •  we can't move there (none / 0)

      or at least I can't, there isn't any work for me there.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:16:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nothing could be finer than to be (none / 0)

      in Carolina in the Morning (North Carolina that is.. ).. I live here. .born in Michigan.. raised in Ohio.. Liberal College Professor for a father.. ultra Liberal Mother.. also live in NC.. Moore County home of John Edwards.. so.. Come on down.. learn to say y'all.. taste eastern and western style BBQ. that is PORK BBQ.. gets addicting.. We need you here.. oh and the King Of Mayberry.. Endored the DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR ..that would be Andy Griffith for those that don't know.

      Come on Down..  

  •  Meh (4.00 / 7)

    I don't really feel all that strongly that America is MY country anymore. It's heading in a very different direciton than I am. I'm not going to spend my whole life fighting to make this country what I can get elsewhere, right now. I'm not sure I have the cash to move but I'm definitely considering it down the road.

    I'm just sick of sitting by watching freedoms being taken away from people. How can sit in protests work when the actual democratic process of voting doesn't even work anymore in America? They're going to listen to some people at a sit in when they tried to cheat to stop their votes from being counted? I don't get it.

    "Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere"

    by Morbo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:39:57 PM PDT

    •  aoeu (3.50 / 2)

      Where do you think you can go that is out of the reach of America?  They have nukes.

      turtles consider
      every single vote deeply
      yet always vote dem

      by TealVeal on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:42:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hendrick Hertzberg (4.00 / 2)

      said when Canada recognized same sex marriage that it made him "proud to be a North American"

      Maybe we need a North American flag that we can put in the back of our pickups.

    •  You summed it up for me beautifully (none / 1)

      This beautiful country and it's grand potential has, finally, been stolen. It's a theft that's been in the works for a long time.

      It's said that the President represents the character of the country. So, this President? A liar. A drunk. A bully. A warmonger. A homophobe. Just to name a few. That is not the character of the country that I want to say is my country. It isn't. And it never will be.

      I really believed that common sense would prevail. But, of course, it didn't. I'm 52, and I'm finally tired of believing that Americans will ever fucking wake up. I no longer believe they will, and this election has finally knocked the fight out of me. I won't be leaving right away, at least until my son finishes high school (2 years). But I damn sure am going to start the wheels in motion.

      These assholes want fascism? Welcome to it.
      This is one very patriotic American who has had enough.

      Hostage smiles on presidents, freedom scribbled in the subway. It's like night and day. - Joni Mitchell

      by jazzlover on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:15:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Word. (none / 0)

    You nailed it.

    The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views.

    by DFWDem on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:40:07 PM PDT

  •  One caveat... (4.00 / 3)

    While I plan to stay and make a fuss... I will do all I can help my draft age son get out if it comes to another draft.

    There is a difference in the level of 'risk' between me and him...

  •  Nice diary (none / 0)

    for related comment see a diary I did from a while back, if interested. Thanks.

    The Moving Question

    (Scroll down to find it)

  •  From Andy Stern, SEIU: Lick 'em tomorrow. (4.00 / 3)

    Lick 'Em Tomorrow

    I just saw the report that John Kerry has conceded.

    I am incredibly disappointed.

    I hate losing, and at SEIU we are not accustomed to not winnng.

    I think we all feel incredible frustration today, and we need to stop and reflect on how we can elect candidates at a Federal level who reflect members' issues and interests.

    At the same time I have never been prouder of SEIU and our members.

    We took SEIU to a new level of activity, and prominence, and birthed a new and what will become a permanent part of our political efforts - The Heroes.

    We understood that neither SEIU nor unions could win on their own, and we helped birth ACT, America Votes, and participated in major voter registration efforts.

    We built new relationships in communities, and new allies throughout the country. We won the presidential contest in 10 of the 14 states we worked in.

    We continue to be able to win elections at a state and local level:

    In Georgia, we worked to help John Barrow (D) defeat an incumbent Congressman, Max Burns (R).
    In New Hampshire, we defeated an incumbent Republican Governor and elected John Lynch as the new Governor.
    In Iowa, we tied the state senate chamber.
    In Oregon, we won control of the state senate; we picked up seats in the state house and defeated the ballot measure that would have dismantled workers' compensation.
    In Nevada and Florida, we won minimum wage initiatives.
    In Colorado, we won control of both the state senate and the state house, elected a democratic US Senator, Ken Salazar, and elected his brother, John Salazar, to an open congressional seat, in the Third Congressional District.
    In Pennsylvania, we helped re-elect US Senator Arlen Specter and won the State Treasurer (Bob Casey) and State Auditor (Jack Wagner) races.
    In Minnesota, we elected an SEIU member, Patti Fritz (Local 113), to the state legislature, defeating a 10-year incumbent by less than 300 votes.
    In Washington state, the Governor's race is so close that there will be an automatic recount, but the campaign is confident they will win once all the votes are counted.
    There's more, this is just what we know for now...

    We are able to mobilize large numbers of members, leaders, and staff, far greater than almost any other organization.

    We have great resources: our phone banks, independent expenditures, Americans for Health Care, and the best members in the world.

    Clearly, it is way too early to draw conclusions about what is next. And reflections and sharp analysis are needed.

    But we do know some things:

    We reaffirmed that our members are the heart, soul, inspiration and core of our political program forever, and our Heroes program will become a permanent new dimension.

    We continue to show that when we focus on state and local races we can win or are very competitive.

    We cannot win on our own, and need permanent allies, permanent organizations, and permanent relationships in our communities.

    Too many politicians at the federal level have no economic message that appeals to workers. We need concrete plans not platitudes.

    Workers need their own independent voices, and need the strength and the unity to change their lives. Unions are that vehicle. We need to gain new strength for workers by growing union organizations.
    Our future is not a matter of chance, but a matter of choice.

    Let me end with this thought.

    During the Civil War when the Union forces were having difficult times, General Sherman was talking with General Grant.

    Sherman said, "Well, Grant, we've had the Devil's own day, haven't we?"

    "Yes," said Grant, and took a puff on his cigar which lit up his face in the darkness, "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

    Posted by Andy Stern at 01:18 PM EST

    •  unionize wal-mart (none / 1)

      Glad you posted this. Someone earlier said kill Walmart and shop at Target or Costco. This was my reply.

      ----
      They're all the same. It's not about boycotting one huge corporation over another.

      It's about unionizing all wage-slaves.

      I picked Wal-Mart, because it's a huge target that has an image problem (you've probably heard their ads on NPR). And the fact that they are so miserly with health care will resonate with americans.

      Look, David Broder wrote an article about a month ago about what was the biggest change in American politics since he's covered it (since the middle 60s). He said the decline of organized labor, hands-down. Back in the 70s when big labor still had power, politicians (even repubs) listened to organized labor and they pushed for progressive policies because they had power.

      When de-industrialization hit, and companies started manufactoring crap in other countries, labor took a dive and so did the democrats.

      Well now it's time to ramp up the labor movement again. You can't outsource a sales associate or a janitor to China, unless you decide to locate the store in China, so these shitty jobs are here to stay. So by organizing these people we can make these jobs not so shitty, and we will re-create a huge new block of blue-collar progressive stalwarts.

      Unionize Wal-Mart.

      •  But it is about boycott... (none / 0)

        Costco is unionized and offers healthcare, I do believe.  Therefore, the original argument remains valid... shop at Costco, boycott Walmart and Sam's Club.  A public boycott is a tool for pushing unionization.
      •  Trouble is (none / 0)

        ...there are 'right to work' states. I'm in Texas. It's a 'right to work' state.

        All the unions are national unions (CWA, airline pilots, etc.) and all the locals are pretty much meaningless gestures, with membership only to get the national benefits offered.

    •  SEIU is a great union but (none / 0)

      I wouldn't be bragging about helping re-elect Arlen Specter.

      Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

      by willyr on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:29:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gee, Andy (none / 0)

      What changed your mind?

      Andrew Stern, head of the 1.6-million-member Service Employees International Union (SEIU), commented Monday that both organized labor and the Democratic Party might be better off if John Kerry were to lose the election.

      Stern told the Washington Post that both the labor movement and the Democrats are "in deep crisis," that the party lacks new ideas, and that a Kerry victory might stifle union and Democratic Party reform. He said Kerry's election could hamper the "evolution" of the discussion within the party of such reform.


      (Yeah, yeah, he took it back, when he figured out it was going to come back and bite him. Ooops.)
  •  RED STATE TAKEOVER. (none / 0)

    We should simply figure out a way to create a colony of liberalism inside the midwest or south. Pick a state, flood in from hopeless red state areas, and make a granite hard colony that regularly delivers a blue colour..
  •  Licking our wounds! (none / 0)

    Our comments of moving elsewhere are just a form of licking our wounds.  Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

    We DO need to find candidates that can articulate "our moral values" to where they resonate with at least a majority of the voters.

    Kill your TV, especially the FOX, ABC and CNN channels.

    by ajleiker on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:41:11 PM PDT

  •  PS: Post a tip jar so we can mojo you? (none / 0)

  •  I was contemplating canada too... (none / 0)

    I live in Seattle, Vancouver is an easy hop.

    I've had some time to recover from the initial shock, and now all that is on my mind is fraud, fraud, and more fraud.

    I'm not going anywhere.

    "Rise... and Shine" - Tom Petty, Wake up Time

    by MW on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:41:35 PM PDT

  •  An Idea (4.00 / 6)

    First thing, we need to change election day.  Let's make it the first Sunday in November.  And the polls will close at noon.    
  •  Had a hair appointment, too yesterday (none / 0)

    The scalp and neck massage did wonders for my post-election funk.

    I've considered leaving the country, too.  My husband has dual citizenship with Ireland.  

    But after thinking about that yesterday, I decided this:

    Fuck them!  I was born here!  This is my country, too!!

    We're still going to get our ducks in a row so that we can leave if our lives depend on it - if the Constitutional Restoration Act is passed (we're Buddhists), or liberals start disappearing.

    But not one second before.

    "Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis." -- John Nichols

    by Kascade Kat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:43:16 PM PDT

  •  nice post DHinMI (none / 1)

    You left one thing out. How's the hair look?

    ~ have a powerful day ~

    by moeman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:43:20 PM PDT

  •  It's just venting. (none / 0)

    There was a story about Canadian Immigration officials early in the day yesterday issuing a warning that American Democrats would have to face the same immigration policies that other immigrants to Canada do.

    Then these officials took a look at their website traffic. There was basically no increase in traffic investigating immigration from the US to Canada. It's not a real concern.

    Democrats seriously leaving is not a real concern. I get angry and yell "I'm moving to B.C., dammit!" occasionally. It's never something I'm seriously considering. It's just venting. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

    ...and get rid of these gawd damn voting machines. Blackboxvoting.org

    by nyetsoup4you on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:43:46 PM PDT

    •  Moving to Canada (none / 0)

      It takes a while for applications for permanent residence to be processed. We won't be able to tell for some months whether the number of Americans immigrating to Canada has changed.

      There is an article in today's Globe and Mail on this topic--"Disaffected Americans look north to 'better government'"--that combines some anecdotes about individuals who are applying, and some stats.

      The article concludes: "Maria Iadinardi, spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, said it is too soon to say whether there has been a spike in the number of Americans being granted permanent residency, noting the number has fluctuated in recent years from a low of 4,437 in 1998 to a high of 5,604 in 2001. So far this year, 5,353 Americans have become permanent residents."

    •  gays moving (none / 1)

      They could've moved to Canada a year ago and come back this year to a Kerry presidency.  Instead they chose to have a gay marriage festival in the USA so that maybe we could have some married gay for the upcoming apocalypse.  

      I don't think the Midwest could possibly care that much about getting hit by terrorists.  They brought out the vote against the gay activism.

    •  New article (none / 0)

      That was true a few days ago, but it's changed.  Check here: http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=1b022644-e8f8-44c9-8cae-c90678858708

      We're flocking to the Canada Immigration website, it seems (and with good reason).

      •  Maybe everyone was just hung over next day (none / 0)

        I know I was. Second Presidential election in a row. Started drinking heavily 4 years ago when Florida go pulled out of the Gore clumn, and started drinking heavily this time when it became obvious the call on Pennsylvania had been held up by the networks, and suddenly return trends were nowhere close to exit polling.

        ...and get rid of these gawd damn voting machines. Blackboxvoting.org

        by nyetsoup4you on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 10:37:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Take Action, NOW. (none / 0)

    Please recommend this Diary:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/15246/5202

    Please join in asking Markos to take the Lead.

    We need to act, now.

  •  So is this Blog going to lead the fight? (4.00 / 2)

    Why isn't it an easy matter for us to raise money and man power -- to impound machines in Ohio until we can test their programming, to run the analysis in Florida that was started so ably by one of our posters?  Why can't this blog take the lead in speaking the truth?  That this is a Fraud on a scale unknown in the history of democracy in the world.

    How does this effort get organized here?  now?  Today?  Shall we take pledges?  Shall we raise $100 thousand in the next 4 hours?  What does it take?

    •  I've the following Diary... (none / 0)

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/15246/5202
      since it has made the 'recommeded list' as one way to attempt to get folk focused, as you are.

      We need Markos to create a center, main page post, and call the progressives to focus, create a donor mechanism, etc.

      Thank you!!

    •  Take The Lead? (none / 1)

      Didn't do much for Michael Moore. You go for it with my best wishes. I can't take any more of this. We've met the #3 qualifier of Fascism:

      3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
      The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

      I don't know about you, but I learned from Nazi Germany.

  •  Don't forget to send the President a gift. (none / 1)

    Thought I had a great idea, but found it has already been done:

    http://www.bloggerheads.com/pretzels.asp

    •  It may be in the link... (none / 0)

      but a boingboing blogger sent shrub a bag of pretzels!

      Change is inevitable - Growth is optional

      by oregongal on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 12:48:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just placed my order for pretzels for Bushie (none / 1)

      Come on everyone and join in the fun.....

      You know, if you get one person, just one person to send Bushie a bag of pretzels, they make think the person is sick and ignore him. And if two people, two people do it, they may think they are both faggots and ignore them too. And if three peple do it, three, can you imagine, three people sending Bushie a bag of pretzels. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day sending Bushie a bag of pretzels. And friends they may think it is a movement.

      And that's what it is, the send Bushie a congratulatory bag of pretzels movement. And all you got to do to join is send Bushie a bag of pretzels.

      Fondest respect and apology to Arlo Guthrie!

      "My answer is: Bring 'em on. We got the force necessary to deal with the security situation." - George W. Bush, July 2, 2003

      by Eggman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:10:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Teeth bared, ready to fight. (none / 1)

    When I wake up in the morning, I'm depressed.  I've been getting up several hours earlier than usual because I wake up to add a blanket, and I get depressed and can't go back to sleep.

    When I'm awake, I'm so optimistic and cheerful that I honestly worry it may be a sign of some kind of mental illness.  I've been running around giving pep talks to everyone I know - to people I didn't think cared all that much, even.

    I'm trying to keep track of the fronts I see for us to open up or take some ground on in this war; maybe I'll turn that into my first-ever diary, but what's clear to me is that there are so many things we can do, so many ways we can gain ground so that not only will a Democrat win the presidency in 2008, they will do it on our terms, not by running to a center that shifts ever-rightward.

    And I'm hoping, praying, for the added benefit of watching Bush be impeached by the Democrat-controlled Congress we elect in 2006.  Watching him try to institute a draft and have his ass handed to him.  I said to a friend this morning that I know in my heart he will face judgment sometime, from someone.  My only hope is that I get to watch.

  •  RED STATE TAKEOVER (none / 1)

    The fact is that we are being colonized by strategic megachurch evangelism. We have to make a nation (by controlling an extra stae) in which it is safe to a liberal.  The Mormons did it in Utah.  Plato tried to do it. So should we.

    It isn't time to shift to Canada it is time to take over Montana, Idaho and North Dakota.

    by McAdder on