Daily Kos

Debate open thread

by kos

Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:27:36 AM PDT

I'll be on the road for the next few hours. So here's a debate thread for your chatting pleasure.
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Permalink | 318 comments

  •  Thinking about not watching (none / 0)

    won't change a thing for me, and I don't need the anxiety.

    Thoughts?

    The right is killing America

    by grushka on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:26:34 AM PDT

    •  i'm going to watch (none / 0)

      and maybe even make some popcorn... i get the feeling bush id going to get ripped to shreds, and i want to see it live.

      Where would we be right now without the internet?

      by johnny71 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:31:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope Bush is eviscerated (4.00 / 22)

        I hope even the Fox News pundits will be forced to admit that Bush looked a bit shaky. But the bar is so low for Bush and so high for Kerry that it would take an undeniable gaffe to cause that.

        Here is my proposal of what Kerry should say in his closing remarks:

        Mr. Bush, when you were a cheerleader at Yale, I was signing up for Navy duty in Vietnam.

        When you failed to report for your last two years of Guard service, I was protesting a war that needlessly killed fifty thousand in our generation.

        When you were running one failed oil company after another, I was prosecuting criminals and exposing arms deals with Iran.

        When you were buying a baseball team, I was going after terrorist financiers.

        When you relied on Afghan troops to catch Bin Laden, I told you to send American troops.

        When you were making excuses about Iraq, I was proposing solutions.

        And when you're back in Crawford, Mr. Bush, I'm going to be winning this war on terror for the American people.  Because only one of us on this stage has the guts, the wisdom, and the experience to do it.

        Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

        by existenz on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:00:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If I were Kerry . . . (4.00 / 3)

          The "if I were Kerry" type posts are fun. I've done quite a few myself. But you know what I'd really be doing if I were in Kerry's position right now? Puking. Begging Michael Whouley to get me out of it. Faking an injury. Weeping with nerves. Shaking so bad I couldn't get food or water to my lips. Which wouldn't matter what with the puking and all.

          Seriously, I can't imagine the tension right now. Sometimes we forget that these guys are just human. If John Kerry can string a full sentence together within the first 5 minutes and look remotely confident doing it, he's got my admiration right there.

          disclaimer: I'm John Kerry's Internet Director

          by BriVT on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:24:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know what you mean (none / 1)

            I'm jittery as hell and I'm not even the one who's gonna be debating tonight. But you know what? Kerry is a pro at these clutch situations. He's been standing up in front of people and speaking his mind since his days in college. He goes in front of 30,000 people crowds all the time. I think he'll handle this better than any of us.

            I hope he comes prepared, but not over-prepared. He should speak from the gut, deliver some straight talk, and call out Bush when he sees an opportunity. Don't worry about focus groups or spinmeisters or any of that crap. Just tell it like it is and how he sees it. Don't be a total attack dog like Dole was in his debates versus Clinton, but don't be a pacifist like Gore was in his second debate with Bush.

            The only scripted parts should be the opening and closing statements. I think Kerry will do great, but this is just one debate and he has two more as well. I'm not expecting Bush to get destroyed, but I do hope he gets flustered.

            Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

            by existenz on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:40:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I feel (none / 0)

              this way watching sports.  I'm watching the Rose Bowl and some 19-year old comes on the field with 3 seconds left and a 40-yard field goal to kick.  And I would die.  But he kicks it.  Or doesn't.  Either way, he doesn't just lie there in a puddle like I would.  I think if you're really prepared and you're a pro you just do it.  But thank god it's not me.

              by David in NY on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:15:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Practice makes a big difference (none / 0)

              Ever done any public speaking? I have.

              The first time, you're jittery as hell. By the third time, you're the most comfortable and relaxed person in the room. It's fun.

              And Kerry is a heck of a lot more professional and practiced and gutsy than I ever was.

              by Smallbottle on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:32:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah (none / 0)

                Done quite a bit. Been on live TV, too. And the radio. Do fine to really good usually (though I've done less well a couple of times).

                But something like tonight would just freak me the fuck out. It's not the cameras, the lights, the audience, or the questions. It's the fact that I would KNOW that millions, no, billions of people around the world were counting on me to make a difference. All the hopes and fears of so many people, all the LIVES riding on my own shoulders. Jesus.

                I think that's why successful politicians are always super competitive. At times like this they can boil it down to "me against my opponent." Just a one-on-one battle, see who blinks first. They think, "I can beat this guy!" That I can imagine. Boiling it down to that, then you can succeed.

                disclaimer: I'm John Kerry's Internet Director

                by BriVT on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:09:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Kerry Is Strong (none / 0)

            Senator Kerry is not some wuss in short pants.  He will not be puking any time soon (unless he eats some bad stone crabs down in Miami).  

            And my comment below was to Existenz' post--not yours.

            by eafredel on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:41:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah (none / 0)

              I know all that. See, that's why Kerry is where he is. And I am not. That's also why I've been confident about Kerry all along. He's tough. Real tough. Not a phony.

              I'm confident in him. I just think it's amazing that he can do it.

              disclaimer: I'm John Kerry's Internet Director

              by BriVT on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:03:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Kerry (4.00 / 4)

            is actually tougher, and smarter, and readier for duty than you or I will ever be, which is fantastic.  We want the best of the best, and those kind of people won't be puking with nerves today.

            Bush, however, is probably on all kinds of meds...

            John Kerry has been working his entire life, preparing for this moment.  He has taken on tougher opponents and he knows this particular crowd very well.

            I am looking forward to it with great anticipation!

            by kate mckinnon on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:44:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Tougher opponents (none / 1)

              who were shooting at him.  I've never seen combat, but I have to assume that there's something about being in a life-threatening situation non-stop for months on end that helps you keep things like presidential debates in perspective.  

              -6.38/-6.26 Bush is studiously anti-science, a man of applied ignorance who has undernourished his mind with the empty calories of comfy dogma. - Richard Cohen

              by mofus on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:32:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Indeed (none / 0)

              Remember the DNC speech?  There was so much anticipation of that moment.  Lots of people around here were kind of fretting that it wouldn't go well & I admit I was nervous myself and almost didn't watch, but by the end it seemed to be a home run.  

              on strike.

              by daria g on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:36:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  yep... (none / 0)

              I was just thinking that..poor old Kurt Cobain could only dream of getting hold of whatever's most likely coursing through Bush's veins right now.
               

              "Calmer than you are Dude....calmer than you"

              by sula on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 04:36:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Wow! (none / 0)

          I love this.

          by eafredel on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:37:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Kos Channels Kerry, Or Vice Versa (none / 0)

          I have loved reading everyone's suggestions of what Kerry should say. Many of them are brilliant.  I just hope his people are taking notes.


          - Arthur
          shrednow: worldwide freestyle community

          by arthur on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:34:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It would be nice but... (none / 0)

            ...I bet the Kerry team is coming up with their own lines. Kossacks had all kinds of advice for Kerry's acceptace speech at the DNC, and he blew us all away with some awesome lines.  I hope Joe Lockhart and Mike McCurry will impress us tonight with some great zingers.

            As long as Kerry is clear, confident, and on-message I'll be happy. He doesn't have to get fancy (although it would be cool if he can pull it off). But it seems like Kerry has pulled through in each situation where we start getting jitters (VP pick, DNC speech, last week's Iraq speech). So if he is true to form he will impress us tonight.

            We'll see. I'm gonna be nervous all day long.

            Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

            by existenz on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:26:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I believe the format (none / 0)

          does not allow closing remarks

          by seanflynn on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:56:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It is historic (none / 1)

      ...you should watch.  And you should be prepared for a knife fight of a debate.  

      We need as many folks as possible not only watching the debate, but writing letters, calling in, and launching pro-Kerry propaganda as much as possible for the post debate spin off.

      I think Kerry will do us proud.  Now, individually, we're not likely to make much of a difference.  But the Bush campaign is planning on a massive, coordinated, rapid response in real time... disseminating their vile spin.  We need to -- at the very least -- watch the debate and be ready to talk about it with our friends, family and general acquaintances.

      Spin for Kerry!

      by manyoso on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:35:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Be prepared for some presidential spitballs! (none / 0)

        Be prepared for some presidential spitballs. The editor of Alantic Monthly reported ast night on Charlie Rose's show that Bush "will be standing on a pitcher's mound so he will not appear 5" shorter than John Kerry". Seems Bush always needs special treatment, especailly when it comes to raising his stature.  

        by Newsmuse on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:02:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  IMPORTANT THAT WE FIGHT BACK! (none / 0)

        Here's what Josh Marshall linked to:

        WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- The Bush campaign has set up a network of Web sites to carry instant analysis of tonight's debate.

        The "Debate Feed" will provide the GOP spin in real time to as many as 5,000 conservative Web outlets, according to Wired News. "Our rapid response effort is based on the premise that no attack or no misstatement will go unchallenged," Michael Turk, director of the Internet campaign, told the Web site. A "war room" is outfitted with 15 computers and two TVs, monitored by two dozen staffers, ready to send out a Republican response or comment, Wired added.

        The Kerry campaign is not so well organized. It has e-mailed supporters who work with local newspapers and media, telling them the Kerry campaign will provide a response after the debate, Wired reported.

        by Brian CB on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:13:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Will Kos serve as Kerry's war room? (none / 0)

          I think the idea of a debunk-thread is critical.

          Plus, does anybody have that page linking to media outlets?

          by Smallbottle on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:35:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's not True (none / 0)

          Go to www.democrats.org and go to the rapid response link and sign up.  They'll send you an email with pertanent information to contact news organizations right after the debate.  I'm posting some of the message I recieved after signing up here.

          Write
          Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Kerry commanded the debate and had a clear plan for fixing the mess in Iraq, put it in your letter. If you feel George Bush dodged tough questions on Iraq and didn't level with voters, put it in your letter.

          With just a few clicks, you can write your letter at our online media center:

          http://www.democrats.org/media/

          Call
          Do you listen to national or local call-in shows on the radio? How about on TV? Call them and let them know what you thought of John Kerry's plan to keep America secure and George Bush's continuing refusal to admit the truth about his record.

          Here are some national shows to get you started. (All times are Eastern.)

          Air America (all day): 646-274-2346
          Alan Colmes (10 a.m. to 1 p.m.): 212-301-5900
          Ed Shultz (3 p.m. to 6 p.m.): 701-232-1525
          Bev Smith (7 p.m. to 10 p.m.): 412-325-4197
          Doug Stephen (5 a.m. 10 a.m.): 1-800-510-8255
          Find shows in your area on our media website:

          http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

          Your actions immediately after the debate tonight can help John Kerry win on November 2. Make your voice heard!

          Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information, including questions Bush must answer, a Bush/Kerry contrast on keeping America safe, and Bush Debate Bingo, a game you can play with friends during the debate.

          http://www.democrats.org/debates/

          by LisaDawn82 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:10:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  This list may duplicate others posted here but (none / 0)

          who has the time to check?  Apologies if you've already got all this.

          National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

           * ABC News:   http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001D
           * CBS News:   http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001E
           * CNN:   http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001F
           * Fox News:  http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001G
           * MSNBC:   http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001H
           * USA Today:   http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001I

          And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

          * WRITE *

          Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Kerry commanded the debate and had a clear plan for fixing the mess in Iraq, put it in your letter.

          If you feel George Bush dodged tough questions on Iraq and didn't level with voters, put it in your letter.

          With just a few clicks, you can write your letter at our online media
          center:

           http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001J

          * CALL *

          Do you listen to national or local call-in shows on the radio? How about on TV? Call them and let them know what you thought of John Kerry's plan to keep America secure and George Bush's continuing refusal to admit the truth about his record.

          Here are some national shows to get you started. (All times are
          Eastern.)

           * Air America (all day): 646-274-2346
           * Alan Colmes (10 a.m. to 1 p.m.): 212-301-5900
           * Ed Shultz (3 p.m. to 6 p.m.): 701-232-1525
           * Bev Smith (7 p.m. to 10 p.m.): 412-325-4197
           * Doug Stephen (5 a.m. 10 a.m.): 1-800-510-8255

          Find shows in your area on our media website:

            http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001K

          Your actions immediately after the debate tonight can help John Kerry win on November 2. Make your voice heard!

          Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information, including questions Bush must answer, a Bush/Kerry contrast on keeping America safe, and Bush Debate Bingo, a game you can play with friends during the debate.

          http://redir.democrats.org/rdr/002UK008CQ0001L

          And after the debate, check your email.

          Thank you,

          PS: Make sure to forward this email to at least 10 other people who will be watching the debate. Also, give printed out copies to your friends, family members, coworkers and neighbors and get them involved.

          Kaja Snell
          Senior Outreach

          PHN: 202-589-3934
          FAX: 202-712-3004

          ALSO

          Air America can now be heard on 960 AM, although its formal launch is Friday with a live show by Al Franken from the San Francisco comedy club, The Punch Line at 444 Battery Street from 9 a.m. to noon. Admission is free and doors open at 8:30 a.m.    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/9793282.htm

          And another thing.  Friend Shari Steiner recommends sending this John Eisenhower letter to all your friends in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado,  heck just about any teetering Repub you know!   http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004U.shtml

          by fyreflye on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 04:43:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This was on the recommended list, but its down now (4.00 / 3)

        I sent this list to my friends and asked them to write an email or 80 to some of the following...

        2020@abc.com, thisweek@abc.com, nightline@abcnews.com,
        factorcorrections@airamericaradio.com, mike@mikemalloy.com,
        rrhodes@airamericaradio.com, alan@alan.com, info@alternativeradio.org,
        info@alternet.org, talk2us@americasblackforum.com, jmccoy@atpco.com,
        tnaegele@atpco.com, feedback@ap.org, jloven@ap.org, kcarroll@ap.org,
        lmargasak@ap.org, msilverman@ap.org, opinion@thewire.ap.org,
        npickler@ap.org, rfournier@ap.org, sjohnson@ap.org, pr@ap.org,
        thunt@ap.org, traum@ap.org, bsenftleber@ajc.com, bsteiden@ajc.com,
        cwarmbold@ajc.com, cynthia@ajc.com, gmathis@ajc.com,
        hklibanoff@ajc.com, hpost@ajc.com, jmallory@ajc.com, jbookman@ajc.com,
        jdwallace@ajc.com, letters@ajc.com, insideajc@ajc.com, pgast@ajc.com,
        rnarayanan@ajc.com, rhenry@ajc.com, atrios@comcast.net,
        newsonline@bbc.co.uk, btbtalk@aol.com, news@bet.com,
        anita@mindgallery.com, jfetzer@d.umn.edu, osanic@prouty.org,
        hprzybyla@bloomberg.net, hrosenkrantz@bloomberg.net,
        dkeil@bloomberg.net, ombud@globe.com, goodman@globe.com,
        kcooper@globe.com, johnson@globe.com, letter@globe.com,
        brelis@globe.com, oliphant@globe.com, lettersbwol@businessweek.com,
        richard_dunham@businessweek.com, buzzflash@buzzflash.com,
        query@cambridgeforum.org, 48hours@cbsnews.com, 60II@cbsnews.com,
        60m@cbsnews.com, bpc@cbsnews.com, evening@cbsnews.com,
        earlyshow@cbs.com, efm@cbsnews.com, ftn@cbsnews.com, mkx@cbsnews.com,
        pma@cbsnews.com, rbc@cbsnews.com, sundays@cbsnews.com,
        grain@cbsnews.com, mail@chicagoreader.com, aweathersbee@suntimes.com,
        zwecker@suntimes.com, stbusiness@suntimes.com,
        cledbetter@suntimes.com, metro@suntimes.com, dmiller@suntimes.com,
        ddouglas@suntimes.com, metro@suntimes.com, showcase@suntimes.com,
        jbarry@suntimes.com, jwisser@suntimes.com, jbarron@suntimes.com,
        jcruickshank@suntimes.com, jwcary@suntimes.com, letters@suntimes.com,
        marym@suntimes.com, mcooke@suntimes.com, sneed@suntimes.com,
        prosen@suntimes.com, stphoto@suntimes.com, rroeper@suntimes.com,
        feder@suntimes.com, answerman@suntimes.com, rjr@suntimes.com,
        shuntley@suntimes.com, savage@suntimes.com, zays@suntimes.com,
        aobejas@tribune.com, ctc-editor@tribune.com, rkemper@tribune.com,
        bjapsen@tribune.com, csimpson@tribune.com, cgarrett@tribune.com,
        fjames@tribune.com, GWashburn@tribune.com, gdelama@tribune.com,
        joshea@tribune.com, jgreenburg@tribune.com, jzeleny@tribune.com,
        jzuckman@tribune.com, jcrewdson@tribune.com, JPeres@tribune.com,
        mdorning@tribune.com¸ MPossley@tribune.com, cptkilian@aol.com,
        mtackett@tribune.com, nbendavid@tribune.com, psinger2@tribune.com,
        bdold@tribune.com, rranderson@tribune.com, RAP30@aol.com,
        shedges@tribune.com, schapman@tribune.com, vwalton@tribune.com,
        wneikirk@tribune.com, bmccauley@enquirer.com, cweiser@gns.gannett.com,
        dhorn@enquirer.com, dwells@enquirer.com, jborgman@enquirer.com,
        rcooklis@enquirer.com, tlang@enquirer.com, aaron.brown@turner.com,
        am@cnn.com, 360@cnn.com, andrea.koppel@turner.com,
        bill.schneider@turner.com, bruce.morton@turner.com,
        candy.crowley@turner.com, carol.lin@turner.com, crossfire@cnn.com,
        daryn.kagan@turner.com, david.ensor@turner.com, daybreak@cnn.com,
        kurtzh@washpost.com, inthemoney@cnn.com, insidepoliticts@cnn.com,
        crossfire@cnn.com, jeanne.meserve@turner.com, jeff.greenfield@cnn.com,
        jim.walton@turner.com, deirdre.walsh@turner.com,
        kelly.wallace@turner.com, kyra.phillips@turner.com, live@cnn.com,
        livefrom@cnn.com, livetoday@cnn.com, lou.dobbs@turner.com,
        loudobbs@cnn.com, miles.obrien@turner.com, moneyline@cnn.com,
        newsnight@cnn.com, paulazahnnow@cnn.com, paula.zahn@turner.com,
        rick.davis@turner.com, robert.novak@turner.com, tom.hannon@cnn.com,
        wam@cnn.com, wolf@cnn.com, george@coasttocoastam.com,
        info@commongroundradio.org, finlay.lewis@copleydc.com,
        george.condon@copleydc.com, bobdeans@coxnews.com,
        clindell@coxnews.com, gedmonson@coxnews.com, llipman@coxnews.com,
        mhopgood@coxnews.com, meversley@coxnews.com, mail@democracynow.org,
        imusshow@yahoo.com, bashamradio@yahoo.com, letters@economist.com,
        ed@kfgo.com, wendy@edschultzshow.com, james@edschultzshow.com,
        dthomas@fair.org, fair@fair.org, jjackson@fair.org,
        jnaureckas@fair.org, jhollar@fair.org, phart@fair.org,
        shohauser@fair.org, srendall@fair.org, amity.shlaes@ft.com,
        letters.editor@ft.com, martin.wolf@ft.com, philip.stephens@ft.com,
        quentin.peel@ft.com, gpalmer@news-press.com, afterhours@foxnews.com,
        atlarge@foxnews.com, brian.wilson@foxnews.com, brit.hume@foxnews.com,
        bullsandbears@foxnews.com, cash@foxnews.com, cavuto@foxnews.com,
        collins.spencer@foxnews.com, comments@foxnews.com,
        dayside@foxnews.com, forbes@foxnews.com, friends@foxnews.com,
        foxmagazine@foxnews.com, feedback@foxnews.com, fns@foxnews.com,
        newswatch@foxnews.com, foxreport@foxnews.com, Colmes@foxnews.com,
        Hannity@foxnews.com, heartland@foxnews.com, james.rosen@foxnews.com,
        jim.angle@foxnews.com, major.garrett@foxnews.com,
        molly.henneberg@foxnews.com, ontherecord@foxnews.com,
        special@foxnews.com, studiob@foxnews.com, beltway@foxnews.com,
        myword@foxnews.com, oreilly@foxnews.com, viewerservices@foxnews.com,
        warstories@foxnews.com, wendell.goler@foxnews.com, cavuto@foxnews.com,
        letters@star-telegram.com, aradelat@gns.gannett.com,
        billy.house@arizonarepublic.com, cweiser@gns.gannett.com,
        ddepledge@gns.gannett.com, dabrahms@gns.gannett.com,
        ekelly@gns.gannett.com, fbremner@gns.gannett.com,
        jcarroll@gns.gannett.com, jnorman@dmreg.com, jhanchet@gns.gannett.com,
        jfrandsen@gns.gannett.com, kscott@gns.gannett.com,
        lbivins@gns.gannett.com, mgroppe@gns.gannett.com,
        mmadden@gns.gannett.com, pbrogan@gns.gannett.com,
        rchebium@gns.gannett.com, sroth@gns.gannett.com,
        cmulholland@greenwave.com, clyde@clydelewis.com,
        guyjames@theguyjamesshow.com, charliepope@seattlepi.com,
        helent@hearstdc.com, stewart@hearstdc.com, viewpoints@chron.com,
        citydesk@chron.com, sternshow@howardstern.com, letters@iht.com,
        ibdnews@investors.com, info@jimhightower.com, letters@kcstar.com,
        skraske@kcstar.com, sshirk@kcstar.com, sarah.spitz@kcrw.org,
        pintek@kdka.com, johnandken@johnandkenshow.com, bernieward2@yahoo.com,
        raytaliaferro2@yahoo.com, EmailRonn@aol.com,
        peterboyles@clearchannel.com, mike@mikewebb.org, jim@radiojim.com,
        cwbrennan@cbs.com, abjerga@krwashington.com,
        churt@charlotteobserver.com, dgoldstein@krwashington.com,
        fdavies@krwashington.com, jpuzzangherra@krwashington.com,
        lmarkoe@krwashington.com, mrecio@krwashington.com,
        mstearns@krwashington.com, pnicholas@phillynews.com,
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        Help a Blue Store!

        by ultrageek on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:41:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  kerry's better than you think... (none / 0)

        NPR just ran a clip of him debating Weld. It didn't even sound like the same guy. He was amazing. Sounded like the prosecutor on Law & Order. Picked up on everything, didn't miss a beat.

        Remember, he was a prosecutor. He knows how to think on his feet. He's good at it. He's NOT good at fluff interviews, or trying to do sound bites.

        I plan to have a bottle of wine available, and a couple of fluffy cat toys to throw at Bush. I just hope I don't get too mad and throw the fluffy cat instead of the toys.

        by mmacdDE on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:25:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Think of It (none / 0)

      as an opportunity to learn about the opponent, and about our candidate as well.  That we we can critique in a serious, thoughtful manner, not by just picking a micro moment to obsess over.

      I want to watch to see the John Kerry, Prosecutor, issue the big smackdown on George.

      As Ann Richards said about his daddy, "Poor George, he was born with a silver foot in his mouth"

      It all happens in the Heartland of Virginia

      by Dems2004 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:39:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Working (none / 0)

      I will be working, so I have an excuse, but I would not watch them either, primarily because of the anxiety.

      Plus the fact that I would cover the screen with spit every time I saw Bush's monkey mug.

      But here is the best way to prep for tonight - check out this "Prebuttal Debate Briefing" from the K-E blog - and get in a good hard laugh or a dozen.

      Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday.

      by Long Haul on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:50:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  AP Already Reported on Debate (none / 0)

      Since diaries are turned off, here's a link to one by Elizabeth D on Atrios on AP ALREADY REPORTING ON HOW THE DEBATE WENT.

      CORAL GABLES, Fla. Sept. 30, 2004 -- After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads, President Bush and challenger John Kerry got their chance to face each other directly Thursday night before an audience of tens of millions of voters in a high-stakes debate about terrorism, the Iraq war and the bloody aftermath.

      The 90-minute encounter was particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions...


      by PitterPatter on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:47:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  WTF? Is that a joke? (none / 0)

        What rabbit hole have we fallen into???? That article reads like it's completely serious! It is reporting on an event that hasn't occurred.

        Get me out of this country.

        Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

        by bumblebums on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:08:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Let the AP know how you feel. (none / 1)

        feedback@ap.org, jloven@ap.org, kcarroll@ap.org, lmargasak@ap.org, msilverman@ap.org, opinion@thewire.ap.org, npickler@ap.org, rfournier@ap.org, sjohnson@ap.org, pr@ap.org, thunt@ap.org, traum@ap.org,

        If you have got a boss, you need a union. Read www.purpleocean.org/blog/

        by BartBoris on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:31:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Easy, easy, easy... (none / 0)

        If that's all that's there, that doesn't say anything yet.

        I know news orgs write obits ahead of time and fill in the blanks... if someone chose to write the boilerplate intro ahead of time, setting the stage for the debate, it's no big deal.  As long as they don't go saying Kerry couldn't explain himself or some shit like that.

        "Efficiency is the steak. Renewables are the sizzle." --Carl Pope, Sierra Club

        by Red Herring on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 03:11:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not going to watch (none / 0)

      Not because I don't want to. Not because I don't think this is the second most important moment in the campaign.

      Because I have school.

      But you can count on me to start emailing and phoning as soon as I get to my computer.

      Finding God in a Dog

      by maxomai on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:54:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Me too (none / 0)

      I can't decide whether to watch or not.  My blood pressure may get too high, and I need some sleep.  A night of tossing and turning thinking about Bush is not a pleasant thought.  But I would also like to be able to respond to media outlets with my thoughts.  Guess I will wait until the last minute.

      Does this make me an undecided now?

      McCain

      by Tiparillo on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:02:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Important to watch (none / 0)

      I just got the following e-mail:

      Tonight, don't let George Bush's henchmen steal another victory. We need your online help immediately after the debate, so save this email, print it out, and have it ready with you as you watch the first Presidential debate tonight.

      We all know what happened in 2000. Al Gore won the first debate on the issues, but Republicans stole the post-debate spin. We are not going to let that happen again, and you will play a big role.

      Immediately after the debate, we need you to do three things: vote in online polls, write a letter to the editor, and call in to talk radio programs. Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference.

      Vote

      National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

      ·        ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/

      ·        CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/

      ·        CNN: http://www.cnn.com/

      ·        Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/

      ·        MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/

      ·        USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/

      And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

      Write

      Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Kerry commanded the debate and had a clear plan for fixing the mess in Iraq, put it in your letter. If you feel George Bush dodged tough questions on Iraq and didn't level with voters, put it in your letter.

      With just a few clicks, you can write your letter at our online media center:

      http://www.democrats.org/media/

      Call

      Do you listen to national or local call-in shows on the radio? How about on TV? Call them and let them know what you thought of John Kerry's plan to keep America secure and George Bush's continuing refusal to admit the truth about his record.

      Here are some national shows to get you started. (All times are Eastern.)

      ·        Air America (all day): 646-274-2346

      ·        Alan Colmes (10 a.m. to 1 p.m.): 212-301-5900

      ·        Ed Shultz (3 p.m. to 6 p.m.): 701-232-1525

      ·        Bev Smith (7 p.m. to 10 p.m.): 412-325-4197

      ·        Doug Stephen (5 a.m. 10 a.m.): 1-800-510-8255

      Find shows in your area on our media website:

      http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

      Your actions immediately after the debate tonight can help John Kerry win on November 2. Make your voice heard!

      Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information, including questions Bush must answer, a Bush/Kerry contrast on keeping America safe, and Bush Debate Bingo, a game you can play with friends during the debate.

      http://www.democrats.org/debates/

      And after the debate, check your email for a very special message.

      Thank you,

      Terry McAuliffe
      Chairman

      PS: Make sure to forward this email to at least 10 other people who will be watching the debate. Also, give printed out copies to your friends, family members, coworkers and neighbors and get them involved.

      Hype or Reality: the Senate records of Obama and Clinton

      by Grassroots Mom on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:40:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's like a car wreck... (none / 0)

      I know no good will come of it, but I still can't look away.

      Part of me is dreading this.  I don't know why; perhaps because we've been building it up too much.

      "We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty."

      by Dissento on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:03:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  scratch that (none / 1)

        I'm reading what I just post, and it sounds more negative than I feel.  **Sending good vibes**

        "We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty."

        by Dissento on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:15:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Faith, people.... and hope (none / 0)

          I've read up and down these comments and I read "I'll watch", or "I can't stand to watch"... this is like a train wreck... you HAVE to watch... better yet, it's like voting- YOU HAVE TO VOTE, so you HAVE to watch.  You've got to SEE how these two react to one another... like the post up this morning about body language and W's wink... you've got to see one or the other flinch to see where he's weak.  And you've got to watch on the off chance that Kerry actually get's Bush's goat.
          I'm like a rabid dog right now.  Just foaming at the mouth to see him stutter and fumble and say something totally Bushism and moronic.  PLEASE let Kerry shine tonight!

          "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

          by saint on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 03:14:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm wearing my Kerry button (none / 0)

    all day today. I'm pumped up for tonight almost as much as I was for game 7 Yanks/Sox last year.

    After Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

    by nevadadem on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:26:41 AM PDT

  •  It's go time (4.00 / 9)

    Let me say something about the debates -- and you may jump all over me -- but even back when I was a hard core Dean supporter, I still believed that Kerry would do better in the ring with Bush. He has that prosecutor demeanor, and he looks very, very presidential. He is fiercely competitive and he does not choke. This is my guy here. He's the one I want up there tonight, and we are going to take Bush to school.


    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." - Salvor Hardin

    by Zackpunk on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:30:07 AM PDT

    •  I hope to god you're right! (none / 0)

      by sharonmatt20194 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:38:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  who would jump on you (4.00 / 2)

      for that? i was overseas during the primaries, so i couldn't get on the dean train. i was out of touch with the zeitgeist. but looking back on old c-span dean speeches, i would have been a deaniac.
       but we chose wisely. i will repeat this again and again, like a rethug with a talking point: kerry is a physical, moral and intellectual warrior. maybe i have seen more old kerry footage than most others here. in debates and speeches, especially in the old weld debates, kerry had the eye of the tiger, he was unstoppable.
       and it's not mindless cheerleading. i believe it because i see it. have some faith, people.

      Any man can stand some adversity. If you really want to know a man's character, give him power. Abe Lincoln.

      by maskling11 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:46:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Me, too (4.00 / 3)

        I was a Dean supporter because I knew the guy as a very honest guy who only cared to do what was right. But, I knew Kerry a little, always respected him, then, after he won Iowa and NH, I looked back at the Weld race. Whew. Tough as nails, and mean as a snake. But in a good way. Weld himself calls Kerry "good tough."

        As opposed to Bush's all hat, no cattle approach to toughness . . .

        And, boy, he'll need it all tonight. Talk about high stakes!

        disclaimer: I'm John Kerry's Internet Director

        by BriVT on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:32:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mandelbaum! (4.00 / 2)

      Mandelbaum!

      by kate mckinnon on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:52:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Everyone should prep by reading this (none / 0)

      It's James Fallows' review of Bush and Kerry debating styles. In it he writes "Sitting through the videos of Kerry's old debates and interviews produced an effect I hadn't remotely anticipated: I was sorrty when they were finished, because it was such a treat to see this man perform."

      Go read, you'll feel better.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200407/fallows

      by cfr on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:27:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ability Yes, But Opportunity? (4.00 / 2)

      The debate is specifically structured so that there is no 'ring' for Kerry to operate in.

      That he is competitive and probably won't choke is great, that's certainly a comfort. But I don't see the arena offering any opportunity to exercise prosecutorial skill.

      And since the scores this round are judged on artistic merit rather than technical content, it's necessary both for Kerry to prove an unexpectedly strong entertainer, while Bush has to suffer visibly from stage fright. Even if he's a moron, as long as he's a comfortable moron his performance will be artistic.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:52:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We ARE going to win. (4.00 / 2)

      Tonight's debate will show why.

      "But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it."-Paul Krugman

      by theprogressivemiddle on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:00:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I voted for Edwards (none / 0)

      but Kerry's our man now.. I'm hoping for the best!

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:07:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If Kerry holds his own, he'll win. (none / 0)

      People are looking for an alternative.  He just has to look acceptable.  
      See http://www.americablog.blogspot.com

      by David in NY on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 03:01:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm going to watch (none / 0)

    for two reasons. 1) Bush, even though he will be programmed as much as possible by Rove, may still make some monumental gaffe that cannot be ignored by the media. 2) Kerry has the stones to go around the 32 pages of rules and nail Bush while making himself look like a strong leader.

    by pox vopuli on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:30:29 AM PDT

  •  Going To Watch (none / 0)

    and record for digital prosperity.....

    Worked half a day so I could get hyped this afternoon, more on that later....

    Mark

    It all happens in the Heartland of Virginia

    by Dems2004 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:34:16 AM PDT

  •  To Watch or Not to Watch (none / 0)

    I haven't decided yet.  I remember the debates between Gore and Bush as being painful.  I really didn't think Gore did well. On the other hand if this is the moment when Bush finally cracks, I don't want to miss it.  I am torn.  The past few weeks have been really hard on me.  I can no longer watch any news shows or even the morning shows.  I can't bear to see anyone take Bush seriously.  I can't believe it is the end of September and Bush still has a chance to win the election.  

    by sharonmatt20194 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:36:25 AM PDT

  •  Kerry vs. Weld (none / 1)

    I don't think I can watch it...  maybe I'll listen on the radio.

    I saw something last night that made me feel good, though.  It was a clip of Kerry debating Weld that PBS played.  Kerry was fantastic.  He had a great line:

    "I can't believe you would talk about Medicare outside of a confessional."

    60% is 6 of 10 in a focus group. Change 1 mind, it's a dead heat. Change 2, it's a landslide. This campaign's a mechanism of persuasion. -WW

    by ssg012 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:37:48 AM PDT

    •  I want to see the Kerry/Weld debate (none / 0)

      Is the video (or even a transcript) on-line anywhere?

      by Geotpf on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:20:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was just thinking of Kerry v Weld (none / 1)

      Can you believe there were 8 debates?  Where the candidates were allowed to address each other?

      I watched a few, but I would have watched more had I known of the impending descent of the quality of political debate.

      Other Memorable Kerry lines (paraphrased, in response to Weld's reproach of Kerry for not supporting the death penalty) : "I know about killing.  I don't like killing."  Only, he said it a lot better.

      A Man Without A Country - Kurt Vonnegut

      by tedward on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:57:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is anyone else bothered by this (none / 1)

    From Networks Defy Presidential Debate Camera Rules
    Fox News Channel, whose turn it is under a rotation system to operate the "pool" cameras for all the networks in the first debate on Thursday in Coral Gables, Florida, said it would follow its own editorial judgment in operating its cameras.

    The networks say they'll show what they want to show, which is fine by me. The debates can't be an "exclusive" to any given network, so I guess they vie for camera operating rights. Why not choose some independent group for camera operation? Like CSPAN?

    It's the first debate...the one most people are likely to tune into...and Fox News is operating the cameras. I know Kerry knows this and will obviously be on his "best behavior" at all times, but talk about handicapping a game!

    BUSH: Like a rock...but dumber.
    Stewart/Olberman 2008!

    by mugsimo on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:38:55 AM PDT

    •  Pool Cameras (none / 0)

      These are just pool cameras.  They will be taking shots from many angles (unless there is some sort of blow-up about the number of cameras and their placement) and each network working with their feeds will be able to "produce" their own version of the debates.  Fox will not be providing the commentary for all of the other networks, just the camera shots. This happens with the State of the Union, the debates, and other big events.

      by eafredel on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:44:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just operating cameras, I think (none / 0)

      Fox basically just runs the cameras and provides feeds from all the cameras to the other networks. ABC, for example, can make decisions with regard to when Kerry is on screen and when Bush is on screen. It's really just a technical role they'll be playing.

      The only thing they could do would be to unplug the cameras that are on Kerry so those particular feeds aren't available to the other networks.

      Or, I guess, they could blow up a fuse box if Georgie is having his hat handed to him...

      by AllOrNothing on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:45:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, well... (none / 0)

        I don't know television production from squat, so I'm offering uneducated opinions here.

        If Fox is just pointing the cameras and providing the feed, then okay. As long as the individual producers from each network and/or cable company can get each feed and "point" as they see fit, then it's not a problem (or, not more of a problem then it will be anyway)

        I can see the fuse box blowing, though. Heh...

        Also curious as to whether or not the FCC's 10-second obscenity delay is in effect. 10 seconds is a long time for a producer on a mission...

        Okay, paranoid hat off, but close by...

        BUSH: Like a rock...but dumber.
        Stewart/Olberman 2008!

        by mugsimo on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:48:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  right (none / 0)

          I think you are right.  Ladies and gentlemen calm down.  I believe al that happens is Fox has camera's in the room but the networks can air whatever they want.  Besides, you dont think John Kerry is going to be trained for that eventuality?
          Remember our job is to make the media analyze the substance and not the style of this debate.

          by mihirbhatia on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:58:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  just me and you and these people: (none / 1)

      We've warned again and again that, above all else, the Kerry campaign had to guard against FOX News getting its hands on the debates.  We told you the Bush team would work any angle possible to get FOX involved, and that if the Kerry campaign allowed this, we've warned for months now, they would lose the election.  All seemed safe, as the moderators and hosts for the agreed to debates did not include FOX in any way, and it seemed unthinkable the Kerry campaign would allow FOX into the mix.

      But now we learn, as reported by CNN, FOX News will be entirely in control of the camera coverage for the entire media during the most important of the debates, the very first one scheduled for Thursday night.

      If the Kerry camp allows this, they will likely lose the election.

      More

      Help end world hunger by providing rice to hungry people for free.

      by OLinda on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:04:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am SO bothered (none / 1)

      I have, from the beginning, been the only optomist of all my friends and relatives.  Confident that Kerry's strengths and Bush's many weaknesses would eventually lead to a Kerry victory despite the useless (and often destructive) national press corp.  "Look at the Blogs! There's a grassroots movement out there that will save us."  This has been my mantra.

      Now, however, the Kerry camp and the networks have allowed Fox News to control the cameras!  This is LITERALLY (Yes, I understand the grammer and I mean LITERALLY) allowing Karl Rove to control the cameras. I am too depressed.

      by JSHoward on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 12:39:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A bunch of us (none / 0)

    A bunch of us are going to be on the IRC channel that kolors set up during the debates.  If you find you can't watch it with friends, feel free to come along and join us!

    "Well... you could always hang yourself!"

    by Jugwine on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:39:28 AM PDT

  •  ICQ? (none / 0)

    Is Kos still doing his ICQ chat tonite?
    If so, could he or someone post the directions again

    by pitbullEmily on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:40:04 AM PDT

  •  I have to watch (none / 0)

    It's an assignment for my students. "Democracy in action" and all that. Warts and all. ugh. At least I have a few Kerry fans in my classes to counteract the "no spin" spin. We'll have a fun discussion tomorrow (I hope).

    (-7.12, -4.15)ˇNo Pasarán!

    by pilgrim99 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:42:04 AM PDT

  •  to the people behind the scenes at dkos/scoop (4.00 / 6)

    as a fellow coder, my thoughts are with you today.  i imagine that you're scrambling around right now trying to get everything set for tonight... cuz you know the traffic is coming like a tidal wave!

    admirable job all around, hope everything is set in time!

    <applause>a round for you guys</applause>

    Where would we be right now without the internet?

    by johnny71 on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:43:47 AM PDT

  •  Opening lines (3.50 / 2)

    Regardless of the format, or what is said by the moderator, the first words out of Kerry's mouth should be an acknowledgment of the awful experience Floridians have had lately with natural disasters.  Then answer the first question.  I guarantee Bush will do it the first time he gets a chance to do it.  By winning the toss and going first, Kerry has the opportunity to have the first word on this.

    My favorite is Social Security.

    by DelRPCV on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:43:59 AM PDT

  •  I HAVE to watch this tonight, because... (none / 0)

    with all the news breaking this week, especially CBS Tues. night on this draft business that the republican'ts are plotting, there's no WAY they can avoid being asked about that.  Just this morning I heard a rumor that the lying bastards are now trying to put the whole thing on the DEMOCRATS!  Hah!   The republican't want the temperature set at 75 degrees, but when this subject comes up, I can't wait to see BUSH sweat!!!

    by deona on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:46:56 AM PDT

    •  They will try because of Rangel's bill. (none / 0)

      Charlie Rangel has called for a draft from the beginning. If the Republican's do put one in don't be surprised if they put something in for literally buying your way out of it for cash as is the old American tradition. They will get all history channel on us! It won't matter NOW to their DAR friends who have the money to keep young Skipper or Buffy out of service, oh, but of course, we wouldn't want to send our young damsels or any gay people over to fight, now would we.  Of course they will blame the democrats.  They are shameless!

      by Mcguffin on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 01:08:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  if they try that, watch us. (none / 1)

        you think a million people in the street protesting the invasion of iraq was something?  wait til you see us massing in protest if Bush tries to keep his daughters out of a draft.   If my child gets drafted, HIS GO TOO.  

        There are many arguments to raise about the draft, pro and con, but the bottom line is that if we need one, for any reason, there will be no more exceptions and no more deferments.  No more boils on the ass (Rush's deferment), college outs or "child of privilege" outs.

        The wealthy elite will still find ways to keep their clean, white children off of the front lines, but dammit, they are going to serve.  Best yet, let's just elect Kerry and avoid the whole nightmare.

        I rolled 'em up to get me through all 90 minutes of Bushwa.  Think three is enough?  I haven't looked Bush in the eye for three years, makes me too mad.

        by kate mckinnon on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:23:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Pro-draft Republicans (none / 0)

        In the 107th Congress, Nick Smith (R-MI) and Bob Walker (R-PA) co-sponsored H.R. 3598, which would have reinstated the draft.

        John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

        by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 02:32:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Debate Bingo (none / 0)

    http://www.planetsocks.com/bingo.asp

    fun for the whole family.

    by itchyredness on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:48:18 AM PDT

  •  the really important question (4.00 / 2)

    watching the cable news shows has convinced me that style really is more important than substance.  so i think the really important thing to look for in tonight's debates is whether the president is wearing french cuffs.  i've noticed a number of reports of this in the trenchant issue-oriented election reportage, so it must be a crucial factor for the american public.

    and i noted that ralph reed was wearing french cuffs on his appearance on the daily show the other night.

    personally i find this alarming - it shows that the republican party wants to outsource our national security policy to tel aviv paris.

    </sarcasm>

    l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

    by zeke L on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:51:57 AM PDT

  •  Yes it's important