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Who knows if it will stick, but at least some  questions are being asked. Is Karl Rove Consigliare for a criminal gang, as Pat Oliphant portrays in the cartoon below the fold? Or is Karl Rove a traitor? On Morning Sedition today, Poppy reports from Patridiot Watch that NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg thinks he may very well be:

July 12, 2005

Frank Lautenberg Accuses Karl Rove of Treason

On Air America's Morning Sedition, Mark Maron and Mark Riley were interviewing NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg regarding his call for Karl Rove to lose his security clearance as a result of the Plame leak.

Maron said, "Karl Rove is guilty of treason, isn't he?"

Lautenberg responded, "Yes, I think so."

When Senators are accusing White House Deputy Chiefs of Staff of treason, things have reached a new level.

offered for your enjoyment or critique from Liberal Street Fighter

The press, finally, seems to smell some blood leaking from the festering walking pile of corruption that is the Bush Administration. Dare we hope that some of this may stick? Will we finally get to see Ambassador Wilson's dream to come true?

It's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words.

Perhaps. Treason is a serious charge, but if things keep going they are, perhaps the charge might stick. Perhaps not legally, but maybe POLITICALLY. The White House and the Republican Party are in full Nixon mode, attacking the character of their enemies and double-talking and denying statements that they made in the past.

Keith Olbermann points out the implications of the allegations against Rove, that Karl Rove is Soft on terror. As the President's most trusted advisor, that means that the President is soft on terror. Take away his protector cred, and there really isn't much left other than appeals to homophobia and racism.

Karl Rove is a liability in the war on terror.

Rove -- Newsweek’s new article quotes the very emails -- told a Time reporter that Ambassador Joe Wilson’s trip to investigate of the Niger uranium claim was at the behest of Wilson’s CIA wife.

To paraphrase Mr. Rove, liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers; conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared to ruin the career of one of the country’s spies tracking terrorist efforts to gain weapons of mass destruction -- for political gain.

Politics first, counter-terrorism second -- it’s as simple as that.

Olbermann goes on to describe what it's like to live in fear after a terrorist attack; he describes the fear of the unattended bag:

Because it’s starting again. I was in the checkout line in a supermarket last night when one of New York’s countless little old ladies barked out something at the cashier: “Miss? Who does this bag belong to?” Uncomprehending, the checkout woman blinked at her. The older woman pointed at a gym bag that had been left near the store’s entrance, on a ledge below the delicatessen cabinet. Gefilta fish is an unlikely terrorist target to say the least, but the woman was absolutely right. “We’re supposed to report unattended bags. There could be a bomb in there.”

Silly, right? As silly as it would’ve been before last Thursday in London if somebody on the Underground had said to a fellow passenger, “There’s a bag of something here that doesn’t seem to belong to anybody.”

The current Administration, which has maintained its grip on power by stoking those fears, while doing little to actually protect us, may be demonstrably run by people who've actively made the problem worse:

We’re back in those times, thanks to the London attacks. Needless to say, the 2001 bag at Yankee Stadium was no more threatening than the 2005 bag at the Associated Supermarket. But if we’re going to have to live our lives looking for them, I damn well don’t want political morons in positions where they can deliberately screw up counter-terrorism measures. I know we already have to live with the idea that they’ll do it accidentally.

Any time I’ve criticized the current administration here or on the air, I’ve gotten the same idiotic emails from the same idiotic people who’ve never been touched by terrorism. They brand me a liberal who doesn’t understand that terrorists want the next unattended bag to be filled with WMD. Their position is incredible on its face; in the light of the confirmation of the Karl Rove revelation it would assume the quality of farce, were it not so deadly serious.

And the bottom line is this: in the metaphoric department of the war on terror, Karl Rove not only leaves bags unattended - he does it intentionally.

I don't know if any of this will stick. They are slippery creatures, these Republicans, and they may ooze right off of this hook. In the meantime, I'm going to crack a beer and enjoy the show.

[UPDATED] Sharper title. Thanks for the suggestion Al

[UPDATED] CSPAN will rebroadcast Scottie getting beat up over Rove @ 11:22 EDT tonight according to CSPAN's schedule.

Originally posted to Madman in the marketplace on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 05:38 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Great diary--thanks, and will (4.00)
    recommend.  I loved Olbermann's piece--especially his use of the term "near bag experience."

    ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

    by bibble on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 05:37:59 PM PDT

    •  I was looking forward to Olbermann tonight (4.00)
      and they've preempted him for some bullshit puff piece about the Space Shuttle. I bet the odious Carlson will be on soon though.
      •  sure enough (4.00)
        Tucker is on right now reading off of one of Mehlman's fax.

        Fucker, and fuck MSNBC for continuously preempting the one show on their fucking schedule worth watching.

        •  Treason is a big word, which Lautenberg should ... (none)
          ... use with caution. He was "baited" in that interview.

          Treason. A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy. The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance; or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power. Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort. Cramer v. U. S., U.S.N.Y., 325 U.S. l, 65 S.Ct. 918, 9327 89 L.Ed. 1441. See 18 U.S.C.A. § 2381. A person can be convicted of treason only on the testimony of two witnesses, or confession in open court. Art. III, Sec. 3, U.S. Constitution.

          "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

          by SteinL on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 06:53:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well (4.00)
            Like I said, there is LEGAL treason, and there is POLITICAL treason ... I'd be happy w/ the political. The right has been using it against us for 50 years. Turnabout is fair play.

            This is a bloodmatch now, and being careful has gotten us NOWHERE.

            We need to back him up if the Republicans go after him.

          •  i think we can afford (4.00)
            to be bolder in calling it treason because the GOP press machine cannot refute it without repeating the word, which will get people thinking about what it means in this context.

            You must be the change you wish to see in the world- Mahatma Gandhi

            by limaike on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 07:52:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  By "foreign power" (none)
            ... they mean "Democrats," right?

            "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

            by Lilibeth on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:29:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, no, no! (4.00)
            Treason is a good charge to bring. The right wing crazies throw that word around at every chance they get. If we dissent, we are treasonous, if we disagree with anything King George says in a time of war, we are guilty of treason. What the hell did they just do to Dick Durbin, well, they called him a traitor. We need to say it over and over, louder and louder. Karl Rove is a traitor, he exposed a CIA agent, and he did it for simple revenge. Not one care for her safety, or for the safety of the people she worked with or associated with. He is a no good traitor. Some one has to have the balls to say it, or are they all afraid of big bad Karl.
            •  "Treason" a distraction (4.00)
              I believe the rightwing does it--and does it better--through insinuation. The charge, "treason," is over the top and thus provides a distraction for Rove's misdeeds.

              I suggest instead saying that Rove put "party above country," a phrase I hope would be publicly repeated several thousand times.

              There's resonance in that phrase, because the Republicans have been guilty of such zealotry, and it scares a lot of Americans. Think Nixon and Watergate (what with the revelation of Deep Throat, Watergate is back in the public consciousness) as well as hints that hyping war with Iraq was mainly designed to gain domestic political advantage.

              Plus, and granted this may be too historically arcane, but Rove learned the craft of political dirty tricks at the feet of the criminal, Donald Segretti. It would be nice to connect those dots.

              Subvert the dominant paradigm--play accordion.

              by millennialpaine on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 09:44:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  See that is our problem (4.00)
                That is exactly why we get ignored. Even with this we are being ignored. I am not for hyperbole, but we do need to question Rove's patritoism, like the right does all the time. Remember Valarie Palme was, at the very least, a CIA anylst working on WMD's. At the very time the whole U.S. was worried to death of Saddam having WMD's. That is, after all, the reason given for going to war with Iraq, the threat of a "mushroom cloud". I am so sick of hearing all the Bush apologists saying "we don't know if a crime has been committed here". It is not about it being a crime or not a crime. It is simply about being a true patriot, and not exposing CIA agents. All the time people talk on this blog about "framing". How we need to frame issues. Well here we have something we can work on. Democrats are being called traitors for simply opposing President Bush on anything "during a time of war". Now, we have Karl Rove, who, we have been told over and over again, sets policy, for reasons of revenge and retribution, exposing a CIA covert operative. They are winning the framing wars. All over the place, the talk is "What did Karl Rove tell a reporter, and was it a crime"? That is not the issue, the issue is that he did it. With Watergate the actual crime was a "3rd rate burgerly". It is what was behind the crime. The same is true here. Abuse of power, and national security knowledge. If Bush was not President and Rove was not his right hand man, would he have known Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA agent, probably not. Rove abused his position of power and the knowledge that came with that position to seek personal revenge on Joe Wilson. Sorry, but that makes him a traitor. Yes he put party before country, but that doesn't sound as bad as treason. One needs to wonder if he would give away other national secrets for the sake of his party. Secrets he is privy to, the man will do anything to win, and that is what we have to drive home. He can wrap himself up in the Flag, but when it comes down to it, he cares nothing for America.
              •  "party above country" excellent (none)

                Good phrase there.  And I think we should use both.  

                Though, "traitor" is more usable than "treason," as follows:

                "Karl committed treason" uses the verb-form "to do": the person did the deed.  

                "Karl is a traitor" uses the verb-form "to be": the person IS the thing named.  

                "Traitor" is an identity.  That is much harder to shake than an action.  

          •  well, Rove certainly gave aid and comfort! (none)
             - - since all the networks that were blown up when he outed Plame are no longer operatie, and it's therefore easier to sneak WMD to terrorist -

            I don't know how you prove "adherence" - bus seems to me you could prove aid and comfort!

          •  Let's see... (none)
            Treason. A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy. [...]

            Well, considering that in democratic societies (allegedly including the United States), the government is supposed to represent the people. By extension, the actions of Rove (and again by extension, the entire Bush regime) could then be considered as a "breach of allegiance to the people".

            Sounds straightforward enough to me.

          •  I think outing an undercover CIA Operative (none)
            does give aid and comfort to our enemies, frankly.

            By Larry Johnson Jul 13, 2005 -- 12:47:20 AM EST

            From: TPMCafe Special Guests

            EXCERPTS (REVISED) The misinformation being spread in the media about the Plame affair is alarming and damaging to the longterm security interests of the United States. Republicans' talking points are trying to savage Joe Wilson and, by implication, his wife, Valerie Plame as liars. That is the truly big lie.

            For starters, Valerie Plame was an undercover operations officer until outed in the press by Robert Novak...

            Valerie Plame was a classmate of mine from the day she started with the September 1985. All of my classmates were undercoverwas a get out of jail free card.

            A few of my classmates, and Valerie was one of these, became a non-official cover officer. That meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed. The lies by people like Victoria Toensing, Representative Peter King, and P. J. O'Rourke insist that Valerie was nothing, just a desk jockey. Yet, until Robert Novak betrayed her she was still undercover and the company that was her front was still a secret to the world. When Novak outed Valerie he also compromised her company and every individual overseas who had been in contact with that company and with her.

            ..."I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached. For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC...

            They try to hide behind the specious claim that Joe Wilson "lied". Although Joe did not lie...Joe Wilson...tried to prevent the needless death of Americans and the loss of American prestige in the world.

            But don't take my word for it, read the biased Senate intelligence committee report. Even though it was slanted to try to portray Joe in the worst possible light this fact emerges on page 52 of the report: According to the US Ambassador to Niger (who was commenting on Joe's visit in February 2002), "Ambassador Wilson reached the same conclusion that the Embassy has reached that it was highly unlikely that anything between Iraq and Niger was going on." Joe's findings were consistent with those of the Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford.

            The Republicans insist on the lie that Val got her husband the job. She did not...the decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses.

            ...Shame on those who continue to slander Joe Wilson while giving Bush and his pack of liars a pass. That's the true outrage.

            It is a very mixed blessing to be brought back from the dead.

            by Steven D on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 04:55:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you (none)
              for posting that.  What a powerful bit of evidence.  
              I am guessing that Bush has been in on this since the beginning and that he has been treasonous in this matter and in his dealing with Saudi Arabia.  His loyalty has always been to international oil wealth.

              Tired of the corporate DLC suck ups?WE'VE GOT DEANS BACK

              by TeresaInPa on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 05:38:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Write them to tell them you're pissed (none)
          Let them know.
        •  Yes that is irritating (none)
          But notice how seldom they interrupt or fail  to air that horrible Joe Scarborough. almost never. But they have no problem not airing Keith O. Funny how his show gets cancelled and if there is an event to be reported on by a panel that interrupts their shows, there is Scarborough on the panel with Buchanan..heaven forbid we do not see them all day....( sarcasm).  But we must get Tucker and Joe in there..puke..gag..

          And then I made the mistake of flipping through channels in enough time to accidentally see Joe Biden saying we should give the President the benefit of the doubt and see what he does. Then he went on gushing about Bush's strengths.
          When asked by Matthews if Biden wished the Democrats had someone like Rove, Biden hesistated a second and just said with a big Grin, Yes.
          So he obviously and once again does not get it.
          Matthews gave him a chance to lay into Rove and Bush and instead he made excuses for Bush !!!!

          Biden wishes the Democrats had someone like Rove, is he dreaming , asleep at the wheel or does not mind corruption.

          We choose hope over despair; possibilities over problems, optimism over cynicism.-John Edwards

          by wishingwell on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 01:02:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Our Frames (4.00)
        Why assume that Rove only did it once?

        Talking points: (Scotty edition)

        "What other national security secrets is Rove giving away?"

        "Should the American people be worried about the White House risking the safety of CIA agents to score political points?"

        "Does the President understand the urgency of ridding the White House of employees who are giving away national security information?"

      •  Rove is a four letter word (none)
        so is RICO

        it's much more than Rove, in context of RICO one can comprehend the extend to which Wilson's words were "measured"

      •  Olbermann is on vacation (none)
        And they're not about to allow his replacement crew to forge their careers on Rove-bashing. NBC is a corporate puppet after all.
  •  Oh, It's Gonna Stick Alright (4.00)
    Even the dumbest of the dumb know that when when of our guys gets outed and we loose a network that was working to protect us, we got serious trouble.

    BTW, anybody else notice the the term WMD has dissappeared from the Bush Crime Company, Inc., lexicon altogether?

    You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

    by mattman on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 05:44:55 PM PDT

  •  President Bush Is Soft On Terror (4.00)
    Now there's a phrase we should be using often.  

    President Bush's closest advisor ruined an important U.S. anti-terror intelligence operation, and not only has President Bush promoted that close advisor during the two full years since his act of sabotage, President Bush to this day will not fire the advisor, even though the close advisor's anti-American actions have now become public knowledge.

    Is President Bush with us or against us?  

    If he's with us, he sure is soft on terror.

    "The use of federal dollars to destroy life is something I simply do not support" -- George W. Bush

    by Irfo on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 05:53:11 PM PDT

  •  Great cartoon. (4.00)
    Randi Rhodes was basking in the mob idea today, complete with Goodfellas soundtrack and quotes from the movie. Good stuff.

    I see W as being more of an Uncle Junior real power, limited mobility, near helplessness.

    Reigning Welterweight Female Piefighter since 1998

    by ablington on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 05:53:16 PM PDT

  •  Please change the Diary title (4.00)
    this is a really good diary.

    The title needs to be sharp

    Something like:  US Senator says "Rove is Traitor"

    Randi Rhodes called him an "enemy of the country"

    The languaged needed to market this message has to be sharp.

    Frank and Keith and hammer the Traitor

    Five CIA officers have testified to the Senate, saying that outing Plame has severely damaged national security.

    •  When Did They Testify And (4.00)
      are their yummy transcripts to quote?  Please tell me there are, my birthday is coming right up.

      Definite recommend!

      You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

      by mattman on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 06:21:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Finally, a visual representation (4.00)
    of the Bush Crime Family.  

    It ain't really what you'd call change. It's all happened before and it'll happen again with a different set of facts. -Gloria Naylor

    by GN1927 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 06:19:02 PM PDT

  •  Or as was pointe dout on AAR yesterday... (4.00)
    while doing little to actually protect us, may be demonstrably run by people who've actively made the problem worse:

    Might want to make it read:

    while spending less than we do on 3 hours of operations in Iraq then we do to actually protect our rail and above-ground transit systems, may be demonstrably run by people who've actively made the problem worse:


    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 06:33:04 PM PDT

  •  I hope we have Lautenberg's back (4.00)
    because I know the Repug response to his comment is going to be VICIOUS. Look at what they did to Dick Durbin and forced him to issue an undeserved simpering apology. Maybe Lautenberg feels free to tell the truth because he's 81 and unlikely to run for another term. Personally, I'd love for him to stay on.  He may be old, but he's more of a man than guys half his age.
  •  remember richard clarks' book title (4.00)
    against all enemies

    and the second half of that phrase:

    "foreign and domestic."

    treason's a hangin' crime.

    crimson gates reek with meat and wine/while on the streets, bones of the frozen dead -du fu (712-770)

    by wu ming on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 06:34:51 PM PDT

  •  Oh Yeah (4.00)
    what balls Lautenberg has, eh?

    Rove's a traitor!


    dude, please get a clue and admit the ENTIRE bush administration is far and away the most traitorous, treasonous, lying criminal psychopaths that ever stepped foot into the white house.

    they make uncle ronnie reagan and bush I appear to be pikers. back when we had some real democrats in office, they handed down SIXTY-TWO federal indictments of various members of the reagan administration. 62!!

    "funny" thing is.. rove, dumbsfeld, cheney, poindexter, etc., ALL began their criminal careers with reagan!

  •  They are totally in full (4.00)
    Nixon mode.

    But do you know what sticks in my craw when I hear people liken this to Watergate?  The fact that BushCo benefits from the likening of their crime to Watergate.  BushCo's crime is SO MUCH GREATER than the crime that took place in Watergate -- it's in a different league from Watergate -- that standing the Plame leak next to Watergate makes Plame look less serious than it is.

    I think we should be very clear how much WORSE THAN WATERGATE this is.

    •  Bingo (none)
      Watergate has more in common with Thonggate (i.e. Lewinsky) than it does with outing/endangering a covert operative. This is more along the lines of Iran Contra. Then again, since no one made a movie about Iran Contra that starred Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman, I'd say that half the country or more still doesn't even know what went on there.

      "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

      by Lilibeth on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 07:52:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Whatever it is (none)
        named, for the love of god let it usurp *gate and bury it forever.

        Am I the only one tired of *gate?

        How about "way worse-gate?"

        Damn. that gate word again!

        The GOP and the Elephant are both Introduced Species

        by roboton on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:29:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  All I know is, (none)
        That Ollie North feller shore did seem mighty heroic on the Teevee.  He had a short haircut!  And all those stars on his shoulder and whatnot.  

        Why, my l'il tyke has him an Ollie North action figure, right next to the Bush Flightsuit action figure in his collection.  He makes believe they're havin' councils of war and stuff.

        [I wish I was making it up about the Ollie North action figures.  Yet alas, I shit you not.]

        Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

        by Dale on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:51:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Get John Dean's book (none)
      "Worse than Watergate."  I just got it from the library, just started it.  

      War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

      by Margot on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:33:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's fantastic (none)
        He thought Bush would lose the election, but said if he did get a second term he doubted he would finish it. Mr. Dean thinks he will be impeached in 2007. I don't agree, I just hope we get the house back and can start having hearings.

        Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. Albert Einstein

        by DrSpike on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 09:05:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I watched Watergate (none)
          Unfold from a 2-paragraph story in the Albuquerque Journal, all the way  through the hearings.  Talk about riveting.
           I've read John Dean's articles in Findlaw's Writ

          but you may already know about this.
          I don't think I agree with him either.  We'll just have to wait and see, though.

          War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

          by Margot on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 09:52:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  No Offense, but... (none)
      Watergate was just as bad.  Spying on political opponents.  Using the FBI and IRS against opponents.  Those were troubled times and Nixon and his henchmen were criminals who obstructed justice.

      The difference is that Nixon also had honor and a sense of dignity that caused him to obey the court, turn over the tapes, and ultimately resign.  He was not in it just for power and believed in a constitutional system, even though he violated the law.  

      Bush and his thugs are amoral and hypocritical.  They are American fascists.  They care ONLY about power and will use and abuse anyone or anything to use the power, increase it, and exercise it.

      In the end, Bush is more dangerous because of the consolidation of power at his disposal, the congress, the fundamentalists, etc.  He will use them to the bitter end.  He could care less about America or the world.  He is an insecure tyrant, pretending he is better than Saddam, but just as bad, especially considering the respective countries and political systems involved.

      It is all the previous lies and misdeeds, never fully exposed to most Americans, that are the real crimes of Bush, especially his illegal war.  Plame may help the many to discover the previous wrongs, which in totality are worse than Watergate, but Plame, itself, is not worse than wrongs of the Watergate era.

  •  Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (none)
    In the face of this week's revelations, it is unfathomable that the White House, having repeatedly proclaimed its intent on getting to the truth of the matter, should now refuse to help the American people understand why a New York Times reporter should sit in jail for not giving up her sources but why Rove should keep his job. If, as it now appears, Rove did leak the information, Bush should do what he said he was going to do: fire him, if Rove doesn't resign first.
    •  wow, thanks for pointing that out (none)
      that was in the Journal Sentinel?

      Had to go look for it, and here's the link

      For some time, President Bush and other administration officials have expressed their outrage over the unmasking of a CIA operative and declared their determination to help find out who leaked her name to the press and then to fire that person. But on Monday, when asked repeated questions on this subject, White House spokesman Scott McClellan shut up tighter than a clam.

      This sudden silence is unacceptable. It obviously stems from the very real possibility that Karl Rove, Bush's top political adviser, is the leaker or one of them. Rove's dodging in this matter, in fact, has been so transparent as to undermine his credibility.

      Thanks for pointing it out. This is a big deal if complacent papers like the JS start printing editorials like this one.

  •  asdf (none)
    I love Frank. He is fearless. Oh, and he won't care what the republicans have to say about this.

    This is the BEST DIARY EVER!

    by Marlboro Lite on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 07:33:27 PM PDT

  •  We all have to be on point for any Democratic (4.00)
    Senator or House Rep. who sticks his or her neck out and has the courage to truthfully use the 'T' word. If the Senator from NJ is the first Senator to have the courage to say Rove is a traitor, then he just painted a big bulleye on his forehead for the echochamber, and he's going to need backup from everyone.  

    The GOP spin is that this is all partisan piffle, and the smears and attacks are going to be fierce because of the stakes being so high.

    I expect that the Senator will be the target of a quickdraw character assassination campaign starting tomorrow, and with one bread-dead CNN anchor already saying this is an anti-Rove smear campaign the Democrats are going to need all the help they can get.

    You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. -Malcolm X

    by LeftHandedMan on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 07:37:24 PM PDT

  •  Let me say this about that (4.00)
    I originally was going to post this as a diary, but GOd knows we have enough Rove diaries, so I will just post it as a comment.

    Karl Rove is still the "subject" of an inquiry by Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald.  So far as I know, Fitzgerald, himself, has not made any public statements.  As much as I would like to see this bastard (Rove)  fried , we must avoid the appearance of partisanship and let the investigation proceed.

    As you might guess, I just had a conversation with my repug friend.  She was outraged, "the dems this, the dems that, blah, blah, blah."  However she is right about something - show me the evidence.  Insomuch as I believe that no amount of evidence will satisfy her, I need evidence to satisfy me.  I belong to he reality based community.  

    •  since when (4.00)
      did evidence EVER stop THEM from attacking.

      This is politics. In uncertain times like this, politics is a barfight in Deadwood. It's poked eyes and blood and torn knuckles and bitten off ears.

      Being careful has gotten us NOWHERE.

      A conservative I know said to me today that maybe there WAS something to the "Plame thing" I'd told him about.

      •  You are sooooo right....... (4.00)
        the GOP does not wait for truth, they make their own!!

        If you look at what they are trying to do with Bush, Rove or whatever they do, truth, evidence, honesty....takes a back seat to winning, destroying and protecting their party, not the country.
        Until, we stop playing nice with them and call them out.....we loose!!!

        "These guys are biggest bunch of lying crooks I have ever seen" John Kerry

        by alnc on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:14:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree (none)
          Like Yeats said, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
          LET'S GET WORSE!

          "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

          by Lilibeth on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:32:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't get worse (4.00)
            I get even

            I'm one who enjoyed gnawing Nixon's skull

            I'm gonna enjoy gnawing bush's skull too, watch me

            •  Dante reference? (none)
              Maybe not- ISTR Ugolino was guilty himself...  

              "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

              by Lainie on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 01:36:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  twisted from a Hunter Thompson reference (none)
                from "where the buffalo roam"

                it was something like this:

                'Lazzlo and Nixon are gone now, but I won't believe that Nixon is dead until I gnaw on his skull'

                Johnny Depp is good, but Bill Murray is GREAT

                •  Heh. HST stole from the best. :-) (none)
                  Dante's Inferno, canto 33- a story about Count Ugolino della Gherardesca, who was a traitor against the city-state of Pisa. the count- along with two sons (Gaddo and Uguiccione) and two grandsons (Anselmo and Brigata)- were arrested and imprisoned. They were held in a tower for eight months until, with a change in the ghibelline leadership of Pisa, it was decided to nail shut the door to the tower and to throw the key into the river Arno. They starved to death, as Dante's Ugolino recalls, in a matter of days (Inf. 33.67-75). The man responsible for Ugolino's deposition and capture, one Ruggieri, is the guy whose skull Ugolino is gnawing on. Grisly at best, but an image that many writers have made reference to, credited or no. You can bet HST knew where he got it...

                  "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

                  by Lainie on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 10:19:28 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't bet on what HST "Knew" (none)
                    I love the man and his work, but I don't think we could find a less credible witness if we held a contest

                    his recollection of the Mint 400 just a few days after he MIGHT have witnessed it, demonstrates a lack of memory on Mr. Thompson's part

                    I won't speculate about the cause

    •  Ask her how much evidence (4.00)
      she would need if this had happened in the Clinton administration.
    •  Patrick Fitzgerald (4.00)
      has the evidence.

      Will Bush wait until he hears it to can Rove?

      He may.  If he does, then the question becomes about what Bush knew and when he knew it.

  •  All the talking points we'll need... (4.00)
    can be summed up in that one word:


    We just need to reiterate the facts of the case and then finish by calling Rove a traitor, it's that simple. The man helped burn a covert operative in the War on Terror, he can never get out from under that. Ever Democrat in the country should be hammering this non-stop every chance they get.

    The GOP talking points are a bunch of spin and obfuscation, they'll never go anywhere against the simple facts of the case and the ugly fact that Rove is an amoral bastard.

    Call him out for what he is and we win against anything they can throw back at us because they've got nothing.

  •  Here's an interesting reference: (4.00)

    Not only that, but I found out about this from Yahoo's "most recommended" list.  When I read it, it had 142 recommendations at 4-1/2 stars.  

    Then, a few minutes (literally) later, I went to find it again on that list and it was gone.  Weird.  Even the extended "most recommended" list had no trace of it.    Weirder.

    I found it with my history, and looked.  Only 5 recommends, and down to 4 stars.  Bizarre.

    Now, about 10 minutes later, it's at 114 recommends and 4-1/2 stars.

    Why were the recommendations for this article erased?

    Anyone know?

    Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom.... Tao de Ching

    by MyName on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:02:45 PM PDT

  •  I love Frank Lautenburg (4.00)
    when he called all these "warriors" calling for war, CHICKENHAWKS on the Senate Floor! Had the poster of a chickenhawk as well. I loved it, this is one of our real heros and and he does not tolerate these fools.

    I was wondering when we would get some cover from our Dem Leadership or someone other than Dean and I knew it would be our Man, Frank!! Now, if he could get that spinless, muddering Biden to stay away from a camera or get a spine, I would love it. I love this guy, thanks To Frank for saying what every Dem should be saying.............question......if the shoe was on the other foot and a Dem was accused of doing this what would Rover be doing to us......answer......CALLING US TRAITORS!!!!

    "These guys are biggest bunch of lying crooks I have ever seen" John Kerry

    by alnc on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:09:19 PM PDT

    •  I never thought I'd say this ... (none)
      .... but between Frank and Rush Holt, I'm ... PROUD TO BE FROM JERSEY.
      There. I said it, and it didn't hurt at all.

      "Nature favors the apt, not the strong or the weak." Louis Sullivan

      by Lilibeth on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:35:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My ex-girlfriend is from South Jersey (none)
        and I hate her, but love Frank. So, I never thought I'd say nice things about NJ ever again, but ya gotta love Lautenburg!!!!

        "These guys are biggest bunch of lying crooks I have ever seen" John Kerry

        by alnc on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:43:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Chicken Feet (none)
    I love Rove's chicken feet under the table in the cartoon.  LOFL.

    I hate these fuckers.

    Sorry for no more insight, but I'm trying to get some work done.  But I love the chicken feet.  Chickenhawk douchebag.

  •  It's not a party issue (none)

    As long as it seems Dems against Repubs... nothing will get done. As I posted in the pink slip thread... we need this to be handled seriously. It was perpetrated against America... not just Dems. The second source needs to be outed as well... two in the WH not just Rove... not to mention the NSA stuff...

    If  Dems continue to make this a partisan issue... they will lose the popularity contest.... it needs to be phrased as

    CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION...... or "Is Rove Guilty of a CRIME AGAINST AMERICA?" "Was this a Crime Against America?"  " Knowingly or unknowingly what was the result ?" " Unknowingly does not mean innocent"

    Leave the left...right out of it.

    If he wants to stick to "Unknowingly" then fine "Rove unknowingly helped effectively shutting down this particular operation"

    It is somewhat disappointing that there is a pink slip thing at all... do criminals get pink slips?

    This should not be relegated to some prank...

    It will serve no purpose and make the Dems seem superficial. Yet again...They need to be demanding to know who the other leak is... or making laws that will charge those who hold back any information in this type of or not. There are some thing for which holding back facts just cannot be accepted... and this was not a whistleblower... this was not done to disclose wrong doings within gov't...this was done for self interests...

    The demand for the truth needs to be deafening and unyeilding

    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

    by jigsaw68 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 08:52:32 PM PDT

    •  respectfully (none)
      I think you're wrong. Things get traction because someone champions them. The Dems can do that while emphasizing that Rove hurt the country, and two straight press gaggles show that the press smells some blood.
      •  yes but... (none)
         There is nothing wrong with a Dem saying something... or presenting a bill that addresses the problem... But I think they can do that and keep the issue as inclusive as possible.

        I do not think that presenting it as a Dem vs Repub issue will serve to liberate many Repubs away from places like Faux...and their twisted view of Dems picking on a hero...

        But when it is a collective voice calling for truth and justice........ agreeing that this should not be tolerated... no matter if it is your own party or not.

        My point is that we need to adopt wording that will be freely used by those on both sides...the crime was one against all Americans... not just the Left leaning...

        "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

        by jigsaw68 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 09:29:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  TRAITOR Frame - Credit Bush Senior (4.00)
    I see some concern upthread about Democrats using the terms "traitor" and "treason."

    However, there is an easy answer:

    "Traitor" was the word used by George H.W. Bush to describe people who engaged in this precise activity.  That's former Republican president and CIA director, George H.W. Bush.

    Moreover, Bush didn't just say "traitor," he said:

    "They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors."


    •  Duh dude (none)
      thanks for the reminder, but ...


      I've been calling this an act of treason for two years

      all the constitutionally required pieces are here:

      an Act of War, an Enemy, aid or comfort to that Enemy, TWO witnesses to that act of aid or comfort

      I don't NEED George Herbert Walker Bush to tell me this is treason, but still, he did say it first

    •  The full quote is worth repeating (4.00)
      "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors."
      --President George H.W. Bush

      I included this as my "comment" when signing Rep. Slaughter's petition.

      "We can win elections only by standing up for what we believe." --Howard Dean

      by Jim in Chicago on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 10:37:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That was in connection with Phil Agee (none)
        Who published "Inside the Company: a CIA Diary" which contained information that it was claimed would endanger CIA operations and operatives around the world.

        Philip Agee was later the target of a probable sting in Mexico City, through which it was alleged that he had assisted Cuba in attempting to get information concerning CIA operations in Mexico - though the details are hazy on this one, as some have Agee down as a Cuban spy.

        Agee did win a lawsuit for libel against Barbara Bush, when she charged that he had published the name of the Athens CIA station head and that was what got him killed.

        "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

        by SteinL on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 01:10:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Karl Rove is a traitor (none)
    It needs repeating again and again. It will hurt republicans if all dems can stick to this one line. However, it means Dems sticking to the line when the repubs counterattack. I'm not sure Dem's are strong enough to do this, but let's hope.
  •  Karl Benedict Arnold Rove (none)
    Let's not blink whenever Republicans start crying through their right-wing talk show lackeys and other supporters. Karl Rove is a traitor to America and deserves every bit as much notoriety as Benedict Arnold does in our history.
  •  Change the diary title (none)
    The diary title is misleading.  It attributes a false quotation to Senator Lautenberg.  Quotation marks aren't for emphasis or paraphrase.  
  •  If a Mob Boss Says to a Hitman (none)
    If a Mob Boss Says to a Hit Man, "Kill Jim Smith's Wife," Can He Claim He Didn't Order the Murder Because He Didn't Mention Her Name? Apparently, That's Karl Rove's Thinking.

     Okay, so I'm a Mafia Don, and I'm upset because one of my "made men's" wives is talking out of school and bad mouthing me around town, and sloppily saying things that could get me indicted. Nothing seems to stop her. So, I tell one of my hit men, "take care of Paoli's wife. Make sure her tongue doesn't talk anymore." But I don't tell the hit man the name of Paoli's wife. So when I am indicted for ordering the murder of Paoli's wife, my lawyer says, "Your Honor, my client never mentioned Mrs. Paoli by name, so he can't be guilty. It was all the hit man's fault, because my client never told him to kill Mrs. Paoli by name."

    Okay, no jury or prosecutor would buy that. All things being equal, the Mafia Don would be found guilty of murder for hire and end up with a long sentence in Sing Sing.

    Yet, Karl Rove's lawyer -- the one with the checkered past himself -- succeeded in getting the "hair splitting" distinction insinuated into the media that if Rove didn't say Valerie Plame, he can't be guilty, even if he identified her as Joe Wilson's wife. If that's the case, Rove should be fired for idiocy and then tried for treason.

    GOP knows it can get away with murder. Heaven help us all!

    by lawnorder on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 11:38:39 PM PDT

  •  Isn't treason punishable by....... (none)
    Bwaaaa Haaaaaaa Haaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Just when they think they know the answers, I change the question!" R.Piper

    by McGirk SF on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 12:15:33 AM PDT

    •  LOL! (none)
      I think the appropriate Federal Prison would be Joliet ,Illinois or Lewisburg, PA Blue States. That would be sweet, Rove has to be in prison in a blue state.

      We have some rather famous famous federal prisons in our area.
      Lewisburg PA: where Jimmy Hoffa served his time
      and in little White Deer, PA where the Watergate guys like Haldeman, Erhlichman, Mitchell, Dean and others served time following Watergate.

      We choose hope over despair; possibilities over problems, optimism over cynicism.-John Edwards

      by wishingwell on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 01:17:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Mmmm... what a meal- (none)
    I would count Rove's Head On A Platter as an hors d'oeuvre, with the appropriate garnish. Roast Cheney with an apple in his mouth will be the meat course, and W can comprise the vegetable tray. Donny Boy can be covered with butter and sour cream and baked for 50 min at 450. And for dessert? Condi, crushed and over ice cream...

    With a large bowl of Pepto afterward, because as delicious as it will be, I know we're all feeling sick.

    "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

    by Lainie on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 01:12:15 AM PDT

  •  Pollardizing the War on Terror (none)
    Ole' Jonathan's just a couple of hours up the road from where I live.

    Karl and he can swap stories on how many agents and operatives are dead or imprisoned because of their actions.

    That, and their respective justifications for dropping dimes on Americans on the line.

    Wilbur from Charlotte's Web turned out okay, and he was just some pig. :)

    by cskendrick on Wed Jul 13, 2005 at 02:07:51 AM PDT

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