Daily Kos

Spying on the new terrorists: gays

by kos

Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:15:16 AM PDT

Well, this is who they're spying on:

According to recent press reports, Pentagon officials have been spying on what they call "suspicious" meetings by civilian groups, including student groups opposed to the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" ban on lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. The story, first reported by Lisa Myers and NBC News last week, noted that Pentagon investigators had records pertaining to April protests at the State University of New York at Albany and William Patterson College in New Jersey. A February protest at NYU was also listed, along with the law school's LGBT advocacy group OUTlaw, which was classified as "possibly violent" by the Pentagon. A UC-Santa Cruz "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" protest, which included a gay kiss-in, was labeled as a "credible threat" of terrorism.

And we're supposed to trust King Bush will only use his self-appointed god-like powers for good?

  • ::

Tags: gays, pentagon (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 189 comments

  •  COINTELPRO all over again (4.00 / 12)

    Just sickening. If people aren't thrown out of office and jailed for this behavior then this country is deader than we think.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
    Neither is California High Speed Rail

    by eugene on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:16:26 AM PDT

  •  I don't trust ANYTHING about and/or with Dumbya (4.00 / 5)

    and his administration...let alone with this whole fiasco.

    Senator Tom Harkin: Bush has vetoed him more than any senator.

    by Los Diablo on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:16:37 AM PDT

    •  A new low (4.00 / 5)

      Today is a new low for me, for the first time in my life I am not outraged by the abuses of the Bush administration, I am literally desensitized to it.  Short of finding out the Bush himself ordered the 9/11 attacks, I don't think that anything this administrtaion can do to shock me.  I completely expect this type of behavior from them now.  In fact I would be SHOCKED if they actually did something productive for this country.  I have used up all my rage and now I feel like a lost puppy dog.

      I used to be a republican, then I hit puberty.

      by artofthestate on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:41:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Take a breather, AOTS (4.00 / 2)

        You're having a perfectly normal response to evil. By its very nature, evil is exhausting to normal beings. It's terribly hard for any thinking, caring person to absorb this much garbage and not choke. It's awful and powerless to be one (or 70000+) amongst roughly a 3rd of a billion countrymen/women. Much humility and self-kindness are required to keep your head and heart reined in just enough that you don't burn out. I failed resoundingly the first time out, obsessed like hell and was politically out of action for >20 years.

        Wishing you peace and constructive letting-go.

        -5.63, -4.92

        by raincrow on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 12:01:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You just may have one more shock coming. (none / 0)

        "McCain lies 50% of the time; I'm not exactly sure about what, since he's on both sides of every issue." -Texasblu

        by davidincleveland on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 12:34:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Speaking of puppy dogs (none / 0)

        Unless George Bush gets caught fucking one on live tv you are stuck with him.

        Think about it.

        No wonder the defence department is spying on everyone who makes a peep.

        These are horrifying times.

        Religion is indeed the opiate of the masses.

        Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

        by drag0n on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 05:25:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  At last - the Gay Agenda revealed! (4.00 / 8)

    They all thought we were kidding when we sent around that email joke about the Gay Agenda (gym, brunch, then world domination by 4:00 pm)...

    by Torta on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:17:37 AM PDT

  •   ot Just gotta tell someone (none / 0)

    Sen. Stevens is flailing about on the Senate floor wearing an Incredible Hulk tie!

    Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

    by high uintas on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:18:09 AM PDT

    •  f'real? (none / 0)

      don't tell me - he's all acting like his feeling are hurt that the other senators are pissed off at him over the ANWR rider.

      think he's going to say, "you wouldn't like me when i'm angry?"

      the truth is, ted, people don't like you even when you ain't angry.

      l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

      by zeke L on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:56:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, no, not a GAY KISS-IN!!!! (4.00 / 8)

    Forget weapons of mass destruction...those gays want to kiss? In public?

    All joking aside, this administration is more dangerous than I gave them credit for.

    by Terps Fan on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:18:31 AM PDT

    •  Be afraid, (4.00 / 6)

      They have tongues like eels and like the taste of a man's tonsils. (Lord Flashheart, Blackadder)

      When are you going to impeach them?  come on already!

      by ranz on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:38:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kudos (none / 1)

        High marks for the Blackadder,

        "So what you're telling me Percy is that something you've never seen before is only slightly less blue than something else you've never seen before......"

        God Is A Woman and She is Quite Black. -5.86, -5.77

        by daelin82 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:42:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "First they came for the Communists.." (none / 1)

      If we can't overwhelm these fascists next November at the polls, some of us are going to die as we overwhelm them in the streets.

      "McCain lies 50% of the time; I'm not exactly sure about what, since he's on both sides of every issue." -Texasblu

      by davidincleveland on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:48:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Problem: (3.88 / 9)

    The actual domestic terrorist threat is so minor that we have a HUGE "Homeland Security" apparatus with nothing to do but harass dissidents, progressives, peace groups.

    They have untold billions at their disposal to make sure true democracy never poses a threat to their order.

    The right is killing America

    by grushka on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:19:18 AM PDT

  •  Camps (4.00 / 5)

    don't seem far off.  And not necessarily because they're fascists, which they clearly are, or because they hate gays, which they clearly do, but because there's so much money to be made destroying wilderness and putting up barbed wire.

    I've got two Democrat senators I've already asked to look into impeachment, but I'm gonna start calling Republicans now.

    Alex
    Choose Our President 2008

    by ourprez08 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:19:18 AM PDT

    •  Well (4.00 / 5)

      I went and called Hastert and Blunt.  They asked for my name at Hastert's office after my comment that the president and vice president should be impeached, so I politely declined, stating that I would not like to be secretly investigated.

      Alex
      Choose Our President 2008

      by ourprez08 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:37:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They got your name when you called. (none / 1)

        They only asked you for it in the hope that you would refuse to give it. They will use such refusals at our trials, to sway the jury into believing that we are subversive maniacs "who dare not speak our names".

        "McCain lies 50% of the time; I'm not exactly sure about what, since he's on both sides of every issue." -Texasblu

        by davidincleveland on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:03:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  IS THIS FOR REAL?? (4.00 / 5)

    Are you fucking serious? This is what the bastards are doing? How long before the impeachment proceedings?

    by bushbehindbars on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:19:24 AM PDT

  •  People who want into the army? (4.00 / 6)

    By their name, these are people who support enlarging the pool of people wanting to serve in the armed forces.  One would think the Pentagon  would be sending recruiters rather than spies!!!

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

    by flo58 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:19:27 AM PDT

    •  Besides (4.00 / 3)

      if they're possibly violent wouldn't you WANT them in the military?

      Just think how proud you'll be to tell your kids how you voted this year.

      by DyspepTex on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:30:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Recruiters (4.00 / 2)

      are pissed off about this as they are desperate to make their quotas and they are getting a lot of pressure to do so. This is what I am hearing from a recruiter I know. They said they could care less about such things as being too selective during War times without a draft is idiocy.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:07:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wow! (4.00 / 4)

    Just...wow!

    Till what depths will BushCo go? It seems that 9/11 shredded the constitution and anointed George, the Ist.

    Wake me up when this is over.

    by araina on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:19:58 AM PDT

    •  Depths? This could be one of the (4.00 / 3)

      highlights of Gee Dubya's administration.  At least it didn't cost us hundreds of billions.

      What did he say the other night, something about spying on Americans to keep Americans safer?  It's just been dumb luck that we haven't been hit with another 9/11, and only a matter of time until we are.

      Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers

      by groggy on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:46:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they don't need to hit us (4.00 / 3)

        our enemies are just sitting back and watching dubya destroy us all by himself.
        we americans seem to be sitting and watching right along.

        we get the govt we make, each one of us. so if you dont like what you see - do something tanglible - posting here is not enough.

        a homemade IMPEACH sticker is a good place to start.

        2012: at least the LAST president will be a Democrat.

        by leftout on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:03:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I just can't imagine (4.00 / 3)

    the guy at the pentagon who thinks he's on a mission to weed out the "terrorists" and he gets assigned to this gig.  

    by LauraC on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:20:20 AM PDT

  •  We can joke (4.00 / 6)

    about how harmless the treehuggers, gays and vegans are, but truthfully, these groups are all quite threatening to the stereotypical American way of life.

    I, for one, can understand why they're spying on these groups.

    -- war-weary.

    by peacemonger on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:20:31 AM PDT

    •  your forgot (none / 0)

      those ultra-commie-wannabe's, the Catholic Workers.
      Please tell me you were snarking, ok???

      "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

      by valleycat on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:24:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No snark here. (4.00 / 2)

        George Bush's America is homophobic, and is beef and oil centric. Cowboys need their cows, and their steaks, and their big bad trucks, doncha know.

        -- war-weary.

        by peacemonger on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:38:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  perhaps most threatening of all (4.00 / 4)

        To a group of theocrats trying to convince the vast apolitical majority that progressivism is inherently anticlerical and atheistic, nothing is more threatening than leftist religious folks. It breaks the image that God is a right-winger.

        -8.00,-3.69

        by pHunbalanced on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes (none / 1)

          I agree.

          These right wingers are so busy fighting in a fake Christmas War but are in denial that there is a Real War going on for our liberty, our freedom, our privacy and the War in Iraq, the poverty in this country and a myriad of serious problems.

          These friends of my late mother continually send me these Forwards about the War in Christmas. So I responded quite courteously and respectfully.
          These friends of hers respect me a lot. But they must pay no attention to my response and continually send me these War on Christmas forwards.

          And the latest bunch of Christmas War propanganda is getting more threatening too.The latest ones say, " You will  NOT steal my Christmas!". It is ridiculous. I give up as some of these right wingers are deaf and do not get the point that I do not welcome these emails and if they a friends of the family, they should take a hint.

          I watched a program on the History Channel which completely debunks Christmas history according to the right wing. It was not considered a religious holiday till the late 19th century.

          Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

          by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:16:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, Christmas has been celebrated (none / 0)

            since at least the fourth centuryand became very popular during the middle ages.

            The developments leading to our current celebrations DID begin in the 19th century.  The Puritans in New England did not approve of Christmas, but the Anglicans in Virginia did.  The German custom of decorating trees (left over from pagan practices) became popular in England and the US after Queen Victoria and Prince Albert introduced them in England

            The Feast of the Incarnation (know as Christmas, literally Christ Mass) has been one of the principal holy days in the Christian year for many centuries.

            The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a man only tells them with all his might. - Mark Twain

            by mkfarkus on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:36:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I can understand it and it digusts me (none / 0)

      In my nightmare I see George the Dim trying to link Bin Laden...to ALF...to PETA...to ELF...to the Natural Resources Defense Council...to the Sierra Club.  There's no linkage, but that isn't going to stop the exploiters and polluters from trying.  

      I see George the Dim trying to "connect the dots" between ANSWER...Quakers...and anybody who disagrees with his War on Terror. And, I say HIS WAR on Terror because I've decided to stop calling it that.  As long as he can call it a WAR he can justify his "war powers" fraudulent presidency.  I haven't decided what I'm going to start calling it..but it isn't going to be "war on Terra."

      I see George the Dim trying to connect any group, no matter it's 25 degrees of separation, with someone somewhere who has a cousin's brother-in-law's aunt's next door neighbor's son-in-law's relative to any anti-Bush's Battle group.

      I see George the Dim on his knees at night (oh Where Is Monica when we need her!) praying to the Almighty J. Edgar for guidance about whom to intimidate to save us from the ghosts of the mid twentieth century who frightened all his Wall Street Friends so thoroughly that 50 years later they still want Info on the Commie Pinko Radical Fellow Travelers.

      I see a fraudulent president trapped in the past, too timid to defend civil liberties, too cowardly to admit mistakes, and so fearful of the 2006 elections that he'll do ANYTHING to stay in power.

      by greatbasin2 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:35:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  2 degrees of seperation (none / 0)

        Now you can be really afraid, because you've just responded to a comment (mine) from someone who is monitored, because I work here.
        NOTE TO ALL DKOSers any further conversations with me will get you a nice FBI file....
        I wish I were joking....

        "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

        by valleycat on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:55:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's ok (none / 1)

          I'm sure I have a file left over from anti-nuke stuff in the '50's, some Civil Rights connections in the '60's, some anti-war events in the '70's, some AIM and a little Iran-Contra mouthing off in the '80's.  What I really should try to do is to get the file so thick that it's gonna' take Georgie's Boys the rest of my natural life to compile all the details. In case they don't have enough I should invoke the name of the Prophet Blessed Be His Name in all future e-mails. That outta' do it.

          by greatbasin2 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:00:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Your link doesn't work. And my FBI file (none / 0)

          is 48 years long, quite thick, and very juicy. And believe me, I'm very proud of every inch of it.

          "McCain lies 50% of the time; I'm not exactly sure about what, since he's on both sides of every issue." -Texasblu

          by davidincleveland on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:16:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  sorry, link (none / 1)

            I work for the People's Weekly World, which is the descendant of the Daily Worker. Today we're distributing over 300 baskets of food to the local poor. That should keep the FBI busy....

            "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

            by valleycat on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:39:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  as a gay, treehugging vegan, (4.00 / 4)

      the funny thing is - if I didn't tell you I was all these, you may never know.

      I live in a very red town - a town where the people think gays are weird and vegans weirder.

      But when I meet my neighbors and make friends with them, they notice I'm no threat. They notice I make sense in my reasoning, I'm healthy, have a good relationship, am funny, kind, intelligent and pretty soon their fears and predijuces fade away.

      That is our best defense - make friends with those who fear you. Show them you are good, like they believe themselves to be.

      2012: at least the LAST president will be a Democrat.

      by leftout on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:08:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is what they fear the most (4.00 / 2)

        They fear that people will realize gays are not outlandish freaks. They want all of America to scapegoat us and spit on us and never respect us. They don't want that wall between us to ever break down, they get too much money and power from it.

        by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:16:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course! (none / 0)

          Notice how the drive to reverse the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruling mandating equal marriage rights ran out of steam, according to stories I've heard (mostly from the Al Franken Show). It would taken a constitutional amendment, which would have required passage by two different legislatures and a popular vote. The second legislative passage failed because lawmakers saw that the world didn't end when gay couples were given the right to marry.

          For whatever the opinion of a straight person may be worth on this matter, I happen to believe that most Americans are live and let live kind of people who are also, unfortunately, easily scared and easily led. So I think you're absolutely right: the more Americans see gays as people just like them--people who only want to be happy and make a life for themselves--the less the rabid right is able to scare and lead them. It takes one more weapon out of their arsenal.

          "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

          by AustinCynic on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:33:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not over yet in Massachusetts (none / 0)

            The anti-gay groups are now working on an amendment that would ban marriage and not provide for civil unions. They only need 50 legislators to pass this, it has to pass in 2006 and 2007 or 2008.

            If you can, or anyone can, please go to Massequality.

            by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:32:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  As with other pests (none / 0)

              ...bigots are hard to get rid of. Once you think you've got them all, a few more crawl out from under the rocks.

              "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

              by AustinCynic on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 02:59:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Can't hold onto power... (none / 0)

          ...to slay monsters if their aren't any.

          You should know that by now... monster.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Wanna win in '08...?

          Put your money where your mouth is.

          by Lestatdelc on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:30:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  There it is, the conspiracy laid bare... (4.00 / 4)

    If gay people get their way, they'll infiltrate the military, undermine morale, and lose the War on Terror.  They must be stopped!!

    by Vagabond57 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:21:06 AM PDT

  •  Keep pushing to the right, George.... (4.00 / 2)

    Keep on pushing.  The more you push, the more it is slapping average folks in the face about how radical you and the Republicans are.

    by Sam Loomis on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:21:23 AM PDT

  •  a gay kiss-in was labeled as a credible threat (4.00 / 2)

    Ban kissing now, so we can arrest these perverts!

    I was a Republican until they lost their minds, The word 'conservative' means 'discriminatory,' ... It's a form of political discrimination. --- Charles Barkley

    by Kimball Cross on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:22:42 AM PDT

  •  Enviros, nuns, peace protesters (4.00 / 2)

    why not gays? Just got to ask yourself, is there going to be an Aryan blood test?

    Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

    by high uintas on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:23:16 AM PDT

  •  this is crazy. (4.00 / 3)

    The William Paterson gay group are terrorists???  This is what the Pentagon is spending time and resources on?  Homophobia distracting this administation from really protecting us.  They are really making the Nixon administration seem level-headed and fair.

    Good.  This will help mobilize the gay community.  Most of my gay friends thus far have been like, "Who's spying on who?" the past few days,  not taking the time to learn.  This answers that question.

    Anger is an energy.

    by queerbklynboy on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:23:24 AM PDT

  •  The homersekshul agenda (4.00 / 5)

    Would you people relax. What possible dangers could there be in mixing religious fundamentalism with fascist tenden... oh, wait a minute...

    Hasn't the time come for the press to ask former Bush/Cheney staffer Mary Cheney how she feels about this? Or are they all afraid Big Mama Lynne (R-state of Denial and Repression) will come crashing through the windows with her army of flying monkeys

    by BlueinColorado on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:23:47 AM PDT

  •  Why is it that (4.00 / 5)

    those who only want to live their lives are the ones being investigated, while those who want to make everyone follow one way of life are allowed to continue to go unchecked?

    The enemy of our democracy is not from the outside, it resides within the actions of those who fear anything they deem "wrong."

    Quakers, gays and lesbians, peace activists, vegans, animal rights activists, these are the "threat" to our democracy?  The far right wacko's that blow up abortion clinics, that kill doctors, that seek to impose their will upon us all, they are "patriots?"

    Danger America, danger.

    AfterHoursStamper.blogspot.com

    by SanJoseLady on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:24:08 AM PDT

    •  Exactly (none / 1)

      Those who mind their own business and are peaceful, law abiding, good citizens are being harrassed. Whereas those who aim to force their opinions, beliefs and way of life upon others are applauded. This is not the America that I used to know.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:20:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the Amerika I used to know (none / 1)

        1940s, 50s, 60s

        WWII gave super powers to the military and executive branch, and they were exploited in the aftermath. That's why we wound up with the 1978 legislation on FISA, to curb the excesses. Back to the drawing board, or deja vu all over again. It's going to take an even tougher push back this time, because the legislative and judicial branches have been usurped to make it nearly impossible to fight back. Count your allies on one hand: Fitzgerald, Feingold, and a few others. They will need all the help they can get, and people like Specter will need lots of help in trying to stay objective.

        BTW, Wishingwell, no song parodies today?

        "That story is not worth the paper it's rotten on."--Dorothy Parker

        by martyc35 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:49:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh yeah (none / 0)

          didn't that Ike fella say a few things in warning about that?

          by southernblues on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 03:49:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not yet (none / 0)

          But I may think of some..LOL. It was a busy day and I was not creative...LOL..

          Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

          by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 03:52:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  From my childhood, during WWII: (none / 0)

            To the tune of "Comin' in on a Wing and Prayer:"

            Comin' in in your spring underwear,
            Comin in in your spring underwear,
            Though there's one button gone,
            You can still keep 'em on.

            Comin' in in your spring underwear!

            Why do little kids just love underwear jokes? I dunno, but they do. Is the tide turning? Last time I looked, we had the second Senate vote to block cloture in about a week. It's turning! Hang in there.

            "That story is not worth the paper it's rotten on."--Dorothy Parker

            by martyc35 on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 10:26:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The idea is that (4.00 / 3)

    these groups want the military to drop their anti-gay policies. That means in GOP-speak that they "hate the troops". Hate groups like Concerned Women for America have already called gays "domestic terrorists". The Pentagon knows that a lot of people have no problem with the idea of gays openly serving in the military, so that makes it even more of a threat to them.

    The media will probably play this up to try to justify the spying (because a lot of people think gays are crazy and will do anything) and to cause more people to oppose gays in the military. The media will do anything to try to make people hate gays.

    by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:25:00 AM PDT

  •  What About theKiss-in (4.00 / 5)

    W and Joe Lieberman had at the State of the Union address?

    Now THAT was a threat to our national security!

    by greenskeeper on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:25:07 AM PDT

  •  Smacks of BIG TIME insecurity to me (none / 0)

    Do you suppose that  Bush........is a Log Rolling Republican in hiding?

    Remember J Edgar?

    Someone should bug Laura's shrink...........oops, never mind.....

    The Perfect is the Enemy of the Better

    by dabize on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:26:05 AM PDT

  •  Fags dangerous? Well, we have turned cowboys gay (none / 1)

    It's entirely possible we'll turn the War Room into a Den of Iniquity. Oops, too late.

    Well, they could use some pointers on how to form the perfect daisy chain.

    I live in my own little world...but it's okay. They know me here.

    by John Campanelli on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:27:21 AM PDT

  •  Throw Them (none / 1)

    From a helicopter!

    I think that we are seeing why it is exactly that the Bush administration did not get FISA warrants for their surveillance program:

    They didn't want there to be a record of who they were spying on.

    Any guesses who it was?  MoveOn?  John Kerry?  The mind boggles.

    Welcome to the Great Foreclosure.

    by bink on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:27:25 AM PDT

  •  This is why his approval is up among conservatives (none / 0)

    The conservatives hate gays way more than they hate terrorists.  

    My take as a gay man: Anyone who supports this ought to be forcibly converted to homosexuality, if you get my drift.

    The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

    by DemDachshund on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:28:26 AM PDT

    •  I get your drift and find it very offensive. (none / 0)

      You are doing the wingnuts' work for them when you post such a suggestion.
      We gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgender humans have neither the need nor the desire to rape anyone into a false conversion.
      As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want [and ask sincerely for] my tongue, or other appendage, in your crotch or pits or mouth, you should definitely NOT receive it.
      REAL queers don't have time for the unwilling. Over the years, I've found out that being "out" to every stranger results in too many requests for trysts. One winds up having to reject persons, who are hurt and offended thereby.

      "McCain lies 50% of the time; I'm not exactly sure about what, since he's on both sides of every issue." -Texasblu

      by davidincleveland on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:48:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Uhh....... (4.00 / 2)

    Are we actually saying that the government is spying on people who want actually want to join the military and protect the country from terrorists... but happen to be gay?

    Oh. My. God.

    by Kagro X on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:28:30 AM PDT

  •  Bingo, Kos. The issue is trust (4.00 / 3)

    Can you think of an administration less deserving of being trusted with power than this one?

    I'm still scratching my head over the Capitol Hill Democrats who fell over themselves to pass the Patriot Act--a huge handover of power to the executive branch--and later meekly handed George W. Bush a blank check to wage war in Iraq. What were they thinking about?

    What keeps me up nights these days is the thought that we've reached a tipping point, and the whole system of checks and balances no longer works.

    I was in law school when we went through Watergate and impeachment, and remember it well. This is worse.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:30:23 AM PDT

  •  Anyone here ever read (none / 0)

    "Glamorama" by Bret Easton Ellis?

    by swinginvoter on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:31:03 AM PDT

  •  Dunno (none / 1)

    Feeling a little paranoid, this sort of sounds like a desperate leak intended to wierdly get Bush's fundamentalist base behind fascism.  I mean, they love the oppression of homosexuals.  

    by nomen on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:31:29 AM PDT

    •  Exactly right (none / 1)

      I have the same suspicion. They want the media to report that this spy plan is necessary because otherwise gays are going to destroy society and endanger the troops. They are assuming yet again that gay-bashing is enough to distract people from all other issues.

      by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:34:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And I don't even think this (none / 0)

      is limited to fundies. I think they assume that all Americans will support this spying if they think it's to demolish gays. Gays kissing = credible terrorist threat in their mind.

      by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:36:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you are right (none / 0)

        The homophobia is not just among the fundies.
        It is far more widespread and that is very sad.
        Some nonreligious people are very homophobic as well.

        Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

        by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:22:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  At least they are leaving bloggers alone (none / 0)

    * testing *; * testing *

    Well, maybe on second thought.

    by getagrip already on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:32:44 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for front-paging that. (none / 1)

    In a weird way, I feel honored that folks like me have made Bush's enemies list. :-)

    I'm also wondering if there was a Pentagon/NSA plant at our local Stonewall Democrats holiday party last night.. LOL

    Live in Pennsylvania? Tell the Legislature to keep discrimination out of the state constitution!
    www.capitalstonewall.org or www.center4civilrights.org

    by BenPA on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:33:52 AM PDT

    •  Pennsylvania (none / 1)

      Do you think the anti-gay benefits amendment will pass there this year?

      by JamesB3 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:38:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am worried (none / 1)

        Because our state legislature is very Republican even if we have a Democrat for Governor.

        Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

        by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:23:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gotta watch those Republicans (none / 0)

        Anything's possible -- so please ask your friends & family in PA to contact their state reps.

        Here's the text of our recent action alert:

        URGENT - Ask Your Legislator to Stop PA Constitutional Amendment

        Right-wing legislators in Harrisburg are working right now to round up support for a discriminatory amendment to the Pennsylvania Constitution that would deny legal protections to gay and lesbian families. The radical Pennsylvania Family Institute (pa4marriage.org) recently sent out a mass e-mail urging people to contact legislators in support of the "Marriage Protection Amendment." PFI said the amendment will be introduced in January and that it would ban civil unions as well as access to civil marriage.

        Based on the experience of other states (see below), it is likely the amendment would also block domestic-partner benefits, and it could block basic legal protections for same-sex families.

        The next few weeks are critical. Please contact your state representative and urge him or her NOT to co-sponsor the amendment and to oppose it if it comes up for a vote. And please ask your friends and family to contact their state representatives. You can find out who your state representative is by visiting www.legis.state.pa.us or in the blue pages of the phone book.

        IMPORTANT TIP: While this is certainly an emotional issue, please be respectful when you call, e-mail or write your state representative.

        Here are some key reasons to oppose the amendment:

        1. It's unnecessary and divisive. Pennsylvania already has a law that denies civil marriage for same-sex couples. As for claims that the marriage law is somehow under threat in Pennsylvania, the state Supreme Court recently ruled in the "Devlin" case that Philadelphia's domestic-partnership registry was only legal because it was something less than and distinct from civil marriage. Pushing this constitutional amendment only has one purpose -- exploiting fear of a minority for possible political gain.

        2. So-called "marriage protection amendments" affect all families, not just same-sex families. While supporters in other states have said these amendments are only about same-sex marriage, that is not true. In Ohio, courts have ruled that unmarried people, including unmarried heterosexual couples, may not seek protection from abuse orders in domestic violence cases. In Michigan, groups are challenging domestic partner benefits for employees. Virginia's recently enacted amendment is so broad that it may interfere with the rights of all Virginians to create wills, medical directives, powers of attorney, child custody and property arrangements, and even joint bank accounts.

        3. This unnecessary amendment will take time and energy away from important priorities such as property tax reform, raising the minimum wage, and improving the economy, education and health care in Pennsylvania -- things that help families.

        More information is available online at www.center4civilrights.org.

        by BenPA on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 03:56:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Pentagon/NSA plant (none / 1)

      I'm also wondering if there was a Pentagon/NSA plant at our local Stonewall Democrats holiday party last night.. LOL

      Well, you know, I kept hearing the poinsettia mumbling to itself, but I just thought I'd had too much punch to drink.

      "All progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

      by Bearpaw on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:58:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The guy arguing for the solomon amendment (none / 1)

    didn't get the memo.

    He said protests were a-ok, nay, encouraged, and that law schools themselves should distance themselves from Don't Ask Don't Tell by organizing such protests.

    That was during questioning by the Supreme Court.

    The mendacity of this administration knows no bounds.

    Support the troops (for real)! write to any soldier

    by sberel on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:36:17 AM PDT

  •  My Question for the President (none / 1)

    is if we will have presidential elections in 2008  or is he going to decide to install himself as president-for-life in the best interest of the country?

    Clearly he has that authority because, "we are at war."

    Is he going to appoint himself as the Supreme Lord of the Supreme Court in the best interest of the country while we are at war?

    Clearly, God selected Bush, and God can make no mistake, so Bush can make no mistake, anything he decides to do is correct and in the best interest of the country.  Given that, wouldn't it be more efficient to eliminate Congress and the Courts completely or should we keep some shell of them around for Bush's amusement?

    And, if I would be so bold, I would also ask what is the preferred forms of prayer and sacrifice to honor the mighty God Bush?

    Click for: The News

    by i dunno on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:37:09 AM PDT

    •  actually (none / 1)

      I think Bush will just find a way to appoint a Clone. Say the election is close again, we will have another 2000 rerun. He will want a clone of himself, perhaps another dumb good ol boy like himself, say a George Allen.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by wishingwell on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:24:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A burnt offering of bananas (none / 1)

      on the chimp altar.

      Or, burn any book. The Heavenly Chimp don't read 'em, so you don't need 'em.

      If I worry, will the future change?--Quai Chang Caine

      by Enjoy Every Sandwich on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:29:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  and Osama is getting away (none / 1)

    and carrying out and planning strikes while our taxes are used to pay for this crap.  It's disgusting in so many ways.

    West Michigan Rising the new blog for progressives to build our left coast -- now live

    by philgoblue on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:37:21 AM PDT

  •  YES (none / 0)

    BushAlmighty!

    by Krush on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:39:07 AM PDT

  •  hmmm (4.00 / 2)

    I don't know if this has been diaried or not.

    Here's a story of a gay soldier who was "outed" by a friend during a party with his fellow soliders.

    Link: http://www.azstarnet.com/...

    The soldier is currently sleeping on a cot in his drill sargeant's office, because he's already been beaten up by his comrades in arms.

    I think this highlights one of the serious problems with Don't Ask, Don't Tell... namely that the reprisals are all one sided.  If you "ask" you're not punished by a beating, but if you somehow "tell" then you get forced out (either by peer pressure/beating or by the army itself).

    That the government is spying on those opposed to don't ask, don't tell is truly disgusting.  The policy isn't working because it's one-sided.

    by lalo456987 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:40:11 AM PDT

    •  Ugh. (4.00 / 2)

      Nearly 10,000 gays and lesbians have been discharged under the rule that forces them into the closet.

      Everyone should remember this next time they bitch about not having enough troops.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:12:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Most especially... (none / 0)

        the ones who should remember this are the chickenhawk rethugs who decline to serve while gay and lesbian men and women are being hounded out of the services.

        I am proud of the all the folks who serve in uniform protecting me and my country.  But I am even more proud of those G/L folks who continue to serve despite having to keep their orientation secret or who are the targets of abuse from a small number of their fellow soldiers.

        by lalo456987 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 04:07:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Demand a response from your Republican Legislators (4.00 / 3)

    I have written to both of mine today and demanded the following:

    "If you feel that it is appropriate and correct for President Bush to use the authority in the Afghanistan resolution for the use of "force" to engage in spying on Americans within this country, please state unequivocally for the record that you would also grant this same power to President Gore and President Kerry."

    This is where the line must be drawn. If these people feel that it is ok to throw away 200 years of civil liberties just because they think that "9/11 changed everything" then they must be willing to put their money where their mouths are.

    I would in particular want to hear from someone in Philly who is willing to call and get it from Santorum.

    Idiots of the world, ignite!

    by susanp on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:40:22 AM PDT

  •  Osama who? (none / 0)

    How many terrorist plots do they expect to stop by chasing peaceniks and vegans?  Meanwhile Osama-ben-forgotten (remember 9-11?) is still roaming around?

    What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is. ~ Dan Quayle

    by CParis on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:41:08 AM PDT

  •  Ok, here goes (none / 1)

    This comment could just as easily go into almost any of the diaries on the reco list now.  It's been building up in me, but I just sit here shaking my head with my fingers hovering over the keyboard.

    I'm so glad all this is coming out and the NYT (despite unforgiveably sitting on the story for a year) had great timing in publishing it right before the Patriot Act vote.

    But I'm worried...

    The fact that this is all coming out right before the holidays is kind of like a Friday news dump on a meta scale.  In his news conference yesterday, Bush said that he wanted Alito confirmed by January 20.  I fear that after the holidays the news will shift to all-Allito-all-the-time.

    I am so concerned about that.

    It seems to me that the moment Dems allow the Alito confirmation process to begin, the battle will be lost.  Then the question will merely be: is he qualified or not--and the answer will have to be yes.  And from there we go to upperdownvote, upperdownvote....

    I hope I hope (though I know it's in vain) that the Dems will not even engage in the process. They now have good reason not to.  The could say that as long as there is a question of whether the President broke the law and defied the Constitution, they cannot consider his nomination to the country's highest court.  They could demand that an investigation take place first.  And they could insist on awaiting its outcome before proceeding on Alito.  In the meantime other shit (e.g. Rove indictment) will have time to hit the fan.

    I know this whole comment is somewhat off thread and I apologize.  But I can't stand the thought that we'll soon be moving from the kind of revelations on this site today to upperdown vote, upperdown vote.  I cannot stand the thought that that lawbreaking, Constitution-trashing, homophobic, dictatorial, pseudo-Christian, pseudo-Texan, pseudo-homo-sapien imbecile gets to put another person on the SCOTUS for life.

    I cannot stand it.  

    by katchen on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:41:20 AM PDT

    •  The News Cycle (4.00 / 2)

      This is a huge info dump just before the holidays, but my read on it is 180 degrees from yours.

      The Times, as much as I hate to admit this, has played the clock beautifully. All day, everyday, during the ten days before Christmas, rather than happynews about the election in Iraq, the print and broadcast news is now filled with terrifying evidence of illegality on the part of the Administration and the Republican controlled Congress.

      What comes next? A one-week news lull that is traditionally filled with Year-in-Review and The Year Ahead stories. Those stories are all being rewritten as we speak, and the narrative thread is not Administration success in Iraq, in the War on Terror, and in Congressional Gamesmanship.

      The narrative thread in the Year-in-Review stories is the spreading corruption scandal in Congress, unbridled illegal invasions of privacy in the name of the War on Terror, and the election of a Shi-ite dominated government friendly to Iran in Iraq.

      The narrative thread in the Year Ahead stories is the multiple threats to Republican dominance: vulnerability in the mid-term elections, the possibility of Congressional investigations between now and November and impeachment in January 07, the upcoming trials of AbramoffDeLayLibbyRove, the continuing failure of effective disaster response in the Gulf States, the effects of a lackluster Christmas retail season on job growth, and so forth.

      And then the heating bills and Christmas shopping bills come due, the taxes have to be paid (no movement on the AMT, so a lot more taxpayers have just crept up into that bracket), and gas prices could well spike again before the Summer vacation season.

      This is a disaster of the first order, because the whole Rovian strategy has been built around maintaining control of the news cycle. And the news cycle is now an anti-Bush snowball, growing exponentially.

      With the underlying glacier already fragile from the political equivalent global warming, expect further large chunks of ice to come loose and contribute to an even wider avalanche that will engulf not only Republicans, but those Democrats who eagerly went along with BushCheneyetal.

      Happy New Year!

      by greenskeeper on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:04:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "What comes next?" (none / 1)

        Hand in the air, jumping up and down,

        "I know, I know! An indictment!"

        Seriously, I was/am infuriated at the NYT, but that's nothing new. It was terrible timing, in that my big three in the media are gone for this week: Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, and Keith Olbermann. On the other hand, the election in Iraq is fraught with problems that will continue to unravel, so that's good. No victory there. Some legislators will continue to fight, and that's good. And Cheney had to leap out of his overseas trip to fly back in case there is a tie vote in the Senate--making his fake heart  beat fast is always worth watching. And there is still Fitz, patiently working, working, tightening, tightening. I can hardly wait for the New Year.

        Some people have been noticing how defensive Bush is and speculating that he's hiding something too big to hide. I am hoping that Fitz has already told him Rove will be charged. Could I hope for Cheney, too? Sure I can. It's a free country.

        "That story is not worth the paper it's rotten on."--Dorothy Parker

        by martyc35 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 12:17:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Can't wait for the arguments with media believers (none / 1)

    They'll say "they're only spying on terrorists, how can you not support that."  And I'll say

    "They're spying on gay student groups.  Look it up!  Apparently you think I should be spied on!"  (17 words)

    The holiday meals will be fun this year, that is if the family's biggest media believer, my bf's uncle, lets me get 17 words in edgewise before spouting more pundit talking points and claiming they are his own.  

    The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

    by DemDachshund on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:41:30 AM PDT

  •  Enjoy Fascism while you can (none / 1)

    ...or rid yourselves of the fascists. It's no longer time to politely demur. First they came for the gay kiss-in participants, and I said nothing because I wasn't gay/kissing. The they came for DailyKos, and I said nothing because they're all tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists anyway...

    Apologies. And sympathies. And just a smidgen of total outrage.

    -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:41:53 AM PDT

  •  America as a One-Party State (4.00 / 2)

    http://www.prospect.org/...

    Published in Jan 2004, but maybe more relevant today...

    Benjamin Franklin, leaving the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, was asked by a bystander what kind of government the Founders had bestowed. "A republic," he famously replied, "if you can keep it." There have been moments in American history when we kept our republic only by the slenderest of margins. This year is one of those times.

    Click for: The News

    by i dunno on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:42:03 AM PDT

  •  Violent homos. (4.00 / 2)

    They're everywhere.

    My business partner of 15 years is gay.  I can't tell you the number of times I've had to stop him from punching out an obnoxious client.

    I have to keep my own eyes peeled for his flying fists.

    Goddamned crazy homos.  I'm glad the government is keeping an eye on them.

    by Bob Johnson on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:42:40 AM PDT

  •  ughhh! (none / 1)

    Question: Mr Bush, what kind of government are you giving us?

    Answer: One that doesn't trust democracy, Madam, and I'm doing whatever I can to keep it.

    "Spying on the populace is a giant step toward totalitarianism." -- Bob Herbert

    by hws on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:43:21 AM PDT

  •  Dictator George Bush Not King George (none / 1)

    No more Mr. President.  He is now Dictator George Bush.

    He has made a public power grab and the only thing that will stop him and his junta is to impeach him.  ALL other non-essential business of the nation must stop until he has been removed from power.

    I am an Anti-Vietnam War Veteran.  I have a 1,260 FBI file compiled in my youth that I am VERY proud of.  If you don't think they will spy on you, you are mistaken.  Kos and the whole gang on this website are in their sites.

    Believe it!!!

    by NOBODY FROM NOWHERE on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:43:50 AM PDT

  •  How about this??? (none / 1)

    I am basically daring the Bush Administration to come after me --- a member of the LGBT community. I will serve as a political martyr for the Constitution and would endure a long prison sentence in defense of the Constitution. Let them come after me.

    by mph2005 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:44:32 AM PDT

  •  All LGBT folks need to buy guns now (none / 1)

    I'm tellin' ya .... all the LGBT folks need to start arming up because the Bushies are just dying to lynch 'em all.

    Jamie Whitaker Obama for President, 2008

    by zennedjim on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:44:48 AM PDT

  •  Just saw Brokeback Mtn. (4.00 / 2)

    Who needs camps?  Our society has a dangerous history of destroying gays and lesbians - or making them destroy themselves.  Let there be no mistake - there are many, many people in the Republican base who want a return to that.

    "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

    by fishhead on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:45:36 AM PDT

  •  Oh god! (none / 1)

    It's those queers over in Albany again!  They're trying to overthrow the gubment!  Go get em!

    /snark

    Really... just... unbelievable...

    Check out The Albany Project for the latest in NY state political news.

    by Team Slacker on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:46:39 AM PDT

  •  What a bunch of cowards... (none / 1)

    afraid of vegans... and gays?

    bush is pathetic.

    but what is this suppose to tell me?

    if bush is spending all this time/money on political surveillance... i take that to mean either 1 of 2 things:

    1. the terrorist threat isn't anything near as critical as bush keeps leading everyone to believe. if it was... he'd be much more focused on the real problem and not wasting our resources on this crap. and he's been using terrorism as a political tool to frighten american cowards into voting for him.

    2. or... terrorism IS critical... and bush is just ignoring it in order to spy on gays and vegans because he hates them. in this scenario, bush seems to (like 911) be anticipating letting a terrorist attack occur... probly because he could use it to further his march toward martial law and to scare more cowards into voting for hi