Daily Kos

Gay facts and fantasies in Propagannon research

Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 05:42:54 PM PDT

Lots of well-meaning Kos's are reluctant to explore the gay aspects of this story for fear that it unfairly targets people because of their sexuality and distracts from the "real" issues.

My hope here is to help narrow the discussion along lines of probability as narrowed by an experienced perspective

As a seasoned gay man of a certain age I'd like to examine some of the facts that have been unearthed and to infer these facts' larger meaning from the perspective of a gay "insider".  And I can tell you, from the amount of hand-wringing over the horror of leftie bloggers making a big deal over poor Jeff's former, and, overlapping career, that they are terrified that the extent of Bush's intimate Gay network will be exposed.

Given their monstruous treatment of our nation's Gays, they deserve it.  Having ridden to electoral victory by unleashing the worst homophobic bigotry we've seen in decades, it is fit and just that this maelstrom of hate turns against them.  (I'm sure they know the Bible quote?:  "He who sows the wind, reaps the whirlwind"?.  In an earthier version I've heard the same principal expressed as "He who stirs the shit, gets to eat it"

But the Gay network may also provide substantial clues as to the Dirty Tricks department of Team Bush. I think it likely there is huge overlap.

REPUBLICANS AND THEIR GAY UNDERWORLD

That many Gay Republicans should prefer the closety games of the 1950s over the open Gay culture that arose out of the post Stonewall era should come as no surprise.  They are reactionaries after all.  In fact, I know Gay men of a certain age and income who routinely excoriate "the fags" while nonetheless indulging appetites and behaviours that would leave Margaret Sperling's head spinning.  But since the lights are out in their orgy rooms, good Republicans are happy to just overlook and pretend not to see.  It is the public avowal of affection that makes them crazy over the gay marriage issue.  To compare Gay marriage to a perversion, as right next to bestiality is on the face of it insane.  Gay people seeking to have stable monogamous relationships accepted into their families and their communities are, in key respects, far more conservative and traditional than the many gays in the republican party who scuttle around in the shadows, procuring illicit sex and using sites like MilitaryEscortM4M.com.

I have been with my partner  25 years this summer and I personally am sick and tired of being told that my only option is to have a lavender marriage with an understanding lesbian or a loveless marriage with an unsuspecting woman while trolling public toilets and internet chat rooms on the side.  You tell me which of these is the more honorable?

GANNON, GAY PROSTITUTION AND THE WHITE HOUSE

While it might seem thrilling to imagine that Gannon found a sponsor through his website the chances of that are actually next to nil.  Far more likely is that he met his sponsor in a more refined setting.  In New York there is a piano bar on the East Side that fancies itself a bit of a British gentlemen's club.  The place is filled with older men of means and younger men on the make.  Prostitution is never mentioned.  For a young gay to quote an hourly rate would be a fatal error.  In this refined atmosphere we're not talking about by the hour rent-boys but long-term investments: what I've always called mortgage boys.

The young men on the make are not teenagers.  They are reasonably well educated and well groomed; in their late 20s, 30s, even 40s and are all hoping to find an older gentlemen who might "mentor" them.

The reason why $$$ is never discussed is because the true value of the John's fantasy is that this isn't just tawdry or naughty but that there is some sort of relationship developing.  Somewhere along the line there'll be college "fees", medical bills, a car, a cruise, a fortnight in Aspen or the Hamptons. Or, of course, a job.  You get the picture.

Anyway, if this was the ruse under which Gannon scored his Sugar Daddy, the Daddy may never have known about the websites and the hooking.  Gannon might (as the phantasy required) have similarly fed him a long story.  Didn't Gannon once say he had been living off "savings" - That sounds like a perfectly good way to disguise an illicit cash flow and may well have been the perfect line to feed his sugar daddy.  It helped create the impression that Gannon really is one of the boys, one of the club.  Well bred, wants to write, has savings or a trust fund.  Sound political views. Bingo.  

If Gannon really was working the circuit I'm sure he sought to hide his side-line in the Flesh trade and that, in that scenario, his "mentor" may not have known.  My short hand reading says - possibly Eberle told Rove or McClellan that Gannon was cool and -wosh - he's in.   Everyone knows that these types of events have a front stage and a backstage - we should see if a Jeff Gannon or a JD Gurket is signed in anywhere else in the White House or the Eisenhower Building (Isn't that what the Old Executive Offices are now called? I haven't been to DC in decades)

Once it all seems doable and Gannon seems to be fitting in, OR because the Press Room needs this added layer of subterfuge, Talon News is born.

BOB EBERLE, PAUL DICKERSON  and GOPUSA

When NBC ran an item on Gannon the other evening they cut in a snip of stock footage of Bob Eberle talking about his political action group, GOPUSA.  While I know that Bob Eberle is married (who isn't wink-wink) I couldn't help but hear my gaydar ring a bit when I saw him.

Interestingly it has since been reported that Texas Republicans are distancing themselves from Eberle with almost universal declarations that no one knew him.  This, in itself, suggests they know something about the relationship between Eberle and Gannon and are running scared from it. (http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/2005/02/texas-republican-party-denies-knowing.html)

There is a photo of born-again Bobby
on a recent GOPUSA posting - March 24, 2004 (http://www.gopusa.com/company/welcome_moa.shtml

Bob Eberle writes:

"Thanks also goes out to Paul Dickerson, Charlie Weldon, and Terri Hillhouse of the GOPUSA team for their valuable insights".

This, largely overlooked, diary from FOYA (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/18/224553/157) noted that while the last two names are formerly affiliated with GOPUSA) that Dickerson was a mystery and so a long list of URLS referring to Dickerson where cited.  Some of them were interesting to me in ways that FOYA might not have gleaned.  

The list shows that Dickerson was a Bush Ranger in 2004, raising over 200k for the re-election campaign.  Two of them are largely gossip items placing Dickerson in the center of prominent Texas Republicans. One introduces Dickerson at a Houston fundraiser for Bush and notes how he brought a "client" with him - I quote:

(Sorry, I don't know how to box it so I'll set it off another way)

**************

Paul Dickerson is an example. Only 33, Dickerson is a Houston lawyer and he is not well known. But he is highly valuable to the Bush campaign, one of 187 "Rangers" who have each raised at least $200,000. He is one of many fresh faces behind Mr. Bush's financial operation, which has minted scores of new fund-raisers and molded them into the most effective money machine in presidential campaign history.

At Bush's fund-raising visit to Houston on March 10, for example, Dickerson, brought Michael Ames, an investment banker he hopes to entice to do business with his law firm.

"I ask clients to come along, instead of bringing some sweet young thing," he said. "As a young associate, I want to make a partner." Ames, who gushed about the high-powered event at the Hilton Americas, said he wanted to work with Dickerson, who clearly scored points at the reception.

Dickerson told reporters that he can enhance his career by mixing colleagues and would-be clients with his campaign connections, even though he insisted, "that wasn't my motivation getting started." Ironically, Dickerson said he has yet to offer up his own money to the campaign, but his willingness to put in hundreds of hours and thousands of phone calls transformed him over the last year into a six-figure fund-raiser, one of the most valuable commodities in politics.

*****************

There's a lot of interest in that seemingly innocuous bit of filler.  The "only" 33 Dickerson is clearly unmarried as the only option to bringing a "client" he cites is "bringing some sweet young thing" (he doesn't say "my wife", does he?)

In fact, the whole thing sounds like a boilerplate closet-case cover and I suspect the reorter was tipping her hand by telling us that his "client", Michael Ames "gushed" - a long time euphemism for an effeminate man.  (Her use of the word "entice" to describe Dickerson's ambitions towards Ames is also telling)  (Actually these four paragraphs are telling in a lot of ways - but not for today)

AND WAIT - when we look at another one of the links so thoughtfully dug out by FOYA we find this - another social column - this time in the Houston Chronicle -
 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/features/shodge/2933125

covering a huge White House Party for about 700 Texas loyalists.  Here we find Dickerson (of the old Bush family linked law office of Haynes and Boone) partnered, again,  with another man, one Rex Lamb.  A quick google search shows us that Rex is president of the Houston Young Republicans.  While it may only be a coincidence that their names are fused together, I suspect that Dickerson's companion would have been mentioned - had he had one other than Mr Lamb, and that the same would apply for Rex Lamb.  In short, columns of this type are usually very keen to get the pairings right and to not give offense by naming only one half of a couple.  On top of that, the etiquette of naming gay couples is usually discret enough so that it could be read as just happenstance.  It could, of course, just be happenstance but the very ambiguity of it is telling.

So, what can we infer from this?  Let's add one other factoid about Dickerson touched on in the item quoted above - He's a new face, someone who, like Bob Eberle himself appears to have played a much lower key role in the party prior to 2000.

My inference?  Well, I think we've touched on a Hot Potato issue, that, in fact, Gannon's indiscretion is running the risk of exposing the entire Velvet Mafia of Texas that rallied behind Bush's election strategy.  As a "new" member of the Bush team wouldn't it be logical to think that he'd been brought on board by campaign manager, Ken Mehlman?

So, in essence, far from having knowingly sponsored a rent boy, I think they've all been taken for a loop - winking eyes through short-hand conversations and just assumed that Gannon's bona fides were in order. As of today, the whole chain of command is  terrified that this thing might spin out of their control

GOPUSA AS ROVIAN FRONT GROUP

What is interesting in tracing the origins of GOPUSA is that Bobby Eberle appears to equivocate about when his organization actually began.  Although he most often cites 9-11 as a key to the inspiration to go big time, other reports suggest that GOPUSA was, in fact, founded, in Texas, in 1999.  The lead here suggests a strong possibility that Rove needed a "front" group to act as a propaganda arm of the campaign and that the far better connected (though even more dubious financially)   Bruce Eberle agreed to help create GOPUSA for his (brother? Cousin? Nephew? - has anyone solved this yet?) Bobby to oversee, or front for.

Is the confusion because GOPUSA was actually created before Bob Eberle had anything much to do with it?  That he, too, had been brought on board?

That GOPUSA and TALON news were not just some simple little advocacy group seems highlighted by their role in the South Dakota campaign, of which we already know quite a lot and has been well-documented by SusanG and others.

In summary for today, my hypothesis is that under the able scrutiny of Karl Rove, members of Texas's closety gay underground were brought in to similarly create a dirty tricks arm of the campaign.   Most members of GOPUSA probably had no know idea that any of this was happening.  That was desirable.  The secret leveraged world of  gays and espionage neatly overlap.  Indeed, gays and networks of gays have long been a staple in the clandestine world for those very reasons.

While it is possible that Gannon's cover may have been deeper, that, indeed, the whole MilitaryStudM4M.com was itself a black op entrapment scam should not be discounted, I think it unlikely that they would have allowed Gannon to cross over.  On the contrary, I suspect that they are all flabberghasted and blaming Bobby for having ever brought Gannon in on the scheme.

My estimation is that a network of Texas Gays have been instrumental in Bush's rise to power and that a few of them just got very sloppy in a way that risks outing all of them.  That's the reason why there's been this whole attempt to frame the issue as being about Gannon's personal life - they know perfectly well it's their OWN personal lives that that they're trying to protect.

Again, it's NOT GANNON'S PERSONAL LIFE - IT"S THEIR OWN.

Blackmail is a subtle art and is often used by those nearest to us.  I'm not talking about "emotional" blackmail in the pop psychology sense but something more nuanced.  In a secretive culture, like the gay underworld - that I wish could finally disappear altogether - blackmail isn't as crass as open exhortion, the threats are often unspoken.  In fact, pressure can be applied in even apparently friendly ways as lovers, ex-lovers, or friends yield simply to accommodate and protect everyone.

  Three days ago I spoke with a contemporary of mine, who'd been a regular at CBGB's and places like the 9th Circle who had become a staunch Republican.  Although he lives in DC we met in one of the old 70s landmarks we'd each known 30 years ago as he was visiting New York for a few days.  (He was keen to tell me about the Constitution Ball he attended this year.) When I asked him just what all this was about, all these secret gays - the whole pack of them - he gave me one of those looks that says "Girl, this says it all" and said, in a whispered tone, "Karl Rove."

He refused to elaborate. As he was off-the-record I'll keep his name off the main dairy for the moment until I speak with him again.  I don't think he's near as well connected as he'd like to be but I take it - on face value - as a fair estimate of the gossip current in DC `s gay watering holes.

Given the astonishing number of alleged CLOSETED gays in key White House/RNC positions and  in their MEDIA outlets it really baffles me how they get away with the amount of malicious and damaging gay baiting they do.

On a closing note, I think that until we find where the money for all these shenanigans came from (and GANNON/TALON seems the first to possibly derive from laundered money or slush funds. - (IMPORTANT POINT!!!)  The others -Williams, Gallagher et alia - were all receiving merely misappropriated funds! LOL

My suggestion, if we're looking for slush funds, is go for  the off shore ENRON accounts?  Get every lunch receipt, every bus ticket, every memo  available to the public domain.  I'm sure you'll find BILLIONS of dollars were being siphoned off into secret slush fund accounts that are occasionally kicking back into TEAM BUSH operations.  This could well be one of them.

A good job would be to see what links any of these B-list characters from Texas have with Enron and might have been privy, even signatories, to those mysterious off shore accounts  - Bob Eberle, Paul Dickerson,  Ken Mehlman, Dan Gurlie, Jay Banning, Scott McClellan, Karl Rove, Rick Perry, George W Bush.....it might just lead somewhere.

REMEMBER In all likelihood the first few times Gannon was in the Press Room (which does have a separate entrance, doesn't it?) he was already in the White House.  Has anyone the know-how to access sign-in sheets at the Building's various entrances?  

I hope I haven't gone on too long.  I just felt that the amount of speculation about the gay side of the story was going too far from what the reality might truly be.  I merely wished to lend my own perspective on the speculation and attempt to focus it all in a more forensic manner.

I think the issues are important.  The gay angle is but one of several that need to be unearthed.

Believe me, at some point there will be considerable overlap and, possibly, immolation.

Thanks for taking the time to read my contribution and a quick thanks to Susan G and the other many excellent researchers here at Kos.  I hope my two cents adds something to the discussion.

Tags: Porter Goss, hookergate, prostitution, Brent Wilkes (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 340 comments

  •  thank you (none / 0)

    for taking the time to write this. It's well worth the read.
    •  Yes (none / 1)

      This actually makes sense to me.  Thank you, Padraig, for this contribution.  I'm not sure who else around here would have the experience, the perspective and the skill to put it all together and lay it all out for us like this.

      What a strange world we live in.

      Welcome to the Great Foreclosure.

      by bink on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 05:28:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow (none / 0)

        Check out this article from The Guardian:

        "At high school in Utah, Rove was known as a nerd and a motor-mouth, unpopular but irrepressibly opinionated. While his peers were fixated on girls he became obsessed with school politics, campaigning for student positions in a precocious jacket and tie. Although his parents were apolitical, he was a vocal Nixon supporter from the age of nine."

        http://whopundit.blogspot.com
        independent politics, independent music and two unemployed dudes.

        by whopundit on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 06:12:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  press still ignoring the basic question (none / 1)

      who approved Gannon's press pass..

      It is not believable that the secret service couldn't do a google search on JD guckert and find he own's gay porn websites,
      owed taxes, etc..

      it is just no believable that the white house was not tipped off on his background..

      nor is it believable for someone who posts naked pictures of themselves on the internet to claim privacy invasions.

      •  Clearances, approvals and press passes (none / 1)

        The question is, I think, a little deeper than just "who".  First, does Gannon already have a clearance?  I have no idea one way or the other, but given his military background, it's quite possible.

        If so, what was his level of clearance?  Confidential? Secret?  Top Scret?  Top Secret SCI with a compartmentalization level?  Contrary to popular belief, securing a Secret or Top Secret clearance isn't the arduous process you would imagine.  They check into your background: finances and criminal history.  A compartmentalized clearance or higher is the one that requires a lifestyle polygraph.  All clearances typically entail some kind of background check (interview of neighbors, colleagues, etc.) which vary in intensity by level of clearance applied for.

        IF he already had a military clearance that he had maintained, it could have seriously expedited the process of clearing him into the White House press room.

        So that begs the question: are press passes, both hard and day, expedited for a current clearance-holder?  Bear in mind also that different agencies have different clearing bureaucracies - a CIA clearance won't get you into the secured areas of the FBI and an FBI clearance doesn't transfer to NSA... blah blah.  White House clearances are similar - he may have already had one.

        I think the question that should be asked before "who" is "why won't you even explain the process"?

        •  Oops - and I forgot to mention (none / 0)

          that having been a gay male prostitute or a drug abuser or an adulterer doesn't necessarily prevent you from getting even the higher level clearances.  The issue is, after all, if you have access to any kind of sensitive information, that you cannot be blackmailed into providing that information to an unauthorized person or persons.  Therefore, if you are up-front about your lifestyle (I'm gay but no one knows; I was a gay prostitute but I have stopped those activities; I am having three separate affairs; etc. and so forth) then presumably you can't be blackmailed as you are not hiding anything from the security authority.  In fact, you are more likely to come to them if you are approached to seek their help in continuing to keep your secret.

          NO ONE would have a clearance if these allowances weren't made.

      •  And the FBI in the Plame matter, (none / 0)

        they must have known too.
    •  Here is Dickerson's law firm (none / 1)

      bio.

      Being a Bush pioneer apparently doesn't hurt from a board appointment perspective.

    •  there are knowledgeable people (none / 1)


      People who can speak up and confirm the extent to which this all is the case.

      David Brock comes to mind.  I'm sure he hasn't lost complete track of the game.  Why not ask him to what extent and how Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, and The Texas Connection mesh?  He does hint in "Blinded By The Right" that a lot of the radical Right conspiracy against the public interest consists of closeted immoralist Fifties sorts- but so carefully and vaguely that you can't get a sense of whether that's a 10% phenomenon or an 85% phenomenon.  I'm not up on the politics or ethics of outing people in political life, but we probably deserve some better answers at this point.  Btw, Karen Hughes has always struck me as intensely butch.

      The more I go over the high and mid level Republican operative list- ubiquitous gaydar lightup Ralph Reed is who annoys me most- the more I wonder at the intense idiocy and lack of conscience of the Republican Party loyalist crowd to allow themselves to be led by this lot.

      Renewal. Not mere reforms. We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by killjoy on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 12:22:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bush's taped conversations (4.00 / 2)

    Check out the NYT's story about the taped conversations with Dubya and his early reluctance to bash gays. That would certainly fit with the premise of this diary.

    Thank you for posting this!

    •  maybe the mead tape, rather than intended (none / 0)

      to divert the press and fundi's is intended
      to assure all the gay-repubs that bushco will not abandon them if they are outted and therefore they should not spill the beans on bushco
  •  Thank you (none / 0)

    Excellent analysis and commentary!
  •  Extraordinary Diary. (4.00 / 5)

    As a gay man who was raised in Orange County, surrounded by repugnuts, this is so familiar. I know closet cases who worship Reagan, and still, to this day, insist Nixon was unfairly hounded from office.

    I think this diary really helps to widen the view of this shadow world that "Jeff Gannon" seemingly crosses over into. Clearly, there is more here than what we see on the surface. And a lot of the speculation I hear about where he fits in all this doesn't quite ring true.

    There are so many details in this wretched saga that have set my gaydar off (like my first glimpse of JimmyJeff).

    I remain in awe of the unbelievable amount of effort that has led to the results thus far, both by the Kossacks and other bloggers. Thanks for taking the time to record your ideas and experience. I think you have identified many worthwhile directions for more investigation.

    Well Dayum! The Fat Lady just sang her tits right off!

    by homogenius on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 06:01:20 PM PDT

    •  Nixon and closeted cases (4.00 / 76)

      For what it's worth (and should interest build) I'd be keen to write the whole history of the GOP (GAY OLD PARTY)

      There is strong evidence to suggest that Nixon himself had deep homosexual issues.....maybe next week....

      Thanks again

      "the fools, the fools, they've left us our Fenian Dead" (Padraig Pearse - Gay Revolutionary)

      by padraig pearse on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 06:26:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And you should! (none / 1)

        I think you should write a column about these "clubs" where the young and aspiring go to meet there mentors. Everything could take off from their.

        Gosh, its almost a movie script.

        •  Finding the Patron is Key (4.00 / 6)

          I was caught by this quote from your diary:
          Far more likely is that he met his sponsor in a more refined setting.
           Although I'm no expert on the gay scene, I've lived both in NYC and DC long enough to know that cultivating sexual relationships -- both heterosexual and homosexual -- is all part of the pandering and power-hungy manipulation that goes with both politics and big money capitalism.

          That's why I've been trying to frame this in terms of finding Guckert's Patron, because I think you are right that any gay relationship involved probably didn't stem directly from the escort sites, but that Guckert met someone sometime over the 2002 holiday season (between November 2002 and January 2003) who became the sponsor -- the Patron who greased the skids for Guckert's gig in the gaggle.  Currently there is incredible speculation as to whom this might be, but we need to be clear that -- so far -- we don't know.  

          But FINDING the Patron is the key.

          Fuzzy only works for pets.

          by NotFuzzy on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 11:03:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the question still floating out there (none / 0)

            is how did Jim/Jeff get into the White House Christmas parties before "talon" was invented. Perhaps this is where the Patron comes in--who got him in?

            Comforting the Afflicted and Afflicting the Comfortable Whenever Possible

            by RevDeb on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:23:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  For What it's worth (4.00 / 2)

        My mother attended a wedding, where Richard Nixon and Bebe Rebozo were present as well.

        Nixon was very drunk, and my mother believed that Nixon was a little bit "handsy" with Bebe.

        She is very gay positive. Her gaydar just went off with Nixon's behavior, even/or because he was under the influence at the time.

        Completely waste your time at NewPairODimes Now with baby pictures.

        by trifecta on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:15:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  NIXON and REBOZO (4.00 / 4)

          That would be a part of my next diary.  They were definitely up to something more than just mob investments in Batista's Cuba - although, definitely they were up to that, too

          "the fools, the fools, they've left us our Fenian Dead" (Padraig Pearse - Gay Revolutionary)

          by padraig pearse on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:34:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  amazing post, padraig (none / 1)

        but aren't there some well-healed DEMS who will pay my "college fees"? Where's the NYC piano bar for that?

        "Where did it all go wrong? There ought to be a law against Henry./ -Mr. Bones: there is." - John Berryman

        by watt on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:25:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It all makes sense for the first time (4.00 / 6)

        Your diary pulls together so many pieces; NOW the whole sordid tale begins to make sense.

        Excellent work. Highly recommend.

        **This deserves the front page, guys.**

        "The first duty of government is to protect the powerless against the powerful."
        Code of Hammurabi, 1700 B.C.
        www.caringbridge.org/visit/brittany

        by CodeTalker on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:34:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please do! (none / 1)

        That would be a fascinating read, and would help many of us develop some insight into the sexual politics and behaviors of those individuals.  I would look forward to your diaries!
      •  The other Williams - Pete Williams (4.00 / 2)

        He's an NBC reporter now but remember when he first began getting a lot of attention, as Cheney's spokesperson during the first Gulf War?  There were a lot of profile-type articles about him, including women he dated, blah blah blah.  It all got too much for some of the gay people who actually knew the man and he was outed for his hypocrisy as the spokesperson for an organization (the Pentagon) that dismisses people for simply being gay.

         http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/outings-media.html

      •  Speaking as one who knows people on the yournger (4.00 / 2)

        side of the gay and Republican side who are looking for their "mentors" I can tell you that it would be an eye openner to many straight liberals to read about gay men of the conservative bent.
      •  And to think we all scoffed (4.00 / 2)

        When they said they were the "party of Lincoln."
      •  What is your evidence? (none / 1)

        Years ago I briefly met Nixon (before he was President) and I suppose the deal is that people who are closeted, hide it well. Yet...I don't know...

        Do you have any data on why someone might think he was gay? I would like to read it.

    •  I'm not the 'tin hat' type, but be careful (4.00 / 5)

      After reading your diary, it reminded me pretty quickly who the last guy was that managed to have an investigation veer into the right wing closeted gay community.

      Jim Garrison.

      I'm not remotely suggesting anyone Garrison investigated was innocent or guilty of anything. I'm not going near that. However, they most certainly did destroy the reputation of Jim Garrison. These guys have been keeping secrets their whole lives. I imagine they've gotten pretty good at it. Be cautious.

      •  I was thinking the same thing... (4.00 / 3)

        New Orleans, Texas and the CIA, military industrial complex, KBR... hunt oil, who backed Nixon's return form political exile to run in 69.. the southern strategy....

        down that rabbit hole goes everything... ONI, kicking Saddam back into Iraq after the first failed Ba'athist coup attempt he led in 55...  installing the Shah in Iran, IBEX, IT&T, Rockwell... the fall of the Shah, the Iraq/Iran war back-burn... the escalation of Jihad and the mujahedeen via BCCI, Iran/Contra which again ties back to anti-communist proxy wars and the drug cartels...

        you could do laps and laps on how that can all tie and feeds back and grows.

      •  er, actually Jim Garrison wasn't destroyed.... (none / 0)

        Important to remember that despite all the attempts to smear Garrison that he remained DA until 1973 and that he rose to become a judge on Louisiana Appeals Circuit Court until his death.

        "the fools, the fools, they've left us our Fenian Dead" (Padraig Pearse - Gay Revolutionary)

        by padraig pearse on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 10:19:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, it was the JFK things that hurt him... (none / 0)

          He lost re-election as DA to Connick (Harry Connick's father) not over the JFK situation but over corruption involving (I think) his office's investiagtion of illegal gambling.  His office appeared to have real corruption in it.  And Connick was to Garrison's left (Garrison had a long standing practice of conducting investigations by blackmailing closeted gay men, long before the JFK trial).

          If it had been a rightwing vendata against him, he would never have been elected an appeal

    •  Maybe you could explain Gaydar (none / 1)

      I thought I had no gaydar until I met my wife.  She couldn't tell whether a man was gay based on anything.  Voice, mannerisms, interests...nothing buzzed her senses.

      I can detect mannerisms, sometimes the voice, a lot of times it is dress and interests.

      But if none of that does the trick, I won't know a man is gay until he tells me.

      So how to Gay men detect other Gay men, when I can't?

      •  Hard to explain really (none / 1)

        but it is much easier to be pretty sure a guy is gay, than be sure a guy definately is not. In other words "gaydar", to the extent it works, tells you if someone is gay, not if they are not. There are always gay guys that seem totally straight, but I guess it can be mannerisms, interests, certain habits that are rare among straight guys (but not explicitly gay), and sometimes the way guys look at things they he talks about. Sometimes you can't say for sure, but sometimes it's just like "come on, who are you kidding.
        •  I think I am hampered by not really caring (none / 1)

          If I ever spent one second of time trying to figure out if a stranger was gay or not, I'd probably be much better at it.
          •  well good point but you asked lol (none / 0)

            but I think it is a waste of time if you really care about it, sometimes you can't help but notice.
            •  No, it was a good response (4.00 / 2)

              I just kind of threw up my hands.  I guess I expected to be told the secret.  

              For that matter, any guys understand what is going on in women's minds, let me know.

              •  Sorry, Boo. (4.00 / 7)

                It's part of our bylaws--you see, all gay men really do know what's going on in women's minds. But if we tell a hetero guy we get penalized and demoted to repugnut closet case and all our merit badges for taste, style and irony, and our Judy Garland good conduct ribbon are revoked. The divestiture ceremony is just too devastating to recount.

                Well Dayum! The Fat Lady just sang her tits right off!

                by homogenius on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 11:04:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's comedy (none / 0)

                  it's unfair...but as long as you bring the music...
                  •  RE: Gaydar (4.00 / 2)

                    I have it. I'm straight, but I have always been attracted to gay men on a friendship level. I just know when I meet one. It's all about the eyes. This has always led me to believe that gays are born gay. It's a physical trait. I see it in both male and female homosexuals.

                    I see it in Bobby Eberle, Melman, Stone, Gannon- its a look.

                    This diary is super by the way. But the part that is most disturbing is the back-stabbing part of the gay under-world. The power plays, competition, but then I say..boys will be boys..across the board.

                    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

                    by roseeriter on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 01:04:32 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Exactly so - the eyes (none / 1)

                      When I was first coming out (and I grew up in Penntucky with no exposure to gay culture) I would walk around the Phila gayborhood and often the person I was walking with would say "oh, that guy's gay....him too....etc."  And I'd ask "how can you tell?".  And I was told "look at the eyes...the eyes give away everything."  I wish I could be more specific, but eyes can be revealing.
      •  not just a handy tool, but a survival skill! (none / 1)

        So how to Gay men detect other Gay men, when I can't?

        When you're gay, you tend to develop skills for detecting other gay individuals -- movements, gestures, language, etc. -- to find allies in a potentially hostile environment. One of its many uses is telling you whom you can hit on, and who will beat you bloody if you attempt to do so; another is so you can find someone to sit and get depressingly drunk with at a wedding (I've done this one). My experience is that straight people with gaydar tend to be observant people on the whole, while gay people with gaydar tend to have real-world experience detecting others like them (whether for companionship or just for feeling like you're not alone). You just learn how to recognise your own kind, is all.

        However, among my generation I've noticed that it's kind of evolving out. I'm a 23-year-old bisexual woman (Kinsey 4), and I probably couldn't tell you someone's sexuality at a glance if my life depended on it. On the other hand, since I moved out of Texas to go to college about the same time I came out, I've never really had to be in a place where a wink-wink-nudge-nudge conveyed more information than the rainbow necklace I wear. Same goes for a lot of my other queer friends -- if we want to pick up somebody in a bar, we don't go to the effort of giving off and looking for complex signals, we go to a gay bar (or a straight one where no one will respond to a same-sex come-on with brutal violence).

        Of course, this didn't stop me and my seminarian friends from frowning for clues when a very cute candidate for a professorship came the other day: 'Do you think he's gay?' 'He uses an awful lot of product.' 'No, look at the wedding band.' 'So? Dr. [gay professor] wears one.' 'Yeah, but this guy's is too boring to be a same-sex wedding band.' '...Yeah, okay.'

        Sometimes the need to mess with their heads outweighs the millstone of humiliation. --Fox Mulder -5.63, -6.97

        by lady sisyphus on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 05:19:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  i had an anthropology teacher (none / 1)

        who explained to class that if you chose ten people out of any given population who you guessed were gay, 7 out 10 times you'd probably be right. same goes for picking 10 straight people.

        in retrospect, clearly his formula was a little simple-minded. my feeling as a straight person with quite a few gay friends is that life experience has a big effect on your ability to predict who is or isn't gay. i think life experience also has a big effect on whether or not you will admit to yourself that you're gay.

        it's funny, when i attend gay events or bars, i always leave thinking, EVERYONE is gay godammit!

        but cheez, wouldn't it be cool if we lived in a world where who a person was sleeping with mattered about as much as what their favorite kind of food was???

        •  Actually (none / 1)

          Their favorite food is more important to me then who they like to sleep with. This is because it's much easier to tell if someone's gay then if they're vegetarian. And since it's more likely that I will cook for them than sleep with them, this is a more important question. ;-)

          Plane Crazy
          Who loves to cook, likes antiques, loves MGM musicals, knows that windows have treatments, but, unfortunately, doesn't use any "products". Gayar says, "Straight!"  Hobbies and interests don't always tell you. :-)

          Dance like it hurts, love like you need money, work when people are watching. - Dogbert

          by PlaneCrazy on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 06:04:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  haha very funny plane (none / 1)

            then there's me:

            i like to oogle pretty women in magazines, i love watching baseball and basketball(and have even had a fantasy b-ball team) whose players i also like to drool over, i hate to make plans or committments and i can't stand to cook. you might guess that i'm a man, baby, but i'm not!

            so i agree, hobbies and interests do not always tell you!

            •  Me and my husband . . . (none / 1)

              . . . always have a good laugh over the fact that I am the one who drinks beer, cooks barbeque and uses power tools, while he bakes bread and hates sports.

              On the other hand, he's hairstyle-impaired and I like musicals, so we haven't completely swapped roles.

              What would Gandhi do? "The cause of liberty becomes a mockery if the price to be paid is the wholesale destruction of those who are to enjoy liberty."

              by Robespierrette on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 11:46:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Anybody know anything about this... (none / 1)

    http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/02/021405whaide.htm
    ...story about a "gay" connection between press aide McClellan and Gannon?

    Republican't Leadership is a dangerous combination of cut-backs and incompetence.

    by casamurphy on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 06:03:19 PM PDT

    •  Straight and bi men go to gay bars (none / 1)


      Unless they find a former or current boyfriend who will go on the record, all it is is speculation.
      •  It's not speculation (4.00 / 2)

        if someone states he saw Scottie in a gay bar.

        Middle-aged Republicans, by the way, do not go to gay bars all the time. It's one thing for the young, the hip, the urbane to do this--or for people to accompany their friends--but quite another for the most frequently visible member of the Bush White House. It isn't "Real World."

      •  Straight men who are White House Press Secretary? (4.00 / 2)

        Would someone in Scotty's position be caught dead in a gay bar, if he were straight?  Even if gay, in closeted DC circles, it's a big risk.  But for the official mouthpiece for the Homophobe-in-Chief to show up there is risking a huge scandal with the wingnuts.  

        If Scotty's going to gay bars, it's not for fashion tips.  We can be sure of that.

        Hanoi didn't break John McCain, but Washington did.

        by Dallasdoc on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 09:44:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not politics (none / 1)

          but religion -- is everyone not familiar with the John Paulk debacle? So many parallels: high-profile sensitive position quite specifically involved with an anti-gay program -- yet he knew perfectly well where he was.

          Some of these guys need, on some level, to get "caught." Pathetic, really.

      •  That's like saying (none / 1)

        no White House intern would ever conduct an affair with the POTUS and then kiss and tell. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. To my point of view, raising suspicions in people's minds, particularly right wing minds, is just as damaging as an actual person coming forward and claiming "Bush blew me at a truck stop while Rove fisted him using a can of STP." Alright perhaps not quite as damaging, but you get my point.
    •  Second Rumor (none / 1)

      I'd be careful of this because there is a side story to this that makes me suspicious.

      Some of you know the rumor that Rick Perry was caught by his wife with the former Texas Secretary of State.  There was a follow-up rumor that in fact Kay Bailey Hutchinson spread the rumor because she plans to challenge Perry for governor.  Perry is now considered a deadman walking, so Hutchinson's primary opposition will likely be McClellan's mom and Texas Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn.  I'm not saying this isn't real, but I wouldn't be shocked if this was Hutchinson's doing.

  •  Thank you........ (none / 0)

    For the valuable insight. I'm afraid that some folks don't realize how extensive the gay underground actually is.
  •  Fantastic . . . (4.00 / 2)

    So inciteful, clever, and fun.  Your best line is of course:

    That's the reason why there's been this whole attempt to frame the issue as being about Gannon's personal life - they know perfectly well it's their OWN personal lives that that they're trying to protect.

    You brought of Rick Perry, and I should just remind everyone of the not yet smothered Texas controversy when the secret no one dares to speak about him reared its head last year, see Burnt Orange Report for the back story.

    I think you hit the clubbiness of the politcal "in-crowd" dead on, and it applies to straits as well as gays.  There is always the formal security clearance, and then there are the back doors for friends of the family.

  •  Ken Lay and Texas gays (4.00 / 3)

    By what magical powers has Ken Lay managed to stay out of jail? One theory is that Mr. Lay holds embarrassing information about the private lives of important public figures, including Karl Rove and George Bush.

    As the flames of the Gannon/Guckert scandal lick all around the closeted Republican gays of Texas, it would be worthwhile to check for Enron ties and to perhaps determine why this wrecker and looter of a huge corporation is still walking the streets of Houston.

    We are producing an increasing number of useful goods and services for increasingly useless people. -- Ivan Illich

    by ANKOSS on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 06:47:41 PM PDT

  •  Well Written (none / 1)

    Thanks for a very thoughtful diary.  The unchecked homophobia of the Bush era has to be fueled by significant repression.  The diary makes a lot of sense in highlighting what is really stake for the right in the Gannon story.  All of the hypocrisy might come tumbling down.
  •  Closeted gays and Gannon [sic] (4.00 / 6)

    Where, though, does this fellow get into this crowd in the first place?  He attended West Chester State University, which is in Chester County, Pa.  Southeastern Chester County and Northwestern New Castle County, Delaware, are of a piece.  The area is loaded with lots of very quiet money on very large tracts of land.  I've visited a few of those homes back in the day.  Some of them are on 200+ acres with a fairly modest (but very solid) home that is tasteful and understated.  Who there introduced this fellow to the Texas/Washington crowd?
    Gannon was one of those who admired Reagan.  It's not his politics, though, it's his access.  How does a reasonably intelligent (but vastly unsophisticated) young guy get into that crowd?  I would think the access preceded the web sites.  He's been in that area for 25 years now.  Who were his early sponsors who got him started on this path?
    Is there a way to find out?  I cannot think of a connection between Wilmington (actually Centreville) and Austin.
    •  GANNONs MISSING YEARS (4.00 / 2)

      That raises an important gap.  We still don't know any of it....

      Well, i'll shut up until this diary has been absorbed - but I hope you'll return or check out my next diary........

      We have a few leads....

      All roads lead back to Austin....

      "the fools, the fools, they've left us our Fenian Dead" (Padraig Pearse - Gay Revolutionary)

      by padraig pearse on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:05:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Missing years (none / 1)

        As near as I can tell, the time of his graduation from college in 1980 until he shows near 2000 is largely unaccounted for.
        •  just a hunch... (4.00 / 3)

          anyone checked any porn films?
        •  from what i've heard... (none / 1)

          you can pull up voting records in lexus/nexus (although i've never used it). perhaps we can track his whereabouts at different time periods through his voting records (i mean, really... do you think he's miss an opportunity to vote??) then, once we find where he is, we can track down what he was doing.

          sorry if it doesn't work this way... i really have no experience with any of this, but i just want to HELP this noble cause.

          •  eh? (none / 1)

            voter registration is public information in some states, but you can't access it through lexis/nexis.  [if i'm wrong somebody please post on here how to do so, that would be great for tracing people.]

            www.beyondmarriage.org

            by decafdyke on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 11:45:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually (none / 1)

              LexisNexis does have a database to search voting registrations.

              James D. Guckert registerd to vote as a Republican in Delaware, using his 5721 KENNETT PIKE address, in January of 1988.

              lib-er-al: Open to new ideas for progress; tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not limited to or by established, orthodox or authoritarian attitudes.

              by DCescapee on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 04:41:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  And here we are in Austin . . . (4.00 / 4)

        Wondering which of our gay friends might be able to help us research these questions?

        Q: What would Nancy Drew do?
        A: She'd say, "This is a job for my friend George."

        "No president who performs his duties faithfully and conscientiously can have any leisure." James K. Polk

        by Sandia Blanca on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 08:14:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nancy Drew's friend George (none / 1)

          For those who are Nancy illiterate, George was a boy, something of a tomboy.  (Ned Nickerson was the hapless boyfriend.)
          Incidentally, if you liked Nancy, you should also read the Dana Girls by the same author.
          •  Hey (none / 1)

            I thought I was the only one in the world who had read Dana girls!

            ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

            by bibble on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 08:59:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dana girls (none / 1)

              My mother (born 1925) had all those books.  I went through her boxes of books when I was a kid and ran out of other things to read.  I loved mysteries of a certain type.
              It also helped me to learn what a roadster was.  Nancy had one.
              The worst I ever found in her collection was one of the original books out of a movie.  It was entitled "Deanna Curbin and the Feather of Flame".  It was just awful.
              On the other hand, for you trivia buffs and given the number of "gay" posts, Deanna Durbin did a short called something like "Sunday Bandstand" in which she did a duet with young Frances Gumm.  It was Frances's screen test and they sang, literally, on a bandstand with a Sunday concert 1930's type band behind them.
              Frances then changed her name to Judy Garland.
              (Sorry, but all this gay talk made this impossible to resist.)
              •  I read all the Nancy Drew Books (none / 1)

                over and over, but I only had 2 Dana girls books that I remember.  I read them over and over too.  Do you think we're all just frustrated Nancy Drews and Dana Girls, given our investigative bent(s)?  I too learned what a roadster was because of reading Nancy Drew mysteries, and that knowledge has been invaluable in my daily life.

                ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

                by bibble on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 10:51:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Durbin/Gumm (none / 0)

                . . . if you really want to see that duet but can't find
                the short, it's excerpted in "That's Entertainment" (the
                movie that was on MGM musicals), or "That's Entertainment,
                vol. 2".

                I found that particular duet to be wonderful; I only wish
                I had such a flexible and accurate singing voice.

                (Well, okay, so my mind's full of trivia. . . )

                Alban

                •  Hi, Alban! (none / 0)

                  I think I have seen every Deanna Durbin movie.

                  RTE, the Irish television network, did a "Deanna Durbin Festival" back in the 70s, showing every one of her films they could get their hands on, one every weekend. Sadly, though her singing was lovely, the films were pretty forgettable. . .

                  What would Gandhi do? "The cause of liberty becomes a mockery if the price to be paid is the wholesale destruction of those who are to enjoy liberty."

                  by Robespierrette on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 11:55:56 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Deanna Durbin (none / 0)

                    Yeah, well, if her films had been memorable, she would
                    have achieved the fame and fortune of Francis Gumm,
                    right?

                    . . . <sigh> If only talent was transferable: not every
                    great singer can act, not every nobel laureate can
                    do great art, nor can every great politician think. . .

                    Alban (pessimist? me? can't be!)

          •  George was a girl. (none / 1)

            Slim and dark haired she was invariably referred to as "boyish George".
            "Titian haired" Nancy's other friend was the blond "plump Beth (Bess?)".

            The Next Agenda "For Progressive Canadian Politics"

            by Bionic on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 08:59:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  the author (none / 0)

            Just FYI, since some people don't know -- the "author" of the Nancy Drew books was (and still is) a pen name. They were all ghost-written by various people.

            • Carolyn Keene "bio" - listing people who wrote under the name
            • Salon interview with the first ghost-writer for Nancy Drew, Mildred A. Wirt Benson, who has now passed away.
            • This page says that Leslie McFarlane (a Hardy Boys writer) was the first ghost-writer for the Dana Girls, and was then succeeded by Harriet Adams.

            The world won't get no better if we just let it be.

            by drewthaler on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 01:20:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Once he's in, he's in (none / 1)

      at a certain level. It's not like the networks of Republicans that met at Princeton or pledged Skull & Bones; not everyone summered together as children. If he's a loyal Republican first, gay second, he can be passed around quite a big circle.
    •  They all met at the 2000 RNC (4.00 / 8)

      It was held in Philadelphia, Bobby Eberle was a delegate,  all the big GOP players were there, and an ambitious, not-so-youg-anymore gay hooker living (possibly) in Delaware went fishing for a sugar daddy. He'd gone to college near Philly, so no problem finding the right venues.

      Another interesting tie to the 2000 RNC? Nick Berg was there as well, and he spent some time working for a company in Texas before going to Iraq. It's been remarked before how eerie it is that Berg was from West Chester, where G/G went to college, and that G/G interviewed Aziz Al-Taee (also from Philly), who was supposedly Berg's business partner in Iraq. See all the interesting ties here
      http://2lucky.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/16/235859/836

      Note to NSA: You can have my Constitution when you pry it from my cold dead hands. Nyah Nyah Nyah

      by smith on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:29:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wow... (none / 1)

        the lightbulb just went off in my head. this makes total sense! good call.
      •  Nick Berg..... (4.00 / 6)

        Good citation - Though I think the Gannon-Berg link has been disproven (it was largely based on a tendatious enrollment at Penn Univeristy)

        Nick Berg is well worth exploring further.

        I always thought the hot ticket was that he had been called to work at  Abu Ghraib and that evrything went out of control after that.

        Nick Berg is worth exploring above and beyond Gannon - and w/o seeking a link between them

        "the fools, the fools, they've left us our Fenian Dead" (Padraig Pearse - Gay Revolutionary)

        by padraig pearse on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 07:40:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think his college (none / 1)

          Turned out to be West Chester State, near Philadelphia, and he's been pretty solidly linked to a fraternity there. That's still a tenuous link to Berg, who was 20 years younger, so could not have been a schoolmate. The tie-in, if in fact there is one, could actually be Philly, not West Chester.

          Note to NSA: You can have my Constitution when you pry it from my cold dead hands. Nyah Nyah Nyah

          by smith on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 08:13:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  connections (none / 1)

            I found some other folks (duPont's) who have similar mail drop addresses in Wilmington's far reaches.  I got a satellite photo of the area and there is not enough there for the number of addresses listed in the searches.  Wonder if this means anything.
          •  "Bill Jarrell... (4.00 / 3)

            ...who runs a firm called Washington Strategies, gives money to Bush, and had been a top aide to Tom DeLay." That description is from the story given by Alex Polier to New York Magazine. Polier is the intern who was fingered, by her "friend" whom she declines to name as having had an affair with John Kerry. The friend worked in Bill Jarrell's office.

            Here is a squib from Jarrell's bio on the Washington Strategies web page:

            Jarrell is a native of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and graduate of The Pennsylvania State University. He continues to serve as an active alumnus, recently giving the commencement speech at the Penn State Delaware County campus in Media, Pennsylvania.

            Jarrell became a member of a PSU "Senior Hat Society" known as, of all things, Skull and Bones, in 1985. (Do a search on "jarrell" to get to some intriguing scuttlebutt here.) That is probably the year he graduated, but I can't document it.

            Several circumstances seem worthy of attention here. You're looking for a Philly-area connection to Texas. Gannon's alma mater of West Chester State is only a few miles west of that Delaware County campus of PSU where Jarrell "recently" gave a commencement speech, and both are only a few miles north of Centreville, DE. Jarrell was indeed a "top aide" to Tom Delay - he was a deputy chief of staff.

            The story about John Kerry's "intern affair" appears to have originated in Jarrell's office. That is one of the stories that Gannon gave life to. (Sorry, I haven't researched whether he "scooped" it or not.) If you read Alex Polier's story, it appears that she was on pretty familiar terms with Jarrell - probably through her "friend," at any rate.

            I've been trying to call attention to these dots in comments on several diaries that have scrolled away - I hope this one will survive long enough for someone to try their hand at connecting them. These include links to Delay, Enron, and Bruce Eberle that are but one or two degrees of separation from Gannon and the story out of Jarrell's office. So near yet so far.

      •  Bobby Eberle's account of (none / 1)

        of the "late start" of GOPUSA 1999 to really do a whole lot in 2000 to recruit and support candidates in Texas, he mentions that after the 2000 election, that was when GOPUSA "reorganized" and became the internet noise-machine pipeline it evolved into, Talon, etc.

        Interesting.

      •  Makes sense to me and your thought on the (4.00 / 3)

        GOP Philly convention 2000 ties in beautifully with yesterday's thread at Plame & PropaG: Gannon was GOPUSA Officer/Director and the G/G timeline posted by xegn regarding "bulldogphilly."

        It's no mystery to me that there would be a "nest of homosexuals" in this White House. Repressed homosexuality and ultra-conservative Christiandom, IMHO, fit together like a hand in glove. Throw in the ingredient of phony bravado and Texas testosterone, then stir and bake.

        I have to laugh when I recall G. Gordon Liddy's salivating over GW's "package" when he landed on the Mission Accomplished carrier.

        And let's recall the story of the Florida wing of The Christian Coalition, the Lava Lounge and John Dowless.

        "Nest" indeed. BTW that phrase came from the Washington Times article covering the Craig Spence affair in 1983.

        "The more things change, the more they stay the same" about sums up our current situation here.

    •  Scary Steve has an excellent avenue (4.00 / 3)

      of speculation.  A perusal of the students in Jim/ Jeff's college yearbook by someone who knows that crowd may find a blinking, neon sign.  Any of his fellow TKE boys perhaps?  While not definitive, if there justhappens to be a well connected scion in that college class, we would have a fresh alley to sniff.

      www.dailykos.com is America's Blog of Record

      by WI Deadhead on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 08:17:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Could it have been through his (none / 1)

      military service, in the Marines? Does anyone have any idea where he did his training?

      This seems to be a possibility, considering his focusing on gay military men as clients, and selling himself as a Marine or ex-Marine (complete with dogtags and "Bulldog" nickname).

      I keep going back to the 1989 Spence call boy scandal. There was a lot of gay military client activity during those years. Maybe he was "recruited" back then, and met one of the Texas natives that way?

      Or maybe he started frequenting certain VA and DC (and by extension, TX) circles out of pure ambition, to get ahead in any way possible.

      Secondly, I'd still like to be able to look into the real activity of Bedrock Corp. If he used Bedrock checks to pay for his escort sites, and the invoices were sent to Bedrock, then Bedrock's income might have been through those sites, just camoflaged as other kinds of services.

      Third, do you all remember the picture of Guckert at the "Beef & Beer" frat reunion? Someone already mentioned this in another thread, but I'll bring it up again here. Take a look at the guy just opposite Guckert at the bar, holding the red glass. Doesn't he look a lot like Bobby Eberle? Could Guckert have taken him along to the party? (I think it was ca. 2001-2002.) Maybe not, but just thinking...

      Sorry, I just noticed the tkema frat site links aren't working anymore -- they've scrubbed too? Does anyone have a working link to somewhere else where we have this pic?

      "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by im