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Raw Story reports that Jim VandeHei of the Washington Post will report tomorrow that Government official testified that Rove stressed 'political importance' of countering CIA officer's husband.

A former government official claims to have testified to the grand jury investigating the leaking of a CIA officer's identity that Karl Rove harped about the "political importance" of countering her husband to colleagues at the White House, according to a front page story set for Monday's Washington Post, RAW STORY has found. Excerpts from the article written by Jim VandeHei:

"Additionally, one former government official said he testified that Rove talked with White House colleagues about the political importance of defending the pre-war intelligence and countering Plame's husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. It was Wilson who publicly accused Bush of twisting intelligence about Iraq's efforts to obtain nuclear material from Africa. The official refused to be named out of fear of angering Fitzgerald and the White House."

Rove Intimately Involved In WMD Fight Against Wilson Hear Grand Jury

One former aide, who would discuss internal White House discussion only if his name was not used, said Rove was intimately involved in the WMD fight and discussed various components of the plan at senior staff meetings and one-on-one strategy conversations.

The aide said Rove's message was that ``if there are no WMDs and some blame us, it will not be a pleasant election year.'' The aide said Rove talked a lot about Wilson that week, but mostly about the fact he was a Democrat and needed to be rebutted.

Luskin, Rove's attorney, said Rove's focus was not on Wilson

This doesn't look good for Karl Rove.  Grand Jury to this affect contradicts Rove's earlier reported testimony. And provides additional clues that the Grand Jury has been focusing on the question of whether to hand up indictments of Karl Rove for perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false states as has been widely reported.

I'm hoping for a grand jury decision on this next week or two. Perhaps, as soon as tomorrow. But Eveleyn Pringle has reported that Fitzgerald's office stated a few weeks back it would give the press 24 hours advanced notice of an announcement press conference. And I presume we will here reports of such a press conference immediately, even if it is supposed to be "blacked out." So it may be too late to expect an announcement for tomorrow.

But, I have to admit, it doesn't make sense to me that if the Grand Jury were to hand down an indictment, that Fitzgerald couldn't march right up to the camera and say so. Maybe some of you lawyers can clarfy this for us. Why would indictments be secret anyway? Oh yeah, so the prosecutor can arrest the criminals. Ha, keep your TVs tuned to CNN tomorrow so you don't miss the long awaited frog march. Can't you just see Karl being draffed out be marshals out kicking and screaming. "Take your hands off me you dirty cops." And spitting at the press. "You liberal media scum make me sick. I'm gonna get you all. You all can rot in pergatory!."

And then Tom Delay drive up with a black van, and Rove makes a run for it. And theres a big shoot out in front of the White House, where President Bush comes out and reiterates his support for Karl Rove. You're doing a heck of a job Karly!" And I reiterate that I will not have anyone working in the White who still remanins convicted or not pardoned after every appeal has been exhausted. Apparently, the Prosecutors have made the case and they are discussing it.  A majority vote it required for an indictment.  And from what I've seen, the evidence looks compelling.  

Originally posted to HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:06 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Excuse my vulgarity (31+ / 0-)

    but I hope the fucker (Rove) goes down!  

    "The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country..." - Thomas Paine

    by elveta on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:07:36 PM PDT

  •  Where is... (10+ / 0-)

    EZWriter when we need him?!?

    Four hundred years ago, we were all illegal aliens according to the Comanche.

    by DC Pol Sci on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:08:48 PM PDT

  •  Nice bit you've dug up here. (4+ / 0-)

    Thanks for sharing it.  Please keep us informed.

    Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
      Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
    Tempest even in reason's seat.

    by GreyHawk on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:09:36 PM PDT

  •  What? (0+ / 0-)

    We're still speculating about rove?

    But Jason Leopold said he received a target letter.

    He was 100% certain.

    Larisa from Raw Story had a huge temper tantrum when people were demanding some answers for Leopold's assertion that only he reported.

    Larisa and Will Pitt from Truthout said any one doubting Jason was going to owe him a big fat apology.

    These click for cash sites that pretend to be progressive are getting on my nerves.

  •  HoundDog, have you seen this article (25+ / 0-)

    by Murray Waas? He talks about Rove's obsession in summer 2003 with the unraveling of the WMD claims.

    Inconvenient News Doing my part to afflict the comfortable.

    by smintheus on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:12:26 PM PDT

  •  Rove's 'fair game' (45+ / 0-)

    comment about Plame demonstrated that he viewed this issue strictly through the political lens.  

    That's what Rove does: he smears people for political wins.  He has been doing this for years, and he assumed that he'd get away with it again.

    The bottom line is this: this administration has gotten away with so many things (I shudder to think of the things we don't know about yet) so why not this?  The thing is: they didn't count on Fitzgerald.

    It's payback time.  Rove, meet Karma.  Karma, Rove.  

  •  What a perfect graduation present... (18+ / 0-)

    I hope it comes on the very day.  I honestly don't know what I would rather have in my hands -- my J.D. or a copy of the paperwith "Rove Indicted" stretched across the entire front page.

    Quo usque tandem abutere, George W., patientia nostra?

    by Mr Futomaki on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:13:25 PM PDT

  •  Leopold had another story on it today (8+ / 0-)

    In truthout

    Month is not right at the story

    http://www.truthout.org/...

    First paragraph

    Hundreds of pages of emails and memos "discovered" by the White House in February and turned over to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald show that Karl Rove played a much larger role in the Valerie Plame Wilson leak case than he had previously disclosed to a grand jury and FBI investigators.

    Similar to what WaPo is reporting

    'Events are in the saddle and ride mankind.' Emerson

    by deepsouthdoug on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:15:15 PM PDT

    •  too similar maybe? (0+ / 0-)

      Leopold has had problems stealing "'graphs" in the past.

      Also had problems making up sources.

      Salon fired him.
      Dowjones fired him.

      Now Raw and TruthOut scream and yell at anyone that questions his veracity.

      •  This was out b4 the WaPo story (5+ / 0-)

        I read it late afternoon.  So if the implication was did he lift from WaPo - I don't think so.  

        'Events are in the saddle and ride mankind.' Emerson

        by deepsouthdoug on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:53:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  we've got to be careful about this guy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AnonymousArmy

        I've been following some links discussing Jason Leopold's career, and some of it isn't pretty (Salon evidently fired him for making stuff up).  He is currently writing stuff that many of us would like to believe, but he's had a troubled past, including grand theft (and this is all in his autobiography).

        I'd prefer to have at least one other source besides Mr. Leopold before I believe anything.  Maybe he's rehabilitated himself, or maybe he's still doing the approval-suck addict thing and giving progressive media the scoops they want to get, whether he really has the goods or not.

        •  The article linked to is NOT by (8+ / 0-)

          Jason Leopold, it's from the Washington Post.

        •  yea here is a bit from salon (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slouise217, souldrift

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/...

          But when we contacted Dow Jones to verify the story, they informed us that they had no record of it in their database. Leopold told us that he believed Dow Jones had "deleted 420 of my stories" from its archive. We pressed Dow Jones for a formal statement and this is what they wrote us: "Articles published by Dow Jones Newswires are included in a database available through Factiva. There has been no purging, let alone a wholesale purging, of articles from that database, whether written by Mr. Leopold or any other Dow Jones reporter. In short, no one at Dow Jones can find a copy of the article you have sent to us that is described as having been published on Dow Jones Newswires on January 15; no one at Dow Jones has any recollection of ever working on or reading that article before it was sent to us by Salon."

          At this point and throughout the remainder of this process, reaching Leopold became more difficult. We felt these issues were matters of considerable urgency, and at least two Salon editors were spending the bulk of their time on this problem, but Leopold would disappear for a day or two or fail to respond to us.

      •  People can and do change... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Torquemadog
    •  Thanks. deepsouthdoug, can't wait to read it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, boofdah

      I was about to give you the woof woof "who let the dawgs out."  But then when I reread you name I realize doug is not southern for dawg.

      Is it?  My relations hark back to Alabama and the Florida panhandle.  (Before all the yankees came down for retirement.)

      So maybe doug is just how ya'll over in Mississipi say dawg?  If good to see another southern dawg here to help "hound" these wayward Republicans into the lock up where they belong.

      Aaawhhoooo!! (My best spelling of howling to the moon.)

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:10:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You know, Wilson did not actually 'publicly (17+ / 0-)

    accuse Bush of twisting intelligence about Iraq's efforts to obtain nuclear material from Africa." His op-ed was much more tactful and careful than that. Reporters have always used extreme language in describing the wording of the op-ed.

    Of course, these days Joe Wilson speaks refreshingly bluntly about the Bush administration.

    •  Even more so (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, lecsmith, boofdah

      as time goes by. He used to be, well, diplomatic, even in his dispute with the administration over the Niger business. Now he's pretty forceful -- all across the board. I wonder what's happened (outside of the nefarious acts of Bushco).

      We are not going to let you have a war against Iran. - Juan Cole

      by Caneel on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:54:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it intensified when he heard from Tweety (9+ / 0-)

        that his wife had been characterized by Mr. X as "fair game." That was a significant turning point. And he might know more than he is saying. I am still wondering if they went after Plame and her unit because of what she was finding out Iran, Iraq, and WMD --like who was really supplying them to whom, who was moving them around, and who was paying them to do it. I think their reaction to a column in the New York Times is so intense that you can tell Wilson was getting near to something they were worried about.

        Were they just worried about being found out on the phony uranium claims? I think that is just the tip of the iceberg.

        •  Some have claimed here that the firm Valerie was (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caneel, lecsmith

          under cover with, (I think it was Brewster-Jennings) had intercepted evidence that indicated that operatives possibly related to the administration were trying to smuggle WMDs into to Iraq to bolster the charges made by Bush.

          I do not know enough facts to know if this has any legitimacy at all, so I probably shouldn't even repeat it.

          But I invite anyone who knows more about this angle to reexplain it too us.  Some real intersting stories with a far amount of documentation have been submitted by commenters in the Plamegate diaries.

          It would be the first time "incredible stories" need to float around for a long time before being picked up by the MSM.

          Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

          by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:20:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think I've seen any reputable reporting (5+ / 0-)

            about Brewster-Jennings, other than that it was a CIA front company.

            The reporting I've seen has come from Wayne Madsen, who I consider joke territory on reporting.  

            Further, I don't think the CIA would ever acknowledge, in any way, what purpose Brewster served.  Talk about your revealing sources and methods.

            •  Madsen and (0+ / 0-)

              the English language jihadis are about the only sources that will print that Brewster-Jennings (via Plame) was brought down because B-J intercepted WMD being shipped into Iraq for discovery by Judith Wilson when she was embedded with our troops.

              The jihadis have been correct about Wilson in the past - they thought she was a shill for the Bush folk way back before the war was started.  

              On the other hand, (steppes onto tinfoil turf) the jihadis thought she was involved with the Moslem charities, particularly the mosque in Brooklyn, getting money to Iraq for ??? and tipping the mosque off when there was going to be a raid. As far as I know none of this has been proven. You can read Judge Sweet's opinion here.

              Maybe the whole thing is total tinfoil, maybe it is the smoking gun. I dunno.

              What the President says is executive privilege is nothing but executive poppycock. -Sam Ervin

              by sailmaker on Mon May 08, 2006 at 10:10:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I'd like to know (4+ / 0-)

          the real damage caused to the work Plame was doing when she was outed.  There have been hints that it was big, and there have been hints that we know very little about the state of Iranian affairs.  The question is:  can this lack of intelligence be traced back to the leak?  That's the juicy part, and we'll probably never know because they've destroyed the data or made it TOP SECRET/NEVER TO BE DECLASSIFIED.

          •  Risen in 'State of War' (0+ / 0-)

            says that all CIA agents in Iran were 'accidentally' outed in 2004. Page 193.

            Chalabi let Iran know that we had cracked their security encription, so we have not been especially lucky or secure on the Iranian front.

            What the President says is executive privilege is nothing but executive poppycock. -Sam Ervin

            by sailmaker on Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:24:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, I like your byline. (0+ / 0-)
    •  Wilson was smeared not just by the White House (10+ / 0-)

      but also by the Senate committee who first investigated it.  And just recently by scuzeball Senator Kyl (AZ) who repeated anti-Wilson slurs which have been discredited long ago.

      The more information that comes out, the better and more corageous Wilson looks.

      I am hoping he and his wife Valerie will file a civil suit before November and 2008 so that getting more of the truth out to the public will do some good.  

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:14:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The civil lawsuit (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, mayan, Torquemadog

        will follow Valerie Plame's very readable book. I'm pleased about her $2.5 million advance.

        Though I bet we'll see fireworks from this case in the coming months, because Rove ultimately isn't Fitz's target (criminal responsibility ultimately appears to lie with the President) getting Rove in a "Libby trap" might be the best Fitz can do for now, at least until Bush can no longer pardon anyone. The way Bush has bought time, I'm afraid much justice will have to wait until after 2008.

        "[I]n all due respect to your profession [journalism], you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." - George W. Bush on October 7, 2003

        by QuickSilver on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:59:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  good point--CNN interview in March also key (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, peraspera, Torquemadog

      Wilson was on CNN March 8th I think it was, this was when ElBaradei had denounced Niger claims as a forgery.  Wilson said something to effect of "people in this administration knew/know better".  Wilson's book says that the decision to go after him was made in Cheney's office, with the usual suspects, after comments like these.

      •  links (7+ / 0-)

        From WaPo 6 July '03

        After IAEA Director Mohamed ElBaradei announced they were bogus, Wilson read a March 8 front-page story in The Washington Post that quoted an unidentified U.S. official as saying, "We fell for it."

        The quote provided "a wake-up call . . . that somebody was not being candid about this Niger business," he said. Interviewed that day on CNN, Wilson said: "I think it's safe to say that the U.S. government should have or did know that this report was a fake before Dr. ElBaradei mentioned it in his report at the U.N. yesterday."

        And from Wilson on May 2, 2004

        Just days before the war, I said in a TV interview with CNN that I believed the administration knew more about the Niger allegations than it was saying.

        According to numerous journalists who have looked into the case, shortly after I made that statement on CNN, senior administration officials in the vice president's office ordered a ''workup'' on me, to collect information that could be used in a smear campaign when and if it became necessary. Those and other sources tell me the person who likely directed that campaign is I. Lewis ''Scooter'' Libby, the vice president's chief of staff and a leading neoconservative. I believe he is also quite possibly the person responsible for exposing my wife's identity.

  •  A Mother's day Rove indictment (9+ / 0-)

    . . . would be a dream prezzy.

    I think Rove is toast and the WH knows it. If Rove was still in the loop the Goss resignation wouldn't have been such a bumbling fiasco.

  •  Karl 'forgot' all that? (24+ / 0-)

    My my, Karl Rove doesn't seem as all-powerful as we've thought, if he can't even remember a major political threat to his president's re-election.  Maybe he's got can't-rememberitis.  There seems to be a lot of it going around in Washington these days.  Haven't seen such an outbreak since the latter Reagan days.

    The Grand Jury's gonna buy that one.  Uh huh.  The indictment's right on schedule for Mother(fucker)'s Day.

    -4.50, -5.85 In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. --Orwell

    by Dallasdoc on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:16:58 PM PDT

    •  Poor Karl has 'CRS' (5+ / 0-)

      Can't remember shit.

      •  CRS? (13+ / 0-)

        I thought that stood for Criminal Republican Scumbag.

        He's sure got that.

        -4.50, -5.85 In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. --Orwell

        by Dallasdoc on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:44:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

          •  It might be that he was taking Ambian. That just (4+ / 0-)

            happened to poor Patrick Kennedy. He was sleep driving to go vote on a Senate Bill at 300am.

            And I saw a CNN report about people sleep eating after taking Ambian.

            And House had a show about this woman who was having regular sleep sex with here ex-husband but couldn't remember any of it.

            So maybe poor Karl Rove is innocent afterall.

            He could have been taking Ambien and sleep walking into the White House, and smearing Joseph Wilson and others in his sleep.

            So when he told the prosecutors he couldn't remember, maybe it wasn't perjury after all.

            LOL

            I mean he's tried every other possible story.  I can't beleive Libby and these other folks have paid so many million to all of these lawyers.  I could have made up better stories than these silly ones we've been reading about.

            And I charge a whole lot less.  You'll should keep my card's in you wallet, just in case your ever in a pickle.

            Just call the HoundDog, and I'll figure a way out of whatever jam your in.  

            No crime is too great that the Ambien Defense won't help.

            But be sensible folks.  One you come up with one story you have to stick too it.  

            Both Rove and Kennedy messed up when they changed their story too many times.

            First Patrick said he was driving to the House to vote probably to cover drinking. (which means a cop couldn't arrest him.)

            Then when he realize that wasn't plausible at 300am he came up with the Ambian thing, which was much better.  But then he added the Bipolar things, the anti-depressent thing, and then the codiene, and the addiction to painkiller thing.  

            And now has had to check himself into the MAO clinic while his lawyers try to figure out what to to do next.

            Rove has sort of done the same thing.  Once you change you story about 8 times you can sort of predict you're just digging yourself in deeper.

            Patrick Fitzgerald will probably get away with a reckless driving ticket for the accident in which not one was hurt.

            But now has convencied us he will need notes from five different kinds of Doctors before he can convince us it's safe to let him out in public without supervision.  

            Don't ever confess to crimes or conditions worse than the ones you're trying to lie your way out of.

            This is suggestion #3 in my upcoming book 7 Great Way To Minimize Jail Time, Indictments, Political Scandal and Impeachment.

            And just for my loyal dkos readers I'll share rule

            #5.  Always insist on getting payoffs in cash in small denomination bills with none sequencial serial numbers. And in worst case try to avoid in kind or trade payments involving hookers, drugs, or selling property for many times it's worth that leaves financial records or witnesses, DNA, or finger prints.  Use your heads here folks.

            Not being able to remember due to Ambian side effects, or raising reasonable liguistic alternative interpretations of what the word "is" means or what "lie" or "leaking intelligence" isn't going to work if you leave a lot of DNA or compromising pictures with hookers lying around.

            But again, use common sense.  If your going to do the hooker thing in compromising circumstances as least set up some silly Halloween pictures or Elks Club initiation things, or join community theater one year so you can fall back on the "me and the boys" were just googing around for fun thing defense.  Just ask Jeb if everyone wasn't dreessing up like kangoroos and hopping around.  

            These pictures must be from one of the Kwana Club picnic Halloween parties.

            But never confess to addictions or psychiatric diagnosis not one has even brought up yet.

            Call the HoundDog first.

            Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

            by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:49:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Rove is using the Capt, Queeg defense (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      Oh, to see Rove in a witness stand squirming and looking for some little balls to play with. That would be divine.

      The Caine Mutiny Court-Martial

    •  Grand Jury Won't Buy It. Jury Won't Buy It. (12+ / 0-)

      Rove probably wishes his case was decided in an election rather than through the judicial system. He could probably use his political skills to get some of the public to sympathize with a hard working busy man who shouldn't be expected to remember e-mails and telephone conversations and whether someone was covert or not. There is no way he could get a jury to buy it with Fitzgerald's team calling it bullshit in a court room.

      Good Government. Traffic Lights Aren't All That Weird. Vote Democratic!

      by HL Mungo on Sun May 07, 2006 at 09:12:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But this is part of why he got into trouble (7+ / 0-)

        I believe.  His style in elections is throw up all the shit that possible against the wall to see what sticks.

        What he didn't expect and is not used to is someone like Fitzgerald keeping track of it all and saying okay, On this day you said xxxx about this.  

        How is that consistent with this evidence.

        Karl tries the royal brush off, lies again, but Fitz doesn't go away or get intimidated.

        I think Rove is still confused about this.

        Maybe he is one of this idiot-savaants that is a genius in some ways but totally clueless in others.

        And he just trusted completely in the Bush family's Dynasty could protect him and Georgie through any shennigans they may pull.

        Wrong!  Not! Go directly to Jail, Do not pass go and do not collect $200 dollars.  

        Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

        by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:55:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  His Persuasion Skills Mean Diddly... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, Dallasdoc

          in a courtroom. It would be a great irony if the man who was the "architect" of re-electing a man who was in the midst of  conducting a losing war, went 0 for 12 in trying to convict a jury.

          Good Government. Traffic Lights Aren't All That Weird. Vote Democratic!

          by HL Mungo on Mon May 08, 2006 at 12:09:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  While you must have meant (0+ / 0-)
            "convinced a jury" not "convict a jury" that brings up an interesting point.

            What pressures can be brought against the jury?

            Best Wishes, Demena

            by Demena on Mon May 08, 2006 at 06:33:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  My Self-Editing Skills,... (0+ / 0-)

              always weak, are particularly bad in the AM hours. I'd like to think that pressuring a jury would not be a concern but, folks who have no respect for the integrity of the electoral process probably do not have respect for the integrity of the judicial process.

              Good Government. Traffic Lights Aren't All That Weird. Vote Democratic!

              by HL Mungo on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:18:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Fit'z Jury (3+ / 0-)

        Rove probably wishes his case was decided in an election rather than through the judicial system. He could probably use his political skills to get some of the public to sympathize with a hard working busy man who shouldn't be expected to remember e-mails and telephone conversations and whether someone was covert or not. There is no way he could get a jury to buy it with Fitzgerald's team calling it bullshit in a court room.

        Didn't I read somewhere that there are quite a few Black women from DC on that jury?  You don't suppose they'll remember that Karl could have been involved in advising the Prez to "forget" about all those people who were drowning in New Orleans?

    •  He's got (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, boofdah

      Reaganitis.

      People talking in movie shows, People smoking in bed, People voting Republican, Give them a boot to the head!

      by trojanrabbit on Sun May 07, 2006 at 09:25:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tony Snow could have an interesting week (26+ / 0-)

    Why did Goss resign?  Hookers?

    Is Hayden the right guy?

    And a Rove indictment at the end of the week.  

    The Snow Job begins!

    'Events are in the saddle and ride mankind.' Emerson

    by deepsouthdoug on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:17:00 PM PDT

  •  Karl Rove can quote 'Sideshow Bob': (6+ / 0-)

    "Someday the Democrats will be in power again and I'll be back on the streets!"

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Who will watch the watchers?)

    by The Crusty Bunker on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:29:50 PM PDT

  •  I think he's going down. (22+ / 0-)

    Nice little quote from the article:

    Fitzgerald is weighing Rove's foggy-memory defense against evidence he has acquired or accumulated over nearly 2 1/2 years that shows Rove was very involved in White House efforts to beat back allegations that Bush twisted U.S. intelligence to justify the Iraq war, according to sources involved in the case . . . Additionally, one former government official said he testified that Rove talked with White House colleagues about the political importance of defending the prewar intelligence and countering Plame's husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV.

    IMHO, Fitzie is too smart to buy that he forgot about the conversation with Cooper if he was doing all he could to discredit Wilson.

    Four hundred years ago, we were all illegal aliens according to the Comanche.

    by DC Pol Sci on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:37:37 PM PDT

    •  I think so,too. (9+ / 0-)

      Especially since Luskin is still sticking to his story that Rove testified honestly in February,2004 that he didn't remember the Cooper conversation because Viveca Novak tipped off Luskin to the fact that the rumor at Time was that Rove was Cooper's source.

      In his most recent testimony, Rove said he would have been foolish to lie when he first testified and explained how he had been tipped before his first grand jury appearance that Time reporters were openly speculating about his conversation with Cooper.

      Except, Viveca Novak testified that she really couldn't remember when she tipped off Luskin, except that she thought it was either March or May 04, and NOT January, 2004, when Luskin alleges the conversation occured.

      Then there's that little matter that even if Novak is wrong and Luskin is right, how come it took Rove over 9 months, 'till Oct 04, to come clean on the Hadley e-mail, which should have been handed over when first subject to subpoena.

      Then there's the fact that the Cooper's call wasn't logged.  And the fact that Rove insisted he learned about Wilson's wife from reporters, but couldn't remember which reporters.

      Going down for lying to the Feds, perjury, and we hope, obstruction.  I think Rove testified honestly about Bob Novak because he knew Novak would cover him.  He lied about Cooper because he thought he would get away with it, that Cooper would never testify.

      •  yes this seven month gap is highly significant. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Torquemadog

        But I don't see how it doesn't also indict Luskin as well.  If Viveca or Fitzgerald can find some other evidende supporting her version of the timing then should'nt Luskin be disabarred and indicted for OOJ as well?  He testified under oath about this did he not?

        Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

        by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:09:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I doubt Fitz will do that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, Torquemadog

          I don't see how it doesn't also indict Luskin as well

          some of the upper level Plameolgists have theorized that fitz would be reluctant to indict Luskin because of the potential to damage lawyer-client privilige

          back in october, Fitz said he wouldn't indict under section 793 because of the danger of creating a "State's Secrets" precedent, so the above theory is probably correct

          •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)

            Fitz plays it straight.  One wonders, though, why he even let the lawyer testify under oath.

            I don't think Luskin will get indicted.  Ethics complaint to the D.C. Bar, maybe...

            Four hundred years ago, we were all illegal aliens according to the Comanche.

            by DC Pol Sci on Mon May 08, 2006 at 04:16:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  OK...Lets get one thing straight! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Glic, lilnubber, Torquemadog

        Then there's that little matter that even if Novak is wrong and Luskin is right, how come it took Rove over 9 months, 'till Oct 04, to come clean on the Hadley e-mail, which should have been handed over when first subject to subpoena.

        Rove DID NOT COME CLEAN IN OCTOBER 2004.

        In October 2004 Rove testified that he must have talked to Cooper since Luskin found the email, but he still didn't remember the conversation.

        Leaving everyone to believe that the Rove-Hadley email meant that he "didn't take the bait."  That is, he left the impression that he didn't out Plame at his Oct 2004 testimony.

        This is a critical point.

        It was not until June/July 2005 that Luskin starts dribbling out that Rove mentioned Wilson's wife to Cooper.

        Who knew

    •  What I love about this is the coming disclosure (6+ / 0-)

      What I love is that in order to make this argument, Fitzgerald is going to want and have to detail in the indictment the overall extensive operation at the WH to discredit Plame and how Rove was at the center of it in order to show Rove could not have forgotten.  The more detail about the extensive operation the better to prove this point.  

      This will implicate Bush and/or Cheney directly even more than Libby already did.

      In other words, Fitzgerald will have a need to include all sorts of politically damaging details from the grand jury that otherwise would not be subject to disclosure.

      "Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine, from his play Almansor (1821)

      by egrass on Sun May 07, 2006 at 09:28:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MediaFreeze, cotterperson

        Fitz charged Libby with lying to the Feds, perjury and obstruction while revealing as little as he could.

        It's pretty clear (if press reporting is to be believed) that he can do the same with Rove, and reveal just a tad bit more than we've previously known.

        Now, maybe that tad bit more will be a big thrill for us following this, but if he indicts Rove, and continues his investigation, you can be sure he'll be protecting anything that impacts the ongoing investigation.

        Rove's possible indictment may shed a little, or lot, of light, on how the investigation is proceeding and in which direction.  

  •  This is Old News around here, but (9+ / 0-)

    this just came out from Reuters.

    http://today.reuters.com/...

    Could explain why Fitzgerald is being so cautious about going after Rove too early.

    Rove's just the middle of this food chain.

    I love the smell of impeachment in the morning!

    by gabbardd on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:57:35 PM PDT

    •  Bush 'declassified' Plame's identity? WTF? Help (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      EricBlair, Demena

      me understand.

      Libby's lawyer:  Scooter didn't leak before Dick authorized him to leak. Dick didn't authorize until W. declassified Plame's status as an agent.

      My question: How can a President declassify an agent's status, knowing it will be leaked to the press, without being hung for treason?

      Why would W. declassify her status? What other reason could he give for doing so?

      I'm just trying to anticipate his bullshit excuse for the decision (he is the decider, right?) to declassify knowledge that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent while she was undercover monitoring weapons in the Middle East?

      This is more than impeachment material isn't it?  Isn't this swinging by a rope time for W. & Dick (not to mention Rove, Libby, et al)?

      I love the smell of impeachment in the morning!

      by gabbardd on Sun May 07, 2006 at 10:38:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Libby's lawyers claim that Bush and Cheney (5+ / 0-)

        authorized disclosure of parts of the National Intelligence Estimate, a report that is supposed to represent the concensus of the intelligence community on key matters of significant national security interest.  

        There's been no claim made either by Libby's defense team or the prosecution that Bush and Cheney authorized the leak of Plame's CIA identity.

      •  at this point it isn't possible (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson

        How can a President declassify an agent's status, knowing it will be leaked to the press, without being hung for treason?

        last I heard, 2408 soldiers were dead in Iraq

        if george thinks he can wave his magic declassification wand over this and make it all go away, george is in for a big surprise

        impeachment, removal from office, arrest, bail,  and the lynching would soon follow

        we ain't been investigating this  crime for nearly three years for nothing

        if george wants to admit to this, lets talk about that star on the wall at langley

        after that, george better hope he's right, cuz if we prove a CIA agent died because of this leak, that makes this a death penalty bounce (and you don't want to be on the wrong end of a death penalty case in this country)

    •  The way i understand it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      knowthings, HoundDog

      the guy lied 9 times to the grand jury (per Fitz documents).  It doesn't matter if the material was classified or not because he is going to be charged (or so it seems) with lying to FBI agents and to the grand jury about his actions.

      That should hold tight, shouldn't it?

    •  This is important gabbardd. I wrote during the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tabbycat in tenn, gabbardd

      weekend that the judge keeps saying Bush and Cheneys declassification is not relevent to the purjery  charge.  But bonesy and I just realized a few hours ago, that Libby's lawyers are actually arguing the defense of the IIPA charges that Fitzgerald has not made yet, but might be considering against both Rove and Libby.

      These carry life terms or even the death penalty if it can be proven that an agent was killed as a consequence.

      So Libby's lawyers are in a full court press to prevent the addition of the IIPA charge in my opinion.

      Because all of these disclosure subpoena's are pissing off the judge and not helping at all in the purjery case.  

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:20:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent diary-very important+highly recommended (4+ / 0-)
    •  Thanks concerned. You must have a vast following (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Torquemadog

      concerned because I noticed that everytime you do this I get about 100 comments almost immediately.

      Do you have an alert system or have you just developed a following of hundreds of people who just skip the front page and go straight to your comments list to look for the great reads of the day.  

      Maybe I'll start this habit as well.  Cause from my point of view you seem to be a person of keen and acute insight and a great judge of diaries.  LOL

      Hey I never saw yet it you were confessing to being Jane Hamsher or not?

      The way you thanked my so profusely in those comments where I was praising her yesterday for that great piece she did over at FDL was sort of suspicious.  

      I better go over and check for your response.  LOL

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:25:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  does anyone else think (6+ / 0-)

    This Rove thing could be taking so long because Fitz is going to charge Rove with the BIG Crime? Outing Valorie Plame? Wouldn't that be Sweet.

    "The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction." -Gandhi

    by Chamonix on Sun May 07, 2006 at 09:33:11 PM PDT

    •  No, I don't think it's even possible that Rove (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, Chamonix

      is going to be charged.

      It's pretty obvious that the WH house obstructed this investigation from the get-go.  As one senior Bushco official told the Financial Times back in Dec 03 (before Fitz was appointed), "We have rolled the earthmovers in over this one."

      They didn't turn over the really incriminating e-mails and documents - the Hadley e-mail didn't make it to Fitz until Rove thought he had no choice but to make it magically appear in Oct 04.  Even a few months ago, Fitz got new e-mails that weren't "properly archived".

      Anything else documenting Plame's status ain't getting out.  Fitz admitted he didn't have enough to charge that Libby knew Plame was covert.

      The Fitz MO is usually to flip the lower level players to get the big fish, and take as long is takes to do so.  But I just don't see Libby or Rove flipping.  They have all the money in the world to defend this, they have the possibility of pardon while Bush is in office, they are both true believers who know how Nixon came undone.   I honesstly don't see these two coming clean in any way.  

      •  2lucky (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peraspera

        oh yea of little faith...

        rove goes down this week or next...

        •  Not the spy outing crime.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          peraspera

          never...

          it is too hard to try the case...

          but rove will be indicted soon on perjury and obstruction...

          and there will be dancing in the streets...

        •  No, I think it's very likely he'll (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson

          be charged with lying to the Feds, perjury and, if there is a God, obstruction.

          I was responding to whether or not Rove would be charged with being the original leaker.

          No way.  If Fitz had the documented goods on these guys, he wouldn't be going through the tortured process of Rove's fifth GJ appearance.  Libby would have been hit harder.

          No, I think the best Fitz will get is the Libby indictment, likely Rove, maybe conspiracy beyond these two, but actually getting to Cheney, the prize?  I don't see it.  These guys have the money to defend themselves, the potential for pardon, and the lesson of Nixon, which Rove ain't going to forget.  They're true believers.  They will not take Bush down.

          •  It will take time... (0+ / 0-)

            but once Rove is indicted and spending all his time and money on staying out of jail, the dynamics will change...

            this will all be happening as, if there is a God, the House and maybe Senate are returned to Democratic rule. So things will be very different...

            like the end of a dark commedy...

            These boys have misbehaved way too much. It is beyond the point of no return. There is no comfy retirement for the worst President in American history. This is going to get ugly...

            Bring it on...

            •  I don't know MF. (0+ / 0-)

              Did you see who the NH telephone jammers were dealing with?  CREEP.

              Yes, the same nebulous organization that funded Nixon dirty tricks.  

              The Republicans have all the money in the world, and the shamelessness ain't going away either.

              They may go underground while the heat is on, but I don't think you can ever forget that money will find a way.

              I think it's unrealistic to expect that an organization NOT taken down with Nixon's impeachment is going down now.  Not a chance.  

              This is an eternal battle, like good v evil.  Indicments may slow them down, but they ain't giving up, and they have the money, money, money.  

              •  Well then yes... (0+ / 0-)

                ...I agree.

                If you are talking about the eternal battle between good and evil.

                It will not be won by ridding this nation of Bush and his cabal. Evil lurks throughout this nation and the world and is obviously gaining power and influence during these dark times.

                But good has power too, and a very important step toward a better world will be taken when these bastards are sent packing...

              •  Nixon's Impeachment didn't kill anybody (0+ / 0-)

                I think it's unrealistic to expect that an organization NOT taken down with Nixon's impeachment is going down now.  Not a chance.

                Nixon's crimes didn't have any headstones attached. When bush's crimes become obvious to all, there are gonna be a lot of pissed off people

                what do you figure the multipule would be for the number of mourners per dead soldier, X = 5, X = 10, X = 25 ???

                plug in the numbers to find out how many people there are in the world who have a reason to be seriously pissed at the bushistas

                last I heard, the equation was X multiplied by 2408

                that's a lot of seriously pissed off people

                wanna talk about the people who have been seriously wounded by the incompetence and criminal behavior of george bush ??? (we're talking a whole level of magnitude there)

          •  By the above.... (0+ / 0-)

            I mean I completely agree with you on the charges.

            Perjury and Obstruction.

            But then the sweating begins.

            I've seen it before. When the squealy wheelie piggies are squeezed, they....well...squeal! Unless, as I guess you suggest, Bush uses the pardon...

            But the air is so poisonous...

            These are historic times...

            I think that if the Congress goes blue, anything could (and should) happen...

      •  scooter might have admitted to violating the IIPA (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson

        there were reports at FireDogLake that said scooter testified that he was warned about Plame's status in between his conversations with judyjudyjudy, and before his conversation with Cooper

        if it turns out to be true, the whole bunch is meat on a stick

    •  Like S U G A R (0+ / 0-)

      which I try not to eat!  I'll take a big bite of this cookie though.  Yummm...

    •  yes, and I think thats why Libby's lawyer have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chamonix

      actually been defending against the IIPA chargers not the perjury charges.  Bonesy and I just figured out yesterday in my Libby diary that this is the only way it makes sense that Libby's lawyer are pissing off the judge so much.

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:27:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What I love the most is (10+ / 0-)

    Karl's one last, desperate dig at the Dems (from the NYT)...

    ...Rove confidently tells the Times that he isn't worried about the troubles for the Bush Administration that a Democratic majority might bring.

    "We won't see how that plays out because they're not going to win," Rove said.

    Now my mission in life from now until November 7th is to get as many Democrats elected in both chambers of Congress so as to wipe that smug-ass smile from Karma Karl-meely-one's face.

    Payback's gonna be a bitch, ain't it, KKKarl?

  •  Thanks for the excellent diary. Recommended! (7+ / 0-)

    With Limbaugh and DeLay both giving big, happy grins for their mug shots, I wonder if Rove will keep up the trend.  This will make a fabulous coffee table book of all of the criminals in the Bush administration giving big cheesy smiles in honor of their arrests.  What a great way to remember the Bush administration.  Sorry, smug, bunch of criminals.  I will be so glad to be rid of them all.

    •  Actually, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      knowthings, peraspera

      You might have yourself a money maker there! Especially with all the different twists and turns. And don't forget all the sexual perverts!

    •  Thanks. I't odd macmcd, But I seem to get the (0+ / 0-)

      best feedback for the ones I work on the least.

      The ones I spend hours on doing all sort of research sometime don't even get 5 comments.

      But if I snag a breaking piece on Rove and resist the urge to add a lot of interpretation they go right to the top.  Especially if concerned likes them.

      For some reason I think concerned is a she I don't know why.  But I've decided to do a profile on her for my upcoming diary, "How To Write Recomended Daily Kos Diaries in Seven Easy Steps"

      The best secret seems to be to get concerned to give you a "highly Recommended--Very Important"  line.  

      I think I have a statistically significant data-base by now that proves that this will delivery at least 50 recommends and 100 comments within the next one to two hours.

      Either she has a vast following and alert system, or she is like Ohio or those Bell weather States and districts that people keep an eye on because they correctly predict the Presidential vote for the last 200 years.

      I'm going to try to work out some deal where I can submit drafts in an advance and ask her(or him sorry) what I need to do to make them better from her point of view.  

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:37:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh I forgot the punch line, it was the main trick (0+ / 0-)

        I've learned so far is do as little of my own writing as possible.  Concerned seems to apprecite brevity.  ;-)

        Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

        by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I like it when folks I detest are at wits end... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, HoundDog

    and I like my media Over Easy.

    Bacon crisp.

    Browns hashed.
    A side of Toast.

    Oh, and do you have a paper lying around?

    just saying...

    ...and now that I'm cooking with THAT line of seasoning...

    by bastrop on Sun May 07, 2006 at 09:49:41 PM PDT

  •  An interesting note in the NYT... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, KenBee, MarketTrustee

    When did Sara Taylor become Political Director at the White House?  I traced her back to Assistant Political Director in a 2002 story.  Did we miss something?

    http://desmoinesregister.com/...

    There are a number of Iowa natives or people who formerly lived in Iowa working in the Bush administration. The White House helped prepare the following list of staff members with Iowa ties:

    <snip>

    Sara Taylor, associate director, Office of Political Affairs, White House, Dubuque.

    More from the NY Times article (Monday).  Does it seem like he's in a hurry, and does it seem like Rove is getting a lot of press after being totally out of the msm for aeons?

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    Rove Is Using Threat of Loss to Stir G.O.P.
    By JIM RUTENBERG
    Published: May 8, 2006

    With so much on the line, Mr. Rove has taken to traveling the country to form strategies with individual candidates and local parties while brainstorming with the president's political and policy teams on broad items the White House can pursue to help Republicans everywhere. He is focusing on only the major planks of Mr. Bush's agenda and not the minutiae of policy that had consumed hours of his day.

    In regular West Wing breakfast sessions catered by the White House mess, Mr. Rove and the White House political director, Sara Taylor, have already been reaching out to nervous and vulnerable Republicans, three at a time, laying out an emerging three-prong attack on Democrats over national security, taxes and health care.

    Guess we should know soon!

  •  A Goss resignation (10+ / 0-)

    and a Rove indictment.  Would there be a link between the two?

    I'm aware of the smorgasbord of possible reasons for Goss' resignation.  I have my own theories about an internal battle in the intel agencies and in the Pentagon/military.

    But I hadn't given much consideration to a possible link between the timing of Goss' resignation and the Fitzgerald investigation, since he wasn't the CIA director at the time of the Plame "outing".  But it may be worth pondering.

    A side note:  Everytime I get to thinking about Fitz's investigation, as he delves into White House,  intel and media institutions, I can't help but wonder how much the man has dug up, how much he has been told by people trying to save themselves, and how much he may have found out from intel career folk, retired and otherwise.  It's very possible that he knows more about what's really happening in our govt. and DCbubbleworld, than perhaps any other.    I wonder how much information he gets through informal channels.

    •  Well... (5+ / 0-)

      since he wasn't the Cia director at the time of the Plame "outing".

      But he wasnt totally uninvolved either in the Plame outing since he was Chairman of House Committe on Intell from 1997 to 2005. Cant totally count him out in all of this.

      Only the dissatisfied can make change

      by pharoah on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:14:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hi, Joanneleon. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      knowthings, joanneleon

      Should I troll rate you for old-time's sake?!

      I agree- Fitz has to have a world of info that would keep us talking for years.  But he's made clear that he's taking seriously the limits of his mandate: the investigation of whether or not a covert operative identity was leaked, and any obstruction into that investigation.

      I believe that the WH has hidden any paper trail referencing the name "Plame" and the source of the fact that it was Italy intelligence that supposedly cued the U.S. in on the Niger claim.

      Novak and the WH came up with stories to cover the real trail.

      But, I did wonder about the abruptness of the Goss resignation, particularly since there were no bombshell revelations that would have explained the Buscho steppin' all ovah the Kennedy media that was all set to rule the Sunday punditry coverage.  Maybe Bolten is really, really bad at his new job.

      Or maybe Goss said it all when he told the media his resignation was just "one of those mysteries."

      Sounds like Goss, who is not-so-bright in the Bush mode, may have let leaks and investigations get too far, and the WH shut him down.

      •  2Llucky, didn't you hear about.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, joanneleon
        The Hookers?
        •  ooops...sorry about the big 'L' (0+ / 0-)

          ...but seriously, don't you think that dumb crony creepoid Porter Goss was up to his eyeballs in hookers and lobbyists?

          ...and I'm sure there are pictures.

          •  I'd like to think there are pictures, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joanneleon, KenBee

            but even if there are, do you count on the media to cover that like they did Clinton/Monica?

            I was completely apolitical way back to when I turned on the TV every night it was FileGate, it was Hillary, healthcare and socialism, it was Whitewater, it was Foster maybe being murdered, it was TravelGate.

            Seen anything like that wall-to-wall coverage on Bush in the last five years?  

            They're still not admitting the war was a sham.  

            There may be pictures.  They may not matter.

          •  I didn't think Hookers were enough for the GOP (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee, MarketTrustee, Torquemadog

            Wasn't the old saying being caught with a live boy or dead hookers.  

            Unless he was dress up like a kangaroo or something kinky, hookers are just a standard part of the GOP socialt  scene.

            There's gotta be some other angle on it.  Maybe drugs.  Oh yeah I remember now. The hookers were part of a political payoff and defense contract bribery.

            Yes, I know that's also pretty tame by GOP standards but he may have faile to report this on his income tax or declare it on his security clearence back ground investigations.  

            The CIA still takes those more seriously.  Well of course except for the Presidenent and his wife and VP.

            Did anyone notice how nothing has been said about Bush's obvious drug use and failure to admit these in this FBI clearence investigations?  

            In Kitty Kelly's book Dynasty, she reported that Laura was the go too girl for nickle bags in her soririty.  

            And, according to Kitty,  Bush is alleged to have one beeb fond of  Coccaine.  Maybe even arrested for it, but allowed to do a year of community service in seal court records. And she speculates this is why he skipped his national guard physical and went AWOL for a year.  Because he was afraid the blood test would show his drug use.

            His response to the press is that he didn't think it appropriate to answer such questions because it might confuse America's youth.  WTF.

            And out mindless press must have all been taking Ambian and sleepwalking because the response was duh, whatever you say Mr President.

            But Kelly was anticipating trouble on the FBI background checks.
            '
            Probably a story or two here for any hungry investigative journalists.  

             

            Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

            by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:59:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The 'fornagate' thing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sclminc

        while it wasn't new news, was about as big a bombshell as one could get - in fact so big, that the timing of the release of this story makes me question why it was brought out now.  Just like the New York Times bombshell of a story last December, about the NSA spying scandal.  It was published just in time for the voting frenzy at the end of last year, and of course, just before the publishing of Risen's book.    Anyway, it's just a thought, that when something big and obvious is suddenly put out there by the press, it's wise to look around at other stories happening at the same time.

        P.S. about the accidental troll ratings - sure :) - it could be a secret handshake thing, lol.  And btw, I did the same thing the other day, hit the wrong button I guess - caught it the next day luckily because it happened at the worst possible time - could easily have been misinterpreted.  

    •  That why I want to find other way of getting as (0+ / 0-)

      much of this evidence on the congressional record as possible.

      And am encouraging Joe and Valerie Wilson to file a civil suit.  As a public service.  

      Helping to bring justice back to the White House, one indictment at a time.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:45:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hope, I hope, I hope.. (0+ / 0-)

    But "Raw Story?"

    "The Hill?"

    These "Internets" raise false hopes.

    Fukkit. I'm working for Charlie Brown against Dr. Doolittle without the degree.

    One step at a time children. One step at a time. In kaleefornia we have an action figure hero as governator,

    One step at a time.

    (Fuck Diebold.)

    mali principi malus fini -8.88 -5.08

    by SecondComing on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:21:49 PM PDT

  •  Fitzmas seems to come sooner every year (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, peraspera
  •  Cliff May's 7/11/03 article on Wilson (0+ / 0-)

    is an example of exactly that.  May had the same information that Novak did, even later claiming to have known Plame's name and occupation at the time he wrote the article.  Novak's article was also available on the 11th, meaning they were both written in advance of the 11th.  May's article is a CLASSIC example of Rove smear tactics, and while it's certainly possible May did all the research on his own, given Rove's own admission that "Wilson's wife was fair game", I found it highly unlikely.

    One aspect of this that's never been fully explored is the possibility that members (and/or staffers) of the House and Senate Intelligence committtees also participated in passing on information, either to the WH & OVP, or to reporters.  Wilson testified (in closed hearings) to both committees during the 3rd week of June, and I find it difficult to believe that no one on the GOP side of the aisle didn't think to give the WH a heads-up.    

    "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." --George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

    by littlesky on Mon May 08, 2006 at 03:34:04 AM PDT

  •  Have a Fitz! (6+ / 0-)

    Fitz to Rove: "Buddy, you are THIS CLOSE to being indicted."

    "Biggest Pain-in-the-Ass on This Board"!!

    by hrh on Mon May 08, 2006 at 04:04:39 AM PDT

  •  You missed something... (3+ / 0-)

    where President Bush comes out and reiterates his support for Karl Rove. You're doing a heck of a job Karly!

    Bush's nickname for him is Turdblossom!! So much better a fit, don't you think?

    All Truth is non-partisan

    by MA Liberal on Mon May 08, 2006 at 04:11:21 AM PDT

  •  'Karly?' (0+ / 0-)

    Far too sophisticated a nickname for Bush to hand out.  It's "Turd Blossom," remember?

  •  Is Jim Van de Hei really worth reading (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder if VandeHei, like Snow, is a movement conservative?  

    I've seen this guy on Olbermann and he is an enabler.  Why, after Judy and Matt went to jail, are reporters still using anonymous sources when they report on the Plame Affair. I wouldn't put it past this guy that "[a] former government official" is Libby, and I wonder if the second named "former aide" is Rove.

    BTW, Luskin says Rove's focuse wasn't on Wilson. Yes, we know.  Rove's focus was on smearing Wilson or anyone who dared to challenge Bushco.  

  •  hopefully we can get the frogmarch soon (0+ / 0-)

    I'm losing my patience

  •  Left-Right-HOP-Left-Right-HOP... (4+ / 0-)

    The picture we'd like to see:

    Frog March
    A re-post of an earlier post:

    This was a comment I had put on a different thread. Seems apropos here.


     

    Now that Valerie Plame/Wilson has "gone public" (She's signing a book deal), we should start seeing her face in a lot more places.

    You gotta admit, she's a good-lookin' lady:


    Valerie Wilson



    She's about as all-American as you can get.


    Now compare her with the person who smeared her:


    Piggie


    Good Guys = Armani, good looking.


    Bad Guys = Oink.

    "[T]hat I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake."

    by Heronymous Cowherd on Mon May 08, 2006 at 05:36:44 AM PDT

  •  I don't doubt that Rove harped (0+ / 0-)
    on the nuclear material and don't question his attorney's assertion that Wilson was not the focus.

    The focus was and continues to be the "nuclear" issue--how Americans are going to be brought 'round to accepting a restart of the nuclear weapons development and testing program and the resumption of the building of nuclear energy plants.

    The word nuclear has to be kept in the public mind and their fear of nuclear bombs in the hands of enemy forces needs to be made to trump their fear of nuclear power plants.

    If our nuclear weapons program isn't restarted soon, we might as well give it up because the current stock-pile is becoming unrealiable and the technical skill sets are atrophying.  So, it's now or never.  We just need an excuse.  Fear of Iran and North Korea is it now that Iraq no longer works.

    Forget "GOD, GUNS, GAYS, GIRLS & GETS"

    by hannah on Mon May 08, 2006 at 06:53:46 AM PDT

  •  Wet Blanket Time (0+ / 0-)

    Let's rejoice when and if the indictment(s) are handed "up."  Court cases are twilight zones - one never knows what's going to happen - particularly when has a prosecutor that is as leak-proofed as Fitzgerald appears to be.  Any number of things can happen or won't happen.  While the speculation is fun - it may just make you crazy and despondent if things turn out differently than the hoped for outcome.

    I swear I'm neither a Jonah nor an Eeyore - just someone wanting to try to stay sane in Bush's Bizarro world.  Just trying to keep my perspective and wanting others to keep theirs. I've practiced criminal law and I was never as cautious as when hearing that the jury was about to return with a verdict.  No matter how good I thought my case was...I always stayed quiet until the jury was back.I desperately would love to see Rove pushing a laundry cart at Lewisburg. We all want it to happen so much that most of the posts are working on the assumption that he will be indicted. I don't want to see Fitzgerald "no bill" Rove and have the spin from the criminal class running our country rise to tsunamic proprotions.  It can happen and I think we have to be prepared for that possibility.

    I don't want to see folks hopes dashed on the rocks because of their fervent best hopes.  Fitzgerald may decide not to indict Rove.  He may decide not to indict anyone else.  Just because we want him to and have so effectively played Hardy Boys and Nancy Drews in constructing the case that we'd bring does NOT mean that Fitzgerald will follow suit.  Boy...I sure hope he does.  I think that Rove is one of the most dangerous criminals this country has known and I'd much prefer to see him working on his legal defense rather than aiding the 2006 mid-terms.  But that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

    "We're all working for the Pharoah" - Richard Thompson

    by mayan on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:20:55 AM PDT

  •  I a way... (0+ / 0-)

    I don't really blame Rove on this.  The man is a weasel, but that is his nature.  His job is to save the pResident's ass - no matter what.  Who do I blame?  #1 that goddamn media for not doing there job and asking questions about how the intelligence could be so wrong. #2 The Dem leaders for the same thing.

    We have been screaming about this until we are blue in the face and no one seems to want to listen.  I think we are now at a point where we will get what we deserve.

    "[A] 'Sharecropper's Society' [is] precisely where our trade policies, supported by Republicans and Democrats alike, are taking us." - Warren Buffet

    by RichM on Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:01:11 AM PDT

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