Daily Kos

Golden Gould Awards for 2005

Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:27:54 PM PDT

Some people might call them idiots, sadly misled, or pig ignorant ... George Bush calls them his Base.

The statements below the fold were taken from chat rooms, e-mails, IM's, and the Talk Origins Feedback Archive. As best I can tell these are all sincere objections to evolutionary biology--that's part of what makes them so funny. In several cases I conversed with the authors enough to establish they probably weren't just kids. The scary thing is, a number of them claimed to have degrees in hard science and one or two said they were teachers.

Please vote for your favorite as the winner receives a virtual gold plated statue of the late Stephen J. Gould. The master of evolution is immortalized holding his nose with one hand and a small bag full of unidentified refuse at arms length in the other. Here they are in no particular order.

  • ::
  1. I know you think you have fossils that proof stuff, but those fossils are all fake, they're made out of tar and stuff, this is fact not theory. They have factories in China mostly making the fossils.

  2. If people came from monkeys, why are there still people?

  3. If the strata layers were true, the missing links would be the dinosaurs because they came way before other evolutionary stages. But no, we are finding dinosaur bones left and right. We have over 35 kinds of dinosaurs and we have more than one for each. Is that a problem. How long have they been digging now?

  4. then perhaps you can explain how A fish crawled out of the sea and evolved into a mammal with lungs without dying before he evolved. You scientists make up something to explain all of your theories without ANY proof. You are fools living a lie. And being as Satan is the father of lies, he is your master. Turn or Burn boys!

  5. hey, i get so confused when i hear about all this evolution nonsense. was it once upon a time,lifeless matter came to life. became a mything link. then a boy.or was it.once upon a time, a lifeless chunk of wood came to life.became a talking puppet.then a boy. please clear up my confusion.....yo momma

  6. DS I'm hoping you won't be like the others and we can have a nice two-way discussion were we each listen to the other persons. As long as you understand that evolutionists have no proof and just the tail on an amoeba is proof of intelligent design and that's my view and I don't really care to read yours.

  7. Evolution? Isn't that what Osama ben Laden believes in? Isn't that what the Taliban teaches in their madroseos? Nice company you keep, terrorist.

  8. You have to ask yourself though, why are evolutionists so vile and disgusting and rude and why are scientists like DR Hovin so polite and courteous? [What makes this e-mail ironic and worthy of nomination is that just a few hours after I opened it I received an unsolicited Instant Message which read in part] "You baby-killers make me sick with your slime are poeple bullshit and your jew teachers telling our kids they're nothing but monkeys. I know you're all gonna brn in jew hell but I hope first we round you pigs up and execute you first, s lowly and painfully.

  9. Most mammals contain DNA similaities because mammals eat other mammals.

IMHO, our winner from 2004 deserves a renomination, below:

     1. How do evolutionists explain the Caribbean Explosion?

Tags: humor, evolution, creationism (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 354 comments

  •  My vote (4.00 / 8)

    #5 is priceless, kind of sums up the whole clan of them. Righteous and proud in their ignorance. The lack of punctuation is a bonus.
  •  Oh DarkSyde. (4.00 / 3)

    I fear for the future of our species.

    It would appear that Julian Jaynes was mistaken; and left-right brain connectivity is gaining as an evolutionary imperative, not receding.

    What am I saying - how can I use the concept of evolution to prove devolution?

    I'm confused.  I need a hand-grenade...

    JF

    It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

    by Jaime Frontero on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:32:24 PM PDT

    •  Would that be the (4.00 / 5)

      Holy Hand Grenade?
    •  To quote Stephen Jay Gould himself (4.00 / 9)

      "There are some things in life that can make you laugh or cry.  It's better to laugh."

      If there's any reason for a God, it must be to comprehend the entirety of the sad, ludicrous, pathetic and somehow endearing human species.  Someone or something must understand us.  We passeth our own understanding.

      Hanoi didn't break John McCain, but Washington did.

      by Dallasdoc on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:27:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What do you mean (none / 0)

      you fear for the future of our species? Our species isn't the same as the species that says and believes what these "people" say and believe.

      The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. -Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Joshua Lyman on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:41:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If only what you said (none / 0)

        were the truth.

        Sadly we do belong to the same species.   Holy crap.   That is too sobering a thought lol.   I need to drink another one just to compensate now.

      •  whether we're the same species or not (and we are) (4.00 / 2)

        they are outbreeding us.  Fear for our future is quite appropriate.
        •  The future of the species is not in doubt. (none / 1)

          Extinction being most likely.

          However - we are committing the basic fallacy of pretending the Bell curve I.Q. distribution does not exist.

          Or, as Nietszche said it, when asked to comment upon the General Educatio movement of his time: "A lot of people who have absolutely no need for the alphabet will just be made miserable when they learn to read."

          "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

          by SteinL on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 01:17:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  extinction is certain but that's not the point (none / 1)

            "The future of the species is not in doubt"

            That's like saying that the future of Iraq is not in doubt because of the heat death of the universe.  It's a comment from the backside of the Bell curve.  As for the fallacy you mention ... no, it is you committing the fallacy, because IQ is a relative measure.  If the low end of the distribution produces more offspring than the high end and one's intelligence correlates with one's parent's intelligence, then the average intelligence of the population will decline in absolute terms, while the average IQ and the shape of the distribution curve remain the same.

            •  Q (none / 0)

              offers hope.   <grin>

              For those who are statistically challenged, it simply means that it is unlikely that high IQ parents will always produce high IQ children, etc.  Given the polygenic basis of the skills involved in most definitions of intelligence it's far more likely that the further out you go on either side of the curve, the more likely the offsprings will be located closer to the mean, not further from it.

              By the way, an objective reader of DK would certainly conclude that the left has no ownership of the right side of the curve.  We have our share of nuts and dolts along with some brilliant folk.

              From the lower, left quadrant of the political compass (www.politicalcompass.org), DrKen

              by DrKen on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 04:52:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  No simple relationship (none / 0)

              I suspect that reproduction correlates positively with wealth and negatively with intelligence.  That is we visualize birth rate as a function of two variables, two orthogonal axes.  If you are smart and do not have a lot of money you tend to realize that lots of kids are financial suicide.  If you are rich then money is not as much a factor.

              Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

              by Event Horizon on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 09:40:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I love that Nietszche quote (none / 0)

            The course of evolution has changed, or at least been undermined by social/financial Darwinism, aka devolution.
            Are we not men?

            "Its a grave digger's song, Praising God and State. So the Nation can live, So we all can remain as cattle. They demand a sacrifice..." -Flipper

            by Skid on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 08:51:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  If not another species, (none / 0)

          it's at least, a gene sink.

          A society of sheep must beget in time a government of wolves. Bertrand de Jouvenel

          by Little Red Hen on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 07:20:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The rational people (4.00 / 5)

      realize that overpopulation is a major threat to the species.

      The irrational people don't care.

      So, as the rational people breed at a reduced rate, irrational people begin to dominate the species.

      I'm going to go have sex with my wife now. (It's purely for the future good of mankind. I promise.)

      congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

      by bartman on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:46:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Being out bred, is there safety in numbers? (none / 0)

      It turns out that fundamentalist all over the world are out breeding the secular. There is an evolutionary trend occurring, but to what end......temporary success of a species leading to its overpopulation, ever increasing competition for resources until they become depleted and  finally an eventual environmental correction, then......lemming like behavior to postpone extinction.

      "Ipstho Phacto"...daffy duck

      by trinityfly on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 04:28:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Claimed to have degrees in hard science (none / 1)

    My mother-in-law earned a BS in biology in 1950 from a reputable college and spent most of her life as a techer. In the last several years she has started to praddle on in the same fashion.

    As cruel as it seems, I try to leave the room when she starts. It's too sad.

    "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

    by Cordelia Lear on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:32:44 PM PDT

    •  That's not ID.... (4.00 / 2)

      That is senility.

      1950?  Let's see, if she were 22 at graduation, and 55 years have past, she would be 77 now.  She can be forgiven.

      However, I doubt that she would subscribe to the nutty idea that when you crack open a fossil from a shale bed in a remoter part of Juniata County, Pennsylvania that the fossil enclosed has a stamp saying "Made In China" stamped on it.

      I know the Chinese are good, but I don't think they have mastered how to insert fossils into undisturbed shale strata clear on the other side of the world yet!

      I vote for #10.

      Today, 7/4/08, 4113 Americans, and untold Iraqis are dead, tens of thousands more maimed. Bush lied, how soon before your family pays the price for that?

      by boilerman10 on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 04:03:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Finally!! (none / 0)

        A vote after my own heart. Number 10 it is. I mean, c'mon: don't you run to Wal-Mart to buy your fossils whenever there's a giant evolutionary roll-back sale advertised??

        When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. -Benjamin Franklin

        by MissAnneThrope on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 05:49:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ancient Chinese secret! (none / 0)

        When God made America and Jesus was our first President, the chinese hated it and started digging a hole to live with their master Satan in Hell and ended up in China. They placed the fossils in the rock as they went.
        Duh! Everyone in Kansas knows that!

        "Its a grave digger's song, Praising God and State. So the Nation can live, So we all can remain as cattle. They demand a sacrifice..." -Flipper

        by Skid on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 08:58:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  #5 is (4.00 / 3)

    the "nice 2-way discussion" segues into how he doesn't want to listen to your side. Brilliant.

    Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

    by Glic on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:33:03 PM PDT

    •  I['m with you, it's #5 (4.00 / 2)

      because it is the most typical of this bull-headed way of thinking foisted upon us by the mainstream media, "fair and balanced" my ass.

      A society of sheep must beget in time a government of wolves. Bertrand de Jouvenel

      by Little Red Hen on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 07:42:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Degrees in Science (none / 0)

      Don't you think most of them who claim degrees are lying. The internet allows people to present themselves as they want to be, not as they are...to attach false and unearned credentials.

      IF posters self-descriptions were true, surely 85% of the right wing posters at Slate are multi-millionaires sipping wine with Mr. & Lovie Howell. You see posters on many sites who wouldn't recognize Marbury v Madison if it bit them in the butt, but claim to be constitutional lawyers. You see folks who think DNA is transmitted by eating such as good old #2 and you naturally have to assume he will claim to be a scientist.

      I think there should be another law of the internet. Poster claims of educational and vocational expertise are in inverse proportion to demonstrated actual knowledge and accuracy....or something to that effect.

      •  scientists may well be creationists (none / 0)

        Among Americans, belief in the American Standard God (an interventionist God who created humans only a few thousand years ago) runs between 60 and 80 percent, depending on how the question is phrased. Among American scientists in general, it is up around 40 percent. However, for the top scientists who are members of the National Academy of Sciences, it is only 7 percent. It's even less among the biologists, who know a lot more about the beginner's mistakes made in reasoning about evolution. James Watson, of DNA fame, says he personally knows only one biologist [this is likely Francis Collins] who still adheres to the majority's beliefs. [Charlie Rose TV interview, December 2005.]

        --author, Global Fever: How to Treat Climate Change (University of Chicago Press, April 2008).

        by wcalvin on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 11:34:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe I'll vote for a tie (4.00 / 2)

    Between 7 ("explain how A fish crawled out of the sea and evolved into a mammal with lungs without dying before he evolved." )  There's a man with a sound grasp of scientific method...not!
     and 5  ("I'm hoping you won't be like the others and we can have a nice two-way discussion were we each listen to the other persons....and that's my view and I don't really care to read yours.")  Don't tell me any facts! lalalalala, I'm not listening....

    I mean, choose either one, you can't go wrong. So why not choose both?

    War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

    by Margot on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:33:16 PM PDT

    •  So hard to even narrow it down to 5, much less 2 (4.00 / 4)

      But I'm going with #4.   Yours deserve it as much as #4 without a doubt (in fact how can we be expected to eliminate any of these from the island holy crap!)

      But there's just something very precious about me, as an evolution believing (um aren't we past the faith based part of evolution lol?) Christian, now being an Al Qaeda terorrist.

      That one has such special meaning for me.   What a turn of events.   2 hours ago in 2005 I was simply a very liberal Christian and now merely 2 hours later in 2006 I am an America hating Christian hating Jew hating deadly terrorist.

      I must say....that is one of the most incredible (and quick!) transformations I've ever encountered in myself or anyone else in this life.    Hell, I make Whiskey Hitchens transformation almost seem normal.

      •  Punctuated Equilibrium (4.00 / 8)

        You coast along for a few million years as a very liberal Christian then

        SLAMMO!! BAMMO!!

        You're an America hating Christian hating Jew hating deadly terrorist.

         

        We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

        by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:26:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I thought we are all (4.00 / 2)

          Jew-LOVING terrorists....

          Because everyone knows that the main difference between the ultra-extremist White Power Christian Fundies and Osama is that Osama is a "Jew Lover."

          congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

          by bartman on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:50:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oy!! (4.00 / 2)

            Sometimes yes, sometimes no...

            We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

            by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:55:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Jew-loving Islamofascist! n/t (none / 0)

          •  Don't laugh (none / 1)

            At my last job in a very wingnutty IT dept my cube-mate and I used to joke about those "atheistic Islamic extremists" as a little jab at the office fundies.  Not many people got the joke.

            Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

            by Event Horizon on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 09:56:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  What's truly funny about these idiots (none / 0)

            is the Jew-bashing.  Maybe they haven't read their Holy Bible well, because I do remember Jesus Christ being (gasp, horror!) a Jew, executed by his own.  People show this ridiculous hatred of Jews for everything from the Mel Gibson camp (they killed Jesus!) to the Adolf Hitler camp (they have all the money and power!) and they claim to be Christians.  May I also remind them that the first Christians were Jews as well, just that they simply believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.  Such simplemindedness is why we're going to hell as a nation.  People can't see beyond the yardsticks that the fundamentalists that are running this country set up for them.

            "In 10 years, I've never seen the press lay a glove on him." Chris Matthews on John McSame

            by wolverinethad on Mon Jan 02, 2006 at 08:37:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Just for Your Tag Line... (none / 0)

          You get a four from me...Bruce Coburn Rocks...

          Energy is neither created nor destroyed; it only changes form.

          by SME in Seattle on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 12:25:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  On 2nd thought (none / 1)

        I've gotta go with a tie.

        #4 has my vote....BUT

        #3 should not be slighted by its exclusion.

        As a Christian, I must say that there is something very special about a "Christian" calling for a repeat of the Holocaust.   Brilliant move there and so admirable in it's "Christianity".   I'm sure Jesus shed a tear of joy over that one.

        #4 = I'm a Christian Al Qaeda operative.
        #3 = The Holocaust was so fun the first time that as Christians we should well.....do that motherfucker again!

        Holy crap!

        Very very tough call so I'm gonna say that this one is definitely a tie in the race to the top of the world of delusional motherfuckers.

        Happy New Years everyone.

      •  #4 (none / 0)

        I have to vote for #4 because of it's deft merging of evolution with terrorism.  To the author I have to say "Well done, Patriot!"  You have "proven", in a mere four lines that support for scientific theory is blatently un-American!
      •  Yes, very quick change (none / 0)

        I must still have scales before my eyes, because you seem just the same nice thl lib to me.  But...I guess I'm one of those "haters" too...bummer.

        War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

        by Margot on Mon Jan 02, 2006 at 12:20:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Seven has my vote. (4.00 / 2)

      My IQ dropped a few points just reading it.

      I had to read some Hannah Arendt to undo the damage.  

      I still have the urge to watch Fox News, but it is manageable. Maybe some Rushdie will help.  

      http://homepage.mac.com/alfredo_tomato/Wheatpaste.html

      by alfredo on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 08:01:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm speechless.... (none / 1)

    do these quotes come from people from this community?

    "Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings."
    -Sam Harris

    •  Not (none / 0)

      as far as I know. These are collected from e-mails and IMs to me, chat rooms I'm in, or the Talk Origins Archives some of my geek homies man. Markos is awfully tolerant, but if it were up to me such remarks would be grounds for at least a one week suspension ;)

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:38:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  tolerance (1.50 / 2)

        is not one of your strong suits.

        I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

        by BiminiCat on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:41:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not Everything Deserves Tolerance (4.00 / 3)

          Willful ignorance has to make the list.

          We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

          by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:43:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  people have a right (none / 1)

            to be stupid.

            even in america.

            I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

            by BiminiCat on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:44:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Are We Required to Encourage Them?? (none / 1)

              Can we not exercise our Free Speech rights and call them stupid??

              BTW, which Amendment covers the "Right to be Stupid in Public"??

              We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

              by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:47:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The Right to be Stupid (none / 0)

              I suppose you mean they have the right to free speech, and surely they do...but they don't have the right to force Markos to publish their speech. If this were a government site, screening for stupidity would probably be wrong, but this is not. If Markos wanted to screen out all the posts that are provably false and he had no life, he could do it.

              OF course, that would be silly.

            •  nt (none / 0)

              "people have a right to be stupid.even in america."

              erm no.
              that's what criminal negligence is all about.

              We have no future because our present is too volatile. We only have risk management. The spinning of the given moments scenario. Pattern Recognition. ~W. Gibson

              by Silent Lurker on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 11:41:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  That's the problems with (4.00 / 2)

        us liberals sometimes.  We can be too fucking tolerant. I can tolerate a lot of things but ignorance of this magnitude horrifies me.
        •  Let me (4.00 / 8)

          clear something up before Bim rants on incoherently (This has nothing to do with you Calderonn, I'm just inserting it here for visibility): I'm not going to waste any time being overly polite to right wing nut jobs or pseudoscientific cranks of any political stripe. I'll bend over backwards to help someone if I judge they can indeed be helped, if they're young, sincerely looking for solid scientific information, and even if they want to have an honest debate. I've spent countless thousands of hours doing that. But if anyone is under the impression that I'm 'nice' or that I'm trying to pretend I'm 'nice'; they're totally mistaken. I have no desire to see these nitwits injured or imprisoned or even prevented from speaking their mind.

          But I'm not the least bit interested in being nice while the other guy tries to figure out how to portray me as the equivalent of Hitler or Osama or paint me or you or anyone who calls them on their bullshit as an immoral goat fucking agent of Satan. And here's some advice for Dems in general who counsel courtesy at all times: It's a nice sentiment. But come'n, you/we've been 'nice' and 'polite' and accomdating for five years by my count, what exactly has it it gotten you in return?

          Read UTI, your free thought forum

          by DarkSyde on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 11:59:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  idiots (4.00 / 2)

            Witnessed a conversation recently: one guy was saying that he wished in the debates, kerry had just socked bush with the truth because it would have stomped him.  another guy said, "Wow, Bob... here's the thing.  Have you ever actually tried to have a serious conversation with an idiot?  It can make you look REALLY bad.  It's like you just can't get AROUND it!"

            It's too true.

            I've never felt so stupid as when talking to someone who seemed emotionally invested in not seeing my point.

            But there's the rub.  I often thing that's just cause for getting rude and really sarcastic and mocking with them.  But the problem is that sometimes these people don't know that they're emotionally invested in not seeing my point.  

            So what do you do then?

            •  Never argue with an idiot. (4.00 / 2)

              They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

              I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? - Bill Hicks

              I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? - Bill Hicks

              by robworldinc on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 03:53:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yes! (none / 0)

            Bravo Dark !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I second that emotion.

            Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

            by wishingwell on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 03:42:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  A New Years' Resolution? (none / 1)

            If so, it's one we should all make. I'm taking it to heart even while typing. . .

            When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. -Benjamin Franklin

            by MissAnneThrope on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 05:58:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dude, (none / 0)

            I could not agree more.
      •  You are too kind... (none / 0)

        I recommend their genes be cleansed from the gene pool before there is any chance of reproduction.

        Energy is neither created nor destroyed; it only changes form.

        by SME in Seattle on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:44:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "turn or burn boys" (none / 1)

        trailer transcendence. Nice
    •  I find this "contest" very offensive (4.00 / 7)

      Kos and others here...

      I went to college with Stephen Jay Gould, and he was a long time friend of mine.  Yes, he died too young, but he accomplished much -- and this "contest" is disrespectful of what he really stood for in life.

      I was on the Alumni Board Committee at Antioch when we voted to award him the Horace Mann Lifetime Achivement Award -- which comes with the citation out of Mann's first Commencement Address in 1854 "Be Ashamed to Die until you have won some Victory for Humanity"  The idea of the award still sends shivers down the back of most alunmi.

      At the Awards dinner Stephen told me why he became a supporter of Bill Clinton.  He had been in Arkansas for a week testifying in one of the Creationism cases (he did all that pro bono), and his mug had been all over TV.  Finally his part in it all was over, and he went to the Airport to return to Boston.  Had to change planes in Chicago.  When he was airborne, along comes this big guy who takes a seat near him, thanking him for his testimony, and help.  But then Clinton quickly changed the subject -- he wanted to talk about mapping the Human Genome, and wanted Stephen's opinion about it all.  Gould was a bit shocked.  At that point the Genome project was just a plan, and not a single person outside the interested professions knew a thing about it.  But Clinton persisted in a two hour conversation with Gould on the topic -- in the process collecting a bibliography and list of names of scientists Gould thought were quite interested in the plan.  

      A few days later at Harvard, he met one of his collegues whom he had mentioned to Clinton, and told him he had given his name to the Arkansas Governor who might be running for President.  His Collegue shot back -- yea, I know you did, he called me the other night at bedtime, and kept me on the phone for two hours.  Stephen said he quickly reconstructed his list he had given Clinton, made some calls, and found about half of them had already been called.  

      If you want to give a Golden Gould -- give it to someone in a leadership position who advances the proper public or popular understanding of science, and forget this cutsie thing that just reduces what people who don't necessarily read science, know about Gould's life commitments.  

      •  Well, so much for a little fun. (none / 1)

        Sorry about that. For a minute there I was havin' the best laugh of the entire year. There I was just brazenly laughing my fucking ass off at some of these comments until I thought I'd fall off my chair. It sure was a welcomed change for me after spending most of the year sleeping with my fists clenched, if at all, and worrying constantly about what's happened to our nation and the world. Thanks for bringing me back down to reality.

        (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯) It's not too late!

        by nehark on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:32:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  well, darksyde, certainly... (4.00 / 3)

        ...isn't trying to be offensive or trying to demean gould in any way.

        did gould not have a sense of humor?

        interesting stuff in your post, btw, sara...  

      •  I Don't Think ANY Disrespect Was Intended (none / 1)

        And I don't think Gould would either.

        But I have been wrong.

        We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

        by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:38:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sara (4.00 / 13)

        I'm sorry you found it offensive. I also talked to SG a few times and read many of his books and articles. My take is that he had no loved lost for creationists whatsoever and he had a great sense of humor. The name and nature of the award was actually concieved by several old time Talk Origins contributors some time ago, many of them SG's peers in evolutionary biology. You understand now .... this isn't a real award, it's a slam on creationists ... capiche?

        Read UTI, your free thought forum

        by DarkSyde on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:51:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't, and I doubt Gould would either (4.00 / 2)

        nor are you correct that DarkSyde's post is disrespectful of Gould -- quite the contrary.  But I do appreciate your sharing the anecdote as your first post ... hopefully you'll share others without saving them up until you're offended by something.
      •  Scary (4.00 / 2)

        That story is truly scary; not being reminded of Clinton's penetrating mind, but being reminded of the difference between his and the current President's.

        Can anyone here even begin to imagine W holding his own in a conversation with a scientist for two hours?

        "Heh heh heh, why can't we just teach both sides?"
        ==============

        That idea of Chinese making faux fossils probably comes from the fossil pastiche passed off on National Geographic a few years ago.  They mixed and matched the remains of a couple of bird-like dinosaurs.

        •  no, they really make fake fossils (none / 0)

          They're sold as souveniers.  I bought one in a market in Hangzhou (about an hour by train from Shanghai).  It's very cool, looks genuine until you look really really closely (I needed a magnifying glass) and can make out some tiny bits of epoxy.

          China has been a paleontologist's dream for a while now - lots of interesting (real) fossil beds.  And a great source of fakes, too!  :)

          "Why, a child of five could figure this out! Someone fetch me a child of five." -Groucho Marx

          by kiwifruit on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 04:21:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Your comment (none / 0)

        made me love Bill Clinton all over again.  So brilliant.  So-oo brilliant.

        God I miss that man as President.

        •  So how again are we stuck with.... (none / 1)

          George W. Bush?

          With all the exceptional minds and outstanding critical thinkers, how is it we have George W. Bush as our  president.  It defies rational thought... but the reality is undeniable.
          I'm going to listen to Billy Collins and hope I'll wake up in the morning and it will all be a dream.
          Just some musings of a midlife mystic ;)

          Energy is neither created nor destroyed; it only changes form.

          by SME in Seattle on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 12:39:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  we live in an anti-intellectual culture (none / 1)

            "It defies rational thought"

            Whenever some makes that claim, I feel obliged to point out that it's arrogant to suppose that one has mastered rational thought.

          •  Ah, well, we are stuck with Bush because ... (none / 1)

            people are "too polite" to call others when they express stupid, ignorant, ill informed or directly misleading statements.

            We have a press corps(e), for instance, that not only suffers from short term memory lapses when interviewing subjects, but which also literally is incapable of connecting the dots from one day to another.

            Which means that persons such as Cheney, not feeling any particular urge to be polite or respectful at all, can have the times of their lives making up things and pretending they are true.

            With Sara's somewhat ramrod straight contribution, it appears we are in our last throes here.

            "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

            by SteinL on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 01:34:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ah, well, we are stuck with Bush because ... (none / 0)

            ... people are "too polite" to call others when they express stupid, ignorant, ill informed or directly misleading statements.

            We have a press corps(e), for instance, that not only suffers from short term memory lapses when interviewing subjects, but which also literally is incapable of connecting the dots from one day to another.

            Which means that persons such as Cheney, not feeling any particular urge to be polite or respectful at all, can have the times of their lives making up things and pretending they are true.

            With Sara's somewhat ramrod straight contribution, it appears we are in our last throes here.

            "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

            by SteinL on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 01:38:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  We know how we got stuck with Anti-Clinton (none / 0)

            Why do folks keep forgetting that Bush stole the election?

            The majority of Americans were not fooled and did not choose the idiot over the wonk. They defied SNL and the MSM and chose the boring wonkish guy. It was the press and the Supreme Court that put Bush in office, not the people.

        •  Yeah (none / 1)

          Where would we be without NAFTA or the advancement of corporatism? Certainly if those things never happened under clinton we would be a weaker country. (rolls eyes)

          "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

          by talex on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 08:35:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  graven images (none / 0)

        I worked for Gould's Core course in "The History of Life" when I was a graduate student in his department.  He hated it when people took pictures of him -- he was offended when he could be nothing more than a source of autographs to undergraduates who were less interested in the material than in his celebrity.

        On the other hand, when teaching, he was the biggest ham ever, and he loved posting promotional posters  distributed by the overseas hosts of his speech junkets.

        It was never clear which SJG we were going to see.  In other words, he might yet have been tickled by the attention.

        •  "What would Gould Think?" (none / 0)

          My objection has relatively little to do with trying to interpret the "inner Gould" to you -- it has a lot more to do with what I think he stood for, what he did with his life, and why I think cutsie stuff about someone who was a serious actor in what I assume you care about -- namely good science, sans religion, delivered in High School Biology classes in a comprehendable manner.  

          During all the years Gould was active on the "Testifying Circuit" all too many of his collegues who had just as grand credentials as Stephen had, were more than willing to stay back, and let Stephen be the Public Scholar, and go to Arkansas to be cross examined for days at a time as the "Expert witness" by the fundi's lawyers -- and then take all the flack that came with that role -- some of it not so nice.  Stephen and I have at least two common friends who died at the hands of racial fundi's in the civil rights era, and another one who spent months on Georgia's death row for "treason against the State of Georgia" -- it took months to get into the appeals court to get her free.  Taking stands and going into enemy territory to do it is a risk -- it is not without costs.  But if you have assets that will "make things better"  (Win a little victory for Humanity) then you should try to do it.  And yes, humor is fine but not at the expense of the core message.  The "Public Scholar" contribution the guy made was to lay the testimony that got the good Supreme Court decision on Creationism.  And now that the fundi's have come back with "Intelligent Design" it is Stephen's testimony on which the PA Judge stood in the Dover case when he opined that ID is little more than warmed over creationism.  Of course now that Stephen is gone -- others have to step up to the plate and do the testifying as expert witnesses.  But he set the standard.  

          Stephen and I were in college at the time the Interstate Highway System was being constructed, and somehow he got a contact in the construction ovvice so he could find out when the machinery blasted through some formation, revealing layers of fossil "evidence".  Rain, snow, mud season or whatever, we would be off with our little hammars to work a new cut on I 70 or I 75, perhaps ten little extremely radical progressive Antiochians in ponchos, hammaring away at this or that layer of sediment all under Gould's leadership.  Of course we made it fun -- lunch in some of the most out of the way rural Ohio roadhouses you can imagine for some very muddy radical student types very interested in the sediment layers -- usually the ones just below what had been revealed by the bulldozers.  (The Locals always thought we were looking for either gold or oil.)  Naah, we were just classifying the fossil record strate by strata in SW Ohio.  And it was fun.  It was science, and it did not involve directly putting anyone (who might be educated) down.  

          I too think the nearly incomprehensable statements pretty sad, especially if they came from persons who perhaps had been exposed to a geology or biology class.  What I read was not statements from people who had been well taught, or had done their homework and actually read the textbook, but instead I saw third rate efforts to parrot something they had heard someplace, well maybe, maybe not, anyhow.  (Oh yea, on Rush Limbaugh).  Why dignify that?  It is pathetic, not funny.  One does not laugh at mental cripples when they are in fact not brain impaired.    

          •  I hear you (none / 0)

            I only wished to point out my (potential) objection to the original post, that calling an award after Gould might or might not have made him happy.

            I know that an award associating my name with undignified statements reflecting little about objective science and its practitioner's myriad acheivements, and more about the depths of human ignorance, would probably make me cry.

            He was an amazing man, and I really miss him.

  •  Some of these are really disturbing (4.00 / 2)

    Especially #3. People that think and act that way almost make me think there is no such thing as evolution only ID, Idiot Denial.

    I'm really torn between voting for #2 and #10.  The Chinese factories is a great laugh, but why should they be concerned if they are willing to shop at Wal-Mart and buy everything else that comes from China why not fossils.

    So, I will have to vote for #2, because it has the most pseudo-science aspect, which is something Gould would appreciate. I wonder what their explanation would be for the lack of any plant DNA in mammals that eat only plants.

  •  Turn or Burn! (4.00 / 2)

    #7 has the corner on logical thinking. He gets my vote.

    Wherefore do ye toil; is it not that ye may live and be happy? And if ye toil only that ye may toil more, when shall happiness find you?

    by keefer55 on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:37:58 PM PDT

  •  Gotta Go With #5 (4.00 / 11)

    Although I'll admit an inability to explain the mysterious Carribean Explosion. Isn't that where 4 tropical drinks suddenly produced 1,287 variations??

    We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

    by The Baculum King on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:39:39 PM PDT

  •  #5 (none / 1)

    Too funny . . . in a sad way, that is.
  •  You're killing me (none / 1)

    I have to choose just one?  I pick #10 just because it's so absurd.  Fossils made in China?  Priceless.

    McCain: Less jobs, more war.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:41:24 PM PDT

    •  HELL-LOW PEOPLE.... (4.00 / 8)

      Lets get this straight right here and now..God didn't create dinosaurs, he only created fossils...just to fuck with us.

      Change?? Hell I want a revolution!!

      by quiet in NC on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:12:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting background (none / 0)

      Perhaps unsurprisingly, there is a fragment of truth behind this story, as with all of their crap pseudoscience; just enough to intimidate the uninformed and satisfy a desire to feel 'fair and balanced.'

      'The fossil appeared in National Geographic magazine after failed attempts to publish it in both Nature and Science. But it was subsequently found to be a forged composite from different species (see Nature 410, 539; 2001), put together in China to resemble a 'missing link' between dinosaurs and birds. It was returned there in 2000, and segments later generated scientific papers by Chinese authors and by Stephen Czerkas.'

      So QED- China is a mass producer of plastic fossils to fool the liberal scientists.

      "Laugh while you can, monkey-boy" - Emilio Lizardo

      by jeno mules on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 01:55:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What a difficult choice! (4.00 / 2)

    My first choice - #2

    If you need a tie-breaker or two, then I'll take them in this order: #9, #10, and #4.

    What a bunch of morons.

    A ship adrift in a sea of rhetoric & recycled clichés.

    by Terre on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:42:02 PM PDT

  •  I Vote #4... (4.00 / 3)

    If nothing else this guy proves the theory of "De-Evolution!
    DEVO Rules!  Happy New Year!

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on