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This wasn't supposed to happen yesterday. We weren't supposed to be talking about this today. Weren't we supposed to be talking about Hillary Clinton dropping out and "Hillary leaving for the good of the party"?

Whoops... I guess the media once again declared Hillary dead before she came roaring back to life. (Follow me after the flip for more on last night's stunner...)

So what really happened yesterday? How did Hillary pull off a real miracle? Well, let's take a look behind the wins and see the real numbers.

Take a look at Rhode Island. See how the women stood with Hillary? Take a look at Ohio. See how blue-collar "lunch bunket Democrats" rallied to Hillary's side? Take a look at Texas. See how Latinos stuck with the one and only "Hilaria"?

Come on, everyone! We're looking at the very coalition we need to win this fall! Latinos. Women. Blue-collar workers. These are the people we need to vote for our Democratic nominee en masse if we want to take back the White House this fall. And who's been working hard this whole year to make sure these folks vote Democratic this year? Hillary is!

Who's been talking about the real issues that our voters care about? Hillary has. Who's always been fighting for quality, affordable health care for all Americans? Hillary has. Who's ready to implement an economic recovery plan to help working families get back on their feet? Hillary is. Who's proposed an energy plan that will actually do something to solve the climate crisis and make our nation energy independent? Hillary has. And who's ready to end the Bush-Cheney era of "cowboy diplomacy" by hitting Mccain on national security... And winning? Hillary is.

So there you have it. This is why Hillary made her remarkable comeback last night, and this is why Hillary may very well keep fighting all the way to the White House next year. The polls now show Hillary gaining momentum. The primary is still far from over. Hillary made her comeback, and all the pundits predicting her ultimate demise today are now being forced to eat crow.

So what can we all do to help Hillary stay competitive in the upcoming primary states? We can contribute to ensure that Hillary has all the necessary resources to stay in this fight for us. We can volunteer to ensure that Hillary has the manpower AND the womanpower to keep winning all these important states. We can get active and stay active so that Hillary knows we have her back. Today may be a great day for celebration, but let's also remember that we have a long road ahead of us to get to Denver this summer... And ultimately, to get to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. next January.

So come on, let's do it! I'm sure we made a special someone originally from Texas prod last night. Let's make this entire nation proud again by helping Hillary become our comeback champion.

:-)

Originally posted to atdnext on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:30 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Clinton/Obama 08! (10+ / 0-)

    You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

    by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:29:42 PM PST

    •  I may vomit. He doesn't NEED her! (8+ / 0-)

      She's fooling herself and hoping we'll go along with her.  I'm not that stupid, sorry.

      •  Part of the proud 10%... (3+ / 0-)

        congratualations...

        Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:31:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  How much did Gore lose by? (6+ / 0-)

          You need my 10%.  If she's the nominee, she'll have to win without my support.

          •  Obama would need the Pew Research... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            coigue, anna shane, Psychotronicman

            20% he would lose of Hillary supporters if he is nominated...so stalemate...if they join together the amount would be down to 2% - 3%

            Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

            by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

              All the Hillbots I've spoken to have said they would vote for Obama.  But the Obamaphiles are running 2 to 1 in the other direction.

              •  every Californian I know (0+ / 0-)

                except one voted for Obama....see how personal experience lives up to reality?

                You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

                by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:44:12 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  So why did Obama... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  macmcd

                  lose CA

                  Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                  by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:49:17 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That is my point, exactly. (0+ / 0-)

                    You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

                    by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:53:13 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Because of early voting (0+ / 0-)

                    I'd bet he won the votes on that day!

                    •  So just the opposite happened in TX... (0+ / 0-)

                      what is your point...

                      Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                      by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:59:16 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  One of the things that everyone seems to forget! (0+ / 0-)

                      Remember John Edwards? He was in the race until just before California voted.

                      Everyone who voted early for him basically lost their vote.

                      Furthermore, weren't Biden, Kucinich and Dodd still on the early ballot for California (correct me if I'm wrong on this point)?

                      What would the result have been if there was no early voting?

                      :-)

                    •  I'll take your bet. (0+ / 0-)

                      The CNN exit polling showed that, of those who made up their mind during the 72 hours prior to the election, Hillary got 61%.

                      •  In California? (0+ / 0-)

                        My thoughts are that in California, Hillary was ahead in early voting and then as people got to know Obama, they switched to Obama. . .He had a small lead in Super Tuesday day votes.

                        In Texas, Obama was leading in early votes and then with the 3:00, NAFTA, his failure to responde etc. more people voted for Hillary on March 4.

                        As an Obama supporter, I would say that the difference is that when people got to know him they liked him but that he is suseptible to unfair attacks and he needs to stand up for himself and if he doesn't the electorate will vote with the fearmongerer.

                        So yes, dvogel, I think they were the opposite--I was just trying to answer your original question.

                  •  Because a lot more people voted than (0+ / 0-)

                    are personally known to the author of this comment.

                    Which is the point, after all.  The fact that SicPluris  knows a handful of Californians who would rather have 100 years of war than vote for a candidate who's policy positions are nearly identical to their candidate's policy positions is no indication at all that Hillary wouldn't pick up 99.99% of the Obama voters, including all of those who actually care about policy, rather than a cult of personality.

                •  I am guessing you do not know the right (0+ / 0-)

                  prople in California.  All of my California friends voted for Hillary and expect to vote for her when she runs against McCain in the GE.  

                  The soul is not the ego in drag. Ken Wilber

                  by macmcd on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:40:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It was an illustration (0+ / 0-)

                    of how those you know are NOT necessarily indicative of demographic trends.

                    You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

                    by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:56:01 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Therein Lies The Myth Of Obama Bringing Together (3+ / 0-)

                I remember he saying that Hillary won't get his voters.  What a balony statement to make.  That isn't bringing the party together, it's taking your marbles and going home.  We'll win with or without his voters.

                •  take it from the boots ont he ground (0+ / 0-)

                  Go read streetprophets.

                  excellent post up there about texas.

                  Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                  by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:45:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  will they vote (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lying eyes, Psychotronicman

                  if she invited him onto the ticket? She's calling for party unity and signaling she would, he's calling for 'give it to me now, and hurry up about it' and he's not calling for party unity and signaling that he would not ask her onto his ticket. Now, who would King Solomon choose?  

                  •  She won't be doing any inviting, dear (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Dagoril, crankyinNYC

                    You need a nice cup of tea.

                    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

                    by bumblebums on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:55:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  No, we won't. No ticket with Hillary (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Dagoril

                    will get my vote.

                  •  Excellent Point (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    anna shane

                    She is the true uniter.

                    •  You're kidding, right? (0+ / 0-)

                      She is one of the most divisive people in modern Dem politics. The reason people get so inflamed around here is that -- unlike Obama -- people are outraged over her nasty, negative, dismissive nonsense about her opponent and non-Hillary voters.

                      Some people will vote for her if this scorch-the-earth succeeds, but a big chunk will not.

                      "Real uniter"?!? Jeez. Talk about kool-aid.

                      •  Only 10% of Obama supporters... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Psychotronicman

                        would vote for McCain if Hillary wins the nomination but 20% of Hillary supporters would vote for McCain if Barack is the nominee...hmmm food for thought

                        http://people-press.org/...

                        Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                        by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:27:45 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  People Are So Outraged (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        anna shane

                        That nearly 3 million voted for her last night, and handed her victories in 3 our of 4 contests.  She is the one who is talking about party unity now; unifying the ticket.  That's what I mean by 'uniter'

                        •  Can't play it that way (0+ / 0-)

                          You can't lie and slime your opponent and his potential fans for weeks, dismissing millions of voaters for months, then all of a sudden say "let's play nice now". Doesn't work. I don't care how many people voted in Texas, Hillary has done a lot of damage to Dem prospects (hers and the other tickets) in November. Repairing this is going to take a lot more than "Oopsie! Sorry about that knife."

                          •  Now You Want To Dismiss The Voters (0+ / 0-)

                            People are voting for Hillary in droves, and you want to dismiss them.  She wants to pull the party together, and evidently, you want to pull it apart.  Her campaign hasn't been any worse than any other campaign, you just keep reading things that arein't there, spinning every little nuance.  BHO has been just as bad, just as dishonest and just as slimy.  That's politics.  Know what Harry Truman said; if you can't take the heat...

                          •  That's a lie. (0+ / 0-)

                            She wants to pull the party together,

                            McCain has experience, she has experience, and Obama has a speech -- that was her line.  Way to pull the party together -- if you mean the REPUBLICAN Party.

                            BHO has been just as bad, just as dishonest and just as slimy.

                            I call bullshit.  Provide evidence.

                            -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                            by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:55:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Once Again For the English Challenged (0+ / 0-)

                            She was talking about facing McCain in the GE, not endorsing him.  All of your 'evidence' is spin, distortion and BS.

                          •  And just how would you have (0+ / 0-)

                            those of us who have supported the Most Admired Woman in America after Obama's supporters have called her "divisive" because Rush Limbaugh has been bashing her for 20 years, or a "liar" because they say they believe no Rose Law firm files could be misplaced by someone in her office.   You want us to simply forgive the assertion that anyone makes a comparison to Jesse Jackson is a bigot.   You say we should turn the other cheek after Obama's folks called us liars for asserting that there may actually be something to the reports that Obama's campaign operatives met with the Canadians and left them with the impression that he assured them he would not follow through on the anti-NAFTA rhetoric he espoused in Ohio.

                            And I say you're right.  If Obama wins, we SHOULD forgive all of those insults, slurs and campaign positions.  Because at the end of the day, the very slight policy differences between Hillary and Obama are  tiny compared to the imperative of stopping a war, defending the Constitution, providing access to health care, and electing Democrats.

                            I've been through a dozen primary elections.  The "mudslinging" in this one is nothing like "Dump-the-Hump" or a thousand other transgressions.    Many times, the disappointment and heartbreak of seeing your champion were insurmountable.  So we got Richard Nixon.  Do you you want to know what "vile" and "odious" look like?   http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/...

                  •  OBAMA/CLARK (0+ / 0-)

                    Please, choose someone who hasn't run such a wreck of a campaign.

                    Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                    by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:43:05 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Clark is with her (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RisingTide

                      he's one of her huge number of retired military officers who want a competent commander in chief who won't start wars willy nilly and casually wreck the entire world.  

                      •  that is my fucking point, lady. (0+ / 0-)

                        if you must pick someone from the 'other side', pick the competent one.

                        Clark's da man for that.

                        Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                        by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:57:20 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  do you think obama will do any of that? (0+ / 0-)

                        if you do... I question your sanity.

                        answer me this:

                        which of the candidates is talking with Iran?
                        Which of the candidates is talking with Cuba?

                        Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                        by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:58:15 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Obama knows best? (0+ / 0-)

                          I'd say he knows least but hey, not everyone agrees with me and the millions who voted for her and the thousands who are on her team, supporting her, endorsing her.  Some think he knows best.  Some think knowing least is knowing best. He thinks neither of them know much. go figure.

                          •  answer my questions, lady (0+ / 0-)

                            if you're a lady, and can bide by the rules of civil discourse.

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:05:44 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  or else? (0+ / 0-)

                            you're soooo funny.  

                          •  humor aside, the questions still stand unanswered (0+ / 0-)

                            ... the cheese stands alone?

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:16:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  cause I didn't (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RisingTide

                            answer that tired stuff that he's saying? what to know what's new, he'll turn is nose up higher? but, hey he said he's looking forward to the foreign policy debate, she'll do another debate if he wants to, she asked for more, Maybe someone will ask him about private armies guarding American oil interests in Iraq? That should be fascinating. i vote for more debates, care to join me?  He can ask her that tired stuff again if there isn't anything else, and he'll have time to memorize names of world leaders.  Should be fun.  

                          •  because you didn't answer the questions I asked. (0+ / 0-)

                            you know, the ones about:
                            which candidate is talking to Iran?
                            Which candidate is talking to Cuba?

                            feel free to keep thinking that blue collar voters will win hillary the election -- the money ain't there, from what I've seen.

                            I'll vote for more debates, anytime, anywhere! Hillary's better on her feet than obama is, anyday, and she deserves the time to show it.

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:28:31 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  so you want to hear them debate again? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RisingTide

                            yes or no, and if it's no you'll be admitting he can't defend himself.  

                          •  Sure do. Will you answer my question now? (0+ / 0-)

                            The proof is in the pudding, and if Obama can't handle a situation where he is weak, then he doesn't deserve to be president.

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:26:52 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  actually don't bother answering it. (0+ / 0-)

                            both clinton and obama are busy talking with Iran about Iraq (because we can't just abandon it -- and they've got a vested interest in keeping Iraq from getting messy).

                            same thing with cuba.

                            they arent' really all that different, national security wise.

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:56:07 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  they are in one imporant place (0+ / 0-)

                            she's for outlawing private armies and voiding Bush's no bid contracts to open to foreign investors, who'll then have their own financial stake in Iraq, and he's cosponsored a bill to put them under military law. Until he says what she says, they'll be a huge difference.  

                      •  word on the street... (0+ / 0-)

                        says that he's thinking of switching his endorsement...

                        Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                        by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:09:47 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •  His voters being Dems and the oh so sought after (2+ / 0-)

                  independents and even chewing into the republicans. If Clinton is the nominee see the independents alone go bye-bye and watch McCain become president.

                  Sarcasm: It beats killing people...

                  by Dreggas on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:54:17 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  actually you wont win with either (2+ / 0-)

                  hillary can not win the general

                  Please explain how she can win with mccain winning the entire upper midwest... wisconsin, minnesota, iowa and illinois

                •  No, you won't. (0+ / 0-)

                  I won't vote for her under any circumstances.  And from the number of disgusted Dems I see on here today, that's not a minority opinion.

              •  Fuck that! I have previously stated (7+ / 0-)

                that I would vote for Obama, but it's arrogant comments like yours (and many other Obama supporters), that take my vote for granted while boasting they would not vote for Hillary, that makes me seriously re-consider.  What you're implying is that it's perfectly fine for Obama supporters to not vote for Hillary, because Hillary voters will vote for Obama.

                Such arrogance.  Good luck with that assumption.

                It doesn't take many words to tell the truth.

                by Gabriele Droz on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:45:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  fuck that indeed (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  neroden, anna shane, JustJennifer

                  anyone who won't vote for the democrat in this pivotal election...

                  Deserves to find a gulag for himself! (this is a joke, warning, this is just a joke.)

                  Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                  by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:46:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'll vote for a Dem. Just not Hillary. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    EntrWriter, Dagoril

                    She's not a Democrat anymore.  Not after the last couple of days.

                    •  she will do the job. she will free our military (0+ / 0-)

                      take back our civil service.

                      and those are her damn job, if she gets to be president.

                      don't say you won't vote for her -- I don't believe you, anyhow. you wouldn't be on this site if you didn't care.

                      Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                      by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:10:47 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You can care (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

                        You can care and not compromise your core principles and for many here that means you don't shit on a fellow Democrat.

                        I will not hold my nose and vote for someone so vile and obviously many others feel the same way.

                        •  I do not believe you... would vote for McCain (0+ / 0-)

                          I believe you will be around In November, and if Hillary has the nomination, you will vote for her. Maybe then go and campaign against someone you know is in her pocket, but vote for her.

                          The Republican Party is riding on your vote. You can vote to demolish its current coalition, or you can vote to support it.

                          Myself, i'd rather have a choice in voting again.

                          GIVE ME THE DAMN REPUBLICAN PARTY BACK, GODNABIT!

                          Solutions first, parties second.

                          Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                          by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:39:38 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't know me (0+ / 0-)

                            You can believe that I will vote for HRC all you want, but you don't know me.

                            I will, however, give you an example of something.  There sat Stephanie Tubbs-Jones on the Democratic Primary ballot in Ohio running unopposed.

                            I left my ballot blank in that spot. If she is the nominee, I will do the same thing on my ballot.  Why is that so unfathomable to some of you that some people out there are willing to stand up on the basis of principle.

                            It's obvious that she can't win the nomination based on pledged delegates.  The only way for her to win is through chicanery or backdoor deals. If that indeed happens, the Democratic Party gets what it deserves.  In this case a wounded HRC.

                            As for me, I begin a petition to get NYC's Bloomberg to launch his independent campaign and begin a third party that I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

                          •  You're right, I don't know you. But I do know I (0+ / 0-)

                            voted Republican last election. ;-) So did most dems responding to that open thread, in my city.

                            I understand principle. I also understand that duty comes first, and that a whole lot of hurt is coming on this country, and if we don't get her out of this tailspin...

                            bye bye democracy (potentially. let the derivatives die, and see what kind of global market we have then. last step on the way to global market collapse is US Gov't).

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:02:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I am worried to death about this country (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            neroden

                            in so many ways.

                            Principles that I have on the line include:
                            Civil Service
                            Professional Military
                            Sound Economic Statistics (bring back the M3!)
                            Constitutional Rights
                            Freedom to Choose the Best Candidate.

                            The list goes on.

                            I has principles. They is big fluffy and good to snooze on.

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:03:56 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Glad you can (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm glad you can sleep on your principles, but I wouldn't sleep knowing that I sold mine out.

                          •  keep on sleeping with the RIAA then... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            neroden

                            party unity indeed.

                            Did I mention how much I hate coalition politics recently?

                            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:29:20 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  What a childish (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          anna shane

                          comment.

                          You are obviously very very young to make such a comment.  Clearly too young to know anyone who is, actually, somewhat vile, or worse.

                          It indicates that you have never been a part of a primary that required you to put a coalition back together in order to advance shared policy goals.

                          It indicates that you have fallen into the trap of convincing yourself that your candidate's virtues are obvious to all and that, therefore, only the villanous and evil could oppose you.

                          It indicates that you are so certain that you are correct, that everyone on the planet must be able to see the truth of your position, so that only those who are lying oppose it.

                          After you have been around the track a few times you may, if you have some introspection and sell examination, come to understand that there are almost no liars in politics; people sincerely believe different things.   Usually they have a different view of some fact or another; sometimes they are advocating a position with nuance that you do not endorse, so that their statement is, in your mind, not accurate.   Frankly, I don't know just what view of the facts Obama has that allows him to say that there was no meeting between his staff and the Canadian government during which the Canadians honestly came to the conclusion that Obama did not intend to alter NAFTA --- frankly, this looks like a slam dunk lie to me --- but I've been around long enough to know that he probably has some interpretation of the facts that allows him to say his statements are true.

                          I don't know what evidence anyone thinks they have for the outrageous statements they make about Hillary.  Some believe it is impossible to lose a file in one's office, with the result that they label her "liar" over her statements regarding the Rose Law Firm billing records.  No evidence that she even made a statement that was inaccurate, let alone dishonest, but they hate Hillary so they label her "liar."  Some seem determined to believe that she knows Vince Foster didn't commit suicide and say she's dishonest for that, although I have never even seen what statement they think is false.  And so on and so on.

                          Someday you will discover that not everyone who stands in the way of your candidate is "vile" or "evil."  Someday you will discover that not every reference to Jesse Jackson is a racial slur. (I've never understood any explanation for why this accusation can be made by people who are not bigots or liars, but I trust that there is such an explanation, because some sincere people seem to think this.)

                          Someday, I fear you will encounter a truly vile person.   And if you are intuitive and introspective, you will remember your comments about Hillary and be embarrassed.

                      •  I care for the country. Not her hubris. (0+ / 0-)

                        If she gets the nom, GBCW.  She'll have to get the presidency without my assistance.

                        •  you have a duty to vote for the best President (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          neroden

                          if you don't do your duty, how the fuck can you care about anything?

                          take some damn responsibility, folks.

                          Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                          by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:37:23 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Your statements are inconsistent (0+ / 0-)

                          because if you cared about the country, and you wanted it to get out of its war, provide health care to its citizens, spread the tax burden in a progressive way over all of those who benefit from government, then you would want to see a president who advocated all of those policies, just as Barack does.

                          But you say no.  If it isn't your guy, then Goodbye Cruel World . . . .

                          Obamatoids keep talking about huberis, as if anyone who was willing to put themselves through a two year campaign to become president could possibly escape that definition.  Presumably, what they mean is that only an incredible ego and self-promoter could put themselves in Obama's path to the White House, as if their guy was just a self-effacing modest guy who felt like three years after the State Senate was long enough to wait to be President, if you happen to have God's warm smile illuminating your path.

                          There isn't any reason to talk about one candidate having "hubris."  I can't think of one single actor on the world stage that has less than a full load of hubris.

                          •  No, Hillary has consistantly put her need for (0+ / 0-)

                            power and position above the needs of the nation.  AUMF, Kyl-Lieberman, and Clusterbombs for the Kiddies are just a few of the areas where she has demonstrated a total lack of good judgement.  Her campaign unfavorably resembles a train wreck, and her supporters are at each others' throats.  The only reason she's still driving forward is this unquenchable desire for control.  It has led her to Corruption (Tree and Hsu) and worse.  

                            So pardon me if I don't consider her and Obama, who has made a point of transparency, in the same light.  I came for a revolution, not a restoration.

                •  Didn't you just GBCW? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Christin, Dagoril
                •  and i'm an ambivalent obama supporter (2+ / 0-)

                  so there.
                  if hillary had managed to NOT ruin the sure thing she had going, i'd have supported her, and cheerfully too.

                  now that she has shown how incompetent her campaign has been... i'd be saddened (but would still be hopeful to see clark as veep hope hope)

                  Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                  by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:47:47 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  they can count on us (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Gabriele Droz, Psychotronicman

                  but there are many who don't fear a McCain presidency and fear Obama will screw things up and they're the ones that account for the 20%. I also fear Obama would screw things up, to me he's just another fathead, but I fear McCain and so I'd vote for Barack.  

              •  Loyal Democrats. HA! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lying eyes, NewHampster

                The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

                by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:45:35 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  That is not what the Pew Poll says (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                anna shane

                http://people-press.org/...

                Speaking to friends is one thing...scientific polling is reality based...

                Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:48:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  That Pew poll scares me.... (0+ / 0-)

                  Obama's lead in head-to-heads is 2 points greater, and he does better among Republicans and Independents.

                  That bodes substantially better for 'battleground' states.

                  Plus, Hillary's bigger lead among Democrats depends on turnout.  Who has the turnout machine?  OBAMA.

                  Hillary's not in good shape for the general compared to Obama.

                  -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                  by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:02:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Please refrain... (0+ / 0-)

                from name calling...just your opinions would be fine...

                Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:50:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  voting for obama (0+ / 0-)

                This is one Hillary supporter that will not vote for Obama...sorry...he just doesn't make the grade

            •  Sorry (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

              But those of us who disapprove of her tactics actually have principles.  She believes she can win the nomination and not have to worry about wooing back Obama supporters?  I think not. Even WITH an Obama endorsement - in the unlikely event that he's not the nominee - she doesn't get my vote.

          •  You'd rather lose our military???Our CivilService (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mikepridmore

            ???

            What possible reason would you have to elect another NeoCon???

            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

            by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:44:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  1 vote. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            It was 4 to 5.

            The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

            by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:44:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Okay. Will do. (0+ / 0-)
      •  There will be no "dream ticket", (4+ / 0-)

        IMO.

        Why would Obama run as VP with Hillary?  In order for that to happen, Hillary would have to upset the delegate count, the popular vote, and overcome an incredible sense of a stolen nomination.

        No, if Hillary were theoretically the nominee -- which she won't be -- Hillary's on her own.  Hope she can find a decent VP -- there are a lot of great Democrats out there.  Just won't be Barack Obama.

        And it would be unlikely for Obama to select Hillary Clinton at VP.  What does she bring to the table?  New York?  California?  Huh?  She brings nothing that I can make out.

        When the dust settles, Obama will be the nominee, Hillary will be in the Senate, and that will be that.

        To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

        by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:41:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Big Tent Democrat (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tamens, anna shane

          over at Talk Left disagrees with you.

          I DO think that Obama would not choose Hil as VP, but the other way around might work.

          You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

          by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:45:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Armando's gone around the bend (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dagoril, a wolf raised by boys

            Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

            by bumblebums on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:57:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  because she's big (0+ / 0-)

            doesn't hold grudges, genuinely appreciates what he's done and she likes him. Just cause she chews him out and gives him reality checks doesn't mean she dislikes him.  He's a go for broke player, and that's why the super-delegates will be forced to choose her, she's responsible and he hasn't shown responsibility in this campaign. His health care plan would not be the platform plan. His willingness to keep private armies guarding American oil interests in Iraq would not be the Democratic party platform.   His use of pug points in misrepresenting her may work for Chicago democrats, but it's not our party values, we're not the game the system party, we have the majority of Americans, we don't need to cheat to win.  That's why she wins the  majority of working class Democrats, which is most of us.  

            •  You assume Obama is okay with (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

              The Vice-Presidential slot.  Thatt is merely a matter of big-hearted Hillary liking Barack enough to offer him the VP job.

              Wow.  Just wow.

              The error in your thinking is that VP is some kind of great job that Obama is salivating over.  It's not.  VP is a sucky job.  How many VPs have been elected President since 1900?  

              Besides, you argue that Obama does not share your values.  Why would you want him at VP anyway?  You need someone at VP that shares your values, I promise you.

              To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

              by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:09:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  by then the war will be over (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Psychotronicman

                and he'll have 8 years to learn stuff. I like the man, I'd love to see him living in Dick Cheney's house.  I think he's got a cool family, I like Michelle and the kids are darling.  He's a bright guy and he's done a great service to the party, he's energized the campaign, he's forced HIllary to come out and show us all how cool she is, and she was reluctant, being too careful.  He's got a lot of positives as far as I'm concerned, and the mistakes he's made are mistakes of a new guy, he can learn.  I don't revere politicians, I like to see them work for their paychecks.  I'm also glad about Edwards, he really forced the populist message, which I think is cool and Democrat.  Because of Obama no one will say that Hillary didn't have to work for the job, he's put that myth to rest.  He's tested her and that's a good thing.  She's also tested him.  It's all good.  

                •  Ya think? (0+ / 0-)

                  Frankly, what's Hillary's plan to get out?...

                  -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                  by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:59:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  thanks for asking (0+ / 0-)

                    (1) demand a logistical plan to account for everything and everyone, and how to move them without leaving ourselves open to attack. That includes all Americans and all Iraqis who have helped us.  

                    (2) outlaw private armies and let American business interests there know their contracts will be voided and they have no economic stake in iraq and they  will need to leave.  

                    (2) Gather an international forum of Iraq's neighbors, and any interested nation and open up those no-bid contracts so that other countries can invest in peace and stability there, and tell them we're leaving and when, and if they want to do something while we're leaving fine and if they don't that's fine too.

                    (3) Get out, turn over bases as they're emptied, keep only one embassy, guarded by marines,

                    (4) she expects there will be an uptick in the civil war, but she sees occupation as a violence that has no end, and their own civil was as violence with an end.  

                    What's his plan? (Hint: we'll get out as carefully as we went in carelessly)  

              •  Seven vice Presidents (after 1900) have (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coigue, neroden

                been promoted:
                Theodore Roosevelt
                Coolige
                Truman
                Nixon
                Johnson
                Ford (only one who didn't win election to own term)
                Bush

                while 14 have not.

                Can you tell me any other characteristic that gets you a 1 in 3 chance of becoming president?

                Turn it around the other way, 7 of the Presidents who served after 1901 had been VP, while 10 had not.  Can you name any other achievement or office that gives you a 1 in 100 chance of becoming president or any other characteristic that more than 7 of the 10 achieved?

                As a result, I think anyone with any presidential ambitions would be nuts to turn it down.

              •  silly silly comment. (0+ / 0-)

                truly silly.

                You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

                by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:48:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  She's tainted. He doesn't need her stink on him. (1+ / 2-)
              Recommended by:
              Christin
              Hidden by:
              coigue, anna shane
              •  you can do better than a one liner (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LynneK

                not worthy of TRing, but try HARDER!

                Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

                by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:21:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Fact is, he does. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ahianne

                Having the most admired woman in the world on your ticket would improve any ticket.  The Gallup Poll's list of "Most Admired Man" and "Most Admired Woman" has no other person who has topped their gender 12 times, as Hillary has done.   http://www.gallup.com/...

                Having the person who has had the most people vote for her for the Democratic nomination would be a big plus (only if you decide that Florida and Michigan's voters should be not be counted does Obama have more people voting for him than Hillary has.

                Having the person who, no matter how you slice it and who you disenfranchise, has more Democrats vote for her  for the Democratic nomination should be a big plus.

                In fact, only if you just hate Hillary can you come up with such a silly statement as "he doesn't need her".    

                Now, obviously, something very very close to half of the people who voted in the primaries are going to be heartbroken when their candidate loses this race.  I'm not sure whose cause you seek to advance when you make this kind of statement.  I really don't think John McCain deserves you help.

            •  Clinton doesnt hold grudges?? (0+ / 0-)

              someone's out of step with reality.

              clinton holds grudges. they tend to mean you don't get invited to parties.

              Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

              by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:21:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  How does Hillary get to "the other way around?" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

            I mean, Hillary cannot overcome Obama's delegate lead ever.  It's swiftly becoming mathematically impossible.

            So, her only "hope" is to deadlock the convention and hold out and hold out, and by some miracle the delegates just eventually throw up their hands and say, "we have to do what Hillary asks us to do."  

            And to get to this point, Hillary will have to continue her current swath of destruction through the Democratic Party all the way from now until the end of August -- 6 more long months of Hillary nastiness, lies, and pus?

            Now, let's assume this exact scenario plays out, and Hillary is given the nomination.

            You think a "Big Tent" argument is going to persuade Obama to save her butt?  You think Michelle is going to  go for it?  

            Big Tent argument?  Maybe.  But highly, highly unlikely, IMO.

            Hill will probably find herself on her own with her current batch of backers and with a massively disappointed Obama base.  Best of luck with that, girl.

            I mean, the only hope Hillary would have is if Obama accepted second fiddle.  I just think the odds would be against it after you connect the dots as to how Hillary could possibly become the nominee.

            To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

            by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:03:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  He wouldn't take it. (0+ / 0-)

            She's tainted.

            •  you said that already (0+ / 0-)

              is there some need to repeat yourself? Do you feel as if your not being heard?

              We heard you. We just choose to ignore your stupid hyperpartisanship

              You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

              by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:47:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  please check out Dr. Brin's diary on VEEPs (0+ / 0-)

          ... democrats have better reasons to choose vice-presidents than simple 'bringing a state to the table'
          (err.. his diary is over at davidbrin.blogspot.com)

          Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

          by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:49:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Winning a with a small deficit... (0+ / 0-)

          of pledged delegates with super-delegates is not stealing the nomination it is following the rules as they are currently written...

          Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

          by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:01:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Okay, fair enough. (0+ / 0-)

            If Hillary can find enough superdelegates to win the nomination, then I guess she'll be the nominee.

            But when Obama finds enough superdelegates to win the nomination, you need to be on-board with that too.

            To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

            by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:18:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  She Could Literally Lose ALL 50 States (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

        And it's down-ticket where the blood will flow.

        Good, non-national local Democrats paying the price for the Clinton's greed and avarice.

        No thanks...
        These people and the huge Outside-The-Party network they built, led by the Thunder Road Group, need to be tossed in the dust bin, for the good of ALL of us, and Progressivism in General...

      •  How were we supposed to know (0+ / 0-)

        that you're not that stupid?

    •  I heartily agree!!!! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      coigue, anna shane

      Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

      by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:31:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But I thought Obama lacked the experience? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RichM, blue jersey mom, ggottlie

      A heartbeat away from the presidency and all...

    •  She gave Obama a real old-fashioned (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      landrew

      Bloody nose, what with her "3 am" ad and general nastiness and negativity.

      Let's see how Hillary responds after Obama bloodies her up a bit before Pennsylvania.

      I have a feeling Obama's gonna have to pull out the brass knuckles too, now that Hillary got traction with the numchuks.

      As Hillary would say, "now comes the fun part."

      To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

      by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess we will see. (0+ / 0-)

        You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

        by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:38:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  He's a Chicago politician. Attacking him was (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        XOVER, Capt Morgan

        stupidity, incarnate.  He's tried to be nice, but she brought nasty to the table.

        •  stupidity eh? (0+ / 0-)

          Seems to have worked pretty damn well to have been such a stupid decision.

          The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

          by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:49:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh yeah (4+ / 0-)

            +4 delegates?  Yup.. worked oh so well....

            Actually she basically lost yesterday since he'll more than make up that 4 delegate bump in wyoming and mississippi

          •  It worked . . . with Rush Limbaugh stacking the (0+ / 0-)

            deck.  Texas and Ohio are filled with Dittoheads who voted for Hillary.  It wasn't her that made the difference.  It was Rush.

          •  So don't get all upset now, (0+ / 0-)

            When Barack bloodies up the lady.

            Because the truth is Hillary has no more "experience," just a lot of empty verbiage about "experience."

            Less, in fact.

            Yes, less.

            And if you think I'm wrong, please tell me all about Hillary's so-called "experience."  I'm on pins and needles.

            Let me help you:  Hillary has experience in losing national health care for all Americans in 1993, and doing such a lousy job of it, the Republicans took over both houses of Congress in 1994.

            Your turn.

            To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

            by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:35:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  waaaa (0+ / 0-)

          she forced that nice man to misrepresent her health plan, bad Hillary, whatever he does that's bad, well, she made him. That doesn't even work with moms.  It's baby stuff.  

          •  You're fixin' to get baby stuff. (0+ / 0-)

            We'll see how you Hillary folks like to be lied to and treated like dirt with idiotic "3 am" advertisements.

            You want a fighter?

            Let the fight begin.

            Just remember:  Hillary started it.

            To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

            by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:37:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  but but what happened to (0+ / 0-)

        Change and Hope?

      •  brass knuckles (0+ / 0-)

        he would know all about brass knuckles coming from Chicago and all..

      •  what else does he have? (0+ / 0-)

        he's misrepresented her insurance plan already, he's threatened to take his voters with him if he's not the nom, he's cited her 'negatives' and claimed she can't beat McCain? I'm sure he'll come up with something, he's a street fighter, Chicago Slap Down is what he calls it, but what?  She'll be talking about her plans and all her expert retired endorsers and backers. He'll be talking about her negatives and manufacturing outrage by misrepresenting her and pretending to be her victim? He's done that, and he's out spent her and out organized her on the ground and she still beat him.  Maybe he'll start talking about his own plans and how he'll carry them out, with details and maybe he'll take questions on Rezco and put the matter to rest. That would be refreshing, and not so retro.  

        •  Lol. (0+ / 0-)

          Misrepresented Hillary's health plan?  What a laugh.  Hillary herself said she'd garnish wages.  Not just Obama, Hillary herself.  Please.

          What else does Obama have?

          How about Hillary'szero experience?  What exactly is Hillary's 35 years of experience all about?  She claims 35 years of experience.  Let's see:  Hillary is 60 years old.  60 minus 35 is 25 years old.  Guess old Hillary is claiming as experience her whole life after she got out of college.  I can see some very humorous ads over this obvious exaggeration.  Please.

          And even since Bill was President -- Where's the experience there?  Losing health care in '93?  Schip?  Really? -- Schip?  Do you want to go there?  Okay we can.  What else?  What has Hillary done as Senator?  Seriously, set forth Hillary's Senate "accomplishments" because I have no clue what they are.

          National Security is another area that Hillary can expect some pushback.  Ya'll seem to think "3 am" ads are a-okay.  It's not really going to be hard to come up with equivalent push-back ads.  So don't ya'll get your panties in a wad when a few come your way.  Just remember, fear ads were Hillary's idea.

          Negativity works.  Hillary can expect a dose of her own.

          To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

          by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:58:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  ah, but she didn't say (0+ / 0-)

            she'd force people who couldn't afford it to buy it.  She didn't say how she'd enforce her mandate, but then he also has a mandate and he also doesn't' say how he'd enforce it.  He's tried all that already and it's stuck on the shelves, not moving, he can't close that deal. So, what else does he have?  

    •  A new height of arrogance. (9+ / 0-)

      The audacity of the Clinton camp is beyond imagination. But then again, those who emulate Rove will do ANYTHING to get elected.

      Once again, Clinton is transparent in attempting to define the terms of the debate, to control the message. I think that the Obamans are smart enough to see what's happening, and aren't going to be passive.

      The only way Clinton can win is through influencing the party elites. If that's what happens, The Democratic Party will have hell to pay.

      •  I am not from the Clinton camp (4+ / 0-)

        I voted for Obama. I just think that it would be a great ticket.

        Is that Ok with you, if I express my opinion?

        You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

        by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:41:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  why you vote obama if you think hillary on top (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coigue

          is better?

          mesa very confused. help?

          Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

          by RisingTide on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:52:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I chose Obama over Hillary for a different reason (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden, anna shane, RisingTide

            entirely. I did not expect that they would split the ticket, so I used different criteria to choose.
            Specifically, she voted for the war. Otherwise, i adore her.

            Additionally, I want Obama on the ticket whether it's as POTUS or VP....I just want him in office. However, I think it would do him well to serve as VP first. I am saddened at the idea of losing one or the other as presidents...I want them both. But by the time 8 years is up, Hillary may be a bit long in the tooth (like McCain) to be pres.

            Sorry for the rambling. It was a mixture of things that formed my opinions.

            You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

            by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:58:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Where is Rove (0+ / 0-)

        Do we know who is paying him right now?  How do we know she isn't?

        •  No one pays for what the Dems (0+ / 0-)

          are already doing to themselves.

          Why would anyone pay.

          You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

          by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:18:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  150 delegates behind (6+ / 0-)

      Team Clinton is screwed.

      •  two big swing states pissed off (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gabriele Droz

        at not being heard: a joint solution is needed to placate Michigan and Florida.

        You cannot stand in front of progress for your country because of your fears, you must stand behind Her in spite of them.

        by coigue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:42:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It is not just being ahead... (0+ / 0-)

        it is winning the 2025 or 2200 if FL/MI revote...it is like saying in a football game...well we moved the ball further down field we just did not get the touchdown so we should win...the rules are you need to get over the endzone line...which at this point neither candidate looks like he/she will...

        So super-delegates select or Hillary and Obama agree to team up together...

        Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:04:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hillary Clinton is not a real democrat. (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia
      Hidden by:
      coigue

      Hillary has crossed over to become a Republican.  Anyone with so little character and so little principle cannot possibly be a true democrat.  Obama will beat her and the rest of the Republicans in the coming days.

      Maybe Obama will invite her to come rearrange furniture at the White House one of these days.  That's the only experience she has there.

    •  Terrible idea (0+ / 0-)

      They would both be sabotaging each other. There's no Al Gore type here with decades of proven Party loyalty.  Two iconoclastic people with different loyalties and different constituencies. Fugetaboutit.
       

      HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

      by kck on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:22:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tips? Flames? Suggestions? (14+ / 0-)

    Monday was my birthday... So don't be too hard on me. Otherwise, come celebrate with me! :-)

  •  that Richardson ad was the WORST! (3+ / 0-)

    It ran against the wishes of the Richardson family!

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:30:47 PM PST

  •  McCain/Clinton '08 (10+ / 0-)

    Have fun Hillary Supporters.

    This is a very difficult vote -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction. HRC 2002

    by davidcstanton on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:31:17 PM PST

  •  You Do Realize Hillary Gained FOUR Delegates.. (17+ / 0-)

    yesterday?

    Hillary was supposed to have "massive" 60%+ wins to erase Obama's delegate lead.

    She failed in dramatic fashion, and the only real opportunity for her to catch up has been lost.

    Hillary Clinton: leading supporter of the Culture of Corruption in Washington.

    by bincbom on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:31:59 PM PST

  •  Well, if I may say so, i think (6+ / 0-)

    we should all pitch in to help . . . . OBAMA!!!!

    sorry. Had to do that.

    In either case, you can help by phonebanking.
    Please. pretty please with icing and cherry on top.
    http://my.barackobama.com/...

  •  It's not a comeback... (7+ / 0-)

    If you don't get ahead.

    I'd love to see what you have to say about Obama's hugely growing numbers last month. Wasn't Hillary supposed to be inevitable?

    "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

    by eColt on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:04 PM PST

  •  Today, a net of Four Delegates (5+ / 0-)

    Tomorrow the World*!!!!!!

    (*Specifically the parts of the world that count, and/or parts of the world inhabited by White Women Voters, Democratic Voters over 60+, Older Hispanic Voters and Mark Penn)

    Thinking men can not be ruled. --Ayn Rand

    by Wisper on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:42 PM PST

  •  After the Kitchen sink (7+ / 0-)

    Here comes the love (Clinton/Obama).  Take your time as you pulled that knife out of his back.  I couldn’t believe she was pushing to have him on her ticket, after all she has said about him, with friend like her who needs enemy.  

    "It is not sexism at all, it is Clintonism" (Vera Lofaro; Daily Kos, 25FEB2008)

    by jamaicanblood on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:51 PM PST

    •  She's entirely incoherent at this point. (3+ / 0-)

      And she's supposed to be Very Serious.

      •  She seemed pretty coherent (0+ / 0-)

        doing that victory lap on all the talk shows this morning.

        The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

        by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:55:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  She gives good patter, I'll give her that (0+ / 0-)

          Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

          by bumblebums on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:58:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Er, not so much. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          npb7768, jamaicanblood

          She's clearly favoring McCain over Obama:

          2nd time: "[McCain has] never been president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

          3rd time: "I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

          4th time: "Of course, well, you know, I've got a lifetime of experience. Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience. And you know, Senator Obama's whole campaign is about one speech he made in 2002."

          But then she says she might want Obama on her ticket. It's ridiculous.

          •  Any theories? What does this accomplish? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jamaicanblood

            This is one strange way to run for the Democratic nomination.  

            The only theory I have is this:

            It has been reported that McCain would rather run against Hillary.  They were apparently counting on her to help energize their base... so Hillary wants it to look like mutual admiration between herself and McCain.

  •  Yeah, barely holding on when she had... (5+ / 0-)

    ....20+point leads in OH and TX just a few weeks ago is REALLY SOMETHING. What that gives her what, a net gain of 12 delegates?? WOW.

    Hey, wasn't she supposed to be "inevitable" and have this thing wrapped up by now??

    "...if my thought-dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine...." {-8.13;-5.59}

    by lams712 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:34:57 PM PST

  •  Chalk up one for fear and smear (4+ / 0-)

    Rove couldn't have done it better.

    We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

    by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:35:54 PM PST

  •  The Coalition needed to win (3+ / 0-)

    "Come on, everyone! We're looking at the very coalition we need to win this fall! Latinos. Women. Blue-collar workers. These are the people we need to vote for our Democratic nominee en masse if we want to take back the White House this fall. And who's been working hard this whole year to make sure these folks vote Democratic this year? Hillary is!"

    You forgot blacks and the left intelligentsia, who may not be as forgiving as you might think if the popular vote and pledged delegate lead is overturned by supers in Denver.

    Clinton/Rove '08!

    "I guess I'll just have to take him at his word that he is not a Muslim." --HRC

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:37:03 PM PST

  •  Third base (4+ / 0-)

    To paraphrase Ann Richards' quip about Bush I, Hillary Clinton started this campaign on third base and thinks she hit a triple.  Apparently, her supporters are under the same misconception.

    If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.

    by Paleo on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:37:34 PM PST

    •  George never was a success at anything. (0+ / 0-)

      Never worked to help to poor and underadvantaged, never worked on the impeachment of a president, never reformed the educational system of an entire  state for the better....  Hey I'm just getting warmed up here.  Hillary was hitting homeruns thirty years ago and keeps on slamming them out of the park now.  

      The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

      by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:00:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, RIGHT. (0+ / 0-)

        She was doing good stuff thirty years ago, but "hitting homeruns"?  That's a discredit to the people who did the heavy lifting thirty years ago.

        -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

        by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:05:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What is that supposed to mean? (0+ / 0-)

          She worked for the rights of women, children and minorities and achieved a lot of good things that make George W. Bush, the person she was being compared to, look like the lazy cokehead loafer perennial-Midas-in-reverse that he is/was.  Where were you when she was insultingly compared to him?  And why are you trying to pick the words you will allow me to say?  At least you admit she was doing good stuff.  Why couldn't you just stop with that?

          The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

          by mikepridmore on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:01:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  happy birthday (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda

    thanks for the diary

    What Would Shirley Chisholm Do?

    by ricardo4 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:37:55 PM PST

  •  Plouffe (10+ / 0-)

    Our projections show the most likely outcome of yesterday's elections will be that Hillary Clinton gained 187 delegates, and we gained 183.

    That's a net gain of 4 delegates out of more than 370 delegates available from all the states that voted.

    For comparison, that's less than half our net gain of 9 delegates from the District of Columbia alone. It's also less than our net gain of 8 from Nebraska, or 12 from Washington State. And it's considerably less than our net gain of 33 delegates from Georgia.

    The task for the Clinton campaign yesterday was clear. In order to have a plausible path to the nomination, they needed to score huge delegate victories and cut into our lead.

    They failed.

    ...

    The chatter among pundits may have gotten better for the Clinton campaign after last night, but by failing to cut into our lead, the math -- and their chances of winning -- got considerably worse.

    Today, we still have a lead of more than 150 delegates, and there are only 611 pledged delegates left to win in the upcoming contests.

    By a week from today, we will have competed in Wyoming and Mississippi. Two more states and 45 more delegates will be off the table.

    Yeah, what a comeback! Keep up the good work, Hill!

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:38:52 PM PST

    •  Which is exactly why Clinton/Obama (0+ / 0-)

      is babbling, amounting to nothing but a waste of energy.

      Obama's one day closer to an Obama nomination.

      To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

      by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:06:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seems that HRC needs ME, a lifelong Dem (4+ / 0-)

    And her smear and fear is right out of the Clinton playbook...do whatever it takes, we'll make it up to you later.

    Except just maybe I won't be party to sleaze.
    What if Ralphie boy wins my heart?

    And don't flame me, either. She had first shot, and she's blowing it.

    •  Don't Cry If Your Guy Loses (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      spartan68

      I'll support Barak if he wins.  He isn't any less a sleeze than Hillary, but I'm a committed Democrat, and I know the only way back is to elect as many Dems as possible. I'm not going to cry, but get behind the nominee.  You should too, but if you don't we'll win without you.

      •  if HRC says he's not ready & McCain has more exp (4+ / 0-)

        why would you support Barack? Just because he's a Democrat?

        He's either:

        1. Ready, and HRC is lying and she knows it.
        1. Not ready, and you shouldn't support him in the GE.

        Psst..he's ready. And why should I support someone who expects me to fall for her ridiculous war vote explanation? I'm supposed to agree with her that, yes, I am an idiot?

        •  You're Missing The Whole Point (0+ / 0-)

          Hillary is not saying Barak is not ready.  He is, however, very green, and that's a concern.  What she has said repeatedly that the SHE is the MOST ready.  That isn't a lie.  She believes it, I believe it, and evidently, most Democrats beileve it.  But to answer your question, if I don't get my first choice, I'll vote for my second.  All your slander and smear doesn't effect my opinion.  We have two good candidates.  We are lucky to have either running in Noverber.

          •  wrong much? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            This is from the Carpentbagger Report today, posted today from James Fallow at The Atlantic:

            In a live CNN interview just now, Sen. Clinton repeated, twice, the "Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience, I have a lifetime of experience, Sen. Obama has one speech in 2002″ line. By what logic, exactly, does a member of the Democratic party include the "Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience" part of that sentence? And I guess with her nonstop references to 2002 she must be talking about Obama’s anti-Iraq war speech, not the 2004 convention speech that actually put him on the map.

            So McCain's lifetime of experience is better, allegedly, that Obama's alleged lack of experience.

            She isn't the most ready because she doesn't have the judgment. How many dead now in Iraq?

            Plus you said "most Democrats believe" she's most ready. Er, most Democrats have voted for Obama in the popular vote.

            I'm glad you think Obama is ready enough to be President. So do I. I just believe she is a hack politician and sleazy as typified by the above quote.

            And she is not going to get my vote because "I have nowhere else to go." I do. Buh-bye!

            •  That's Such Balony (0+ / 0-)

              This quote has been taken out of context time and time again.  She was talking about running against McCain in the general election, not endorsing him.  Try to use your brains, people.  Hillary is winning most of the Democrat votes, and she won new voters big last night.  She didn't start the war in Iraq, GWB did.  She voted to have inspectors certify that Iraq was free of WMD.  She has the experience, judgement, wisdom and support to be a fine president.  She gets my vote ( and already has once )  But if BHO is the candidate, he will get it.  I'm not very easily discouraged.

              •  time and time again from TODAY? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                neroden

                Uh, that means she keeps repeating it. She isn't winning most votes, MSNBC reports he has more votes. And, oh, more delegates.

                She voted on an authorization to use force in Iraq.

                If I were you, I'd be concerned about how she's splitting the Democratic Party. She wants to use GOP attack lines on a fellow Democrat. And she doesn't know if Obama is a Christian, she "takes him at his word" that he isn't a Muslim. As Axelrod said last night, she's been to many Christian prayer breakfasts with him. So she doesn't remember, eh?

                Sleaze. Typical Clinton politics. More of the tired old politics. She can't make the sale to ME so how can she get independents, etc.?

                •  Just Keep Misquoting, Misrepresenting, and (0+ / 0-)

                  Mischaracterizing.  She keeps repeating it?  No, YOU keep repeating it.  Having a little problem with English, are we?  MSNBC may report on the popular vote; however that's not what I said.  I said Democrats believe her.  Almost 3 million voters thought she has the right stuff last night.  She never said Obama is a Muslem, that's another lie that's repeated over and over in here.  She was adament that she does not believe it.  That's just sleeze from Obama fairy land.  Typical sleeze repeated over and over in a weak attempt to make truth out of lies.  

                  But by all means, continue your gutter-mouth slander.  You're hurting your candidate's cause, showing arrogance which will drive support to the other side.  Want to lose?  Just keep doin' what your doin'.

                  •  HRC fan driving me away from HRC with posts (0+ / 0-)

                    I said Fallows posted it today since he was watching it TODAY. She repeats herself. You said "most Democrats". You're wrong.

                    I didn't say she said Obama was Muslim. I said she did say "she takes him at his word" he isn't.

                    If I really want to lose, I'd support HRC and her 45%+ negative rating.

                    And how do you feel about that last minute Marc Rich pardon, was that part of her experience too?

                    •  Hillary Pardon Marc Rich? (0+ / 0-)

                      That's the sleeziest lie I've hear yet.  There seems to be no lie too dispicable to be told by BHO supporters.  The rest of you guys want to denounce this one?

                      •  she's claiming experience in Bill's White House (0+ / 0-)

                        So is she claiming the Rich pardon too as part of that wonderful wisdom you've been talking about? She's claiming all the good things, did she have an opinion on this?

                        Plus you didn't answer the Fallows quote of her TODAY, the fact Obama is leading in the popular vote, her overall general election negative ratings, and the fact that she apparently doesn't remember him at Christian prayer breakfasts and doesn't ridicule the Muslim sleaze.

                        Perhaps her "experience" in the White House also extends to ignoring the Rwandan genocide, too.

                        •  You Make Sleezy Mistatements (0+ / 0-)

                          And somehow, I have some responsibility to answer you?  I don't think so.  WTF are you talking about re: Mark Rich?  She has made no statement on Rich, so how could she claim it?  Me thinks you're making shit up. If you want to debate the mistakes/accomplishments of Bill Clinton's admin, that's fine.  If you're somehow suggesting that pardon is anything other than a mistake made in the tumultuous last days of the presidency, then the sleaze is on you.

                          Rwanda?  How about Kosovo?  How about Northern Ireland?  How about Palestine?  How about one of only two administrations that increased peace around the world in the last 50 years?  Clinton halted 10 years of butchery in the Balklands, and brought one of the world's worst criminals against humanity to justice.  Can your Obama make any similar claims?  

                          You can find mistakes in Clinton's record because they have records.  They also have records of great accomplishments too.  Too bad you damn Republicans have such tunnel vision.

                          •  HRC fan wants it both ways (0+ / 0-)

                            Then don't answer me, but don't claim what doesn't exist. She SHOULD make a statement on Rich and how much Denise Rich has or hasn't donated to the Clinton campaign and presidential library (guess whether she did? hmmmmmmmmmmm).  The Rich pardon a "mistake"? Then why doesn't either Clinton say so.
                            Oh, I think it was thought out.

                            So you're saying HRC is responsible for peace in Northern Ireland?  The death toll in Rwanda dwarfs that of NI and the, ahem, Balkans. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands.

                            I'm sure Hillary has indeed some experience. There that should make you happy. Those Wal-Mart board years where she was silent but took their money is sure experience.

                          •  Innuendo, Hyperbole (0+ / 0-)

                            Unless you have specific, referenced facts that Rich bought his pardon, take your trollish behavior elsewhere.  If you have facts, then show them.  Speculation and innuendo is useless, sleazy and indicative of scumbag Republican tactics.  Great way to unite the party, eh?  Clearly, you aren't interested in that, only to parrot talking points from the enemy.  Proves, IMO, that your cult's interest in "divide and conquer" strategy.

                            Maybe you're not interested in peace, but the children of Northern Ireland are.  So are the mothers, fathers, siblings...  Same to be said in Palestine, Kosovo, Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia.  It is quite a tremendous feat for an American president to broker peace in so many places around the world.  What did your guy do for peace?  Did he make a speech?  Was he quoted as saying, "I'm very concerned about the violence..."?  Sure, when you have an actual record, mistakes can be pointed out.  Great accomplishments are also present.  The Clinton admin. brokered more peace, created more jobs and prosperity and raised respect for America around the world than any other in modern times.  It's a true act of desperation that you try to inflate exceedingly few mistakes that, in fact, pale to the overwhelming accomplishments of the Clintons.
                             

                          •  let's review Chumley (0+ / 0-)

                            HRC began the negative attacks. "Someone" brought up Rezko, er, and forgot that WJC and HRC have a nice sweet pic of him. "Someone" leaked a pic of Barack in Somali dress. "Someone" attacked Obama for voting present when Dems know full well that voting present in Illinois is common enough for everyone.

                            Sure, we can talk Marc Rich. His pardon was recommended against by the DOJ. But what's allegations of tax evasion that forced him to LEAVE the country?

                            SUre the children of NI want peace. So do the little black babies of Rwanda...perhaps, they don't matter as much to you.

                            I never said there weren't any accomplishments of the Clinton administration. What I said, and the record has demonstrated, is that Hillary is a hack politician who uses sleaze because she feels entitled to the Presidency.

                            And we can revisit Bubba's comment in South Carolina, care to?

                            And I'm sorry, did you in fact have any info on HRC leading the fight in Wal-Mart back when she was on the board? When she could directly affect change? Or did she shut her piehole for Bill's political future?

                            You're doing a bang-up job of trying to unite the Party after HRC's sleazy GOP tactics.

                            Don't blame me if Nader affects the election if HRC isw the nominee due to her sleaze.

                          •  plus Barack on peace & war in Iraq (0+ / 0-)

                            If Hillary had listened to Barack Obama and the other 20+ Democratic senators instead of supping at George W.'s dish along with John McCain, we probably wouldn't have over 3000 dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis dead, and a war that is bankrupting our future.

                            Yeah, that's experience all right.

                          •  No Present Votes In US Senate (0+ / 0-)

                            Hillary wanted inspections to work.  They did, then Bush went to war anyway.  The decision was made months before the resolution.  Hillary didn't start the war, Bush did.

                          •  Ok, Chuckles (0+ / 0-)

                            Still don't have any facts to support you claim on Rich, eh?  Well, thanks for playing; we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

                            Voting 'present' is common, old school politics in Illinois.  So much for the end of politics as usual.  I want a candidate who can take a stand, not one who punts on tough issues.  The present vote is a cop-out, a way to avoid controversy.  A leader needs to be bold and not hide behind some chicken-shit political tradition.

                            All babies matter to me, unlike you who wants to minimalize the efforts that secured peace and increased safety to babies in NI, Palestine... you know by now how many places around the world.

                            Why are you challenging me on info on Wallmart?  If you have some charge, lets see it (facts please, no more BS hyperbole) It’s not my job to feed you criticisms, you have to have your own ducks in a row.

                            I'm not even going to comment on "someone" charges.  If you have real, specific, referenced facts, let's see them.

                          •  FALN/Marc Rich/Rodham brothers..oooh, the sleaze (0+ / 0-)

                            is here. Start at http://en.wikipedia.org/... shall we?

                            Wonder for all the crap HRC talk on how the Republicans are going to attack Obama, what are they going to do with the Rodham connections, the killing and maiming by the FALN, the fact that Marc Rich was trading with the Iranians and was a player in the Iraqi food for oil scandal (as wiki notes by an independent inquiry)....boy I'm glad her brothers are okay, whew.  

                            Hm, why on earth could Clinton pardon Rich? Perhaps a miscarriage of justice? Yeah, that's it. Free the billionaire Marc Rich, whose ex-wife's contributions a year  before had nothing to do with it!

                            Someone like HRC who uses GOP tactics will get nailed by GOP tactics...and is a worse candidate than Obama, period.

                            I will give your Kool-Aid induced stammer one credit. She didn't quite punt on Iraq, even though she can't say she's wrong. She did a Clinton-as-usual trying to have it every way at once. Her judgment was wrong.

                            But it's okay, your and my children and grandchildren will have to pay for it. But Marc Rich's won't, since he's liviing in Europe.

                          •  oh, and you should be worried about this diary (0+ / 0-)
                          •  Clintons in bed with Monsanto and child labor? (0+ / 0-)
                          •  I'm Not Worried (0+ / 0-)

                            No proof that Clinton specifically supported child labor or directly worked directly to provide cover for anything illegal or immoral.  Do some more homework and get back to me.

                          •  still cashing the checks? (0+ / 0-)

                            Then you won't have a problem with HRC addressing it and denouncing Monsanto.

                          •  I Suppose You Have Proof (0+ / 0-)

                            And not showing it too.  Looks like it's "anything goes" in your bizzaro world.

                          •  Nice Try (0+ / 0-)

                            You still haven't shown Rich bought his pardon.  Last contribution a year before she asked for a pardon, not much proof of bribery.  What was the contribution for?  How much was it?  How is it connected to a pardon that wasn't requested until over a year later?  More speculation.  More hyperbole.  

                            Once again, Hillary voted for inspections, not pre-emptive war.  Your grandchildren will be paying for Bush's war.  

              •  Her strategy against McCain SUCKS. (0+ / 0-)

                Seriously, touting his experience while denigrating Obama's....

                She's playing into McCain's hands, because he will win every 'experience' argument hands down.

                -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:07:14 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Why is Hillary "very ready"? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            I mean, I just don't see it.

            Where is this vast experience to which Hillary Clinton constantly refers?

            To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

            by XOVER on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:10:34 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter, Gabriele Droz

    Although I caucused for Obama, I'm recommending your diary. Two videos worth watching, too. I liked Hillary's opening about for everyone who's ever been knocked down ... etc.

  •  It's a comeback in her own mind... (6+ / 0-)

    Just two weeks ago she was way ahead in TX and OH, and did not hold those margins.

    She cannot catch up in delegates.

    She can only steal the nomination by playing dirty and despicable.

    Well Obama is a fast learner and be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

    Hillary won't get my vote in November.  I don't vote for McCain endorsers.

    Any party that would lie to start a war would also steal an election.

    by landrew on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:41:18 PM PST

  •  Clinton is SCUM (2+ / 0-)

    McCain would/will SLAUGHTER her in the general election.  Enjoy your time in the sun Clinton supporters, it will end, one way or the other.  Either in the Primary or the General Election.  Maybe that is her great strategy, to get to play some part in the continuing Neocon domination dream.  Maybe McCain will make her secretary of something after he handily defeats her.  Everyone will think it is a show of unity for the nation, until we are beaten into submission more than we already are.  That would be the perfect way to shut up democrats for a generation more, the Clinton machine PLUS the neocon machine.  Four more years of deteriorating economy, jobs, legal rights.... with Momma Hillary there to tell us over and over it will be ok, just bend over America, this won't hurt a bit, Dr. McCain will make it all better....
    Hope you enjoy getting what you are after, I won't.

  •  Talking About The Issues (5+ / 0-)

    Like Rezko? Is he an issue?  Where's the scandal?

    Like the phone NAFTA/Canada issue?  Hillary dismissed Obama's denials and believed the hoax perpetrated by the conservative Harper admin. in Canada.  Are you proud of that one?

    And she's repeatedly lauded McCain - Mr. Iraq War - as more fit to be commander in chief than Obama.  Is that a legitimate issue?  Do you believe that?

    You are endorsing the very things we've rightly condemned rove and republicans for these last 7 years.

  •  Meh. Before March 4th she needed to get (10+ / 0-)

    58.7% of the remaining pledged delegates to come out ahead.

    Now she needs to get 63.8% of the remaining pledged delegates to come out ahead.

  •  Not a Comeback (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8

    It's not a comeback when a candidate underperforms the predicted outcome.

    Fox News made the same spin...erm, I mean "analysis".

  •  "comeback" as in: "WAIT!" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sagittarius, Dagoril, MingPicket

    "Please! I didn't really mean it! Come back, Democratic voters all over the country whom I have been dissing and dismissing for months and months! Now I NEED you! Please! Please don't walk away..."

    yup. "come back!" kid, alrighty.

    good luck with that in November, Hillary.

    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

    by Librarian on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:43:01 PM PST

  •  Never underestimate the power of a woman! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tamens, Gabriele Droz, Lying eyes

    Go Hillary Go!

    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

    by roseeriter on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:43:48 PM PST

  •  Obama has more delegates (5+ / 0-)

    And Hillary can't catch up.

  •  My Sentiments Exactly (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdsiamese, Gabriele Droz

    Hillary Clinton worked hard to earn this victory.  Good for her.  However this turns out, I'll always be happy for her extraordinary moments in this campaign.

    YES SHE WILL!

  •  Your Myth (8+ / 0-)

    will lose to my Math.

    This message has not been approved by the corporate media.

    by jre2k8 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:46:17 PM PST

  •  "We need these people" (0+ / 0-)

    Why is it assumed that people who vote for Obama in the primary (young voters, African Americans, higher educated Democrats) or people who vote for Hillary in the primary (blue collar, women, latinos) will abandon the Democratic party en masse if their candidate doesn't win?  When we point to Hillary or Obama as getting these voters, it merely means that they prefer that candidate, it doesn't mean that they will only vote for that candidate.

    "The will of the people shall be the law of the land."

    by Fighting Bob on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:47:10 PM PST

  •  What a disgrace (5+ / 0-)

    Both Clinton and the diarist.

    The two sons of Ann Richards, the late former Texas governor, are objecting to an Internet video published by Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign that suggests their mother would have supported Clinton.

    * * *

    But sons Dan and Clark Richards, partners at an Austin law firm, say nobody can know who the outspoken and opinionated former governor would have supported in the race between Clinton and Barack Obama.
    "As her children, we never presumed to know her mind when alive and we are not prepared to make a claim as to who she would endorse or what she would do if she were still with us," they wrote in an e-mail last week. "We are not granting permission for her name to be used in advertisements on behalf of either candidate."

    * * *

    Dan Richards said in an interview Tuesday that they denied permission and he's angry the campaign published the video anyway. He said the campaign contacted him again last Friday to ask him to reconsider, and he repeated his objections.
    "They asked me if I would sue the campaign, and I said no, I wasn't in the business of suing the campaign, but I didn't think they should do it," he said in a telephone interview. "To try to present who she would endorse a year and a half after she died is offensive to me."

    http://www.chron.com/...

    Are we going to get endorsements from Vince Foster and Ron Brown?  

  •  "Roaring back" (6+ / 0-)

    to a single-digit gain in delegates.

  •  The fact is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RaulVB, Dagoril, get the red out

    Hillary can't win the general

    She'll lose illinois... .unless obama is her running mate

    the black vote is lost to her

    However, she does, as you state, have some very strong support

    So what do we do about this?  I honestly don't know.. we have a real problem

  •  I despise Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    get the red out

    but Obama should ask her to be his VEEP due to the fact about half the party is voting for her. In return she should do the right thing, not drop out but after a revote of Fla and Mich agree to abide by the results of the pledged delegate count.

    After Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

    by nevadadem on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:49:40 PM PST

  •  Yes! Let's hand the general election to McCain! (4+ / 0-)

    And let's put a big shiny bow on it, so it looks nice!

    Go ahead and campaign for Hillary if you don't want the Democrats to win the White House, because John McCain will wallop twelve shades o' shit out of her.

    If Hillary wins this nomination, it'll be via superdelegates, because there is no way she can do otherwise... and if superdelegates decide it, black voters are going to feel like the white DNC stole this election away from them, and they'll be disenfranchised.  If you get rid of the black vote, you can forget about Democrats winning anything on a national level again.  McCain will be quick to start courting them, and he'll pick up some, but a lot of the ones he doesn't pick up will stay home on election day.

    Also, the youth vote.  There are a lot of young people out there excited about Obama.  For Hillary, not so much.  If this thing gets super-delegated for her, a lot of them will get discouraged and say "fuck it" and not vote.  So, more loss there.

    A superdelegate-decided election is ugly in general, and it will alienate half the party.  I'll still hold my nose and vote for Hillary if I have to (I think she absolutely sucks, but she's still better than McCain), but many won't, not after the nasty campaign she's been running.

    And McCain's not super-popular with the Republicans, so he's not likely to inspire them to get out to the polls... BUT, their hatred of Hillary is pathological.  They'll turn out in a veritable tsunami just to vote against her.

    Also, she's been running on an "experience" ticket, when she really doesn't have all that much more experience than Obama.  How's running on "experience" gonna serve her when she comes up against McCain?  If "experience" is what you're worried about, then, sorry, he's your guy - he's been in there forever.

    So, sure, let's just throw our arms around Hillary.  It'll be worth losing the White House (and likely the house and senate as well) just to have her as the nominee, right?  She's nifty!  I hear she does good "girlfriend."

    "I am a comedian and poet, so anything that doesn't get a laugh ... is a poem." - Bill Hicks

    by shadetree mortician on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:49:58 PM PST

  •  What's this "Our" crap? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

    Yours, never mine.

    Hillary Clinton: A tragi-comic character whose hubris destroyed her reputation.

    by The Dead Man on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:52:51 PM PST

  •  If fear and smear of a dem is how you want to win (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

    have at it

    I will put my full force and efforts into helping Actblue candidates

    I will do damn little, if anything for Hillary

    Republican anti- Hillary 527, C.U.N.T. t-shirts??? I want a t-shirt that says: Grizzled Old Penises

    by Clytemnestra on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:54:09 PM PST

  •  If she could just produce that pesky tax return.. (2+ / 0-)
  •  Well if you want commentary, you will get it. (2+ / 0-)

    She is a weak candidate who can't build a coalition.

    She gets props for tearing someone down as a mechanism for winning two primaries.

    I am going to say a few things here that won't be politically correct for this site.  First, the "muslim" thing.  We are a country that loves diverse religions, right?  It took me days, if not weeks, to figure out the "muslim" thing.  Sure I figured that we wouldn't vote for a "muslim."  But then I thought, "who in the world would think he is muslim."  For Pete's sake, look it up.

    This morning, I was reading about how people in Ohio voted against him because they thought he was a "muslim."  My first thought was that if they are too lazy to surf the net and watch a speech to figure it out, I can understand why they are in such an economic plight.

    Then it dawned on me, it doesn't have anything to do with him being a "muslim", it has everything to do with him being black.  "Muslim" is codeword for black. It is politically ok not to vote for someone based on their religion; but not their color.

    Hillary's spreading of the Kenyan photo, alleged doctoring photo's to make him more black, comments on Sixty Minutes supports this.  If she said infatically that Barack is a Christian and you shouldn't vote against him that reason, she would know that she was taking away the justification of many of our fellow more socially conservative and perhaps less open, especially the elderly.

    Now, #2.  NAFTA.  

    I have noticed that the Clinton's have a trait of trying to cover a weakness by shredding their opponent on their (Clinton) weakness. . . this is what many cry fowl about. . . "look and judge others but not myself"

    I don't think Clinton had anything to do with procuring the Canadian issue. . . although another poster mentioned that Hillary's camp was also contacted.

    But she (her surrogates) were spreading falsehoods.  Paul Begala, Kiki McClean et. al were presenting the situation, after the PM's statements, as it was a known that the Obama campaign called the Canadian's to tell them not to be worried because wink wink (Begala's words) this is just politics and we aren't changing NAFTA.  By that time, it was clear that it was the Canadians who reached out.  It was also clear that the Obama campaign did not say anything different from that which they said publicly.

    Was it fair for Hillary to use the fact that Obama said there was not meeting when there was to show he wasn't in control of his campaign. . .yeah, ok. . . but they (Clintons) intentionally lied to their party about that act.

    1.  The 3:00 am ad.  

    60% of American (Republicans and Independents) on October 31, 2008 will say that other than George Bush, the one other human being on this earth (other than the perpetrators) most capable of avoiding 911 was Bill Clinton.

    What did Bill Clinton do when the world trade center was bombed in 1993?

    When Iraq would misbehave why did he bomb Iraq to get their attention (ie don't we now know that the terrorists and terroristic countries have different motivators)

    Why did he bomb the pharmaceutical plant and why did he stop there?

    If he knew that AlQaeda was such a threat and Bush wasn't doing anything about it, why didn't he cause a stink?

    Why didn't he retaliate for the bombing of the USS Cole?

    Since 911, we have pretty much been safe at home.  The same can't be said for his presidency.

    She has already adopted his presidency as her experience.  McCain had to be thrilled by the 3:00 am ad.

    I am not arguing culpability between Bush and Clinton. . . It was Bush's job to get into office and take care of the crisis that occurred.  But republicans and Independents aren't going to fall for Hillary claiming Bill's experience and then blaming Bush for what Bill did.  It is my opinion that close elections are won by independents.

    I just can't wait to see her next ad, to see what her weakness is.

  •  axelrod moved the goalposts again last night. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lying eyes

    he told chris matthews obama will have the delegates "before denver". heh!

    Hillary 2008 - Flying Monkey Squadron 283

    by campskunk on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:59:01 PM PST

  •  Yeah... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia

    Come on, everyone! We're looking at the very coalition we need to win this fall! Latinos. Women. Blue-collar workers. These are the people we need to vote for our Democratic nominee en masse if we want to take back the White House this fall. And who's been working hard this whole year to make sure these folks vote Democratic this year? Hillary is!

    And those black people will just fall in line...

    Right?

  •  wow! Rhode Island women broke 2-1 for hillary. (0+ / 0-)

    riwomen

    Hillary 2008 - Flying Monkey Squadron 283

    by campskunk on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:03:48 PM PST

  •  Color me curious... (0+ / 0-)

    This wasn't supposed to happen yesterday. We weren't supposed to be talking about this today.

    I thought that Hillary said she was in no mater what...

    And I also thought Hillary was up by huge margins in TX and OH just two weeks ago...

    What happened?

  •  I'm curious to know (0+ / 0-)

    why Hillary supporters won't comment on the math. Are they being deliberately obtuse? A primary is about winning delegates. How do they see her doing that at this stage? Show me the numerical projections please.

    It's not the tragedies that kill us; it's the messes--Dorothy Parker

    by Libertaria on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:34:59 PM PST

  •  Thanks for the great diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taters

    I appreciate you posting her speech from Ohio. I missed it last night. Hillary is just great. What a fantastic day yesterday.

    Go Hillary!

    'I don't want any commies in my car. Christians either!' Repo Man

    by Psychotronicman on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:44:04 PM PST

  •  what happened yesterday? (0+ / 0-)

    the pathetic idiot-clown clinton managed a net 15-delegate gain versus an insurmountable 130+/- delegate deficit.

    the consummate so-what nonevent, a minor speedbump on hillary clinton's highway to political oblivion.

    Hillary Clinton: The Mike Huckabee of the Democratic Party.

    by RabidNation on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:09:41 PM PST

    •  yeah, your candidate got shellacked... (0+ / 0-)

      ...by an "idiot-clown", as you describe her. he's gonna just be a wet spot on the road if the republicans get a shot at him. we can't afford to waste this opportunity to win back the presidency. obama's ego can wait.

      Hillary 2008 - Flying Monkey Squadron 283

      by campskunk on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:36:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  atdnext - check your tags (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taters

    Mia Dolan added "endorsed by dead people".

  •  Our comeback lady... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taters

    Yes...it was a beautiful thing!!! Let's get rolling!
    HILLARY IS THE CHANGE AMERICA NEEDS AND WANTS!!!-susanclare

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