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Last night Hillary Clinton delivered a speech with a few good lines (like the "Twin Cities" one) written by her six -- yes, six -- speech writers. The speech certainly brought some much needed excitement to what had been a bland, somewhat lifeless convention and energized a convention crowd that had most likely fallen asleep during Mark Warner's cellphone pitch. Here's what the speech DIDN'T do:

It didn't deliver anything on a personal level about Barack Obama. It said, "Vote Obama." But the exact same speech could have been given by someone who had never met the man. There were no personal anecdotes, no nod to the audience saying, "It's okay -- he's a good guy. I shared a stage with him, I traveled with him, I've campaigned with him, I KNOW Barack Obama and I know, in my heart of hearts, that he is a great man and will make a great President."

It didn't do a thing to take away the "experience" worry people have. She never once said he was "qualified." Yes. We should unify and vote for him. But where were the comments saying, "I too, worried about what I perceived to be a lack of experience from Barack Obama -- I was wrong. This is a man who is uniquely qualified to be President of the United States of America."

It didn't do a thing to destroy the great "friendship" she has with the "hero" John McCain. It didn't even disavow the ridiculous ads the McCain campaign is running starring none other than ... Hillary.

Here's what the speech DID do:

Made Hillary look like a hero. Ensured many Dems would go through a bit of buyer's remorse. Made Hillary look like she's taking over as the head of the party. Forget Teddy. Forget Barack. Look at ALL she had done and ALL she had fought for over the "past 35 years" (such experience she has!). The speech successfully set up her run in 2012.

If she wanted to do anything to help Barack and honestly didn't want to spend "one more moment" wasting time thinking about Hillary, she wouldn't have DEMANDED a roll call vote on the floor from her delegates. And then, demand it not happen during a breakfast, off the floor, but ON the floor at 4:30 PM today.

If she wanted to do anything to help Barack, she would tell her "best" friend Terry McAuliffe to stick around and not LEAVE the Democratic convention after BILL speaks tomorrow. The first time Terry's left a convention early.

If she wanted to do anything to help Barack, she'd tell Ed Rendell to quit running around comparing Barack to "Adlai Stevenson" who, he says, like Barack, couldn't connect with the common man and won't get elected.

Hillary's speech is getting too much hype. I don't think it did a damn thing to help Barack. It helped Hillary. Just like everything Hillary does.

Originally posted to sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:03 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tips? (26+ / 0-)

    Takes a deep breath and prepares for the flames.

    Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

    by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:03:58 AM PDT

  •  You clearly didnt listen to the words (12+ / 0-)

    Stop trying to stir up drama.

  •  Bullshit. She did all she could with speech... (17+ / 0-)

    Now, we'll see what happens with her and her team between now and Nov 4th.  But her speech was outstanding.

    •  I bring up a number of things she didn't do (8+ / 0-)

      Do you disagree with that? Is there a reason she couldn't deliver a personal anecdote about Barack Obama? Is there a reason she couldn't disavow the ads McCain is running starring her? Did she really do "all she could" with her speech?

      Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

      by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:07:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you are correct in your observations, but (14+ / 0-)

        you are focusing on the wrong things. These are similar to the comments that were mentioned at Faux news by William Kristol. Would it have been nice if she mentioned some personal aspect of Barack, sure, but she didn't have to. She did what she needed to do. She asked her supporters if they were in it for her, or in it for other Democratic goals. She did a good job given the state of her supporters. I never understood them until last night when I saw and heard the emotion they had for her. It is also now up to us to bring it the rest of the way home.

        My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me. Benjamin Disraeli

        by pvmuse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:14:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fox News was struggling to find something to say (6+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens, ZinZen, KenBee, LynneK, Darmok, SolarAngel

          Fox has had some really tough evenings so far.  Look, Bill Kristol is a walking partisan talking point.  When he pees the only thing that comes out are talking points.  The only thing he COULD talk about is what she didn't say, since talking about what Clinton DID say would be so depressing to Kristol, since it is bad, bad news for the Republican Party.

          The same phenomena could be seen the night before when Chris Wallace was asked to sum up the first night.  Did anyone catch it?  Instead of talking about substance, Wallace just blathered about the Democrats "wasting an entire evening"!  Okay, Wallace is about 90% brain dead, but seriously, Ted Kennedy and Michelle Obama?  A waste of time?  Michelle Obama delivered a speech that I think will always help define her and will help to define what is possible for a candidate's wife to say at a convention.  Good heavens!  and Chris Wallace thought that was a waste of time?  What on earth did Wallace imagine could have topped it?  Having the ceiling of the Pepsi Center open and a ray of celestial light illuminate her as she spoke?  A spectacle of ten thousand Chinese drummers, pounding in unison?   This convention is going to be a huge disappointment for Faux Noose, and what's bad for them is really, really good for us.  Fox better watch out, lest its motto become

          "We Concern Troll, so you don't need to"

        •  William Kristol ... YIKES! (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wordene, 3goldens, littlenomad, darkbloom

          Never thought I'd agree with ANYTHING he said. I don't watch "Faux" News, but their motives behind criticizing her speech were certainly different from mine. I just want Obama to win this thing and I don't think she went all out. In a way, I guess I'm glad most people are seeing it as such a positive, as it's the perception that counts if it can become the reality. And yes, her "were you just voting for me?" line (or whatever it was) was very well-delivered. The whole speech was good. I don't debate that for a SECOND. It was a very, very good speech. But did it help Barack? Will it help him in the long run? I don't think so and that's the point of my diary.

          PS - what were you doing watching Fox News? ;-)

          Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

          by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:29:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's important to check on the enemy comments, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sloopydrew, Darmok

            as a junky I tivo CNN and Faux  to watch snippets after watching live on MSNBC.

            My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me. Benjamin Disraeli

            by pvmuse on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:34:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Did we really expect Hillary to get up on that (5+ / 0-)

            stage and say, "I'm glad I lost, Obama will be a better president than I would have, His ideas were better than mine, He should be the president because he won and I lost"?

            I fully expect Hillary, Bill, Chelsea, and many others to continue to feel as if they should have won.  I fully expect them to continue to believe that she would have been the best choice for president.

            It would be really strange if Hillary and crew all of a sudden acknowledged that the best candidate won the race.

            They are doing what is necessary to bring the party together.  I am proud of her/them.  

            I was a huge Hillary hater during the primaries.  Even I can see that she did a great job last night.

            I'm still glad she didn't win.  I wanted Barack Obama for president.  

            I've got enough sense to realize that I would have been dissappointed if Barack had lost and was up on that stage telling me why Hillary was the best candidate.

            She said what needed to be said. She told us to go out and support the winner.

            Even I can giver her credit for that.  She earned it.  Now, leave Hillary alone!

            •  No, she shouldn't have saidshe's glad she lost... (5+ / 0-)

              ...but she could have answered the onslaught of GOP ads with her declaring that Obama isn't prepared to lead the country, by saying something like:

              "Now, you all know that Senator Obama and I fought a vigorous race in the primaries - that's good ol' Democratic Party politics, after all.  And after those 8 months as a fellow Democratic candidate for President, I can personally say from experience that Barack Obama is a FIGHTER, a STRONG adversary, a skilled COMMANDER of his campaign, and he will LEAD this country with STRENGTH and conviction."  

              Something like that, actually just anything along those line would have been good --- she's a senior political operative, she knows that would have stopped the effectiveness of the GOP using her words against her.  It's just common sense.

              •  You should go into speech writing ... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mangelwurzel

                This was good, mangelwurzel:

                "Now, you all know that Senator Obama and I fought a vigorous race in the primaries - that's good ol' Democratic Party politics, after all.  And after those 8 months as a fellow Democratic candidate for President, I can personally say from experience that Barack Obama is a FIGHTER, a STRONG adversary, a skilled COMMANDER of his campaign, and he will LEAD this country with STRENGTH and conviction."

                Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

                by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:32:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  There is no one "right" way (0+ / 0-)

            The problem - no offense - is that you're buying into the idea that there is only one right way to be persuasive.  If Hillary had done it Kristol's way, he would have said that she was insincere, i.e., was she sincere when she said he didn't have experience, or sincere now when she says he does?  See, you can't win because he (and others) would criticize no matter what.

            Accept that the way Hillary put her points, they were very well stated.

      •  Personal anecdote? Warm and fuzzy... (6+ / 0-)

        won't cut it.  She is a politician, not his homeroom teacher.

      •  Again, you needed to listen more closely (17+ / 0-)

        What you heard last night was the clarion call to those who are, or claim to be, diehard Clinton supporters.  Many of them are honestly conflicted, others are trolls, using events to stir fake controversy.  What the Clinton speech left the honest supporters with is no clear rationale for soldiering on, purportedly in her behalf.

        A shopping list of uplifting stories about Obama would have been as stirring as reading a shopping list.  You watched one of the great political speeches of all time last night, but somehow you did not grasp its importance.  Bill Clinton did.  Watching his face while he watched Hillary give the best speech of his life was fascinating.  He was one proud man.  She entered American political history by doing so.  She will be remembered not just for a spirited and close campaign, but for setting an example for every candidate to follow her for party loyalty after a wrenching loss.  If every Democrat in the future can learn from last night, the Democratic Party will be far, far stronger.

        So no, with all due respect, I don't agree with the tone or conclusions of your diary and I suspect few if any others would either.  Watch it again.

      •  the best point was that she (5+ / 0-)

        could at least have helped to defuse the inexperience thing, ESPECIALLY given that the GOP is now using her words in ads against us.  You are right--she didn't personalize her endorsement; she basically said, vote democratic or you'll be sorry.  I thought it was adequate but thin on Barack, heavy on Hill.

      •  Look, if she had done anything more, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LynneK, LI Mike, blueocean, Ed G

        such as praising Barack's good qualities up and down, it would have come off as INSINCERE.  She gave a SINCERE, strongly supportive speech.

        Let it go.

        Join us in the Grieving Room on Monday evenings to discuss mourning and loss.

        by Dem in the heart of Texas on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:46:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  She could only do so (3+ / 0-)

    much for Obama, seeing as how she gets top billing in so many McCain ads.

    •  Yep (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sloopydrew, LynneK

      Somehow I think the McCain ads featuring Hillary aren't worth as much anymore today.  My bet is he will be investing his money a a different attack, maybe Paris Hilton or Moses suits him better.
      My favorite line of the night:
      "No Way, No How, No McCain"

      •  Hopefully Obama uses her comments from last night (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, LynneK, Tx LIberal

        in ads of his own. "Does Hillary Clinton REALLY support John McCain? Let's let her answer, in her own words:

        'No Way. No How. No McCain.'"

        Give Johnny a taste of his own medicine.

        Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

        by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:06:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  said the same thing (11+ / 0-)

    I said the very same thing to my husband this morning. She didn't talk about Obama and how she learned to respect him, etc. It was a speech about a generic Democrat.

    Fine, maybe not everything I wanted.

    But it's still a really important step and a damn good argument for vote for Obama.

  •  Yawn (7+ / 0-)

    Some people will never grow up or move on. I'm sorry that you're one of them.

    One failure after another and the final result is anarchy. -edscan

    by BoiseBlue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:09:36 AM PDT

  •  U must be Joe Scarbourough! (4+ / 0-)

    or Craig Crawford or Pat Buchanan!  Go home.

  •  Oh, grow up. (6+ / 0-)

    It isn't necessary for everyone to think your candidate is wonderful. It's necessary for him to get votes.

    This is the sort of cult of personality that undermines Obama.

  •  I completly disagree (9+ / 0-)

    I don`t know which speak you saw, but I saw a solid speech.  She praised both Obamas and it was sincere.  

    You talk about demand etc.  Thats not a good way to look at things, even though Obama won, you have to realize that she got 18 million votes.  People need to cooperate in such a situation.  Her delegates want a roll-call, her supporters want a roll-call.  Give them a roll-call.  The roll-call is not about Hillary Clinton, it is actually about the voters.  Obama-camp should give a little here and have a controlled roll-call.  That would be taken as a good gesture from Hillary-camp, her supporters and her delegates it would also help with the media.  

    Hillary got a good speaking slot, but not the day before Obama which could have made things worse, she praised him, attacked McCain and thanked her voters and urged them to vote for Obama.  She had a difficult task and I believe she delivered big-time.    

    Off course the speech helped Hillary, he career was and is on the line.  If Obama lose this election she  risk being blamed and she risks meeting Obama in the primary in 2012 when he still can talk about change but has more experience and probably a country that needs even more change.  Hillary helped Obama, you saw the reaction from her supporters, also the leader (I think) of "just say no" talked on Larry King, she is still sceptical about Obama, but you could see that she is coming around.  When such "hardcore" Clinton fans are coming around, then the speech is helping.  

    I think you completly got this wrong.

  •  I agree with many of your points (7+ / 0-)

    but you'll get flamed by those who are sick of this.

    I'm grateful for what she did say, she made it clear what was critical for the party - drawing together to elect Obama. But you're correct that she could have added more language that directly dispelled the uncertainty about his character and his readiness.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:15:53 AM PDT

    •  Thanks, bumblebums (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bumblebums, 3goldens, zizi

      I suppose your way of looking at it is better than mine. I was just really let down. Honestly and sincerely. It's too bad that, to some posters here, that makes me a member of the "GOP." Can't they look over the 4 years of posts I've made and see that I am definitely NOT a Republican? G-zuz.

      Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

      by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:37:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was too. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bumblebums, sloopydrew, 3goldens, rweba, zizi

        But others on Kos have convinced me that the speech made the argument that if you support the policies Hillary supports, you'll vote Obama.  And that might have been the more compelling argument than trying to convince PUMAs that Obama's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

        Ok, let's reverse the situation.  Obama had lost a painful election--maybe the superdelegates threw the entire thing to Hillary.  Would we believe Obama if he sung the praises of the same woman who ran a horrid campaign--the same candidate that we'd been hating for nearly a year?  No.  He'd damage his credibility and he'd win none of us over.

        But if he talked about his vision for a change from the failed policies of the Bush administration, maybe we'd have grungingly admitted he was right.

        I know I'd have cringed if Obama had lost and then spent time praising Clinton's character.

        So, as an Obama supporter, I was disappointed.  But maybe the speech worked on Hillary supporters.

    •  I expect her to continue for a couple of months.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sloopydrew

      I agree with the points, but presume...sorta demand...that this is not the end of it.   She's got work to do to refute her own statements, now in Republican ads.

      McCain Plan for Economy: US to divorce first wife, marry rich heiress nation.

      by Inland on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:52:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your not helping by giving the MSM more (6+ / 0-)

    talking points.  She did a great job, "NO WAY, NO HOW, NO MCCAIN."

  •  She could have (17+ / 0-)

    set herself on fire at the podium and it wouldn't have been enough for some people.

    Don't confuse this confusion with disorganization, because we're not that organized yet. -5.13/-3.38

    by Grannus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:18:19 AM PDT

  •  Let's get real. (6+ / 0-)

    There HAD to be a fawning, beautifully produced documentary to introduce Hillary.  And she HAD to give a speech that paid homage to her accomplishments while ALSO endorsing Obama.  I will never think that Obama and Clinton have a great personal relationship; this was a bitter battle.  However, HRC did everything she was capable of doing last night on Obama's behalf.  C'mon, she asked the relevant question: did you do this for me or the people who really need us?

    Though a war may well be "too stupid," that doesn't prevent its lasting. Stupidity has a knack of getting its way. --Albert Camus

    by GreenMtnState on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:19:14 AM PDT

  •  Hillary threw a bucket of cold water on.... (4+ / 0-)

    the ardent "HRC or no one" supporters.

    I don't think she personally cares for Obama and a subsection of her supporters don't and won't either. What she said last night was for them to put aside their personal feelings and get behind Barack because he will fight for the same issues that her supporters care about. And she let it be known that under no circumstances can McCain become President Bush III.

    Her most ardent supporters will never come around on Barack personally, but it doesn't matter. What matters is national security, health care, education, etc., and Hillary told the dead enders that they need to get their collective head out of their asses and vote for the man who will fight for their values.

  •  "Hillary's speech is getting too much hype." (6+ / 0-)

    Must be tough on you.

  •  Hillary is not Obama's mommy. (0+ / 0-)

    Hillary is not Biden's mummy.
    Hillary is not the Democratic Party's momma.

    Barack Obama is a grown man.  He has all the resources of the DNC at his disposal.  He has millions upon millions of dollars at his disposal.  He has a paid staff of experienced professionals.

    I remember well how people said  "That Hillary, the way she mismanaged her campaign proves she's not fit to be POTUS.".

    Goose, gander.  

    Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:20:37 AM PDT

  •  You can always find something "missing" (5+ / 0-)

    You can always find something "missing" in any speech, since a speech has to be short and to the point, and a critical can invent an infinite number of things that they personally would have wanted to hear.

    Clinton gave a very good speech, clearly telling her supporters to back Obama, and that voting for McCain would be a betrayal of everything that she has worked for.

    Let's hope that she convinces the 30% of her supporters that aren't already supporting Obama to do so, so that the media stops hyping the "split in the Democratic party".

  •  I agree (4+ / 0-)

    Her job isn`t to speak about how good a person Barack is.  Her job is to secure that her voters realize that they share the same views on important issues and that voting for McCain will be a disaster since he is against most of what Obama and Clinton both stands for.  

    The speech was good and it did what it should to.  You will ALWAYS have people who don`t get satisfied and the GOP would have used this speech no matter what.  

  •  Your Diary Didn't Help n/t (3+ / 0-)

    Mommy always told me there were no real monsters, but there are -- Newt.

    by fearisthemindkiller on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:26:53 AM PDT

  •  Excellent Writing... (4+ / 0-)

    for a fucking republican blog!

  •  She did her job (8+ / 0-)

    Most Hillary supporters will never like Obama.  Mostly because he beat their girl but part of it is probably cultural as well.  However, they don't have to fall in love with him or even like him.  They just have to vote for him and that is what HRC was trying to do last night.  Show them not how wonderfull Obama is because they don't care.  She was telling them if you believe in what I believe in you have to support him now.

  •  What America has to learn, (6+ / 0-)

    but probably never will, is that elections should be about issues, not personalities. Clinton said that last night; hopefully it got through to some voters.

    " Let us stop, look and listen. Let us not give this president or any president unchecked power. Remember the Constitution." Sen Rob't. Byrd 10/11/02.

    by LEP on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:32:03 AM PDT

  •  How many McCain points for this one? (4+ / 0-)

    You already announced in your previous diary that you weren't going to vote for Obama.

    "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

    by leevank on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:35:18 AM PDT

    •  I don't walk any "party line" but I've never ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      obiterdictum

      voted Republican.

      And never will.

      I am going to vote for Obama. My diary entry was when he voted to allow Bush to keep spying on us, to grant the telecommunications industry immunity and to essentially let everyone who illegally spied on U.S. citizens off the hook. This was after he said he would not only vote against immunity, but would work to filibuster the bill. I think I had reason to be upset. Actually, just thinking about it still upsets me.

      But I'm sorry if my not being a lemming bothers you. Or makes you think I'd ever vote for John McCain.

      Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

      by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:43:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  How dare she (7+ / 0-)

    fail to mention that she had had lunch with Obama and he didn't eat live babies.

    "There is a limit to the legitimate interference of collective opinion with individual independence" - J.S. Mill

    by dmsarad on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:38:52 AM PDT

  •  The only person who... (4+ / 0-)

    would write such a diary has a very low opinion of Barack Obama...Hillary was in-fact speaking to her supporters as Barack Obama could not do and bring the ones who could be influenced back into the fold supporting the nominee Barack Obama...that is exactly what she did in this great speach...any negative interpretation is by lost cause Hillary Haters who have very low opinions of Barack Obama...

    Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:41:34 AM PDT

  •  She could have done a lot of things but.... (2+ / 0-)

    she did what she needed to. Unequivocal support for Obama and challenging her supporters to dig deep to reflect on why they wouldn't support him. That was enough.

  •  Kind of agree with diaryist (6+ / 0-)

    I think she could had said much more to help Obama.

    She said what she had to say , or said just enough , to gain praise.

    Michelle Obama speech was better , but the Clinton's speech may be more important to Obama , eventhough Hillary did not go all out for him.

    I just hope this speech was enough to give Obama a boost at the poll because he badly need it.

    •  Did she say less on Obama's behalf... (0+ / 0-)

      ...than Schweitzer, Warner, Napolitano, or any of the other speakers?

      -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

      by Rich in PA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:17:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  what's that got to do with anything? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sloopydrew

        i.e., what obligation did any of those people have to bring people around to obama?  i don't recall any of them being a long, bitter primary against him.

        "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

        by Cedwyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:29:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now we're getting somewhere...somewhere bad! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gavrik

          Running against Obama is, once more, a sin in need of expiation.  This kind of thinking is just rubbish, and whenever I wonder why I invoked Stalinism in my screeds a few months ago, this is what I keep coming back to.  

          -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

          by Rich in PA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:39:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  HRC's sins, now featured in McCain commercials. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cedwyn, sloopydrew

            Please don't pretend like running in itself was the problem.  It was the negative campaign that encompassed what HRC knew would be the republican talking points against democrats, inflamed culture war divisions and asserted McCain was more qualified than Obama.

            I know that it's hard for HRC fans identify the mere fact of a contest with scorched earth, so you think that somehow Clinton's being "punished" by being forced to back the nominee for the "sin" of running.

            But somehow there were all these other candidates and their supporters who managed to contest Obama without creating long lasting bitterness and questions about what the fuck they are up to NOW.

             

            McCain Plan for Economy: US to divorce first wife, marry rich heiress nation.

            by Inland on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:58:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  She didn't address the sense of grievance (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sloopydrew

        The feeling that many of her supporters have that she was somehow cheated out of the nomination. I am appreciative of her speech and her efforts as a surrogate for Barack this summer, but until she addresses the misperception that she was wronged or that the nomination was somehow denied to her by the party leaders because she is a woman and takes responsibility for the shortcomings of her campaign this sense of grievance will persist among her supporters. And I am not convinced she doesn't want it to.

        •  I don't think she wants to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          democrattotheend

          The feeling that many of her supporters have that she was somehow cheated out of the nomination. I am appreciative of her speech and her efforts as a surrogate for Barack this summer, but until she addresses the misperception that she was wronged or that the nomination was somehow denied to her by the party leaders because she is a woman and takes responsibility for the shortcomings of her campaign this sense of grievance will persist among her supporters. And I am not convinced she doesn't want it to.

          If she wanted that to happen, it would have happened. I don't think Hillary has much -- if any -- interest in Obama becoming President. It's her actions, rather than her words, that need to be examined -- and her actions haven't been the actions of someone that's 100% behind a candidate. I feel she has an interest in making sure people think she did her "all" to make him President, and if it doesn't work, they come running to her in 2012.

          Wow, do I hope Obama wins this thing in November. I'd be happy to never see another Bush OR Clinton in the White House ever again. It's been 28 years of those two dynasties. Let's move on.

          Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

          by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:14:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Read the diarists history... (0+ / 0-)

    a non-Obama supporter...that would be a troll here...

    Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:45:46 AM PDT

    •  sloopydrew is not a troll (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sloopydrew, 3goldens

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:48:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is what sloopydrew said... (4+ / 0-)

        in a previous diary ...

        After 15 hours straight of thinking about this without sleep, rest or pause of any sort I have decided that I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Senator Barack Obama for President of the United States of America.

        That is not a DKos supporter of Obama that we can trust

        Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:07:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I gather he was upset (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sloopydrew, 3goldens

          which lead him to post stuff that he now says was emotion talking and which he retracts. I'll take him at his word and give props for not deleting the diary.

          shrug

          Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

          by bumblebums on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:11:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  he was upset for 15 hours straight (0+ / 0-)

            without rest, apparently.

            Mommy always told me there were no real monsters, but there are -- Newt.

            by fearisthemindkiller on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:12:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sloopydrew, 3goldens

              Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

              by bumblebums on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:15:45 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The point is not whether this diarist is a troll (0+ / 0-)

                or not, or if 15 hours straight being angry constitutes a moment of emotional outburst.

                The point is this:  DailyKos is most effective as a corrective towards the bias and lies of the MSM.  Diaries that re-enforce, rather than countermand, these biases are not useful, and are distraction.

                This diary plays right into the meme of the MSM that they are using to undermine Obama in this election.

                Mommy always told me there were no real monsters, but there are -- Newt.

                by fearisthemindkiller on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:19:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I highly doubt the MSM (0+ / 0-)

                  has any interest in informing people about the whole domestic spying thing. Or that they'd be shocked a Liberal from the Daily Kos was opposed to U.S. Citizens being spied upon. And the diary above is not incendiary or sensationalist. I doubt the MSM would be interested.

                  Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

                  by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:24:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, I'm still upset, but I'm voting (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              democrattotheend, 3goldens

              for Obama.

              Again, it was very justifiable to be upset. Barack Obama, prior to voting for the bill, was very upset by it. So upset he said he would filibuster the thing. The part of the diary I take back is the "I'm not voting for him" section. McCain scares the hell out of me and I really do like Barack Obama as a candidate.

              Bubblebums is right to notice I didn't delete the diary. It is a DIARY. It was my thoughts and feelings at the time. I'm not ashamed by them, but have altered them -- just like Barack altered his thoughts and feelings over the whole FISA thing.

              But look, what matters in the end is whether or not I'm supporting and voting for Barack Obama. I am doing both.

              Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

              by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:17:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I meant BUMBLEbums ... (0+ / 0-)

                not "Bubblebums."

                My rhyming mind went into thoughts of "bubble gum."

                Sorry about that, Bumble.

                Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

                by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:18:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Your diary about Hillary's speech... (0+ / 0-)

                continues to show how weak and ineffective Obama is and will be as a leader...that is the only interpretation I can give this diary which is way off base...

                Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                by dvogel001 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:51:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  please stop throwing accusations of "troll" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sloopydrew, 3goldens, obiterdictum, gavrik

      about so cavalierly.  i've half a mind to start troll rating troll accusations on sight.  

      trust me - statistically speaking, it's just not possible for everyone accused of being a troll to actually be a troll.  we just don't get * that * many of them.

      "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

      by Cedwyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:33:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Find another focus for your life (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rich in PA

    It does not NEED to be empty just because it is not filled with Hillary-hate.  That is a choice you really can make.

    Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

    by dhonig on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:15:18 AM PDT

  •  I hate to say it, but I have to partly agree (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sloopydrew, 2questions

    She said all the right things to get the pundits to say that she had done her part and can't be blamed if Obama loses, and she did give a great delivery. I liked her speech, but after reading the reactions at TalkLeft I was discouraged. It seems that her speech did more to re-endear Obama's supporters to her than it did to convince her supporters to get behind Obama. If anything, it seemed to make some of them wish she was the nominee even more and more resolute about waiting for 2012.

    I'm not saying that's her fault...it's true that there's only so much she can do to get them to come along, and I think Obama does maybe need to do a better job at sucking up to her superdelegates and donors and party leaders who supported her. But I can't help but feel that maybe we are falling all over ourselves to praise her too quickly. It was a great speech, and she herself has been publicly very classy since conceding. But when every other story in the media is about someone close to her being unsatisfied with Obama, it makes it hard to trust her and believe that she really wants him to win.

    She made a strong case for her supporters to get on board, but the one thing I thought was missing from the speech was something addressing the sense of grievance and unfairness her supporters feel. I wish she had said something like "I know that many people who voted for me and volunteered for me are disappointed. It was a hard-fought primary, but at the end of the day, Senator Obama ran an incredible campaign, and he earned the right to address you on Thursday as the Democratic nominee". Something to essentially make it clear to her supporters that he won fair and square and she wasn't wronged.

    When she fails to say that, and when stories kept coming out last week that made her look like the victim for not being vetted (which she apparently did not want unless Obama was almost certain to pick her), it's hard not to think that she still wants them to feel that she was wronged, and doesn't care if that perception hurts Obama's chances. I would really like to see her give an interview where she addresses some of this, and takes responsibility for the shortcomings of her campaign rather than allowing this sense that she was somehow wronged to continue. I'm sorry if I sound overly critical, but I can't shake this feeling of uneasiness after reading TalkLeft and other blogs last night.

  •  vote Obama is precisely her message (0+ / 0-)

    It didn't deliver anything on a personal level about Barack Obama. It said, "Vote Obama."

    I think that was the point. We've had the Kennedys and the Clintons telling the world that Barack Obama is going to be the next president of the United States.

    In general, there are some concerns I have about Clinton, after all, I didn't vote for her, but if 'Hillary didn't help' is the result of the evening, I say great (after all, there are much worse headlines than that).  Obama isn't trying to catch up.

    He's way ahead. A boring, non-eventful endorsement by the former First Lady and contender for the party's nomination whose supporters are supposedly causing all this drama sounds pretty good. You think some impassioned love-note would have come across as more effective?

    •  No time for love (0+ / 0-)

      You think some impassioned love-note would have come across as more effective?

      No, of course not. But I think she's convinced her biggest supporters that Obama, Dean & Co. STOLE this from her. That she actually won this thing. And she made some spiteful comments that are being used by McCain in attack ads. She can still deliver a great speech, but she needs to let her supporters know -- BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT -- that Barack won this thing fair and square that it was organizational problems and overconfidence that lost it for her campaign. She needs to start reminding people she agreed NOT to count Michigan and Florida. Until she clears this up, she has done nothing for Barack Obama.

      Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

      by sloopydrew on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:17:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  do you think it would have helped for her to say (0+ / 0-)

        contrary to the belief of my 18 million supporters I dont think Obama stole this nomination from me, even though THEY do???

        the message she was there to deliver was VOTE FOR OBAMA...  our nation and your kids futures are at stake and it wont be pretty for either if you continue to withhold your support from OUR PARTY NOMINEE.

        Her sub-message was to those that spent the last 18 months supporting and working for me McCAIN is NOT A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE!!!

        it was a clear and succinct message and she delivered it well.  As rachel Maddow wisely pointed out "THOSE THAT WERE REACHABLE WERE REACHED"...there was absolutely nothing HRC could have said that would have reached the UNREACHABLES.

        OIL UBER ALLES says "MORE WARS" McCain

        by KnotIookin on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:34:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "the Democrat convention"? (0+ / 0-)
    You should change your moniker to sloppydrew.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:15:14 AM PDT

  •  At first I kind of agreed with you (0+ / 0-)

    ...but on further reflection I think she did as much as she could.

    This was about her addressing her supporters and her main pitch was that McCain is NOT acceptable to her and to anyone who really believed in her.

    I really liked her "Were you in it just for me" line because I think it gets to the heart of the matter.

    So sure she could have spent the whole time praising Barack and saying he won fair and square, but I think that might have alienated her supporters more than convinced them.

    It would have sounded fake and they would have felt disrespected by the DNC. They would probably assume Obama forced her to sing his praises.

    This speech made them feel good, proud and included in the Democratic Party. It was issues based and appealed to their love and respect for Hillary C.

    So I don't know how many of the hold outs it moved, but it was probably the right way to go.

    Also what an excellent speech and VERY well delivered!

  •  Well, I don't disagree on the content (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sloopydrew

    but she was specifically talking to her own delegates/supporters, who want to her her blend why they liked her with the fight they are now called to do.

    Those other points....talking more about Barack and slamming McCain....should still come, as I feel HRC owes it to the nation to spend the next couple months campaigning to refute the commercials now featuring her and undo the damage she did during the primary campaign.

    McCain Plan for Economy: US to divorce first wife, marry rich heiress nation.

    by Inland on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:51:10 AM PDT

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