Daily Kos

Open Thread for Night Owls & Early Birds

Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:25 PM PDT

A century and a half ago in Internet time, during the first flowering of political blogging, I found myself devouring a lot of outstanding writers and thinkers. Some have now burned out, or departed the scene for sadder reasons, but many have continued, growing in stature and skill. At the top of my list from the beginning was (and is) digby. Clever, original, provocative, refreshingly unclichéd, and progressive to the marrow, she has epitomized the benefits of this new form of media and offered a moral center. Even when I disagree with her take on some subject - not all that often - I've been able to count on her to spur me think, to look at an issue or person or political history in a new way.

Most of all, she makes me - everyone who regularly reads her, I believe - ponder the big picture. No matter which presidential candidate you support (she and I disagree on this), or what your specific point of view is on a particular imbroglio, or where you stand on any one of the panoply of issues progressives have been talking about for the past several decades, digby has a record for hitting the bullseye more often than anybody in wwwLand. She resonates.

Her Hear Ye, Hear Ye piece Wednesday morning provides a perfect example. I'm going to break the rules and quote her at length:

So I hear that Village High Commissioner Tim Russert declared that we have a Democratic nominee. The Town Crier, Drudge, immediately followed with an official announcement The real leadership of our nation --- the punditocricy -- have handed down their decision. Hallelujah! ...

Look, I have the same analysis of the outcome of the elections in Indiana and North Carolina that most people have this morning. Clinton's best argument --- which was essentially that the voters were taking a second look at Obama and showing some buyers remorse --- didn't pan out last night. And there's nothing wrong with political junkies sitting around the virtual pot-bellied stove and saying the race is "over" or exhorting her to drop out. We're citizens and, in some cases, political players. There is, however, something unbelievably distasteful about a handful of powerful, millionaire, celebrity pundits "declaring" such a thing and having the paper of record breathlessly report it as if it was decisive and meaningful.

Who the fuck anointed Tim Russert as the final arbiter of anything? His job is to analyze the political landscape not declare the decision as if he were some kind of Roman Emperor giving a thumbs up or thumbs down. It's bad enough that these gasbags put those thumbs on the scale as hard as they do, but actually taking the initiative to say when the race is over is even worse. To coin a favorite Village phrase, "it's not their place." ...

But if it is the end, as I think many of us suspect, it's for Senator Clinton to be the one to declare it, not Tim Russert or any other fatuous overpaid Village gasbag who is no more insightful or informed than any of you.

The idea floating around, even in the blogosphere, that once Tim Russert "says it" it's true is so galling that I can hardly keep from projectile vomiting. Giving him that power will come back to bite us hard down the road. ...

I think we all see the writing on the wall. Obama has plenty of money and there is no great problem if this thing goes on for a couple of weeks. I think everyone should relax about the campaign and start regrouping around the ideas that brought us here --- one of which is the fact that the mainstream media are tools, that Drudge is a Republican pimp and that our nation is not well served by a bunch of corporate whores who all sit around sipping mojitos on Nantucket playing with our politics like they are a rousing game of cribbage.

Indeed. Political blogging has come a long way in the past half decade. Some people have gotten famous for it. Quit their day jobs. And some already-famous folks - journalists and pundits and others - have become become bloggers, at least as supplements to their regular gigs.

But this transformation and legitimization ought not to obscure progressive bloggers from our roots.

We emerged because the megamedia - the oligopress, the pundithugs, the corporatist whoredom of propaganda - were lying to us, and when they weren't lying, they were omitting the truth. Not that there weren't and aren't a few truthseekers embedded in the megamedia, folks who actually take their role as reporters and investigators seriously and behave accordingly. But, as a whole, the megamedia were and continue to be conduits for ideological reinforcement. In short, brainwashers. Doing the job prescribed to them by the powers-that-be, even if they think they are doing something else. Not every pawn realizes it is one. The writings of Antonio Gramsci are relevant in this regard, but save that for another time.

Keep what digby says in mind. Even when they agree with us, smile at us, quote us, invite us on their shows, the megamedia moguls are not our friends nor the friend of the politics we espouse. They never will be. We ignore this at our peril.

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The Overnight News Digest is posted.

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Tags: digby, Open Thread for Night Owls & Early Birds (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 254 comments

  •  I've been drinking (6+ / 0-)

    can I make the first comment?

  •  digby rocks. (10+ / 0-)

    meteor blades rocks.

    i must make frosting.  

    •  You frost rocks? (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      OLinda, mcfly, jlms qkw

      © sardonyx; all rights reserved

      by sardonyx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Digby totally rocks. Like awesomely, dude. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      123frenchwine

      But seriously (and I meant that seriosusly--Digby IS fab!), this is what troubles me about Rachel Maddow pal-ing up too much with MSNBC.  Even if her biggest bud IS Olbermann, who I respect tremendously, I fear she is getting infected by Scarborough and Buchanan and those other Republican and Republican-lite hacks from Newsweek.

      -7.88, -6.72. "Wherever law ends, tyranny begins."--John Locke IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!!!

      by caseynm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:50:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is always the risk of co-option. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ruthhmiller

        I think Rachel is smart enough to know how to use the media. Katrina Vandheuval of the Nation is also on. So far I see neither sucking up. We'll see. Keith, on the other hand, is a ratings driven egomaniac as much as I disagree with him.

      •  Why all the "simul casting" with AAmerica? (0+ / 0-)

        Is it an attempt to shift viewers/listeners over to THEIR corporate media?  RM being seen as a way of bringing over a following?

        Take what's been cultivated, develop a credible spokesperson, and then bring in the new vewers based on that.

        We have a 2 way conversation that is productive very often. Why on earth do we go back to 1 way transmission of information controlled by the billion dollar corporations whose #1 reason for doing or allowing anything is the basic rule of growing and keeping their monopoly?

        The effort is to "mainstream" or round off the sharp edges of RM. that's what it looks like. She isn't quite acceptable yet to be "trusted" with a main corporate  streaming job.

        The best reason to support Barack Obama is not his ideas, his oratory nor his background. It's his genius for leadership.

        by Pete Rock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:08:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  well yeah (11+ / 0-)

    but noting the power of the Russerts of the world is not the same thing as agreeing that they should have that power.  

    I doubt many Obama supporters are under any illusion that the corporate media is anything but our enemy after the Pennsylvania debate debacle and the month of wall-to-wall Rev. Wright.

    I am aware of all internet traditions

    by mcfly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:55:34 PM PDT

    •  Who even watches Russert/Tweety, etc.? (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mcfly, gansterr, jlms qkw, Coach Jay

      Seems like most Democrats know better, and Republicans are glued to FOX.

      •  I don't (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Leap Year, netguyct, jlms qkw, ArtSchmart

        watch any of that crap, I get my news from the blogs and checking the RSS feed of major newspapers.  

        But it's still important to know what the Tweetys of the world are up to, and they still have a lot of influence over the process.  Wishing them away won't make them go away.

        I am aware of all internet traditions

        by mcfly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:08:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, that's the sad thing. (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mcfly, netguyct, jlms qkw

          They certainly are able to help the broader media decide what the "story" will be, which usually means steering discussion away from policy and onto frivlous matters like pastors or pantsuits. It's all one big happy insiders' club.

          •  which is one of the reasons ... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            jlms qkw

            I launched my store with my friend.

            Ok, this is a gratuitous pimp of my store, but we just finished the site and added several new products, all of which were born from the frustration with media.

            I've been doing the wicked late nights all week, and we just finished tonight.

            I'd appreciate some feedback... and some customers of course!
            www.gotta-yell-it.com

            thanks!

            Obama, anti-McSame, and 50% off all IMPEACH static cling window decals@ gotta-yell-it.com

            by netguyct on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:36:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  but then you miss the speculation (0+ / 0-)

        on if Hillary will be VP.  Dick Morris says Obama is insane if he offers it to Hillary. He also says the problem with Hillary is that she is invincible in her mind, dating back to questions of if she were going to be indicted, if Bill would be reelected. if Bill would be impeached, on to if she could be Senator from a state she had never lived in.  In all cases, when all looked lost, she managed to triumph.

        He said she thinks the same thing will happen again, some sort of magic will strike and make everything all right because she is fated to be President.  

        •  Well if the toe-sucker says it (0+ / 0-)

          it must be true! </snark>

          Seriously, I'll take the coporate establishment punditocracy's wisdom over any Fox hack any damn day of the week -- and twice on Sunday.

          Myanmar/Burma = New Orleans. In more ways than one. Do the math.

          by caul on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:03:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  If you don't watch you miss the spectacle (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mcfly

      Tonight Rush is making the rounds of Fox, telling his Dittos to turn out in the Democratic primaries and to vote for Obama.
      Wait a minute, Operation Kaos was supposed to have Dittos keeping Hillary alive and viable right into the convention, right? Only after IN and NC, some dittos began suspecting that Rush had turned out Obama's core support for him, giving him a landslide in NC.  As Rush began to see that his opinion may actually affect an election (though not as he would like), he changed his tune.

      Now his tune is to turn out for Obama. Operation Kaos wants the primaries to be over so McCain can start working Obama over on the issues.  Rush says now Operation Kaos will put Obama over the top.

      Most interesting was his discussion of what issues McCain should stress: not economics, not foreign policy, not social issues, but Obama's reverend. Rush says Obama is clearly unqualified to be President and he flirts with saying it is pigmentation that disqualifies him. My bet is that Rush sooner or later starts with Obama's genetic inability to be a leader.    

      •  I would expect that there are many Dittoheads (0+ / 0-)

        in West Virginia. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

        •  If there are, then Obama should have a (0+ / 0-)

          landslide or else Rush is showing himself to be the ineffectual, intellectually bankrupt person many people suspect.  Actually he has sunk his own demographic argument about why Dittos are not showing up in great numbers in the Great GOP Migration to the Democrats; by switching Democrats, he will either move the demographics or else show he is bluster and oxy.

          BTW Fox is now making reference to McCain Democrats and noting that they are less educated, less skilled, less successful etc. At what point do these people realize they are being insulted by the Fox pundits?

      •  Rush-ing across the Al Campanis line nt (0+ / 0-)

        A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow

        by ActivistGuy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:58:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thor's Day OND (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, Simplify, jlms qkw

    Sid has tonight's Overnight News Digest.

  •  I am taking a break (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, jlms qkw

    I am going to read some blogs.

    Too many people have died.

    by Blue387 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:56:22 PM PDT

    •  you are reading a blog (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Gooserock, Leap Year

      right now.  

    •  I just read Talk Left for the first time in a (0+ / 0-)

      long while.  The people there appear to have gone actively nuts.  They'd now grudgingly accept Obama as Hillary's VP; they think that it insults Hillary even to talk about her asking her to be on a Unity Ticket (good!); they'll vote for McCain; there was no mention anywhere I saw of Hillary's "hard working white voters" comments.  The good thing is that I think that the Clintonista netroots are going to be harder to win over than the public as a whole.  They seem to put a lot more energy into being aggrieved than regular voters, who lack a feedback loop, do.

      But I have to say, I think I'm going to be looking up people's names for a long time after this contest to see "what they did in the war."  Read that diary link to see why.

      John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

      by Seneca Doane on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:48:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I disagree with her on some of this post. (19+ / 0-)

    We should try not to extend Russert's power, but we can't just will ourselves into a world in which he doesn't play a large role in setting the narrative. There may be a hard-to-strike balance there. But what I heard from bloggers was "the media narrative has turned, and that's a powerful thing." Not "Russert says it, so it must be true."

    •  As I posted on another blog last night (5+ / 0-)

      I don't watch cable television news. It doesn't serve me and I don't gain anything from it.

      But me walling myself off from it doesn't mean I can discount it, because many people watch it. Their only reason for watching it may be simply that it's on, but they do watch.

    •  Bingo. (11+ / 0-)

      Murdoch, Viacom, Disney, and GE are not and cannot be our friends, but they do set the narrative in ways that are all too familiar--the filtering of content, repetition, pure propaganda, etc.

      The narrative has turned.  Everyone I talked to today "knew" that it was over, yet none of the metrics have changed since WI.  

      That is verification of how powerful they are.

      Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

      by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:02:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't agree with you on that (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades, Creosote, jlms qkw

      My view is - so what if "the media narrative" is changing in Obama's favor? "The media narrative" regardless of whether it happens to achieve the correct conclusion at any given time - is determined by talking heads who don't speak with any authority.

      The very existence of "narrative" is something I thought we were supposed to be fighting. The whole point of narrative is to create a storyline and fit the facts to that storyline, is that not correct?

      John McCain goes to bed every night after servicing by Joe Lieberman.

      by bhagamu on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:14:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One person's narrative is another's authority (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jlms qkw

        The problem is, a great deal of people watch the news "because it's on" and accept is as true journalism.

      •  the problem MSM has is already experienced in i (0+ / 0-)

        print media; fewer readers or viewers. The blogs are their enemies as I can read Israeli or Palestinian or Lebanese or Egyptian news to get an idea of what is going on there instead of waiting for a beauty queen to feed me my daily dose of intellectual pablum.  

        FoxNews reported that the head of al Qaeda in Iraq had been captured (though an earlier screen crawl reported he had been killed) but even Fox admitted there have been multiple false reports of his capture or death. They did not mention that the #2 guy has probably already taken over.

        They did mention fighting at Beirut between Sunni and Shia' militia.  Now I thought the conflict was between the Lebanese army (trained by us) and Hizbullah and that the proWestern government was dominated by Christians, as provided in the Lebanese constitution.  Why would the Sunni be involved or did they mean to say Druze militia were involved in the fighting against Hizbullah? Or is it just easier to frame every ME conflict in the same terms so your viewers don't get confused?

    •  What I heard from a lot of bloggers ... (7+ / 0-)

      ...in various places, but also right here in the Diaries of Daily Kos was (paraphrasing) yea Russert! yea Drudge! The media narrative is a powerful thing. We need to be examining both why they waited so long to turn, and why they chose this moment to turn, and what is likely to be their next turn, instead of saying: oooh! Look. They agree with us.

      I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

      by Meteor Blades on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:17:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But with a Democratic President (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jlms qkw

        We (Dems) will control the narrative (not totally, but much more so).

      •  Hey Blades! I'll play devil's advocate here and (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jlms qkw

        take a stab and why I think this process needed to be exhausted for both the media and Obama's sakes.

        If all of her arguments were not exhausted, if there were traces of real misogynistic media behavior that seemed to 'call it' sooner than was evident, if it appeared that the election was 'given' to Obama....

        A resulting President Obama will always have been seen as the Affirmative Action candidate that was 'given' the presidency.

        Hindsight being 20/20, this trial by fire was the best thing that could have happened.  No one can credibly say that he has done anything but worked for this nomination and THAT is a good thing for the first black President.  The media could not be caught with their pants down on this and so they entertained her moving the goal posts ad nauseam.

        "To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze

        by ILean Left on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:43:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is that along the lines Hannity is using (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Meteor Blades, ILean Left

          that he has objections to Obama that are race based but not racist?  That the media had annointed the Democratic nominee and had already been laying out the GE in their playbooks when Obama came out of left field?

          Of course the distinction Hannity is making is a false one but one intended to innoculate the RW against charges of racism whenever they interject race into the GE and also give the RW the chance to accuse the LW of racism for even daring to accuse the RW of racism.  After 7 years of the same old same old. it is no longer even comical.

          However, we have already seen the meme that the Left is basically racist and even on Kos have seen people decrying reverse discrimination and Black racism. However when asked to provide a personal example of how they were discriminated against because of a Black or how many whites have the NAACP lynched, crickets chirping is the only sound.  

          •  I'd love to engage your thoughts here (0+ / 0-)

            ...but I'm unclear as to your point - no snark intended at all.

            I was simply saying that the Obama campaign is the better for having weathered this storm.  The MSM will be what it is, no doubt, but no one can say they were taking it easy on BHO after a month+ of the good Rev's greatest hits!

            Just offering a "lemons to lemonade" perspective as I'm surely not letting the MSM off of the hook.

            "To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze

            by ILean Left on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:43:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  referring to "affirmative action candidate" (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Meteor Blades, ILean Left

              reference; I have not heard that term used on RW talkshows yet but it seems to be coming as the pundits continue to beat up on affirmative action and reverse discrimination. I can imagine Rush or Savage or their jr league versions making the argument that Obama won because of white guilt or affirmative action on the part of Howard Dean.  

              My point is that the RW always begin a themed campaign by first innoculating themselves (hey its about race but I am not a racist) and then by using linguistic jujitsu (however, it is about Black racism and reverse discrimination) and from there they feel that they are safe to discuss things in frankly racist terms and not get called on it.

              This is the pattern Jesse Helms used prior to launching his "White Hands" ad against Harvey Gantt.

              •  Gotcha, and agreed. (0+ / 0-)

                I put nothing past the RW talking heads - they are so gutter.

                But because Obama has had such an awful month worth of news cycles and still rose, I think he will be better equipped to defeat the 'Affirmative Action candidate' argument.

                Talking about being counted out... after Wright broke into the headlines via YouTube, you heard "He's finished!"  After Wright's personal appearances, you heard "He's done!"  After Ayers, "This will be tough for Obama."  And then Bittergate, "This is the deathnail for a dem candidate."

                But he's still standing.  Their 1000 pages of opposition research the Rs have on BHO will surely come to light, but they will have to pull out the pages that speak to him somehow having gotten a 'pass.'

                "To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze

                by ILean Left on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:27:18 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Why they waited so long (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Gooserock

        is a question for which the answer, in part, would probably get me banned. Let's just say some very powerful people were banking on Hillary to fix and finish the job Cheney and Rumsfeld so completely fucked up while preventing a Democratic revolt.

      •  U know.they were for Hillary, then people voted (0+ / 0-)

        The Wright controvery will die so they can try to get inside the Obama campaign/administration.  This kind of posturing, revenge, and lack of objectivity is what is wrong with our media.  But it should be a mirror in our face.  This is who we are...even here.    

      •  the reason is (0+ / 0-)

        They chose now because it was absolutely clear after N.C. and IN that Obama will be the nominee. They found out that Wright didnt have that much of an effect; that Obama did great even with Operation Kaos skewing the results.  

        •  Operation K.A.O.S. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          algebrateacher

          has Rush changing his tune: Dittos should vote for Obama to end the primaries so McCain can start beating up on him.  As the German general ordered his troops after the Battle of the Bulge "Advance to the Rhine quickly!" Rush has never lost a battle.

          BTW, in referring to his Operation K.A.O.S. I am hoping Rush will "Get Smart".  

          •  I wonder if Rush saw an advanced screening (0+ / 0-)

            of the new "Get Smart" movie and just couldn't get it out of his head.

            I saw an advanced screening of it.  Good, sometimes very funny, but needed some editting.

            No, we cannot tolerate even a one-term McCain presidency.

            by algebrateacher on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:38:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  we can't just will ourselves (8+ / 0-)

      into a world in which he doesn't play a large role?

      What do you think we're doing here? What do you think Media Matters is doing?

      I'm not sure how you're defining "will" here, but here's Webster's:

      "to determine by an act of choice"

      I choose to limit Tim Russert's "role in setting the narrative" by challenging his credibility, calling him on his biases, and trying to use the web to build awareness of how wrong it is in a democracy to give so much power to so few.

      I do not seek to strike a balance. I  seek to recreate the media landscape, with the help of others of course, to one where the Tim Russert's of the world are sent off to retire for the harm they've done our country.

      It may never happen, and if it does, it will take a while. But we will never have a progressive democracy until we wrestle power from the oligarchical press.

      Now, some bloggers are tasting success and want to assimilate into the corporate media environment. They want a taste of power and justify it by thinking they can do some good.

      They can't. And all they're doing is allowing themselves to become media whores too. How does one measure one's whoredom? By asking one's self the next time one is on a corporate media show, 'What should I be saying here but can't because if I do, I know I'll never be invited on again?'

      There is no striking a balance. These people are using our public airwaves as a weapon against us. They refuse to even cover how they were hiring Pentagon propagandists to lie for George Bush and company's war. Why? What are they afraid of?

      Make nice my ass. They need to be defeated. The vision of American democracy the founders - most of them - had in mind needs to be restored. A free press. Allow me to post my picture again.

       title=

      Not all of these people are scumbags. Obviously, there's K.O. and Jon Stewart and Jonathan Alter who is a good one.

      But what they are is a very small crowd for a very big democracy.

      And most of them, 85%, are just whores, willing to come on every day and tow the line for the oligarchs they work for. They serve to protect power.

      What I heard from everyone is, "the media narrative has turned, Tim Russert has spoken, it is over."

      Sheep.

      •  You've said it better than I ever ... (0+ / 0-)

        ...could.

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

        by Meteor Blades on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:20:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  a question for you (0+ / 0-)

        What is your opinion of David Gergen?  I have always thought his comments were incisive, independent and intelligent.  He appears to be an academic who has been paid for advice by both sides in his career, and has alot of insight into American politics.  

        •  Generally agree (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          RubDMC

          I usually watch tv just to monitor their malfeasance. When Gergen's on though I pay attention.

          I actually thought about diarying what he said last night on Anderson Cooper. It was a bit amazing. He was asked if he thought Obama should pick Hillary as his veep. Transcript

          [COOPER]: Very quickly, any chance Hillary Clinton would be a vice-presidential candidate with Barack Obama? Any chance that Barack Obama would want her?

          KLEIN: I think that -- I don't think it's impossible. I mean, I think that she adds a lot of domestic policy expertise and a historic rush of women to vote for her.

          COOPER: David Gergen? Do you agree with that?

          GERGEN: I think people around him think he will need a food taster if he does that.

      •  Our System Is Built To Work This Way (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        TocqueDeville

        One of the greatest dangers facing humanity at this hour is the American system of government's relationship to communication and information.

        It's sick. It's dangerous.

        Think about what justice, what civilization, what the health of the planet requires America to do.

        Think about trying to present these ideas to the electorate.

        If you think you can under this system, go do it.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:33:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So right Gooserock (0+ / 0-)

          I used to think our greatest threat to our democracy was money - how we allow our politicians, judges, DAs to be bribed with campaign cash.

          I thought our second greatest threat was the control of mass communications by the same vested interest who own our politicians and how they use the media to manipulate the public.

          I have now switched the order. It's the media first.

      •  Digby, in the top 10 of influential poltical (0+ / 0-)

        bloggers.

        Screw this list.

    •  it is useful to be able to refute these people (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Simplify

      During Kerry's run, I remember talking to some vets who were repeating the swiftboating (courtesy of Rush on Armed Services Radio) but when they started getting pinned down as to who said what and what did they say at the time and did they even know Kerry and how many guys in your outfit would you trust with your story 30 years later and the worm began to turn as they still think Kerry did the wrong thing after VN but at least admitted the attacks were unfair and even bogus.

    •  Agreed, don't fully agree with this diary (0+ / 0-)

      I saw what these pundits did that night as a great thing, no strings attached. I have not had a TV in years, and have no love for any of those folks, but I heard about all the pundits pundificating that we have a presumptive nominee.

      Like it or not these conglomomediathugonauts still are the main tap for many people to source their info.  Sad but true, (I actually talked to two people who did not know who Reverand Wright was just three days ago...seriously!)

      So when one of these MSM folks finally stops pandering to the Clinton dynastic duo for ratings, it is a very big, very good deal.  I will take anyone saying the right thing anytime for any reason without looking back.

      Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison

      by matthew fogarty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:12:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  media narrative (0+ / 0-)

      I agree.  The narrative is finally changing.  It has been vile for weeks now.

    •  "Counter Journalism" works in this universe (0+ / 0-)

      Since the MSM has abandoned investigative journalism some time back, it is showing up in other places.
      For example, despite the millions of words written about Rev Wright, it seems very few if any actually attended the church or interviewed church members or even joined the church undercover to see what the real deal was. Instead everyone repeated what was said the day before by someone else and Hannity (with no journalistic credentials or experience) was for a time in control of the story.

      This is why Hagee gets a walk. His church is a lot more sinister than the public face presented. However, MSM is not going to take on a megachurch, unless it is for pastoral adultery or financial malfeasance which is clearcut with plenty of factual evidence.

      MSM will not tackle this as being a cult, as surely as the apostate LDS members are (which is getting plenty of media coverage).
      However, we do have a book coming out on Hagee (just in time for GE) and excerpts published online here:

      http://www.alternet.org/...  

      Read it; it will help refute the danger Rev Wright presents to the country as opposed to Rev Hagee.  

    •  It's the MSM that is saying, and will, say (0+ / 0-)

      "Russert says it, so it must be true."  That crowd plus their allies on the web.

      If anything, Digby was making a call to action on the part of the blogging left.  One thing that bloggers do exceptionally well is point out how the Village tries to run things.

      Your point is good because I think that was Digby's point but she...didn't...quite...say...it.

      No, we cannot tolerate even a one-term McCain presidency.

      by algebrateacher on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Removal of Doubt From Narrative... (0+ / 0-)

      ... allows Obama to being to assume a persona of serious candidate, rather than a crippled potential also-ran.  It doesn't make a lick of difference to our world view, but it does to the vast masses of potential voters who are undecided, and whose world views are shaped by the MSM.  No one is going to win this election without the voting support of a large chunk of those voters, so yes, it does matter, whether we like it or not.

      Also, it means the days of Obama being forced to fight  two opponents (three if you include the media) at once are essentially over.  For all of her faults, Hillary Clinton is a far more formidable primary opponent than McCain will be in the general, especially when she follows BillyBob's blueprint of attempting to position herself by occupying the Right's philosophical positions before they have a chance to establish themselves there.

      Of course, this is not going to be the cakewalk it should be, but the shift in focus from "who is going to be the Dem Nominee" "Obama or McCain" should offer a gut level sense of relief on a scale of a resolving migraine for most folks on this board - for good reasons, whether we can fully articulate them (or like them), or not.  Not least among those reasons is the sense that even if Madam Clinton continues to play Political Dominatrix, the media's new indifference has cut the tails off her whip.

      Face it, even if you were supremely confident in the ultimate outcome over the past couple of months, just knowing you don't have to face the cognitive dissonance of the Media Machine constant drone telling you otherwise is like a tall glass of iced tea on a Summer Day in Birmingham.

      "Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal." - Anon

      by Deighved H Stern MD on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:26:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hate to say this, but though I agree with (6+ / 0-)

    her about their general gasbaggery, I've been waiting for mainstream media to "call the time" on this primary election for quite awhile.

    So, while they are unbelievable arrogant in their manner and assuredness and late to boot, I think it was about time.

    But trust them?  No.

    NetrootNews coming soon!

    by ksh01 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:09 PM PDT

  •  what digby said n/t (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    la urracca, GMFORD, jlms qkw

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
    Give to Populista's Obamathon 2.0!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:58:33 PM PDT

  •  But who will tell us what to think? (nt) (6+ / 0-)

    I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

    by Tamifah on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:00:03 PM PDT

  •  One way to help bring the MSM back in line .... (12+ / 0-)

    would be if President Obama were to ask Bill Moyers and Amy Goodman to serve as FCC Commissioners.

    Yes we can, for ... we are one.

    by abarefootboy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:00:04 PM PDT

  •  Simply brilliant: (7+ / 0-)

    Who the fuck anointed Tim Russert as the final arbiter of anything?

    Its something thats been on my mind for many years now...and no one has seemed to be able answer that effectively in any fashion.

  •  word is Edawrds is booked on Today show exclusive (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, takeahike, jlms qkw

    in the morning. And another Hillary SD switched tonight.

    Bipartisanship-I'll hug your elephant if you kiss my ass.

    by foggycity on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:07:08 PM PDT

  •  Steve Soto is featured (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, mcfly, jlms qkw

    in tonight's Top Comments: Steve Soto on Daily Kos, part 1—his 2002 comments are linked to tonight, and tomorrow night stop by for links to all 59 front-page stories Steve wrote.

    © sardonyx; all rights reserved

    by sardonyx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:07:22 PM PDT

  •  all hail la digby! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw

    truth to power.

  •  Gennifer Flowers wants to share (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw

    Tapes of Bill & ..

    " ..
    According to Flowers, she came home the other day, punched the Retrieve button on her answering machine and gasped as she heard the familiar voice of that same man, Bill Clinton.

    It was, however, only one of those automated campaign phone calls and Bill just wanted to tell Gennifer how much he would really appreciate her support and to vote for his wife, who's ready to become president on "Day One."

    "Now, it's funny," Flowers says in an interview on "Extra" tonight. "At the time it almost gave me a heart attack."
    .. "

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/scandal/

    This time it's personal.

    by apostrophe on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:09:25 PM PDT

  •  thank goodness (4+ / 0-)

    my comment