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Because what would you rather have -- all that useless stuff the EPA does, or $27 extra in your pocket?

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:40 PM PST.


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Comment Preferences

  •  why not give me the freedom (7+ / 0-)

    to hire a taster who works at low wage? you're a commie, laura.

    (econ: -4.73, social: -5.05) | blog | relax, oversensitive libs. i'm usually kidding.

    by amnesiaproletariat on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:41:46 PM PST

  •  Small government served us well in business and (6+ / 0-)

    finance.  Keep it small!!!

    •  big government is needed to control big business (4+ / 0-)

      who else can make the corporate puppet masters show up on a nice day in February and fumble and squirm before us?

      The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. Thomas Jefferson

      by Thea VA on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:44:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  big government is needed to control big business (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CA Nana

        Big government produces nothing except bureaucrats.

        Big business produces goods & services you can choose to either purchase or not.

        Name one thing big government does better than the private sector except waste money.

        •  Yup (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          XOVER, uc booker

          Screw the USPS, Social Security, and Medicare.

          And the FDNY?



          There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Ed Howdershelt

          by Lava20 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:05:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Ok. (10+ / 0-)

          Medicine.  National defense.  Allocation of scarce resources.

          There's three.

          And if you don't think big business produces bureaucrats, try rethinking.  Why do you think health insurance costs so much America?  Any clue?

          Because about 15% of every health insurance company's budget is spent on salaries for people to go through your medical records trying to figure out a way to deny your claim.  If these bean counters are not bureaucrats, what are they?

          To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

          by XOVER on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:05:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wrong again (0+ / 0-)

            Medicine?  Try having a procedure done on medicare or medicaide.  Wait time is typically months if it is not an emergency.  On private insurance, typically days or weeks.
            National Defense: Has to be handled by the government since you wouldn't want independent corporate militias running around. The military however has never been accused of being particularly cost effective however.  If you beg to differ I'd love to hear the argument.
            Allocation of scarce Resources:  Such as what?  Or is your argument more of the standing in the way of production of resources.

            BTW if you know any doctors you'd be able to answer the "why does health insurance cost so much in America" question.  1) Malpractice insurance costs: you know the added slip and fall lawyer tax.  2) State mandated procedures.  If your twenty & healthy you will probably pay more for insurance than you recieve in benefits.  Why? because you're subsidising mandated procedures.  Maybe you want to subsidise chiropractic treatments, infertility treatment & mental health care.  Maybe you don't. It doesn't really matter what you think because you can't purchase a policy that doesn't cover these treatments.

        •  Provides free public education (14+ / 0-)

          medical research
          mass transit
          public sanitation
          public health services
          environmental protection
          the justice system
          national defense
          welfare for the disabled and downtrodden
          low interest college loans
          support for higher education
          the police
          the fire department
          child protective services
          space research
          national energy strategy

          •  Nine BEST words in the English language (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Thea VA

            when you're standing on the wing of a plane that's sinking in the middle of a freezing river

            I'm from the government and I'm here to help

          •  Free Education? Never heard of taxes? (0+ / 0-)

            State pay for public ed via property tax.  States that allow parents to chose the schools for their kids via school vouchers pay lower costs than those states that have no choice.  Regarding the other items on your laundry list:

            roads & bridges: There was a federal highway trust fund that was funded through gasoline taxes to pay for the maintainence & repair of this.  Unfortunately this fund was looted by congree to pay for other things.  That's why "infrastructure spending" is included in the stimulus bill

            medical research: Most medical reaserch is funded by grants from the drug companies.  Govt plays a part but it is small.  It can also be politicised (does stem cell reaserch ring a bell?)

            mass transit: Up here in the Northeast, the train system is constantly subject to funding issues, cutbacks, and lack of capital expenditure.

            public sanitation: Don't know, may be a push.

            public health services: Such as?  Last year there was a shortage of flu shots up here.  

            environmental protection: Name one.

            the justice system &national defense: Has to be done by governmental authority.  State runs by rule of law.

            welfare for the disabled and downtrodden: In reality economic slavery to the state.  Ever tried to get social security disability payments?  Standard resonse is to routinely deny the initial claim.  Why? because SS is runnning out of money, is overworked and understaffed.

            low interest college loans & support for higher education.  Real issue is why cost of education has gone up in price by twice the overall rate of inflation over the last 25 years.  You might as well blame the greedy teachers.

            the police: Has to be gov provided for obvious reasons.
            the fire department: Same
            child protective services: Not even going there
            space research: NASA constantly fights for funding.  R Bransom is working on comercialising space travel.  Any bets on who will succeed first?
            national energy strategy: What strategy?

        •  Were you bored at the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lava20, uc booker

          Reason site? Decided to come over and share your wisdom...

        •  Just (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theunreasonableHUman, uc booker

          an fyi...may need to keep an eye on this one...

          CNN is Uberliberal...alert, alert!

          There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Ed Howdershelt

          by Lava20 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:15:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Did you miss the turn to the Hoover Institute? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          uc booker

          What's with all these moronic freeper trolls who ask idiotic questions answered in the very video they are responding to? Begone, #203156.

        •  Crooks never like (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          uc booker

          ...cops on the beat. Right wingers' terror at what they rant is "world government" stems from the fact that their beloved multinational corporations are scared of being reigned in from their depredations. They want to rule the world.

          "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

          by eyeswideopen on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:48:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Gee, I don't know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          How about:

          1.  Keep our air and water clean?
          1.  Keep peanut butter companies and other food producers from poisoning us?
          1.  Provide disability benefits to those unable to work?
          1.  Prosecute criminals?
          1.  Manage the money supply?
          1.  Compel business owners to maintain workplace safety rules?
          1.  Build our national infrastructure of roads, bridges, sewers, etc?
          1.  Educate children?
          1.  Keep people from starving?

          Don't like any of those?  How about this one:

          1.  Subsidize millionaire bankers who are too greedy and stupid to manage their own investments?

          You have to give me that last one, right?

        •  Nothing But Bureaucrats? (0+ / 0-)

          Do you know what a bureaucrat is?  It is "one who rules from a desk," using words. Words are those things that convey ideas, give directions, offer advice and most important of all, decide things.  You know, like, "Gee, I think you're a crook, Mr. Ponzi. Have fun in Leavenworth, bye bye!" In busines, bureaucrats also thrive.  They decide how big other people's salaries are gonna be. QED.

          Since you ask, one thing that the government does better than private industry is operate large organizations.  Take the Social Security Admin for example.  It costs 20 cents on the dollar to operate an insurance company.  All those bonuses, you know.  It costs less than 2 cents per dollar of total payroll taxes to run the whole SS program serving more than 47 million people. Never missed a payrolll yet and never had a RIF.

          But, I'm wasting my breath. God bless America.  We need it.

          •  About Social Security (0+ / 0-)

            I guess you're unaware of all of the IOU's in the SS trust fund.  Social security is a transfer payment and not social insurance. It is the mother of all ponzi schemes which is why every few years they have to "fix" it by taking in current tax dollars to pay current benefits while improperly accounting for future obligations.  On a cash flow basis, SS will be paying out more money than it takes in by 2015 and by the way, that excess money will be a transfer payment from the young people who are working to the older people who are not.

            You'd be better off taking the 6.5% of your salary and investing it on your own.  That way if you die your family will at least recieve some $ as oppose to $250 which is the death "benefit" for SS.

            SS never missed a payment because they can print the dollars to make the payment.  Wake up.  

          •  Bureaucrat is ? (0+ / 0-)

            Ever been to the motor Vehicle Dept.

            You know sit in the rock hard seat until your number comes up.  Waste half a day.

            Keep that thought in your head while you think about that system with the ability to spend $900 billion.

            Do you honestly think they'll provide really great oversight on where that money goes?

            Or do you suspect that they will shovel it out the door & say NEXT.

  •  they are just material for... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, beltane


    oh how low they've put themselves.


    Dear Mr. President, There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three.
    P.S. I am not a crackpot.
    -Abe Simpson

    by fromer on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:42:15 PM PST

  •  Want some cognitive dissonance? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Wolf Of Aquarius

    I wanna quote another British poet.

    by Lazar on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:42:39 PM PST

  •  Guess who I am? (12+ / 0-)

    I want to cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes....

    (oh, and get rid of the unions too!)

    Answer:  All Republicans

    Moderation in all things-NOT

    by Julie Gulden on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:42:48 PM PST

  •  But, but, but--that $27 in my pocket... (10+ / 0-)

    ...can help me stimulate the economy! By buying $27 worth of LATTES, or something!


    I'm walking to fight autism! Please support Team Hope's efforts here.

    by boofdah on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:42:57 PM PST

  •  Work for Gov't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fumie, Julie Gulden, Lava20

    Let's just give everyone a job in DC and benefits like Congress gets.

    "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

    by Blutodog on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:43:12 PM PST

    •  Plenty of government jobs around the country. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, Lava20, COkdub

      There are several different regional centers which employ thousands of government workers.

      They don't all work in DC.

      That said, I'd take a job in DC or in one of the regional centers -- DC if it was a GS-9 or above, anywhere else, a GS-6 or above would be OK.

      "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

      by Brooke In Seattle on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:56:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Weird Wisconsin Phenomenon (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I've heard this twice in the last couple of weeks on my local public radio station: That the state Department of Workforce Development has hired >80 new employees to staff the positions required to process unemployment insurance applications....

        ...and I never know whether to laugh or to cry

        "It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important." Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Arabiflora on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 10:15:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  But that's not a "real" job (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      according to RNC's Steele

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:11:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  But with that $27 you could buy (8+ / 0-)

    a lottery ticket and maybe even win and become a multi-millionaire. And then you shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all. Also, the EPA is a communist hippie agency created by Al Gore and George Soros.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:44:52 PM PST

  •  LOL (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sdf, Julie Gulden, beltane, Lava20
    SMALL GOVERNMENT - i giggled at the voice modification
    •  I checked out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the website of the group that made this video  I'm sorry I hadn't heard of it earlier, it's very well done and a key point that needs to be made.  One silver lining of truly awful regimes is that they can lead to a change in paradigms.  Perhaps the era of not thinking government could do any good is starting to be put behind us.  The stimulus may, perhaps, be the first of several important moments in this change.

      -- Stu

  •  Good question... (6+ / 0-)

    Clean air, water, and enforcment of environmental laws, or 27 bucks?  

    Well, we know what the GOP voters would choose.  

    The era of big government is over...Bill Clinton...

  •  You can't get Joe the Plumber for $27 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Uberbah, divineorder

    Behind every great man, there's a woman saying "Stand up straight"

    by captainlaser on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:46:10 PM PST

  •  I like Big Government and I cannot Lie (10+ / 0-)

    "I gotta rec that sh*t, even though it is completely tasteless and rude." ... "luntz and his cretinous kabal are paid bloggers from AIPAC."

    by DemocraticLuntz on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:46:29 PM PST

  •  That's $27 for you or me... (0+ / 0-)

    but about 27¢ in taxes if you're a corporate executive or lobbyist... that is if you are somehow can't figure out how to to not pay any taxes at all.

  •  while imperfect the stimulus bill is amazing (5+ / 0-)

    who would have thought that so much money would be spent by our government on the real needs of real people? regardless of the fact that we can find fault with this or that this is still such an amazing turn around from the "let them eat cake" approach of the past decade or so that i am going to permit myself to savor it and believe that we really are getting somewhere as a nation after years and years of having to listen to greed mongers and promoters of scrooge philosophy. there is a long way to go but our new president has opened the flood gates to build a new tomorrow.

    •  It is? (4+ / 0-)

      I guess I'll believe it when I see it.

      I want to know how that money will be distributed, how the people to be hired will BE hired, what kind of employment hoops they will have to jump through and how much they will be paid, and what kinds of jobs will result from all the spending.

      I want to know if they are going to expand benefits to people who aren't yet getting them or just pay the people already receiving them more money.

      I want a job, doing something that I know how to do right now. I can't spend two more years in school and all the tuition money and living expenses it would take only to be told that all those jobs are gone now.

      I want HUGE government to come along and hire me and people like me, those of us who already have degrees and because of our age or our specialization can't get hired in anything outlined in any of the stimulus info that I've seen. Private industry doesn't want us. Otherwise, we'd already be working.

      I want to see a massive hiring program putting people back to work, not just payouts continuing the status quo.

      Until then, we may keep some people from falling off the ledge, but those of us who are already in free fall need help too. Now.

      "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

      by Brooke In Seattle on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:11:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i too hope you get a good job. best of luck. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brooke In Seattle
      •  You say you want to know, but have you (0+ / 0-)

        done anything to find out? Like, say, read the bill?

        not just payouts continuing the status quo

        Um, you really need to read the bill and get a clue.

      •  What-- You can't lay concrete? (0+ / 0-)

        That was snark, btw.

        I've also been struck by the short-sighted emphasis on shovel-ready programs, it is as if the designers expect that english majors or programmers-- or finance/economics professionals will be in any way relieved that a new highway by-pass project will relieve them of their current or future "redundancy" (read: unemployment).

        "It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important." Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Arabiflora on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Laura, you forget that without the Depression (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, JugOPunch

    Dorothea Lange would have never taken those photos.

    Behind every great man, there's a woman saying "Stand up straight"

    by captainlaser on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:50:38 PM PST

  •  Who? Why Raytheon and the other (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    corporate welfare deadenders, thats who.

    WASHINGTON — The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to confirm William Lynn as deputy defense secretary, endorsing President Barack Obama's decision to waive ethics regulations by putting a former defense lobbyist in charge of day-to-day operations at the Pentagon.
    McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he was disappointed that Obama would backtrack on his promise to keep lobbyists out of the federal government. Despite his reservations, McCain voted in favor of Lynn.

    On his first day in office, Obama issued an executive order forcing individuals to wait two years before they could be hired for the agencies they had lobbied and to remove themselves from involvement in issues related to their former employers.

    "Obviously the American people were promised one thing but delivered another," said McCain, Obama's opponent in the 2008 presidential election.
    Ha Ha Ha McCain, more sour grapes.

    Too bad I agree with him on this. Makes me sick.
    McSame and the rest but two voted to confirm.

  •  Math trivia: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Maudlin, socratic

    A)  current US population:  303,824,640
    B)  2009 budget, FDA:  about $1.9 billion

    B/A= $6.25

    About the cost of this.

    grumble grumble mutter mutter

    by Crashing Vor on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:54:04 PM PST

    •  Your math is spot on, assuming A and B (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor

      are correct. Hilarious.

      A fool and your money are soon partying.

      by Maudlin on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:59:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  FDA budget a bit stretched. (0+ / 0-)

        Only $1.8 bil in discretionary.  700 mil in user fees (paid by companies requesting generic drug approval, animal drug approval, facilities re-testing--presumably after failing initial inspections, etc.)

        grumble grumble mutter mutter

        by Crashing Vor on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:04:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ironic.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor, COkdub

      ...since those cheese crackers have peanut butter in them....

      Comments that say "GM workers should get retraining" without SPECIFIC DETAILS about those "new jobs" that never come are trollworthy

      by LordMike on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:02:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Better way to figure this: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Arabiflora, Crashing Vor
      Assume that 2009 Federal Expenditures are roughly $4 trillion.

      The FDA budget is roughly $1.7 billion.
      The EPA budget is roughly $8 billion.

      The FDA budget represents about 0.043% of Federal spending.
      The EPA budget represents about 0.2% of Federal spending.

      The US Median Wage is about $45,000.
      Federal Income Tax on $45k would be about $5,000 (assuming the worst-case scenario of filing singly and taking only standard deductions).

      0.043% of $5,000 = $2.13
      0.2% of $5,000 = ten bucks.

      Also note that the total of these two ANNUAL budgets is just slightly more than the amount that Halliburton casually "lost track of" during the early days of the Iraq Occupation and, AFAIK, has never been held accountable for.

      Anyway, aren't proportions fun?  Too bad the news media can't do this stuff.  Probably because most of them dropped out of math classes in 7th grade.

      Opposition to an ideology is not inherently another ideology. When you're at the South Pole, there's no other direction to go but north.

      by sxwarren on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 09:21:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  A vasectomy and an emasculation. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    "They pour syrup on shit and tell us it's hotcakes." Meteor Blades

    by JugOPunch on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:56:38 PM PST

  •  $27 is 5 hot-n-ready Little Caesar's pizzas... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sapper, divineorder, COkdub, I mean, tread carefully when you give people choices like that.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 07:58:25 PM PST

    •  Father Juan's (0+ / 0-)

      Long ago we used to order a PapaJohn's combo special thing: Large Works pizza and a large pepperoni, and the total came out to $26.

      I figured it was a waste of money, so if we do pizza, it's either digiorno or made-by-my-own-hands-o.

      "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

      by sapper on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:14:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]


    If they's somethin' wrong with the peanut butter, I don't need no damn big gubmit ivory tower expert tellin' me what to eat or not eat.

    I don't feel so good.

  •  But big government stands in the way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Faeya Wingmother

    of me and those Cocaine Toothache Drops.

  •  But according to the Laffer Curve... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, divineorder

    since tax cuts increase revenues, by forgoing collecting the $27 from me, the government will collect even more from something....

    •  Has any Republican ever (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      pointed to exactly which point on that Laffer curve they think we are when they're crying for all those additional tax cuts?  I doubt even Prof. Laffer knows.

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:14:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's harder if you draw the curve accurately. (0+ / 0-)
      •  No, they just go with "tax cuts raise revenue"... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        which is an established lie.

        Very loosely, the concept of the Laffer Curve is not entirely wrong---there is probably a tax rate beyond which revenues fall such that lowering the rate from that point will result in increased revenues.  But the maximum appears to be very far to the right (e.g., revenues peak at a very high tax rate, much higher than what we have now) and the revenues at a 100% tax rate are far greater than zero.  In the U.S.S.R., for instance, tax rates were effectively 100%, but there was substantial economic activity and the government collected plenty of revenue.  If there is a Laffer Curve in real life, it is quite different from the semi-circle you typically see; it's more likely a long upwardly sloping curve that hooks slightly downward at the upper right.

  •  I don't know (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That bong looked like it costs at least $40.

  •  I want to go back to the 20s (0+ / 0-)

    Before we had socialism. I think the dustbowl woulda been a hoot.

    The GOP is becoming the party of Ideology, Ignorance, Incompetence, and (Increasingly) Irrelevance.

    by MingPicket on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:06:11 PM PST

    •  How About the 1870's? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Just think of the advantages. You could send all your kids out to work at age 10. You yourself could work a 12-hour day 6 days a week, very good for building the character. If you were injured on the job or thrown out of work, you could...not do much, actually. If you were a grocer, you could mix the dried beans 50-50 with gravel, and the flour 50-50 with plaster of Paris, increasing your profit (how do I know this? My 1870's cookbook advises the housewife on how to discern these impurities). There would be no silly old government saying what you could sell under the name of "medicine"---you could boil up any old crap in your basement and sell it as the universal panacea (some did so, with impunity of course). Or, with the same education as Joe the Plumber, you could bill yourself as Joe the Surgeon and operate on people. Thank you, I'll take a smidgeon of Socialism with my government. Big business has never protected me: government has.

  •  Depends on which era of EPA you're refering to. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Faeya Wingmother, COkdub
    If it's Bushco era, I might have done more good for the environment on my own with the $27.
      Now that the grownups are back in charge, I hope they can leverage that $27 better than I would.

    My Karma just ran over your Dogma

    by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:09:37 PM PST

  •  $27 equals (0+ / 0-)

    Two large PapaJohns pizzas with pepperoni.
    I hate Father Juans. I'd rather save the $27, let it go to "taxes," what the hey, and make pizza from home.

    The latter does cost, perhaps $8-10 a pie, but it's so much more nice to make than to let enablers deliver my addictions.

    "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

    by sapper on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:12:04 PM PST

  •  I tried copying some of my $20s ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mollyk that video shows, but the cashier at the grocery put her little light on them and handed them back to me and shook her finger. "Tsk, tsk," she said. See how deeply the propaganda of big government has burrowed into our society? People won't even let you do stuff for yourself.

    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:12:24 PM PST

  •  Economies of scale (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Republicans hard thinking is, not grasping. Thinking hard. E co nuh mee long word.

    I love Muskegon. Each season comes at exactly the right time.

    by Muskegon Critic on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:13:41 PM PST

  •  talking about small govt obscures (3+ / 0-)

    the legitimate discussion about how to make govt work better.  Any organization, especially a large organization (this includes corporations !), can lose focus, wander and not accomplish those things they are supposed to be working towards.

    The republicans have been very good at convincing people that we should just get rid of government, instead of focusing on how to make it work better for the people.

    I'm not interested in having govt work better for Exxon.

    Curiously, republicans always want to start making govt smaller by doing away with programs which protect people from predatory corps.

    •  I have yet to meet any "small government" person (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      who can tell me exactly what "small" would look like when all the cuts are done.

      Just rants, is all I hear.

      The most violent element in society is ignorance.

      by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 09:28:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Can Introduce You to Small Government People (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mr MadAsHell

        ...and you won't even have to leave home. Just go to It's loaded with folks who want no helmet laws, non-smoking laws, gun control laws, food safety laws, prescription or drug control laws, compulsory go-to-school laws, or speed limits. They are very specific: they want to do anything they want, whenever they want to do it, and they don't want no stinkin' commie government telling them they can't. What's more, they are fond of explaining, they have buried a few extra guns and many rounds of ammo in the back yard, so when Obama comes to confiscate their weapons, they will be prepared to defend their freedom. Government? They want it to do nothing but national defense (and plenty of gratuitous aggression). So what would such a small-government-governed United States look like? Baghdad ca 2003; the US frontier ca 1765 on a really bad day; Armageddon.

  •  LOL! Stephen Colbert? Perfect touch! nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dauphin, dotalbon
  •  Big vs Strong (3+ / 0-)

    The Republicans have sucessfully tagged the discussion in terms of Big and Small government. Nobody wants Big government.

    What the Left has to do is redefine the discussion into terms of strong vs weak government. The Democrats want a STRONG government, big or small it doesn't matter. It needs to be STRONG.

    The Repubicans want a weak government and have proven that over the last 8 years that you CAN have a large weak government.

  •  I want big government... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dauphin, dotalbon

    ...300 million big.

    Examples of small government abound -- they're called "banana republics". Folks fond of small government have a passion for malaria and dirt roads.

    "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

    by eyeswideopen on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:45:30 PM PST

  •  The question isn't whether we need (0+ / 0-)

    Big Government.  The Question is whether we can afford Big Business.  

    Electing a Republican is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

    by dotalbon on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 08:57:55 PM PST

  •  We ALL need big government (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Personally I did not like the video - it may/did make me think: how can "they" be so dumb? I fear those who have been brainwashed to think big government is bad could view it and say: yuppers big government is bad. $27 won't even buy a carton of my cigarettes.

    Today I happened to have a conversation with a young adult who is a dishwasher at a regional chain restaurant. She'd seen something on TV about the single woman who just had the 8 babies. She'd heard about the anger toward the doctor, the concerns about the 6 children she already had, observed that the woman was trying to find her happiness in children and thought the woman was not very reality oriented. Her main concern was the 14 young children who, through no fault of their own, were in this situation.

    Our conversation touched on individual rights to choose; legal responsibilities; the role of State Children's services; legal representation for the State, the mother and guardian ad-ligates for each child; foster care; adoption; professionals to assist in making choices in the interest of the children and the apparent reality that our tax dollars will be needed to help the children....and why parts of the Stimulus Bill may apply to this one situation - and a host of other hurting families who are not getting the attention this situation is getting.

    My point is informationals to dispel ignorance would be more effective if more attention was focused on real concerns of  low information people so they can relate to exactly how big government really affects them and their concerns.

    Great topic.

    "He (Obama) is a person ... who sees people as linked rather than ranked ...." ~ Gloria Steinem

    by Anne933 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 09:00:16 PM PST

  •  Let's Fund Airing TV Ads like these.... (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously. A series like this could be highly effective....

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

    by FischFry on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 09:18:14 PM PST

  •  How soon before (0+ / 0-)

    some conservative somewhere tries to link to this as a serious anti-government video?

  •  Too Drunk to remember my login... (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously, it took me six times to get it right! But I can still see that the rePUGlicans have their heads up their collective a**es. How hard is this (for the sober) to figure out?

    Blind followers always end up in a ditch!

    by RenoLMT on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 11:19:58 PM PST

  •  I Love Big Government (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Faeya Wingmother

    I want a federal government big enough, strong enough, and rich enough to 1) Absolutely regulate. I want to not have to worry when I buy food or pharmaceuticals that I am going to get sick or poisoned. I want cars not to roll over or blow up. I want protection from crooks who screw up my investments. I want consumer products to be held to safe standards. 2) Provide universal tuition-free education from preschool through secondary, including day- and after-school care so that parents can work without worry or killing cost. How nice if we could also provide university, graduate, and professional school education as more civilized nations do. 3) Provide universal access to medical care. 4) Assure a retirement of dignity and safety to our elders. 5) Maintain or subsidize decent public transportation, highways, bridges, power grid, dams, and all such public utilities. In the United States, especially for the past 30 years, we have made a fetish of small government, no taxes, free market, and the enhancement of wealth for a few. What we now have to show for all that is a declining middle class, growing unemployment, uneducated children, sick Americans who can't afford to go to the doctor, and terrified elders. This rich country should have done better. The private sector is motivated by greed; it MUST be regulated by government. And I would really like Republicans to stop screeching "Communism! Cooties! Boogey Man!" every time tax or governmental responsibility is mentioned. Taxes and government = civilization.

  •  $54 (0+ / 0-)

    I'd rather the EPA did twice as much, and I was out the extra $54 it would cost.

    Or, they could take the entire EPA budget out of the Pentagon's budget (where they'd never notice the difference) and I could get my $27 back in a "tax cut".

  •  Laura Clawson, I like the Sound of That.... (0+ / 0-)

    And hoping to see you on the tube setting the record straight. You go girl!

    Don't think for a moment that power concedes. Obama

    by weegeeone on Thu Feb 12, 2009 at 06:05:48 AM PST

  •  Depends on how Big Government is structured . . . (0+ / 0-)

    Government isn't always good.  

    Well done video nevertheless.

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