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Once again please excuse the poor writting technique. I write when I feel and it pours. I choose to leave it in its natural state. I will make corrections in the future, but i'd like to think I can come here if no where else and hopfully be judged on content instead of being told why i'll probably never write for the New York Times. I do appreciate the good with the bad however. And I know dispite what I say you'll judge me as you wish. What I am submitting this morning is a response to a video released on http://Wikileaks.org/ which shows a US helicopter attack on a group of men walking and persumed to be starting a attack against American forces. I was horrified at this mismanagement of protocol and the disgregaurd of human life as if they were nothing simple because they're Iraqi. What do you think when you see this video? Or better yet what is this saying about long term America intervention? I believe our long term presance is doing more harm than good, but everyones entitled to their own opinion. This one is mine.

The Link-

http://www.nytimes.com/...

I realize this is probably a poor choice of words but this litterally "blew my mind". The whole time I was watching this I realized that the men or women pulling the trigger clearly did not know what their target would turn out to be. Ive been in the military for several years. This includes one deployment to Iraq. When it coems to engaging "the enemy" you must first be able to clearly observe and identify the target. To me they did the best that they could in this regaurd. However I did notice something that disturbed me many times over. And thats the voice speaking to the trigger man who was almost cheering him on before and after he made the shots, the litteral begging of the trigger man to continue to shoot the so called enemy combatants dispite them being mangled as it was.

The cheering as the bodies are ran over by the Humvee going to investigate after the shooting, and worst of all the statemnt that the children that were shot shouldn't have been brought there by their parents and thus their shooting seemed almost justified. Is this what it's come to? In all the training and all the talk about Rules Of Engagement, there really should be a random question thrown at soldiers and service men to test their minds. That question is " what is the value of a Iraqi civilian?" The viewer of this clip should also ask him or herself this aswell. What is the value a Iraqi life? Once you've determind this. Ask yourself what is your own value, and who has the right to roll over your corpse? This, America, is why they hate us. Its not about our wealth. Our "freedom". Or any of the other BS reasons we justify destroying them because we believe God is on our boys and girls side.

What made rolling over them okay? and Why was there a cheer at blowing them into smaller pieces? This is the hypocracy of our "democracy" and this is what makes us look like freakin Nazi's to the world. Because we roll over bodies and occassionally kill children with a smile. In case no one has said this, they're people. Just like you. Just like me. Dispite what you may or may not have thought of Saddam Hussein. Or what you think, know, or dont know about the Muslim world. They're people. And you just watched why we will never be safe again.

This video is why certain members of Muslim society bomb us and spend their lives trying to touch our safety and rock our sense of "patriotism". Why did the pilots cheer? It made me sick. Litterally. I was ashamed to have served with these men. I was ashamed I watched and could do nothing, and I was ashamed that these characters serve under the same flag that I adore. My heart hurts from this piece, because it would seem that many have lost their way,and went from being the bringers of freedom to a desperate people. To Nazis.

Originally posted to Alexander Of Macedonia on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:05 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Godwin in use of title - FUN!! (5+ / 0-)

    It would have more punch without the "Nazi" reference, which is overused on the Internets and kinda supposed to be banned on this site.

    "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

    by Shane Hensinger on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 10:39:31 PM PDT

  •  U.S. Soldiers being deemed as Nazi's... (5+ / 0-)

    Am I visiting a Tea Bagger blog....your diary disgusts me....

    Our soldiers right or wrong are at war...war isn't pretty, war is pretty fucked up...war is something that in this day and time really shouldn't happen...

    Our Soldiers have been at war for eight years...for some pretty disgusting reasons...which in my mind someone should go to jail for...

    But to compare them to Nazi's....

    I'm fucking disgusted...

    •  Yeah, they weren't Nazis. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101

      Am I visiting a Tea Bagger blog....your diary disgusts me....

      And what those american soldiers did does not disgust you?

      Our soldiers right or wrong are at war...war isn't pretty, war is pretty fucked up...war is something that in this day and time really shouldn't happen...

      It isn't a war.  The war was over long ago and wasn't declared even when started.    Most certainly it qualifies as an occupation.  Different legal responsibilities.

      Our Soldiers have been at war for eight years...for some pretty disgusting reasons...which in my mind someone should go to jail for...

      At war with whom?

      Don't make excuses for them.  Or are you going to point out that after 8 years of this the Iraqis are so traumatised that anything they do to any american is a fair thing?

      No exceptionalism.  For anyone.

      Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

      by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 01:43:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And people like you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miep

      are the reason why this stuff goes on. You keep making exceptions for the "good guys". Wake up. We are the bad guys in town. We are an empire hell bent in subjugating the world. Please remind us, what was the Nazi's goal?

    •  With all due respect we are not at war. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miep

      An illegal invasion and occupation based, as EVERYONE now agrees, on lies,is not war. It is a crime.  Every single rationale for what is now called preemptive war was proved to be FALSE.  When the mission itself is propaganda, and nobody knows who the enemy is, there are bound to be countless murders and assaults of innocents at weddings, at check points, at Abu Graib or at home searches.  There is not a living soul in Iraq who does not have an acquaintance, relative or friend that has not been unjustly killed , maimed for life, injured or impoverished by our unjustified and senseless invasion of Iraq.

      Forgive the diarist's use  of the term nazi and consider what he is pointing at:  RESPONSIBILITY  and ACCOUNTABILITY. Though they suffer grievous psychological damage, it is not our soldiers who bare the blame in all this.   It is first and foremost those who lied us into this unjust war: The Cheneys, Rumfelds, Yoos, Bushes, Wolfowitzs, Addingtons, and their cheerleaders. They are cowards who hide behind the troops.And they will remain in the shadows,  until we have ACCOUNTABILTY through investigations, truth commissions or trials. Until that day we all bare the shame of having turned Iraq into a wasteland for no reason at all.

  •   thank you so much for your diary (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AllisonInSeattle, lyvwyr101, yuriwho, Miep

    you might enjoy reading my diary of the other day.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    I realize that here at Daily Kos you're not supposed to pimp your diary, but I think you'll find that we see eye to eye.

    By the way I'm a regular army veteran, 63 to 66.

    •  Nice Diary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101

      I agree that war is mostly pointless. There are a few cases where aggressors must be stopped but other than that it is a terrible waste of human and material resources for all concerned.

      "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

      by yuriwho on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:46:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •   By the way, it's true (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lyvwyr101, thestructureguy, Miep

    you might rephrase your title to avoid offending certain people. The word "Nazi" is sort of a no-no here.

  •  Little kids playing video games. (0+ / 0-)

    That's what it is. The Nazis, except in the gas chambers, did not find killing so easy, or so much disinfected clean fun. No comparison, I'm sorry. The Nazis were pretty evil without a shadow of a doubt, but the Nazis should not be smeared worse than they deserve to be.

    •  Are you really defending the Nazi's? (3+ / 0-)

      Are are you saying the troops are worse than the Nazi's and by comparing the Nazi's to the troops you're smearing the Nazi's more than they deserve?

      ...but the Nazis should not be smeared worse than they deserve to be.

      They can't be smeared enough.  

      Eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and OK for you.

      by thestructureguy on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:01:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's what he is really saying. Those kids (5+ / 0-)

        and freaking Heinrich Himmler, commander of the SS, are the same.

        Jesus, have we lost all perspective on all things?

        Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

        by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:16:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We were saying Nazis in general... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AllisonInSeattle

          ...not Heinrich Himmler himself, but if you want to imply that I said something that I clearly did not, be my guest. Whatever gets your rocks off, man.

          And you say you wonder why we have lost all perspective on all things.... Really?

          •  We have to go to the source. He was the head of (0+ / 0-)

            the SS--that's Nazi, no?

            Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

            by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:43:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Miep

            is an other ranker had pulled a stunt like this in the german army he would have been immediately shot for lack of discipline.  They were pretty keen on orders being followed.

            Most of the atrocities committed by the german army were organised or performed under orders.  A common soldier taking it upon himself to do this would not have survived his superior's ire at having their authority usurped.

            Every army in WWII performed atrocities. Every single one.  Different numbers and in different places but no army failed to commit atrocities.

            Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

            by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 02:03:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  If you saw a defense... (2+ / 0-)

        ...of the Nazis in there somewhere, I'm sorry I can't help you comprehend English better.

        I'm saying the Nazis were the very worst imaginable...until now. That's how I see it. You, of course, may see it differently. You might see the Nazis as the ultimate evil, that nobody can ever be more evil than the Nazis no matter how hard the try, and fail to see a greater evil even when face to face with it - but I can't help you there either.

        •  "but the Nazis should not be smeared worse than (0+ / 0-)

          they were"

          That's a defense of Nazi and comparing to our soldiers constitutes a defense in itself.

          Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:27:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why do you insist on misquoting me? (0+ / 0-)

            I said... "worse than they deserve to be" and you quote me as saying "worse than they were". That's the second time you have twisted my words. What does that Fox News tactic help you achieve... some kind of "win" in the "debate"?

            If you're going to keep doing that, let me concede defeat here right now. Happy?

      •  Wow. Then how do you feel about the japanese? (0+ / 0-)

        By the year 2002, Germany had paid out 102 billion Deutschmarks in restitution and compensation to the victims of the Nazi regime. Germany has largely faced up to its legal and moral obligations and admitted its guilt. Not so Japan. Denying its wholesale massacres and thieving by its moronic hordes, the Japanese Government officials hide behind their bland smiles and polite bows and think 'Japan Number One, other countries Number Ten'. No other nation in the world imposes such a distorted view of history on its schoolchildren. For over fifty years, Japan has denied its abuses of Human Rights and refuses to pay any compensation to its victims, especially the survivors of its 250,000 sex slave program. (At this moment a few survivors are fighting for compensation in the Japanese courts) Until Japan faces up to its responsibilities, civilized nations everywhere must regard it with suspicion at best and contempt at worst. At the Nuremberg War Crimes trial, Hans Frank said "A thousand years will pass and still this guilt of Germany will not have been erased". In Japan's case however, it may take a little longer.

        I guess there were worse.

        Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

        by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 02:35:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Stop using this Nazi shit. I am going to defend (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burrow owl, bruddaone

      those kids. You don't know the circumstances under which they were operating or maybe you know them (since you describe the video) and you just to conveniently choose to ignore them.

      They were operating from at least 800 yards away in the freaking ski and they got the order to shoot. They were following orders because the people on the ground told them that those were armed enemies and gave them the clearance to shoot.

      For them, if you don't take those elements out, they would kill your brothers in arms. So, you kill first.

      And don't speculate that it was a video game for them. You don't know how they felt afterward when they told them they killed innocent people. Those kids are not monsters to compare them to Nazis who systematically eliminated people because they did not belong to the same ethnic group they were.

      Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

      by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:13:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No, no, no, they are not Nazis and we don't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike S, the fan man, thestructureguy

    look like Nazi and you should not EVEN use any analogy to Nazis or Nazism.

    Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

    by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:01:30 PM PDT

  •  Delete or edit this diary because you are way out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    burrow owl, bruddaone

    of line here my friend.

    Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

    by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:17:00 PM PDT

  •  I really like what you've written here (4+ / 0-)

    I really hear your pain at having served, apparently with different moral compass than was being used by these men, and then seeing this.

    I know this is far more 3D for you than for me. I have a friend who was in Iraq. I know it's all far far more 3D for him than for me. Every once in a while he makes comments, but mostly he says we don't want to know about what happened there. I tell him try me, but he won't.

    I think there's a huge problem with sending the very young to war. That, and a huge problem with how easy it is to objectify a whole populace. I think you make very good points about how training should make very strong points against this type of irrational hatred of an entire population. To where one can gloat about the killing.

    This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

    by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:18:43 PM PDT

    •  Stongly disagree with your sentiment...n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mutual Assured Destruction
      •  You show no respect for this veteran. All you (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lysias, lyvwyr101, duufus, Miep

        can do is split hairs over one word.

        Be reasonable, be more objective, stand back and look at the broader message here. Don't nit-pick, this person, this author who got sent into this god-forsaken war doesn't deserve that from this community.

        Not even from you.

        This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

        by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:24:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Remove the comparaison to the Nazis. That's not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shane Hensinger

          nit-picking stuff. That's serious stuff.

          Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:28:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Lord Voldemort!" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lyvwyr101

            Look, there's the Khmer Rouge, the Tutsis and Hutus, the massacres in Darfur today, on and on.

            The freaking Soviets killed 20,000 Polish prisoners of war in the 1940s.

            The Nazis don't stand alone, they're one of many groups of people that have committed massacres or genocide. Your country, this country did the same to the Native Americans when we arrived here.

            Once again, when you freak out over one word, you prevent yourself from responding to any worthwhile message from this veteran. And they deserve more respect than that.

            This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

            by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:37:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Carefully planned operation with the sole (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Shane Hensinger

              objective to eliminate an entire population and you tell me that they were not alone.  Rounding out kids from France, Italy and sending them to be killed the camps and you tell me they are not alone.

              Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

              by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:40:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It was the Shutzstaffel who did this, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lyvwyr101, Miep

                Not the Wehrmacht.  It was the secret police not the army.

                And it was not an entire population.  It was several entire populations.  It was also certain political groups and certain sexual persuasions.

                Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 02:55:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  We are talking about the Nazi. We are not talking (0+ / 0-)

                  about the different structure of command and control of the Nazi regime.

                  I don't care if it were the Nazi boys scout

                  Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

                  by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 07:21:53 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Ah! Wilful ignorance. No worries. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Miep

                    Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                    by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 07:36:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And if you want to be exactly accurate, without (0+ / 0-)

                      the Wehrmacht the policies and the plans of the Schutzstaffel or SS would not have been able be implemented because they weren't that many of them. For pure logistic reasons, the Wehrmacht lifted most of the load.

                      Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

                      by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 08:32:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

                        This is normally the case in places with secret police.  What are you implying?

                        Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                        by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 03:56:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Just making clear some of the things you said. (0+ / 0-)

                          No need for cocking the gun.

                          Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

                          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 06:25:17 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Cocking the gun? (0+ / 0-)

                            Wasn't it you who said the nazis were the worst of the worst?  When in actuality that is far, far from the truth?

                            I'm not cocking the gun, that was what you did.  You made unsupportable statements that were factually incorrect, and you chose wilful ignorance.  That is damn dangerous.

                            I just chucked in a few seeds of doubt because you clearly couldn't 'handle the truth' even if you were willing to listen to it.

                            Best Wishes, Demena Left/Right: -8.38; Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

                            by Demena on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 06:39:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Be my guest, know yourself out n/t (0+ / 0-)

                            Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

                            by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 08:39:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  Keep with that Harry Potter stuff. You probably (0+ / 0-)

              live in a fantasy world too.

              Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

              by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 07:31:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  To compare his brothers in arms to Nazi's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mutual Assured Destruction

          He shows disrespect to those still over there putting their life on the line under the misguided belief they are suffering through it for the betterment of country and world...

          Lash out at the creators of this debacle...they are the real villains...

          •  I don't have any problem with insulting the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Shane Hensinger, bruddaone

            leadership of the military and/or the civilian one.

            But leave the kids alone.

            Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

            by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:49:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Exactly... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mutual Assured Destruction

              I've seen guys lose their humanity and senses on 30 day exercises using blanks and a phantom enemy...

              1 year of the real deal...I could only imagine the mental calisthenics they have to perform to get through an hour of that crud never mind a year...

              And for some rear support guy or someone who has never served to compare them to Nazi's is just too much to take...it's wrong and it's disgusting...

    •  I send you to the front with all the training you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bruddaone

      can get and after 12 months of constant stress, 24/7, 365/365 days, you will be just like those kids. It is pure survival. Moreover, they were objectifying an entire population, they were killing what they thought were enemies--enemies that if they did not kill them, they would kill their brothers in arms. That's what they were thinking.

      Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

      by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:25:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's amazing how many seem to forget this... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mutual Assured Destruction

        They act as if these kids are waltzing through the alley, having a fist fight over corner turf...

        I especially question guys who say they have served and seem to miss this aspect...

        I always want to ask...were you protecting the water buffalo, shuffling paper or changing transmissions...just how far away from the front lines were you...

        Because I can't see a guy in urban combat fighting door to door coming to these conclusions...

      •  Then stop attacking people who want to end this (0+ / 0-)

        war, and do something to end it. You start sounding like you enjoy what these cold blooded murderers did.

        •  Here we go. Here we go. I support this war? How (0+ / 0-)

          the fuck do you know that? And enjoying this, what am i fucking enjoying? Do you have some gene of cretinism that spouts total crap when you run out of things to say?

          Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 07:25:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Which is just what Germans said to justify the (0+ / 0-)

        behavior of soldiers of the Wehrmacht.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 09:00:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You forgot one big point: there was a policy, (0+ / 0-)

          rationally thought, crafted, and implemented to eliminate an entire section of the population, whether Jews or homosexuals or Gypsies (Roma people) and what have you, just because they did not fit their perspective of what makes a human being or what does not.

          Do you see a policy here that has been thought, crafted and implemented?

          So you are wrong. Period.

          Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 11:29:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Tipped and recc'd (5+ / 0-)

    However...people here have issues about Nazi references, and your essay will be just as good if you edit out the last two words.

    I know it seems like censorship (in fact, it is censorship). But if you do so, you'll get a better response here.

    However, if you don't, I'll still leave your essay tipped and recc'd.

    "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

    by Miep on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:22:57 PM PDT

    •  can't help you on the title, though (0+ / 0-)

      because I think that there really ARE things that hopefully some few helicopter pilots, and Nazis, have in common.

      "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

      by Miep on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:26:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Commentary on another war (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lyvwyr101, Miep

    Here:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    On WWI, which most people forget ever happened.

    This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

    by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:29:17 PM PDT

    •  I've posted a copy of this essay (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AllisonInSeattle, politicjock

      as it stands, with links to the author and to this page, to Right of Assembly, in case the hostility this essay is receiving drives the author to remove it from the site.

      Link here.

      "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

      by Miep on Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 11:36:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  regarding hate speech (3+ / 0-)

    From a correspondent:

    I understand why we forbid the use of "nigger," but forbidding the use of "Nazi" is in no way analogous.  It is a historically accurate descriptive reference.  Nazis named themselves Nazis, and either one's behavior or ideology is similar in detail or motivation, or it's not.  This is exactly the kind of comparison we should be debating.  To paraphrase Voltaire(?), I may not agree that the helicopter pilots were behaving like Nazi's but I would defend to the death his right to ask the question.  

    "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

    by Miep on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 12:19:29 AM PDT

  •  We are not Nazis. It is ignorant to make (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mutual Assured Destruction

    the comparison and serving does not exempt you from reality.

    Why do humans cheer at the death of the enemy? Why do soldiers laugh at death and desecration of the dead? Is it because we are Nazis or is it something deeper and universal? When Somalis dragged dead Americans through the street jumping up and down laughing, were they Nazis?  When the bodies of Blackwater mercenaries were hung in public for display, were the Iraqis who did it Nazis?

    God may lament the death of every person, denying a unique perspective on the creation, but humans don't share that sentiment too often, especially not in war.

    "Ignorance breeds monsters to fill up the vacancies of the soul that are unoccupied by the verities of knowledge." H Mann

    by the fan man on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 06:44:00 AM PDT

    •  The Nazis insisted they were not Bolsheviks. nt (0+ / 0-)

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 08:58:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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