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I've been lurking lately since the endless BP Oil spill continues to perpetuate ecological and financial terrorism at the rate of 2.5 million gallons of oil a day, ruining lives, an entire ecological system that may never survive, and sending Americans into such despair that there are growing numbers of people on the Gulf committing suicide, having lost everything; their way of life, the land and sea they loved, a way to make a living as fishermen/women on seas they revered, with no hope in sight for a future that no longer exists for themselves or their families.  

I thought, that after the Great Heist of 2008, by Wall Street and the Banks, that perhaps that would be our nation's 'tipping point' as many call it here on DailyKos.  But it was not.  

I'm now believing at this point in time, there is no such thing as a 'Tipping Point' in our nation, because regardless of how monumental the event or catastrophe, Americans (unlike our own ancestors) are not willing to March by the Millions into Washington DC, and make that 'Tipping Point' happen, by suiting up, and showing up.

Consider this simple fact about the Great Heist of 2008 by Wall Street and the Banks:

   

Casey Research, of Vermont, has analyzed the costs of the government bailouts of the housing crisis, the credit crisis and others and has concluded that the total is $8.5 trillion, which is more than the cost of all US wars, the Louisiana Purchase, the New Deal, the Marshall Plan and the NASA Space Program combined. According to CRS, the Congressional Research Service, all major US wars (including such events as the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, the invasion of Panama, the Kosovo War and numerous other small conflicts), cost a total of $7.5 trillion in inflation-adjusted 2008 dollars.

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.co...

That is $ 8.5 trillion dollars of our hard earned tax dollars, paid off to a bunch of crooks, liars and thieves, who knowingly were 'cooking the books' with risky untried and unproven 'market theories.'  And when it all came crashing down around our necks, these were the same crooks, liars and thieves that got paid off, for destroying our economy and our nation.

Yet, at least we still have a few great American truth tellers and hero's that have the guts to tell the entire world what really happened to our nation, which of course, should have been 'a Tipping Point.'

And as Jim Jubak, (a very conservative Stock Broker) pointed out to anyone with half a brain:

Fluke? Credit crisis was a heist

Thanks to a complicit Congress, the reins were systematically loosened on the looters of the financial industry. And they're still at it, looking for new plunder.

It was no accident.

The folks in power in Washington and on Wall Street want to pretend that the current global financial crisis -- you know, the one that reduced household net worth in the United States by $11.2 trillion in 2008, according to the Federal Reserve -- was an accident caused by some unfortunate confluence of greed and asleep-at-the-switch regulators.

What we're now living through, though, is the result of a conscious, planned looting of the world economy. Its roots stretch back decades. And it wouldn't have been possible without the contrivances of the bought-and-paid-for folks who sit in Congress.

Of course, just because the plan blew up on the looters, taking off a financial finger here and a portfolio hand there, you shouldn't have any illusion that they've retired. In fact, in the "solutions" now being proposed -- by Congress -- to fix the global and U.S. financial systems, you can see the looters at work as hard as ever.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...

$ 8.5 trillion dollars right into the pockets of Wall Street/The Banks while the household net worth in the United States was reduced by $ 11.2 trillion in 2008.

Please, spare me the 'But Bernanke and Geithner Saved the Country' bullshit...I know better.  I've done my own research thank you very much.

But you see, it is never enough with these same crooks, liars and thieves, and it will never be enough.  

Now that Wall Street/The Banks have picked our pockets down to the 'lint' it is all of a sudden time to become 'fiscally responsible' and the 'Cat Food Commission' is coming after our Social Security and Medicare to - I dare say - keep funding the 'endless Military Industrial Complex' for our endless wars.

Cut Social Security to Fund the War?

By DEAN BAKER

In a remarkable interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, House Republican Leader John Boehner explicitly called for cutting Social Security in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan. The article reports:

   "Ensuring there's enough money to pay for the war will require reforming the country's entitlement system, Boehner said. He said he'd favor increasing the Social Security retirement age to 70 for people who have at least 20 years until retirement, tying cost-of-living increases to the consumer price index rather than wage inflation and limiting payments to those who need them."

In principle Boehner gave the Democrats as much ammunition as a serious political party could want. After all raising the retirement age and cutting Social Security benefits to pay for the war in Afghanistan is an idea that consistently polls in the high single decimals. We should expect every Democratic politician in the country to be jumping up and down demanding to know whether the Republican leader speaks for all Republicans. That would be the case, unless of course the Democrats actually hold similar views. After all, several prominent Democrats have been saying in public recently that we will have to cut Social Security benefits (benefits workers have already paid for). These prominent Democrats also support the war in Afghanistan.  So, they may not use the same words as Mr. Boehner, but it seems that many Democrats may effectively agree that we have to cut Social Security to pay for the war in Afghanistan. It would be nice if they would insist that this is not true.

http://www.counterpunch.org/...

Gee, has anyone heard of any Democrats 'jumping up and down' demanding that 'Orange Tan Man with the Cry Baby Drinking Problem' John Boehner 'take back those words: to reform 'entitlements' such as Social Security?'

I mean now that Wall Street/the Banks have illegally run off laughing their asses off with their trillions of tax payer dollars, and the economy has been crashed, with absolutely no jobs on the horizon (since we no longer have a decent manufacturing base and most of our jobs have been sold overseas and outsourced) then I guess, our 'Government' is going to have to figure out some ways to keep 'propping' up the most extensive and wasteful and useless Military Industrial War Machine, and it would appear that the final safety net (which we as Americans all paid into, which is why it should NEVER BE CALLED ENTITLEMENTS,) is the 'final frontier' to completely dismantle what is left of the so called 'working class.'

No folks, 'it is never enough,' until 'we have had enough,' and apparently we have 'not had enough,' because we as a society have indeed morally failed ourselves. Stop blaming it on the politicians.  For gosh sakes, their are a bunch of Corporate Whores on all sides of the isles...Yes, the ideology may be different, and boy, don't the two party systems know how to 'keep the class wars right on the front burner' to divide us, and to use as their little 'decoys' as they 'throw us a bone' without any meat on it to fight over every few months.

This is what they are doing in France to protest the retirement age from 60 years of age to 62 (while the Cat Food Commission wants to raise the American retirement age to 70).

PARIS — Trains stood still and children played instead of studied as workers around France went on strike Thursday to protest President Nicolas Sarkozy's plans to raise the retirement age by two years to 62. Neighboring countries suffered along with Paris commuters, as walkouts by drivers delayed or canceled trains from Italy and Switzerland. Some flights were dropped or delayed.

Boisterous crowds of protesters filled Marseille's port and wide Paris avenues, as unions staged nearly 200 marches in several cities over a broad reform to the money-losing pension system, part of efforts around Europe to cut back on growing public debts.

The ranks of demonstrators swelled in comparison to a similar protest May 27. The Interior Ministry put the number of protesters around France at 797,000 – double the number of people in the streets in May.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Approximately 65,447,374 people live in France, and I find it rather impressive that 797,000 of these people suited up and showed up to actively protest in their own nation concerning their own pension/and or social security retirement funds being 'gutted' by their own country, because the truth is, all of the nations throughout Europe were indulging in the same Banking and Wall street sub-prime liar loans, and other sleazy cooking of the books, and now these same governments, just like ours are going after the 'middle and lowers classes' to pay Peter who robbed Paul.  

The population of the United States of America is approximately 309,643,000, yet I find it rather shameful, that we can't even muster the moral courage to find the 797,000 people in our own nation (like France did) to March on Washington DC and demand change.  

Stop the endless wars, stop the Wall Street/Banking looting, stop the Oil Companies from being subsidized with our tax dollars:

When the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform set off the worst oil spill at sea in American history, it was flying the flag of the Marshall Islands. Registering there allowed the rig’s owner to significantly reduce its American taxes.
   
The owner, Transocean, moved its corporate headquarters from Houston to the Cayman Islands in 1999 and then to Switzerland in 2008, maneuvers that also helped it avoid taxes.

At the same time, BP was reaping sizable tax benefits from leasing the rig. According to a letter sent in June to the Senate Finance Committee, the company used a tax break for the oil industry to write off 70 percent of the rent for Deepwater Horizon — a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began.

http://www.nytimes.com/...

Why are these criminally incompetent Robber Barons from BP being let off the hook?  Hasn't anyone in our government read what has happened in the past to clean up workers on an oil spill that was much less significant than the one in the Gulf?

Majority of Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Cleanup Workers now Dead

BP said that Methane makes up about 40 percent of the leaking crude by mass in late May. Large amounts of toxic hydrogen sulfide, benzene and methylene chloride -- in addition to the Methane -- are also leaking into the Gulf. Throw in the toxic dispersant being used by BP and you've got a deadly chemical cocktail that could easily be absorbed and spread by hurricanes, killing virtually everything it comes into contact with, including humans. Plans are reportedly being put in place for the mandatory evacuation of cities and towns within a 200-mile radius of the gusher.

Rachel Maddow recently pointed out that BP netted $58.5 billion over the past three years. They reportedly spent $29 million researching safer ways to drill over those same three years and spent nothing -- zero dollars -- researching how to respond to an oil spill. BP falsified their clean up response plan, which the U.S. government quickly approved, using dead experts. A recently uncovered BP document bragged of Gulf of Mexico growth and cheap production costs.

A recent CNN report claims that the vast majority of those who worked on the clean up of the Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989 are now dead, and one expert told CNN that the life expectancy for those who worked on it is about 51 years. The Gulf of Mexico spill has surpassed the Exxon Valdez many times over and will continue doing so. A video released by John L. Wathen reveals some of the damage done by the oil spill that paints a damning picture of oil saturated water that is killing schools of dolphins and more.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/...

Of course our government knows exactly what is going on, just like they knew exactly what was going on during the Great Heist of 2008 by Wall Street and the Banks.

None of these 'Oligarchs' are ever going to be held accountable, because we as a people, keep 'waiting for the Tipping Point'...what a load of crap.

How many 'Tipping Points' do we need folks?  Wall Street/The Banks ruin our entire national economy, and then 'get paid off' for doing so, while millions and millions of jobs and homes are lost, now BP, is getting away with murder and ecological terrorism, while the company used a tax break for the oil industry to write off 70 percent of the rent for Deepwater Horizon — a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began, even now, this very day, $225,000 a day for gawdsake....and still what?

We're waiting for the Tipping Point?  

Will the 'Tipping Point' come when your sons and daughters are being drafted into the new endless wars, that our Social Security will be cut and funding?

Will that be the final straw for you?  Will we then finally do what our ancestors did, and March by the Millions on Washington DC, and scream as loud as we can until every single window in the Capital Building shakes and cracks until they hear us?

When is the 'Tipping Point' folks?  Will someone tell me?  Or are we just a bunch of lazy blogging ranters, who care more about our 'gadgets' than what our own grandfather, grandmothers and families cared about?

At least they showed up, in the streets, when they had finally had enough.  

I guess we just haven't had enough, have we?  There's no such thing as a 'tipping point' people.  The tipping point happened a long time ago, and now we have only ourselves to blame.  It is a moral failure of our own citizens, of our own nation, of our own cowardice not to take direct physical action by actively forming Million People Marches on Washington DC or National Strikes.

We just don't have the guts to do it, and you can blame the media all your want to, but I know exactly how the War in Vietnam ended.  I know exactly how Civil Rights were finally enacted.  I know what it means to organize and to stop blaming everyone else but ourselves.

If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

Thanks as always.

Originally posted to Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:05 PM PDT.

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    by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:05:55 PM PDT

    •  Perhaps our salvation will come from outside (59+ / 0-)

      the country.  America is too caught up in its individualistic, capitalist political ideologies, its obsession with victory culture, its idea of utopia as winning the championship and going to Disneyland.  Outside of a few havens of sanity here and there, America is the belly of the beast, the nation of Wall Street, K Street, and the Pentagon.

      "Any sensible person right now would join an anticapitalist organization." -- David Harvey

      by Cassiodorus on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:30:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hm. (27+ / 0-)

        I'm inclined to agree. But there isdiscontent among the masses. Discontent of all sorts.

        Salvation, if it comes at all, comes from within. But who would be willing to turn the other cheek? Who would be willing to set aside their judgments in order to cultivate the grounds for alliance that are necessary for this collective "salvation"?

        Who is willing to sacrifice their presumptions?

        When all is division, arrogance, and cowardice, who will use empathy, humility, and courage to find the right arguments that will unite us in a war against the right enemy?

        •  I'd be careful in characterizing the Tea Party as (34+ / 0-)

          the "masses."  They are hardly a majority, but your point is well taken.  This quote is particularly spot on, imo:

          Who is willing to sacrifice their presumptions?

          When all is division, arrogance, and cowardice, who will use empathy, humility, and courage to find the right arguments that will unite us in a war against the right enemy?

          The "right enemy," indeed.  No pun intended.

          Sarah Palin: All pistol and no squint.

          by CanyonWren on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:10:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Or is the enemy (8+ / 0-)

            in a fight against the inevitable - that's another way to look at it.  A bunch of dinosaurs trying to pretend there's no comet coming.

            Die energie der Welt ist constant; die Entropie der welt strebt einem Maximum zu. - Rudolf Clausius, 1865

            by xgy2 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:16:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  ya they are. (10+ / 0-)

              and they are already fighting it. we aren't. they kill us by the millions, slowly, all the time telling us it's our own fault for not having the money to live. worse yet, most still believe it.

              "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

              by zedaker on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:23:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  this is not what America means.; (5+ / 0-)

                we need to help each other.  STAND!  that was a fire cracker means.  we really are better than this.
                STAND!

                •  "Help each other" must be the focus. (37+ / 0-)

                  I agree with Bada that it's increasingly unlikely that any sort of mass protest movement is going to arise in the United States.  While there are a lot of factors, the primary one is that people don't see alternatives to the present system.  In the 30s, we had mass direct action against the economic elite, but it was largely led by dedicated Communists and Socialists who had an alternative vision of the world.  Take the Reuthers, for example, who helped start the United Auto Workers.  They had been raised as Socialists by their German-born father.  When they were young adults, theyy traveled to the Soviet Union and worked in an auto factory.  They believed that there were ways to run factories other than the way Henry Ford ran his.  They saw it in Gorky and returned home to tell others about it.  In the back of their minds, it served as a model toward which they were striving as they organized the union and later negotiated contracts.  For a while, that vision transformed the way American factory floors were run and employees compensated.  That vision helped create the American middle class.

                  Americans need to know that there is a way of doing things other than dog-eat-dog.  Such places do still exist--Cuba, Venezuela--but they are demonized (watch the attacks on Castro and Chavez come at this "progressive" site).  Cassiodorus suggests above that salvation might come from outside, and the ideas might, but Americans will need internal examples.  That's where we should be directing our energies.

                  I believe we are looking at one of two possibilities in the future.

                  1. Capitalism will undergo a further, dramatic collapse.  It is currently held together by the chewing gum and baling wire of state support.  Look at this Naked Capitalism post from today.  It discusses the debt buildup of the 90s and 00s that was necessary to sustain profit margins through that period and compares it to the similar debt buildup in the 20s.  It was more than twice as severe.  Then it looks at the inevitable collapse and deleveraging.  Ours has not yet even begun because of government bank bailouts and some Keynesian fiscal stimulus to prop up demand.  It is unlikely that this level of government support can be maintained politically.  It is questionable whether it can work indefinitely from an economic standpoint.

                  If it does fail, we are looking at a fall in GDP of 40% +.  That's collapse.  If not, we're looking at alternative 2).

                  1. Capitalism may succeed in partnership with governments in preventing another collapse in the short term, but there is no prospect for growth.  Those who are unemployed will stay unemployed.  Young people will not be able to find jobs.  This will be the New Normal.

                  These horrible alternatives will undermine any remaining confidence in our economic and political systems, but what could possibly replace them?  Fascists will be there to offer an alternative, perhaps one tinged with theocracy.  What about us on the Left?  What can we show people that would convince them that a new and different world is a realistic possibility?

                  We have pockets in this country that are already outside of the system.  Large sections of our Great Lakes cities have been abandoned by the Capitalists.  No one really owns the property.  No one is paying taxes.  There is no commerce.  In the rural parts of our country, there are whole towns in similar straits.

                  Yet there are people still living in these places.  They're open to try something new, anything.  Such places can be the laboratories and proving grounds for Leftist alternatives to our present system.  Worker coops, housing coops, green energy projects, alternative or supplemental schools.  The government isn't going to do it.  FDR, with his "try anything" approach, is not in the White House.  Instead, it will take people and a very, very little seed money to get started.  Worst case scenario: the lives of some desperate people are made better.  Best case scenario: ideas proven in such places catch on and become the vision--like the Reuthers gained from Gorky--of a new world, a place that people ARE willing to fight for because tipping points are not just reached because things are bad.  There must be hope for something better.

                  The Capitalists are largely abandoning America now that they have extracted just about all the wealth they can.  They are moving on to greener pastures.  What we see in Detroit and the farm towns in the Plains states are the first steps of their withdrawal.

                  We must step into that vacuum: first, just to help those in need; second, to demonstrate that there can be a world not based on profit and exploitation.

                  Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all. - JM Keynes

                  by goinsouth on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:34:38 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Roused to inaction (27+ / 0-)

                    The tipping point has already been reached, but goinsouth is right, I think, that Americans aren't capable of responding through direct mass action; they're too atomized, too risk-averse.

                    Rather, the response we'll be seeing is mass disillusionment and mass withdrawal from the public sphere. This could prove to be just as fatal to our political system as overt revolt: it means no one can be brought to believe anymore, no one will be willing to make sacrifices to come to the aid of the established order.

                    I lived in the USSR for a while and witnessed the collapse of the Soviet system through mass disillusionment. The Soviet system wasn't overthrown by protests in the streets; it was undermined over the course of several years as people stopped believing in it. "They pretend to pay us, so we pretend to work." Socialism and the Party leadership weren't publicly assailed, but privately they were the subjects of jokes. Politics itself was considered a joke, a hoax. People instead invested their hopes entirely in private mutual aid. In order to survive people turned to the gray market, to undocumented work on the side, to barter, to cultivating their dacha gardens, to trading favors with friends. They didn't pay their taxes and they went to great lengths to keep their sons exempt from conscription.They cultivated contacts abroad that might be turned into opportunities for emigration.

                    When the Party conservatives launched their August coup against Gorbachev they expected some outpouring of public approval. To their surprise there was none whatsoever. By the end of that year the USSR had collapsed, and in a few months after that the Party was banned.

                    I think we're coming close to the day we recognize no one really believes anymore in US capitalism and US "managed democracy." Even Teabaggers clinging to the old fantasies (the infallibility of the market and its Invisible Hand; the affordable American Dream {tho for white folks only]; God's special compact with America) sense they've been hoodwinked, although they're unable to articulate why.

                    •  The Soviet experience. (23+ / 0-)

                      This kind of thing is already much-discussed in the U. S. and is actually practiced in a growing number of areas:

                      People instead invested their hopes entirely in private mutual aid. In order to survive people turned to the gray market, to undocumented work on the side, to barter, to cultivating their dacha gardens, to trading favors with friends. They didn't pay their taxes and they went to great lengths to keep their sons exempt from conscription.They cultivated contacts abroad that might be turned into opportunities for emigration.

                      That's the "vacuum" I'm talking about.  That inclination to hunker down, look out for yourself but still work with neighbors is an environment in which communities can try some new ways of doing things.

                      Let me present an example.  I saw something yesterday about Habitat for Humanity becoming one of the biggest "homebuilders" in the U. S.  That says a lot about the success of Capitalism, but the irony is that HfH, despite being a laudable program, has been hard-hit by this crisis as well.  Their model has not worked well.  First of all, HfH "buyers" have a mortgage when they take possession.  I didn't realize this.  I thought the houses were free and clear.  Second, since they are the private property of the owners, many have been lost because of second mortgages and HELOCs.

                      People need to have a secure place to live.  They need to have a say about how the place is maintained and improved.  But they need to be free of debt.  A housing coop would provide those things.  In our urban neighborhoods, especially in the Great Lakes cities, there are lots of vacant houses and apartment buildings.  With organization, training and materials, these buildings could be made habitable again by people needing housing and run as coops.

                      There are a host of services and needs that could be provided in our neediest communities in new ways: food through community gardens, chicken coops, etc; Internet through community wireless; utilities through bulk purchases of electricity and gas distributed to the community through a coop (been done since FDR in rural communities); banking through the already established institution of the credit union.

                      Finally, the possibility exists to create worker coops to fill local needs.  The Cleveland model is an example.  Foundation funding has started a worker coop in one of Cleveland's poorest neighborhoods to provide linen services for Cleveland Clinic.  Other workers have taken over plants that were being moved overseas with union funding and assistance.

                      That's where the Left should be putting a lot of its energy and resources rather than in focusing all hope on Washington.

                      Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all. - JM Keynes

                      by goinsouth on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:30:17 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Will you do it? (6+ / 0-)

                        A housing coop would provide those things.  In our urban neighborhoods, especially in the Great Lakes cities, there are lots of vacant houses and apartment buildings.  With organization, training and materials, these buildings could be made habitable again by people needing housing and run as coops.

                        There are a host of services and needs that could be provided in our neediest communities in new ways: food through community gardens, chicken coops, etc; Internet through community wireless; utilities through bulk purchases of electricity and gas distributed to the community through a coop (been done since FDR in rural communities); banking through the already established institution of the credit union.

                        If you won't, who will?  My email is in my profile.

                        -7.75 -4.67

                        "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

                        There are no Christians in foxholes.

                        by Odysseus on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:22:17 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Slowly but surely, I hope. (12+ / 0-)

                          When this crisis hit, I was living on another continent.  Since then, I've come back to the States and finally reached a place where I believe this kind of thing can work.  I won't be more specific than that.

                          At this point, I'm accumulating enough money to purchase the first building.  It doesn't take much--a few thousand--and living cheaply and making money through online work, I should be there in another couple of months.  It will then be pay-as-you-go to make it habitable.  I'm focused on something multi-family.

                          At the same time, I'm trying to meet people in my new home who are already involved in these kinds of activities.  There are many.  That's one of the reasons I chose this place.  

                          I'm also about to set up a coop for the online work so that it can be expanded--it's surprising how much business there is--and others can make some income from it too.  Because the coop is an entity established under state law, I had to wait until I arrived to actually establish it.  Again, the law where I'm at is favorable.  That's another reason I chose this locale.  The idea is not to "hire" people and make them employees.  I don't have the capital to do that responsibly anyway.  Instead, it's to share work without any commission going to me.  A true worker coop.  From each according to ability, to each according to contribution.  Not Marxist.  More anarcho-syndicalist.

                          I'm also trying to do some reading and thinking about all this to further develop this vision.

                          Finally, I'm beginning to write publicly about these ideas to see if others are interested.  It would be great to have others with a vision for what might be done who would like to join us.  I read people's stories on this site and elsewhere.  These are people with talents, experience and loving hearts, but they're treated as castoffs and outcasts by our society.  How great it would be to be able to tell them, "If you have a car or can get bus fare together, we have a place for you.  It's not luxurious, but it's safe and clean and warm in the winter.  You'll have some ready-made friends from the start.  AND WE NEED YOU."  Then to have those people arrive and begin to do things to help those already here, and vice versa.  Absurdly optimistic, I know.  Utopian, you bet.  But it's worth a try as far as I'm concerned.

                          Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all. - JM Keynes

                          by goinsouth on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:00:28 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  Must agree again with goinsouth: (5+ / 0-)

                        I no longer have faith in electoral politics, especially at the national level-- although I will of course continue to donate, canvas , and vote because leaving the field entirely to the Republicans would obviously make our plight even more desperate.

                        In terms of electoral politics, our choice is between the Timid Incompetent Party and the Relentlessly Malevolent Party. Better to continue voting for the Timid Incompetents to avoid an even worse fate.

                        But meaningful change can't come from electoral politics anymore. Its going to have to come about from below, through community action, as people experiment building alternative structures for mutual aid.

                      •  Excellant, goinsouth!! (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        goinsouth, Badabing, cameoanne, ohmyheck

                        Odd that about Habitat..I have not been active for the past 13 years but was very active on many levels in the past.

                        During those years, "sweat equity" was involved (a specific number of hours)by the recipients and ALL the supplies & appliances were donated for each home.

                        No one could sell or put a second mortgage on the home without going through Habitat for X number of years AND the no interest monthly payment was not for the mortgage but rather for a)repair funds & b)used towards the purchase of the next house.

                        In effect, the land & house were "mortgage" free at completion.

                        I know in my area, Home Depot is a major donor as well as many other companies for both supplies & volunteer labor.

                        At the time of my involvement, families were followed closely for at least one year & everything from homeownership to finances was taught to each family.

                        During those times, individuals would come from around the world on their own dime & time to help build homes both here in US & elsewhere. As volunteers, we built, provided food/lodging for other volunteers, served on commitees, begged for donation of goods, etc.

                        It worked for many many years. And it grew. And it became sponsered by larger businesses. Hmm.

                        On another note, for some strange reason your ideas remind me of a commune in Tenn called the Farm that I heard about in college but did not get to "visit" until about a decade later in the late seventies.

                        Amazing what they accomplished. Started a free ambulance service in the Bronx, water irrigation in 3rd world countries, solar energy, had their own school/radio, etc... Took pregnant women in & cared for the baby if Mom needed to get on her feet & returned baby no matter how long that took.  ALOT of very very hard work involved.  With no outside money/funding.  Heh, and alot of grief initially from locals-especially when they refused to pay certain local taxes-based on the fact that they generated & produced everything needed on their own land.

                        All started by hippie doctors and lawyers and ordinary beings...

                        Last I heard (sometime in the 90's)it morphed into cooperatives...

                    •  Difference between then and now is misinformation (8+ / 0-)

                      MSM is monopolized by a small consortium of special interests now, so not enough people are aware of what is really going on.  

                      They don't know who or what to protest.  

                      Back in the day, journalists were free to report the truth.  Now most people are bombarded with lies generated by the very people they should protest.

                      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                      by CIndyCasella on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:43:51 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  brilliant n/t (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Badabing, CanyonWren, ohmyheck

                      Gaia is heartbroken.

                      by BlueDragon on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:16:09 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  To me, this is the most important diary (11+ / 0-)

                      I have ever read.

                      You have articulated what I have been trying to say for a long time.

                      I have printed it and will refer to it often.

                      In my humble opinion, this is brilliant and prescient.

                      It may not be recognized by many, but I have sir recognized it.

                      Very well done indeed. Thank you.

                      (Man today's Kos is outstanding. Many good journals here today.)

                      Wesley Brown
                      Medford Oregon

                      It is time to declare war on the corporations.

                      by Mean Mr Mustard on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:01:23 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  please diary this comment (6+ / 0-)

                    Please consider expanding this juicy comment into a diary with links. I would love to know more about "the capitalists [who] are largely abandoning America" and where they're going and why, (maybe why; that might be another diary) and some examples of the potential seed projects that are springing up. I can contribute one for consideration: Guerilla Girls. I'm happy to see they were written up in Planetizen: Guerilla Greywater Goes Public Policy.

                    It's not about the hundred people whose minds you can't change. It's about the two people you empower. ~ Beth Ditto

                    by dejavu on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:29:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Thanks for the link. (3+ / 0-)

                      I want to develop my ideas a little further first, but I appreciate the encouragement.

                      Greywater recycling and runoff utilization are great.  I lived and gardened in the Southwest years ago, and learned to appreciate the necessity of using every drop.

                      Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all. - JM Keynes

                      by goinsouth on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:03:48 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Wow. Today is a great day to read Daily Kos. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Badabing, ohmyheck

                    So much information and ideas. Thanks.

                    It is time to declare war on the corporations.

                    by Mean Mr Mustard on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 10:30:26 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  excellent post goingsouth....I copied and paste (5+ / 0-)

                    it to my word program to read later...I think you are correct....

                    Our 'government' through their actions (an our in-actions) has sold our very jobs from underneath us..this has destroyed our very nation, and now that Wall Street/The Banks have gotten away with trillions, has have the war profiteers, we are left with these 'ghost towns' that can no longer provide the tax base to ensure our nation survives...

                    So instead of correcting this 'Corporate Oligarchy Madness' our 'government' on both sides of the isles are simply doubling down, and are now going after our final safety net.

                    Like I said, it's never enough..ever.  That is why if we do not take action and March (the same way our ancestors did) or create a National Strike, this 'madness' will continue.  You can take that to the Bank.  Our leaders have failed us miserably, and I can probably count on one hand the true progressives in our party, but these few, are so overwhelmed by the 'bought off Corporate Whores' that, 'we the people' just no longer can put the public trust in their hands.  They have ruined our nation, by ruining our dignity to make a decent living wage and support our families, and they have literally stolen trillions of dollars from the very people that gave them the 'privilege' and opportunity to serve this nation.

                    Thanks for your post, I always look forward to your take on things.

                    B.

                    ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

                    by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 10:50:49 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  good enough for America's WWF politics (18+ / 0-)

            Fake heroes, fake villains, fake storylines, fake punches ... all with the outcome never in doubt no matter who's in the ring.

            •  53% of us thought we were voting for real Change (8+ / 0-)

              in 2008.  A lot of us are rethinking that proposition now.  

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:09:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  whose change? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wonmug, rf80412

                A lot of people voted for someone else to change everything for them.  Americans as a whole did not vote for themselves to change anything, they just wanted Washington, DC to change and didn't realize that they have to be willing to change also.  Americans are too selfish to sacrifice on their own, and no one is asking them to sacrifice anything.  

                Did everyone get their new iPhone this week?  Lordy, who has time to march on Washington when they've got a Wii and an iPhone.  That's our trade off: "stuff" instead of peace and prosperity.

                Just because you're self-righteous doesn't mean you're not a hypocrite.

                by AMcG826 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:57:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Well, (5+ / 0-)

            technically, I said "among the masses" and in reference to several different discernible pockets or enclaves of vocal social unrest.

            We are all the masses. :)

        •  We are the change Bonnie, remember that? (34+ / 0-)

          We are 'the tipping point' that is the point of the diary...to stop blaming and look at ourselves in the mirror, and say:  I am the change, I am the tipping point:

          When all is division, arrogance, and cowardice, who will use empathy, humility, and courage to find the right arguments that will unite us in a war against the right enemy?

          We unite ourselves and give one another the courage to carry our message.  There is strength in unity and with unity there will always still be some 'division' but there is a 'purpose of will' to go towards the same direction, like a great wave or tsunami of people who demand change and demand that our 'Corporate Overlords' stop destroying our middle class, and start earning their paychecks...

          The right argument is that we are Americans, and we have worked our asses off to get President Obama elected and it is time for we, as progressives' to stand up and be counted.

          For the sake of our children, if we do not do this and join hands in organizing with extended marches and activism, then what you and I are going to get is more of the same:

          A corrupt government that holds no one accountable, a corrupt Military Industrial Complex that President Eisenhower warned us about, a corrupt set of Politicians on both sides of the isles that are gutting both the Health Care and Financial Reform bill so that business as usual, and the final safety net of Social Security will be ripped right out from underneath us..

          You want more of that?  I sure as hell don't.

          ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

          by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:03:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Perhaps (10+ / 0-)

            you missed that I was responding specifically to the generalized condescension of individualistic, capitalistic American culture in which we never see ourselves as taking part. My point implies the hypothesis that there will be no effective "tipping point" unless we can change ourselves in such a way that enables us to communicate while rejecting these right-left political divisions that only perpetuate the misery you seek to overthrow.

            We "progressives" are not the only Americans. We "as progressives" will never be able to use the same strategies and tactics that we "as progressives" used then--in the marches, in the streets--without being open to offering an invitation for others to join us.

            These invitations contain responsibilities: responsibilities to reflect upon our assumptions, and to acknowledge the validity--not the factuality, but the VALIDITY, the actuality--of the beliefs of those who DO stand screaming in the streets out of an anger that we ALL FEEL.We feel the same anger and the same heartbreaking premonition that unless we do something drastic, the America we love will completely become the America we hate.

            So my question still remains: Can we change ourselves in the ways we need to in order to make sure it is the America we love that is not lost? Should we? How would we begin?

            Who is "ourselves?" Who is "we"?

            How can we (the we as in, like, everyone) talk about and to each other without making the mistakes "they" NEED us to make in order to solidify the divisions between us? "Their" weapon is Division and I'm doing my damndest to make it backfire.

            I am this change because I think through this and act through this and talk through this everyday. I am the tipping point, then, because I refuse to join hands as a "progressive" or as a "woman" or as a "student" or as a "leftist" or as an "activist" or as anything other than an American, and because I refuse to march under any banner besides Old Glory.

          •  some editing feedback: (3+ / 0-)

            I've been lurking lately since the endless BP Oil spill continues to perpetuate ecological and financial terrorism at the rate of 2.5 million gallons of oil a day, ruining lives, an entire ecological system that may never survive, and sending Americans into such despair that there are growing numbers of people on the Gulf committing suicide, having lost everything; their way of life, the land and sea they loved, a way to make a living as fishermen/women on seas they revered, with no hope in sight for a future that no longer exists for themselves or their families.  

            change "ruining lives" to "and ruins lives"
            strike "that may never survive"
            change "and sending Americans" to "and sends Americans"

            the semicolon? change it to a colon.

            and change "with no hope in sight... families" to "hopeless."

          •  We've got to make clear (5+ / 0-)

            that not only won't social security and medicare be cut but the MIC WILL be cut. Spending over half GDP to fund death must absolutely be stopped.

            The Universe is strange enough, you don't have to add hocus pocus

            by rsie on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:14:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe we have become too me me. (4+ / 0-)

            I remember protesting before and after serving the Army during the war. Maybe we have become too weary? Maybe some are too lazy to do their part? Or maybe they're all just too disillusioned to bother.
            Best writing and discussion I've seen on the subject.

        •  Lots of discontent but unorganized (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing, cameoanne, worldlotus

          And everything possible is done to diffuse that discontent and prevent it from coalescing around any radical proposals. I don't think the Dems will do that badly in November, but their proposals will not be enough.

          In 1934 homeless Vets marched on DC.  Then there were sitdown strikes at many factories.  Today the chief means of protest is walking away from ones mortgage or not paying the credit card bill.  Something, but not nearly enough.

          Your new Democratic Party: Billions for the bankster boys and not one dime for abortions. Even if it's your dime.

          by Mimikatz on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 10:05:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It is also (7+ / 0-)

        caught in fantasies of its past glory, fantasies that are no longer sustainable.  Tipping point?  I think we're already past it.  

        Die energie der Welt ist constant; die Entropie der welt strebt einem Maximum zu. - Rudolf Clausius, 1865

        by xgy2 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:06:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Outside? Care to elaborate? (6+ / 0-)

        Looking for salvation from outside our country gets into pretty murky waters.. are you sure you want to go there?

        "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

        by Skeptical Bastard on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:23:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  we need to do it now, or we are a punk. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, Looking for Mauve

        this is the tipping point.  this is where we need to start helping each other.  talk to your neighbors or face it alone.  if you think i am full of shit, you may be mistaken.  look up and face it.  

        vote for me.

        •  We need to get off KOS except for organizing (7+ / 0-)

          put down our keyboards and get out into the neighborhoods This place isn't reality or even close. Remember it starts with you, your house, your street, your neighborhood, city ... This is the only way we will move forward together. And HELP your neighbor, what ever they need. If you don't know the answer find it and learn. We have been in ours for four years plus, we are known as the go to folks, good folks who care and people understand that, they really do. We have even without planning become good ambassadors for democratic values. Our block was mostly republican, not so much now because it wasn't a republican who listened or help or cared.

          •  To me -- (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Badabing, snackdoodle

            "KOS" looks like it could use a bit of organizing too.  Let's start with you.  What's your vision of the world after capitalism?

            "Any sensible person right now would join an anticapitalist organization." -- David Harvey

            by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:15:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  why doesn't KOS organize a march? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Badabing, cameoanne, zizi

            instead of mocking the glenn beck's of the world and there faux marches why don't the bloggers all get together and organize a real march? i know marches don't do anything and all. but maybe then and only then will they believe that we all aren't eating cheetos in our parents basements???

            •  that is a good question..Kos has great power in (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vcmvo2, on the cusp, cameoanne, zizi, kfd313

              political world and instead of using the front page as a 'gossip rag' and using the politics of division, it would be wonderful if Kos, would conduct a Crash the Gate Peace March, calling on all Democrats, calling on all Americans to stop the endless wars on Labor Day of 2010.

              I challenge Kos to take his position seriously, and do just that.

              I get very tired of reading about what the latest 'Republican gaff' was about.  I don't really give a shit about any of that.

              I want change, and I want leadership in our party.  Is Kos ready for this step?  

              I guess we'll see.

              B.

              ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

              by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:42:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Our salvation was supposed to come from Obama, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cassiodorus, Badabing

        and the American people displayed an amazing tipping point by electing an African American with a Muslim name, who promised us peace, a new energy policy away from big oil, and change we could believe in.

        Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

        by CIndyCasella on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:56:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  now you know what it was like (5+ / 0-)

        to be gay and seeing many of your friends die while the government and Reagan and the corporations did nothing.  The US government is still run by the corporations and for the corporations.  If you think by getting a few democrats elected is going to even come close to stopping their damage to our earth you are on the wrong planet.

        It will take much more.  Obama is just as bad as the rest of politicians when it comes to letting the corporations call the shots.  He has no power because he has no real organized base of people willing to rise up and put an end to this mess.

        He is a paper tiger because we are a paper tiger.

        All we are capable of is throwing few bucks at another democrat and making jokes about Sarah Pallin and the tea baggers.

        We need a much better plan than that.  

        Pass new laws to end media monopolization now.

        by john from vermont on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:53:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hey bada - thought you gave up (13+ / 0-)

      Good to see you back and ripping em up.  

      ...someday - the armies of bitterness will all be going the same way. And they'll all walk together, and there'll be a dead terror from it. The Grapes of Wrath

      by deepsouthdoug on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:23:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The draft would be a tipping point (33+ / 0-)

      I think, which is exactly why we don't have a draft. People wouldn't stand for it. But those who rule us have learned the lessons of Vietnam well, have outsourced most of the non-cannon fodder war jobs to private firms, making it possible to fight wars without a draft (although we don't seem to be winning any of them). Then there is the successful censorship of the wars we are in, which relegates these conflicts to an easy-to-ignore noise that is far, far away. Independent battlefield reporting is a thing of the distant past.

      At any rate, it's great diary, and I have often thought about this subject, what does it take before Americans say enough, and why haven't they already? I think every working person in this country senses that they have been fucked over by a system that allows Wall St to pocket billions while corporations send our jobs to India and China.  Just as the baby boomers reach retirement age, their pensions and 401Ks go up in smoke, they want to make you work til you're 70, and steal your social security (which you've already paid for) to boot.

      It is an entire system , it's not just the bankers, not just the corporations, not just the Republicans... it's all the people in Washington DC that have enabled all of this, the synergy of big politics with big money, both Democrats and Republicans. We elected a new president and essentially everything is just going along as usual, the wars, the environmental degradation, the terrible health care system, the povery, the mass incarceration, the unemployment. I don't see any big changes.  

      It is hard for me to blame the average American as it's not their fault that this same system has been so success in dumbing them down and lowered their expectations.  No job security, no unions, lousy public education, unaffordable secondary education, and nobody can afford to go to the doctor. Most people are distracted with trashy entertainment and propaganda, hooked on cheap credit and the acquisition of disposable consumer goods, and eating food that is destroying them. It's a synergistic screw job, we've been sold out and now it's too late, the money is long gone, we are just printing money to finance fight wars while our nation's infrastructure crumbles and our state governments go broke.

      I think most folks (especially people with kids) are so busy just trying to make ends meet that they don't have the energy to do much else.

    •  If a tipping point didn't happen when... (21+ / 0-)

      ... it became clear that nobody in a position of power was gonna make any attempt to bring Bush, Cheney, and the other Iraq, Afghanistan, TORTURE war criminals to justice, then you've gotta wonder if ANYTHING can do it!

      We should be in the streets for THAT, too. Demanding that our gov't step in and DO something to hold the slimes accountable... demanding that this "look forward, not back" garbage STOP!

      So I'm not holding my breath waiting for people to get out and march for justice re. the "robber barons" or the BP killers, when they haven't yet shown any inclination to do it re. war criminals. Hopefully that'll change, though... because it sure ain't gonna be our government that's gonna do it!

      "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

      by ratmach on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:16:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How do you get through this without even... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      ...mentioning the name "Obama"? That is some serious teflon.

      Stunning.

      Dump Obama: An ethical sewer who ignores his legal obligation to prosecute people who tortured prisoners to death. Good at photo ops, though.

      by expatjourno on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:02:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Some Americans are willing (5+ / 0-)
      To suit-up and show-up: Teabaggers.

      Something for Liberals to think about.

      "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

      by koNko on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:09:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  National vs. Regional (5+ / 0-)

      'Cat Food Commission' is coming after our Social Security and Medicare to - finish us off.  As long as we have anything, their work is not done.   The Gulf was a regional accident.  The rest they did on purpose.

      They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

      by dkmich on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:55:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the only tipping poiont we have (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tommyfocus2003, xaxado, worldlotus

      reached is the tipping point in the ecology via The Gulf Volcano.

      The vast majority of Americans are just as you describe:

      It is a moral failure of our own citizens, of our own nation, of our own cowardice

      But even if we could send millions into every symbolic power center in the nation to stand and protest, the plutocracy knows that they have us trapped.  They know that we are too selfish and confused as a group to do anything at all, not even field decent candidates for our elected representatives.

      Since April 20th, I have changed what I believe about what can happen.

      It ain't pretty this new thingy that I believe.

      I do not think millions in the streets will be effective in any case.

      We need a totally different kind of movement.  One that organizes with completely different actions as their goal.

      No more phone calls, no more donations in the absence of real action.

      If we are to save some good people, and I really mean some, because most will die, we have to build something that has never before been seen.  Places like this would be the logical sites for a discussion of such plans, but all this discussion is shut down by repression of justified criticism.

      If we cannot accept that we have failed, that capitalism is in free fall, that the planet has to react to the horrors we have committed with some sort of correction, that our populace is wallowing in selfishness, then we can do nothing at all positive.

      Everything proposed here now seems to me like MISDIRECTION.  

      We do not have our eyes on the Prize.

      Baby boomers are the youngest people alive who witnessed real change.  The rest of America is blind, deaf and dumb.

      Gaia is heartbroken.

      by BlueDragon on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:36:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well said all, BlueDragon! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, BlueDragon

        All of it especially so these bits:
        "..we have to build something that has never before been seen"

        and

        "If we cannot accept..."

        and

        "Misdirection"

        I want to be clear that I am one of those baby boomers albeit too young for participation in the civil rights movement but not too young for Viet Nam/ the anti war/flower child/Panthers (etal)/Kent State/Mother Earth "movements"...

        Young enough to have babysat for POW families and grow up to the loss of loved ones & classmates to Nam.  Young enough to have witnessed beloved leaders being slain, brothers and sisters of this nation being gassed, hosed, beaten and shot for protesting.  Respected elders/leaders words and deeds soul imprinted.  

        Movements, words, actions that made a difference in ways big and small.  And imho, continues to this day-in ways big and small.  Perhaps passed on to our offspring.

        When I first heard Barack Obama speak (way before he announced)& then much later stumbled upon dailykos & the netroots, I experienced a dejavue type thing & a hope long not felt.

        Not a hope that some magical being would alone transform what needed transforming.  Rather a hope that voices/actions/movements from a distant past was being rekindled or reborn.

        Not saying the same voices/actions/movements of then-that time is past.  There was no "Patriot Act" then & whatever horrid things that can now be used to inflict harm.

        Rather the spirit & the guidestones left (there are many) to use & update to fit our todays & tommorrows.

        I speak from the heart when I say this about hope & the pride I feel; of the excitement & joy I experienced at what was accomplished by those in the "movement" that put Barack Obama in the Whitehouse.  And to be honest, I felt similar about all the young people who worked just as hard for Ron Paul.

        Because it was something not seen before & because of the passion absent in the past 40 years (from my point of view)

        Critique is always a good thing as long as it is utilized productively.  A platform never before seen used built and used successfully to help elct this president.  I cannot help but believe that the momentum is now for enhancing and broadening similar to create the good.  To enlighten and inform.  To bear witness.  To network and to build networks that could bring change in the lives of all our brothers and sisters in every community.

        A gentle reminder.  There was no "funding" for the Panthers.  Yet because of them, schools across America have free lunch programs.  Habitat for Humanity had no funding, yet today builds houses world wide & engage in "house building blitzes" where people worldwide come to build X amount of homes across geographies.  On their own dime & time.

        Churches have started up in living rooms.  Food pantries have started in closets.  Hosea Williams fed multitudes-with no "funding"-begging chickens sometimes, heh, & alot of ordinary brothers and sisters and later on businesses donating time & dollars...

        The examples are countless and happening in ways both small & large across this nation. Do not give up.  One can advocate, be a grassroots or netroots activist warrior with or without funding, make a differance, be the change.  Key is focus locally as well as nationally. Somehow bring all those small & large niche groups together as one voice for each interest (ie community,alt energy,food insecurity,disability, elders, etc)

        Better than marching.  Use that same power to build something never seen before and help sustain it.

    •  Badabingo! I love, love, love this diary! (5+ / 0-)

        You hit the nail on the head.

      We have to BE the change.

      Will some of us who protest be shot?  geez, I hope not

      Will some be arrested?  most likely, Amy Goodman was, remember?  and for doing nothing, btw.

      So, badabing, who will organize the marches.

      Yes, marches.  Every day, until this ends:

      Top 1% Income Gains Highest Since 1920s

    •  isn't it called 'learned helplessness" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing, cameoanne

      the American public have been put on a continuous diet of toxic foods, pharmacocktails and 24x7 uber concoctions of shock,awe and drivel to the point where we are too fat, too drugged and too brain-dead to see, feel, react. Talk to almost anyone about Americans ... it used to be god they are fat, they are obnoxious, they are loud then it was post 2000 well, they were taken over in a coup, now its .... WTF is wrong with these assholes? I've observed how people abroad and visitors attitudes towards Americans has morphed over many years. THEY know what's happened to us.

      Too proud (or too controlled) a president to accept the offers of help from governments across the world for huge tankers that could've sucked up this oil weeks and weeks ago...

      What's left? I just don't know.

      be like jello! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYEg1b8IZ7U

      by boatsie on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:04:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm with you boatsie...got it. (0+ / 0-)

        they were taken over in a coup, now its .... WTF is wrong with these assholes? I've observed how people abroad and visitors attitudes towards Americans has morphed over many years. THEY know what's happened to us.

        It is learned helplessness, but it is worse than that.  It is no one's fault but our own, because we stopped doing what worked in the past.

        We forgot where we came from, and how we got here, and we allowed our corrupt bought off government to lie to us, and get away with it.

        Regards to you boatsie..

        B.

        ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

        by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:49:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Tipping Point Means Tht a Growing Mass of Society (113+ / 0-)

    accumulates on the side of change until it starts to happen.

    Part of the reason there was a tipping point with Vietnam is that the media had been airing large amounts of reality programming. That was very helpful in motivating the draft pool to resist and eventually troops to resist. There were also numbers of honorable, even admirable societal leaders from many walks of life speaking out against the war, and the media carried some of this content.

    The reason there can't be a tipping point now is that essentially all the institutional world aligns with the rightwing corporatist world that supports war. And since the massive media deregulation, media are giant corporations sharing the same interests as the other corporations. And mainstream religion is overwhelmingly rightwing now.

    There is nothing nonrightwing to modern society except the occupants, and a few of their small advocacy groups like unions and occupant-interest groups.

    The people are really the only part of society that can shift away from the rightwing consensus. For 30 years that's never been enough to tip any issue.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:17:31 PM PDT

  •  Grim as it sounds (42+ / 0-)

    You may be right - if there was a tipping point in this country where people took en masse to the streets, it would have happened during the Bush years.

    The fact that it didn't then proves that it probably can't happen anymore in this country, even to save our own lives.

    And that's a damn scary thing.

    77% of voters support a public option, Congress.

    by ShadowSD on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:19:22 PM PDT

  •  why worry about tipping over when things are (6+ / 0-)

    Everybody takes me too seriously. Nobody believes anything I say. - Philip Whalen, The Madness of Saul

    by rasbobbo on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:19:28 PM PDT

      •  Thanks, Obama! (14+ / 0-)

        Another dangerous hack on an important committee that will determine what is in our best interest.

        Like it or not, the people he appointed are a reflection of Obama's beliefs.  That doesn't say anything flattering about him.

        There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

        by Betty Pinson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:10:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is where I just seriously (5+ / 0-)

          think about giving up.

          They're going to slash Social Security, laying the groundwork for its complete destruction.

          Since blue collar men and people of both sexes in poverty will know they have less than a 50-50 chance of ever seeing a dime from it after the hike, they'll no longer have any reason to support it.  With means testing, the well-off will have no reason to support it.

          But there's nothing we can do.  The Republicans favor the cuts.  There are enough "Democratic" Senators who never intend to run again or figure the voters will have forgotten by 2016 that they can do it in a lame-duck session and face no consequences.

          I see absolutely no way to stop it.

          "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

          by JesseCW on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:31:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So now you know (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ChemBob, Badabing

            why Obama supported Blanche Lincoln over Bill Halter.

            "Any sensible person right now would join an anticapitalist organization." -- David Harvey

            by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:40:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Jesse....we stop it now, by beginning to March (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cassiodorus, Midwesterners

            I see absolutely no way to stop it.

            and to form a movement...that it how we stop it...we stop it the same way that we stopped other things happening in our nation in the past...

            stop believing that Marches do not work....stop believing that the 'media' will not cover it, stop believing all the lies, and look at your history.

            you want more of the same?  that is what you will get if we let them do, what they plan to do, which is to strip us down to the bone, and leave us living in card board boxes or tent cities..

            you get it?  it's now them or us....

            Look at your history.  Have faith in those that made change happen over the past 250 years, and be ready to fight for your rights, because you are going to have to, if you want to stop this Oligarchy Madness.

            ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

            by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:41:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And by finding a new Dem candidate (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cassiodorus, zedaker, Badabing

              to run against Obama in 2012, unless he provides us with some concrete proof that he is no longer selling out to the GOP.

              Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, sorry.

              There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

              by Betty Pinson on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:13:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  One of my Friends at Work (5+ / 0-)

        Is an old-school, hard core, fiscal conservative.  Until Dubbya, he was religiously Republican.  He makes A LOT of money.  More than certainly I will ever see.

        Yet if you even mention the idea that Social Security should be means tested, he goes absolutely ballistic.  Incoherent, almost.  Because to him, he PAID for it.  To him, it is sacred and therefore, touching it for ANY reason is anathema.

        He almost spits when you mention the idea that social security has to be cut to be "saved."

        A surprising ally in the fight, but I suspect we're going to find a lot of surprise allies like my friend if they are serious about gutting Social Security.

        But frankly, at this point there really is not much left.  After all, they are simultaneously working on destroying public education, so with that two-fer we can pretty much guarantee that if whatever tipping point is out there doesn't get hit pretty soon, the country itself will fail simply because folks will either be too old, too hungry or too ignorant to focus on more than their own little corner of the universe.

        If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

        by shanikka on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:50:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  He HAS to Be On Alcohol or OxyC or Something (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      Boehner, that is, not Joe Higgins.

      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

      by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:03:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can't think of many people I talk to who don't (32+ / 0-)

    think we're controlled by greed and power hungry entities.  But things haven't gotten bad enough for a mass uprising and people don't know where to focus their anger.  Assuming things are only going to get worse, we need a plan for major citizen pushback.  One way would be marching on D.C., but only so many people can get there.  Another would be marching on all 50 state capitals.  And then we have the vote, which we don't use effectively on issues because of the two party system.  A coalition of progressive websites would be helpful.  A leader or leaders.  I don't know, I reached my tipping point when I opened this beer.  

    "I will no longer be labeled, except as a human being."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:41:17 PM PDT

  •  And there is no straw that broke the (22+ / 0-)

    camel's back.  

    BadaB' I think you're correct.  

    I think we've all been "Me-First!ers" since the 70's, and during the good times that meant the hedonistic pursuit of wealth, possessions, and feel-good-experiences.

    Now that the times aren't so good, we're still Me-First!ers, but it now means that we have cloistered ourselves into protecting what we still can, and railing against those who (we think) want to take it away from us.

    In any case, for forty-some years we have deconditioned ourselves against giving a rats-ass about anything or anybody else, so we're not about to rise up and demand anything on behalf of the collective good.

    Great diary, sad conclusion.

    We come well armed with organic leafy greens... not guns.

    by VeganMilitia on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:41:35 PM PDT

  •  Fear (20+ / 0-)

    One thing that keeps me from becoming too active

    is fear of the police, FBI, CIA, NSA,

    Homeland Security, and the countless other Govt

    black mask secret police that can come and remove

    you at their leisure.

    Plus the fact that they can just kill you outright

    without too much fuss or bother.

    They now do preemptive strikes on teenage children

    living communally in broken down houses.

    Their pre-crime offence was planning to protest the

    RNC convention in MPLS USA.

    USA is a police state and any kind of civil protest

    is now a criminal offence.

    Maybe the tipping point has moved in favor of self

    preservation ?

    Regards,

    "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

    by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:50:03 PM PDT

    •  wow. (7+ / 0-)

      you wake up every morning.
      and go to sleep every night?
      feeling like this?

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:26:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Feeling like this ? (14+ / 0-)

        I am American but live outside of USA now for 15 years.

        I live in Thailand.

        I work around Asia and also Eastern Europe.

        I am semi retired now.

        I have since 9/11 seen USA turn into a very serous police state.

        I don't feel that Thailand is a police state.

        China is a police state but their people have more
        personal freedom than Americans because they don't
        have such a conformist mindset like Americans do.

        They are personally much more accepting of ethnicity or personal life style choices.

        This I say from personal experience (working) in the region so don't take my word for it if you disagree.

        I've actually had Americans tell me what the people over there (outside America) are like even though they have never even been there once.

        My feelings about police state are mostly centered around America.

        Regards,  

        "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

        by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:55:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  thanks for answering. (4+ / 0-)

          and the explanation.  
          now it makes sense.
          i think it seems worse when you look at us afar.
          when you're here.
          all give a rat's ass about is you getting to the beach before traffic starts.
          well, at least here in NJ that's the way it is.
          no one cares.
          my blue blue state just voted for some crazed right wing loon governor so i give up.

          THAILAND?
          oh so jealous.
          so so so very very jealous.
          like heart stopping jealous.
          i would love to live here.
          I have SAD.
          my doctor told me the only cure is thailand.

          "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

          by Christin on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:58:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You really believe... (19+ / 0-)

          ...

          China is a police state but their people have more personal freedom than Americans because they don't
          have such a conformist mindset like Americans do

          ?

          You mean, like, inside their heads? Because I think if you, say, set up a blog in Shanghai calling for even a two-party
          system in China or nuclear disarmament or disengagement from Tibet, you're likely to find that personal freedom a little constrained.

          Haley Barbour: "No one has more to lose in this deal than BP."

          by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:11:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In their personal lives (3+ / 0-)

            What I mean is the people have a lot of freedom to live their lives as long as they don't come under the scrutiny of the Govt.(sound familiar)

            They don't have the class (economic) stratification that America has.

            They don't have the ethnic stratifications that America has.

            They don't have religious stratification.

            Yes they have a horrible Govt.. but so does USA.

            I've worked right across China, North, South, East, West and their personal freedom shocked me.

            Regards,

            "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

            by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:22:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, you've been there, so what do... (5+ / 0-)

              ...I know?

              But, really, no ethnic stratification? What about Han-Uyghur clashes in Xinjiang, or Han-Tibetan clashes? What about rural vs. urban? And my understanding - from reading and a couple of discussions with Chinese living in the States - is that 30 years of driving down the capitalist road has, in fact, created significant class divisions.

              But I am open-minded in these matters since my knowledge is, as noted, sparse.

              Haley Barbour: "No one has more to lose in this deal than BP."

              by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:30:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  perhaps because it is written in poetic verse (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            walkshills, Sam I Am, CMikkelson

            Poetic license has been taken?  

            USA as a police state is arguable;

            perhaps it is hyperbole.

            PRC as a police state is arguable also;

            but perhaps not within China itself.

            We come well armed with organic leafy greens... not guns.

            by VeganMilitia on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:26:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I live in Thailand also (9+ / 0-)

          I agree that Thailand is not a police state, but it also does not have a strong legal system. If you were to get caught on the wrong side of a civil or criminal issue you can throw out your American concepts of due process.

          I suspect you know all too well that the accepted wisdom of us farangs (foreigners) is that if you get in legal trouble here, you grab your passport and head for the border ASAP.

          Your views that the Chinese

          people have more personal freedom than Americans

          is, for lack of a better term, bat-shit insane.

          One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble ... Murray Head

          by virginislandsguy on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:19:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Strong Legal System (0+ / 0-)

            And who does that strong legal system support ?

            The weak ?

            The poor ?

            The down trodden ?

            In Thailand there is a tendency for people to work out the Liabilities outside the legal system.

            This tends to favor the poor people.

            So yes if you have something to lose you must be careful and not crush all those little people in your path.

            Regards,

            "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

            by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:29:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wolfgang Pauli (0+ / 0-)

              has this great quote that goes

              This isn't right, this isn't even wrong

              Your advocating that

              In Thailand there is a tendency for people to work out the Liabilities outside the legal system

              which is nothing more than mob rule, is superior to the Rule of Law is not worth even attempting to correct.

              Also, your contention that

              This tends to favor the poor people.

              So yes if you have something to lose you must be careful and not crush all those little people in your path.

              is flagrantly ignorant of the class and power structure of Thai society.

              One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble ... Murray Head

              by virginislandsguy on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:46:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  For lots of Americans it is like a police (4+ / 0-)

        state.  If you are black and poor, for instance. Once you get arrested, and have that CORI, that stays with you forever, you are screwed out of any kind of decent life. And, yes, you are afraid...a lot.

        •  It was a police state back int he 60's - Christ, (4+ / 0-)

          the National fucking Guard showed up, but WE STILL MARCHED.

          Jesus, ever hear of J. Edgar Hoover?  Nixon's thugs?

          We're starting to get to the real reason there isn't any mayhem in the streets.  SOME people are pret-ty fuckin' easily dissuaded.

          Next we'll hear from the "we have familys, homes, jobs.  We don't have the luxury of cutting classes and laying around till 2 in the afternoon after rioting in the streets all night." crowd.

          And, oh yeah, let's hear from the "ballot-box beaters."  I WENT to the fucking ballot box and all I got was RICHARD FUCKING NIXON, TWICE.  Excuse me for suggesting a protological conclusion for your "ballot box" solution.

          In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

          by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:17:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Back in the day (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            melo

            dendron gnostic,

            Back in the 60's was different than now.

            You must agree ?

            Now we have, computers, hand phones,

            microwave crowd dispersal trucks,

            state sanctioned torture, Patriot Act,

            Homeland Security, enemy combatant status,

            Also we have, Declining World Oil Reserves,

            Collapsed Fish stocks in the Oceans,

            Nuclear Proliferation ....

            I think there is much more to be afraid of now than

            back in the day.

            Seems like back in the day people had hope for the future ?

            I am 52 and I wonder about the next ten years ?

            Regards,

            "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

            by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:11:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Cowering won't protect us. This is... (18+ / 0-)

      ...hardly the first time in U.S. history that dissenters have been targeted.  

      Haley Barbour: "No one has more to lose in this deal than BP."

      by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:08:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cowering (0+ / 0-)

        What kind of protest would make the people in power sit
        up and take notice ?

        A march ?

        Regards,

        "Nearly everything you do is of no importance, but it is important that you do it" Mohandas Gandhi

        by CMikkelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:35:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm convinced that the only (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing

          thing that would actually be noticed or reported is if the march shutdown the government. That would entail many many people willing to be arrested for that to happen. Unfortunately, that is what it will take since there are no longer any branches of this government that represent the people. Was it Thomas Jefferson that wrote about the people throwing out an unjust government?

          The Universe is strange enough, you don't have to add hocus pocus

          by rsie on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:33:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Though to acknowledge the fear is OK (5+ / 0-)

        indeed appropriate.  Acknowledgement may lead to cowering, or it may lead to resistance, to self-preservation, or to another response.

        We come well armed with organic leafy greens... not guns.

        by VeganMilitia on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:43:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's what I'm talkin' about! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CMikkelson, Badabing

        FUCK "THE MAN" - where's your god-damned SPINE, people?

        In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

        by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:18:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  as you quote Gandhi, rise above your fear. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      viscerality, Badabing

      fear is but one of many emotions, instincts, and behaviors above which we must rise.
       

      We come well armed with organic leafy greens... not guns.

      by VeganMilitia on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:37:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  got to agree with this guy. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo, Badabing, on the cusp

      i live in germany now. came to europe 4 years ago. the longer you live outside the US the more screwed up and insane the place looks. frankly i dont ever want to go back there. it isn't a place for decent people to live.

      Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

      by johnfire on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:59:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  People in the US did protest. (8+ / 0-)

    And we saw how the media ignored much of those protests.

    But hey, lets take a look at the numbers. You cite France. Well, it's a lot easier to get from one side of France to the other, than it is the U.S.

    Now then, having said that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    In October 2002, protests took place in various cities across the world. Over 100,000 people took part in a protest in Washington. 50,000 people took part in a demonstration in San Francisco.

    By Jan 2003 another set of (mostly media ignored) protests were attended by large crowd that was no longer being size-estimated in DC (est ranging from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands), while San Francisco attracted 150,000 to 200,000.

    Forget France. In London 2 million people showed up.

    You also must realize that during the Vietnam War, protests were not only well covered, but people were protesting A LOT OF THINGS. Civil rights, feminism, etc.

    After the Kent State shootings, 100,000 people protested in DC. That's the same as in 2002 over the Iraq impending invasion.

    Diarist: How many people do you think would have showed up in 2002 if four college students were gunned down in Ohio for protesting the war?

    Fucking millions.

    So let's be real here. Stop with this "you people ain't got the guts" crap.

    •  Not the diarist but (19+ / 0-)

      I don't share your view that millions would show up to protest a Kent State like incident. Wish I could,but I can't.

      "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

      by tardis10 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 07:56:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kent State/Secret Bombing of Cambodia (7+ / 0-)

        "Kent State/Cambodia Incursion Protest, Washington, D.C.: A week after the Kent State shootings, on May 4, [1970], 100,000 anti-war  demonstrators converged on Washington, D.C. to protest the shooting of the students in Ohio and the Nixon administration's incursion into Cambodia."

        That is the same number of people who protested October 26, 2002 BEFORE any invasion of Iraq.

        How many people in the U.S. protested BEFORE we went into Vietnam?

        The comparisons to protest during the Vietnam War era are not valid. Protests in this country now take many forms. Back then, the options were limited.

        I'm pretty sure that in 2002 if we had a draft, tens of thousands of dead US soldiers, a secret bombing of a neighboring country, and then four college students killed on campus by the National Guard, the protest would be massive. WAY more than in 1070.

        •  All protests are valid bluicebank, if there is (10+ / 0-)

          something worth fighting for...that is a false assumption on your part....

          Do you know 'how many marches' took place to stop the War In Vietnam?

          Do you know 'how many marches' took place to push the Civil rights act in?

          How about thousands of marches for many many years.  This wasn't just a one time event, these marches took place over a very long period of time.

          Perhaps it will take a draft as you say, or another bombing, or things may have to get worse, before we finally do what our ancestors did,

          Movements toward real activism, don't take place overnight..

          Again, stop blaming the media, and take a look at yourself.  That is what I'm doing...have the courage to do the same.

          ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

          by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:33:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was born in 1965 (3+ / 0-)

            but my parents were very much alive and active in the 60s. When my parents started protesting against the Vietnam War in 1966 or so - two years after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution signaled the start of a war without further Congressional limitations - most of their neighbors on the liberal Upper West Side of Manhattan supported the war. It was only around 2 years later that their friends started to come around.

            By contrast, there was just about an even split on attacking Iraq before Congress voted to give Bush a blank check to do so, and that was even at a time when a lot of people had been snowed by all the bullshit about Saddam somehow being in league with Al Qaida, his mortal enemies, and having nuclear weapons he was in a rush to give to terrorists to attack us.

            I agree with most of what you've said in this diary and in the comments I've read so far, but bluicebank has made some accurate points in this subthread.

        •  Possibly if all those other conditions (4+ / 0-)

          you added in to your original remark were present,most especially the DRAFT & the loss of thousands of lives,we would have similarly sized protests today. And those protests would be frequent. Umm,because a tipping point would be reached.

          The tragedy today,imho,is that with all the transparency & knowledge available,the facts we know (far more than was available in the 1970's), there is so little resistance or pushback, hell so little discussion of any of it.

          "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

          by tardis10 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:36:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The deduction from that (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            melo, rsie, Badabing, ozsea1, tardis10

            is that we haven't found the proper tool or means to leverage the truthful narrative.

            Part of this just may be the volume issuing from the corporate-owned press and the associated gop groups: their volume is like the totality of the marches against the vietnam war and associated issues...their information is spewing vaster than the well in the gulf.

            On that level we don't seem to be compelling, nor competing at all. We need to find a level where we can compete - that is, confront and defeat these strands of information. We don't do whisper campaigns well, nor black psyops nor long term calculation. And we never seem to realize that the opposition doesn't have to be right or accurate or delicate...they just need to muddy the water in some fashion or switch the focus of attention like you do with a two-year old.

            Blogs like this can be a means...but they need amplifiers and penetration into the informational streams where they will do some good and they need a narrative tailored to that info stream.

            This is wave structure, not linear point-to-point. The flow of energy is information.

            And we do lie...we make movies. We are great at making movies and republicans suck at it. Right now, that is one of the best amplifiers out there. I'm sure there's more.

            The truth is we are tortured by the truth.

            by walkshills on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:42:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Actually the first Viet Nam protest was 1945 (0+ / 0-)

          looked it up on wikipedia.  

          "Before we went to Viet Nam" - you mean before we started helping the FUCKSTICK FRENCH, who were FUCKING IT UP before we took over with advisers, not unlike how we started jerking the Afghanis around when the Soviets invaded.  Or before we REALLY cranked it up, with the absolute bullshit lie, the WMD of Viet Nam - the Gulf of Tonkin incident?

          In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

          by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:42:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  this is how it is done...stop blaming the media: (19+ / 0-)

      I was there, I'm an old broad...I know what I'm talking about...

      get over it.

      You are the tipping point.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:00:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Europe has unions, big time. (5+ / 0-)

      They are a vehicle for organization.  They can shut down the entire country. We need something like that. The trucks don't roll. The subways stop. The stores don't open. The offices don't operate. The workers really run everything.  Any secretaries out there?  You know, you are the reason the whole business is operating, don't you?  If, for example, all the secretaries in the USA struck for one week, the entire oligarchy would be reeling, and then we could talk demands!!!  Trouble is there is not much solidarity among workers now. There used to absolute respect for that picket line. You.did.not. cross.

  •  With the advent of 24hr cable news... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, enough already, bee tzu, m00finsan

    you can kiss goodbye any chance of millions marching on Washington. I guess the exception to that rule would be the millions that marched against the beginning of the Iraq war. We all know what good that did us.

    Believe it or not, you and the thousands of others that are posting on blogs probably have as much clout if not more than in the street marches. The press does pay attention to these blogs.

    So I say poo poo to the activists that claim blog postings aren't real activism. Let them get out and trollop the streets to convince the cynical public of their views. You are probably having more impact with your diary.

    If we don't collaborate to save Alan Grayson's seat then we deserve to be in the wilderness.

    by jec on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:08:21 PM PDT

  •  Most of my American ancestors suited(painted) up, (13+ / 0-)

    marched , and were cut own by US Army bullets.

  •  What's this based on (7+ / 0-)

    ... out of curiousity?

    ... and sending Americans into such despair that there are growing numbers of people on the Gulf committing suicide ...

    thanks

  •  Invaluable reminder. (20+ / 0-)

    We just don't have the guts to do it, and you can blame the media all your want to, but I know exactly how the War in Vietnam ended.  I know exactly how Civil Rights were finally enacted.  I know what it means to organize and to stop blaming everyone else but ourselves.

    And gay rights (what progress we've had) and abolition. And don't forget women's rights and...

    We get contributors around here, who "grieve," in these vague comments, that Obama has "disappointed" them. Sigh. People, he's not the Second Coming of Christ. He's a fucking politician.

    From the grassroots perspective, democracy is, and ever was, strictly a do-it-yourself operation. Leaders, when they realize a serious democratic reform is politically necessary, relent to public pressure. That's the only way meaningful social change has ever happened.

    •  Amen, it is the ONLY way change has ever happened (8+ / 0-)

      in our nation...just study history...from the Labor/Union movements, to ending wars, to civil rights, for any kind of change, that is exactly how it has happened.

      Standing shoulder to shoulder, with continued pressure and continued organizing and marches....

      Nothing will change, until we show up, and show our government who the hell is paying their paychecks.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:42:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  For me it was Martin and Malcolm and yes, giggle (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hester, Badabing, Abra Crabcakeya

        if you want, Abbey Hoffman and Alan Ginsberg and the Fathers Berrigan, not that fat fuck Hubert Humphrey or Lyndon The Glum Texan.  And William Sloane Coffin and Norman Mailer.  Counry Joe and the Fish.

        Not the slicker-n-catshit culture of mass-produced Meh! we've got now.

        In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

        by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:27:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  we are a nation of individuals (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hester, karmsy, Badabing

      there is no community in this country
      americans have no sense of belonging to a larger group or consciouness therefore there is no ability to think of the possibility of millions rallying for a cause

      i don't know what has spurred this individualist thinking in the last couple of decades but it is very apparent in every aspect of dail life everyone is out for themselves

  •  I somewhere read that (6+ / 0-)

    To cover up for falling profits (or for more profits?), Wall street is now after SS/Medicare and public education - to privatize them so plutocrats can make money through stocks. Seems they might get both like George Carlin said. We can learn a thing or 2 from those "lowly third world" Greeks besides the French to wield pitchforks.

    •  I think Wall St's grab at those things (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, Badabing, Calamity Jean

      began well before now.

      RWs are always preaching the voucher system as a means to take down the public schools.

      Bush the Younger tried to privatize SS in 2005.

      Numerous govs & state legislatures have gutted social service prorgrams for years, even when times were good.

      I'm watching the John Adams series on HBO right now. I see so many parallels to these times.

  •  I guess the premise of this diary is that if (14+ / 0-)

    there were a series of marches and protests against the financial elites, the politicos would have the guts to regulate them further - enough and to  topple the most egregious.

    It's been said before, but the reason this isn't happening is that people think that the corporatocracy has won and that they are powerless to do anything about it.

    Ralph Nader tried to rally the troops. He did, but the several million he rallied weren't anywhere near enough.

    Some thought Obama might serve as an inspirational leader to rally people against the oppression of the financial elite. Maybe he thought he would.

    This diary is a start. But, what's needed is a rallying cry and a more-clear enemy. People are stewing about everything of which the diarist writes. But, what would turn the stew into a fireball of protest. Wish I knew.

    Kos created a site promoting a variety of views & communities; some [believe] they created dKos & it should conform to their image of it. MKSinSA 2/7/10

    by David PA on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:18:36 PM PDT

  •  You're right. (6+ / 0-)

    "...I know exactly how the War in Vietnam ended.  I know exactly how Civil Rights were finally enacted."

    But here - on DKos, and on the blogosphere as a whole - that argument was settled long ago.  Rightly or wrongly.

    We 'maximize our leverage' by blogging.  Street demonstrations aren't effective any more.  And so on.

    I went to an Impeach Bush rally in 2007 with Coleen Rowley - we looked around and were immediately struck by the reality:  everyone was over 50, except for some who had brought their kids (like me).

    They're too fucking smart to try the draft again.  And it's the end of oil and coal that's more important anyway, these days.

    We need something else...

    It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

    by Jaime Frontero on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:20:19 PM PDT

    •  Oh really? When was that decided? I didn't (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Christin, blueoasis, jonnie rae

      get to vote on that one...please let me know where to read the 'Decision' on 'Just to Blog' from here on in...I'm be interested in that part of the Democratic Platform....

      But here - on DKos, and on the blogosphere as a whole - that argument was settled long ago.  Rightly or wrongly.

      We 'maximize our leverage' by blogging.  Street demonstrations aren't effective any more.  And so on.

      sheeeeeeeseeh....guess I must be out of the loop....

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:46:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You misunderstand, I think. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Annalize5, blueoasis, Badabing

        I don't like it either.

        And I believe (having done it in the 60's) that getting out in the street is a hell of a lot more effective than whatever might be in second place.

        But like I said - and if you've been to many recent large demonstrations I doubt you'll argue much (were you at the 9/24/05 DC demonstrations?  it was like old home week for me) - the people that get out there are over 50.  We're dying off, and the knowledge we accumulated isn't held to be of much value.

        I wouldn't have Recced your Diary if I didn't agree with you.

        It's a shame you'll be re-inventing the wheel...

        It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

        by Jaime Frontero on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:25:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is another powerful event happening (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          melo, Badabing, Abra Crabcakeya

          and that is this media we're on.

          You're right that blogging - utilizing the net to organize, research, gather support and resources and give people a contemporaneous entre into events - is one of the most democratizing and powerful tools the public has ever had available. You can reach more people faster if you have something of value...not that we always do, but that is what we come here for.

          Blogging is just one aspect. This is a media occurring...growing and morphing, with both a brilliant and very dark side - and it will create its own environment. And in a relatively short time it will contain and engulf all other media.

          Creation is right here, right now. This is alive. Our responsibility is to keep it that way, even though it is largely an invisible environment and we couldn't stop it if we wanted to.

          If the whole world over history has had the same fucking problem as we're having right now, the call to action should be on a far grander scale, don't you think?

          The truth is we are tortured by the truth.

          by walkshills on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:03:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well that's nice - and to some degree... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            forester, Badabing

            ...you're probably right.

            But how do we translate that into... you know... doing stuff?

            I'm all about the internet.  I've been on it since before pictures; when it was text-only, in UNIX.

            And as a new media, it's amazing.  Truly.  The abilities we now have to connect, to plan, to exchange information, and to out the maggots for what they are (can you say Wikileaks?), are phenomenal.

            Do you know how we used to do it?  Some poor sucker would wander around Greenwich Village with a bunch of flyers and a staple gun, putting up the dates for the March on the Pentagon.  Sometimes that sucker was me.

            And over a million people showed up.  Because there were ten thousand suckers just like that guy, in ten thousand cities all over the country.

            So now we've got all these cool new tools.  And all I'm asking is this:

            Who's showing up?

            It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

            by Jaime Frontero on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:17:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Don't have a direct answer, Jaime (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Badabing

              but I do see more powerful narratives forming all the time now. That's something that wasn't really here two years ago on such a wide scale and it does bring clarity, one thing sorely missing among those who could be motivated and moved.

              Clarity - straight up factual information - usually creates a new level of threat for many people. That might seem bad, but usually those people were harboring many diffuse fears anyway. But being directly and personally threatened is more motivating than diffuse fear.

              I have no direct answer on what it takes to get people to show up - that's almost a slogan itself, you know - but that little piece of the equation is part of it.

              The truth is we are tortured by the truth.

              by walkshills on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:29:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Historic heandline (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing

        BLOGGING BRINGS END TO THE WAR IN IRAQ

        Yeah we'll be seeing that real soon!

        This war is already longer than the Vietnam War, I think if blogging was an effective protest, then it might have been over already.

        We elected a guy who promised to end them but I'll bet anyone here $50 that we are still involved militarily in both Iraq and Afghanistan in 2012.

  •  2.5 million BARRELS a day??????? (11+ / 0-)

    Don't you mean 2.5 million GALLONS? If not, please provide a link because that's news to me. Thanks.

    There is no more important struggle for American democracy than ensuring a diverse, independent and free media. - Bill Moyers

    by StepLeftStepForward on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:21:01 PM PDT

  •  A friend who heads-up the "Recruitment Office"... (13+ / 0-)

    .
     . . . at major University's quite reputable MBA Program told me just yesterday that not only has she placed all of this May's newly-minted "Financials-focused" grads, but that she wishes she'd had 15 more, because she could've placed them all.  She said that she's been stunned by this, first, because overall placement for new MBA's is off rather sharply since '08, and, second, she thought that placement in the financial services industry would be off even further.

    But, no, the derivatives trading and all that other risky-ass, "moving-paper-around-to-make-money" shit is going on just as it was 2-3 years ago.  They're hiring, in fact.

    .

    "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

    by BenGoshi on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:26:16 PM PDT

  •  Where's $20B that is supposed to make it right? (6+ / 0-)

    Why is anyone put out of work or who's business is stopped due to BP blowout suffering in any way? Why isn't the $20B being spent making up for their lost income?

    This is Obama's deal and he better deal with it fast.

    Headlines of empty beaches all over Gulf coast which means thousands of businesses and hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are without income they would have had before the BP oil blowoout.

    Gets back to the $20B orginally, way to little. Easy $200B and only an oil tax can cover the cost.

    •  there isn't enough money in the world to pay for (16+ / 0-)

      what BP has done.  The regulator switch, which Europe requires (and the US Regulators do not require - because they are so fucking bought off by the Oil Companies) would have cost BP $500,000.

      Think about how insane that is:  $ 500,000 and all of this could have been averted.  It is not just a matter of safety, it is also good solid business for BP...

      That is the stupidity and insanity of all of this...and you can best believe, BP will never pay for what they have done...they will wiggle out of it..

      Mark my words.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:50:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It will be there in a few years. Chill out! nt (0+ / 0-)

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:03:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What? chill out, tell it to the people in the (7+ / 0-)

        Gulf, tell it to all the people that will die from the toxic poisons...

        Chill out?

        Your are unbelievable....omg...chill out...

        It will be there in a few years. Chill out!  

        A few years?  That's really good to know...it should have been done from the get go, what don't you get about that?

        $ 500,000 dollars is chicken shit to BP and all this could have been a nightmare that never needed to happen.

        ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

        by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:26:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sarcasm, I assume (I HOPE, at least) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        k9disc

        "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

        by ratmach on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:45:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  needed a snark tag... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hester, Badabing, JesseCW, ratmach

        I was pretty surprised to find out that it was a payout schedule:

        http://ca.news.yahoo.com/...

        Svanberg announced the company would not pay dividends to shareholders for the rest of the year, including one scheduled for June 21 totaling about $2.6 billion. The company will make initial payments into the escrow fund of $3 billion this summer and $2 billion in the fall, followed by $1.25 billion per quarter until the $20 billion figure is reached.

        So a few years... for the escrow account.

        Not cool at all.

        Sorry about the miscommunication.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:00:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  For perspective (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hester, alizard, blueoasis, Badabing, JesseCW

      20 billion is 1 tenth of 1 percent of the country's GDP.

      Does anyone think that the damage of this spill will exceed that?

      I do.

      For the elite there are no material problems, only PR problems. Time for a new elite.

      by Paul Goodman on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:19:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  depends what you include. but yes, I do (0+ / 0-)

        think it will top that. i read in the nytimes that some experts think it will top $65 Billion

        "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read." Groucho Mark

        by hester on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:33:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Looks like BP is going to 'decide' on how much (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hester

          'they' should pay out for damages...can you fucking believe that?

          For now, government and BP working together to assess oil spill damage

          By Juliet Eilperin
          Washington Post Staff Writer
          Sunday, July 4, 2010

          In recent weeks, the Obama administration has sought to distance itself from BP in handling the Gulf of Mexico oil spill -- with one notable exception: When it comes to assessing how badly the spill has harmed the gulf, the two sides are working hand in hand.
               
          Their shared goal? To calculate the incalculable: how much it will cost to restore the gulf to its pre-spill state.

          But this close collaboration between federal and state authorities and BP -- which is routine procedure under a legal process known as the Natural Resource Damage Assessment (NRDA) -- has begun to spark concerns among lawmakers and some environmentalists.

          "I want this to be independent, for the credibility of the information," said Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), who as chair of the Environment and Public Works Subcommittee on Water and Wildlife will hold hearings this month on the issue.

          The collaborative approach, established under the 1990 Oil Pollution Act, marks a sharp departure from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill, where the federal government kept the oil company at arm's length. Exxon hired its own boats and experts, who followed state and federal officials at a distance, replicating the tests they believed were being done so they could provide a rival analysis.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

          Amazing....why does this smell like a fucking dead rat in a wood pile?

          BP gets to decide what 'damage' they have done and put their 'own' price tag on it?

          Like I said:

          Oligarchy Corporate Madness is Upon Us....

          Gosh this Shock Syndrome is Fun!!!!

          ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

          by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:02:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  what makes this 'obama's deal?' (0+ / 0-)

      what, exactly? the unsafe practices he used in drilling the well? the mess at MMS? what?

  •  What is a "tipping point"? (9+ / 0-)

    If a "tipping point" is some day in the future when we win battle X once and for all, then that doesn't exist. Just look at torture - we thought it was as established as a moral evil as slavery is, but it came back.

    If a "tipping point" is the day that fighting doesn't feel so lonely, well, that comes and goes. It's worth looking forward to if it keeps you going.

    If a "tipping point" is a victory of any kind - that's up to us.

    Basically, I don't think that looking forward to a tipping point is as useful as looking back to the generations of heroes who struggled before us.

    Senate rules which prevent any reform of the filibuster are unconstitutional. Therefore, we can rein in the filibuster tomorrow with 51 votes.

    by homunq on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:34:16 PM PDT

  •  Oh my god (19+ / 0-)

    A recent CNN report claims that the vast majority of those who worked on the clean up of the Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989 are now dead, and one expert told CNN that the life expectancy for those who worked on it is about 51 years.

    I don't have anything to say. Thank God I am drunk or I'd be heartbroken.

    •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, Badabing

      I just wanted to mention that no TARP funds were distributed until after Thanksgiving 2008. We could have waited to pass that bailout. Instead Obama whipped for the plan which the Bush treasury had kept on ice since the spring.

      Yes taxpayers  may technically profit from it and nationalization would have been more expensive. But that is like saying that because national health care would be more expensive than are current patchwork quilt it is worse. We would have been better off as a whole if we had dealt with TBTF. Citibank will probably be bailed out for  a 4th time in a few years.

      •  You realize (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, Alice Olson

        that the exact opposite is true, I hope.

        But that is like saying that because national health care would be more expensive than are current patchwork quilt it is worse.

        Universal Medicare would, of course, be much LESS expensive and cover everyone.

        "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

        by enough already on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:43:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The 5-million "Let Us Eat Bread" Torchlight Vigil (12+ / 0-)

    at Congress. Permanently present at the Capitol, the "torches" being flashlights shown on our institutions of government — all three branches.

    Big Money has how many hundreds or thousands of lobbyists for each and every Congress person? How many lobbyists, logged and unlogged, deal with the White House?

    Our Lord and Ladies can't hear us or see us anymore. We're just dupes and props to them.

    I see absolutely no way to change the politics of this nation better than that we invest DC. With lights shining on these fuckers at their place of work, when they appear on the streets, wherever they meet and dine and party.

    They need some perspective, and quickly. As long as they don't have a deep-down sense of our displeasure, they ain't going to do shit that makes sense.

    Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

    by Jim P on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:36:31 PM PDT

  •  Righteous rant. (7+ / 0-)

    Yes, we have been played for the sucker, again. Citizens of the USA continually vote against their own best interests.

    Happy Independence Day.

    The great tragedy of Science, the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. T. H. Huxley

    by realalaskan on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:36:47 PM PDT

  •  Great work Badabing... (14+ / 0-)

    as usual.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Save the Internet!

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:37:24 PM PDT

  •  You said in your diary (4+ / 0-)

    that

    that there are growing numbers of people on the Gulf committing suicide, having lost everything; their way of life, the land and sea they loved

    Yes there is a whole bunch of sucky stuff going on all over the world but there is no evidence for this claim.

  •  We spent $8.5 trillion on the Wall Street bailout (12+ / 0-)

    and with all that money the foreclosures continue..

    I still believe we should have bailed out consumers and shored up the banks that way.

    "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" - Dorothy Day

    by joedemocrat on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:46:28 PM PDT

  •  Curious (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Christin, eXtina, MichaelNY, Eric Nelson

    What do you suggest as a solution?

    •  I suggest that we began organizing huge marches (28+ / 0-)

      Washington DC in the fall.  We march for jobs, we march for the rebuilding our industrial base, we march for real reform in health care and against Wall Street, and we march to end tax shelters for the Oil companies and demand accountability for those who tanked our economy, and then got paid off for it.

      We march to end the war in Afganistan and we march to put an end to allowing Corporations to send our jobs overseas.

      We march against using the Social Security fund for anything other than what it was intended, and we march for decent Medicare for our elderly.  

      We strengthen our Unions again, and we demand that Wall Street/the Banks start standing up and acting like patriots and putting their money into our nation, instead of bleeding us dry, and getting away with it.

      I also suggest a National Strike lasting an entire month.  Everything comes crashing to a stop, until our government responds to the Middle Class who built this nation and are being destroyed.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:59:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  are you under 30 B? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pam from Calif

        just curious.
        :-)

        "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

        by Christin on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:02:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wonderful. (5+ / 0-)

        We need more people waving the red flag of danger, and less cheerleaders.

        The national strike is an idea whose time has come.

        For the elite there are no material problems, only PR problems. Time for a new elite.

        by Paul Goodman on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:15:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I love your passion. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, Badabing, MichaelNY

        You know,it could happen. But people have to be willing to be arrested, gased, clubbed, have thier phones tapped, their activities watched. This has all happened before.

      •  March--& take away their keys until they behave. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing

        I see you wrote about a National Strike. But don't go a month! We don't want to STARVE ourselves either! Better read up on that technique a bit more.

        By the way, if the working poor organized a massive national strike, they'd have the middle and upper classes on their knees even faster than the middle class their bosses!

        Let's not divide the workers. . .just responding to the "built this nation" comment.

        Remember the effort to convince the upper classes to clean their glasses.

        A significant number of them would then join us: such a coalition would be rather constructive.

        By the way, Badabing, email me, and I'll give you an essential key to overcoming the media brainwash.

        The future: a riddle inside an enigma wrapped in a search engine.

        by Ignacio Magaloni on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:37:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds good (5+ / 0-)

        But somebody has to organize it. And the national strike is definitely not going to happen, least of all in these times of want. But the demonstrations should be organized. I'm not volunteering to organize them, but if one is set up in New York (there really should be one here, too, preferably at or near Wall St.) at a time I can go (I generally teach Saturdays and so far haven't felt like my students' education and my fairly meager living should be set back by my absence from the classroom), I'll be there.

        It seems to me that with all the anger people have here, there should be some people with enough time and talent for organization to plan the demonstrations and liaison with other left-wing sites for co-sponsorship.

        One thing I think people may not be thinking about enough is that while the mainstream media may not cover left-wing demonstrations adequately or accurately, there is such an increased web presence now that these things can be documented online and go viral. The internet may not be free for much longer, so we need to use it for democratic action while we have the chance. And that definitely means more than merely blogging and organizing letter-writing and petition drives, useful as that may be.

        •  you are willing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing

          to spend your time on one of a zillion marches we have already held in the country to no avail since the civil rights and vietnam era, but you have the audacity to declare a national strike impossible?

          so you want to spend time on the ineffectual and deny what would at least be different and garner attention because it was different?

          Gaia is heartbroken.

          by BlueDragon on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:09:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I have the "audacity" (0+ / 0-)

            When did the last general strike happen in this country? This is a time of great want, and you think a 1-month strike is possible? OK, you organize it and prove me wrong, and I won't hold my breath.

            For my part, I am an Adjunct Professor. It's not a union position, and if I went on "strike," I'd be replaced right away and go broke. You want to go on strike, do it, and good luck to you.

      •  No, not marches (0+ / 0-)

        just an internet site where we can all get on the same page.

      •  national strike (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, ohmyheck

        makes sense to me.

        sending millions to dc does not.

        Gaia is heartbroken.

        by BlueDragon on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:06:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  B'bing, the National Strike has been (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, ohmyheck

        going on for years, manifesting as "don't buy anything".  Some people started long ago, voluntarily, and many have joined them over the years, some of them not at all voluntarily, and, as we have seen, it has had a profound effect on the financial sector and capitalism in general.  Without consumers demanding stuff, it creaks to a halt, beyond the minimal effort of supplying basic commodities.

        It should be remembered that "supplying basic commodities" is the original need the tool we call "the Market" was created to satisfy. Any "wealth" beyond the health and well-being of the population created was entirely incidental to the dynamic.

        In this terminal perversion of that dynamic we have seen evolve in the past generations, creation of "wealth" has been the driving force, augmented by the creation of artificial desire and easy credit; the "stuff" itself has become almost incidental.

        don't always believe what you think...

        by claude on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 03:01:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Concerts.Music has always been the voice of the.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo

      ..people

      I don't want your country back..I want my country forward - Bill Maher

      by Eric Nelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:45:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Solution: (0+ / 0-)

      A million of more Americans siging up to this site: http://www.convusa.com

  •  Naomi Klein identified this in 2008 (26+ / 0-)

    when, in Shock Doctrine, she described the neo-liberals as addicted to looting economies of countries, needing to move on to the next victim as soon as a country either was bled dry or woke up and kicked them out.  The sums stolen are staggering.  When I was young, I used to fantasize about how much money I would get if everyone in a full stadium gave me a nickel.  I would multiply times the size of the crowd to figure what it would be worth, always amazed at the large result.  These guys have worked out a way to do just that in spades.

    Anyway, I believe they are literally addicted to the heist, meaning that only a intervention will end this behavior.  Like the diarist, I don't sense that one is forthcoming.

    Are you journalists, or are you rushing a sorority? - Jon Stewart

    by geomoo on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:52:54 PM PDT

    •  Did u read "Confessions of an economic hit man"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      That's just what we've been doing. Looting other countries.

      "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read." Groucho Mark

      by hester on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:37:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What "we've" been doing? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hester, Badabing

        You mean what the corporate crooksters and banksters have been doing.  I don't identify with that particular "we" category, even if they are Americans.  I have nothing to do with World Bank or the IMF or Wall Street or the government enablers.

        But the "we" I do identify with is their current victims, we Americans are now under seige by the banksters' shock doctrine.  We're living it!

  •  Reminds me (9+ / 0-)

    Robert Reich in "Reason" points to the social changes of the early 20th century in reaction to the Gilded Age.  Basically, people grew sick of the status quo.

    It wasn't a "tipping point," it was a gradual wave of indignation.  I suspect that's what we're seeing now.

    •  It also involved bombs (10+ / 0-)

      and a whole lot of folks getting murdered by Pinkertons. Do we have the stomach for that today?

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:02:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The bombs weaken social movements by giving (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, Eric Nelson

        legal violent force (police, FBI, etc.) ammunition for their fear drives and persecution of organizers.

        By the way, violence is so convenient to them, when social movements do not use violence, they plant instigators in those movements (look up COINTELPRO), or just treat them as threats anyway.

        Not to mention the corrosive nature of such ideas to the work of non-violent non-cooperation.

        Come to think of it, GAW, why are YOU suggesting such stomachs be found? Things are difficult enough just trying to organize in this environment, you know?

        The future: a riddle inside an enigma wrapped in a search engine.

        by Ignacio Magaloni on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:43:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you really think I'm saying (0+ / 0-)

          we should use bombs? Seriously? Is that what you think of me?

          Bombs or no bombs, though, we are gonna need the stomach for getting murdered.

          "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

          by Geenius at Wrok on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:40:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The tipping point will come when enough people (23+ / 0-)

    decide they no longer have anything to lose.

    Right now, people are inhibited from taking drastic action almost entirely for one reason: fear for their jobs.

    When enough of them no longer have jobs to fear for, look out.

    Naturally, the system will try to keep the country just short of that point for as long as possible.

    "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

    by Geenius at Wrok on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 08:57:28 PM PDT

  •  we need communism again (4+ / 0-)

    That's what saved the middle class in the US. The threat of an alternative to rapacious capitalism.

  •  On target, Badabing. As for marching on DC... (34+ / 0-)

    ...however, let me demure.

    Not that I have anything actually against protesting in Washington. I watched Martin Luther King's speech there in 1963 on television and it was a watershed for me, as were all those thousands on the Mall. I was in DC to picket in 1966, and to "levitate" the Pentagon in 1967 and for the moratorium in 1969.

    But these days I think we should put the demonstrations in our backyards, so to speak. Because that's where the damage is being done. And with the budgets of cities and states getting royally ripped by the recession, that's only going to get worse over the next few months (lasting quite likely for years).

    So instead of 797,000 of us in DC - which requires all the hassle and expense of getting there - millions of us should protest in the streets of our own cities. And at the district offices of Congresspeople and Senators. Easy to get there. No overnight expenses. Just pick one day for the whole nation.

    Now, I know that your argument is that there's no interest in doing this. But we won't know until we try, eh? Progressives' slogan should not be "But it's too hard!"

    Haley Barbour: "No one has more to lose in this deal than BP."

    by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:03:12 PM PDT

    •  we must be about the same age MB... (5+ / 0-)

      I get your ideals on this, and I agree with some, but disagree with others....

      Progressives' slogan should not be "But it's too hard!"

      It wasn't too hard for our ancestors to show up and be counted, no matter what history required of them, and I still hold to my beliefs, that change happened in our nation over long periods of time, with many marches (both for Vietnam and Civil Rights)...but I remember those days, as you do, and I remember sleeping on buses and inside cars, I remember not being able to take a shower for a few days, and not giving a damn because I wanted to be with my fellow friends who believed in the same things I did. We held each other 'up' and cheered each other on...and we whined about our discomfort, but we kept going...we kept showing up, and we kept fighting....

      but that was way before the internet....

      I will always believe that if it was worth fighting for, then it was worth showing up for....

      And I still believe that MB...

      Warmest regards to you as always..

      B.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:43:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  good point, MB (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      forester, Badabing, BlueDragon

      but people feel safer and more anonymous in giant numbers, the small crowds gathering in wherever-out-there USA will get id'd and their lives harassed.

      i think the internet will be the multiplier, but first some combo of moyers, hightower, and some other elements has to emerge.

      a grayston without the israel baggage.

      crickets

      as for tipping points, i do believe in the 100th monkey theory. we all have our personal tipping points when we wake up and start the long job of taking back our power, starting with little things, and gradually moving outwards.

      when enough personal alarms have gone off, the collective will self-organise, as is indeed happening here at dKos, and has been since its inception. i know the ostensible reason is to elect dems, but it's the free flow of radical ideas, and the desire for truthful media that makes it what it is, and people need to come here to learn facts they can then share with their friends and neighbours, without getting their phones tapped and such.

      impossible to predict when that 100th monkey moment occurs, but it will happen, it always does. it has to, or we all roll over and cave... and there are too many smart, creative, informed people around to let that happen. right now the numbers are building, and we're only just entering act 2. so many out of work will find time to figure out hows and whys of how they got screwed, the teabaggers' concerns about fiscal responsibility and unintrusive government are doing some of our work for us, useful idiocy has its place.

      why? just kos..... *just cause*

      by melo on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:36:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bingo! "100th Monkey" theory! (0+ / 0-)

        ...good idea for a diary, IMO.  I don't know how many Kossacks have read it.

        One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity nothing beats teamwork." - Mark Twain

        by ohmyheck on Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 10:00:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  protests do little good in a police state (12+ / 0-)

    we used to be able to affect the media coverage and get our message out to the masses by staging large protests. That is no longer true. Protests are now controlled by the police and shunted to the side where they can't disrupt anything or have any visability. If any group won't go along with that they're labeled violent anarchrists and jailed, often before the actual protest.

    Protests will no longer work and we haven't got to the tipping point for revolution yet.

  •  I suspect that when enough of the meek (15+ / 0-)

    inherit the out-of-doors, and the money for social services is all gone, and the lines at the trash bins start getting really long...that might have some effect.

    "A cat came to stay here for a while, and I look scared at it and it looks scared at me. Such is love." - marsanges

    by Miep on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:05:59 PM PDT

  •  Other Big '60s-'70s crowds we'll never see again (9+ / 0-)

    Since we're comparing different eras, let's talk about rock concerts in the U.S.

    1. Summer Jam at Watkins Glen. 600,000 people.
    1. Woodstock. 400,000 hippies. Some say 500,000.

    Now to be fair, Steve Wozniak's US Festival in 1983 garnered 670,000, so a nod to the '80s.

    It should also be noted that in 1986 the New York Philharmonic gathered an astonishing 800,000 people in Central Park. Free concert. I love classical, but last time I checked Beethoven had rolled over in his grave.

    OK, in 1997 Garth Brooks pulled in 750,000 ... in Central Park. But that's country music. And Central Park.

    Again in Central Park, Simon & Garfunkel brought in 500,000. Free concert in 1981. Don't count.

    The KEY to a successful concert: Hold it in the 1960s or '70s, or in Central Park for free.

    NEXT time there's a war protest, hold it in Central Park, don't charge admission, and book Rod Stewart (who holds the record of 3.5 million in concert attendance at his 1994 gig in Rio de Janeiro).

    I'm just saying.

    ;-)

    •  bb you must have visualized the how to's for (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo, bluicebank, Badabing

      population gathering..Bill Graham had a similar skill too although..

      ...his was more crowd control than gathering.. yet it's still the minds eye skill

      I hope badabing sees your comment, your concert idea seems like the most instantaneous, mainstream method to bring eyes & ears to the bullshit being slung to gut more out of our nations wealth.

      Music has always been the peoples voice

      I don't want your country back..I want my country forward - Bill Maher

      by Eric Nelson on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:36:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  $75 per ticket - crowd won't be very big. Free , (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      or even affordable for the bottom 50% of us - you'd get yer 500,000.

  •  More to Come (4+ / 0-)

    The methods used by former generations won't work for us. The media doesn't react to protests like they did in the last century, and neither do the politicians.

    But we are making progress as we slowly take over the political process. Ten years ago no one would have mounted a challenge to a sitting Senator, let alone depose one (like we did with Specter). We've got a lot more members of Congress on our side.

    The way forward is to continue to organized in the political process and work through the Democratic primaries. Give your money, time and votes directly to the candidates that mean the most to you. Participate in the online political community.

    In the not-too-distant future, candidates will need to get community support. No amount of advertising will matter. No amount of corporate money will buy an election. The people will simply decide among themselves online, and what the community decides will be the result after the polls close.

    We need to work on our process, and frankly, blogging is a valid way to get a future worth working for.

    •  Huh? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Liberal Thinking, blueoasis

      Ten years ago no one would have mounted a challenge to a sitting Senator, let alone depose one (like we did with Specter).

      In 1980, Alphonse D'Amato primaried Jacob Javits on the Republican side here in New York and knocked him off the Republican line. Unfortunately, he was still running for the Liberal Party and divided liberal votes with the Democratic candidate, Elizabeth Holtzman, whereupon, D'Amato won and stayed in the Senate for some time.

    •  And how is that working for you? (6+ / 0-)

      Give your money, time and votes directly to the candidates that mean the most to you.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:24:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Right (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo, catnip, churchylafemme, BlueDragon

      The people will simply decide among themselves online, and what the community decides will be the result after the polls close.

      Tell that to Deibold.  

      "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

      by enough already on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:57:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, thanks. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      I'm thinking of leaving Kos because the gloom and doom is getting intolerable.

      If the conservatives had been so pessimistic in 1982 or so, what would've happened?  They stuck it out, folks.  

      I'm just tired of the gloom-and-doom diaries.

      •  A Little Levity (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, MichaelNY

        I wouldn't worry about the gloomy diaries. I'm sure they're written by gloomy people.

        I really think that things are improving because of the Internet. With the Internet community that politics is improving. More people are involved, more people see what's going on, and more people vote based on solid information.

        So, I hope this cheers you up!

      •  I had a great time tonight (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Liberal Thinking, Badabing

        I walked across town to the beautiful Hudson River, saw a long fireworks show, happened upon some great bellydancing, then heard two sets of excellent Post-Bop at Smalls, got a quite decent chicken gyro sandwich to go, and had some Haagen-Dazs caramel "five" ice cream. I also had some fun texting with my girlfriend, who's in Boston visiting friends this weekend.

        There's a lot of bad shit happening in the world, but spending too much time online feeling terrible won't help. Action is necessary and important, but taking the time to get off the computer, interact with people in person, and do things that make you happy - some of them based on spur-of-the-moment decisions or serendipities - is really what makes life worth living. If we don't appreciate and enjoy life however and whenever we can, what will motivate us to work to make things better for more people?

  •  Most people live from week to week and (6+ / 0-)

    can’t afford to make a trip to DC. For most people, a safe trip to DC by car would involve lodging etc., so you could get back and forth without falling asleep at the wheel, otherwise it’s flying in and out of DC which is even more cost prohibitive (most of the time). A lot of the teabaggers are retired or independently wealthy (or both), which makes it a completely different story for them.
    Hitting the streets of DC is not free.

  •  This is the state of the nation (9+ / 0-)

    The American people are simply too beaten down and paralyzed with fear to demand justice from their leaders, much less defend their national honor. They didn't rebel and take to the streets after the Abu Ghraib torture policy was exposed in 2004. No outraged millions marched or agitated or demanded accountability when Bush, followed by Obama, asserted that executive authority allowed them to have any citizen put to death without charges or trial by simply declaring him or her to be a "suspected terrorist". There was no great united public outcry demanding that Congress open impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney for establishing illegal concentration camps for the purpose of implementing state-sponsored torture. There were no protests when Obama continued and concealed the existence of these practices. The people of the US didn't demand that the nation make an honest attempt to rectify it's policy when they finally understood that hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children had been murdered in a war based on deception and lies. They remained mute when General McChrystal said 'We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat".
    The cities and towns of America didn't ring with howls of disgust and indignation when it was confirmed that US Special Forces really did kill three innocent women (along with two officials of the Karzai government) during a night raid on a compound of civilians in February of this year. All the weekend TV talk shows were silent in the face of this atrocity, one among too many to count. No talking heads or pundits denounced the month-long plethora of lies that the Pentagon told about the murders. The Democrats in Congress again didn't bother to initiate a special committee to investigate charges by American-appointed Afghan officials that the Special Forces troops had actually used knives to dig their bullets out of the corpses of the butchered women in an attempt to conceal their role in the assassinations. When peace activists including an American citizen were murdered in cold blood on a boat loaded with desperately needed supplies meant for terrorized civilians there were some mumbled words of "regret" from the White House and little else. When informed that $7 billion dollars are now spent every month to bankroll a fraudulent war for corporate profits in Afghanistan the avenues and boulevards of America echoed the people's silence.  

    There is no "tipping point" because there is no evidence that the vast majority of the American people care one bit about the crimes committed in their names. They have demonstrated time and time again during the last decade that they will close their eyes to any deviant act, no matter how despicable, when financed by their tax dollars and carried out by their government. They will coddle and defend political leaders who employ a massive a war machine and ruthless military violence against innocent people. When the chips are down, when it matters most, when the truth is a blinding light that can no longer be ignored or rationalized, they will always, every single time, fail to do what is right and noble and decent. They will always abdicate their collective responsibility.

    Illegal Alien: Term used by the descendents of foreign colonizers to refer to the descendents of indigenous people

    by mojada on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:27:07 PM PDT

  •  lol (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BonnieSchlitz

    Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

    by tomjones on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:27:08 PM PDT

  •  Fear (6+ / 0-)

    Fear is what drives people to change. In fact, it might be the only thing that ever drives anyone to change. I think the economic crisis will bring change. Perhaps not massive change, but change in relation to the scope of its tragedy. The oil spill has much less ability to affect change because it doesn't invoke as much fear.

    The type of "tipping point" you are looking for with respect to energy can only come from shortages of a resource. A few news reports of empty grocery shelves as a result of oil shortages could do what thousands of dead birds on a beach can not -- create fear that would drive people to change. But absent that, high gasoline prices are likely to drive people to alternative fuels over a long period of time, but without any dramatic "tipping point."

  •  as I wrote earlier today ... (8+ / 0-)


    Why do we mix "Trust Funds" Income and Obligations, into the same pot, as our National Defense Obligations?


    People who pay Unemployment Insurance and FICA Taxes [the Trust Fund] ARE "Entitled to" the Benefits those Programs provide --

    We may be forced to bear the long-term costs of Endless Wars, which are frequently maintained off-Budget -- BUT that DOES NOT imply Military Corporate Interests ARE "Entitled to" -- co-op OUR Social Programs, nor our Freedoms, nor our Economic Security.


    People have a right to Invest in our "Common Welfare".  (It's in the Constitution.)

    Corporations to do not have a right, to turn Citizens into paupers.  (That's guaranteed, Nowhere, that I can find.)

    The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

    by jamess on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:44:34 PM PDT

  •  If you're right (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, AreDeutz

    i suppose this means we really need to buckle down and get the incremental changes done. Waiting for some nebulous tipping point would be useless.

  •  Great diary (7+ / 0-)

    As you point out - America has been floating on a sea of debt for a long time now.

    And its not just the bankers & war profiteers, its almost EVERYBODY on every economic level.

    As I like to put it, this debt has created a musical chairs type situation. The music slowed down once - at which point the bankers & war profiteers were bailed out and left with an unfair amount of chairs - leaving less for everybody else.

    People are still living on debt - but at some point the music is probably going to stop and at that point the REAL hurt will begin.

    Perhaps it already HAS stopped - history will be the judge.

    But I think THAT is when a real tipping point will happen, when savings run dry, there IS no more money left to borrow - and people realize they can no longer put food on the table for their family.

    As I see it, all the tea party business is a sign the right wing RECOGNIZES the potential tipping-pointy-nes of these times - and has set up this RW extremist mechanism set up and ready to go by which they can manipulate public anger TOWARDS reactionary ends and AWAY from revolutionary type of anger that would target THEM

    •  Yep. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tonyahky, Badabing

      Bingo:

      As I see it, all the tea party business is a sign the right wing RECOGNIZES the potential tipping-pointy-nes of these times - and has set up this RW extremist mechanism set up and ready to go by which they can manipulate public anger TOWARDS reactionary ends and AWAY from revolutionary type of anger that would target THEM

      This is part.

      So the question becomes: how can we fuck with their mechanics? Trigger a backfire?

  •  If you just increase the temperature of the (5+ / 0-)

    water in the pot slowly and steadily enough, you can boil the frog and the little fucker will NEVER notice.

    I know how the Viet Nam War ended - protest after protest after protest, 6+ years of marching and banging heads, four dead in O-HI-O! and elsewhere, and Richard Nixon's CREEP-fuckers plus Dr. Strangelove-cum-Mengele flapping the original "Mission Accomplished" rag.  THAT was one costly motherfucking "tipping point."  

    And here we are right back at - the Amerikan blitzkrieg all over again, with Afghanistan as Viet Nam and Pakistan co-starring as Cambodia and Laos. Wait till the My Lai reports start coming in, from both theatres.  There've been little rumblings here and there, but more of that shit is going to start gurgling out like the oil into the Gulf.

    It's war - legalized, indiscriminate, savage, brutal murder, and perpetrated on people who barely live in the 12th century (and yet they've managed to keep us fucking around for some nine years now and counting - how does THAT work?)  

    But don't let any of this permeate your delicate little conscience: Anderson and Rachel and {{{Keith}}} will provide wonderful vignettes of "Potemkin Village" successes with just the right amount of "serious questions" and "issues" to maintain a veneer of journalistic integrity ("oh, look! a dog turd under Gen. Petraeus' cot!  the transition may be going a bit slower than first reported!")

    But, hey, this is the 4th of July - time to eat a bunch of fattening food and celebrate Amerikan gluttony at it finest - the Annual Nathan's Who-Can-Eat-the-Most-Hotdogs Contest.  Perfect metaphor.  Wonder how that plays on Al Jazeera TV?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot."

    by dendron gnostic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:50:06 PM PDT

    •  i hate this (0+ / 0-)

      saying:

      If you just increase the temperature of the (1+ / 0-)

      water in the pot slowly and steadily enough, you can boil the frog and the little fucker will NEVER notice.

      poor frog.
      what's with all the animals dying quotes.
      kill 2 bird with one stone.
      beat a dead horse.
      and....
      okay i'm stuck.

      anyway.
      that was some post
      you said:
      creepfuckers.
      mengele.
      strangelove
      blitzkrieg
      AmeriKa
      and fat asses eating hot dogs.
      all in one short post.
      wow.

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:08:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  well done...you got it all the way, thanks..eom. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dendron gnostic

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:26:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds like it's time for some community organiz (6+ / 0-)

    ing, Babading.

    Find your own voice--the personal is political.

    by In her own Voice on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 09:59:53 PM PDT

  •  Back during the Health Care Debate concerning (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon, tonyahky, papicek

    Single Payer and then Public Option I wrote a few comments about the fact that with-in a 150 miles of DC why couldn't the Progressives and Liberals have had several Million People Marches an the reason I picked the 150 miles was the fact that many time I would decide around 10 in the morning to drive to relatives who lived that far away and visit for a few hours and still be back by home by 10 that night.But no Huge Marches happened by The Progressives just the Rightwingnuts and the TeaBaggers holding their Smoke&Mirrors "marches" but give them credit they were marching.

  •  Yes, what will it take for the American (6+ / 0-)

    people to come to grips with reality? For them to realized that we are all utterly, completely fucked if we don't bring the predations of the rich to a halt? The only way to make Congress work for the people is if we put their fucking balls in vise and squeeze hard enough to counteract the orgasms the elite's money has been giving them.

    But will the people do what needs to be done? Will they continue to lay down and take their beatings when they have to literally watch their children starve to death? When the bodies of the old and sick litter the roadsides because the wealthy have stolen all of the money for social security and Medicare?

    The oligarchy will not stop until they have acquired everything--every scrap of land, every natural resource, the last molecule of air--and the enslavement of the rest of humankind.

  •  Bernanke and Geithner Saved Wall Street (5+ / 0-)

    and said fu\ck up to the country.

    New improved bipartisanship! Now comes in a convenient suppository!!! -unbozo

    by Unbozo on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:14:17 PM PDT

  •  Sucka (6+ / 0-)

    You don't get it.  Protesting doesn't mean shit.  People rose up and organized to elect Obama to fix the shit. His election was a fucking protest against what you rightly point out.

    And yet we get the same as you rightly point out. People used the power of the ballot as their method of protest.  And yet we get what you pointed out.

    Here on dailykos, you do get protests.  Protests for the same shit day after day defending the failure of what
    Chris Hedges would call the liberal elites.  

    Here in Portland Oregon we had some of the largest anti-war rallies, and yet the man we helped elect continues the fucking wars.

    I will admit, I don't know the answer.  But people did scream and yell, and nothing of worth happened.  

    •  Obama's election (5+ / 0-)

      wasn't an uprising, and voting for Obama wasn't protest.  See, I think this has a lot to do with why we haven't reached that tipping point: there are far too many people who perform the basic, minimal responsibilities that should be expected of any citizen in a properly functioning democracy, and who in doing so think that they've done something radical or extraordinary.  On the contrary, voting is the very least that we should be doing as engaged citizens, and by itself it's a poor substitute for genuine dissent and direct action.  All those online petitions that people here sign, the polls that they freep, this is all just empty, meaningless busywork; and it accomplishes absolutely nothing but to give people the false impression that they've done something meaningful.  The anti-war rallies, with their papier-mache statues and "Free Mumia" signs, are at least a step in the right direction, but really they're little more than badly executed street theater being performed by a bunch of attention whores.  What we need is real, honest-to-Zeus direct action, that disrupts the normal flow of business in this country.  The sit-ins at Woolworth's back in the 60's were successful not because they got people's attention, but because they made businessmen squirm.  This is the kind of direct action we need today, but the problem is that people nowadays are too lazy to motivate themselves to take action, too self-absorbed to do anything that doesn't feed their narcissism, and too timid to stick their necks out.  This is the kind of cultural rot that destroyed the Roman Empire, and now it's destroying our empire too.

  •  Great to see you and Bill Black back (11+ / 0-)

    It's amazing to see Wall Street worhsippingh bloggers try to defame him as if they prosecuted the Keating Five for defrauding us for billions which we are still paying for. they all think they are going to be hedge fund manager someday:

    So don't talk about daddy that way! he's a wizard! He's a genius. Da system works! It's not twue! Black is a liar!

    William K. Black is right whether PCA still applies technically or not as it did in his day with S&L's it should, and if any Wall Street apologist kossacks want to doubt that, they must admit they don't care about solvent banks or people's savings and retirement.

    Great article by Dean Baker, author of the definitive paper on the Housing bubble.

    They are coming after our SS with thundeirng applause and excuses by those here who don't have any principles and would rather watch half the elderly population die and demand sink because of gutting SS. The politics of personality is ugly and offensive like the many cheerleaders here who refuse to wake up and are spiteful about it. It's nothing I respect at all and it's all BS.

    We are sliding back down the mountain.

    Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

    by priceman on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:24:51 PM PDT

  •  We've been co-opted... (9+ / 0-)

    ...not only by ever-rightward rhetoric and policies that would have been unthinkable a decade or two ago, but also by the Democratic Party.

    When predetermined-outcome groups like H-CAN are formed to suck the press oxygen out of groups like Healthcare-NOW, when "summits" and "townhalls" are stagecrafted to present a narrow band of faux-popular opinion (which opinion always ends up syncing with and favoring the oligarchy), when a powerful former union leader comes out in favor of privatizing social security accounts (exceeding even Bush's wildest dreams), and self-ID'd Democrats are outraged, outraged! that someone dare mention the futility of the war in Afghanistan, what the hell is your average DFH to do?

  •  Why France has portests and the U.S. doesn't? (10+ / 0-)

    I can think of several reasons off the top of my head.

    1. The average Frenchman is better informed and educated politically than the average American. The French actually care about politics where as most Americans dislike thinki9ng about politics/
    1. The majority of the French have a strong cultural identity (I'm tempted to say tribal) where Americans as group nolonger have a group identity. American identity has broken down to regional and ethic identities that weakens that sense of a common bond.
    1. The French haven't bought into (at least not completely) into the neo-liberal bullshit that the american public has.

    The closest thing to what you are talking about is the Tea Party qand they just don't get it.

    New improved bipartisanship! Now comes in a convenient suppository!!! -unbozo

    by Unbozo on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:38:38 PM PDT

    •  I agree, particularly with point number 2. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, Unbozo, Badabing

      I've been living in Norway for the last several years, and was in France for the last several days.  
      Norwegians don't see each other as the enemy.  They truly identify their self-interest with that of their neighbor.  They pay their taxes and get a lot in return, and the standard of living is pretty good regardless of your income level.  
      The French also have that common identity, although there is a greater disparity in living standards.  They don't just harp on "freedom" and buy a gun, but stand on liberté, égalité, fraternité and march in the streets.
      The powerful have always used perceived differences between people to gain leverage over them.  The corporations have become extremely adept at manipulating human beings, particularly in America, and I'm afraid I don't have much hope of that changing soon.

      "I almost died for the international monetary system; what the hell is that?" ~ The In-laws

      by Andhakari on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:00:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So many in France have nothing to do but riot (0+ / 0-)

      Most under 30 do not work and they retire when they are 50. Even when they do work, it is only for about 1/2 the year.

      So, they have tons of free time but no money to go anywhere or do anything... and whole families are stuck in these tiny closet-sized apartments -- the whole country is a powder keg waiting for any excuse to take to the streets.

      Most Americans have less free time for protests or rioting.

    •  And they have social safety nets (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing, Words In Action

      Here, few people will take a day, much less a week, off from work because they're one paycheck away from financial disaster and there's a line of people who want their job.

      Unemployment benefits and healthcare benefits give the French the freedom to protest.  We are slaves.

      "The Universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

      by Mosquito Pilot on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:10:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's not that we don't care we just feel powerles (6+ / 0-)

    I talked to people at work today and my friends who are all more intelligent and aware people and the general feeling is "It's horrible but what the hell can we do about it? "

    How do you protest a corporation? What is the point of protesting when it gets no coverage?

    If a protest turns violent the protesters are marginalized as violent, liberal fanatics and nothing gets accomplished.

    No one here on Dkos has come up with a way to take power from the corps and they are the ones with the power. They give a shit about protests, people dying in the streets etc. Unless you make their bottom line hurt they don't care, and even then they will make cosmetic changes but then turn around and do dirty work in the background.

    We care, we just don't know how to fix it.

    •  It's actually pretty easy, (4+ / 0-)

      and during the Iraq war and immigration protests, I wondered why people didn't think of it: protest outside TV stations. Why are people parading through town when newscasters have a choice whether or not to broadcast the crowds. Why not start standing/marching/camping out in large numbers around the closest local affiliate of FOX?

      If nothing is very different from you, what is a little different from you is very different from you. Ursula K. Le Guin

      by northsylvania on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:17:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There used to be 'culture' in counter-culture (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    musicalhair, Badabing

    Where is the anti-war music? What happened to the peace movement's ability to inspire people?

    OK here's my latest little cultural addition, although it's just a montage I think it says something about the sabotage the ruling class, esp. Republicans, have committed on America.

  •  Part of the problem is (7+ / 0-)

    that our news media no longer fills its role as the "fourth estate": for example, until I saw Fahrenheit 9/11, I didn't know about the mass protests against the Repub SCOTUS awarding Bush the presidency in 2000, I didn't know about the tens of thousands of people protesting in DC on his unearned inauguration day, etc.

    The reporters and film crews and print technicians and so on would also have to rise up and risk their jobs to push the news out despite their corporate masters. The broadcast switches would have to be guarded against the oligarchs' thugs who would turn off the satellites and antennas and dishes.

    The only way around this hideous undemocratic heist of information might be (for the moment) the internet and maybe low-level social media (twitter).

    Today's the Fourth. In 10 days it will be Bastille Day here in France. Perhaps Progressives (in particular) will take a leaf from "old Europe"... before the tea partiers do so in earnest.

  •  Your numbers are way off. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chaboard, papicek, CS in AZ
    The first two articles you cite regarding the cost of the bailout are over a year old. The current estimate of the cost of the bailout is more like $85 billion -- still a chunk of change, but about 1% of the numbers you're throwing around.

    "Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such a one as thyself." Psalms 50:21 h/t R. Browning

    by seanwright on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:37:37 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, And That Was The "Tipping Point" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      seanwright

      for the diary's credibility, in my opinion.

    •  Thanks for pushing me to read the link (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      seanwright

      You are right. In the article is doomsaying about how there is no "guarantee" that the government will get any of the money back (so he assumes that none of it will ever be repaid).

      Well, we now know that they have gotten a large chunk of it back already and I remember reading not too long ago that in some areas the taxpayers even made money on the deal, and it has happened more quickly than anyone even anticipated. That link is an outdated panic-post about the worst-case potential (at that time) cost of the bailout, which in hindsight turned out to be wrong and overly pessimistic.

      Thank you for pointing this out... I admit I was lazy when I skimmed through this diary the first time, but bells did ring in the back of my mind at those numbers, because I know I've heard since then that most of the money has been recovered.

      And it doesn't even say what all they are counting as "bailouts" ... as it concludes the list with "... and others" -- hum. Perhaps it includes the bailouts of the auto industry too? So if you consider what the cost would have been of not doing that, the auto companies and the whole thing, in terms of the massive layoffs,  jobs lost, 401k retirement savings of millions of people, lost, businesses going under everywhere because of the credit freeze, etc. if they did nothing, well...really it does not address in any way the cost of inaction, which I think would have been far more expensive and we would not be getting any of that back in our lifetimes, had they let the system collapse.

      •  LOL...too funny, really you guys are so full of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        papicek, nippersdad, ohmyheck

        it....the Federal Reserve and Bernanke are selling Junk Bonds now, and they Maiden Lane accounts are still off the books....amazing...yeah..

        I'm just making shit up...that's my MO....

        LMAO...

        ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

        by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:27:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  they've retrieved a good amount... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing

        of the TARP. The 13 special lending facilities are another matter, as are the capital injections. Those are separate from TARP. For example, we paid way too much for the Citigroup shares we bought. And Citigroup repaid us by issuing new shares and diluting the value of our holding. Our stakes in GM are similarly nearly worthless. I just checked. The last trade on GM stock (which we own a bunch of) was 75 cents. AIG share price is now about $33. That's actually almost double from it's position in December 2008, but it once stood at $1453. When the US bought a majority chunk of AIG, the share price dropped to $77.

        It would have been worse had nothing been done, but was the right thing done? I really doubt it. It caught almost everyone by surprise.

        What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

        by papicek on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:58:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  400,000 people in Michigan are (9+ / 0-)

    about to lose their jobless benefits. That's more than half the number of Jobless people in Michigan.

    It's going to be disastrous.

    Month by month. (Hope to see you on Twitter)

    by Muskegon Critic on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:46:07 PM PDT

  •  Everyone is waiting for the next thrilling (4+ / 0-)

    episode of this not-to-be-missed TV extravaganza.

    We spend our lives either at work or viewing things that are either not real or at least not relevant to our existence.  When viewing fiction, you may think and feel in response to what you see, you may even talk to your neighbor about it, but you do not take action of any kind.  

    This sets up a habit.  When faced with reality, you react in a similar manner.  

    This doesn't explain all of it, but it probably explains some of it.  

    They see me trollin'. They hatin' I find it hilarious that people think legality has anything to do with right and wrong.

    by obnoxiotheclown on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:47:10 PM PDT

    •  Agree, We have been trained (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      by watching so much drama via tv and movies, that everyone thinks everything can be fixed and all will end well.  People search for drama when life is humming along on regularity.  Some create their own, some look again to the tv to provide.  Hence our drama-news programs.  The phoniness of our existance is killing us.  Just my 2 cents.

      •  The fact that stories even end makes them untrue. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        It leads us to see events as separate things in sequence when our experience is a seamless whole (aside from birth and death, of course.)

        Someone smarter than me could probably turn that idea into a very interesting and useful book.

        They see me trollin'. They hatin' I find it hilarious that people think legality has anything to do with right and wrong.

        by obnoxiotheclown on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:06:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Tipping points (3+ / 0-)

    I think there's all sorts of them.  And mostly you only recognize them with hindsight.  I know there's a tipping point associated with the melting of Arctic Ice/loss of albedo, a change in thermal patterns with no known way to do anything about it.  Dunno if we've already passed it.  It might have already happened.  (Might not.  Dunno.)

    I tend to think that fundamental change is more likely after some hellacious crashes.  (Epidemic disease, environmental collapse, "unknown unknowns" - whatever.)  More rebuilding from the ashes kinda thing than reform "adjustments."

    I could be wrong.  But that's what I think.

    You cannot save the Gulf. But you can make its death mean something. -- Crashing Vor

    by Land of Enchantment on Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 11:49:24 PM PDT

  •  as Paul Loeb points out in Soul Of A Citizen (4+ / 0-)

    we live in a culture that promotes the idea that "you can't fight city hall" and that people who try are crazy extremists.  I think people are beginning to wake up and see what a lie that is and are finding the courage inside themselves to act, but as insane as things are now, I can't believe there aren't even more coming on board.  But even then, most people would rather work via internet groups and petitions than march in the streets, especially on local/regional issues.  As scary as some people have gotten on the other side, I can't say that I entirely blame them.  

  •  Thank you (5+ / 0-)

    Thank you for pointing out the necessity for even greater efforts to counter the dolorous trends facing this nation. It seems to me unfortunate that so many of the comments seem to argue for despair and inaction when that would only lead to a Republican victory in November. I remember hearing the same complaints about the Democrats levelled by progressives in the 60's and it brought us Nixon instead of Humphrey, the 70's that gave us Reagan instead of Carter, the 90's that gave us Bush and not Gore and now I am hearing it again.

    The argument was always "Things will get so bad, we will eventually elect true progressives". In never happens, progressivism wins by the hard work of campaigning and winning elections.

    In defense of liberty, despair is not an option.

    There is no such thing as a public official that will always do what we wish without us, all of us, demonstrating our political power every day and in every election.

    We need to recall that, Franklin Roosevelt when urged to support the creation of Social Security responded, "Make me". That was a call to arms and it worked.

    •  Despair is a luxury now and the coward's way out. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ohmyheck

      The Cat Food Commission, is going to have us all eating Cat Food...

      Got it people:

      You want to wait until that happens...wait...blame the media...say that marches don't work, then look back on your history and repeat after me:

      Without thousands of marches, ending the Vietnam War and the eventual success of the Civil Rights Movement would never have happened.

      We can blog until we are blue in the face, we can give our money to 'better Democrats' who are overwhelmed by a broken system that 'buys their votes' day in and day out, or we can 'grow a movement' for real change...in our nation.

      That is how change has always occurred in our national history...people show up and suit up, and they stand hand and hand, no matter how long it takes, until they can no longer be ignored.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:35:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tipping point vs The Revolution? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    I always thought The Revolution was an ironic political simile for a Leftist deus ex machina while the Tipping Point referred to the theoretical moment when anthropogenic climate change resulted in a rapid regime shifts to another macro-systemic equilibrium (example).

    --- Perma-ban or bust. - opendna

    by opendna on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:17:42 AM PDT

  •  The Solution (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    Is not marching, it's coming together on the same internet sight which raises awareness of the legal tool left to us by the Framer's--the convention clause of Article V.

    When the people in Congress for one reason or another stop working for our future and safety, you call a convention, so delegates build consensus about what non-partisan ways we can get out of the mess we're in.

    If you're not here as an operative, and authentic, then sign up: http://www.convusa.com

    We get a million Americans signed up as delegates, we will re-direct the course.

    •  So how is that working for you? (0+ / 0-)

      When the people in Congress for one reason or another stop working for our future and safety, you call a convention, so delegates build consensus about what non-partisan ways we can get out of the mess we're in.

      Any progress to date?  

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:52:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, there is progress (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        soccergrandmom, Badabing

        More people are considering the idea. The stereotype of the spineless liberal how doesn't know what's in their best interest seems to obtain. But based on what you say here, tell me you're not so dense that you don't understand it's going to take more than just liberals to change the way thigns are, but both the left and right together against Congress. That's what a convention is, and if you were sincere, and authentic, and diaries are free, I'd think you write one calling for it.

        People around here know I've been on about it for awhile. If and when someone else joins in, and then someone else--well that's how it starts.

        I could be wrong, but I get the sense most here are simply paid shills who offer lip service, tell us how bad things are, and then blame the victim for not doing anything about it.

  •  This diary and thread is not my (0+ / 0-)

    circle to square.  It's the old Left's.

    America always has been a strongly  commercial federal republic.  Sorry many here have not seemed to figure that out.

    •  a strongly commercial federal republic (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing, kfd313

      In other words, America is a domination society.  To some degree, that describes most societies including the ones that emanated from Marxism.

      Economic systems are not similar to the laws of physics.  There are no immutable laws of economics;  economics is a human invention. Therefore, the economic system doesn't have to continue along the same lines irrespective of it's history. Indeed, economic systems have evolved over time.

      Understanding cultural history is an important step.  It's only one step in true change.  Right now our politicians are bogged down in a circular debate about government versus business. The answer does not lie in resolving that debate.  It lies in changing our values to those that nurture human life and nature rather than placing high value on warfare, wealth and the exploitation of nature.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:38:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  People don't revolt when things are bad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    forester

    When things are too bad people are too concerned with food, shelter, clothing, to rebel.

    The rebellions come when things get a little better; when people believe that it will be effective.

    Read your Tilly.

    If you aren't outraged, you are an idiot

    by indefinitelee on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:54:25 AM PDT

  •  I'm sorry to say it... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, Words In Action, marsanges

    but we've passed the point of 'put up or shut up' and every second we waste shutting up, is another second our children and grand children are going to have to pay for.

    Greetings from the fake America!

    by frangstration on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:56:51 AM PDT

  •  Marching.... (6+ / 0-)

    You could take this one step further.  We have allowed ourselves to be so 'independent' that our mass transit ranges from crappy to nonexistent.  Outside of major metro areas, the car is still king.  Those of us without one are severely limited in our choices.

    In any country in Europe, one can get on a train and go anywhere is a few hours.  Granted, France is geographically much smaller than the U.S., but their transportation is such that they can easily get to their capital.  Here, it takes a substantial investment of both time and money to get anywhere.  Many of those who are most negatively affected by all of this chaos don't have the means to travel to their state capital, let alone to D.C.

    I won't posit any CT about limiting mobility to avoid accountability to the voters, but the result is the same: we just can't get there.  Heck, even if I could get a ride, I don't have enough to be able to eat or stay anywhere along the way.  They've got us by the short hairs, folks, and our situation isn't going to improve without some drastic change in circumstances.  

    I'm close enough to retirement that I'm hoping I can get enough to survive.  I'm not counting on it, though.  The way things are going, it's seems wiser to pray for an early death than for an old age that will just hold more of the misery I'm living now.  This is no way to live....

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:03:53 AM PDT

  •  The last days of Rome (5+ / 0-)

    That's how you know an empire is doomed - when the citizenry themselves are too debauched, jaded or immobile to react to the crisis. We are comfortable in our discomfort, because there is no immediacy to it. We have isolated our wars from the personal suffering of the majority of Americans (and let it ride on the backs of our professional soldiers and their families). We have credit to give us the artificial sense of wealth and ownership. We have myriad opiates - reality tv, brands and yes the Internet to dilute our anger and our energy.

    The crisis IS immediate - just not immediate enough yet. I don't doubt there will one day (and maybe one day soon) be an actual reaction outside of heated arguments on the web. I just have grave concerns that the action won't be coming from the people who can AFFORD to have access to the web and a computer to do so on. We may not have a tipping point but there are people that will. I'm just very scared about what their ideas may be and what means they will use to enact them. Anyone here ever read "The Handmaid's Tale"?

    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

    by Grassee on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:08:32 AM PDT

    •  Most Americans are one paycheck from disaster (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      puzzled, Badabing

      In France, they have a safety net for unemployment and health that makes them free to protest.  Here, we're slaves.  One paycheck from disaster.  
      What? Their socialism makes them free?

      "The Universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

      by Mosquito Pilot on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:06:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  anyone who still has a job (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, Nancy on Lake Michigan

        is terrified of losing it.  We've sold our souls to the corporate company store, and for what?  For health insurance.  As long as health insurance is tied to employment, people will be afraid to piss off their corporate masters, lest they be thrown to the wolves of Blue Cross, Humana and the rest.

        There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.

        by puzzled on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:06:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's a sliding scale (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Karen Wehrstein, Badabing

      It's not like you have the Empire one day and you don't the next day.  It won't happen that way.  The way things change is to evolution toward a society that emphasizes partnership or one that emphasizes even more domination.

      Surprisingly, human societies were not always based on domination.  There was a long period where you observe very little warfare and women were treated about equally with men.  The Minoan society that preceded the Greek society of Plato, etc. is one example.  The Minoans were peaceful and women had equal rights.  The Greeks on the other hand were  warlike, women were second class and they had slavery!  Clearly, a seismic cultural shift occurred.  Cultural historians believe this shift was triggered by climate change that created the deserts in Africa and the Middle East.  Nomadic people came into conflict with people in more livable areas thus starting a 5000 year period of societies based on domination - characterized by warfare, devaluation of  the work that women stereotypically do - caring and care giving.

      Bottom line, there is no society that is entirely domination based or that is entirely partnership based.  It's a sliding scale.

      I suggest that everyone learn more about cultural history and how economics evolve.  Read Real Wealth of Nations by Rianne Eisler.  I was amazed by what I learned.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:59:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A very righteous rant (5+ / 0-)

    But not as strong as these circumstances require. In the late 60s and 70s we vigorously protested the Vietnam war. Current apologists to the present deadbrain era claim that it is the lack of a draft. I strongly disagree. The lack of interest and response to the economic debacle is proof of the general nature of our society today, totally divorced from the concept of righteous indignation. We have the most passive population that I have seen in my lifetime. We were motivated to protest in the 60s because we felt that segregation was wrong and that the Vietnam war was wrong. We had a clear sense of moral outrage and we felt that we had to express this in protest.

    I agree strongly with Badabing. I don't think that there is any event that would generate protest in the street of any significant size. We have two immoral wars, a payoff to fraud, and massive disparity of wealth, a failing economy, and an unequaled environmental catastrophe and no response from the population. None. Do we have any historians in this community that can compare this to any other similar periods in other societies?

  •  half of us don't know what the fuck (0+ / 0-)

    and the rest do0n't know mfro on a waffer.  don't mean to be harsh, sometimes i say wrong stuff.  

  •  Long as checkwriting is considered "contribution" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing

    We're playing their game...

  •  Did you see America's Got Talent last night? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, Rustbelt Dem

    In France they've got a security net for unemployment and health that gives them the freedom to protest.

    We are slaves, one paycheck away from disaster.

    Did you see America's Got Talent last night?

    "The Universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius

    by Mosquito Pilot on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:03:32 AM PDT

  •  Believe me, there will be a tipping point, and it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JuliaAnn, Badabing, Rustbelt Dem

    will probably resemble something more like the French Revolution than it will a march on Washington.

    Trying to predict when it will happen though is just like trying to predict when things like the housing bubble will burst.

    You can't predict when but you can predict that it will happen, and when it does, once again there will be Royal Blood in the streets.

    We could be in for  a Long, Hot Summer.

  •  Change the culture (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, papicek

    Tipping points, ie mass revolutions, rarely happen.  They occur when conditions are unlivable and there's little to risk by fighting back.  The more typical way of changing society is to change the culture.  A culture that places more value on wealth than on caring is bound to have many more "Great Heists"!

    The way you change the culture is to advocate for those things that have high human value - health care, education, etc...

    "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

    by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:46:45 AM PDT

  •  Reality is made on TV (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nippersdad

    You, my friend, are a conspiracy theorist!  You are espousing claims that have not been uttered on TV, the New York Times or in a left leaning best-seller!  This is a reality-based community, and if such claims can't be sourced to such authentic sources, they're simply products of a paranoid mind!

  •  Great Eye Opener For The 4th! (5+ / 0-)

    Thanks for taking the time to try to make people care.

  •  "blaming the media" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JuliaAnn, nippersdad, Valatius

    I've seen that a couple times throughout these comments -- don't "blame the media."

    Stories are powerful and can motivate. The media does the majority of story-telling in this country -- they turn a bunch of racists hanging teabags over their ears into a "movement." They ignore hundreds of thousands of Iraq war protesters and those protesters suddenly don't exist or are understood to be unimportant.

    Don't blame the media, but don't underestimate its power either. It is a big factor in what has happened in this country over the past 30 years.

    •  I'm not underestimating the media...I am trying (0+ / 0-)

      to help all of us, as Progressive Democrats to remember where we came from - we were once called - the Working Man's/Woman's party, and our leaders have failed us, as has our two party system.  Our jobs are gone, our manufacturing base is gone, we have nothing left, because Wall Street/the Banks completely devastated our economy and got paid off for doing so.  We are facing higher and higher Health Care Costs, thanks to the bullshit 'reform' that was nothing more than a payoff, with a bone thrown our way, we are fighting endless wars, and now the Cat Food Commission is coming after our final safety net.....

      Our moral failure as a party, as a people, as a nation, has been that we forgot where we came from, and how our ancestors got there...they had to fight tooth and nail, for every single cent they could get, for dignity and a decent wage.  Nothing has changed, except that 'we' the people have changed.

      We stopped fighting, we stopped marching, we blame everyone but ourselves, and I'm sick of that kind of 'constant pity party' that goes on.  We want change?  Then we have got to re-group, re-organize, go back to what worked in the past, and to hell with the media.

      There is strength in unity and numbers, and yes, it takes guts and courage to show up, and stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow man/woman, staring down those on Capitol Hill who are living in the lap of luxury, selling our nation to the highest bidder.  

      Movements do not happen overnight, they happen one person at a time, who inspires another to have the courage, to believe in ourselves once again.  That is what we forgot, and we can blog all we want to, and elect 'better Democrats' but so far, that has gotten us nothing but bullshit, and Blue Dogs (who pretend to be real Democrats) and Presidents, like Bill Clinton who sold us down the river with NAFTA and Deregulaton.   I hate the Republicans, but I'll be damned if I'm going to lay down and just take it, while the Cat Food Commission come after our final safety net to fund the endless wars.

      The Military Industrial Complex, the Corporations, and Wall Street/the Banks OWN US LOCK STOCK AND BARREL and they own our government and our Congress.  That is where we are at now, but NOT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORY.  

      We the people are 'bigger than the media'...we just gave up, and forgot what worked before.  We can stay in our big shit pile of 'excuses' and endless 'pity party' or we can suit up and show up.  That is how I see it, because from where I'm standing President Obama is not the 'Candidate Obama' I voted for.............he is far, far from that person, who disappeared the second day he was sworn in.

      We have the courage to do what our party once did, we just forgot how to do it, and our fear is overwhelming us, and that is a luxury we cannot afford and is the coward's way out.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:13:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Best Diary of 2010. Seriously. (7+ / 0-)

     thank you!

    ever since happiness heard your name it has been running through the streets trying to find you

    by el vasco on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:34:45 AM PDT

    •  I can't think of another diary... (4+ / 0-)

      which states the shape we're in any clearer than this. And our own democrats are complicit.

      I don't know how high up this goes, but the hot potato is being passed around and we're not supposed notice?

      What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

      by papicek on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:12:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Revolving villains and revolving (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, Words In Action

        guys in white hats. Feingold voting for HCR and standing firm against FinReg (thus far)? We have seen this so many times that a betting pool may be in order.

        Maybe we should get Goldman Sachs' computer program to determine the rotation?

        A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

        by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:34:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's Not Terrorism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nippersdad

    the endless BP Oil spill continues to perpetuate ecological and financial terrorism

    Terrorism is the practice of using fear, typically fear of violence, to create political changes. Terrorism is a kind of warfare designed to create political change that gives its practitioners more power.

    The BP Gulf rupture was not designed to create political changes. It might be exploited to do so, but only within the narrow context of the reregulation now possible after the catastrophe. But not every fearsome event that is exploited for political gain is terrorism: the event itself was an accident, however inevitable and guilty it might have been.

    There's plenty of actual terrorism. Let's not surrender to fear's power over us by giving every fear the political power that comes with terrorism. Let's deal with some fears on grounds that are not quite as intimidating.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:51:58 AM PDT

    •  no, it's class warfare... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DocGonzo, Badabing

      and we're having our heads handed to us.

      What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

      by papicek on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:12:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kinda (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        papicek, nippersdad

        The rupture itself, and its spewing, is not class warfare. The negligence that caused it and the privileged immunity from consequences is part of class warfare that exploits the public for profit while dumping liabilities back on the public. The half-assed response likewise.

        But the actual catastrophe itself was not really class warfare. The catastrophe was an accident - even though inevitable and enabled by the class warfare. It's collateral damage from the actual warfare. So while it's kinda class warfare, just as killing civilians in real warfare is also warfare, it's not the same as the direct class warfare that enables and protects the collateral damage.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:25:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  accident? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing

          I'm not so sure. Can anyone tell me exactly why Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke chose that particular day to get congressional leadership together and tell them that if they didn't act, we'd have "no economy on Monday?"

          How did Hank Paulson know?

          And yes, it was, and still is, class warfare. The mindset of the Rick Santelli's of the world, where everyone who borrowed to buy or improve their home but can't now make the payments are now "losers" (his exact word), who believe that people supposedly know know what to do with money should be free to take as much of it as they can, and devil take the rest . . . .

          That most certainly is class warfare.

          What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

          by papicek on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:49:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  so you survived, doc (0+ / 0-)

          last seen boarding an airplane at the Las Vegas airport (at least that's what we saw last night).

          That comment that HST made about nothing intelligent waiting at the end of the tunnel really cracked me up.

          Also the observation about the high water mark.

          There is no turning point now, because advanced rot within makes collapse of the present paradigm inevitable.  This is actually a good thing.  Instead of trying to turn it around, either work for hastening the demise or start laying the foundation for what will replace it.  

          A healthy dose of dada is definitely in order.      

          •  Loss of Sanity (0+ / 0-)

            This is the Telecom Age. Our frame of reference is jittering to keep old misrepresentations tuned, while new signals force a resync. The Leary hierarchy ("true communication only between peers") is stressed with such inequality in the range of transmitters and decoders among the many receivers that encoding sanity loss is well underway.

            Here's to signal in your noise.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 04:02:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Everyone knows this. But (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, papicek

    no one knows how we can fix it.  We feel powerless to fix it, in light of what the Roberts Court did in Citizens United.  You have media companies, oil companies, banks all fighting tooth and nail against the best interests of the American people.  And under the guise of "free speech," corporations are funding liars in Congress who go on enabling the liars.

    We know this to be true.  Confidence in government and in major institutions is at an all time low.  Confidence in business is low.  No one knows how to fix it.  We hoped Obama could and he can't seem to be able to get enough people in Congress to fix what's broken.

    The tipping point happened long ago.

    Now the question is how to rebuild.

    Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

    by Benintn on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:15:57 AM PDT

    •  Thoughts on your questions (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      Now the question is how to rebuild.

      Give the Real Wealth of Nations by Rianne Eisler a read.  I believe she not only diagnoses why we are in the current state of affairs but how we can "rebuild" (to use your word). I think it's a way to get started.

      What can we do specifically?  Create local organizations that fight for values that promote caring and care giving.

      There is also an answer to this comment:

      We know this to be true.  Confidence in government and in major institutions is at an all time low.  Confidence in business is low.  No one knows how to fix it.  We hoped Obama could and he can't seem to be able to get enough people in Congress to fix what's broken.

      The answer does not reside entirely within government (though government can help) nor does it reside in business.  The answer resides to a large extent within all of us and the values we fight for.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:27:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stop the endless wars (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, papicek, miss SPED

    What you said!  What you said!

    You are so close to perceiving the truth! Examine all of your points.  This is what our society currently values:

    1. Warfare
    1. Wealth
    1. Pillaging the ecology

    Bing! Bing! Bing!

    What have you described?  A society whose culture values domination.  All three of the above describe domination.

    Warfare - obviously the domination of one set of people over another
    Wealth - domination of one class over another
    Pillaging the ecology - domination over nature

    What we need is a cultural shift toward a system of partnership. We do that by valuing that which nurtures human life.

    Protest?  Just tell me when!  I think it's a good vehicle. But it's not an end on to itself.  You need to clearly define the values that you are fighting for as well.

    "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

    by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:16:46 AM PDT

    •  Hmmmm (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      What we need is a cultural shift toward a system of partnership. We do that by valuing that which nurtures human life.

      There, fixed it.

      Good comment!

      A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

      by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:28:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a simpler way to put it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nippersdad

        Valuing life is the right way to frame it.  I have been trying to find a good way to talk about the concept of "partnerism" without being too academic:  

        http://www.opednews.com/...

        I think we all are talking about a culture of partnerism but haven't grounded the discussion in terms of a "systems theory".

        Thx.

        "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

        by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:56:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We are all in this together. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Badabing

          I have always thought that concentrating on just the human element would eventually leave us with only humans. :)

          A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

          by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:57:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The genius of social-engineering--it works! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing

    Democracy has been trumped by social-engineering and mind-control techniques. I have realized after several years of consideration and research that the political situation in this country is hopeless. There is not one shred of hope or ray of light to be seen if you look at the collective challenges we face and the general tenor of "debate" in our public media.

    Political efforts are pointless and hopeless--it's all been gamed. If the oligarchy is this adept at making "up" become "down" and "right" appear to be "left" then what is the point of political activism? I know people here love political activism and don't want to give it up and don't want to give up hope because it gives meaning to their lives. But, realistically, there is no hope. As such, the only direction we have is to go inwards and into mysticism and magic.

    •  Social activism not political activism (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing, banger

      The problem is that too many people think they can effect fundamental change through the ballot box.  It doesn't work that way.  You need to build social movements that emphasize what you value.  

      As such, the only direction we have is to go inwards and into mysticism and magic.

      Just the opposite.  You need to network with people.  Build social movements.  If you are this frustrated with standard politics, quite honestly I can't say I blame you. I suggest finding a local peace group and get involved!

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:23:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The tipping point (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinityfly, Badabing

    will never come as long as we are fighting amongst ourselves for the crumbs. Teaparty against Liberals, Pro-Choice against 'Right to Life', Christian against Muslim, Middle Class against the Poor, on and on and on it goes.  It is so bad now that even those who think they mostly agree (See DKos and even different TeaParty groups) are fighting amongst themselves.

    Those who foster that division know exactly what they are doing.

    Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will. Mark Twain

    by whoknu on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:50:13 AM PDT

  •  Amen badabing! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, nippersdad

    Thanks for saying what needed to be said.

    I'll add that here and in the "real" world, there is a lot of thinking/behaving along the line of "an abused spouse syndrome" : "I have to stick with this entity that is against my interests, because " X really is on my side and I know he'll change,,,,,,"

    I see two paths that might help us change this toxic course:

    1), left and right uniting against a corporate-dictated world. Maybe it starts with bloggers, letters to the editors pointing out how it always seems the average citizens get the short end of any deal in DC, while the wealthy just get more power.  We saw from the recent WSJ blog how average Repubs are seeing the light and turning against the GOP.

    1. Public campaign financing. Perhaps only give money to candidates who promise that this will be one of their top priorities.

    Until we the people own the politicians versus the corporations who now own them, not one damn thing will turn in our favor (sure we will get a few crumbs that we are supposed to jump for joy.

    Btw, where are you blogging at,,, I need more of your juice. Thanks.

    •  thanks roonie....I blog here at Kos... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      roonie, Eryk, on the cusp

      when I'm not burned out..lol.

      Public campaign financing. Perhaps only give money to candidates who promise that this will be one of their top priorities.

      There is an old saying: fool me once, shame on you fool me twice, shame on me.  The problem is that no matter how many 'better Democrats' we elect, once they get to Washington DC they are all in that same 'Lobbyist Merry-go-Round' where it's all about favors and fund raising.  The Senate/House are filled to the brim will Millionaires, that favor big business over the Middle Class, and I do not see that changing no matter how many 'better Democrats' we elect.

      I worked my ass off for President Obama for 6 months, because he ran on 'restoring the public trust' and uplifting the Middle Class.  

      The very reason that 'campaign financing' or reform will never come to be, is that Congress will never vote on it.  Why should they?  They have best health care in the world, the greatest 'perks,' and are virtually on the government 'tit' for life.  

      As the old saying goes, 'when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose' and that is exactly where the Middle Class of this nation have come to.  We have, indeed lost faith in our leaders/government, and for good reason.  The Oligarchy Madness continues, and as I said in my diary:  It is never enough.  They will strip us dry until we are no better than a Banana Republic, with our Seniors sleeping in card board boxes on the streets.

      It's time to stop giving them our money (which they are taking anyway along with our homes, jobs and life savings) and began Marching again, or create a National Strike.  

      B.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:12:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I recall... (5+ / 0-)

    that the anti-war protests of the 60's and 70's melted away when the draft ended (1973). A telling little factoid.

    How are your retirement savings doing? Hence the bailout, pure and simple, and they know it.

    What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

    by papicek on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 06:55:43 AM PDT

  •  Louisianans 'revere' the sea so much they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    djMikulec

    go to court to allow more deepsea drilling. Give me a break!

    The Tipping Point will come when sensible, sane and rational people realise that they are in danger of giving the ruins of the asylum back to the lunatics who burned it down in the first place.

    Nice rant, ridiculous logic.  But you amy be right, Americans apparently will take any crap handed to them on a plate as long as it comes with oil soaked french fries.

    You are right for all the wrong reasons. This nations is DOOMED, doomed, I say!

    •  We are only doomed if we choose to be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      It really does come down to that.  

      "What are you willing to do?"  implored the character Malone in The Untouchables.

      Yes indeed, what are you willing to do?

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:50:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't buy that bromide. I am doomed if you (0+ / 0-)

        choose to be. We are ALL inextricably linked and the bufflao who don't want to go over the cliff wind up being swept along.

        Would it be as simple as you indicate mass decisions are.

        Have a good parade, I certainly don't' want to rain on yours. Off to the celebrations.

  •  Protests by themselves do nothing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nippersdad

    We DFHs proved that in 2003, with the Iraq war.  The guys on top can ignore million man marches with no problemo.  You're going to have to hurt the elites; that probably means a general strike.  And I don't think Americans are there yet.  

    Moreover, some of the people still doing well are going to have to participate, just because they see no future in the present course.  And long-term thinking is not an American strongpoint.

    •  As I said, earlier: the Vietnam War and Civil (3+ / 0-)

      Rights movements and successes did not happen overnight, it involved many years of Marching and struggles.

      It is amazing how easily people are just 'giving in and giving up'...I wonder how Rosa Parks felts sitting in a lonely jail cell, or how MLK felt doing the same over and over again.  I wonder how many young men/women who fled to Canada felt during the Vietnam war felt, alone in another country, fearful that they would be found and sent to prison for life if caught.

      The new generations do not remember the kinds of sacrifices made by our ancestors, or that change, real change, takes courage, time and persistence.

      I strongly disagree with you.  Both the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights movement succeeded because of the people that marched together, over and over again.

      We have lost our way as a people, and it is time to go back to the tried and true ways of our ancestors.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:20:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There wont be protests (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, La Gitane

    because history has shown them to be ineffective (See: war in Iraq, the).

    We are in the last ditch fight to save the country, between those who are attempting to claw it back from the edge of the cliff, nanometer by agonizing nanometer, and those who would let it slip over the edge onto the rocks below.

    If we fail, we will take to the streets, though. It just won't be with protest signs.

    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

    by Whimsical on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:14:45 AM PDT

    •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

      If we fail, we will take to the streets, though. It just won't be with protest signs.

      I'm trying to get something together on Labor Day, to "visit" the top ten robber barons at their homes.  Chain ourselves to the gates of their gated communities.

      I'm willing to help organize if anyone's interested!

      "Mediocrity cannot know excellence." -- Sherlock Holmes

      by La Gitane on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:48:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  this country (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xaxado, Badabing, on the cusp, nippersdad

    this country will and IS descending into a failed 3rd world type state.

    We are the new mexico.  

    (regarding the bank mess) They want to cure the patient but not deal with the disease.

    by dark daze on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:28:33 AM PDT

  •  How can you blame people for not protesting? (0+ / 0-)

    First, we need a middle class or a specific picked upon, like the blacks or young drafted in the Vietnam war were, to give rise to real concentrated protest.  We have neither as most are now in the same boat with constant diversions and the few who might be are baited into the corporate controlled teabagger movement with their daily dose of Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity.  Perhaps the chronically unemployed... but they are weak, demoralized, hungry and increasingly homeless.

    Alas, today, those who protest in the streets risk Police State overreactions and sometimes more than a civil disobedience misdemeanor with our increasingly draconian police state laws. Oh, the privatized prison system is always looking for new customers and bribing judges to send them their way.  Then there are the picky, unforgiving and privacy intruding corporations that will not hire with even the slightest blemish on your "permanent record".  All legal, now, of course.

    So, can you blame people who still have something, even if it is being fleeced, for not protesting?

    Don't fret, though.  I think over half, maybe up to 80% of the worlds population will die off this century for a variety of reasons.  Global climate change, political upheavals, resource wars, new disease vectors, and starvation will be big factors.  That should ease the pressure.  It may also provide better opportunities for people to "bloody their pitchforks" on the hides of our self-appointed Masters of the Universe.  

    Of course, the MOTUs know this and are preparing for this even now with their walled off communities, private islands, two tier judicial system, powned politicians and paramilitary mercenaries better equipped than the actual military for hire at the right price.  There's a reason for Globalization and the New World Order, and its not for our benefit; just for the very few!  The MOTU's are concernedthat people are waking up, so there may be hope.

    Interesting, probably bloody, times to come.  

    Obama needs to channel TR+FDR: Walk Softly, Carry a Big Stick and Welcome Their Hatred. He has Walk Softly down pat. Time to get on with the rest...

    by FightTheFuture on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:30:37 AM PDT

  •  Two of my co-workers - (7+ / 0-)

    Woodstock veterans - recently made a convincing case about why the we don't take to the streets today:

    We're used to it.

    All the bullshit: the wars, the violence, torture, violation of civil liberties, looting of America's future.

    In the 60's, the revolutions started because up to the late 50's, everyone was living a so-called "Leave it to Beaver" existence. If you looked a certain way and acted a certain way, you'd be a model citizen - given a job, taken care of, raise a family, buy a middle class house. The post-war mentality. The kids growing up during the late 50's came of age during the draft for Vietnam, which created a massive contradiction to the unconscious training they'd received about how to live and how living that way created a certain type of life. This type of life did not include killing innocents in war.

    The contracdiction rippled across culture.

    What we have now is cruelty instilled in culture, we have violent me-first "capitalism" instilled in culture and we have murderous ecological plundering instilled in culture. All because we're clever little humans and will come up with clever, technological ways to solve ecological problems of our own technological creation. Sisyphus: reborn.

    No recent events are "tipping points" because none of those events are sufficiently more apalling than what we're currently used to as a society. They're bad, but not that bad.

    •  I think your friends have (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, jamesia, Badabing

      have some very good points. Thanks for making them here. The slippery slope is real and we are sliding faster every day.

      Wheee!

      A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

      by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:21:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The problem IS the culture (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, jamesia, Badabing

      What we have now is cruelty instilled in culture, we have violent me-first "capitalism" instilled in culture and we have murderous ecological plundering instilled in culture. All because we're clever little humans and will come up with clever, technological ways to solve ecological problems of our own technological creation. Sisyphus: reborn.

      No recent events are "tipping points" because none of those events are sufficiently more apalling than what we're currently used to as a society. They're bad, but not that bad.

      Precisely.  You described a system of domination perfectly.  In fact, it's hardly unique to America or to this period in history.  There are good arguments that it's a condition which lasted for 5000 years to varying degrees.  

      To replace a system of domination with a system of partnership is a hard.  Yet whether you know it or not, many of the causes that I see people on this blog advocate for accomplish facets of partnership.  I think  we should keep working at it and always keep our values in mind.  

      I find it unlikely that there will be a cultural revolution that takes place in a "fell swoop". I believe it's more likely that there will be an evolution in values simply because our survival depends on it.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:35:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting, however..... (0+ / 0-)

      They're bad, but not that bad.

      I could not disagree more - here is one of my favorite quotes:

      A civilized society that no longer cares for it's children, it's indigent and poor, and it's elderly, no longer has the right to call itself a civilized society.       Anon.

      I could not disagree with you more.  Not only is it bad, it is disgusting, that we as a society can no longer call our selves a civilized society.  What in god's name does that say about us?

      That is incomprehensible to me, and I reject the notion that we cannot find our way back from this Oligarch Madness that has taken our nation over.

      I realize that 'things' could get worse, but I'm for one not going to sit around on my ass waiting for that to happen, and believing that if I just blog enough, and become more desensitized to what my nation has become, and who are leaders have become, that 'my cynical and jaded new world order' personality, will somehow make it A-OK for me to be able to sleep at night.

      I stand by the values my Irish Grandfather and Grandmother gave to me.....that I reject the fact that we are so lost, we cannot regain who we are as a people.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:23:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Labor Day protest? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sistersilverwolf, Badabing

    wouldn't that be a good day for a protest ... and a three day weekend

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 07:55:30 AM PDT

    •  Sounds like an appropriate day (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clytemnestra

      given the current employment situation.  It could be combined with other efforts such as ending the endless wars in Afghanistan & Iraq.  Vets should also be involved as our government claims they can't find money to help homeless vets.  Then there are the attacks by the deficit commission on our social safety net.  We are once again faced with fighting those who want to cut social security and medicare.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:39:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There is a tipping point.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xaxado, Badabing

    and it reflects online, on facebook, chats, comment sections on corporate media. It hasn't hit the streets yet in large numbers. I predict it will at some point.

  •  as far back as Cindy Sheehan at Crawford (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn, forester, Badabing

    I've been disappointed. We finally had someone standing up the the Man and offering a tipping point for those that would take it. There were maybe a thousand of us there to lend support.  In the middle of Houston Ft. Worth, Dallas, Austin and San Antonio and maybe a thousand protesters showed. There were almost as many pro war fools.

    I went from Mexico, where I live, and stayed for five days and while the people I met there were special it was a very disappointing experience.  
    You can imagine my disappointment now after having won an election and incorporating drone technology.

    "Bad Bruise before dishonor"

    by tRueffert on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:04:54 AM PDT

    •  We managed to bring out half million people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing

      to DC around the time of Cindy Sheehan's protest.  There was real energy back then.  I think it's time to get it going again.  This war in Afghanistan is killing our economy as well as the troops and civilians:  

      From Robert Greenwald:

      http://www.facebook.com/...

      People need to wake up.  We are setting new records now for casualties in Afghanistan.  It's going to get way worse if Petraeus pushed for another "surge".  Watch out for that next.

      "There's no green there, they killed their mother" -- Avatar

      by noofsh on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:43:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bbbbbut, IOKIYAD! (4+ / 0-)

    Nice to see you BBing! I have missed your voice.

    A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

    by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:18:11 AM PDT

    •  always great to see you nippersdad...xoxoxo (4+ / 0-)

      I was totally burned out, and losing my edge....I had to step away from the fire because my eyebrows were getting singed.

      Hope you are doing well my friend...

      B.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:24:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "The only time I am in in the afternoons is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trinityfly, Badabing

        during bouts of extreme penury." Oscar Wilde

        I have been singeing my eyebrows for lack of anything more affordable to do these days. :) Ah well, this too shall pass...I hope. Otherwise, everyone is doing famously and the gardens are unusually beautiful this year. Nice to not have a drought year for once!

        I am glad to see you back! You were missed, but it is far better to step back when you need a break than to give up in frustration. I dropped out for a while to commune with my zucchini and found them surprisingly intellectual by comparison to some of the other vegetables that I have become inured to.

        All of the usual characters await! To horse!

        A Republican is someone who can't enjoy his privileged position unless he is certain that somewhere, someone is in excruciating agony. I Love OCD

        by nippersdad on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:50:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  One day I hope we can meet face to face, and have (0+ / 0-)

          a serious discussion with your zucchini's.  They sound fascinating.....

          B.

          ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

          by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 05:15:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  you're right & you're wrong - WHY haven't the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Badabing

    slobbering fools dropped the trowel for the 5 gallon bucket of velveta, shut off the idiot box,

    and done SOMETHING?

    whew. cuz they thugs have figured out that if you keep The Big Lie focused the right way, the slobbering fools will blame the blacks or the immigrants or the gays or the gubmint or ...

    cuz it is easier than DOING something, and

    cuz, courtesy of The Big Lie, my time is a-coming and I don't want to pay all my money in taxes when I make it!

    I WANT MINE (see RayGun)

    the pipping point SHOULD have come with the pension raiding & pensions-turned-casino in the 80's with raygun & the leveraged buy out savings and loan f'king mess ... BUT

    every theft since then has been bigger than the ones before it!

    I actually believe there will be a tipping point - it is obviously gonna be some "where's the beef" kind of thing, some who-knows-what that is gonna get the slumbering slobbering shitheads off their lazy asses ...

    and it will be some kind of "where's the beef" outta the blue who'd-a-thunk kind of thing,

    cuz it sure as hell ain't REALITY getting them off their asses.

    rmm.

    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

    by seabos84 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:23:35 AM PDT

  •  I have always admired the French (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Badabing, on the cusp

    their intellectual curiosity, their ability to simplify and see through the bullshit, their courage in facing Capitalism and supporting workers and their strong middle class.

    If I were younger, I would leave this country in a heartbeat - France or Costa Rica.

    I am a Vietnam veteran who served honorably.  My civilian career of 20+ yrs was in social services.  It is my humble opinion that the case/fight for a just society in the United States has been lost.

    Sad.

    •  New Caledonia is the place for me, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tommyfocus2003, Badabing

      Liberté, égalité, fraternité

      It's time for trains. Infrastructure is money in the bank.

      by 88kathy on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 08:58:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  thank you for your service to our nation..I honor (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, tommyfocus2003

      you for all that you went through.  I was raised by a Byrd. Col. in the USAF.  

      I agree with you about the French, and Europeans in general.  We as citizens have willingly stopped our civic duty of demanding change through protests.  There are at least a million excuses in the comments in this diary, but I simply do not buy those excuses.

      If it is worth fighting over, it is worth showing up for, and there is nothing more important than standing shoulder to shoulder with other Americans, facing your 'so called leaders' in their offices or plush houses, to call them out on their nefarious deeds, that have continually sold the American Middle Class down the river.

      This Oligarch Madness is not completely and utterly out of control, and we either find the courage to March again and create a movement like we did in the past, or we just lay down and take it, because I know from experience:

      It is never enough.  These government weasels are going to strip us down to the bone if we don't stop them now.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:31:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There will always be weasels, even (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, Badabing

        if we finally get off our asses and stop the current crop of weasels.  Even with the best intentions, 'new' governments eventually become gangs, not terribly different from the 'old' government.

        This is where the heart of your diary comes to the forefront.  

        It is the citizens who must be vigilant, it is the citizens who must stand up, it is the citizens who must fight...but most of all:

        It is the citizens who must band together whatever their political strip because divided we fail.

        Some of the first comments in response to this diary are bashing 'teabaggers'...at least they have gotten off of their fat asses.  I am sick and tired of people looking for a reason to not unite with (or at least talk to) their fellow citizens in common interest...it's just another excuse to stay seated and participate in the status quo.

      •  I served with European troops (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, Badabing

        at NATO HDQT's in Belgium.  Best duty ever.  Those men and women were superb.  In a sense, the best and the brightest from all NATO countries.  I learned at an early age, during that assignment, that many in Europe understand the world at a far deeper and more nuanced way than almost all of my US colleagues.  There was a mix of pragmatism and sharpness of perception about the world that left Americans in the dust.  I actually did live in Belgium for two years.  J'aime les Belges.  I love the Belgians and the French.  I spoke French, learned it well, and they loved me for that.

        If I were younger, I would live in the South of France.  Wonderful chocolat chaud avec une baguette du pain - yummmmmmmmm!

  •  a tipping point is like geology (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, alizard, Badabing

    and you have to stand back to see it. The gasoline crisis first showed up in 1974 in the US. IMO the arc of the curve will bend slowly for decades until we realize we're seriously committed to renewables, say in 2020.

    The banks - someone at the top might have to die before they're penetrated by daylight and brought under control. I don't advocate violence nor would I participate in it, but the big banks truly are asking for it, as options run out and our gleaming cities are filling with pup tents, while the rich flaunt their wealth and power.

    The libertarian streak in this country will at some point tip toward "a little rebellion." It will seem sudden at the time.

  •  I once caddied for the Dalai Llama and when (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, Words In Action

    we finshed, he said there will be no tipping point for you.

    A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy.

    by dry heat dem on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:23:46 AM PDT

  •  Patience, Grasshopper (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Badabing, Words In Action

    When America has felt enough pain, America will change.

  •  Tipping Points do exist. It's an important (4+ / 0-)

    phenomenon.

    Whether Americans are asleep at the wheel (yes), is another issue.

    This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

    by AllisonInSeattle on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 09:43:41 AM PDT

  •  Trust me there's a tipping point (5+ / 0-)

    You don't believe me?  Re-institute the draft.

  •  Outstanding Diary. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Badabing, Words In Action

    And an important point that no one wants to hear.

    Protests by themselves DO accomplish something. Of course, the participants have to be numerous enough, desperate enough, and committed enough to turn out the numbers and commit to the staying power that would accomplish something.

    In our eyes, a march on Washington is a noon to 3 event, replete with two concerts, subway rides to and from our air conditioned homes and/or hotels, and a city full of street vendors hocking buttons and bumper stickers.

    We're are nowhere near the collective desperation and personal stake in the cause to amass the furor and numbers it would take to force change, but we will be someday.

    It would be stunning and generationally meaningful to see a small group of concerned citizens stir up the passions to bring it about before we are forced, and if anywhere can do it, DK might. But it's an uphill climb.

  •  It's a lot harder to get to DC... (0+ / 0-)

    ...for most people living in the US than it is to get to Paris for a variety of reasons.

    The Raptor of Spain: A Webserial
    From Muslim Prince to Christian King (Updated Nov. 24)

    by MNPundit on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:11:10 AM PDT

  •  I certainly share your anger (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens

    with the financial industry and the fucked-upness of living in a corporate controlled culture, but disagree that there's no tipping point.

    Marching on Washington means jackshit anymore.  The only thing that will change this culture is activism at the local level - we need progressives in office from school boards to the judicial system, from small towns to big cities.  We need Progressives running the boards that oversee power companies and waste disposal companies.  We need counties that are given the ability to control development and water usage, and alternative energy sources and waste management.

    We need to stop letting the Tea Party rule locally because we're not motivated or excited by the tiny elections that happen every year.

    If we're not the people who are creating change we can believe in, we have no reason to complain about how awful things are.  We've allowed this, whether we've spoken out against it or not.

    We've been willing to pay those corporate entities, to keep them in business, because they provide things that make our lives more amusing, or interesting, or easy.  A fully Republican congress and administration can't twist our whole economy toward the top 1% and away from the rest of us unless we're somehow complicit in the game.  

    I am, at heart, an optimist, which I consider to be spiritually necessary and proper, as well as intellectually suspect.

    by I love OCD on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:25:58 AM PDT

  •  Brilliant diary! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard, 3goldens, Eryk, Badabing

    A vast and penetrating analysis of our current predicament.  I couldn't agree more.

    My sense is that congressional democrats have been negotiating with republicans in bad faith.  As is painfully obvious to all but the most seasoned corporate news reporter, each "negotiation" faithfully adheres to a common plan; the democrats concede the salient progressive points of legislation to win over GOP votes, then pass the legislation without said GOP votes, then move on to the next set of "negotiations" without expressing even a hint of outrage that their policy agenda was sabotaged by GOP treachery.  A few rounds of this match reveals the true motives of congressional democrats:  to pass republican legislation that serves corporate interests.

    Also significant is the lack of outrage at the GOP's unprecedented use of the filibuster.  Democrats accepted this new 60 vote majority rule without a whimper, and in fact have helped to establish it as standard practice by mentioning the need for 60 votes not to attack republicans for stalling their agenda, but to attack their own base.  It is beyond our control, whine the democrats, because we don't have the votes.  You progressives are so radical, criticizing us for something beyond our control.

    Finally, the democrats would have us believe that they historically illiterate.  They must get stuff done, we are told, or else nobody will vote for them.  Disregard the fact that medicare was passed not on the first try, or the second, no, democrats tried and "failed" twice before passing medicare.  They did not neuter the legislation in an effort to reach across the aisle.  They put it up for a vote, the republicans defeated it, and democrats presented a choice to the public:  vote for more of us, so we can pass this crucial legislation, or vote for republicans so it does not pass.  Would medicare now be a third rail issue if democrats have gutted it so they could pass it on the first try?  

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 11:49:37 AM PDT

    •  Now you got it..it good cop/bad cop gov't...thats (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      that game...that is the 'racket' they all have going now....that is why we Americans are called the 'Suckers of Last Resort' and why people in other 'civilized' nations (unlike ours) are laughing at us.

      The Democrats and Republicans just keep passing back power back and forth, and over and over again, and meanwhile, our Constitution has been shredded to death, and Oligarch Madness reins unabated.

      Nothing changes, because we have forgotten where we came from, and how we got there.  The Robber Barons are looking to strip us clean down to the bone, and if you don't think they are going to..........

      think again.

      ...oh, not to worry, I'm wearing a Flame Retardant Valentino Orange Moo Moo whenever I visit DailyKos.

      by Badabing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 02:37:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This great diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing

    made me feel young and ready to march again!
    I could stand a day in jail...

    Not much to report here

    by on the cusp on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 12:38:12 PM PDT

  •  I'll tell you why there's no.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, Badabing

    fucking tipping point.

    Because even the poor among us can afford a pretty big tv, a cellphone, an xbox for the kids.

    Cheap gadgets and the junk reality that's been created and fostered have hypnotized and successfully turned our attention away from important things.

    They've succeeded in making us believe that this artificially and irrelevant drama is important and real.

    It's the ultimate sleight of hand. Look over here @ Jon and Kate. That Afghanistan and Iraq thing, don't worry about that. Wall Street, the Oil Spill, corporate thieves, pay no attention.

    My corollary to the "no tipping point" is that there are also "no smoking guns" anymore.

    I've made the point over and over here that if
    Bush and Cheney had outed a CIA agent in the seventies, or created a phony war with phony intel, or authorized torture, they would have been impeached.

    Now, people just yawn.

    Who's on Dancing with the Stars this week?

    "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

    by jkay on Sun Jul 04, 2010 at 01:54:36 PM PDT

  •  Brilliant work. Horrifying to read. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing

    Brilliant work.  Horrifying to read, like when I saw Frankenstein for the first time as a kid and the minute that monster was on my TV screen I was halfway down the street.   We are living in a horror movie.  I have to believe, though, that there is most definitely a groundswell of pissed-off-ness brewing; I feel it in my bones and read it in blogs like the Daily Kos which encourage dialogue, catching ‘em with their pants down, and for the first time in my adult life, I personally give a shit and have become a noisy, cranky leftist with a poking stick   Obviously, outlets like this are providing a context for dialogue, which we’ve never had before.  We have been living in a state of impotence taking screw job after screw job, watching our country raped and pillaged by George W. and his posse of Huns, not permitted to see flag-covered coffins of our young dead like we were a country of dumb children (so they could continue the devil’s work without the glare of the media).  But I’m tellin’ ya’; I don’t know how and I don’t know when, but I believe that our collective  hemorrhoids  are acting up after all these screw jobs, and there will be hell to pay.  We are getting mighty uncomfortable, and our voices are louder every day; those of us who worked for Obama still have the same dreams we had then; I believe as a group, we are becoming more and more resentful that we’re not living the promise.  Although people much younger are surprisingly interested, astute and aware, activism is not dead; it’s just in it’s 50’s.  

  •  There's no such thing as Malcolm Gladwell (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Badabing, barbara318

    He's really Joel Grey trapped in a time warp.

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