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I think a lot of people have forgotten what the $940 billion Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 will do for America. The diary Bill Moyers Want you to read this makes good point in advocating for single payer, while it also portrays how the HCR Bill passed five months ago does very little.

Sorry, I don't buy into that kind of argument. The HCR Bill passed will enable many without access to have health insurance so that their lives will not prematurely end preventing the 45,000 death cause by lack of insurance, narrowing Racial and Class disparity gap, etc. So, I thought to round up a list of things we have forgotten to balance the non-stop negatives spin in all fairness. Personally, we can build on what we have but anyone trying to knock down the HCR bill in order to sell me a single payer lacks understanding. PERIOD!

A recap summary of what the Health Care Reform Bill will do and/or is doing--

According to CBS News:

Deficit:

     -Would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years. That is an updated CBO estimate. Their first preliminary estimate said it would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over ten years. Would reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion dollars in the second ten years.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

   * The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
   * Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
   * Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

   * Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Medicare:

   * Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
   * Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

   * Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
   * Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
   * Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
   * Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

   * Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
   * Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
   * Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26th.

Ten immediate benefits of HCR

  1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 26th birthday
  2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions
  3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage
  4. Free preventative care for all
  5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.
  6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.
  7. The "donut hole" closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.
  8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.
  9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.
 10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can't lose your insurance because you get sick.

More immediate Benefits:

Access to Affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions - The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will provide $5 billion in immediate federal support for a new program to provide affordable coverage to uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions. This provision is effective 90 days after enactment, and coverage under this program will continue until new Exchanges are operational in 2014.

Access to Quality Care for Vulnerable Populations
-The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act makes an immediate and substantial investment in Community Health Centers to provide the funding needed to expand access to health care in communities where it is needed most. This $10 billion investment begins in 2010 and extends for five years.

[there is more read on]

More short term benefit:

  1. SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS--  Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available to firms that choose to offer coverage. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, the small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)
  1. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE-- Provides a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the donut hole in 2010. Effective for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2011, institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the donut hole; also completely closes the donut hole by 2020.)
  1. FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER MEDICARE-- Eliminates co-payments for preventive services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program. Effective beginning January 1, 2011.
  1. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES-- Creates a temporary re-insurance program (until the Exchanges are available) to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64. Effective 90 days after enactment
  1. ENDS RESCISSIONS-- Bans health plans from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Effective 6 months after enactment.
  1. NO DISCRIMINATON AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS-- Prohibits health plans from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to all persons.)
  1. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE-- Prohibits health plans from placing lifetime caps on coverage. Effective 6 months after enactment.
  1. BANS RESTRICTIVE ANNUAL LIMITS ON COVERAGE-- Tightly restricts new plans' use of annual limits to ensure access to needed care. These tight restrictions will be defined by HHS. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, the use of any annual limits would be prohibited for all plans.)

I am certain there are a number of other elements that are beneficial in this bill even if this Bill is not what we all wanted. However, we have to make sure not to forget the political environment that crippled the chance to move forward with a more swiping reform we could possibly have -- public option or single payer. We all know whether we are pro this HCR bill or not that single payer is the way to go but NO one should make the case for single payer by dissing what has taken a generation to reform Health Care.

As the grand daddy of Public Option, Jacob S. Hacker, makes the case that no reform was not an option even if Public Option was removed from the Senate health care bill because the plan does more good than some would portray it to be. He states that it is a start in the right direction while PO was preferable.

The bottom line is we have gotten a good plan. Is it the best? NO. Can it get better, of course it can. So, how can we achieve more progress in the HCR arena? Well, instead of trying to point out the imperfections of the bill 2 months before mid-term election, we could point out the good and educate those that are confused by the 24/7 misinformation PR war what it is doing or will do for them. Last but not least, we could learn a thing or two from what Femlaw is doing to electing more democrat so that we have the voice to shape the direction we must go.

What say you?

Originally posted to ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:33 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (127+ / 0-)

    ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

    by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:33:03 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for the shoutout (35+ / 0-)

      and the reminders of what we have all worked hard to accomplish together.

      Our work isn't done, not by a long shot, which is why I want to make sure we have a Congress, and state government, that gives us some hope of moving forward.

    •  I do real world... (62+ / 0-)

      ...in my day job. I am very very well aware of the potential benefits of what did pass.  Like most of the single payer advocates I know, I actually work in the field of serving the otherwise underserved; the poor, the minority, the rural and urban underserved, the homeless, the HIV+ etc.  

      I also know what b.s. compromises were made needlessly by coroporatcrats including in the White House. I also know Obama ran on public option and no mandates, and instantly reversed himself.  I also know that single payer advocacy was squelched by pre-compromising Democrats. I also know that the WH has been well packed with industry insiders.

      If you go to my DKos page you will see I am pediatrician and public health doctor. If you look at my links you will see both single payer advocacy, and links for how to get health insurance and health care. If you look at my diaries you will see advocacy for progressive politics and policies.

      When I go to your diary listing, I see no biography, but I do see one diary after another defending the mediocrity of this administration, and criticizing those who call for stronger progressive values and stronger progressive economic populism.  

      I will continue to do the best we can in the real world where 99.9% of Republicans are corporate hacks and so are 51% of Democrats. Where tbe corporate media bias is complete, and where income and wealth inequality has risen as a result of deliberate policy since the mid-1970s.

      But I will advocate for best policy. I will advocate for something better.

      I also see a politics where Dems like you and Obama are going to defend the indefinsible (mandates), and when the economics of plan blow up the conservatives are going to blame it on big government, when the problem is really, still the indurance companies, the drug companies, the for profit hospitals, and yes the more obnoxious/selfish elements among doctors.

      Who will the public believe? What happens when we do come to that next fork in the road? If there is a chance of doing better in the future, then we need to get the message out about what the real problems are with this mediocrity.

      •  So I see the true motivation for your diary. (33+ / 0-)

        I am sorry but I disagree with your approach while I think your advocacy for a single payer is commendable. As to me, all you need to know is that I am just an average dad who fights for the future of his children and the next generation. Further, if you are interested in Criminal Injustice Kos, you can see what I advocate for as a co-editor of that community. Good night, Doctor. We do have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:52:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  If you honestly think (27+ / 0-)

        that we would be better off without PPACA, you can make that argument to those who are helped by it including 25 year olds who now get to stay on their parents health insurance instead of having to do without, and  children who now are coverd without regard to preexisting conditions.

        Last time health insurance reform failed it was a decade and a half before it was touched again.  

        If you want to revisit this issue sooner from farther along highlighting the positives here is critical.

        Believe me the Republicans will be quite happy to add "and it doesn't do anything - and the Democrats knew it" to "you have to pay for it and the economics suck" in their list of criticisms.

        •  Indeed (16+ / 0-)

          I'm not better off with PPACA. I'm not sure why I should be celebrating enthusiastically that people who can afford to pay for insurance are now being permitted to pay for it.

          I mean, for a relative handful of people, it's something. But for the overwhelming majority who needed help, it is nothing at all.

          Don't tell me that I am now better off because those people are permitted to pay for their insurance. Don't tell me that I am now getting benefits. That's a lie, which I have heard a great many times. Don't tell me that I will survive until then just fine, because you don't know that.

          And don't tell me that I will get a generous enough subsidy so it doesn't bankrupt me to actually access benefits (you know, that pesky thing called a "deductible"?). It is wishful thinking that there will be any subsidies left by the time the Republicans get through with it.

          Sorry to rain on your party, but failing to recognize that the bill is not a huge plus for everyone in the country is going to bite you really soon.

          "Too big to fail" is not too big to jail.

          by Angela Quattrano on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:30:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  the bill mandates INSURANCE when the problem is.. (22+ / 0-)

          ...a lack of affordable CARE.  The insurance industry gained far more than consumers from this bill: millions of new customers by force or by subsidy.

          ThAnswr "If the administration can't fight for it's friends, don't expect us to fight their enemies."

          by Uberbah on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:01:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't play semantics games, (13+ / 0-)

            having insurance is how citizens of this country get care. If you're lucky, mind you.

            Furthermore, the penalties for not purchasing insurance are tantamount to a slap on the wrist. Plus, the Medical Loss Ratios are going to help ensure that the consumers are getting something for their money. The law isn't perfect, and will probably ultimately be considered a stop-gap measure. That doesn't mean that it won't provide care to those who are insured in the meantime.

            •  It is not semantics (11+ / 0-)

              to say insurance and care are different, they are.  Insurance does not guarantee you care, in fact, many people have had insurance only to find the drug, or procedure is not covered.  The reform bill did nothing to fix that and in fact, it makes things worse in an economy like this.  The bill relied on insurance being provided through business, but many people don't have coverage because they don't work full time at one job.  By not having a public option there is no place for those making too much for existing government aid and too little to even afford a basic plan.  I will bet that there will be far less people enrolled in insurance with rates continuing to increase in the next 10 years.  By focusing on insurance and not cost, the fixes do nothing to treat the cause of the pain, the cost of coverage.

            •  the core issue is AFFORDABILITY (15+ / 0-)

              the PPACA does NOT restrain the ever exploding cost of healthcare insurance premiums.

              Not now. Not tomorrow. Not next year.

              Not ever.

              They are now required to sell you insurance - but they still get to decide how much to charge.

              For those who say, "Ok, but the subsidies will lower the cost to those with lower incomes."

              I say, "So, it wasn't ok to have Single Payer, where we all of us Taxpayers pooled our 'premiums' and provided basic care to everyone, with small or no co-pays at the point of service (much like most other industrialized nations do) - but it is ok to subsidize the cost of premiums from Private businesses with Taxpayer dollars.

              If the money is coming from the Taxpayers either way, then why did we have to keep letting the Insurance Industry strip-mine the Healthcare Money Bucket for up to 30% of the total dollars available each year?

              This Act does do some good - but not nearly enough of the right kind. Without cost constraints, this new Law is already a failure - because without cost constraints is does not meet it's primary mission: to reduce the cost of delivering healthcare.

              •  To me, the bill seemed woefully (0+ / 0-)

                inadequate on the cost containment issue because it was a bill more focused on expanding coverage. Really, it pretty much came down to should healthy poor people be able to afford it, or should chronically ill people be able to get it.  

        •  and when that 25 yo turns 26 or 27 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Fossil

          how will s/he be covered then? it's a bandaid when major surgery was required, and an infected bandaid at that with the ins industry mandated into it.

          "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

          by zedaker on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:39:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Many of us have accused Obama of squandering away (22+ / 0-)

        a year and a half on comprised, mediocre to poor policy decisions.  I now realize that we are equally guilty of squandering away a year and a half on engaging in our favorite circular firing squads, instead of focusing like a laser on our REAL enemies--the crazed rightwing puppet-masters, and their lunatic sheeple.

        All of us, IMO, want the same broad, Democratic goals.  We disagree on how they can be best accomplished.  But, our none of our goals, including Single Payer, will EVER come to fruition (incrementally or otherwise) as long as we seek to destroy each other instead of the corporatocracy and their minions--in both parties.

        I think that progressives and liberals are not feared (or respected) by leaders/candidates in either party.  Only by delivering a blistering show of strength at the ballot box, will they ever get the message that those who fight for Main Street over Wall Street will be rewarded with our votes.

        Two months away from mid-term elections and we lob bombs at each other.  Maybe the Teabaggers aren't the only ones who are blithering idiots.

        •  so true, awcomeon. (11+ / 0-)

          I also don't think we have done a good job of convincing people that our views are mainstream -- pro choice, pro-health care, anti-war.  You know we are painted as this liberal fringe but down the line on almost every issue what we believe is square with the mainstream of the country.   Even on such things as marijuna legalization, and its moving that way on gay marriage.

        •  You mean (7+ / 0-)

          that all the people who called, emailed, wrote, and faxed Washington on healthcare reform as they were told to were wasting their time and should have know this?

          "Too big to fail" is not too big to jail.

          by Angela Quattrano on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:32:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He means (6+ / 0-)

            all the people here who were screaming to "primary" Bernie Sanders.

          •  No...I mean exactly what I said. Those who put (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ThisIsMyTime

            their actions where their principles were/are, in order to bring about the  changes they envision, are  probably way too busy to spend hours unceasingly attacking other Dems on the blogosphere.

            I count myself among those who have wasted hours at my keyboard, with many fewer hours devoted to calling, faxing, emailing, and writing letters to the editors.  I've been royally p.o.'d with my president, whom I still believe to be a great man who has a totally different management style than my own.  Which is why he's POTUS, and I'm not. LOL.

            I'd rather be a take-no-prisoners-Palin-type progressive, than a turn-the-other-cheek-a-million- times appeaser.  As much as I despise Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Bachmann, Blackburn, and their crazed wingnutty cohorts, I do admire that they are FIGHTERS (as wrong as two left shoes, but fighters none-the-less.)

            In the end, Repubs have gotten stronger by remaining united--even in the dumbest, most asinine, country-destroying BS I've ever witnessed.  IMO, the same cannot be said for us progressives/liberals.  We seem to have totally lost the Big Picture/long-term goals due to constant infighting.

            We didn't get a lot of what we thought would be achieved.  Meh.  It's time for us to get over it and get back to work.  A Repub takeover will get us exactly a big, fat, ZERO toward further progress.

        •  you mean focused on passing the buck? (17+ / 0-)

          I now realize that we are equally guilty of squandering away a year and a half on engaging in our favorite circular firing squads, instead of focusing like a laser on our REAL enemies--the crazed rightwing puppet-masters, and their lunatic sheeple.

          Obama and the Democrats were handed all the power they needed to get everything done in 2008.  Republicans are only as relevant as the Democrats choose to make them relevant.  Republicans didn't force Obama to premtively compromise with them at every turn.  Republicans didn't force Obama to invite the same Billy Tauzin that Obama attacked during the campaign to the White House to make the same kind of backroom deal with Pharma that Obama attacked during the campaign.  Republicans didn't force Obama to take single payer off the table.  Republicans didn't force Obama to throw away the public option to the for-profit hospital lobby near the start of the health care debate debacle.

          This is what Obama chose to do, not what he was forced to do.

          Anymore than Republicans forced him to escalate Afghanistan, place Americans on CIA hit lists, maintain the gulags in Gitmo and Bagram, kick a thousand gays out of the military since he took office, or expand Bush's claims of executive privilege.

          You guys need to realize that Obama isn't being held back from doing the change he promised, but in many cases is as much of an obstacle to that change as any Republican (see above, see Salazar at Interior, see that Treasury employs more Goldman Sachs executives than Goldman Sachs).  It sucks, but that is the undeniable record.

          But but but he's done A and B some will say?  Whoop de do.  Reagan strengthened Social Security and signed a treaty requiring the prosecution of torture.  Didn't make him a liberal, either.

          ThAnswr "If the administration can't fight for it's friends, don't expect us to fight their enemies."

          by Uberbah on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:14:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now now.. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aspe4, zedaker, AdamSelene, Kickemout, Ginger1

            ... you need to stop with all those facts and start clapping louder or you'll be part of the problem!

            They seem to believe that clapping louder will narrow the enthusiasm gap. It won't. - democracy inaction

            by Rick Aucoin on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:31:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "clap louder" - that's such a fresh image (5+ / 0-)

              did you just make it up?

            •  I do not dispute "all of those facts"--in fact, I (0+ / 0-)

              agree with many of the points.  I've been plenty upset about many actions that Pres. Obama has taken that do not seem to be in sync with what I seemed to have heard him campaign on.

              However, it's two months before elections.  Even if every single complaint and accusation were 100% true, this president is STILL vastly preferable and superior to the Republican alternatives.  

              How does our being right in our criticisms further our goals for the next Congressional term?  Has this strategy worked in furthering our goals for progress?  If so, then I guess many of us will continue to focus our wrath on fellow Dems rather than the hatemongering, rightwing empire.

              Personally, I'm ready to concentrate for the next two months on stopping the Repubs from consolidating even more power.  Pres. Obama will still be there to earn my praise or enmity after Nov.

              If that is passing the buck, I'm proud to do sol

          •  Okay. I don't disagree with many of your points. (0+ / 0-)

            I've often felt the exact same way.  But, it is what it is, at this point.  I can't go back and change it.  So, what are my options?  Continue to bitch and moan because Obama did not do things the way I wanted them done?  Or, try to stop infighting long enough to insure that do-nothing Repubs don't retake Congress and guarantee that no progressive goals are ever enacted again?

            Can't we focus on stopping the crazed rightwing for two months?  Is Obama really a bigger enemy to us than they are?

            •  for starters.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cameoanne

              Or, try to stop infighting long enough to insure that do-nothing Repubs don't retake Congress and guarantee that no progressive goals are ever enacted again?

              ...realize that the infighting you are complaining about is the effect and not the cause of the problem.  Nor will it be the cause of a single loss this fall.

              It will be union workers staying home, after being saddled with excise taxes on health care plans instead of getting the EFCA.  It will be gay rights voters staying home after Obama broke his promise to be a "fierce advocate for gay rights", discharging a thousand gays from the military since he took office.  It will be Latino workers sitting at home, when Obama talks more about there being consequences for illegal immigration than the need for immigration reform.  It will be the middle class sitting at home after being left to deal with the home foreclosure wave after watching the banks getting a bailout.  It will be the jobless sitting at home because their job wasn't saved by the stimulus as their unemployment runs out.  It will be families screwed by insurance companies staying home, because they will be looking forward to being mandated to buy insurance instead of receiving care.

              And none of that will be the fault of unions, gays, Latinos, those losing their homes, the middle class, or families struggling to pay medical bills.  It will be because Obama took their votes for granted instead of giving them a reason to vote for him other than "we're not as bad as Republicans".  It will be because Obama chose to favor banks and corporate interests over the vast majority of Americans.

              So, what are my options?

              Put them in fear of losing their jobs, that's what.  Many GLBT's have made it clear that the "GayTM" is closed until the Democrats start delivering on their promises on gay rights.  Unions could threaten to do the same until there is an EFCA.

              And remember that while Obama never asked to be defended from any and all criticism, but he did ask to hear from the base and be held accountable for his actions.  Funny how many Obama fans took that day off.

              ThAnswr "If the administration can't fight for it's friends, don't expect us to fight their enemies."

              by Uberbah on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 11:58:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the comment. Again, I don't disagree (0+ / 0-)

                with many of the points you've raised.  But my problem is, while I'm busy punishing Obama and the kiss-ass blue dogs, I'm contributing to the suffering and destruction of myself and my own family, friends, and countrymen for even more years.

                I can bitch, whine, and moan 'cause I'm royally p.o.'d, or I can realize that passive aggressively rewarding the Party of No by not fighting them every inch of the way is infinitely  worse.

                Besides, what have all the circular firing squads gotten this community in the last year and a half?  All barrels locked and loaded on fellow Dems while the teabaggers skip gleefully into power.

                Again, IMO, Obama and Congress are not the only ones who have squandered a year and a half of opportunities for making a positive difference.  I feel that many of us are guilty, also.

        •  I no longer perceive an "us" (9+ / 0-)

          There are people who slam Dems and don't care about the results, and there are people like me who see that as against my best interests and that of average Americans.

          We are NOT all allies and we are NOT all on the same page, period.  Readers beware.

          •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cameoanne, awcomeon

            There are people who slam Dems and don't care about the results

            More precisely, there are people who slam Dems BECAUSE of the results -- or lack thereof.

            To say that we have what we have because of Republican obstruction (or WORSE, to praise what we have), is foolishness.  Obviously there were more than enough Dems of a certain stripe around to guarantee that the status quo would be preserved.  Well, those are the Dems who are going to lose.  They're going to lose because they deserve to lose.  It is not the same as saying their opponents deserve to win, but, as some here like to remind those of us who do nothing but criticize, them's the breaks in a 2 Party system.

            Dems are going to have to unite behind the proposition that they are for the people and against corporate interests and corporate lobbyists.  No excuses for the likes of Nelson, Baucus, Lincoln, Landrieu, Lieberman, Bayh.

            The administration has allowed these Senators to dictate the terms of debate rather than cracking the whip.  These Senators are more responsible for the current state of affairs than any other individuals in Congress.  Their joining with Republicans weakened the stimulus bill to the point it has become a liability for ALL Democrats.  Their having joined with Republicans killed the Public Option.  Their joining with Republicans has given credence to the deficit reduction argument which will make Stimulus II nothing but an unemployed person's wet dream.  Their joining with Republicans has all but guaranteed another crisis of taxpayer bailout proportions.  THEY NEED TO GO becasue THEY are no better than those who will replace them.

            The results speak for themselves.

            •  Excellent comment. I am soooo hoping that (0+ / 0-)

              obstructionist Dems will lose, but I also want more progressive Dems to win.  I do not want teabagger Repubs picking up more seats.  But, I have to admit, I will celebrate if/when Blanche Lincoln bites the dust.  I keep saying that her voting for some Dem issues is better than a teabagger who will vote for none, but I just can't drum up any sympathy for her.

              Still, I have to look at each individual candidate and try to educate myself on their past records, actions, and rhetoric.  I held my nose and voted for Creigh Deeds here in VA.  Didn't want to, but I knew GOP McDonnell and his henchman Cuccinelli would be a thousand times worse.  I'm sure you've been hearing about their crusade to turn back the clock.  

              It is what it is.

      •  The democratic leadership looked like... (20+ / 0-)

        fools with HCR.  They were either incompetent, cowardly or corrupt.  To say anything nice about this crap is to encourage further watered down and ineffective legislation.

        Do Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, really believe they can generate support and enthusiasm through compromise and surrender?

        I'm sure the corporate donations to their campaigns will make up for ignoring their base.

        Corporate PACs, not just bribery but a lifestyle!

        by rubine on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:24:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How much support could they generate... (16+ / 0-)

          If they held out for the entire ball of wax and walked away with nothing?  How did that work out for the Clintons?

          What do you think those 40,000 Americans who unnecessarily die each year because they can't afford health care vote would rather have, "this crap" or nothing?

          How about the 15-20 million poor and working poor who will now be eligible for Medicaid?  Think they will be pissed at those "incompetent, cowardly or corrupt" Democrats who got them free health insurance?

          How about the 20-25 million middle class folks who couldn't afford health insurance and will now get generous help paying their premiums?  You think they'll be all atwitter over "compromise and surrender"?

          Do you realize that one part of the PPACA was yet another fix to the 50 year old Medicare bill?  '

          We don't get from the start line to the finish line in one big jump.  We take steps, and then more steps, and then more steps, and ....

          Furthermore, this was one BFD giant step.

          Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

          by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:20:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Medicaid, right (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cdreid, slinkerwink, rubine, m00finsan

            You mean if the states bother to fund it?

            You know that it doesn't matter how much of a subsidy someone gets if their deductible is so high they can't file a claim, right?

            "Too big to fail" is not too big to jail.

            by Angela Quattrano on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:38:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Right... (8+ / 0-)

              Increasing Access to Medicaid.  

              Americans who earn less than 133 percent of the poverty level (approximately $14,000 for an individual and $29,000 for a family of four) will be eligible to enroll in Medicaid.

              States will receive 100 percent federal funding for the first three years to support this expanded coverage, phasing to 90 percent federal funding in subsequent years. Effective January 1, 2014

              ----

              This is for a family of four with an $80,000 annual income...

              The maximum out-of-pocket costs the person/family will be responsible for in 2014 (not including the premium) is $8,333.

              For the same family making $40,000 per year...

              The maximum out-of-pocket costs the person/family will be responsible for in 2014 (not including the premium) is $4,167

              I sort of think people will find this ~10% of income on those years when they really need a lot of health care.

              Sure beats dying....

              Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

              by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:50:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well of course (10+ / 0-)

                hell sure my moms damn near losing her house. My sister is trying to figure out ways to keep her daughter fed. One of my best friends lost his wifes car and is going to lose his truck. Sure my best friend is terrified he'll have to move home, at age 26, with his parents. Sure my best female friend is pretty certain her company is shutting down and that dream of a house is gone forever.

                But hell its only 10% tithe we're requiring them to pay to their corporate overlords. If they cant afford that theyre just lazy!

                And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:02:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So the answer is to put the people back in charge (6+ / 0-)

                  who made all that happen?

                  "The only thing we have to fear - is fear itself." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

                  by orrg1 on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:48:31 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No (8+ / 0-)

                    Nobody here is saying that.  But be realistic about what $4000 (net) means to a family making $40000 (gross).

                    $40000 = $3330/month (before taxes)

                    Say you take home $3000 a month.

                    Pay the mortgage and bills and gas and food, etc., and then magically find $4000.

                    Not when you might have, by some miracle, had a month when the car doesn't break down and the kids don't have a life that costs something extra and no appliances break and no unusual bills happen.

                    No, illness doesn't plan itself all that well. Say it happens in a month or two or three when real life happens and $3000 barely covers the necessities and sometimes things are paid late.

                    Now explain to the electric company that you have this deductible and the mortgage company will want to hear about it too -- that you have to spend 10% less of something that wasn't quite enough anyway -- that should go over well.

                    Rs suck. I get it. I'm not going to vote anything but D. But don't expect me to forget how to make a household budget work, barely, most months, to feel better about a bill that doesn't do enough for working people, for young people, for employers and employees (think maybe we'd have better employment numbers if we had universal health care -- I do).

                    Urge more steps in the right direction but don't expect anyone to be happy with this paltry step.

                    Nance

                    •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      foufou

                      The $4,000 is a maximum out of pocket for years in which you have major medical needs.  It's not an extra $300 per month every single year.

                      The bill is not perfect.  But before the bill goes into effect you will be paying out over $1,000 per month for the same coverage and still have the $4,000 annual out of pocket possibility.

                      That family making $4,000 has either been stretching their budget very hard to cover a $1,000+ premium or living without coverage.

                      This is better.

                      Perfect was not an option....

                      Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                      by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:17:59 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh dear lord (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        rubine

                        ya as i said bob if they cant come up with an extra 10% income fuckem right?

                        And again: NOTHING stops the insurance companies that increased rates THIS YEAR by 30-69% from doing it EVERY year.

                        And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                        by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 09:15:55 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Fuckem? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          foufou

                          Come on.

                          Yes, this bill may not take care of every single problem for every single person.

                          But the fact that it will make life much better for 40 million plus, that makes it a bad thing?

                          ---

                          Do I need to repost the cost control mechanisms or can you find them in the large blockquotes I posted elsewhere in this thread?

                          Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                          by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 10:11:34 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  No, we all see (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            rubine

                            that you can cut & paste. Which is very nice and informative. Thanks.

                            Now back to that $4000. Yes, I know I'm not going to pay a deductible in the years I am not sick.

                            But that's how insurance works -- or doesn't. If it isn't affordable when you actually need it, it isn't affordable.

                            I have homeowner's insurance like that. The only reason we have it is that the mortgage company requires it.

                            Nance

                          •  You have homeowners only because ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            foufou

                            you are forced to?

                            You are capable of buying a new house if the present one burns down?  Once your mortgage is paid off you'll drop your insurance?

                            Or are  you comfortable with the idea of walking away from your vacant lot and going back to being a renter?

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:46:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We will likely do (0+ / 0-)

                            what many homeowners do. Finally, fingers crossed, pay off the mortgage and then save the amount we now throw away on homeowners insurance against any major repairs.

                            That's not really an unusual idea in the real world. Having insurance is not a given for many people.

                            Which brings us back to healthcare. Would the amazing family that can save 10% of their income on a $40K salary for a family of four be better off banking the 10% (as if they could) and just buying catastrophic coverage? Or is that pretty much what they are doing now? Minus the savings account.

                            Nance

                          •  Or... (0+ / 0-)

                            They will purchase health coverage through the Exchange and go about their lives.  They will get their free preventative care and pay some out of pocket for the normal stuff for which people go to the doctor.

                            In the event that one of them has some serious health problems they might go in debt up to $4k for that year.

                            The option, for them, is to have no insurance and risk everything.  Risk loosing any assets they have and loosing their credit rating, along with be very deeply in debt. Risk needing some sort of serious treatment which would be beyond their means to purchase.

                            Can they buy catastrophic coverage for $192 a month?

                            Will it cover breast/colon/prostrate cancer?  Infectious diseases?  

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:56:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  $192 (0+ / 0-)

                            instead of $330 a month? No, it's in addition. They will borrow $4000? :) They have a credit rating worth the time of day? :) Come on. This is a struggling family. They have debt. Who is going to lend them $4000? Maybe their friendly credit card company.

                            What will more likely happen is they will pay those out-of-pocket expenses and the $192 a month, never quite reaching $4000 in any given year.

                            But if they are "lucky" enough to get a serious injury or illness they will be covered for the balance of that expense. Hurray?

                            The option they are likely "choosing" now is, indeed, no health insurance. Because they can't afford it. And they won't be able to afford $192 a month, every month, plus up to $4000 a year.

                            $192 is the light bill. Groceries for a week. When there is no extra now, which do you suggest they cut to afford the health insurance?

                            Just try to be real about how this is going to fit into real life. It is a step in the right direction. But it is not the great help it is made out to be.

                            Nance

                          •  $40,000 annual income... (0+ / 0-)

                            $3,333 per month.

                            $192 for health insurance.

                            That leaves them $3,141 for housing, food, utilities.  Not a tremendous amount of money, but many people live on far less.

                            What do they do now for medical care, pay it all out of pocket?  Do without?

                            This hypothetical family is now living without health insurance, according to you.  They are one serious injury, one appendectomy, one unscheduled pregnancy away from financial ruin.

                            If they buy health insurance they've got coverage for the big stuff and help paying for the smaller stuff.

                            If they have a big medical emergency/serious health problem they will end up owing that $4k to the hospital and doctor.  Or they will put in on plastic.  They'll make payments.

                            If you don't think that having the government help you make your insurance payment then you've never lived on a limited budget and tried to do the responsible thing for your family, provide them health care.

                            Right before I qualified for Medicare I was paying out more than 50% of my monthly budget for health insurance.  I would have been extremely happy if the Exchanges and subsidies were around when I was buying my insurance out of pocket....

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 07:48:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Net (0+ / 0-)

                            They pay payroll taxes so that leaves them, I had guessed earlier, $3000 a month. Some online payroll calculator I just checked said $2977.

                            Mortgage $1000-$1500 (including garbage/property taxes/homeowners insurance)
                            Food $800 (do they have teens or babies or ever want a pizza = more)
                            Gas/electric $250
                            Phones $100 (assuming they already got rid of the house phone)
                            Water $50 ($100 if sewer)
                            Gasoline/oil/car maintenance $250 (assuming 2 cars, $25 a week each for gas and the occasional repair, assuming no car payments)
                            Internet/cable TV $150 (yes, they need these -- they have two kids and never go out)
                            Clothing/school supplies/house repairs/kids' activities/lessons/etc. (all those things you can put off but eventually Timmy needs new sneakers) $200

                            I get $2800-$3300 so far and I'm probably forgetting some things -- these people are getting by but have no extra. They are, like you and I have done and continue to do, shopping sales, shopping Goodwill, doing without, scrimping on everything.

                            And now you want to suggest that another $192 a month is fine. Well, we can cut out -- what? TV? Piano lessons? OK, now we can pay the premium. If everything goes as planned -- like it always does. :) But, heck, we were broke before and now we are broke with health insurance.

                            Which we cannot afford to use. That ugly $4000 is staring us in the face every time we think of using the insurance.

                            I'm not saying it's nothing. I'm not saying these people couldn't, say, move to a small apartment, do without every other small grace they have in life and go into debt on their credit cards, if they have any (not included as an expense above if they do), but is that something to brag about?

                            I don't think so.

                            Nance

                          •  If someone needs... (0+ / 0-)

                            Cell phones and cable more than health insurance then they are making questionable judgments.

                            They're risking whatever equity they have in their home.  That's another questionable decision.

                            It seems that you're arguing that a family making $40,000 should be eligible for Medicaid.  Perhaps, but they are not.  They make about $9,000 too much.

                            You also seem to be damning the fact that these people can now buy health insurance for well under $200 per month, insurance which would have cost them $1,400 per month prior to PPACA.

                            Taking the price of health insurance down from $1,400 to well under $200 a month for this hypothetical family?

                            That's something that I can celebrate.  It's a very BFD....

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 08:11:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Car insurance (0+ / 0-)

                            That's what I forgot.

                            Yes, I am suggesting that this family should not have to live in a cave to have health coverage.

                            I don't think we should be suggesting this family is somehow immoral because they live and don't just exist.

                            But, one more note, if the family has been fortunate enough to live in a state that offers CHIP-type coverage for their children (available here for families of four making $44,000) and were providing for their children as you urge, they now have the lovely choice of giving up their children's (free or nearly so) healthcare and buying this family policy. Terrific!  

                            But, again, even if you think the worst of this family, that they could somehow cut back on everything and find the money to pay for the premiums but are wasting all that money on frills like having a phone, they still wouldn't have the $4000. They will never have that and that is the point.

                            If they borrow it on a credit card over the course of a year and pay the $100 here and $200 there, they will likely never reach that $4000 figure in any given year but will accumulate some lovely credit card bills.

                            Or they pay cash for some and only have to put some of the $4000 on a credit card -- great. But they are still, basically, paying for catastrophic coverage. Timmy breaks a leg, they are all set. After the first $4000. Timmy has a cold? Take him to the doctor or not? Probably not. Got that deductible -- money they have to pay. It's not exactly like having real health insurance but it's good in a big emergency.  

                            Maybe they should get Medicare. All they have to do is not get sick between now and then. Which is, actually, my plan.

                            Nance

                          •  Gee, I've got Medicare... (0+ / 0-)

                            I pay about $250 per month for my Medicare Part B and Supplement.

                            Medicare ain't no free ride.

                            And I agree that this family should not have to live in a cave in order to afford health care.

                            Sans cell phones, cable, that ain't cave style living.

                            As for taking little Timmy to the doctor when he gets sick.  Do you understand how deductibles work?  Do you realize that what they will have is a co-pay and that they don't have to pay the entire $4k before insurance helps them out?

                            Now, we might agree that somehow life ought to be made easier for this family, but that's a different issue.

                            The issue at hand is that prior to PPACA this family could not afford health insurance at $1,400 a month.  Now they can if they choose to cut out some other things in their life.

                            Now if little Timmy has to go to the doctor they won't have to fork out the entire cost, only a small percentage.
                             
                            A good thing has happened for them.

                            I'm surprised that you can't see that....

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 09:08:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm surprised too (0+ / 0-)

                            But in the other direction, of course.

                            The deductible that never quite adds up to $4K? Yes, I understand that that is only part of what the doctor's inflated bill would be -- of course he'll be charging the insurance price, not the cash price.

                            I'm sure you must be right and it will all work out. There will never be a month where this family doesn't have that extra. They will suddenly become the most frugal family around, embracing a Luddite lifestyle.

                            It will be just grand. Because we wouldn't want to charge these people what they can comfortably afford. Oh heavens no. How would they learn the tough lesson that we should all live right on the edge, fully stressed out all the time, barely covering expenses and doing without everything but the bare bones? That to feel at all safe and at ease about your life, to ever indulge in a pizza or a new pair of shoes or a phone is just too much for a family to expect to be able to afford by merely working full time.

                            Thanks?? I'm still not feeling it.

                            Nance

                          •  Oh, and the information I posted... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            foufou

                            You are welcome....

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:47:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You pretty much ignored everything he said (0+ / 0-)

                            and posted your insurance company talking points like a good boy.

                            You still either dont get it or are willfully (and for pay maybe?) ignoring it.

                            If you can barely pay the fucking rent being forced to pay a megacorporation who can charge you whateve the hell it wants could easily put you in the streets.

                            But from what ive read.. you just dont give a damn about those people.

                            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                            by cdreid on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:45:49 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

          •  What do you think? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            greeseyparrot, zedaker, rubine, cameoanne

            What do you think those 40,000 Americans who unnecessarily die each year because they can't afford health care vote would rather have, "this crap" or nothing?

            When most of the people i know are fighting tooth and nail to continue living indoors and in a couple years they will be required by law to buy insurance from the insurance corporations ripping us off. And if they dont they will be fined or jailed. Thats regardless of whether the insurance is actually useable. And im quite sure those insurance companies wouldnt repeat the 30 to 69% yearly increases they implemented this year. Theres no reason at all to believe a company whos customers are required at the barrel of a gun to buy their product would increase their fees radically. Theres no reason to believe those companies, who have never been punished for violating the law, would routinely find reasons to deny coverage or to charge outrageous hidden fees.

            Nearly 50 Million people unemployed. And you're cheering a plan to require all of them to pay a tithe to their corporate masters.

            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

            by cdreid on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:59:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  generous is single payer and 100% coverage (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aspe4, rubine, m00finsan

            PPACA is niggardly  and begrudging and corrupt with it's mandate to purchase private insurance.

            "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

            by zedaker on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:49:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sure, you're right... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              foufou

              Single payer, 100% coverage wasn't a choice this time around.  Zero chance of passing Congress.

              PPACA is a huge step forward.

              You'd rather we did nothing given that we couldn't do all?

              Which parts of the PPACA would you most willing give back?  The whole thing?

              Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

              by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:30:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry Bob (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GN1927, foufou

            But purity is more important than getting anything done!

            •  I'm sorry too... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Aexia, foufou

              I'm sorry that we've got people on our side, progressive/liberal people, who didn't get everything they wanted in this bill and now are so bitter that the hate the gains we made.

              I really don't understand what's wrong with them, so angry after all this time.

              It's not about what we didn't get.  It's about what we did accomplish and then what we need to work for next....

              Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

              by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:33:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  This isn't about... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cameoanne

            incrementalism vs the big enchilada, it is about the democratic leadership being so completely bought out and lame.

            I have no respect for any of them, including Obama.

            They had the opportunity to justifiably squash the repubs, instead they helped them to their feet, including having one of our war criminals (GW) gain stature by assisting Haiti.  What the fuck was that!

            Whatever their agenda is, it isn't serving their constituents or the people of this country.

            Corporate PACs, not just bribery but a lifestyle!

            by rubine on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:19:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The Internists disagree with you (10+ / 0-)

        WASHINGTON, April 7, 2010 -- “Rather than asking whether the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) does everything to improve access and lower costs, we should ask how it compares with the status quo,” the American College of Physicians’ (ACP) senior public policy adviser said in a paper published online today in Annals of Internal Medicine, the flagship journal of ACP. “By this measure, the PPACA is an extraordinary achievement.”

        http://www.acponline.org/...

      •  It's very counterproductive (8+ / 0-)

        to keep pretending that only ignorant or badly motivated people disagree with your analysis.

        Your credentials as a progressive are so great that Barbara Lee's comparison of health reform passage to passage of the voting rights act is invalid?

        Your credentials as a physician are so great that the ACP's characterization of the reform as an "extraordinary achievement" are invalid?

        A little humility would go a long way.

        •  I'd cut Dr SteveB a little slack (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aspe4, ezdidit

          He's right to be angry - he has to face the BS everyday, and he one of many kind, decent health professionals out there who went into medicine for all the right reasons.  He's right to be disappointed.  But he's on our side.

          The tragedy we have in this country is twofold: (1) we elected a man who is a born reconciler, and (2) we thought we won a decisive victory in 2008 rather than just one battle.  We were wrong - rightwing stupidity is far from dead.

          Obama, like many of us here on this site, mistook 2008 as a definitive victory.  But we reacted in very different ways.  While we wanted to step on the barbarian's throats, Obama wanted to reach out in victory and bring them back into the fold. We see how both tactics worked out.  We demanded a maximalist agenda on which Obama not only couldn't deliver, but that he decided to water down in a futile attempt at unity.  

          But honestly, our maximalist agenda had no chance with our current campaign finance laws favoring corporations and the fact that the Republicans can throw monkey wrenches in anything the President tries to do.  And Obama's tactic of reaching out is clearly a failure - the only question there is whether he can recover enough to campaign against them.

          So let's keep our eye on the target instead of turning on each other.  We're in a tragic situation, not helped by the chronic disunity of the left.  I see your point, and I see Dr. Steves, and I wish we would turn down the rhetoric we direct at each other.

          "Die Stimme der Vernuft ist leise." (The voice of reason is soft)

          by ivorybill on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 05:34:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't agree with your analysis but ... (4+ / 0-)

            Here's the problem for me. If people want to advocate for single payer, or better for an NIH type system, I'm in total sympathy. The system we have is terrible. But don't advocate for that goal by tearing down the only Democratic President we have and the only reforms we have won. It's absolutely true that the health care reform is flawed and grossly incomplete. But it does help millions of people and does start the process of regulation. Even if you disagree with that, you do not have to argue that the people on the other side, people ranging from Congresswoman Lee to President Obama to the ACP are venal, stupid, and/or ignorant to disagree with you. To win single payer, you have to persuade the public, not smear the Democratic Party for failing to do it for you.

      •  In all due respect, there are doctors on both (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yella dawg, foufou, ThisIsMyTime

        sides of the healthcare debate. Your personal experience certainly has validity, but there is no need to try and impugn the credibility of others just because they may not be doctors. We are discussing policy here not the science of medicine. Again there are doctors on both sides of this issue and many would certainly disagree with you. As the diarist points out, this bill has its positives, and I, for one, am happy it passed. Still, trying to improve it does not mean we have to tear down, or continuously slam this President, which many here are determind to do. A degree in medicine does not automatically equate to a degree in politics.  

    •  TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN! (18+ / 0-)

      Until then, we really are not getting very much at all.  Yes, you listed what we're getting.  No recissions (which really should have been illegal 100 years ago).  Lovely.

      Why on earth do most of the provisions not start until two thousand fourteen?  Very few people, apart from children who see more immediate benefits, will see any benefits until then.

      -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

      by neroden on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:04:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, it does require signifcant reoganization (9+ / 0-)

        from an industry that represents 20% of the economy.  I mean, yes the delay sucks, but I can at least understand that maybe such a massive law and new regulations would take a while to begin.  Bureaucracy moves painfully slow.

        In the span of history 4 years is really not any time at all.

      •  Should have been illegal 100 years ago (8+ / 0-)

        but weren't and now are.  That is progress, however slow and delayed.

      •  2014? (15+ / 0-)

        What the states said that they had to have.

        They claimed severe budget problems and needed time to set up brand new agencies/departments.

        And here's the provisions which start prior to 2014...

        2010
        NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS

           * Prohibiting Denying Coverage of Children Based on Pre-Existing Conditions. The new law includes new rules to prevent insurance companies from denying coverage to children under the age of 19 due to a pre-existing condition. Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010 for new plans and existing group plans.  
           * Prohibiting Insurance Companies from Rescinding Coverage.  In the past, insurance companies could search for an error, or other technical mistake, on a customer’s application and use this error to deny payment for services when he or she got sick. The new law makes this illegal. After media reports cited incidents of breast cancer patients losing coverage, insurance companies agreed to end this practice immediately. Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.  
           * Eliminating Lifetime Limits on Insurance Coverage. Under the new law, insurance companies will be prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits, like hospital stays.  Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.
           * Regulating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage.  Under the new law, insurance companies’ use of annual dollar limits on the amount of insurance coverage a patient may receive will be restricted for new plans in the individual market and all group plans. In 2014, the use of annual dollar limits on essential benefits like hospital stays will be banned for new plans in the individual market and all group plans. Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.
           * Appealing Insurance Company Decisions.  The law provides consumers with a way to appeal coverage determinations or claims to their insurance company, and establishes an external review process. Effective for new plans beginning on or after September 23, 2010.
           * Putting Information for Consumers Online. The law provides for an easy-to-use website where consumers can compare health insurance coverage options and pick the coverage that works for them. Effective July 1, 2010.

        IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

           * Providing Small Business Health Insurance Tax Credits.  Up to 4 million small businesses are eligible for tax credits to help them provide insurance benefits to their workers. The first phase of this provision provides a credit worth up to 35 percent of the employer’s contribution to the employees’ health insurance. Small non-profit organizations may receive up to a 25 percent credit. Effective now.
           * Offering Relief for 4 Million Seniors Who Hit the Medicare Prescription Drug "Donut Hole."  An estimated four million seniors will reach the gap in Medicare prescription drug coverage known as the "donut hole" this year.  Each such senior will receive a $250 rebate. First checks mailed in June, 2010, and will continue monthly throughout 2010 as seniors hit the coverage gap.
           * Providing Free Preventive Care.  All new plans must cover certain preventive services such as mammograms and colonoscopies without charging a deductible, co-pay or coinsurance. Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010. Learn more about preventive care benefits
           * Preventing Disease and Illness.  A new $15 billion Prevention and Public Health Fund will invest in proven prevention and public health programs that can help keep Americans healthy – from smoking cessation to combating obesity.  Funding begins in 2010.
           * Cracking Down on Health Care Fraud. Current efforts to fight fraud have returned more than $2.5 billion to the Medicare Trust Fund in fiscal year 2009 alone. The new law invests new resources and requires new screening procedures for health care providers to boost these efforts and reduce fraud and waste in Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP.  Many provisions effective now.

        INCREASING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE

           * Providing Access to Insurance for Uninsured Americans with Pre-Existing Conditions.  A new Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan will provide new coverage options to individuals who have been uninsured for at least six months because of a pre-existing condition. States have the option of running this new program in their state. If a state chooses not to do so, a plan will be established by the Department of Health and Human Services in that state.  National program effective July 1, 2010.
           * Extending Coverage for Young Adults.  Under the new law, young adults will be allowed to stay on their parents’ plan until they turn 26 years old (in the case of existing group health plans, this right does not apply if the young adult is offered insurance at work). While the provision takes effect in September, many insurance companies have already implemented this new practice. Check with your insurance company or employer to see if you qualify. Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23.
           * Expanding Coverage for Early Retirees.  Too often, Americans who retire without employer-sponsored insurance and before they are eligible for Medicare see their life savings disappear because of high rates in the individual market. To preserve employer coverage for early retirees until more affordable coverage is available through the new Exchanges by 2014, the new law creates a $5 billion program to provide needed financial help for employment-based plans to continue to provide valuable coverage to people who retire between the ages of 55 and 65, as well as their spouses and dependents. Applications for employers to participate in the program available June 1, 2010
           * Rebuilding the Primary Care Workforce.  To strengthen the availability of primary care, there are new incentives in the law to expand the number of primary care doctors, nurses and physician assistants. These include funding for scholarships and loan repayments for primary care doctors and nurses working in underserved areas. Doctors and nurses receiving payments made under any State loan repayment or loan forgiveness program intended to increase the availability of health care services in underserved or health professional shortage areas will not have to pay taxes on those payments.  Effective 2010 .
           * Holding Insurance Companies Accountable for Unreasonable Rate Hikes.  The law allows states that have, or plan to implement, measures that require insurance companies to justify their premium increases will be eligible for $250 million in new grants. Insurance companies with excessive or unjustified premium exchanges may not be able to participate in the new health insurance Exchanges in 2014.  Grants awarded beginning in 2010.
           * Allowing States to Cover More People on Medicaid.  States will be able to receive  federal matching funds for covering some additional low-income individuals and families under Medicaid for whom federal funds were not previously available. This will make it easier for states that choose to do so to cover more of their residents. Effective April 1, 2010.
           * Increasing Payments for Rural Health Care Providers.  Today, 68 percent of medically underserved communities across the nation are in rural areas. These communities often have trouble attracting and retaining medical professionals. The law provides increased payment to rural health care providers to help them continue to serve their communities.  Effective 2010.
           * Strengthening Community Health Centers.  The law includes new funding to support the construction of and expand services at community health centers, allowing these centers to serve some 20 million new patients across the country.  Effective 2010.

        Back to Top
        2011
        IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

           * Offering Prescription Drug Discounts. Seniors who reach the coverage gap will receive a 50 percent discount when buying Medicare Part D covered brand-name prescription drugs. Over the next ten years, seniors will receive additional savings on brand-name and generic drugs until the coverage gap is closed in 2020. Effective January 1, 2011. Download a brochure to learn more (PDF, 3.6 MB)
           * Providing Free Preventive Care for Seniors.  The law provides certain free preventive services, such as annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans for seniors on Medicare.  Effective January 1, 2011.
           * Improving Health Care Quality and Efficiency.  The law establishes a new Center for Medicare & Medicaid Innovation that will begin testing new ways of delivering care to patients. These methods are expected to improve the quality of care, and reduce the rate of growth in health care costs for Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Additionally, by January 1, 2011, HHS will submit a national strategy for quality improvement in health care, including by these programs.  Effective no later than January 1, 2011.
           * Improving Care for Seniors After They Leave the Hospital. The Community Care Transitions Program will help high risk Medicare beneficiaries who are hospitalized avoid unnecessary readmissions by coordinating care and connecting patients to services in their communities. Effective January 1, 2011.
           * Introducing New Innovations to Bring Down Costs.  The Independent Payment Advisory Board will begin operations to develop and submit proposals to Congress and the President aimed at  extending the life of the Medicare Trust Fund.  The Board is expected to focus on ways to target waste in the system, and recommend ways to reduce costs, improve health outcomes for patients, and expand access to high-quality care.  Administrative funding becomes available October 1, 2011.

        INCREASING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE

           * Increasing Access to Services at Home and in the Community.  The new Community First Choice Option allows States to offer home and community based services to disabled individuals through Medicaid rather than institutional care in nursing homes.  Effective beginning October 1, 2011.

        HOLDING INSURANCE COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE

           * Bringing Down Health Care Premiums.  To ensure premium dollars are spent primarily on health care, the new law generally requires that at least 85% of all premium dollars collected by insurance companies for large employer plans are spent on health care services and health care quality improvement.  For plans sold to individuals and small employers, at least 80% of the premium must be spent on benefits and quality improvement. If insurance companies do not meet these goals, because their administrative costs or profits are too high, they must provide rebates to consumers. The rebate program will begin January 1, 2011.
           * Addressing Overpayments to Big Insurance Companies and Strengthening Medicare Advantage.  Today, Medicare pays Medicare Advantage insurance companies over $1,000 more per person on average than is spent per person in Traditional Medicare. This results in increased premiums for all Medicare beneficiaries, including the 77 percent of beneficiaries who are not currently enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan. The new law levels the playing field by gradually eliminating this discrepancy.  People enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan will still receive all guaranteed Medicare benefits, and the law provides bonus payments to Medicare Advantage plans that provide high quality care.  Effective January 1, 2011. Download a brochure to learn more (PDF)

        Back to Top
        2012
        IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

           * Linking Payment to Quality Outcomes.  The law establishes a hospital Value-Based Purchasing program (VBP) in Traditional Medicare. This program offers financial incentives to hospitals to improve the quality of care. Hospital performance is required to be publicly reported, beginning with measures relating to heart attacks, heart failure, pneumonia, surgical care, health-care associated infections, and patients’ perception of care. Effective for payments for discharges occurring on or after October 1, 2012.
           * Encouraging Integrated Health Systems.  The new law provides incentives for physicians to join together to form "Accountable Care Organizations." These groups allow doctors to better coordinate patient care and improve the quality, help prevent disease and illness and reduce unnecessary hospital admissions. If Accountable Care Organizations provide high quality care and reduce costs to the health care system, they can keep some of the money that they have helped save. Effective January 1, 2012.
           * Reducing Paperwork and Administrative Costs.  Health care remains one of the few industries that relies on paper records. The new law will institute a series of changes to standardize billing and requires health plans to begin adopting and implementing rules for the secure, confidential, electronic exchange of health information. Using electronic health records will reduce paperwork and administrative burdens, cut costs, reduce medical errors and most importantly, improve the quality of care. First regulation effective October 1, 2012.
           * Understanding and Fighting Health Disparities. To help understand and reduce persistent health disparities, the law requires any ongoing or new Federal health program to collect and report racial, ethnic and language data. The Secretary of Health and Human Services will use this data to help identify and reduce disparities. Effective March 2012.

        INCREASING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE

           * Providing New, Voluntary Options for Long-Term Care Insurance.  The law creates a voluntary long-term care insurance program – called CLASS -- to provide cash benefits to adults who become disabled.  The Secretary shall designate a benefit plan no later than October 1, 2012.

        Back to Top
        2013
        IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

           * Improving Preventive Health Coverage.  To expand the number of Americans receiving preventive care, the law provides new funding to state Medicaid programs that choose to cover preventive services for patients at little or no cost.  Effective January 1, 2013.
           * Expanding Authority to Bundle Payments. The law establishes a national pilot program to encourage hospitals, doctors, and other providers to work together to improve the coordination and quality of patient care.  Under payment "bundling," hospitals, doctors, and providers are paid a flat rate for an episode of care rather than the current fragmented system where each service or test or bundles of items or services are billed separately to Medicare.  For example, instead of a surgical procedure generating multiple claims from multiple providers, the entire team is compensated with a "bundled" payment that provides incentives to deliver health care services more efficiently while maintaining or improving quality of care.  It aligns the incentives of those delivering care, and savings are shared between providers and the Medicare program.  Effective no later than January 1, 2013.

        INCREASING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE

           * Increasing Medicaid Payments for Primary Care Doctors.  As Medicaid programs and providers prepare to cover more patients in 2014, the Act requires states to pay primary care physicians no less than 100 percent of Medicare payment rates in 2013 and 2014 for primary care services. The increase is fully funded by the federal government. Effective January 1, 2013.
           * Providing Additional Funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program.  Under the new law, states will receive two more years of funding to continue coverage for children not eligible for Medicaid.  Effective October 1, 2013.

        Now I'm not sure how you use the word "much", but this seems like some much to me....

        Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

        by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:28:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And from 2014 on... (15+ / 0-)

          2014
          NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS

             * Prohibiting Discrimination Due to Pre-Existing Conditions or Gender. The law implements strong reforms that prohibit insurance companies from refusing to sell coverage or renew policies because of an individual’s pre-existing conditions. Also, in the individual and small group market, the law eliminates the ability of insurance companies to charge higher rates due to gender or health status. Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Eliminating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage.  The law prohibits new plans and existing group plans from imposing annual dollar limits on the amount of coverage an individual may receive.  Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Ensuring Coverage for Individuals Participating in Clinical Trials. Insurers will be prohibited from dropping or limiting coverage because an individual chooses to participate in a clinical trial.  Applies to all clinical trials that treat cancer or other life-threatening diseases.  Effective January 1, 2014.

          IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

             * Making Care More Affordable.  Tax credits to make it easier for the middle class to afford insurance will become available for people with incomes above 133 percent and below 400 percent of poverty ($43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of four in 2010) who are not eligible for or offered other affordable coverage.  These individuals may also qualify for reduced cost-sharing (e.g. copayments, coinsurance, and deductibles).  Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Establishing Health Insurance Exchanges.  Starting in 2014 if your employer doesn’t offer insurance, you will be able to buy insurance directly in an Exchange -- a new transparent and competitive insurance marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable and qualified health benefit plans.  Exchanges will offer you a choice of health plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards.  Starting in 2014, Members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able buy your insurance through Exchanges too. Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Increasing the Small Business Tax Credit.  The law implements the second phase of the small business tax credit for qualified small businesses and small non-profit organizations. In this phase, the credit is up to 50 percent of the employer’s contribution to provide health insurance for employees.  There is also up to a 35 percent credit for small non-profit organizations.  Effective January 1, 2014. Learn more.

          INCREASING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE

             * Increasing Access to Medicaid.  Americans who earn less than 133 percent of the poverty level (approximately $14,000 for an individual and $29,000 for a family of four) will be eligible to enroll in Medicaid. States will receive 100 percent federal funding for the first three years to support this expanded coverage, phasing to 90 percent federal funding in subsequent years. Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Promoting Individual Responsibility. Under the new law, most individuals who can afford it will be required to obtain basic health insurance coverage or pay a fee to help offset the costs of caring for uninsured Americans.  If affordable coverage is not available to an individual, he or she will be eligible for an exemption.  Effective January 1, 2014.
             * Ensuring Free Choice.  Workers meeting certain requirements who cannot afford the coverage provided by their employer may take whatever funds their employer might have contributed to their insurance and use these resources to help purchase a more affordable plan in the new health insurance Exchanges.  Effective January 1, 2014.

          Back to Top
          2015
          IMPROVING QUALITY AND LOWERING COSTS

             * Paying Physicians Based on Value Not Volume.  A new provision will tie physician payments to the quality of care they provide. Physicians will see their payments modified so that those who provide higher value care will receive higher payments than those who provide lower quality care.  Effective January 1, 2015.

          Just to be fair to 2014 and 1/1/2015....

          Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

          by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:31:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Rather than assertions (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink

          how about citing the section in the CFR where the benefits are created and then we can see how that will be funded and what regulatory management is brought to bear in assuring implementation.

          I'd argue that all of this is fungible and based on regulation that is subject to capture by the industry or administrative neglect.  Want to talk about how regulation in protecting our nation's health works, then start educating yourself.  Perhaps begin with Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulation and we will have a basis.

          Distrust of authority should be the first civic duty. - Norman Douglas

          by Fossil on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:40:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  HCR opponents are hilarious (14+ / 2-)

        First they complain that the bill does nothing for them. Then they complain that it doesn't do it quickly enough.

        •  straw man (15+ / 0-)

          First they complain that the bill does nothing for them.

          Hardly.  No one is saying that the health care bill does nothing whatsoever for consumers.  What is being pointed out is the obvious reality of the situation: the bill does nothing to address the source of the problem (lack of affordable care) while mandating tens of millions of Americans to buy said shitty insurance.

          The only exception are the free clinics, one of the most touted parts of the bill.  Aside from the funding for the clinics being pennies on the dollar compared to what the insurance industry will be taking, Bernie Sanders got the clinics into the bill by threatening to vote against the bill.

          A tactic that was met with pure poutrage when anyone else was suggesting it (i.e. Dennis Kucinich).

          ThAnswr "If the administration can't fight for it's friends, don't expect us to fight their enemies."

          by Uberbah on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:21:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Lies and blatant mischaracterization. (2+ / 3-)
          Recommended by:
          zedaker, ezdidit
          Hidden by:
          Aexia, GN1927, Skritchard

          No longer tolerated.  HR'd every time.

          They seem to believe that clapping louder will narrow the enthusiasm gap. It won't. - democracy inaction

          by Rick Aucoin on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:34:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Uprated for HR abuse first and second (6+ / 0-)

          I lost track of the many reason why this bill does not work for some in this community.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:55:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Kurdish proverb (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GN1927

          "When a cat wants to eat her kittens, she says they look like mice."

          We worked together to get Obama elected.  Maybe that was a mistake, maybe not.  But all we really can do is keep pushing the agenda forward in any way we know how. The HCR or HIR depending on your perspective is better than what we would have gotten from a Republican administration, and worse than what any of us wanted.  Can we agree on that much?  

          It's painful to see all the Democrats turning on each other precisely when I've never seen a crazier or more dangerous Republican Party in my 32 years as a voter.  

          "Die Stimme der Vernuft ist leise." (The voice of reason is soft)

          by ivorybill on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 05:43:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ivorybill, this is not representative (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ivorybill, blindyone, foufou

            of the Dem base.  If you examine the polling, President Obama is holding very steady with the base.

            What this is, IMO, is a media hit job.  The traditional media (and increasingly, the new media) is looking to score some GOP wins in the midterms to roll back some of these regulations.  The base at large is not buying this garbage; credulous consumers of media spin and sensationalism are another story.

    •  Tipped and Rec'd n/t (7+ / 0-)
    •  Ever hear of the "lemon program"? (0+ / 0-)

      With cars, if you get a new vehicle that wants to take you where you don't want to go (the ditch, the repair shop, etc) you have the right (before a limited time elapses) to get a working replacement, one that actually performs.  

      The trouble is, you've got explain and document why the original vehicle was a lemon.  You can't get a replacement just because you don't like the color.

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

      by nailbender on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:57:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and the car analogy holds: you point out many (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zedaker, m00finsan

        workable aspects of this "vehicle" for affordable health care, but like a car, a health program is a complex animal with dozens of critical systems.  If only three or four of the most critical of them are problematic, you've got a lemon.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

        by nailbender on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:06:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  amen to you. & there's NO "mandated coverage" (4+ / 0-)

      MORE (and better) Democrats can get 'er done!

      I like the path we're on. Enforcing PPACA's intents will still be a formidable job for Eliz. Fowler & Kathleen Sibelius.

      And can we please STOP the nonsense about so-called "mandated coverage?" There are no enforcement provisions, and no one who refuses to buy coverage will be prosecuted or penalized in any way! It's in the freaking law!
      Subtitle D, paragraph 1:

      No individual or employer shall be compelled to purchase coverage through the Exchange.

      ...'06, '08, and ...'10? 'It was a trifecta of the peoples' outrage against Republicanism!'

      by ezdidit on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:20:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent diary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ThisIsMyTime

      Once again, my apologies for discovering it late.  Thank you for saying plainly what needed to be said.  There is a fallacy going around that accepting and celebrating significant progress means that we are against further progress.  That's pure horeshit.

  •  'Progressives' hold the patent on how to (17+ / 0-)

    undermine their own causes.

    So, what did Obama do or didn't do today to piss you off ?

    by amk for obama on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:38:45 PM PDT

  •  It's Health Isurance Reform. (27+ / 0-)

    It just regulates how health insurance companies can do business.

    On the other hand, it mandates each and everyone of us must buy from those insurance companies.

    Which out of the two will the government's oversight erode with time?

    •  ....and there is nothing that will prevent them (9+ / 0-)

      from charging outrageous premiums.  

      "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

      by Sydserious on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:57:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually there is... (10+ / 0-)

        Do you want me to look it up for you or are you capable of looking it up yourself?

        (Hint: try the new government health care site.)

        Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

        by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:28:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not really... (15+ / 0-)

          http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/...

          Washington, DC —Consumer Watchdog and the Center for Media and Democracy today asked the Obama administration to investigate how the major for-profit health insurance companies are reducing their proportion of spending on health care in advance of health reform, even as premiums spike upward. In a letter to Health and Human Services chief Kathleen Sebelius, the groups compared insurers’ actions to those of credit card companies, which spiked annual interest rates last year in advance of new federal regulations that would curb corporate abuses.

          "Insurance companies appear to be making sure that when new federal rules for spending on health care kick in next year, they can keep their administrative bloat and profits intact," said Judy Dugan, research director of Consumer Watchdog.

          The groups noted in the letter that insurance companies are lobbying intensely to distort new rules meant to require increased medical spending—80% of premium dollars for individual and small group policies and 85% for large group policies. The insurers seek to redefine billions of dollars in overhead and administration expenses as health care. By cutting their medical ratio now, they can make room for the redefined overhead expenses next year and meet but not exceed the 80% to 85% minimums.

          We'll see how all that works out

          "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

          by Sydserious on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:39:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What you describe... (7+ / 0-)

            Won't fly.  It's already been dealt with in CA.  (Remember, this sort of fraudulent crap will be dealt with by state governments.)

              * Bringing Down Health Care Premiums.  To ensure premium dollars are spent primarily on health care, the new law generally requires that at least 85% of all premium dollars collected by insurance companies for large employer plans are spent on health care services and health care quality improvement.  For plans sold to individuals and small employers, at least 80% of the premium must be spent on benefits and quality improvement. If insurance companies do not meet these goals, because their administrative costs or profits are too high, they must provide rebates to consumers. The rebate program will begin January 1, 2011.

               * Holding Insurance Companies Accountable for Unreasonable Rate Hikes.  The law allows states that have, or plan to implement, measures that require insurance companies to justify their premium increases will be eligible for $250 million in new grants. Insurance companies with excessive or unjustified premium exchanges may not be able to participate in the new health insurance Exchanges in 2014.  Grants awarded beginning in 2010.

            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

            by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:46:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  LOL....leave it up to the states? Really??? nt (10+ / 0-)

              "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

              by Sydserious on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:49:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep, Syd... (7+ / 0-)

                That's how the Exchanges work.  At the state level.

                Now, I'll grant you, some states will be in the hands of Republicans and won't do jack about insurance companies ripping off their citizens.  Initially.

                But other states will be run by Democrats and insurance companies will get called on their shit.

                When rates between states start to diverge look for pressure on the Republican state politicians to fall in line....

                Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:53:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ironically, Calif. is a perfect contrary example (10+ / 0-)

                  to your supposition. After seeming to review and refuse rate increases for large insurers like Blue Cross and Aetna, California backed down and is allowing double digit increases for next year. BC will be raising rates for individual insurance holders by 14% - 20%. And most major insurers will be reducing the amount of coverage, even for their more expensive insurance.  In other states, insurers are pulling out altogether, leaving individuals with fewer and fewer options, and less and less coverage for more and more money.

                  This is the trajectory of the entire system. It ain't fixed, or even made better by the HIR bill: it's spiraling toward collapse, all the while enriching the thieves in the industry.  Nice Blue Dog "compromise" there, Obama.

                  [Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbrai

                  by Vtdblue on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:08:09 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The Exchanges do not go into effect... (6+ / 0-)

                    until 2014.  

                    What is going on now is not a part of the PPACA.

                    BTW, when I checked my area on the government health care site we will have about twice as many providers as previously.

                    Have you given thought to how attractive 20-25 million new customers will be?  That's 400,000 per state.  There are only three private corporations in the US with more than 400,000 employees.

                    This is a major chunk of new business coming to the market.  Companies are ramping up to get their share.

                    And, for the first time, individual purchasers are going to be able to easily shop rate and quality....

                    Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                    by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:13:34 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  By the time we get to 2014, the Repugs will have (0+ / 0-)

                      taken over the joint. People are suffering now, and insurance rates are skyrocketing and quality and coverage dropping like a stone. The Dems enacted a bill that will enrich the insurance companies NOW, and ensure that they'll maintain their profit margins after 2014. Of course there are more of them in certain sectors of the insurance market: There's gobs of money to be made.

                      But for those in the individual market, the eligible recipients before 2014 will find a hellish "2012" scenario.  And the eventual mandates will be resented like hell, in addition, further damaging the Democratic brand.

                      [Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbrai

                      by Vtdblue on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 10:24:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  I know how the exchanges work Bob. Pressure from (5+ / 0-)

                  where?

                  It all comes down to what they are allowed to count as "Health Care" and there is some mention in the law that they would be allowed to deduct federal and state taxes before the percentage of health is figured.

                  How screwed up is that?

                  This isn't over yet...and at this point, today and in two months at the election...there is nothing in place to keep premiums in line.  Most people will see their insurance increases in October....right before they vote.

                  This plan is not something to brag about.  It's a start but that is all.

                  "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

                  by Sydserious on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:13:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Check this diary... (7+ / 0-)

                    Deaniac has a much better handle on this than do I.

                    Link

                    I agree that increases in premiums now won't help in November, but that's the way that cookie crumbled.

                    It might be possible to use the increases to our advantage.  Say by making people very aware of what their premiums will be once 2014 gets here.  

                    Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                    by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:23:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Right before I became eligible for Medicare... (9+ / 0-)

                      I was paying around $850 a month for a so-so health insurance policy.  By now that policy would be over $1,000 per month.

                      I just checked what my premium would have been had the federal subsidy been in effect.

                      $132 per month.

                      A difference of $800+.  Eight hundred friggin' dollars more in my pocket.  Each month.

                      Now, if that sort of benefit can be explained to people we'll earn some cred....

                      Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                      by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:38:52 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Thanks for the link. I just don't think anyone (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BobTrips

                      can realistic expect people to get motivated about something happening 4 years from now.  People care about now.  We need something for people to be excited about now.

                      "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

                      by Sydserious on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:40:13 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I agree... (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Aexia, foufou, ThisIsMyTime, Imhotepsings

                        Of course a lot of the bill has already kicked in.  

                        I'm seeing (non-DK) stuff from people being helped by things like pre-existing condition coverage and keeping their older kids on the family policy.

                        It's too bad that the entire bill could not have been put in place immediately, but the states held up the Exchange part.

                        I expect we'll be hearing a lot about accomplishments as soon  as the fall campaign season gets going.  Rope-a-dope time is over.  Look for some serious slugging....

                        Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                        by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:04:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yup and the insurance companies (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sydserious

                          wont dare raise their rates on you. They wouldnt dare double their premiums.. because 2x 15% of $1000 is exactly the same as 2x15% of $2000 so why would they.
                          And all those people who havent had insurance because they couldnt afford it.. now that unemployment is so low and wages are going up so fast they can afford to pay the mandatory tithe. And those double digit yearly increases by the health insurance companies.. we wont be required to pay that the Gubmint will and we all know the gubmint creates money out of magical pixie dust.

                          You realy really really need to think for yourself and consider the effect of the mandate. Its why the insurance industry is still celebrating hcr.

                          And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                          by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:24:26 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Here in CA... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ThisIsMyTime

                            The state challenged purposed insurance premium hikes.

                            After review they allowed some of the increases to go through.

                            You might think that's because the government is in cahoots with the insurance companies.

                            I suspect that it's because the cost of health care continues to rise faster than any other part of our economy.  

                            We need to deal with the cost of health care and this bill has provisions to help bring the cost of health care down.

                            If you look at the large blocks of text I quoted from the government health care site you'll see lots of items aimed at making health care more affordable.  

                            ---

                            BTW, you might find this interesting.  

                            Just yesterday I heard a piece on the radio that said that now Medicare will pay for stop-smoking treatments.  Private insurance has been covering anti-smoking programs for years.

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:48:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And again you completely sidestep the issue (0+ / 0-)

                            so you know thats incredibly annoying. I know youre trying to be a positive supporter but damn just address our concerns.

                            Mandate. Trot out the 85% all your want. Taht just means they make the increases larger. And healthcare costs didnt go up 69% this year. They didnt go up 30% either.

                            Youre going to force my sister who can barely pay her rent to pay a tithe to the people who are f*cking people over on healthcare. And you dont get why we're not buying the bullshit?

                            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                            by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 09:14:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And your concern is? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ThisIsMyTime

                            That some people are struggling in this terrible economy and that they can't afford health care insurance?

                            OK, got that.

                            Are you ignoring the fact that those people who can't afford health insurance now are going without health insurance?  That those people who are risking everything they have, including their houses, and their credit ratings?

                            And often forgoing getting treatment before their condition gets really bad?  

                            And (~40,000 a year) dying?

                            And when the PPACA is in effect most will be able to afford health insurance for themselves and their families?

                            You get that?

                            Sure, it's not a perfect fix.  

                            Perfect Fix was not one of the options offered.  To think otherwise indicates a lack of understanding how the present Congress is constituted and how politics work.

                            We, the liberal/progressives, do not have 50%+ of the popular vote.  To get what we want means that we have to compromise, to settle for 'less than perfect' in order to make progress toward our goals.

                            That's the way we've moved this country from a place run totally by affluent white males to a place where women and minorities get their share of power.  We did not get there with one big piece of perfect legislation.  We got there, are getting there, one step at a time.

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 10:08:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ill try to make it simpler for you (0+ / 0-)

                            so maybe i can cut through the spin you have running through your head.

                            EVERY AMERICAN will be REQUIRED to pay whatever amount the insurance companies want at the barrel of a gun.

                            We have 16% unemployment. We have rampant homelessness. Most new jobs are barely above minimum wage. People cant pay their mortgages ,their rent, their light bills.

                            And you arer going to saddle them with another bill.. directly from the insurance companies.. for any amount those companies choose to charge.

                            But i guess from your perspective.. they are "necessary sacrifices"? That sure sounds a lot like the rationale of the insurance companies in denying claims and kicking people off their isnurance.

                            Personally i hope you personally experience the love of the insurance companies quickly. But then.. if i remember correctly.. you work for one.

                            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                            by cdreid on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:42:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  39%, 69% ask for... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ThisIsMyTime

                            The California Department of Insurance said Wednesday it approved a rate increase averaging about 14 percent for Anthem Blue Cross customers. The department also approved a nearly 19 percent increase for Blue Shield of California.

                            Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

                            by BobTrips on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 10:17:04 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow flat out lying now (0+ / 0-)

                            because spin is lying.

                            I just left working for an insurance company dipshit. The median increase this year for that company was 30%.

                            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                            by cdreid on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:38:48 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

        •  907-page .pdf summary link here: (0+ / 0-)

          ...'06, '08, and ...'10? 'It was a trifecta of the peoples' outrage against Republicanism!'

          by ezdidit on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:25:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Another great diary from you. (16+ / 0-)

    The HCR bill was incredibly beneficial to millions of Americans just due to the elimination of pre-existing conditions; extending coverage to age 26 for dependents; subsidies for lower and working class families to get Medicaid/purchase insurance; funding for community health clinics.

    •  Yes indeed! Imagine... (14+ / 0-)

      ...if we could spin the positive to our advantage, nothing could be impossible to achieve in the next 6 years but the gloom and doom is like a virus around here that we are not able to overcome it two months before the mid-term election. We shall see what this kind of attitude will get us post election.  

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:57:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's frightening how irrational so many kossacks (12+ / 0-)

        have become. The idea that things will get better if we lose the D majority (or even just shrink it a bit) is beyond absurd. It is not as though we do not know exactly what happens during periods of R control of Congress only this time it will be worse given how bat shit crazy the Republicans have become in the past couple of years. HCR is far from perfect (like every single federal law that has ever been enacted) so we should elect a Congress that will defund it or repeal important provisions???? That's real rational. One thing we can say with some certainty is that we will end up even further away from a single payer system or a robust public option if we move toward Republican control of Congress. .

        •  Spot on. More of a reason for us to speak in one (9+ / 0-)

          voice and register more voters to come out to support Democrats.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:39:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  i thougt single payer (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aexia, askew, virginislandsguy, alba, foufou

          would happen when howard dean looked up to the heavens and an angel floated down and made ben nelson and joe lieberman quiver in shame and voila .. it is a miracle.

          No Way, No How, No McCain (and where can I punch the next hippie - can't wait)

          by nerdngeek on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:55:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah - I always imagined Joe L was (5+ / 0-)

            secretly on my side and would forget his sordid past and vote for the PO if only President Obama was willing to yell really loudly at him first!!!

          •  Single payer was ready to happen. (0+ / 0-)

            Obama torpedoed it and the public option.

            64% of americans supported single payer. 64%. Obama could have eviscerated any bluedog who stood against it. Reid and Pelosi could have made their lives a living hell.

            Instead they pretended the insurance companies couldnt possibly raise rates at will. Declared a great victory and forgot to mention that every american will now pay a direct tax to big insurance.. or else.

            And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

            by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:27:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If only Obama had given a speech on (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, mallyroyal

            health care, we'd have passed single-payer.

            Apparently, Obama's voice can hypnotize even the most douchey conservative Democrat into becoming a DFH. A lot of people here honestly seem to think that.

            But I'm the one that's drank the Kool-Aid.

        •  It's frightening how irrational so many kossacks (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, accumbens, HoundDog, cybrestrike

          have become. The idea that things will get better if we just wish things would get better, and meanwhile scapegoat with strawman arguments the very progressives whose policy proposals would have prevented such a dismal state of Democratic politics in the first place.

          It's frightening how irrational so many kossacks (5+ / 0-)
          have become. The idea that things will get better if we lose the D majority (or even just shrink it a bit) is beyond absurd.

          Virtually without exception, this is a bullshit argument you all throw out there.  It has all the truthiness of a teabagger slogan.  No one here WANTS the Dems to lose (with rare exception); we're just predicting they will, and telling all y'all apologists it's because the Democratic and American electorate is disappointed in Obama's pro-corporate/Wall St./Bankster, anti-populist agenda.

          This electoral debacle ain't gonna occur because of a few cheetos eatin' progressive bloggers are critical of the conservaDems: It's going to happen because the American working class, and middle class, and unionists, and unemployed, etc., etc., are rightfully pissed off at Democratic rule.

          [Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbrai

          by Vtdblue on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:16:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  few things -- (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aexia, Imhotepsings
            1.  What is the measure of a loss?  I would say that maintaining control of congress is a win.  The Senate looks like we will keep it, the House seems up for grabs but there is still two months left and lots of seats in play.

            What is a loss?

            1.  I think "the Democratic and American electorate is disappointed in Obama's pro-corporate/Wall St./Bankster, anti-populist agenda." is probably a non-factor to the larger electorate.

            The GOP has effectively used race baiting, fear tactics, and misinformation to rally up enthusiasm among their base voters.  In most of America "corporatist" is not even a word, never the less the swear word that it is on dailykos and on other liberal circles. You also have more Dem held seats in play.

            Lets not forget, this is the same country that elected Dubya -- the same voters backed the Iraq war.  We are the same country with the same divides that we were in the Bush years.  Not much has changed as far as our core conflicts or political polarization.

            So, no, I don't think a democratic loss, however you define that, means that people are fed up with Obama's corporatism.  I think you would need to prove this was an issue that matters outside of a small % of voters that will vote overwhelmingly for Democrats anyway.

            •  Funny. You talk as if our majorities in Congress (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cdreid, askew

              got us what we wanted with no problems so if we lose a few, so what?  Given how much trouble it was to pass anything with the majorities we have, and loss in that majority is a loss.

              The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

              by accumbens on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:33:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  hardly a BS argument - the comments have been (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, foufou, mallyroyal, Imhotepsings

            revealing as to the agenda of many  on this site. .

            And you really think the nutters are disappointed in Obama's "pro-corporate/Wall St./Bankster, anti-populist agenda"??? Good one . .Why those are the same people who say Obama is a socialist because he interfered with the "free market" by enacting FRR. They may be pissed off at Dem rule but their reasons have nothing to do with those pretend arguments. You really think it's rational if you're a union guy to vote Republican??? Or if you're unemployed to pretend that the Rs are going to do somethings about the unemployment situation???

      •  its actually a cancer (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        foufou

        ..and its spreading .. you can nuke the fuckers but they will metastasize and reappear in more virulent form.

        No Way, No How, No McCain (and where can I punch the next hippie - can't wait)

        by nerdngeek on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:53:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Tipped and recced for getting it (16+ / 0-)

    I just had a huge conversation with someone who actually tried to tell me that criticism that didn't knock Democratic accomplishments was not legitimate criticism.

    Thanks for Demonstrating that there are people out there who know how to do it right.

    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

    by Whimsical on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:54:47 PM PDT

  •  Seriously (7+ / 0-)

    When that diary started I thought it was going to be constructive but it devolved into more of the same. Thanks for the link to the femlaw diary.. now there's some constructive action.

    Elect more and better democrats
    Obama did more for the public option than anyone here.

    by CornSyrupAwareness on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 08:57:28 PM PDT

  •  We have to make this work. (13+ / 0-)

    Or any further health care reform will be dead forever.

    You think any politician will touch health care reform if this dies, you're crazy.

    The last time we broke a president, we ended up with Reagan.

    by Bush Bites on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:01:01 PM PDT

    •  Exactly but (7+ / 0-)

      ...the thing is it has become about winning and losing. If you are set in your views and don't want to see things objectively when your ideas did not win, you tend to behold a grudge specially when you are divided by factions in one side demonizing the other for wanting to do what is possible. It becomes personal and counter productive to getting things done in the end and here we are going at it demonizing our own party leadership, our ideals and projecting defeat.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:11:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  True HCR has already died (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Angry White Democrat

      We got a bill that helps insurance companies more than it helps people who need affordable access to health care.

      After the bill passed the WH and Congress checked health care off the list and moved on. There has been zero movement to improve or expand what was passed and even worse, there has been no discussion of doing it either.

    •  Health care reform is already dead (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kindofblue

      Obama and the rest of the Democratic leaders have declared it over and they aren't going to revisit it. They got exactly the bill they wanted - one that forces everyone to give money to the private insurance companies without making substantial changes to the health care system. A few isolated progressive voices here and there have been calling for the bill to be improved--but we've seen how much attention this administration pays to progressives.

      There is no further health care reform. This bill is it.

  •  & how much would a single payer system reduce the (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cdreid, Pithy Cherub, bigchin, Fossil, Aviram

    deficit? & how much would the cost of medicine have been reduced if we could negotiate price as a national system like those crazy bolsheviks up north?
    the mandatory health insurance law of 2010 will set true universal health care back decades.

    Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues. The Gita 3.21

    by rasbobbo on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:05:41 PM PDT

    •  Perhaps some... (6+ / 0-)

      Perhaps not at all.

      There's nothing magic about "government run".  Government programs can be quite wasteful and very slow to respond to new realities.

      Obama quote count - "Hold my feet to the fire" (3) - "Help me work for a better America" (137) --- [Phony numbers, real message]

      by BobTrips on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:36:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  is there some dispute about the price of drugs (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cdreid, bigchin, Fossil

        in canada vs the price in the united states?
        is there an argument about the cost of administering medicare vs the administrative costs of private insurance?
        the for profit companies have been very quick indeed to respond to "new realities," they've been hiking their premiums.
        no, nothing magic at all about it. basic bottom line economics.

        Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues. The Gita 3.21

        by rasbobbo on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:05:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Bull, Bob. Single payer would have radically (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cdreid, wsexson, WisePiper

        reduced the costs across the system, and you know it. Notice how the CBO never did a cost-benefit analysis of single payer -- because there was never legislation to that end put forth by the Democratic leadership.

        Single payer, and to a lesser extent the Public Option, would have had a chance of reducing costs without radically compromising quality of care and levels of insurance. The current legislation does neither, and simply by dint of the continued, massive deterioration of the health care "system," health care delivery and affordability in this country will get worse and worse.

        [Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbrai

        by Vtdblue on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:24:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not necessarily. Single payer will be done (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      princss6, Imhotepsings

      state by state.
      Just like how the crazy bolsheviks up north did theirs.

  •  Bravo & Thank You TIMT (12+ / 0-)

    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official... ~Theodore Roosevelt

    by Pam from Calif on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:06:33 PM PDT

  •  If we don't talk about our successes (20+ / 0-)

    Nobody will.

    "An uprising of the reasonable is our only chance." - Keith Olbermann

    by Diogenes2008 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:10:14 PM PDT

  •  I am no longer young (23+ / 0-)

    and PPACA (Healthcare Reform), flawed as it is, was the most significant piece of socially progressive legislation in my lifetime.  

    I am old enough to remember 1993 and the failure of healthcare reform which killed the topic for a decade and a half.

    Obama got what he could; it is not perfect; it will need to change over time, but it is a massive victory for compassion and justice.

    It is appropriate to acknowledge and celebrate this achievement.  It is also necessary to do so, or it will be longer than a decade and a half before it can be improved upon.

  •  Anyone who thinks that (23+ / 0-)

    this country will ever get to single payer without going through this current bill as a step forward is not living anywhere near reality.

    If progressives can't extol the virtues of taking some steps forward, they won't get much else.

    I'd only make the point that HCR took one major step forward: enshrining the right to healthcare for all those in this country legally.

  •  Thank you! (16+ / 0-)

    perspective  -- we need to work toward single payer but this is an improvement
    a vitory and we should say so

    thanks YiMT

    "....while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." Eugene V. Debs

    by soothsayer99 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:31:33 PM PDT

  •  Right on! nt (4+ / 0-)

    "There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the faults of his feet." --Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

    by farrelad on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 09:35:16 PM PDT

  •  Single payer still needed to fix problems (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cdreid, Agathena, blueoasis

    since the Health Insurance Company Mandated Customer bill fixes none of the problems of US health care. US health care cost goes from 17% of GDP to 20% of GDP. Unsustainable so whatever might have happened in 2014 won't because there is no money for it.

    There is of course the $500B cut from Medicare but that makes things worse for coverage since primary MD's will not take Medicare patients due to low payy and Obama lowered it more.

    So costs up, coverage down, insurance costs uncontrolled.

    It simply doesn't fix a single problem.

    •  typical kossack progressive (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foufou, amk for obama

      Health Insurance Company Mandated Customer bill

      just give it up already

      Unsustainable so whatever might have happened in 2014 won't because there is no money for it.

      .. paid for over ten years

      500B cut from Medicare but that makes things worse for coverage since primary MD's will not take Medicare patients due to low payy and Obama lowered it more.

      you sound like one of those bozos writing on the politico comment boards .. so many things wrong ..where can one start.

      No Way, No How, No McCain (and where can I punch the next hippie - can't wait)

      by nerdngeek on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:03:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  without single payer (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cdreid, neroden, ShirleyG

      or some sort of public insurance option that anyone can buy into, the Democratic approach to healthcare fails because of costs.  The cost of healthcare itself is too high for lack of competition, there are too many layers between the consumer and the end product/service.

      Your world is black and white. I live in vibrant color.

      by lr3921 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:04:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can people quit with the 20%GDP nonsense? (5+ / 0-)

      Look- we are covering an additional 30-40million people. Of course the total cost is going to increase. What? did you think you could cover more people with fewer dollars?
      Knock it off with this idiotic right wing talking point already.

      •  You're requiring (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ShirleyG

        30-40 million more people to pay a tithe to the insurance companies you mean. And backing it up with government fines, jails and guns.

        And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

        by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:32:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  WRONG. No jail and no guns (0+ / 0-)

          knock it off with your ludicrous right wing talking points. Straight from the senate bill:

          SEC. 5000A(g)(2)

          (2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
          ‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
          ‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
          ‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
          ‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

          THERE IS NO PENALTY. Stop listening to Glenn Beck.

      •  US 20% of GDP is THE PROBLEM (0+ / 0-)

        That you need to apologize for the failure of Obamacare to fix THE PROBLEMS with US health by IGNORING the problems is also the problem.

        At 17% of GDP US health care system is not sustainable. Economy cannot support it. US industrial base cannot support it.  

        On top of that even though we spend twice as much to support a parasitic health insurance industry, the system fails to work. 45,000 die each because it is a failed system.  Millions more are disabled because they cannot get care in a timely way or not at all. Millions more are driven bankrupt. Nothing Obama did fixes any of that.

        US health care system is structurally unworkable and Obama simply poured another trillion into it and never addressed the problems.

        Public option would have BEGUN to address the problems as Obama noted during the campaign. He gave up on public option and that is when his job approval began to fall and his presidency began to fail.

        •  System fails mostly for the uninsured (0+ / 0-)

          Once you get them properly insured the system can function with proper oversight and proper rules (like the ban on recission, the ban on lifetime limits, and the ban on pre-existing condition being the most important ones).

          The other problems like defensive medicine and unnecessary tests and exorbitant end of life care, etc, etc do need to be addressed.But those issues are independent of whether the system is semi-private or single payer.

          •  US health care is bankrupting nation. (0+ / 0-)

            Destroying US industry by making it non-competitive, bankrupting millions who get sick (the insured).

            The uninsured simply pay with their lives, the nation pays in many ways, bankruptcy, inefficiency, economic loss, poor overall health care results vs world.

  •  it's true. there's only so much "shoulda, coulda" (3+ / 0-)

    that we can do here. Yeah, maybe a more robust bill would have not only been better policy, but better politics. After all, people judge government by results, not by how many bills get passed and with how many votes. But we don't have that bill.

    At this point, we have an imperfect bill that's done some good. So for the millions of people who haven't seen the good yet, we an try to highlight it and point it out. With two months to an election, it's the best we can do.

    this is still bigger than any candidate. this is generational.

    by danthrax on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:07:22 PM PDT

  •  I don't think most Americans want singer payer (3+ / 0-)

    I think even if they fully understood what it was, most Americans just wouldn't want it.

    ---
    Mr. Rogers taught us to be better than this.

    by VelvetElvis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 10:20:59 PM PDT

  •  Here is my point (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizen k, dvogel001, Imhotepsings

    If the public option or single-payer is ever going to become law, perceptions among Americans toward the role of government are going to have to significantly change. The fact is that both the public option and single-payer are nonstarters with about maybe 30-40% of the public. Until that 30-40$ falls to maybe 20%-30%, both the public option and single payer proposals will remain politically dead.

    The problem is that too many Americans fear both the public option and single-payer. In their worst nightmares they envision having to report to large, unfriendly Soviet-style buildings staffed with unfriendly bureaucrats whose only mission is to infringe upon the "doctor/patient relationship". They imagine having to spend hours in the waiting room after having had to wait fix months for the appointment. With the public option and single-payer the thought of "healthcare rationing", endless delays, and Kafkasesque bureaucracy drives their opposition.

    They also oppose both the public option and single-payer because they think their precious tax dollars will go to support "those people" at their expense. They believe they'll end up supporting a program which doesn't benefit them. So they also don't support it because they think it will benefit and reward those who lead unhealthy lifestyles, who will reap all the benefits, while those "who play by the rules" get nothing.

    If the public option or single payer is ever to come into reality a well-oiled messaging campaign addressing their concerns is going to have to significantly influence them to change their opinions on the issue. Otherwise both are likely to be dead for the forseeable future.

  •  a few quick comments (5+ / 0-)

    "It reduces the deficit" in and of itself is meaningless, and certainly doesn't mean the suffering of the people will be diminished.  It's a great selling point to try to convince the other side, whose thinking is limited in scope and depth, but that's about it.  I would rather have seen it blow the budget out of the water, personally, since that doesn't seem to be a problem for occupations and tax cuts.

    Just because you can purchase insurance does not mean you're insured in any meaningful way, especially when actuarial rates are at 60% for individual subscribers and 70% for exchange participants.

    We can, and will, continue to kid ourselves about this policy.  It was a great political win, after all, and I am grateful for that.  But it simply is not a substantive policy win, and the unintended blowback (in the form of a now disinterested congress and a suspicious public) may far outweigh any benefits, but we shall see (perhaps the political win will obviate this).

    The bottom line, for me, and I appreciate your efforts, don't get me wrong, is that the lack of cost controls and, unfortunately, the fact that it is nearly budget neutral mean, in the end, that the net suffering of the people will not diminish.  It simply can't with our current system and this policy in place.

  •  It Falls on It's Own (10+ / 0-)

    I will grant you everything good about the bill, which (IMHO) is quite a lot. But the problem is that it's STILL a bad bill. It's main provisions were conceived by The Heritage Foundation, promoted by Mitt Romney, and rely on undermining fundamental rights. That part of it is a bad bill and deserves to be knocked.

    It also makes no financial sense. It pushes a reported 30 million people into for-profit insurance, where the cost structure is too high, and it generates billions of dollars in profits for the very people we are fighting. If it gets fully implemented, we could see healthcare costs near 20% of GDP in the U.S., which compares unfavorably with every major country in the world.

    Democrats should have never passed this bill in its current form. There is nothing you or I like about this bill that required these hopelessly backward provisions. They are simply payola to the healthcare industry.

    The healthcare crisis will continue in this country until we have affordable, universal coverage. There's really only one way to get there, which is with some kind of single-payer plan. You have to reduce costs too much for other ideas to make it. The Republicans are completely hopeless because they don't even grasp the magnitude of the problem. Their odious solutions come in at about one tenth the cost reductions you'd need to get there. (This is a simple mathematical fact.)

    Democrats should continue to push for a single-payer system or even something better. The best system would be a publicly-funded system, one where the federal government simply pays for all essential healthcare out of income tax revenue. That would mean that everyone would pay a reasonable amount for the system and access would be free or very cheap. (It should probably have a minor co-pay to help determine what kinds of services people really need.)

    Our current healthcare system is not competitive on the world stage. We pay too much for it as a percentage of our economy and we generally force companies that would be exporting products pay higher healthcare costs while leaving many completely uncovered. Money in our system goes to pay rich people instead of paying to relieve suffering and prevent death. It is unsustainable, unjustifiable and unconscionable. PPACA, while it has many excellent parts (like community clinics and insurance reform), was a step backward. We should be knocking this plan at every chance we get.

    •  Excellent comment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cdreid, Liberal Thinking

      nt

    •  I wish people would get this through (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Liberal Thinking, cybrestrike

      their skulls.

      This was a Republican bill.

      It's the brainchild of Bob Dole, the Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney, and AHIP.

      I really don't see how it can possibly be seen as a progressive victory to see Democrats pass conservative policy. I also don't see why I should have any confidence that we'll be able to improve on it, gven that any improvements we want are going to be more progressive than what's been passed before.

      Formerly known as Jyrinx.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” ― Emma Goldman

      by Code Monkey on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 02:49:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What rights are undermined? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Imhotepsings

      Thanks.

      Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

      by Benintn on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:53:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your Right to Conduct Your Life (0+ / 0-)

        Let me ask you this: Would it be okay for me to demand at gunpoint that you buy healthcare insurance? Or, would you consider that an invasion of your privacy? If you would hesitate to allow me to make that decision for you, then isn't it undermining your rights for the government to do so? When you talk about the government doing something you are just talking about more people. If I got my friends together and we demanded you get insurance, would that make it more "right" because there were more of us? And, why would you let the folks in D.C. decide this for you but not me? At least I have your good at heart! Those folks invaded Iraq.

        How about a gun? Could the government require you to buy and learn how to use a gun in order to defend yourself? Suppose that Republicans decided that it would enhance public safety for each person in the country to own a gun and passed a law that said every person would be required to buy one. Is this a legitimate use of government power?

        If they want to use tax money to provide for essential healthcare, then I would be fine with that, provided that I had flexibility in what provider to choose to do the work. I could pay extra money (if I had it) to get additional services or maybe higher quality ones, to pay for the things that are not essential. This doesn't take away my right to make decisions on how to get healthcare, it just gives me additional options.

        But when they want me to pay money to a private entity for what is rightly a government service, that's simply too much. Why should I give that company money for profits, money that should rightly go to health care? Isn't that a way to confiscate my money and give it to someone else? I'm not getting anything in return for that money.

        And, BTW, this is not a power granted to Congress. There's no part of the Constitution that says that Congress can demand I buy from a private entity. (You will, of course, hear that the Commerce Clause gives them this power. Ask yourself if you are involved in commerce if you don't have healthcare insurance. You only become involved in commerce after you decide you want to buy and start looking for an insurer. Prior to that, you aren't involved in commerce, so how can the Commerce Clause apply?)

        On the flip side, the Constitution allows Congress to tax people and provide for their welfare. Why is that? I would suggest that it's because there is a fine line between operating a government and simply riding roughshod over people's rights.

  •  Thank you for this (9+ / 0-)

    diary. I think that is the point a lot of us are trying to make, you don't have to knock down every thing the President has achieved just in the name of "constructive criticism". Dems really are their own worst enemy. Obviously one can say this was an important step but we can improve and continue to make things better.. "Not this was a horrible bill and Obama has failed us" and this is what this site increasingly sounds like on a daily basis and frankly is quit annoying and self defeating. ugh.

    "Love the life you live. Live the life you love."- Bob Marley

    by sillycilla on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 11:17:58 PM PDT

  •  I want to work with people who want even (4+ / 0-)

    more to be done on HCR. I want to take what we have gotten and add to it.

    When I hear Republicans say "repeal HCR reform" it makes me mad. I get just as mad when I hear my friends on the left start trashing HCR reform.

    I understand the frustration they have. If the parts of HCR I wanted most had not passed, I would still be angry. I've got people I'm close to who will be helped tremendously by the parts I wanted desperately.

    I have also have met people who need help and will not be helped by HCR, at least until 2014. I want to get them some help. I want to be able to work with all my friends on the left to make HCR better.

    If more of us on both sides could find a way to respect each others opinions, we could work together. I think we do have some common goals that we could reach faster if we worked together.

    •  Amen to that. It is self defeating to hammer our (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Imhotepsings, We Won

      own accomplishment and not build on it. I feel your sentiment and hope our common goal will weigh in more in the next two months in helping to electing more democrats.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:10:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Single payer & the public option (3+ / 0-)

    There is a lot of confusion here regarding the two. A public option is a system whereby the government health insurance program competes side-by-side with the private insurers. Public Option enjoys good polling numbers with the american public.

    A single payer system is a system whereby everyone is compelled to pay for government health insurance. Just like public schools. It doesn't matter if your kids don't go there. It doesn't matter if you don't even have kids. You still pay for your local public schools through your taxes.

    It is not at all certain that the american public favors single payer or not. Here on DKos obviously almost everyone here supports single payer. But out there with the general public- it is a different story.

  •  Need to make sense.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fromer, foufou, ThisIsMyTime, Imhotepsings

    Not including Ben Nelson and Lieberman we have 57 Democrats in the Senate.

    Democrats are poised to lose seats in both the House and Senate due to Democratic voter apathy, and we're talking about passing single payer?

    How does losing control of the lower house of congress, and a shrinking majority in the upper chamber translate into "Single Payer?"

    Call me crazy, but let's put the horse before the cart. Elect Democrats. Keep the gavel in Pelosi's hand. Then let's talk about Single Payer.

    Single Payer won't make it out of a GOP congress.

    And if the Democratic party is spurned this November after passing the HCR bill? Count on the Dems avoiding Health Care Reform like the plague the next time they do control congress. Call it "Clinton 2nd Term Effect."

    The GOP wins back the House? Meet the new Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security: Rep. Louie "Terror Babies" Gohmert

    by Darnell From LA on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:11:30 AM PDT

    •  Its hard to elect democrats (6+ / 0-)

      when the average citizen sees you as weak and in the pocket of big business. Thats not an "attack" its' the reality. Why do you think Obamas ratings are so dismal. Why do you think the gop thinks they may take the house and possibly the senate after the worst republican administration in history? Why do you think Pelosi, who actually fought hard for everythign the people and progressives actually want is still being castigated.

      The average person sees the people in power right now as not giving a flying damn about anything but corporate contributions and avoiding upsetting the right and big business. And they need a fucking job.

      And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

      by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 12:37:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the economy... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aexia, foufou, Imhotepsings

        There's no magic bullet. Obama's approval isn't dismal, but actually better than Reagan's and Clinton's and the same point in their terms.

        And at this point with 57 votes in the Senate (not including Nelson and Lieberman) it's not like the Dems can pass another stimulus.

        I don't think there is a rational scenario in this economy in which Obama's approval would be much higher and Dems not losing some seats this November. History bears this out.

        The GOP wins back the House? Meet the new Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security: Rep. Louie "Terror Babies" Gohmert

        by Darnell From LA on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 01:06:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would say, it is time for us then to get to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Imhotepsings

          work...register new voters, make some calls, canvass to GOTV, etc.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:07:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  good christ on toast... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, m00finsan

          ....it TAKES 51 FUCKING VOTES TO PASS SOMETHING IN THE SENATE.

          FIFTY FUCKING ONE.

          got it?

          this "60 to pass" bullshit is a right wing coup against democracy, and your spreading the meme on dailykos.

          yeesh.

          The bear and the rabbit will never agree on how dangerous a dog is.

          by fromer on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:37:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're Misinformed... (0+ / 0-)

            51 votes can be employed only during reconciliation. And that can only take place when dealing with legislation that reduces the deficit.

            Otherwise you have the Filibuster. I'm all for reforming the Filibuster, but as of now the REALITY of the situation is that it takes 60 votes to overcome the GOP's obstructionist tactics.

            The GOP wins back the House? Meet the new Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security: Rep. Louie "Terror Babies" Gohmert

            by Darnell From LA on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 05:36:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  NO. (0+ / 0-)

          Its not. Not in the way you think.

          People do NOT blame Obama for the economy he was handed. That is actually what the poll data shows.

          People DO blame obama for not doing anything about it.

          This is what the average person sees :
          "Obama fought tooth and nail to bail out the banks!"
          (He actually didnt that was the dem congress though you can be sure he pushed them. He does bear fault for who he put in charge of it).
          "But he doesnt seem to give a damn about the workers".
          At which point you yell "stimulus!". And the 16% who are unemployed say "what did that do for me?? noone hired me. A bunch of money went to a bunch of companies for whatever.. how did that help me??"

          Obama needs to come out pushing hard for something that will directly help the working class and FAST or a: we're going to get reamed in this election and b: he's going to be a one term president if the gop can find one non-wingnut to put up.

          That isnt "attacking obama".. that is political reality. He campaigned on hope and change. He either lives up to it or we are going to get crushed.

          And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

          by cdreid on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 06:43:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Does the average american actually think the GOP (4+ / 0-)

        is going to get them a job?  I understand the anger and frustration.  I do not understand voting for someone who stands against you day in and day out, wants to privatize your social security, kick you off unemployment, call you lazy because you can't find a job in this environment and was part of the problem that led to this situation in the first place.

        I mean really?  America-thick as a plank.

        ONE DOLLAR, ONE VOTE! - Supreme Court of the United States. Amend the constitution! Corporations are NOT people!! Money is NOT speech!

        by Back In Blue on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 01:22:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It doesnt matter (0+ / 0-)

          "what they understand".

          I guess we could tell them "i told you so idiots" if they vote in republicans. Hell ive been doing it since they (and a lot of idiot socalled democrats) signed on with the reagan treason.

          What matters is what they see...

          And what they see is a president whos doing a lot of what bush was doing on foreign policy, who is big on bailing out the banks (In truth that was the democratic party), who is pulling a bush/hover and telling them "just wait its all gonna be ok" while they lose everything and wonder where the hell theyre gonna get food for their kids.

          And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

          by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:14:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  what they see or what you see? (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not saying 'I told you so idiots'.  It hasn't happened yet.  But if people vote for politicians who plainly tell people that they are going to pull what's left of the rug out from under their feet, or support the party that's going to do that, then they are idiots.

            ONE DOLLAR, ONE VOTE! - Supreme Court of the United States. Amend the constitution! Corporations are NOT people!! Money is NOT speech!

            by Back In Blue on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:52:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So, what are you going to do about it? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blindyone, Imhotepsings

        Are you going to believe the non stop spin machine or are you going to talk about the many good things that will allow people to understand the good this administration has done? I understand that we are going to either contribute by being part of the 24/7 misinformation echo chamber or shape the message to change the misinformation?

        Further, I don't see the average person thinking Dems to not giving a damn. In fact, they score high when compared against Republican's.

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:03:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ya cuz (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          megisi

          regardless of whether i think this administration is incompetant .. i should cheer this administration. Because the cheering will make thigns all better. Because what we really need are more Potiempkin villages. Cause that worked so well for the republicans.

          Tell me this .. when are you goign to stop attacking democrats .. lifelong hardcore democrats and progressives who actually HAVE made a difference.. and start holding this administration and congress to account? This isnt a sport. This is the lives of 350 million americans.

          And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

          by cdreid on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:16:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yep...we can build on what we have but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Imhotepsings

      embracing defeat is pretty much being part of the problem.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:53:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Your last paragraph (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, m00finsan

      And if the Democratic party is spurned this November after passing the HCR bill? Count on the Dems avoiding Health Care Reform like the plague the next time they do control congress. Call it "Clinton 2nd Term Effect."

      Is why we had one, and only one shot at actual reform in the near future, and why all the comments about using the current bill as a 'base' were pointless for the next decade or two minimum.  What we got is all we're getting at the federal level for the next 15-20 years, so it's up to the states now.

      Note to self: Quit insulting people. Note to others: If I insult you, please remind me that I'm trying to stop doing that.

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:32:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can't pretend the HCR bill didn't piss me off (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fromer, m00finsan, Code Monkey

    And it wasn't just the "sausage-making."  If you told me in 2008 that's what Dems would pass I'd have been completely uninterested.  Half the benefits you cite of the package will be moot when the industry captures the regulators...as will inevitably happen.  We need structural change in how health care is paid for and the only way this will get us there is if it fails and we're lucky enough to have the public blame the insurance industry and not Democrats.  Not bloody likely.

    •  Structural change starts somewhere and we are (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aexia, citizen k, Imhotepsings

      on the track. We are not off the track. Hereare specifics on some of the biggest money raisers:

      Higher Medicare taxes on rich people

      If you are an individual making more than $200,000 a year, or a married couple making more than $250,000 a year, get ready to pay more for your Medicare if health care reform passes.

      First of all, your Medicare Part A (that’s hospital insurance) tax rate would be increased by 0.9 percent, to 2.35 percent. Second, the bill creates an entirely new tax of 3.8 percent on unearned income (dividends, interest, stuff like that) for people in those same income brackets.

      The good news is that this would not take effect until Jan. 1, 2013. And it is a big money raiser, truth be told. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates this would bring in $210 billion between 2013 and 2019.

      New tax on expensive health insurance

      They used to call this the "Cadillac tax," but it’s been pared back enough so it might better be called the "Chevy with leather and A/C" tax.

      The health care bill would impose an excise tax on insurers of employer-sponsored health plans that cost more than $10,200 annually for individual coverage, or $27,500 annually for family coverage. The tax in question would be 40 percent of the cost of the plan that exceeds those dollar thresholds.

      This tax would not kick in until 2018. The JCT figures it would bring in around $32 billion in its first two years.

      Fees on health care industries

      The Obama administration figures it is only fair to slap some fees on health care industries, since they’d be getting lots of new customers if health care reform passes. So after negotiations with some big sectors, the White House struck a number of deals.

         * Drug manufacturers would pay the US a total of $16 billion between 2011 and 2019.
         * Health insurers would pay $47 billion over the same period.
         * Medical device manufacturers would pay a 2.9 percent excise tax on the sale of any of their wares, beginning Jan. 1, 2013.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:50:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What Obama's done (10+ / 0-)
    1. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
    1. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
    1. Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women
    1. Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
    1. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

    6 Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information

    1. Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier’s family
    1. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act
    1. Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
    1. Limits on lobbyist’s access to the White House
    1. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
    1. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
    1. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren’t even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
    1. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
    1. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
    1. New federal funding for science and research labs
    1. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
    1. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
    1. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
    1. New funds for school construction

    21 The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out

    1. US Auto industry rescue plan
    1. Housing rescue plan
    1. $789 billion economic stimulus plan
    1. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
    1. US financial and banking rescue plan
    1. The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
    1. Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with theGeneva Convention standards
    1. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
    1. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
    1. Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
    1. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
    1. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
    1. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office
    1. Successful release of US captain held bySomali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job
    1. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
    1. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
    1. Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
    1. Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
    1. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
    1. Signed national service legislation; expandednational youth service program
    1. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
    1. Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
    1. Expanding vaccination programs
    1. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
    1. Closed offshore tax safe havens
    1. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
    1. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back

    49.. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices

    1. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
    1. Lower drug costs for seniors
    1. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
    1. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
    1. Improved housing for military personnel
    1. Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
    1. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals

    57 Increasing student loans

    1. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program
    1. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
    1. Established a new cyber security office
    1. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
    1. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
    1. Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness
    1. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
    1. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced
    1. Improving benefits for veterans
    1. Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration
    1. Instituted a new focus on mortgage fraud
    1. The FDA is now regulating tobacco
    1. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
    1. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
    1. Authorized discussions with North Korea and private mission by Pres. Bill Clinton to secure the release of two Americans held in prisons
    1. Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Web to secure the release of an American held captive
    1. Making more loans available to small businesses
    1. Established independent commission to make recommendations on slowing the costs of Medicare
    1. Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
    1. Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans
    1. Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
    1. Renewed loan guarantees for Israel
    1. Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan
    1. Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan
    1. New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans
    1. Announced the long-term development of a national energy grid with renewable sources and cleaner, efficient energy production
    1. Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters
    1. Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of his own pocket
    1. Held first Seder in White House
    1. Attempting to reform the nation’s healthcare system which is the most expensive in the world yet leaves almost 50 million without health insurance and millions more under insured
    1. Has put the ball in play for comprehensive immigration reform
    1. Has announced his intention to push for energy reform
    1. Has announced his intention to push for education reform
    1. The Matthew Shepard Act, officially the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, is an Act of Congress, passed on October 22, 2009
  •  This is why no one wants to talk about HCR. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama, ThisIsMyTime

    We can't take the good with the bad and try to make things better.  We're democrats, why would anyone want to vote for this?

    ONE DOLLAR, ONE VOTE! - Supreme Court of the United States. Amend the constitution! Corporations are NOT people!! Money is NOT speech!

    by Back In Blue on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 01:27:32 AM PDT

  •  The health care bill sucks.... (10+ / 0-)

    We knock it because it sucks..........   It is expanded medicaid, not universal health care.  It is universal health care premiums.  

    If he claimed it was an expanded medicaid/corporate welfare bill, he would have a winner.    He didn't. He put everyone through all of the bullshit just so he could call it "historical" reform.  People are disappointed in him because he is a disappointment.  He isn't fighting and losing, it is his WH that is undermining every damned piece of "historical" legislation this man signs.   From health care to WS reforms, his WH is undermining them all.  

    Don't tax the rich, starve the poor.

    by dkmich on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 02:53:16 AM PDT

  •  Nobody knocked the HCR bill... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fromer, cybrestrike, m00finsan

    because that bill doesn't exist.

    Though, I did see fair and accurate criticisms of the HIR bill...

    More and Better Democrats

    by SJerseyIndy on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 03:44:11 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for the link. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ThisIsMyTime, m00finsan

    I hadn't read the Bill Moyers diary, because the title was so uninformative as to the contents.  Taking your link, I saw that it was worth reading.

    Note to self: Quit insulting people. Note to others: If I insult you, please remind me that I'm trying to stop doing that.

    by Ezekial 23 20 on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:22:07 AM PDT

  •  I;m just SO PROUD... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, snoopydawg, m00finsan

    ...that after 18 months of a Democratic Presidency, A Democratic Senate (we still had 60 through most of last year, counting of course the despicable Ben Nelson) and a Democratic House....

    ....I'm being told a tenth of a loaf is better than nothing.

    Well, DUH.

    But a tenth of a loaf still leaves me starving, just a little more slowly.

    2014 better get here quick.  $1200 a month for insurance in NOT change I can believe in.

    HCR benefited the Insurance companies, entrenching their corrupt role in a rotting system.  It didn't REFORM anything.  It simple allows more people to feed the beast.

    The bear and the rabbit will never agree on how dangerous a dog is.

    by fromer on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:31:20 AM PDT

    •  I think the fallacy of the insurance paradigm (0+ / 0-)

      has been fully exposed by now, don't you? And we're only six months into its passage.

      The flaws in this half-assed, compromised and bullshit HIR are more of a statement of intent than a law with teeth. A modicum of thought regarding how the individual is treated and a yard and a half of insurance regulation, cans and can't-do's.

      Meanmwhile, 48,680 people will die this year, next year and the year after, and I kinda think the President has blood on his hands - and he knows it, too.

      And we're only six months into it....THAT is progress. Sloooow progress, but it's progress just the same.

      ...'06, '08, and ...'10? 'It was a trifecta of the peoples' outrage against Republicanism!'

      by ezdidit on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:46:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent diary TIMT (9+ / 0-)

    You know as well as I do that anything that Dems do is going to be spun by some people as horrible.  Thank you for presenting the facts.  Enthusiastic tip and rec.

  •  Republicans have these big plans>>> (6+ / 0-)

    Dick Morris laid out another part of it last week.

    First, they'll shut down the government when Obama vetoes the budget.

    Then they'll pass a new bankruptcy law and bankrupt the states so they can void all their pensions and union contracts.

    Hey, that's their plan, jus' sayin'...I really don't know why people would vote Republican at all. But I'm no pundit.

    And if youngsters think this doesn't affect them (18 to 29 year olds) then they can kiss my sorry ass if they don't show up and vote D all the way down the line. When Social Security evaporates when they get onto 65, it'll be too late to vote! This election is about them, not me.

    ...'06, '08, and ...'10? 'It was a trifecta of the peoples' outrage against Republicanism!'

    by ezdidit on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:35:23 AM PDT

  •  Yes I do, yes I do (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, papicek, m00finsan

    For one reason. The administration never made the case for HCR by citing the facts and studies that are out there on the issue. The administration could have started out with a rational system (pick any European system all different and all fairly rational) and then compromised from that position. Rather, they never promoted the facts, and never educated the American people that a round wheel rational HC system can be developed and that a square wheel system that will cost more than twice what rational HC systems cost is not the way to go.

    I don't believe the  BS that it was the best we could get. I believe we got what we got because of massive corruption in the administration and Congress. Look, please at the systems around the world almost all are rational. The HCR legislation we passed is irrational, makes no sense as a system and does nothing to lower costs thus is easily attacked by the right. No wonder the American people have no respect for the left.

  •  I say you are right. Thank you. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blindyone, ThisIsMyTime, Eclectablog

    Good diary.

    Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

    by Benintn on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:52:04 AM PDT

  •  Amen Brother/Sister! (5+ / 0-)

    Even the most ardent supporters of the HCR law did not, and are not saying "Done, best we can do, health care/insurance reform is complete."

    We all agree that more has to be done, and that single payer remains the goal.  There is still substantial support in Congress for a Public Option, and if we can maintain a majority in both Houses and tweek the Senate rules on filibusters, we stand a chance of getting a Public Option bill passed in the next Congress.  

    The Public Option, or as I like to refer to it, "Single Payer-Lite", is the foot in the door we need to get to full single payer.  Once we allow the option of government insurance even for a small group of individuals, with its non-profit lower rates and its medicare-like no obstacles efficiency in delivering care, people will be sreaming on-mass to be let in to the government system.  Why am I so sure that would happen?  Why do you think that above all else the private insurance industry pulled out all the stops in the HCR battle to stop it?

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:55:44 AM PDT

  •  This is outstanding diary. thanks. (10+ / 0-)
    I wish more people realized they don't have to kick the HCR bill in order to advocate to improve it. Kicking the President for the accomplishment not only ignores political realities at the time but plays into Republican hands - they use what we say against it to discredit it..

    "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" - Dorothy Day

    by joedemocrat on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 04:59:32 AM PDT

  •  Tipped and rec'ed (7+ / 0-)

    great work as always - am running out the door in a few, so can't stay to comment but you are always right on Time  dear brother.

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 05:54:53 AM PDT

  •  I am not interested in the defenses of this bill. (4+ / 0-)

    What I am interested is in the facts on the ground that I see.

    Any bill was going to help certain people.  However, I had health insurance, I now have none, because my premium immediately skyrocketed into the stratosphere and this is now more than I can afford to pay.

    I am now medically indigent.  Whether this was a response of health insurance companies taking advantage of the HIR bill, or whether it was simply going to happen anyway, I don't know or care.

    And, yes, I have looked into the measures out there that are supposed to correct for this -- they don't apply to me.

    Health insurance and health care as an issue is a spiraling increasing disaster for me personally.

    "When in doubt, be ruthless" - Ferengi saying (-6.62, -6.26)

    by AndyS In Colorado on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 05:56:58 AM PDT

  •  My girlfirend finally has health insurance (5+ / 0-)

    Thanks to the the passage of the HCR bill. She's been without insurance ever since a car accident over two years ago. She lost her job due to the disability and lost her insurance. No insurance company would cover her until now.

    Thank you Mr. President, and thank you congressional Democrats. Now make it better!

    •  Not according to the bill (0+ / 0-)

      She can't get covered until 2014, or is that what you meant?

      I offer 35 years experience advocating for Canadian Healthcare and eliminating the Pentagon, will someone on the Professional Left please hire me?

      by Indiana Bob on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 07:14:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  PCIP (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal

        The Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan is in place now and covers people with pre-existing conditions until the new rules go into effect in 2014.

        The plan for us in Florida is administered by the Department of Health and Human Services, since Florida opted-out of administering its on high-risk health insurance pool.

    •  That is what we need. We need to hear this and (0+ / 0-)

      more. If you can, write a diary about it to show what is working to the many who are always pessimistic just about anything good.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 07:15:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One small step in the right direction (3+ / 0-)

    Given the corporate money in Washington and a media in the pocket of insurers, I'd say we did pretty well for a first start at reforming the system.

    I heard one pundit say that Medicare was pretty awful when it was first enacted, but that it was improved over time with revisions to the original bill.

    We're not done.

    Change TX-32, Change the Nation. Send Democrat Grier Raggio to Congress.

    by CoolOnion on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:15:01 AM PDT

  •  wrong here... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, m00finsan

    The HCR Bill passed will enable many without access to have health insurance

    The point is, it won't. Not unless they can afford it.

    Let me finish reading . . . .

    What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

    by papicek on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:16:52 AM PDT

    •  looked at what you had... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, m00finsan

      listed under "More short term benefit:" and here's my problem with that, it's a miserably short list that makes healthcare more expensive. You want to design a system, then keep it simple. Simple systems work.

      Simple is also what you can campaign on. You CANNOT campaign on "no lifetime caps!!!!"

      Ed Rendell says we need to "get the word out" on this. Others say the same. You are about to find out just how ineffective this is going to be.

      What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

      by papicek on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:30:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pick and choose and there are many things we (0+ / 0-)

        can campaign on. The thing is you are interested in focusing on the imperfection rather than take those "miserable short list" and frame it to mean something that did not mean prior to the passage of the HCR Bill. Getting the word out would help if you participate in it.

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:51:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Liz Fowler thinks ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    papicek, m00finsan

    ... you're swell. Carry that water!

    •  Hummmmmm......your argument does not hold water! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aexia

      Healthcare Reform Conspiracy! Why the Left Is Irrationally Riled by Liz Fowler

      The problem with the left-leaning media, both during the reform debate and afterward, is that they let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Forget the fact that the Obama Administration finally pushed through healthcare reform after a century of failed attempts; ignore the fact that no bill that contained a public option would have passed. The way these folks see it, any legislation that benefits insurance companies and requires Americans to buy their products must be bad. If this sounds familiar, it’s because it’s the same line that Republicans and Tea Partiers have been pushing, with the 20 states that have sued the federal government as their proxies.

      snip

      So how has Liz Fowler stirred up this political mess even further? Well, to start with, her appointment has fed the conspiracy theorists in the blogosphere a sumptuous meal. David Sirota of Open Left, after citing "the insidious role [Fowler] played in killing the public option," writes:

      Clearly, [Fowler's appointment] is a telling indictment of the health care law itself, strongly suggesting that it was constructed by the Obama administration — as some progressives argued — as a massive taxpayer-financed giveaway to private insurers like Wellpoint. And let’s be honest: In investment terms, Fowler has been a jackpot for the health industry.

      Here are two examples of guilt by association rolled into one: First, Fowler was a mole whom WellPoint planted in Congress to achieve its nefarious goals, and second, simply by having been on the insurer’s payroll for a period of time, Fowler was bound to carry out its orders in her work for Baucus. Not only is this an insult to Fowler, but it also insults the Senate Finance Committee, which did most of the heavy lifting that resulted in the Affordable Care Act. While Fowler did influence the final product, there was a great deal of input from all of the committee members, both Democratic and Republican.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:46:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with Sirota (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slinkerwink, megisi, m00finsan

        Fowler has indeed been a mole.  Remember Bush's Prescription Drug bill that we all hated so much?  Who brags about that?  Liz Fowler.

        Remember all of the breathless screaming on this site about the "revolving door" between government service and the private sector?  Who is doing that now?  Liz Fowler.  It's like watching a ping pong game as she goes back and forth.

        Your post basically calls critics CT-ers but offers no evidence that the criticism has no merit.

        I offer 35 years experience advocating for Canadian Healthcare and eliminating the Pentagon, will someone on the Professional Left please hire me?

        by Indiana Bob on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 07:11:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You write well ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... when you "borrow" the words of professionals, even if their arguments are garbage.

        Anything original under that lid?

        •  I have yet to see your rec listed diaries with (0+ / 0-)

          your superior intellect and all. At least I have sent the 7 out of my last 11 diaries to the list. How about you? Do you have anything under that clusterfuck you spew? But again, you are small as usual. Small in every way. Stay tuned...I will write about people like you who are here for the sole purpose of destructing and who continue to do the work of the Repugs. I call people like you Fake Democrats!

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 08:58:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What we are learning though is another thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    papicek, m00finsan

    I read now Insurance companies in tangent with Congress built the bill so they could get around all of this. That is what I read. Anyone else?

    So ya - sure - I do have to knock the HCR bill.

    Look - Single Payer will never happen now. This whole demeaning demoralizing mess last summer will not be repeated (thank doG!).

    Question - seriously since you do not need to be convinced of Single Payer is best for America. Question - do you really believe the Democcrats will ever open this can of worms again. Yes? Pleeeeez!

    I'm glad for the 10 items listed above. I am concerned that the real truth is Insurance companies who crafted the bill know what they were doing an none of the above really apply. My Bat Shit Crazy Theory here.

    Hey - maybe we can ask outgoing Senator Evan Bayh of BC/BS Anthem - I mean Indiana about it. He knows what he gave the Insurance Industry. Bastard. (oh and this Progressive helped him get elected to Governor oh oh so way back. Back when he was one of us Kossacks. (Before the Clintons came along to ruin him).

    2010 > Elect Rebecca Kaplan - Mayor of Oakland ------ Jerry Brown - CA Governor

    by AustinSF on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:21:36 AM PDT

  •  Thank you TIMT (5+ / 0-)

    for the diary, your positive attitude and most of all for your tireless advocacy in behalf of the most vulnerable people in this country.  The links offered by some of the commenters in this thread are very helpful.

    Kudos to you, brotha

    like a tree planted by the river, I shall not be moved.

    by lightshine on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:34:25 AM PDT

  •  The current bill should be seen as a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blindyone, ThisIsMyTime, mallyroyal

    strategic stepping stone that we will expand over time.  I want single payer, too - but I am not going to bash the benefits of the current bill to do so.  However flawed, the current HRC provides concrete help to many - and I am not going to forget or deny that.

    I feel fortunate to have come of age and been seasoned in activist struggles that took a long view - that assumed struggle was for a lifetime, and that we would keep building on what others had given to us and on what we had achieved to date.  That assumed nothing would be easy; that there would always be huge backlash in the face of progressive movement.  And that we would build on smaller achievements to create the large ones.

    Thanks, TIMT.  Great diary.  

    Teach us to listen to sounds larger than our own heartbeat; that endure longer than our own weeping in the dark. - Lillian Smith

    by RadioGirl on Tue Aug 31, 2010 at 06:41:16 AM PDT

  •  The phrasing about "access to health care" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, m00finsan

    means you have to purchase what you can afford.

    This whole bill was suppose to be the corner stone of Obama's legacy but will be a stone in his shoe.  The White House knows the polling on this law and it is not popular, maybe over time, but I don't think so.  What was promised to Americans during the primaries/general did not come to be.  The key portions of this law was compromised to look like no big whoop.  This is why many Americans don't care about it, they don't.  Americans understood the word public option and health care like congress and know they did not get what they wanted.  They know prescription drug medication is sky high and now they know that no negotiation for cheaper drug prices due to back room deals.  They also know that they were told no mandates and what happened to that one?  The insurance companies get new customers because you will be forced to purchase something and we all know the better insurance plan means you have to pay for it, the cheaper means you don't get much in options.  What kind of health care is that?  Not much.

    This law was supposed to save the Democrats this November but no one is talking about it.  It is crap and the public knows it.  So, the White House can continue to be whiny all they want, the onus is on them to sell this shit sandwich and even they could not do it.

    It is what it is.

  •  The US pays far more than other countries for the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wigwam

    exact same procedures and drugs, and yet those costs keep rising, far above the rate of inflation.

    This bill does next to nothing to address the fundamental problem of COST and AFFORDABILITY, and is hence a monumental failure.

    Mandating that insurers can't discriminate against preexisting conditions is great and everything - but what do you think they are going to do with this added cost?  Obviously pass it along to the consumer in the form of higher premiums for everybody.  Costs will continue to rise.  More and more people will find insurance unaffordable.

    Now, I hope that we will use rising cost as an excuse to turn to single payer in the future, but I know that is not likely.  It is more likely that the Republicans will come back to power, pointing to the rising costs as demonstration that "Obamacare" and "socialized medicine" failed, and use them as an excuse to turn everything back even further - e.g. pay for your own healthcare via savings accounts.

  •  So the idea then (0+ / 0-)

    is that fewer Ds will be in Congress (surely not more) and Obama will be in the White House and THEN we'll get real health care reform?

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