Skip to main content

Folks, I've written many diaries about this issue before, but in light of the mass illegal arrests of citizens in New York city today, for nothing more than exercising their constitutional rights of freedom of assembly, I'd like to bring this issue to the fore again.

Pretty soon it will become apparent why the nascent neo-fascist infrastructure was put in place during the last 10+ years (using 9/11 as a pretext).  The real reason behind the draconian (misnomer) PATRIOT act legislation; the wholesale curtailment of constitutional protections; the vast expansion of the surveillance state.  And the rapid build-up of private, for-profit prisons across the entire country.

I guarantee you that right now the neo-fascist owners of the private prisons are rubbing their hands in anticipation of a huge revenue spike, as they expect that the spreading protests across the nation will result in massive arrests.

Timing is of the essence here.  Many people don't see it yet, but there is a massive neo-fascist and repressive infrastructure in place ready to be fully deployed.  And if there was ever a time to push back, it is now.

And explaining the situation is not that hard: Wall Street and the plutocratic ruling class (Koch brothers, ALEC, etc) are hell-bent on subjugating and exploiting the population.  They own the government, including the vast surveillance apparatus, and by extension, the police departments across the country.

They will deploy it against the protesters.

There has to be a massive show of force and solidarity (and discipline and organization) from the resistance movement now.  Now is the time!  

If UNIONS are saying they are supporting the movement, then now is the time to take some real actions.  There have to be massive work stoppages across the country.  The machine needs to be brought to a halt, now.

And as the work stoppages happen, tens of thousands of union members need to take to the streets with the rest of the members of the resistance movement in a show of force and SOLIDARITY. AFL-CIO, Teamsters, Airline Pilot Unions, SEIU, all the unions need to coordinate massive action now.

Lawyers, academics, intellectuals, journalists, technologists, activists; we all have to join together in this cause, and the time is now.

If we don't project a massive SHOW OF FORCE and unity, organization, discipline, and SOLIDARITY, now, you will see a rapid rise of a NEO-FASCIST state.

Lawyers reading this, and journalists, start keeping track to see if any of the people arrested are being detained in the for-profit detention camps.

UPDATE: 10/01/11 5:45PM: The New York Daily News is reporting that there were 400 protesters arrested today on the Brooklyn Bridge... What will happen if the arrests get to 600, 800, 1,500?  Stand by.

UPDATE: 10/01/11 9:00PM: The Associated Press: 700 arrested after protest on NY's Brooklyn Bridge

PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO
----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

 

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Wow, that's crazy. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    calistan, worldlotus, importer, farlefty

    I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    •  Just a few things to think about... (4+ / 0-)
      •  I think ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        farlefty

        that most of those arrested won't even spend a night in jail, much less time in prison ... which requires a sentence of more than a year's time to be served.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:59:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There were 400 arrested today... This is a growing (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mookins, farlefty, JonBarleycorn

          resistance movement spreading across the country.  Once the arrests get to be 600, 700, 800, 1,500, many of the people arrested are likely to find themselves in these private for-profit prisons, even if for one night.

          Why do you think these companies have been lobbying (buying off) government officials so hard?

          •  Not for this. eom (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            farlefty

            "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

            by Neuroptimalian on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 06:27:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You do the movement a disservice (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elmo

            by declaring so loudly your inability to distinguish between jails and prisons, and misdemeanors and felonies.  The protestors do not need to fear being sent to prison for civil disobedience; please stop lying to them; please stop discouraging them through fear; please stop with the conspiracy theories -- they're a blight on the community, and forbidden by the site's rules.

            ---
            I look at you all; see the love there that's sleeping. - G.H.
            I really love a lot, but I fight the one's that fight me. - M.I.A.
            Obama 2012

            by hey mister on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 03:46:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  history teaches us that it isn't crazy (10+ / 0-)

      Detention camps have been used repeatedly in various authoritarian regimes to hold opponents of the regime. Some examples: Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Chile under Pinochet. We even interned Japanese citizens in camps during WWII, right here in America.

      It is a tried-and-true method, and it works. There's no reason that the oligarchs of America wouldn't use it to quash dissent, once it came down to it.

      And as to the objection that it can't happen here and now: let's just say that if the president of the United States is claiming an absolute right to summarily execute an American citizen without any pretense of due process, the day of reckoning is not far off.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:04:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not far at all... We're almost there. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SeaTurtle, mookins, farlefty
        •  your message is essential (7+ / 0-)

          frankly thoughts similar to yours have been in the back of my mind....

          I am so concerned that there will be agent provocateurs who will lead the demonstraters to break some sort of law and then kapow!  they will be arrested and the rest will be history.

          Thom Hartmann echoed these sentiments as well.

          We forget Naomi Klein's lesson of Shock Doctrine to our detriment.

          I cannot help but feel that the public is being manipulated on puppet strings.  But I still believe that with the power of the new technologies, we may still be able to cut those strings

          However, your alarm to respond immediately is essential.

          Please keep posting this diary.

          I think that a OWS website needs to be set up to receive and store in a library all cellphone videos of any action taken by the police that can be preserved and used in defense and also for journalistic purposes.

          Secondly, I believe that a legal OWS website needs to be set up immediately, with each state of OWS demonstrations represented, with ACLU guidance and legal guidance to demonstrators so that they will not be intimidated by the plutocracy.

          Seneca D has an important diary up:

          calling all lawyers on deck to help OWS

          These would be concrete places to start.

          Thanks for this diary.

          I belong to the “US” of America, not the “ME,$,ME,$,ME,$,ME,$” of America!

          by SeaTurtle on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:46:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh, and perhaps we ought to set up a (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ray Pensador, mookins, farlefty

            another OWS website tracking the prisons and their 'for profit' chicanery and how and if any of our people get in their grips.

            If they know we are watching and will bring the sunshine of media, then hopefully they will not be able to operate unchecked.

            I belong to the “US” of America, not the “ME,$,ME,$,ME,$,ME,$” of America!

            by SeaTurtle on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:48:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not gonna say you're crazy (6+ / 0-)

    because who knows, it could happen here.
    It's happened before.
    http://www.nytimes.com/...
    http://www.projectcensored.org/...
    U.S. citizens were just killed by drone, without due process.
    Anything could happen.
    Quaker peace groups, beware!

  •  Ray, do you know if any of these prison companies (5+ / 0-)

    are publicly owned and trade on stock exchanges?  And if they do, do you have names and ticker symbols?

    I ask because it would be worth knowing what moves their meters.

    "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

    by Mogolori on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:07:05 PM PDT

    •  Check out this 2-minute video: (5+ / 0-)

    •  Here: (8+ / 0-)

      The GEO Group
      NYSE: GEO

      Corrections Corporation of America
      NYSE: CXW

      The other one Cenk mentioned in the video, Cornell, is now part of GEO.

      "We come on a peace thing. White flag?" "White flag!"

      by VictorLaszlo on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:15:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  there's also Corrections Corporation of America... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ray Pensador, SuWho, alizard, farlefty, Spoc42

        .... CCA.  I don't know if it's publicly traded.

        Also keep an eye on (still privately owned if I'm not mistaken) the company formerly known as Blackwater, now called Xe.  

        The next logical move is for private prison companies and private security companies to go into each others' fields of business.  That would be vertical integration.   Very similar to Waste Management running local refuse collection and the transfer stations and the landfills, something that is already in place in some areas.  

        Some time in the late 20th century, it may come to this:

        You get arrested at a protest by Xe security, on contract to a city instead of having a regular police department.

        You get detained pending trial in an Xe jail.

        You get prosecuted by an Xe attorney, on contract to the county instead of having a regular county prosecutor's office.

        (And are the judges themselves still "public sector employees"?  Or are they contracted in from Xe too?)

        And upon conviction you do time in an Xe jail or prison, where your daily forced labor also adds to their bottom line.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:31:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes! We need to keep an eye on.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador, farlefty

      .... the stock prices of these companies, to see what causes them to go up and what causes them to go down.  

      This will be a useful clue as to the kinds of policies they favor, and that are favorable to them.  

      "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:24:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Um, you're going wiht the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geekesque, rscopes, Susan G in MN, elmo

    FEMA concentration camp stories?

    •  That's funny... No, I'm just speculating that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Louisiana 1976, SuWho, farlefty

      if the protest movement takes hold and there are mass arrests (similar to what happened today in New York), many of the people arrested may end up in these for-profit private jails.  And I think these private companies (owners of the jails) think about these things in their profit projections.

      I know, that's totally crazy, but what you're going to do...

      •  then I'd suggest a title change. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alizard, Wee Mama

        That phrase "detention camps" calls up the whole set of memes about FEMA this and black helicopters that, which sounds like so much CT.  

        Better to say "private prisons" so the cynic brigade can't accuse you of CT.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:32:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You forgot the black helicopters. eom (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Susan G in MN, elmo

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:40:05 PM PDT

  •  Gov. Jesse Ventura...Get off this blog! n/t (0+ / 0-)

    apparently due to ancient hardware and the transition to dk4 I can't recc tip jars or comments any longer so in lieu of the 'standard nod' you'll see a variety of replies until this gets fixed or becomes a mighty big fucking pain in the ass

    by oopsaDaisy on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:49:00 PM PDT

  •  Ray I'm as suspicious as they come and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, alizard, Wee Mama

    I've been following the camp story since REX-84.  But I think most of these folks won't even be charged, not this time, anyway.  Even if they're charged and convicted they will only spend a few days in jail for civil disobedience (disorderly conduct), they don't go to prison for that.   It's usually time served if they don't get bailed out.

    There are literally hundreds of people arrested and I don't think NY has that much extra jail space.  I think this was just meant to send a message by NYPD and maybe intimidate people, but I suspect it will backfire if it already hasn't.  

    There's nothing to fear.  They're probably nervous and uncomfortable now, but they are part of something bigger than themselves and later they'll remember it as the best, most exciting time of their lives.

    Which side are you on?

    by wiseacre on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:50:06 PM PDT

  •  You're over-interpreting the situation. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Livvy5, annieli, SuWho, Steven wonders, elmo

    Yes, there are powerful fascists (no need to qualify them as "-neo" - they're just plain fascists who view power and violence as ends in themselves) in this country.  But they are not in control, and they know they are not in control - everything they do proves that.  

    Yes, they have considerable pull with law enforcement organizations, but the claim that our police are "in their pocket" is a self-gratifying lie that smears ordinary people who do a hard and dangerous job.

    Yes, private prisons are proliferating.  They're proliferating because they're profitable and the "citizens" of many states have a bottomless appetite for criminalizing everything and punishing "criminals" ever more severely, not because there is a conspiracy.

    Yes, Dick Cheney was planning to build concentration camps for dissidents and probably some types of minorities whom he deemed likely to resist - that much is documented fact.  But he never got the chance: His regime turned to Mussolini-like incompetent shit because everyone who supported him was a selfish, medieval shitheel who never cared about Cheney's totalitarian fantasies.  They just wanted their own little tyrannical corporate fiefdom, and "gubmint" to stay out of it unless they needed a bailout.

    Yes, the surveillance state has expanded.  Know why?  Because it's profitable, both monetarily and politically to the state and to businesses that fund it.  Not because The Man is Comin' to Git Us.  There is always the danger that their resources will be used against us, and so we should be committed to reining them in, but don't become deluded that this is or was ever about us.  It's about gravity - the fact that power accumulates fastest and most easily where it already resides.  Authoritarianism isn't about what it suppresses - it isn't about anything but itself.  That is its weakness when understood properly.  

    The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

    by Troubadour on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 05:24:15 PM PDT

    •  no, the diarist is correct (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador, Spoc42

      just because the police state is hidden from you you think it doesn't exist. But a closer investigation shows the gathering of power by the ruling oligarchs has been growing apace and every year they grow better able to thwart the wishes of the citizens. They want it to be by subterfuge and deception so they can keep a majority thinking as you do. Unaware, fat and satisfied, never seeing their methods as their country is lost.

      I know you won't be convinced no matter how many they torture or detain. Most won't. But the question becomes; will enough citizens wake up before it's too late or will the USA slide into being a banana republic as its present direction becomes irreversible.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 09:04:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is indeed the question! n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  You seem to be confused about the definition (0+ / 0-)

        of "police state."  There are people who will insist - and apparently believe, with all sincerity, borne out in their own estimation by personal experience - that America has never been other than authoritarian in living memory.  They will point to WW2 internment camps, HUAC, CoIntelPro, MK Ultra, the Vietnam War, the Chicago police riots, etc. etc. to say that we lost our freedom generations ago, that it's all a big sham, that we're just dumb farm animals too stupid to know how powerless we are, and so on.  And, of course, just to keep up appearances they will add some vague appeal to "wake up," but what precisely that means is never really explained, because they don't know themselves - and when called upon to provide an explanation, they'll usually appeal to some symbolic figure like Che Guevara or Malcolm X, because we're supposed to be so awed by the symbolism and imagery of the allusion that we won't notice they don't know what the hell they're talking about.  They're just throwing around words to represent emotions, and that's really all the paranoid style of politics is.

        That shit will never, ever, ever defeat authoritarianism as it actually exists.  NEVER.  Never has, never will.  Fear and deluded self-involvement are not solutions or preludes to solutions, they are additional problems that exacerbate existing ones and compromise the ability of a people to be free.  To be free, not to wallow in some messianic vision of an abstract freedom that is always being suppressed by some shadowy villain.  There are plenty of people in America today who have lived in real police states, and I've never met a one who is afraid of the degenerates you're portraying as superhuman villains.

        I'd like to know what era of history you're using as a model for comparison, because I don't know of any where your thought process wouldn't lead to the invariable conclusion that the world is a dark, sinister place pervaded by an all-powerful demonic force of hidden influences trying to destroy humanity.  The danger is the exact opposite of what you believe: The other side is becoming less conscious and less controlled, turning into malevolent barbarian zombies who believe any lie or fantasy that upholds their preexisting emotional proclivities.  If you think the way to outwit this phenomenon is to upstage it in the paranoia department, have at it, but it's not a game anyone plays with the intention of winning.  We know what left-wing paranoia looks like from history, and it's not a legitimate or effective counter to the right-wing version - it's chaos and it serves the enemy.  Be real.

        The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

        by Troubadour on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 09:50:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I never, ever, write anything without having (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Spoc42

          thought about it very carefully, and most importantly, without being ready to back it up.

          Your use of terms like "left-wing paranoia" and "emotional proclivities" that may be preexisting in my psyche are obviously condescending, but do not actually represent a coherent counterargument to my thesis.

          And your claim or allusion to really, really knowing what a police state is all about, or claiming that others that have actually lived under a police state would not agree with my conclusions, is obviously an attempt to claim some expertise, knowledge or superior intellectual heft.

          I utterly reject it, and I am ready to back up my argument...

          Fascism usually creeps into societies over time.  And it does so in different ways, depending on the historic era is happening in, and the country, the culture, and the power structure.

          I call it neo-fascism specifically alluding to the draconian anti-democratic laws passed by the Bush Administration during the early 2000's using 9/11 as a pretext:

          Opponents of the former George W. Bush administration [point out to] similarities between the Homeland Security Act of 2002 and Nazi Germany's Enabling Act of 1933.

          Yes, I agree that many of these forces are akin to a gravitational pull, whereas power tends to accumulate in an ever increasing and accelerated fashion.

          And that has lead to the concentration of power at the top (the plutocratic ruling class), and their ability to buy off much of the government through influence peddling, campaign contributions, lucrative employment positions for politicians, family members and close friends.

          This has led to the plutocratic ruling elite being able to influence the bought off politicians to dismantle the proper function of government and the regulatory framework in order to consolidate power.

          Draconian laws, like the PATRIOT Act set the stage for a the wholesale undermining of constitutional protections, including protections related to privacy, search and seizures, government surveillance and habeas corpus.

          This I call setting the stage for the rise of the neo-fascist police state.

          And because of a confluence of interests (and affinity), many high-tech companies that makeup the backbone of our information-led economy, end up being part of the government surveillance apparatus.

          And so with secret orders handed down by Homeland Security, companies like Google, Yahoo, YouTube, Twitter, AT&T, and many others, end up providing the government with terabytes of information about the population--information that ends up being use in a massive and constant "total information awareness" program.

          The pretext for these things of course is that it is being done in the name of national security.

          It is very possible that many of these actors (the top 1%, the government officials, the corporations, Wall Street), individually, don't see themselves as evil, or neo-fascist, or as the bad guys.

          But when you put the whole system together, and understand the "gravitational forces" at play, in the final analysis you end up with a neo-fascist police State.

          The citizens, being oppressed under this increasingly corrupt system don't have to wait for somebody else to define, or explain how to characterize the situation.

          The tyrannical tendencies of the powerful are always there:

          If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning.

          They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.

          The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must pay for all they get. If we ever get free from all the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and, if needs be, by our lives, and the lives of others.

          - Frederick Douglass

          And it is the duty of a free people to never let themselves be subjugated.

          In closing, I stand by my argument, and totally reject your characterizations.

          •  What you have described (0+ / 0-)

            is the existence of a potential, not an actual state.  Frankly, Britain has lived under far more severe authoritarian control throughout its entire history than Americans deal with today, so that is part of my complete rejection of your belief, however much passion you've invested in it, that our condition is authoritarian by any reality-based standard.  The other part is a simple, personal smell test: Am I afraid to say anything, ever, due to the feared threat of retaliation by the people you think have total control of our country?  The answer is no - never.  

            Maybe I'm just a stupid thug who would be among the first lined up against the wall and shot by these people, but frankly my record of situational awareness has a much better track record than either the general public or my more leftward brethren.  In 2000, I said publicly exactly these words: "George W. Bush is evil, and I think he intends to start a war."  I knew nothing about PNAC or the Iraq conspiracy, I just saw a bunch of people who were psychotic and reveled in the rhetoric and imagery of violence.  After the 2004 "election," when most of the people on the left I knew were wallowing in apocalyptic despair and certain that Dick Cheney was going to swoop down on them with einsatzgruppen any moment, I told them the Bushies were incompetent degenerates who can't manage against any halfway motivated enemy - the regime had already admitted as much by cannily refusing to seek a draft despite critical troop shortages in their war.  

            I told them their fear was the only real enemy, and - while I don't take any credit for something self-evidently true becoming known - eventually our actions embodied this realization and we totally reversed the situation in both the White House and the Congress.  But then we didn't follow up on it - we just sat around and let our gains disappear after that, and now fear returns to some.  Well, I will never fear the people you do - not even if/when they are what you say they are, because they are also what I say they are: Degenerate, stupid animals who simply inherited an outsized set of resources, and we can defeat them easily when we refuse to legitimize, dignify, or aggrandize them with comic book fantasies.  How impotent did the glorious, "brilliant" Karl Rove look when Democrats simply stopped caring what the guy said or the lies he told, when we stopped lending our imaginations to the momentum of his psychosis?

            That isn't to say the right can never get there independently - it has done so in history, and will do so again - but not with these people as its power base.  Not with a party entirely based on idiocy and nihilism.  Those people would not even enlist in the military in any significant numbers for the invasion of Iraq despite being bombarded by constant, absolute, and incessant propaganda convincing them it was the greatest thing of all time that would be attended by glory, riches, and chocolate unicorns parading down boulevards of gold.  They will risk nothing for their masters.  They will sacrifice nothing to support what they claim to believe, but inwardly know to be a lie.  That makes them qualitatively different from the Germans, Italians, Japanese, and other peoples who've become the property of fascist thugs - these people will not sacrifice, no matter what.  They believe in nothing.  They just want their payoff.  Corruption is a hard thing, but it's not that hard - not hard like the WW2 generation faced; not hard like the West faced across the Berlin Wall.  

            Reject that all you want, but it's simply true and the undeniable fact of history.  Any sane person would rather be right here, right now than awaiting vaporization in the Cuban Missile Crisis, facing the unending ruin and horror of either World War, living in the midst of racial segregation / apartheid, being forced to goosestep down streets in silly uniforms chanting odes to the Beloved Leader of some fascist or Communist state, or living in some grim frontier where strangers from over the next hill are as likely to kill you as speak to you.  

            I hope you're not one of those people who seriously believes being maced by a douchebag cop is equivalent - or even in the same universe - as having a government just open fire and massacre people who disobey: That's what past progressives faced, and democracy leaders in places like Syria are still facing.  Later, progressives faced batons and firehoses.  What we face - media bias and the threat of information being used against us to...manipulate public opinion?  I was there under the Bush regime, at the height of the power of arrogant, inhuman vermin with no respect for life or truth whatsoever, and what I saw from them was constant, pervasive FEAR of us causing them to make timid, incremental steps toward their totalitarian fantasies rather than seizing power in huge Wagnerian flourishes.  Fear of us when we were totally castrated politically - and because they're lowlifes interested only in themselves rather than any kind of ideal, fear makes them more cautious, not bolder.  If I believed in God, I would thank it for giving us such muppets as enemies instead of piling on another Hitler or Stalin.  That doesn't mean it'll never happen again, just not with these clowns.

            The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

            by Troubadour on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:31:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I see your problem (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ray Pensador

              you fail to understand the goals of the American police state. It's a new type so I'm not surprised that you'd use the meaningless comparisons to past police states such as the nazi etc. But that's where your long and wrong analysis fails.

              You see todays USA police state is born of economics and as thus is far more benevolent that the dictatorships you reference. It depends on fooling the masses as opposed to forcing its will upon them. It wants to rule over a semi-prosperous nation that continues to produce the wealth they desire to aquire.

              To achieve these goals it necessary for them to slowly take away democratic freedoms using two methods where possible. One is by buying sufficient influence in the state and national legislatures to pass laws which restrict or inhibit freedom. This also gives rise to an imperial presidency which further erodes freedom by assumimg powers not given it in the Constitution.

              Second they'll use the propaganda power of the media they own to divide the populance into warring factions both of which ascribe to populist ideals but hate each other to the degree that their populism is negated. Get it? By using racism and the other dividing tendencies like religion they thwart both sides professed beliefs in freedom and democracy. In this they count heavily on the white majorities fear of losing power to ensure a far right force to enforce their restrictions on freedoms.

              By using these methods they can achieve their goals without the violence and distruction used by the dictatorships you used as examples.

              So the main question becomes what are those goals? The answer is simple; Their goal is to restore the oligarchy to its historical place as unchallenged rulers. That rule was usurped during te rise of the union movement and the empowerment of the middle class beginning at the turn of the 20th century and culminating in the social changes of the FDR era and lasting until the rise of neoliberal economics during the Reagan administration.

              In other words they seek to reverse the gains of the modern era of workers equality in the powers of governance. They desire to return to the the traditional model of the haves ruling the have nots with an iron fist which is the most common economic model historically. They want to return American working classes to the same level of workers in the third world and force them to compete on a par with asian, african and south american workers. That's one of their goals they're quite public about although they dress it up in claims of a 'global economy' when they lower American workers wages and standard of living.

              However should the methods I outlined fail the oligarchs have prepared ways to impose their will by force and law. They learned from their defeats during the rise of the unions in the early 1900's, their electoral defeaats under FDR and the anti-war, environmental uprisings of the sixties. They call it 'deregulation' and other subterfuges in economics and they use lies about a "war on terror" to institute police state laws such as the 'patriot act' and many other restrictions on freedoms.

              I believe it's too damn late to stop what I've explained above while the diarist and others who are fighting to preserve the middle class and their freedoms think the changes are reversable. I believe Americas future has been determined and the police state is too entrenched to overcome by ballot or any other democratic methods. While my more optimistic liberal friends believe they can return the nation to middle class rule by awakening the middle class to it perils. I think there are way too many who believe as you do and won't open their eyes until it's too damn late for sure.

              Which brings us to the present protests or the larger ones which may ensue. Can the oligarchs stop them without exposing the totality of their police state and thus keep sufficient amounts of workers fooled long enough to acomplish their desires? Or will the uprising cause them to impose their final solutions and thus alert the sleeping to what's up? We'll see, I think they'll dispose of the uprising as a blip on their screens and continue their inexhorable drive towards their goals. I see Americas future as a big , rich, banana republic. I hope I'm wrong and a people rebellion ensues. See you on the other side... :)

              America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

              by cacamp on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 10:45:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Absolutely brilliant! I write about these things (0+ / 0-)

                often, and in all my writings it is this exact description of the current state of affairs that I'm trying to describe.

                I which I could say so, but in this case, I have to admit that I could not have said it better.

                This is reality; it's what's going on and we need to continue our labor of trying to wake people up to this reality.

                Thank you.

  •  CCA was a sponsor at Scott Walker's wife's soiree (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SuWho, alizard

    at the Wisconsin governor's mansion. One of the protesters I talked to was a prison guard who, to secure his retirement benefits from the vultures, retired early due to Walker's fake budget crisis.
    Solidarity is all we have!

    I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, alive as you and me.

    by plankbob on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 07:12:12 PM PDT

  •  the bigger the protests get the worse the reaction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ray Pensador, Spoc42

    will be. I don't know if these particular protests will rise to that level or not. But I do agree that the mechanism is in place to stop any uprising of the populance. So far the police state has been benevolent for the most part, oh they've summarily arrested some USA citizens and held them without due process. They've tortured a few bad guys they were sure wouldn't disturb the majority. Gitmo is out in the open. But so far the extent of the police state is hidden from most Americans, out of sight out of mind allows our rulers to keep the populance complacent.

    But that only lasts while Americans are fat and satisfied. Our rulers know it won't last forever and one day the people will get wise. They might even rise up and seek change. So they have prepared for the worst case scenario. They have private contractors at the ready such as those who were deployed around the wealthy enclaves of New Orleans after Katrina. They've built excessive capacity into the prison system. They enacted the "patriot act" to stop real patriots. And they've distroyed the right to privacy so they can target the right people.

    But will they deploy their force over this small protest and expose themselves to the common peeople who still keep their naive beliefs in the 'system'? They don't want to and won't unless the usual methods won't work. But if the people get out of hand and threaten real change the gloves will come off.

    The diarist is correct the only question is if this is the time.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 08:49:17 PM PDT

  •  Relax. (nt) (2+ / 0-)

    I support torturous regimes! Also, I kick puppies.

    by eataTREE on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 09:00:57 PM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site