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Adam Baldwin seemed like a reasonable guy, a conservative activist who writes for Big Hollywood - one of Andrew Breitbart's websites. I try to talk to the other side sometimes and let me tell you, no good deed goes unpunished.

You may recognize Mr. Baldwin as Jayne from Firefly or possibly from Full Metal Jacket in this famous scene:


(h/t Mitt Romney)

ANYWAY, we were having a back and forth on Twitter as to whether or not it was appropriate to use Pepper Spray on the UC Davis protesters. I was saying it was excessive force given it was a peaceful protest/passive resistance and pepper spray is severe while Mr. Baldwin was saying it was appropriate and in keeping with standard mob dispersal procedures.

Mr. Baldwin then asked me what constituted "passive resistance." I answered "Sitting down, arms locked not threatening or being violent to police -> i.e lunch counter sit-ins civil rights movement." Abbreviations for Twitter obviously.

He then slammed me as both a "Kos Kook" and "Racist":

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Now...

1. I was trying to explain to him a TACTIC of protest with a popular example.
2. How is that "racist"?

Oh, well allow me to retort - or rather question that charge...

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And an odd response - is this how conservatives actually think?

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... I was half confused and half insulted. So rather than disengage (probably a better idea) I engaged.

I pushed back on Mr. Baldwin's first point after Mr. Baldwin claimed that MLK would be GOP and Dems "were/remain party of slavers." Which was a reference to the pre-Civil Rights Act/Pre-Civil War Democratic Party, which was the party of the South. Though, to say the Democratic Party remains that party is ridiculous.

Mr. Baldwin has since deleted those tweets and rightfully so.

I merely pointed out to Mr. Baldwin that Martin Luther King advocated for unions and a left of center economic program including guaranteed minimum income, was a civil libertarian (FBI surveillance will do that to a man), and was anti-war/anti-imperialist:

I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, my own government. - MLK, April 1967
Those are Left Wing positions... and oh yeah, so was Civil Rights at the time. What is common today was once "Radical" and "Leftist" Mr. Baldwin.

Mr. Baldwin first refused to accept the Wikipedia Entry on the Poor People's Campaign which identifies MLK as far left on economic issues (guaranteed annual income is way Left) because Wikipedia is suspect in his eyes (knowledge has a well known liberal bias). But he didn't at least complain when I submitted an NPR piece proving King was by Mr. Baldwin's definition "Leftist".

But it wasn't long before...

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For context Mr. Baldwin said he deleted old tweets, like his Democrats "were/remain slavers" because my convo was "clutter" and I wasn't "Intellectually Virtuous." So I threw the charge back when he labeled me a racist for telling him historical facts about MLK.

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"Kos Kook?" My bio does say I diary on Kos (proudly) let's just say that was a misinterpretation. And by the way that is a constant complaint among conservatives - that people label them racists without evidence, just ask Adam Baldwin. So I repeated:

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Mr. Baldwin now tries to bring in a colleague from another Breitbart site Big Government - who to his credit didn't claim what I said was racist and made a point about violence at Occupy protests or rather being selective about which protests to highlight and which not to.

Also, where is the evidence I'm NOT racist?

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Remember this is a writer and activist who claimed I wasn't Intellectually Virtuous.

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Now what just happened here seems a lot like what is happening in America writ large. A progressive/liberal/leftist whatever says something reasonable - gets smeared, pieces apart the smear to show it is untrue, is smeared again, proves that smear is untrue and then is just demeaned and I guess "PeeWee" is a physical description.

Now Mr. Baldwin seems like a big guy so I'm sure compared to him I would seem "PeeWee" but ... wait what were we talking about? Protest tactics!?!?

These are the people opposing Occupy Wall Street.

Originally posted to DSWright on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 06:50 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  See: History? (6+ / 0-)

    coming from the guy who would have called MLK a communist had he lived back then?

    right, right...

    They call me Gato, I have metal joints. Beat me up and earn 15 silver points. -- Gato the Robot, Chrono Trigger

    by rexymeteorite on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 10:42:36 AM PST

  •  ps good on ya for not taking the bait (5+ / 0-)

    and getting down in the mud with this clown. Conservatives do that so they can create a false equivalency between themselves and the so called "LIE-brals" they so despise. Not getting down into the name calling and smearing took the air out of this guys sails.

    They call me Gato, I have metal joints. Beat me up and earn 15 silver points. -- Gato the Robot, Chrono Trigger

    by rexymeteorite on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 10:47:06 AM PST

  •  The only conservative commandment is (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kbman, zedaker, Libby Shaw, congenitalefty

    obedience.  To obey is their definition of virtue. Indeed, it is their key to freedom.

    FREEDOM IS OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW.

    Never mind that the law is being used to subordinate.  A commitment to obedience as the one and only commandment requires that.
    So, if obedience is good, then disobedience is bad.  A disobedient person is not virtuous.

    You see, it all depends on which preconceived notion one starts from. If humans are presumed evil and the state's function is to make them compliant, then what the police are doing is what the obedience mavens expect.
    Trying to convince them that obedience is not a virtue is probably a hopeless cause. Obedience is the handmaiden of abuse.  Abused individuals count on being obedient to protect themselves from punishment.  If, in their experience, there is no recourse for the abused (if authority stands silent and is complicit), then self-preservation demands obedience.
    Which tells us that the myth of individual independence and self-reliance is actually part of the agenda of abuse.  Not only are isolated individuals easier prey, but isolation lowers their resistance--easy targets cowering in fear.

    Perhaps "divide and conquer" should be rephrased as "divide to conquer."

    People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

    by hannah on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 10:54:42 AM PST

  •  Another whacko Baldwin? (0+ / 0-)

    I thought Stephen was the runt in that family.  Alec must be so proud.

    apparently due to ancient hardware and the transition to dk4 I can't recc tip jars or comments any longer so in lieu of the 'standard nod' you'll see a variety of replies until this gets fixed or becomes a mighty big fucking pain in the ass

    by oopsaDaisy on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 10:54:51 AM PST

  •  . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zedaker, raincrow

    1. Love that his twitter pic is of himself in costume as a fake Marine in fictional combat. "I'm fighting the idea war" meme never stops being utterly hilarious.
    2. Another oppressed conservative actor/director/producer/writer who never, ever worked in film or television because Hollywood liberals wouldn't allow it.
    3. You can virtually swap out Balwin for Robert Davi or any other "name" that resides in the BigHollywood stable. Breitbart's schtick is thickly slathered on.
    4. Ex. 1,398,452,872 that non-conservatives are not engaged in a debate with conservatism. Anymore than the mugged are in a debate with their mugger.
    5. As with art, music, and comedy, conservatives (yet again) come up really short in comparison with a gallery of acting's non-conservative talents.

    We are talking another "Ted Nugent in the rain opening the local county fair or Bruce Springsteen at a stadium" level of no contest/no comparison.

    But then, it's all because of liberal bias (rolls eyes) that he's not Brando.

    I am from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 11:16:52 AM PST

    •  That's not fair ... (no pun intended) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      S F Hippie

      Ted would probably get the Saturday night gig at most county fairs, depends on the county.  Other than that detail, right on the mark.

      We had nostalgia from the other side at our county fair with Credence Clearwater Revisited - It's the old drummer and bass player with a front guy who has the voice and energy to sing John Fogerty's stuff properly.  This one could be an OWS ballad ...

      Fortunate Son

      Some folks are born made to wave the flag
      Ooh, they're red, white and blue
      And when the band plays "Hail to the Chief"
      Oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord

      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no Senator's son
      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no fortunate one, no

      Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
      Lord, don't they help themselves, oh
      But when the tax men come to the door
      Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes

      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no millionaire's son, no, no
      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no fortunate one, no

      Yeah, some folks inherit star spangled eyes
      Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord
      And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
      Oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh

      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no military son
      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no fortunate one

      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no fortunate one, no, no, no
      It ain't me, it ain't me
      I ain't no fortunate son, no, no

      Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

      by kbman on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 11:53:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Part of the challenge of trying to debate these (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright, raincrow

    folks is that they believe in the fairy tale otherwise known as the FOX News / RW Talk Radio version of reality.  For decades now the propagandists on the right have created an alternative universe of conservative "facts" which are accepted as absolute truth by their followers.  In their universe tax cuts for the rich DO create jobs and that is proven so just shut your mouth Mr. Smarty-Pants Liberal ... etc. etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc. etc. ... Well, you get the point.

    Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

    by kbman on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 11:40:32 AM PST

  •  this really goes to show that without (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright, crose

    "character casting" that this guy would have zero work in front of a camera. he always plays a conservative jerk role.

    you really have to wonder if the man makes the roles, or the roles made the man.

    the sad part is... he's not even a good actor.

    •  I dunno, I think he's a pretty decent actor, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BachFan

      just a weak political thinker and general gasbag when you get him on those topics.

      It's funny that he works so well under Joss Whedon, who's anything but apolitical himself, and very far from that kind of libertarian kookiness.  But most people interact just fine outside of political disagreements.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 07:55:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They hate facts, which get twisted and turned (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    into something downright ugly and thrown back at you with all the venom and hate they can muster.  I'm beginning to think their brains are wired different.  It sure is evident in their response to what would appear, at least to me, to be a reasonabl discussion.  There isn't any reason there at all.  Are we the martians or are they?  Silly, maybe, but I've wondered that a lot lately.  

    "They love the founding fathers so much they will destroy everything they created and remake it in Rush Limbaughs image." MinistryofTruth, 9/29/11

    by AnnieR on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 12:22:46 PM PST

  •  I don't know about you guys, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    but I was laughing.

    It is a perfect example of what's going on today. Even the GOP candidates are acting like that.

    "...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." Hail to the Fourteenth Amendment. #occupywallstreet

    by politicalmonkey on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 12:24:28 PM PST

  •  remember when john yoo (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright, politicalmonkey

    came out last year to defend the torture memo?

    the UC system wasn't troubled by that at all and kept him as professor teaching law in berkeley. we should have read that as a bad omen.

    our one demand? return what was stolen.

    by stolen water on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 12:35:53 PM PST

  •  I've done a Diary elaborating on your point (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    not only are the Tactics used by #Occupy the same as MLK's so is the Movement itself, the same in terms of Goals.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

  •  I used to like this guy (4+ / 0-)

    but only because I thought he was easy on the eyes. And then I read an interview where he said that listening to Rush Limbaugh while driving one day opened his eyes.

    Now I have a hard time watching anything he's in - which is difficult, because he was a regular in Firefly, which I adored, is in Independence Day, one of my favorite movies, and has guested in Stargate SG-1, JAG and NCIS, three of my all-time favorite TV shows.  I keep thinking the egregious idiocy by the Right will make him wake up -- and then I read something like this, and I realize that pretty is as pretty does. Too bad for his kids.

    •  same here and I have a real hard time (0+ / 0-)

      keeping actors personal ootitics out of my response to them.

      He is far too young not to be called to task for this shit.  I wasn't overwhelmed I might go on my facebook page myself.

      I found him hysterically funny in a lot of shows.

      Donate to Occupy Wall Street here: http://nycga.cc/donate/

      by BlueDragon on Sat Nov 26, 2011 at 07:43:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You and I have a VERY different definition of (0+ / 0-)

    "reasonable."

    Adam Baldwin is a nutbag. Ugh.

  •  I talked to a security guard @Zuccotti (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    Thanksgiving day, We got into ,Henry David Thoreau & Gandhi, and he told me that if Malcolm and Martin were alive today, they would be.....

    ...down with Occupy.

    This Baldwin character demonstrates why ass hat should be a tag.

    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 12:46:31 PM PST

  •  Why bother with these folks? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    They're vicious and intellectually vapid.  It's laughable, really...

    No evidence you're not a racist?

    So does that mean everyone is guilty until proven innocent in his eyes? Or just those that don't agree with him?

    If there's no hard evidence you're not a racist, there's no hard evidence you are either...

    So easy to spew bile and hatred over the internet without having to worry that you'll actually have to have a real conversation with the object of your hatred.

    I would have loved to see him try to explain how equating tactics makes you a racist. Of course, he can't really...

    Which is why he resorted to name calling.

    Best way to handle these folks is let them dig their own holes...

    99% isn't enough. We're all in this together.

    by Frank Lee Speaking on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 04:00:05 PM PST

  •  He appears to be a right wing hack (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright

    HI ADAM! I just blasted him on Twitter, anyone who actually writes for Breitbart and thinks he is intellectually anything has got to be high. Seriously, Adam, shut your face. OK? Thank you, and I'm a really big dangerous individual who would hand you your ass, so stick to acting and stop pretending. I laughed hysterically at his writing. It's pretty sad.

  •  Oh, forgot to mention (0+ / 0-)

    Adam, buddy, if you think what those cops did was correct and you agree with it, you are not an adult worth discussing anything with. You couldn't be more of a right wing shill if you tried, son. Grow up.

  •  Up is down, left is right, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright, crose, Plantsmantx

    slavery is freedom and lies are truth.  It is pointless to argue with the extreme right.  They listen only to their echo chamber and have lost the capacity for skeptical thought.  

    I was a pre-teen during the Civil Rights struggles but I certainly understood that it was a cause embraced by liberals and progressives and opposed by conservatives.  Buckley spoke against the movement.  He later recanted, perhaps to his credit.  

    I am white and I write as a white liberal.  Those who suffered under segregation and marched against it may see it as beyond political labels of conservative and progressive, a matter more of survival, of pride and self-worth; more than just a political cause.  Only those who marched then can speak of their motives.

    To argue that King would, today, side with the Right is nonsense.  Remember that he went to Memphis to support a strike by primarily Black sanitation workers, and died there.  He sided with poor working people then and that would not change.

    This is not to say that King would support the Democrats.  Only those who knew him could hazard a guess, but I like to think that King would have stayed true to the cause of justice as he saw it, independent of party, and would criticize Obama just as he would criticize Bush.

    •  He Opposed Today's Dem Economics In Many Ways (0+ / 0-)

      But then so did FDR, Truman and LBJ.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 07:00:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  LGBT's have the same things said about us (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chitown Kev, martini

    when we try and relate our search for civil rights to the civil rights movement in the 60's.

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Fri Nov 25, 2011 at 07:13:10 PM PST

  •  Brought back memories (4+ / 0-)

    I got into it with Mr. Baldwin last year, when I commented via Twitter on the racism and bigotry inherent in some of his postings. He ended up accusing ME of being racist because I believe in social justice. His nickname for me was "White Guilt Racist".

    He seems to take great pleasure in baiting people who disagree with him, until they give up in disgust. Which I finally did.

    The sad part is, he's one of my favorite actors. But, as we well know, just because somebody has talent in an area doesn't make him/her a decent human being.

  •  Adam Baldwin (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSWright, martini

    has always maintained his right-wingnut position. It is clear that he drinks his Koolaid and that he is fact relishes it. He also makes it clear that he has no problems with appearing clownish and stupid in the social networking world as well as in teevee land. There is a reason he is asked to do and takes the roles he does--he truly is an ignorant thug.

  •  People are Idiots (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    martini

    But usually only when you get us in large groups and panic us. (see: black friday.) Its rare to see someone this stupid on their own. Ive even heard really vicious tea party types privately apologize...publicly sometimes but not usually...once the immediate anger source is gone.

    And its not like I dont understand. I do understand! I play a warlock in World of Warcraft and during Lich King if I payed too much attention to the warlock forums, I'd completely lose it too. Im not saying I was right, or that it was mature. It wasnt...But it was World of Warcraft, no...World of..the actual world. Lifecraft?

    Anyway. My point is I do understand completely losing it. But usually when someone completely loses it, its over something that is at least meaningful in their view of reality.

    Adam Baldwin, on the other hand, was just stupid. Maybe its a manifestation of GIFT, trying to retain his credibility among the hatecrafters (a far less rewarding game than warcraft,) but I say that only because i dont want to admit someone could be this disconnected and malevolent at the same time.

    "Badbadbadbadbadbadbad! This is bad for Team Plasma! Or Plasbad, for short!"

    by kamrom on Sat Nov 26, 2011 at 02:23:29 AM PST

  •  Per wikipedia considers himself libertarian (0+ / 0-)

    but loves the police brutality?  so confused!

  •  Typical wingnut: When they lose they (0+ / 0-)

    start calling names.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 06:55:08 PM PST

  •  Read Mr. Baldwin's reasons for being RW... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    matx

    Apparently he "used to be a liberal" and then began listening to Rush on his drive to auditions.

    sigh...

    Sadly, having been stuck in L.A. traffic, I can understand how Rush might have seemed like the only friendly voice out there.

    Sorry Adam... you're a decent actor... but then I realized... you weren't acting.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 06:55:34 PM PST

  •  King Stopped Being About Civil Rights in 64. He (0+ / 0-)

    was about economic justice and eventually peace for the later half of his entire public career.

    Occupy is about economic justice. It's not equatable to the civil rights movement, it's equatable to Dr. King's public activism.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 06:58:44 PM PST

  •  Why is this three-month old diary.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, BachFan

    ....suddenly on the "Recent Diaries" list?

    And when did the twitterocy occur?

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 07:06:32 PM PST

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