Skip to main content

After getting out of my English Composition class, I got a text that simply had a link in it:

http://studentaid.ed.gov/...

What I read shocked the hell out of me. The government's doing a complete overhaul of the student loan system. This overhaul includes raises minimum salaries for Pell Grants, doing away with subsidized loans, and a whole bunch of other things that amount to hurting students. On the surface they may not sound too terrible, but if you take them as a whole, you'll see how badly they're going to affect the future of college education in America. If you're like me and you need some time to digest government-speak, go ahead and read that link then come back so I can sum it up for you & give you my thoughts on the matter.

Back? OK, cool. So, here's the breakdown. Starting July 1 of this year, there will be no more subsidized student loans for anyone in graduate program or getting a second degree. What does that mean? Well, it means that you HAVE to go with the unsubsidized loans. With those, instead of having interest deferred while you're in classes, they accumulate interest while you study. Also, any loans dispersed between July 1st, 2012 and July of 2014 will no longer defer interest during your six-month grace period between when you graduate & when you have to start repaying them. So, they're charging you interest while you study (which wasn't the case before) and now they charge you interest during the grace period(which was against the law). What's the interest rate you'll be paying? On July 1st it goes up to 6.8% from it's current 3.4%. Yep, they effectively double the interest.

They're also cutting back Pell Grants. From July onward, once you go through 4 years of Pell Grants (including summers) that's it - all gone. Considering that anywhere from a quarter to half of all college students take longer than four years to graduate this is essentially making it impossible for a sizable percentage of poorer students to get their degrees. It also puts returning students at a huge disadvantage -- with the economy this way plenty of people go back to earn a second degree, which Pell Grants will not cover anymore. If you have a degree already, you HAVE to go with a loan. Those same loans that will now charge more & higher interest than ever.

Oh, but hey - under the new rules, they'll be eligible for students loans if their income doesn't exceed $23,000. Sounds great, until you remember that those are the same loans that you're gonna be paying interest on for the next years. And if you have trouble paying down those loans? Well all the assistance programs the Direct Loan system had for struggling people - rebates, temporary interest reductions, etc. - will be done away with come 7/1/12. In its place will be one thing: A 0.25% interest reduction for people paying using automated checks. That's it.  

Student loans are set to be the new credit cards. They'll constantly accumulate interest and late fees and always come up with some excuse to make you pay more. Whoever holds your debts holds tremendous power over your lives and now the Department Of Education wants a piece of the action. Student loan debts have  passed the $1 trillion mark and these changes are sure to add to that. It's basically indentured servitude already -- You'll be working to pay off these loans for years, just like early American colonists who were very poor had to work for seven years to pay debts off & earn their freedom in the New World. So many people I know are struggling so hard to pay off their loans in a terrible job market and I don't see how these alterations will do anything other than make it all worse. The powers-that-be seem so committed to making things harder for young people and profiting off their dreams for a better life, that there's even been talk of removing the six month grace period that's supposed to assist in paying back loans.

So what can we do about it? I guess we can start by finding out who our elected officials are and sending them a ton of angry letters. There's also the little matter of reducing the costs of college. A college education wasn't always a surefire road to debt - state schools were inexpensive until the late '70s and in a few cases they were even free, because the costs were covered by tax dollars. Since the 1980s, though, tuition rates have more than tripled. Community colleges were spared this for a long time, which is why they became a popular choice for people returning to school in the past few years -- it's become so common that it's even the premise of a show called "Community" which I've never seen (but I hear it's great). I guess someone decided these were an untapped market, because I've read a bunch of articles about how those places are increasing their tuition as well.

Something has to be done, because this is essentially turning the academic world into profit centers. If I knew more about the politics of academia I could maybe offer suggestions on fixing these things, but I don't. All I can do is beg people to learn about what's going on and demand change. The only other thing I can suggest is pushing elected officials for alternative learning tracks. You have all these open learning initiatives like MIT's OpenCourseWare, Coursera from the University Of Michigan, Academic Earth and Kahn Academy -- in theory you could do a self-study program that amounts to doing a 2-year degree just using these online resources. I'd love to see some form of standardized test that will let you turn that self-education into college credits. But that would be two years' worth of interest the loan companies couldn't squeeze out of you, so I doubt that'll happen unless we could get a really big push behind it.

Maybe you guys here on DailyKos have some other ideas as well? I hope so. All I know is I'm full of anger and despair right now. I hate the idea that my desire and willingness to learn, to grow, to get ahead, has been viewed as a financial opportunity. I called it indentured servitude before and I stand by that -- I shouldn't be paying a debt for the next ten or twenty years because I chose to learn something. Especially if it's something that could be beneficial to the world at large. Whether it's running X-ray and ultrasound devices at a hospital, machining engine parts, editing manuscripts or something loftier like becoming a doctor or an engineer, I'm providing a service. I'm willing to pay to learn how to provide that service (although I don't think that I should really have to) -- but I am not willing to pay for the next twenty years to do it. Why are the student loan people allowed to profit off of my dreams and work before I get to? Why am I, and millions of other American students, being made to pay for the privilege of serving you?

What planet am I on, that this is considered acceptable? How is it this stuff isn't laughed out of the Capitol Building the second it gets brought up? To quote the soldier from the Thin Red Line: "Who's doing this? Who's killing us? Does our ruin benefit the Earth?" I dunno about the Earth but it must be benefiting someone. Fuck you, you piece of shit, wherever you are. Fuck you for taking my desire to be better than I am and twisting it into a way to make you rich.

Back to my books now, I guess. Might as well get the most I can out of this class - I'll be paying for it for the next twenty years, after all.

EDIT: Wow, my very first diary ended up on the rec list! Thanks so much for reading, everyone. It's clear a lot of you do care about this and want to see some things reformed -- glad I'm not alone here. There's some great discussion happening in the comments too, which I'd like to get to but I'm between classes right now, so I have to make this quick. A commenter named "SingleVoter" pointed out that there's two bills that are being passed through Congress right now to try & stop these new rules from coming into effect. They are House Bill 3826 and Senate Bill 2051 -- please, please contact your local officials and ask them to vote for these. Spread the word if you can, too - we've all got students in our lives and a lot of them won't know about this. Educating people is always the first step to better things!

Originally posted to jonnym on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 02:42 PM PDT.

Also republished by Community Spotlight.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (176+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance, alguien, Kamakhya, northsylvania, LiberalVol, Ree Zen, marleycat, hubcap, BlueDragon, blueoasis, Russgirl, akeitz, farmerchuck, prettygirlxoxoxo, Cofcos, Greyhound, mookins, Yastreblyansky, Native Light, TiaRachel, Killer of Sacred Cows, white blitz, parsonsbeach, rebel ga, MsGrin, One Pissed Off Liberal, DvCM, Orinoco, Calamity Jean, Lonely Texan, vahana, Matilda, paradox, ask, GeorgeXVIII, Geenius at Wrok, ScienceMom, lotlizard, coquiero, OleHippieChick, Words In Action, blue jersey mom, yet another liberal, history first, revsue, Nag, elengul, Hill Jill, Richard Cranium, unclejohn, bronte17, stlsophos, Detlef, PBen, Dartagnan, JDWolverton, xaxnar, RubDMC, mconvente, CorinaR, apip0115, zerelda, glitterlust, young voter, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, Hayate Yagami, Noctem Aeternus, Neon Vincent, cybersaur, roses, BlackBandFedora, Marjmar, Son of a Cat, enufisenuf, lcrp, la urracca, gatorcog, progdog, SneakySnu, congenitalefty, Preston S, ER Doc, frostieb, dmhlt 66, millwood, Actbriniel, Carol in San Antonio, OpherGopher, sillia, triplepoint, krllos, Sychotic1, Leftcandid, Tamifah, prfb, middleagedhousewife, ogre, petulans, chuckvw, Rogneid, DBunn, SuWho, deviant24x, the1sage, snoopydawg, opinionated, Curt Matlock, Mimikatz, Youffraita, entrelac, Steven D, Pam from Calif, stratocasterman, Gorette, wide eyed lib, suzq, Tonedevil, Dave925, 0wn, quill, poligirl, rogerdaddy, happymisanthropy, cinnamon68, Joe Hill PDX, multilee, possum, Lujane, JonBarleycorn, Odysseus, splashy, JBL55, legendmn, Just Bob, eyesoars, fiddler crabby, LaraJones, Dburn, IreGyre, divedeeper, Brown Thrasher, raincrow, Jollie Ollie Orange, cville townie, andontcallmeshirley, old wobbly, ladybug53, peggy, Fracturedchaos, alnep, Mathazar, Heiuan, cassidy3, strangedemocracy, Williston Barrett, tobendaro, Shockwave, bnasley, paxpdx, technomage, Robynhood too, Gemina13, Chaddiwicker, Trotskyrepublican, Angie in WA State, janatallow, davis90, Aaa T Tudeattack, AbominableAllStars, rhubarb, JanL, pcl07, NoMoreLies, Freakinout daily, hepshiba, nomandates
  •  Has this been resolved yet? (29+ / 0-)

    I thought there was still some time before these draconian changes would be made new law.  I looked it up and this is what I found:

    From Bad to Worse. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau recently reported that student loan debt has now exceeded $1 trillion—but that’s not the worst of it. Congress must decide by June 30 whether to extend a provision from the College Cost Reduction and Access Act that reduced Stafford loan interest rates from 6.8 percent to 3.4 percent. If Congress fails to act, those rates will double, returning again to 6.8 percent. Nearly eight million students rely on these loans to pay for college and could be hit hard by the rate increase. The nation’s growing deficit has compelled lawmakers to cut funding in many areas, and assistance to college students is another area that is likely to face scrutiny. Legislation has been introduced to prevent the rate hike, but it is expected to be the subject of another partisan battle in the weeks ahead.
    There is still time to contact your CongressCritters and I believe the President has said he may even veto the proposed increase.

    "George Washington: "The power under the Constitution will always be in the people.... and whenever it is executed contrary to their interest, or not agreeable to their wishes, their servants can, and undoubtedly will, be recalled." 1787

    by moose67 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 02:59:36 PM PDT

  •  Egads (21+ / 0-)

    My daughter is just starting to get the financial aid offers from her college choices.  So far, all include 5K+ in "subsidized federal loans", which I take are no longer subsidized.  While she got substantial financial aid, we are still looking at some 10-15K out of pocket, which could mean more loans.  

    I'm beginning to really understand how people are racking up 100K in loans.  It is a travesty.

  •  I don't see where you get this: (8+ / 0-)
    Starting July 1 of this year, there will be no more subsidized student loans. For anyone.
    I read through the entire page, but I can't find where it says this.

    Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

    by Caj on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 03:25:27 PM PDT

    •  There will still be subsidized loans... (11+ / 0-)

      although I imagine FAR fewer of them... I think the diarist caught the part part about interest accruing and extended that out.

      Definitely no more subsidized loans for graduate study-- which may turn into a big deal at some point.  We may want doctors, and meteorologists, and chemists, and even attorneys in the future.

      The changes are not kind to lower-income students to be sure...

      Our country can survive war, disease, and poverty... what it cannot do without is justice.

      by mommyof3 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 03:55:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is what the right wing wants to stop amongst (19+ / 0-)

        low income people. rw doesn't want poor people to have the opportunity to become,

        Definitely no more subsidized loans for graduate study-which may turn into a big deal at some point.

        We may want doctors, and meteorologists, and chemists, and even attorneys in the future.

        Social Genocide-Two Of It's Many Forms

        Anti-intellectualism is hostility towards and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectual pursuits, usually expressed as the derision of education, philosophy, literature, art, and science, as impractical and contemptible.

        Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite  a "select group" of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes. wikipedia

        Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

        by rebel ga on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 07:01:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is exactly what is at stake when higher (5+ / 0-)

          education become ever more unattainable.  What really make this so bad is that the elites become intelligent but devoid of common sense as they don't actually DO anything practical or useful.  Labor is beneath them.  We end up back in Medieval times.

        •  non-elite, elites... the future: Rich=Elite (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NoMoreLies

          So will the very best of the US get a chance to get the best education? or will only a subset of people whose families are rich get in the doors of the universities? and they will include very intelligent motivated people but also a great many "Legacy" plodders. The average intelligence and capability will still be high BUT not nearly as high as when society allows the very best, poor, middle income and wealthy to compete for admission...

          Dubya was a "legacy"... so the future has more of his class of schmoozers... We will have universities far more as networking sites for rich kids... to meet their fellow future boardroom pals... and a bit less places where the cream of our thinkers mingle and excel...  since it will not be Most of the best but a lot of the best... and more of the pre-ordained path for trust funders environment...

          the future of social mobility and a healthy society that invests in its future just died a bit more.

          Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

          by IreGyre on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 01:55:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Attorneys? Well, maybe. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, Tamifah, Saint Jimmy
    •  You're right. (8+ / 0-)

      They're eliminated for graduate and professional students, but not undergrads, although the subsidy for the 6-month grace period is eliminated for undergrads.

    •  Sorry, you're right (11+ / 0-)

      I meant to write that it would eliminate subsidized loans for people in graduate programs. I'll correct it when I'm not typing on a smartphone.

      •  this part, too (4+ / 0-)
        So, they're charging you interest while you study (which wasn't the case before)
        that was the case before; that was the subsidized part, the feds covering the interest.
        Considering that anywhere from a quarter to half of all college students take longer than four years to graduate
        not the ones on student loans who know that shit's hanging over their head.  in any event, that article you linked to is about OSU specifically; it was not speaking about overall in the U.S.

        and it's also true that they expanded the crap out of pell grants during the ACA reconciliation.  

        Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

        by Cedwyn on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 05:19:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually lots of them take more than (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cville townie, ladybug53

          four years even with that crap hanging over their heads.  I know that a bachelors in Nursing generally takes more than four years...hell, the AA in Nursing in California takes about four years, according to my community college counselor.

          I always suggest to my family members getting higher education that they get their lower division requirements at a community college and then transfer to a four year institution.  I have often thought that state campuses should end lower division teaching, relegate that to the community colleges and double the upper division offerings.  This would be more cost effective for students and it would effectively double the amount of students able to take upper division courses.

          "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

          by Sychotic1 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 09:01:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's a botched reference (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ballerina X, alnep, Cedwyn, kyril, Tamifah

      to the end of subsidized loans for graduate and professional students.

      What did you do in the class war, Daddy?

      by Yastreblyansky on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 04:29:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the young and the old are the worst hit (15+ / 0-)

    by the maintenance of the capitalistic system past its break down point of 2008.

    i am hoping these draconian student loan laws will radicalize a whole generation, but mainly what i have seen is the ultra privileged remain in school and are increasingly callous about those who are locked out all together.

    Donate to Occupy Wall Street here: http://nycga.cc/donate/

    by BlueDragon on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 03:43:36 PM PDT

  •  What? Did you think that "change" would be for the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, Tamifah, 0wn, PALiberal1

    better? Ah, to be young again.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

    by Greyhound on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 04:24:20 PM PDT

  •  Who hates American students? (20+ / 0-)

    Hint: The name of their party starts with an R. This is part of the blackmail extorted by House Republicans for raising the debt ceiling last summer.

    There have been quasi-effective protests against the doubling of Stafford interest rates. There needs to be more. I can't believe this can survive public awareness--it's against everything Obama has been saying forever, and it's an election year for everybody (most Republicans can't afford to send their kids to college either, though the congresscritters and their paymasters all can of course). I'm off to do some research! see you around.

    What did you do in the class war, Daddy?

    by Yastreblyansky on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 04:26:44 PM PDT

    •  I feel the same way (8+ / 0-)

      There are plenty of poor Republicans who are going back to school, are finishing school or have kids in school. All we have to do is spread the word about how their own party is fucking them. Then we watch them scatter like cockroaches when a light goes on.

      I hope so, anyway. I'm sure they'll try & stealth it in like they do with so much other shitty legislation -- bury it in Paragraph C-3, Section A of a 375-page bill that they made a "last minute change" to, just before it's up for a vote (so naturally no one bothers to read it). I'm hoping the Democrats are smart enough to expect that & keep it from happening, but they've disappointed me before...

      •  But the Right wing Colleges will take them.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cville townie

        the new law school Bible colleges and other brand new Billionaire funded finishing schools for lobbyists and tools to pad government agencies with. Lots of patrons subsidizing their next generation of flunkes and toadies... And the fast track to revolving door jobs doing what they are told to to help funnel money from the government into privatized scams will help pay back any loans faster...

        If you don't have right wing foundation patrons you will have more problems paying the loans back. A sweet setup... milk the "bad" students... the left wing commie atheist or just main-line protestants with a life time of student loan usury while the "good" students who went to approved schools will somehow avoid that...

        somehow I think that is the net result... planned or not it works for them...

        Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

        by IreGyre on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 02:03:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fortunately for us (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IreGyre

          there just aren't nearly enough slots at right-wing bible colleges and the like to hold all the people displaced from left-wing commie state universities!

          What we really need to watch is the incessant shilling of people like Mittens for for-profit trade schools, which can expand more quickly and appeal to a wider audience. The ROI is much lower on those; even if they are competent, they are not concerned with containing their tuition and fees at all. This is the real setup for a generation of debt; they can handle a lot of students and overcharge all of them.

    •  The party of racist louts (aka GOP) (7+ / 0-)

      has had plenty of help the last 30 years.  While they've taken the wrecking ball to American society, the party that is supposed to defend it has just stepped aside.  

      But hey, those members of Congress survived.  Maybe they'll think of us next time they get an opportunity to "compromise".  

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 04:56:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why not graduate school??? (19+ / 0-)

    I was very lucky and came out of undergrad with no debt. Not a penny. Thanks mostly to my parents, my scholarships, and what I could earn working in summers and over all the holiday breaks.

    But I went on to earn three graduate degrees. The first one alone put me $20K in debt, all of it subsidized federal loans.

    Without access to those subsidized federal loans I could not have attended graduate school. Would not hold a Ph.D. Would be in a different line of work.

    Why someone thinks only the wealthy should get to attend graduate school is a puzzle to me. We may not need any more JDs, MBAs or EDDs, but we sure as hell need Ph.D.s, MDs, and most other flavors of advanced degrees to keep the country producing on every level. Outside the sciences most of those students will need loans, and if they cut the subsidies graduate degrees will become the province of the wealthy once again.

    •  they can still get loans (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jonnym, Deep Texan, Tamifah

      instead of subsidizing the interest the feds cut it in half, which we need to fight to keep.

      http://act.credoaction.com/...

      as to why not graduate school, i know too many people who stayed in higher education to avoid the real world.  without subsidized loans, people who aren't really in it won't go taking slots away from people who are, less competition for TA slots, etc.

      and i do think it's better that the government spend that money on pell grants instead; it's much more egalitarian to give everybody a shot at a bachelor's than to subsidize advanced degrees.

      Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

      by Cedwyn on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 05:25:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not one or the other, we need both, imo. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SneakySnu, kyril, Tamifah, 0wn, cville townie

        Education should be affordable as long as the student is performing.

        And BTW, interest payments benefits only one group, the rich.  The ones who lend the money.  The money that they have enough extra of that they can lend it to others and let "it" "work for them."

        "It" in this case meaning "them", those who need the loans, who pay the interest to the lenders.

        Slavery, in other words.  Interest makes money flow uphill from the poor to the rich.

        •  so why should the government (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hooper, Tamifah, cville townie

          be subsidizing loans by paying the interest on them?  isn't that money best spent making education more affordable for the most people, like the pell grant expansion?

          anyhoo, the interest rate was lowered to 3.4%; let's fight to keep that.

          Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

          by Cedwyn on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:46:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I bet we agree. Yes to fighting to keep rates low. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tamifah, Cedwyn, cville townie

            I'm not clear on this issue.  I thought the O. admin. took over the student loan program to get the banks out of the business (?), but this must be another issue.  Looks like Republicans again, which means we can beat them and fix it this year.

            I have one son going back to grad school this fall but he's paid for as he's in science.  

            In general though the whole credit system is imo a scam.  

            •  they decreased the interest rate (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cville townie

              back in '08 or '09 or some such.  that decrease is set to expire in july, which the house is more than happy to do.

              http://act.credoaction.com/...

              that is separate from the pell grant expansion, etc. passed with the ACA reconciliation fix.  the reconciliation legislation, though, is where they cut the subsidies to graduate student loans, which wasn't so bad a hit with the interest rate cut.  so we have to fight to keep that.

              Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

              by Cedwyn on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 09:50:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I think a couple of years either in (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tracker, IreGyre, cville townie

        the military or public service, and then you are guaranteed a free college education, would be brilliant.

        Put people to work, give them useful skills, get something positive out of it for society, then put them through college.

        I know it's not perfect, but it's better than this mess we have now

        (The above was probably snark, for the snark challenged) (The below was actually said by George W Bush in a press conference) I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

        by Tamifah on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:54:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm intrigued by the Australian system (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IreGyre, cville townie, ladybug53

          I don't know a lot about it, but apparently you get to go for college for free (or close to it), and then those people who earn a degree are subject to an extra income tax for a defined period (I think it is pretty long) after graduation.

          In other words, paying for your education is dependent on your post-graduation income. It seems to me that this avoids being crushed under a burden of debt. Anyway, I'd like to learn more about that system.

          "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

          by Lost Left Coaster on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:47:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This happens anyway.... (0+ / 0-)

            ....since college graduates have significantly higher incomes than non-graduates, they end up paying more tax into the system over their working lives. The government might very well end up making a long-term profit on free post-secondary education.

            I wish Republicans were really obsessed with making profit at every opportunity. It would make them less socially malignant. Instead, they'll throw profit to the winds if they see a chance of hurting someone they don't like.

            "Given the fact of servitude, the feudal relationship is the only tolerable one." (George Orwell)

            by sagesource on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 01:50:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  People stay in grad school in a depressed job (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IreGyre, ladybug53, cassidy3

        market.  Also, a college degree does not mean a living wage anymore and a masters is required to earn enough to support a family.

    •  Same here, (6+ / 0-)

      and I actually had a full ride for the first three years of my Ph.D. while taking classes and doing my preliminary exams.  The problem came my dissertation year, when I really needed to finish (ironically, for financial reasons) and had to be in-residence at Duke.  My stupid department all but refused to help me, meaning that I had to take out $10,000 so that I could live while completing my obligations.  Never mind that I brought the deparment prestige by getting 3 research fellowships, including a Fulbright, and was one of the only students to go from start to finish in 6 years.

      12 years later I'm still angry about the situation, especially because I'm still paying $300/month in consolidated loans (had loans from my M.A. program as well).  

      I mean, how much do they think professors in the humanities make when they start out and before tenure?  

    •  OT, but you are so lucky you grabbed that name (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, cville townie

      the best hate mail ever!

      I will speak out whenever and wherever I see racism. Silence is not an option! Please support NFTT 2012

      by Actbriniel on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:25:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The lie that somehow helping low income students (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cville townie, Saint Jimmy

      is just going easy on people who are not intelligent enough... graded easily, allowed to pass. There are plenty of dim racists out there who totally believe that the only way minorities get in to college and do well is some liberal conspiracy to give things to undeserving substandard humans and taking the places of "deserving" white kids who are better. And these racists of course see president Obama that way too. A hiring quota president or something.

      The truth that a country helps itself immensely when it ensures that all the best students have equal access to the best higher education. So many examples in the world of countries stifling themselves, holding back their own progress and excellence by arbitrarily shutting out part of the population on the basis of  gender, race, ethnicity, religion etc.
      (The Third Reich is one of the more extreme and more obvious examples)

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 02:13:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let me guess... (5+ / 0-)

    This is a result of the "cutting spending by gazillions to instill confidence in the market"  (geithner) plan, right?

    If that's the case, then this is bipartisan fuckery.

  •  They're worse (12+ / 0-)
    Student loans are set to be the new credit cards.
    At least with a credit card, there is some chance you can get out of it through bankruptcy. With a student loan, you'll be hunted down like Valjean in Les Miserables for the rest of your life, with the banks acting as your Javert. All for the crime of getting an education.
  •  And when these odious laws are passed, we (8+ / 0-)

    must ask ourselves:

    Who did this?

    Who is in control of our government?

    Whom should we hold accountable?

    And the response shall be:

    The GOP controls the House!

    There is no choice!

    It's called compromise!  It's how you "get things done"!

    It will get better next time around!

    Students are just pissed they didn't get their pony!

    The only conclusion I can come to is that the House controlled GOP is able to somehow pass legislation without worrying about either the Senate or the President.

    Perhaps we were asleep when this new form of government took place in which the House is a singular form of government with the Senate and Presidency relegated to a form of potency & power best exemplified by the Pope's Swiss Guard.

    Question:

    Who benefits from doubling the interest rates?  

    The Wall Street Banks?  

    The very same ones who "borrowed" from the Fed at less than a single percentage point?  

    The very same institutions from whence Obama has selected all his Chiefs of Staff?

    Every single time Wall Street runs amok and takes a shot at imposing austerity I ask myself:  "How did this happen?"

    Why, it's the GOP's fault of course.

    Dammit.... perhaps we should focus on gaining a majority in the House, let the GOP have the Senate and Presidency - as the GOP has amply demonstrated, we only need the House and a minority in the Senate and we can get whatever we want - if the GOP's successes are any indication, that is.   /angry snark

    It isn't that Obama hasn't Changed anything; It's that his actions advance the 1%'s interests.

    by Johnathan Ivan on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 04:55:18 AM PDT

  •  No real need to educate people living here anymore (13+ / 0-)

    because businesses have discovered that education is easily outsourceable like a lot of other things. Just import the recently educated; problem solved.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 05:04:34 AM PDT

    •  Which begs the question... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby, kyril

      Does it make more sense from a cost perspective to go to school offshore, particularly for technical degrees and grad studies?  Mexico?  Canada?  South America? Somewhere in the Caribbean or Europe?

      Just a thought.

      We're resigned to our collective fate because we've been conditioned to believe that this is as good as it gets.

      by Richard Cranium on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:02:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Very possibly, but then (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, Richard Cranium, cville townie

        you'll also have to get onto a visa program that qualifies you for the low pay the "edu-outsourcing" companies will be offering. I know that sounds kind of xenophobic, sorry. I can be a bit hyperbolic in the mornings...

        My own 2 engineer kids are counterexamples of the scenario I just put forth. But then they were in school 10 years ago, perhaps that made a difference. They went to a good school that was still somewhat well supported by taxpayers at the time (in Idaho, no less) and ended up with loan balances just barely into 5 figures. So far, so good for them.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:28:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Plus we have prisons that need funding . . . (5+ / 0-)

      And then after this round of cuts to education takes effect, we'll need even more prisons!

      Which will require even greater cuts to education . . .  

      In other words, a most virtuous cycle for the MIC.  But quite bad for basically everybody else in the country.

  •  Thank you, been meaning to write about this (18+ / 0-)

    My angle is slightly different, perhaps I still shall write it, the story is what's happened to our young people when they finally do graduate.  There's nothing there for so many of them.

    Kids don't get married, what for if the system is too busted to work for it? They move back in with their parents or share a house, see the should-be beginnings of a career--any career--simply wither and vanish, perhaps a beginning can be made as a thirty-something.  With hordes and hordes of desperately driven recent graduates roaring around any chance and any job growing every year, yes.  That's what happens with this incredible recession with unemployment so high for so long, we're finally stepped on a generation, they won't do better than us, there's no way they can.

    I dearly like and admire a young woman from the Athletics Nation community, Kelly, and she so-nailed it with a recent Facebook post that I should have written about. The next time I hear some codger bitch about making it in the rain, in the snow, no food and no clothes, well, fuck you.  At least you had a destination.

    These kids can't take on the world or even their own lives, there is no way for them to do it.  They look around and see the war, the banker bailouts, the nauseating games with tax cuts and there is no way our Party is entrusted with whatever modest dreams they have.  This is an incredibly serious problem for us and we have done nothing about it so far this election season (hello?  when are we going to offer anything for our people that's real, not a war or a tax cut?  anyone home? ).  I am ashamed and disgusted.

    Angry in the comments section again, for this is only one of a host of screaming issues that we should be frantically solving, yet all we are is Not Republicans.  I am not willing to undergo what I feel is brutal censure for speaking ill of The Man and The Party during an election, nor am I willing to take on the reputation of some always-bomb-throwing crank who is so stupid not to be on the team.  

    No, we're not Republicans.  Take a good look around and talk to some of our young people, our children.  We're really, really lost, and it's beyond absurd for any dolt to expect me to be happy about this or cheer it on.  It insults my intelligence and is a terrible affront to the dignity and future of our twentysomethings.  As of now insults is all we're offering our young people, and there will be a price to pay.

  •  I'm ready for a tax revolt. (9+ / 0-)

    Figure how much of my tax goes to war or banks and redirect it to a fund that can only be used to help students pay for college.

    •  oh there's a whole list of things (4+ / 0-)

      it would be wiser for us to spend our money on.

      Getting off oil.

      Free health and dental clinics.

      Making sure no kid in America ever goes hungry.

      Food stamps.

      Utility and heating assitance for the elderly.  

      Mental health programs and other help for the homeless to give them a chance to get back on their feet if they want to.

      I could go on and on.

      (The above was probably snark, for the snark challenged) (The below was actually said by George W Bush in a press conference) I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:37:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pay for education, infrastructure and universal (0+ / 0-)

      health care.

  •  "hates" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, niemann, qofdisks, cville townie

    The absence of love, compassion, or pity isn't hate.

    Hate means to dislike intensely.

    Parents may love their child but refuse to buy their child a BMW.

    A business may ripoff its customers without necessarily hating them. It's just business as they say.

    •  That makes sense. (0+ / 0-)

      Sociopaths don't really hate their victims.  

      They just see them as things to use for their own benefit, and then to toss away like so many no-longer-useful Kleenex.

      I really, really wonder:  When did the U.S. government's #1 responsibility and priority become making sure that everything benefits the profit margins of large corporations?  

      Is there honestly no sense of the public good anymore?

    •  The opposite of love isn't hate-- (0+ / 0-)

      It's indifference. And there is no entity so indifferent to the fate of another as a corporation (or a corpocrat)  is to the people (and other corporations) it's busy making money from.

      snarcolepsy, n: a condition in which the sufferer responds to any comment with a smartass comeback.

      by Uncle Cosmo on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:39:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rate and subsidy laws and bills (4+ / 0-)
    On July 1, 2012 the student loan interest rate returns to 6.8% on Direct Subsidized loans. The "College Cost Reduction and Access Act (CCRAA)", which was passed by Congress September 27, 2007, provided for a "temporary" interest rate reduction for federal student loans. The 6.8% interest rate on subsidized student loans was cut by approximately 1% per year from the 6.8% rate of 2007 with a final cut in 2011 to 3.4%. Those rates were scheduled to return to the previous rate on July 1, 2012 unless Congress passed subsequent legislation that would permanently set those rates at a rate below 6.8%.

    In addition, more recent legislation, The Budget Control Act of 2011, made other significant student loan changes that are scheduled to go into effect on July 1, 2012. These changes affect the federal "interest subsidy" for new loans made after July 1....

    In the State of the Union Address, President Obama urged Congress to pass new legislation to postpone or eliminate these new July 1 provisions. So far, no laws have been passed, but House Bill 3826 and Senate Bill 2051 have been introduced to do just that.

    http://web2.muw.edu/...
  •  Getting things done on time (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, jonnym, Actbriniel, Tamifah, Kamakhya

    is part of what employers look for and part of the value of higher education.

    They're also cutting back Pell Grants. From July onward, once you go through 4 years of Pell Grants (including summers) that's it - all gone. Considering that anywhere from a quarter to half of all college students take longer than four years to graduate this is essentially making it impossible for a sizable percentage of poorer students to get their degrees.
    Sometimes, however, courses can fill up and some students get locked out of a course needed to earn a degree and graduate on time.

    What might be done is for colleges to cap their tuition for obtaining a degree. In return for agreeing to attend Esteemed University, Esteemed University will let you attend up to say 140 credits worth of classes and earn enough credits for a four-year degree for no more than four years tuition.

    •  I can not tell you how many times kids can't get (6+ / 0-)

      the classes they need or they fill up before they even get to their assigned slot for registration.  My son was shut out of many classes due to his status as a freshman and upper-classmen needing a FRESHMAN class while still in their senior year due to the same over-crowding of classes.  

      I sometimes wonder if the "shortage" is intentional to ensure that fifth year of tuition.

      I will speak out whenever and wherever I see racism. Silence is not an option! Please support NFTT 2012

      by Actbriniel on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:30:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  At the UW right now (5+ / 0-)

        freshman courses are filling up before the sophomore registration date; sophomore courses in the math department are filling up before juniors are allowed to register.

        These are courses that are required prerequisites for required sophomore and junior courses not only in math, applied math, and statistics, but also in physics, chemistry, engineering, atmospheric science, and computer science. Fairly- to very-rigid degree programs that require 4-5 years if you take everything on time...and people in them are running 2 years behind because of space issues.

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:37:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is so true. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Actbriniel, cville townie, ladybug53

        My daughter is hoping to receive a Regents Scholarship at UC Berkeley (we find out the complete details on the 29th, but they seemed to indicate it was a done deal).  This is an absolute blessing for us because it not only means getting all the financial aid we need without loans or work study, but it means she will get guaranteed priority admission to any class she wants.  

        Admittedly, UC Berkeley was not where she wanted to go at all and merely applied for the heck of it.  (We live very close and she wants to go away to college.)  However, we are well aware of how difficult it can be getting classes, so between the money and the priority admissions, it is increasingly likely she will go to Cal.  Go Bears!
         

  •  Bringing it back to the DOE isn't a bad idea. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, jonnym, kyril, Tamifah, IreGyre, neighborm

    The for-profit student loan industry is full of kick-backs and shady loan recruitment practices.  Plus, they are all but government guaranteed anyway since students can't default.  getting the loan-profiteers out of business isn't a bad thing.

    •  Hmmmm (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Actbriniel, kyril, Tamifah, neighborm

      I get where you're coming from -- as unpleasant as these changes are, this might actually reduce the ability of private loans to rip people off as they often do. But from a big picture view, it's ridiculous - these cuts and changes will still hurt poor students most of all, which almost seems deliberate to me.

      •  As I view it, you kids are in the midst of a (0+ / 0-)

        shake-down: the fear of god is being put in you that if you don't get a top degree you won't earn a decent wage, and huge profitized loans are being dangled in front of you.  It can't work, everyone cannot be a high-rolling lawyer or doctor.  I haven't seen the movie, but from what I've heard:  Welcome to the hunger games.

  •  This is where tax cuts for rich people (6+ / 0-)

    takes us. False cries that we're "broke" and pain doled out to middle- and lower-income earners. It's a simple question of wealth distribution, and the GOP is determined never to allow that discussion.

  •  We need to control costs (10+ / 0-)

    Subsidized loans are part of a solution, but only part. The other half is the massive increase in higher education costs.

    I teach at a land grant university and our cost structure makes me livid. We build monumental buildings, pay staff administrators $100K+ a year and ... Little of this ever finds its way into graduates brains or skill sets.

    We are on the cusp of a revolution in social media, personal video and life long learning.

    Rather than massive campuses and buildings, why not spend the money on more faculty, on bringing in more practicing experts as adjunct and guest lecturers? Virtually.

    I am actually doing that now in my two business classes. I teach live with web collaboration, record every lecture for later viewing (helps students with part time jobs) and I originate live video lectures from businesses with working experts and real operations - over 4G.

    My test results and evaluations are the same or better than in previous years. Building? I don't need a building.

    The interest on the loan would be a lot more bearable if the principal were half or a third.

    Maturity: Doing what you know is right - even though you were told to do it

    by grapes on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:45:02 AM PDT

    •  Just like medicine (7+ / 0-)

      layer upon layer of high priced administrative personnel that add nothing but stumbling blocks to efficient and effective patient care.

    •  Same with the other bubbles of RE & Health Care. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurker123, Tamifah, grapes, cville townie

      RE has deflated and it is only a matter of time until higher education also does.

      I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

      by shann on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:28:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope so ... but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cville townie

        We have a very perverse reward structure in higher ed. Front line faculty are not rewarded for innovation. They are certainly not rewarded for teaching. They are rewarded for publishing a slew of me-too incremental articles in vanity-press journals. Most of it is a form of intellectual incest.

        That has almost nothing to do with finding new knowledge.
        It has nothing to do with organizing that knowledge for students.
        It has nothing to do with effective teaching.
        It has nothing to do with preparing students for a role in society.
        It has pretty much nothing to do with pretty much anything of value.

        Yet we keep doing it and society still (sort of) lionizes us for it.

        That depresses me.

        Maturity: Doing what you know is right - even though you were told to do it

        by grapes on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:21:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Leeches in the boardrooms... (0+ / 0-)

      An interlocking class of self-aggrandizing freeloaders who pay themselves far more than their contribution merits... and that is of course the whole story of the USA in the past 30 years... those who can control who gets what keep tweaking the system to give themselves even more...

      the incentives and the rewards mechanism are all controlled at the top... they make the deals they ordain the level of cream skimming that the system can bear and they keep going until they weaken or kill their host. The public cannot bargain... their immune economic system has been hit by trickle down political immune system suppression... we cannot get rid of the parasites since they inherently evolve ways to neutralize host rejection. Like leeches and mosquitoes inject nerve deadening agents and anti-coagulants to keep their operations less detectable and uninterrupted they have foundations and FOX and other  Orwellian reality warping tools to do something similar.

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 02:27:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm helping pay for my daughter's education... (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tacet, kyril, Tamifah, Kamakhya, 0wn, neighborm

    ... and I've accumulated a massive debt because we want her to finish with a profession.

    It seems that no one talks about the PARENTS of students who also are sucked into this scam. For me, there was little choice. Even though our loans were subsidized, and my daughter is attending public education schools, I won't be done paying off my share of her school loans until I'm in my early 80s.

    •  Seniors Pay (0+ / 0-)

      I continue working so that I can pay off my kids loans.  For every parent who is doing the same, some younger person is denied a job.  And, that exacerbates the employment situation.

      Given today's low interest rates, there is no reason for these interest rates to rise.  This needs to become an issue.  Isn't a higher interest rate kind of like a tax increase?  Won't this interfere with job creation? (see paragraph above.)

      And the companies in the student loan business are some of the meanest sobs I have ever had to deal with.  Their attitudes and tactics must have been learned while making their bones.  They make stupid mistakes and then refuse to correct them.  Moreover, they dun you for their stupidity and, trust me, it takes persistence and hard work to get situations rectified.  

  •  Rigged Game (6+ / 0-)

    Why is America crazy enough to insist education is the road to the future, the way to a comfortable life as a reward for working hard, and vital to keep the country strong - and then make it impossible to get without racking up huge debts?

    The G.I. Bill gave us a huge pool of people with educations they would have never have been able to get otherwise, and launched decades of prosperity as the Greatest Generation reaped the rewards for the sacrifices they made in WW II - and more than paid back society's faith in them.

    The people insisting on this insanity now have learned nothing from the past; they're on the same side as those who fought against any benefits at all for our returning troops. They're so focused on the costs of making education available, they are unable to see the benefits.

    It's the same twisted morality that insists that if one underserving person gains by this, the entire idea is wrong - even if hundreds more go on to fully justify the investment in them by society.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:11:06 AM PDT

    •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, Tamifah
      The G.I. Bill gave us a huge pool of people with educations they would have never have been able to get otherwise, and launched decades of prosperity as the Greatest Generation reaped the rewards for the sacrifices they made in WW II - and more than paid back society's faith in them.
      We also had prosperity in the form of better wages for the ones who didn't go to college.

      It now seems to be popular for politicians to address wage stagnation by saying "hey, why doesn't everyone go to college?"  Aside from making no logistical sense, it completely dodges the problem.  We won't have economic stability until you can make a respectable living with a high school diploma, just like people used to.

      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

      by Caj on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:20:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unless you include Santorum (0+ / 0-)

        He thinks college is a bad idea.

        And it's getting harder to get any politician to support wage increases at any level - except for the Masters of the Universe. They've all been conditioned to fear increased inflation, loss of competitiveness if the serfs insist on having a living wage.

        One thousand people dividing up a million dollars between them in higher earnings has a lot more impact than giving a millionaire another million dollars.  But you won't hear that from the media.

        "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

        by xaxnar on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 03:06:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Student Aid site says 12 semesters for Pells (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, Tamifah, cville townie

    That's 6 years of college, (or even 5 full year equivalents if you do two summer semesters).  That's more than the 4 years you write:

    They're also cutting back Pell Grants. From July onward, once you go through 4 years of Pell Grants (including summers) that's it - all gone.
    Six years should be plenty of time to graduate for the large majority of students, even for the many students who need to do part-time work while at school (i.e. - many of my friends at Rutgers, and myself during my first two years of undergrad).

    All the other changes are bullshit, but I'm actually ok with limiting Pell Grants to 12 semesters.

    Maybe this becomes a problem for schools that work on a trimester schedule (like Drexel and I believe Northwestern), but those schools are in the deep minority.  12 normal half-year semesters should be plenty of time.

    "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

    by mconvente on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:15:27 AM PDT

    •  Not if you're like me (7+ / 0-)

      and would have to go part-time. I have a job.

      I write the series Confessions of a Retail Worker here on DK. It documents my life in a non-unionized workplace.

      by Lightbulb on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:48:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Full vs. Part time at college (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lightbulb, Tamifah, cville townie

        Do Pell Grants distinguish between full time and part time?

        Wouldn't college students who are always part-time pay on a per-credit basis, rather than a semester fee?  Are Pell Grants (and the application) able to distinguish this?

        My comments were directed toward full-time students who work a little bit part time during the academic year (like at work study or a separate part-time job).  If you're a full-time student, 12 semesters should be enough to graduate, even with working part-time and doing 12 credits a semester (the lowest amount to be considered full-time).

        "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

        by mconvente on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:54:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. (4+ / 0-)

          Pell grants for one class are smaller than two classes which are smaller than four classes, so far as I know.

          I want to go back to school if I get a new job, but I couldn't take more than 2 classes a semester. My current job has no room in its schedule for more than one class -if that.

          I write the series Confessions of a Retail Worker here on DK. It documents my life in a non-unionized workplace.

          by Lightbulb on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:57:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Seems like the limit should be credits-based then (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tamifah

            I definitely think their should be a limit, but a reasonable one - students should be eligible for Pell Grants until they reach enough credits to graduate with a degree (usually 120, for schools where 3 credits = avg. class).  Sure, that might screw things up for people who want to double major, majors with more credits required to graduate, etc., but that should be able to provide funding to the large majority of students throughout their degree.

            The semester thing, I see, gets tricky with 100% part-time students.

            "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

            by mconvente on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:02:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Theory (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, Tamifah

    I think the theory goes something like this:  If we cut student loans and grants, there will be less demand for college-level education, accompanied by lots of empty classrooms and mothballed buildings...until schools realize that they need to to reduce tuition...cut professor and administrator salaries (and especially pensions)...sell off excessively luxurious buildings...maybe even have a few universities go bankrupt...until universities bring education costs back into line with what people can actually pay without loans, just in order to keep their classrooms full.

    The only thing is that I'm not sure the real world will follow this script.  

    •  the only exceptions I take to your thoughts (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sillia, lurker123

      1 - the institutions themselves, and yes that includes the super nice baskeball stadiums and the libraries and the spiffy auditoriums, those things play a huge part in prepping people to understand that they're part of something bigger than themselves. It may not get though all their skulls, but it's there.

      2 - As far as I'm concerned, any teacher deserves as much money as we can possibly give them. Including college professors.

      (The above was probably snark, for the snark challenged) (The below was actually said by George W Bush in a press conference) I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:46:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Administrative costs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurker123, Focusmarker, cville townie

      Professors are not overpaid. Researchers and Professors make a disgustingly paltry sum of money for the years of work it takes to attain their positions. Look at administrative bloat and some of the over the top construction projects for where money is going. When those with PHDs at Ivy League schools doing cutting edge research in the sciences working 50+ hours a week make less than waitresses and entry level management in retail there is a pretty huge problem. I say this as someone with no degree who is with someone who has a PHD. Administrative bloat in universities is the engorged elephant in the room. I only wish there was a way I could afford to go back to school. I wouldn't be able to pay back my loans if I went into research.

    •  It would be a lot easier and safer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurker123

      to cram down costs by addressing where they start. Federal research funding needs to stop funding universities competing with each other to continuously expand, make themselves prettier, and fund administrative bloat (as others have mentioned) that mostly consists of further competing for and profiting off those same grants.

      In order to continue receiving ANY federal grants, universities -- especially private universities -- should be required to keep their costs to students in check.

      Some adjustment should be made for endowment, as well, since those schools with a large endowment can often provide financial aid out of their own pockets, and there is little need for the feds to subsidize it further.

    •  how many university employees HAVE pensions? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurker123

      Because I am one and I certainly do n
      ot.

      "Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center." - Kurt Vonnegut

      by Mister Gloom on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 03:53:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perceptions Rule (0+ / 0-)

        And are to some extent frozen as "how things were when I went to college."

      •  None here-- but we all get retirement (0+ / 0-)

        There are no pensions at my private university, but everyone is eligible for a 403b plan after three years. It's really quite generous: we have to put in 1% and we get a 9% match, each pay period. It goes into TIAA-CREF, which is well run and has lots of options. I'm only about 7% of the way to my retirement goal after 14 years, but at least I see progress and have control over the investment options.

        "Take it easy-- but take it!" --Woody Guthrie

        by Mr Green Jeans on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:37:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well hell yes they hate you! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, sillia, cville townie

    You think behaviorist driven test prep in over crowded classrooms masquerading as education reform is a way of telling you that they support you?

    The only way you are going to get change this situation is to send a message to congress and to the President.

    The current track of education policy in the U.S. sucks and you better change it.

    You can start sending this message by signing this petition:
    www.dumpduncan.org

    and then go here: http://occupywallst.org/...

    Educational experience based on behaviorism is mind control.

    by semioticjim on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:57:01 AM PDT

  •  Recc'd except for the cussing at the end. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Actbriniel, Tamifah
  •  Question (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, cville townie

    If I start consolidating my loans through the government now, but it doesn't become final until after July 1st, does that mean it won't be subsidized?

  •  My son who is paying loans while finishing grad (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, Tamifah, semioticjim, Sychotic1

    school and working full time had this comment.  I find that it doesn't work for me but here is his opinion.  He thinks that if colleges do not receive all the students with government sponsored help they will have to reduce their tuition to attract students.

    What really stands my hair on end is the interest rate.  If banks are paying virtually no interest on your savings, how do they justify charging so much interest on loans.

    •  ten for me, one for you. ten for me, one for you.. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kamakhya, neighborm

      (The above was probably snark, for the snark challenged) (The below was actually said by George W Bush in a press conference) I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:44:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the pell grant thing (3+ / 0-)

    Is, yes, 4 years including summers, but only if you take a full time course load every semester, including summers. You get 12 semesters of Pell. That's approximately 180 credit hours. I need about 130ish for my program, and i am ding it in 5, with no summers and with a transfer.

    "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

    by ChurchofBruce on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 08:43:45 AM PDT

  •  I am almost glad that my son wasn't (0+ / 0-)

    interested in four year college.  Cosmetology is costing me an arm and a leg, so I can't imagine what it would be like if he had wanted a nursing degree.

    "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

    by Sychotic1 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 09:08:41 AM PDT

  •  Why should you pay? Seriously? (0+ / 0-)

    I think I can answer this part of your diary:

    All I know is I'm full of anger and despair right now. I hate the idea that my desire and willingness to learn, to grow, to get ahead, has been viewed as a financial opportunity. I called it indentured servitude before and I stand by that -- I shouldn't be paying a debt for the next ten or twenty years because I chose to learn something. Especially if it's something that could be beneficial to the world at large. Whether it's running X-ray and ultrasound devices at a hospital, machining engine parts, editing manuscripts or something loftier like becoming a doctor or an engineer,
    ....or a college professor....
    I'm providing a service. I'm willing to pay to learn how to provide that service (although I don't think that I should really have to) -- but I am not willing to pay for the next twenty years to do it. Why are the student loan people allowed to profit off of my dreams and work before I get to? Why am I, and millions of other American students, being made to pay for the privilege of serving you?
    Because educating is a service....and those who provide that service deserve to be paid.

    For that matter, loans are also a service.

    •  Because educating is a service.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cville townie

      So we should all pay for say K-12 school too, right? I don't think anyone is arguing that school should not be paid for past K-12, but you are simplifying it by stating people who take virtually no risk should be paid for a service that once cost a fraction of what it does now since the one trillion plus that is out there is taxpayer guaranteed to the lender and the cost of the lender money is as close to zero as one can get.

      The privatization of school loans was the kiss of death for education because they are govt guaranteed; colleges raised tuition costs mercilessly and private lenders let just about anyone have unlimited credit because they had no skin in the game and no risk with the loans. In fact the more the better : " Shouldn't you consider a MD with the JD my young one, just to have something to fall back on? Think about it:  a down payment of only $400,000 which will amount to less than a year's earnings for you(Should they win the lottery, snort)" smiles the Vampire squids, " oh and could you sign this Life Insurance policy for 5 Million on your life with the loan papers?"

      "You Manny, this is Guido, I need a CDS on a new loan  1FD-Douche-Muffan up to 1 Million".

      " Holy shit, is America great or what? If the guys at the buy here pay here car lot could only see me now."

      "Yo Manny, put Douche-Muffan on the black list Bar exams nationwide and Medical Boards too. My kids are gonna love me. HAHAHAHAHAHA"

    •  And who sets the terms of the repayment? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cville townie

      who profits and who sets the size of the profit?
      Cutting out unnecessary middlemen can make things much more affordable. Other countries understand this and don't allow boardroom grifters to step in and take a cut without actually adding much value. Do the direct providers of services get a commensurate level of reward for them or do middlemen dictate the terms and take an inflated cut weighing down the whole system?

      Other countries decide that the nation as a whole is investing in the future in the persons of their students. And the raised level of education and capability drives greater prosperity. The success of greater access to quality education has a much more powerful effect on overall wealth and success of a nation than chiselers sucking loan payments out of graduates for decades stunting their lives during their prime and actually the wider economy and nation as well.

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 02:35:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My sentiments exactly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sixeight120bpm
    To quote the soldier from the Thin Red Line: "Who's doing this? Who's killing us? Does our ruin benefit the Earth?" I dunno about the Earth but it must be benefiting someone. Fuck you, you piece of shit, wherever you are. Fuck you for taking my desire to be better than I am and twisting it into a way to make you rich.
  •  Money, Power, Greed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IreGyre, cville townie

    A long time ago, I read an article on the Republican plan for the United States.    It meant undoing everything FD Roosevelt created and making all citizens a source of money for the power elite.  A good example of this was Blue Cross Blue Shield which was a non-profit insurance company.   The Republicans supported the greedy people who took control and turned the insurance company into a for profit entity.  We use to belong to FORC a non profit coop which served most of the northeast.  It was turned into a for profit company and can now be found on the NY Stock Exchange.   Many of the nonprofit entities in the country have disappeared or will.  The banks have the same goal regarding education - which is why they are so against public education - how tomake money off students.   It's no accident that students-in-debt has risen so much.    Another additional part of the plan is to consolidate power into fewer and fewer hands until we truly have 1984.    I just read another article on the increase in information gathering via the NSC.   This goes right along with the their overall plan.

  •  The attack is ongoing. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IreGyre, cville townie

    Ive watched it build for years. The place where it became undeniable was my second year in high school. Someone had embeezzeled all the school district's money, and they were running in the red as a result. You know what the state did to step in? Told them to keep working despite having all of htier money gone. Which is screwed up for a lot of reasons.

    No they didn ot get additional funding.

    mee wurst troll evurr. nobuddy pay brijj tole; me nott sceary enuf. mee gett drunc an kil sellf. troll droun.

    by kamrom on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

  •  We should go back to how it was when I (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IreGyre, cville townie

    attended Ohio State. In the 60's the tuition was about $1k per year. That was three quarters of a full load of course, and it was an excellent education. No loans needed.

    Tuition should be affordable at state universities and colleges. Salaries of professors should be lowered to reasonable rates where they've gotten too high. My opinion. (Yeah, I was married to a professor for 25 years, too.) They could still have research universities, and others where teaching was emphasized. Something.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:18:15 AM PDT

  •  Here is your chance.... (0+ / 0-)

    To ask Arne questions... http://www.allenuniversity.edu/...

    In the mean time...you could drive a point home by signing this petition:

    www.dumpduncan.org

    Educational experience based on behaviorism is mind control.

    by semioticjim on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:35:41 AM PDT

  •  Welcome to the American 'New Economy' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IreGyre

    I totally sympathize with the tough road for those seeking higher education.  And for those who made the commitment and sacrifice who now are finding it difficult to get decent work to start paying off the loans.

    But this is the result of the direction of the economy that disrespects the need to have more than just a 'service' economy - particularly one where 'financial services' represents a major part of the GDP.

    In our best years, finance was just a means to support manufacturing and agriculture and the many diverse jobs associated with industry.  We exported and manufactured for the world; wealth was represented by the added value that workers created.  Wealth was distributed more evenly through American society and tax policy also more fair.

    Now, that aspect of our economy has largely gone overseas and our wealth and tax distribution distorted in favor of the very wealthy.  Finance is chasing returns by making bets and lending practices have become predatory, particularly in consumer lending.  It is the only way capital in America can get returns for investors.

    Education is a commodity - a very expensive one, but a commodity nevertheless.  It is increasingly being viewed less as a commons to benefit American society and more as an opportunity for private interests to make money.

  •  The wealthy don't like the competition (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IreGyre

    Especially from the poor women, who they would rather be able to prey on in oh so many ways.

    After all, who will they be able to force into doing all kinds of things for them in secret if they don't have a large pool of poor girls and women to choose from?

    Please sign the White House petition to Flush Rush from AFN (Armed Forces Network).

    by splashy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 11:42:33 AM PDT

  •  You have to have priorities. (0+ / 0-)

    I'm afraid I don't disagree with this. If the choice is to spend money on getting minimal education (a bachelor's) to a lot of people or higher education to fewer people, in this day and age I'd say you go with the former.

    And yes, I have an advanced degree.

  •  No Pell Grants for returning students is already (0+ / 0-)

    in place. I'm most of the way through my second B.S. degree and have done the whole thing on loans, since having a previous degree disqualifies you from getting grants.

    Many state grants, scholarship programs, etc., also specify no post-bacc students. This one item is existing law, not future.

    I am not a crockpot.

    by LaraJones on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 01:14:12 PM PDT

  •  1981- 3% simple interest (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neighborm

    on student loans . I had graduated in 1979 and made my first payment 18 months later on $4000 in debt. I believe it was $38/month.

    Simple interest is calculated on the balance. Owe $4000 x .03 = $120.00 per year or if you pay it down it reduces . Pay $1000 and it is $90 /12 = $7.50 a month plus principle. I paid it off in two years. Had I been smarter I would have borrowed everything I could at 3% and bought Treasuries yielding  10% when I started and up to 20% a year after I finished. Woulda Coulda , Shoulda.

    Now it's reversed. The money cost to the lender is negligible but loaned out to the student at 6.8% with front loaded compound interest, much like a mortgage except much higher now and non-dischargeable through bankruptcy.

    I wonder if a student wouldn't be better off taking out as much as they could and going to the nearest roulette wheel at the start of the semester and putting it all on Black or starting a business. Same odds.

     The risk of a student loan not rewarding one with a life time of salary gains is higher and higher. Why not get the default over with earlier?

     If you win, then decide on a nice beach what your future will be instead of working behind the hot grill at Mickie D's.

    Look at it this way, if you default, your are denying the wives of Wall Street Bankers their monthly cash flow when they bought 100s of millions of student loans with money from the Fed through the TALF program. Hell they didn't even bother to disguise. "Christie Mack 225 Million" wife of the former CEO of Morgan Stanley. Then again she probably got the best tranches only (medical School Students). Think of that. Christie Mack getting 6.8% of 225 Million to buy  Non-recourse loans ( meaning the most they have to pay back is 10% of the 225 Million)

    C'mon Kids, The future of the spouses of the 1% are awaiting your crucial decision. Get that $150G worth of 6.8% loans for your future. The female spouses of the wall street gang (at the very least), have huge shopping sprees in Paris that are totally dependent on your decision about your future, except for those with Bachelor degrees in fine arts. Meh.

  •  I'm always shocked (0+ / 0-)

    that advanced education is not free.  Increase taxes and make a 4 year degree free fall all students that pass entrance standards.  If you don't pass the standards you have no one to blame but mom and dad.

  •  Feel like I've been punched in the gut. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Saint Jimmy

    I've been busting my ass for the last several years trying to get into a position where I can go back to college, This was the year. I'll be 29 this fall, and I've spent the last 5 years paying for the inevitable mistakes of irresponsible youth. Now, I'm finally debt free with the exception of a small car payment. I want to go to college, I want to be an engineer. I want to help develop the solutions that carry America forward into the 21st century.

    America is apparently not interested in my help.

    These changes are going to make it a lot more difficult, if not impossible for me to start on my degree this fall. I am not unintelligent, I've done what learning I can unguided, though I still manage to learn more every day. No one will look at my resume unless I have a degree or "equivalent experience" but where do you get experience if no one will hire you without a degree? I understand that these are skilled jobs for which I am currently under qualified, but I want so badly to be qualified. I want to learn, but the golden gates of even the lowliest community college remain barred to me without significant financial aid.

    Sorry that got ranty, This diary really knocked me for a loop, thank you for writing it and bringing it to my attention, but damn. That's bad news. I was willing to go back into debt when I thought I'd have at least half a chance of paying it off again. That's looking less and less likely though.

    "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

    by sixeight120bpm on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 04:37:59 PM PDT

  •  Nearly the entire (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave

    population of America has fallen fast asleep. Society is moving towards a 90%- 9.5%- .5% socio-economic model. 90 percent of America will live in relative poverty, 9.5 percent will be the educated middle class and the uber wealthy 0.5 percent will secure their strangle hold on the economy ensuring that well over fifty cents of every dollar the economy churns out will end up in their pockets. Welcome to the new guilded age.

    •  This may be true, but it won't hold (0+ / 0-)

      While I fear you may be right about the ultimate goal of the plutocracy, at some point lack of access to the middle class will lead to violence against the rich. It always does. It may take years, but once a critical mass sees their access to the middle class cut off for a generation or more there will be reform or blood in the streets.

      "Take it easy-- but take it!" --Woody Guthrie

      by Mr Green Jeans on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:41:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Are there any other countries wih so much... (0+ / 0-)

    ...student loan debt?  How do we compare?

    Canada

    Interest Relief[11]
    Interest Relief is designed to help students meet repayment obligations if they are temporarily unable to make payments on their government student loans because of unemployment or low income. Interest Relief is granted for periods of six months, up to a maximum of 30 months. Some exceptions, such as Canadian residency, may apply. Students may also be eligible for a further 24 months of Extended Interest Relief. Once approved for Interest Relief, students are not required to make payments on either the monthly interest or the outstanding principal of their loan(s) (the federal and/or provincial government will pay the interest on a student's behalf).
    Debt Reduction in Repayment[12]
    Debt Reduction in Repayment is designed to help students facing long-term financial difficulties manage the repayment of their Student Loan(s). DRR lowers the principal amount of a loan, thereby reducing the monthly loan payment to an affordable level based on family income. A student can receive up to three reductions (totalling up to $26,000) on their Canada Student Loan principal during their lifetime, depending on financial circumstances.
    Revision of Terms[13]
    Revision of Terms is a feature that provides students with the flexibility to manage loan repayment in a way that is responsive to individual situations. It can be used to decrease the monthly payments by increasing the repayment period (from the standard 10 years up to 15 years) should a student find the standard terms difficult to maintain. It can also be used to increase loan payments by reducing the repayment period, allowing more rapid repayment of a loan.
    Permanent Disability Benefit[14]
    Permanent Disability Benefit allows for the reduction of loans for students who are experiencing exceptional financial hardship due to a permanent disability. The eligibility criteria varies based on date of loan negotiation and lender. A recent Access to Information request indicated that over 60% of applicants to this program were denied loan forgiveness.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:36:45 PM PDT

  •  They (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Saint Jimmy

    can do this because the elite colleges have lines a mile long of foreign students who will pay to go there. Good times for the rich and elite.

  •  Wow. We appear to be a nation of brutish, (0+ / 0-)

    ignorant, violent louts led by detached, arrogant, dangerously selfish autocrats.  We are completely fucked as a nation.  

    The sooner the cleansing tide of revolution sweeps away this rotting heap of wreckage that was once a great nation, a force for enlightenment, the better.

    Every time I look around, I feel so low my head seems underground. Well, every day just seems to bring bad news. Leaves me here with the post world war two blues. ~ Al Stewart

    by Saint Jimmy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:21:12 PM PDT

    •  And democrats - the "limosine liberal" types - are (0+ / 0-)

      part of this sad, deranged race back to the 10th century.  I think I'm going to throw up.  No health care.  No education.  

      May God damn this bunch of "leaders" to eternal hell.

      Every time I look around, I feel so low my head seems underground. Well, every day just seems to bring bad news. Leaves me here with the post world war two blues. ~ Al Stewart

      by Saint Jimmy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:24:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Student loans shouldn't have any interest on them (0+ / 0-)

    At least subsidized ones shouldn't. I think higher education should be fully state funded like in most European nations so that people are able to go all the way through a Phd if they are capable. But, sadly I don't think the U.S. is acting like a civilized nation anymore so the higher education system will continue to be destroyed.

    The whole idea behind interest is that a lender needs an incentive to make a loan. Interest accumulates on the loan as a way for the lender to be rewarded, and to pay them for risking a default where they do not get their money back. Students that get subsidized loans cannot discharge the debt in bankruptcy, so there is almost a 0% chance of a default. Since they are not at risk of losing their money the interest rates should be near 0%.

    Even if the interest rate was very low, and there was nothing but a minimum handling fee the pure number of students receiving loans would be enough to entice lenders to enter the market and lend money to students. The U.S. needs to do away with almost all interest on student loans, but of course there is no chance of doing this because it is America.

  •  recommend . . . (0+ / 0-)

    Although I was always, through flukes of matrimony too affluent to benefit from this. Just a few scholarships here and. And thousands of bucks I earned poured down the maw for two degrees . . . back when a land grant college degree was quite the bang for the buck.

    I paid, and paid, and never entered the student loan thingie, and always felt bad for people weighed down from that sort of debt.

    In my heart of hearts I don't think much of the sheepskin any longer; it'd been devalued. I think more of the scrapper, the autodidact. Boggling at he obstacles thrown in students' paths, now.

    Sometimes a .sig is just a .sig

    by rhubarb on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:00:29 PM PDT

  •  No statute of limitation on (0+ / 0-)

    the collection of the debt, and no ability to shed the debt during bankruptcy is also crazy.  It's pretty much the only debt subject to this absurd rule.  Medical bankruptcy for those with student loans? Too bad!  You're still going to owe them your $500/mo. Forever and amen.  Oh, and if you go into default, your credit won't rebound 10 years after the bankruptcy either.  If you've had hard times, a $15,000 loan from 1980 can turn into a lifetime burden of debt, even if you've managed to pay $12000 on it....

    "If you fake the funk, your nose will grow." -- Bootsy Collins

    by hepshiba on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:11 AM PDT

  •  glad (0+ / 0-)

    I'm getting out next sem. with a job waiting, I really feel for people just now getting to the starting line. I've worked hard to put myself through college and I'll come out about 10k in debt but I have figured out ill be debt free in 2 years unless i die or just go dirty and then who cares about credit.

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Mahatma Gandhi

    by elchuplewis on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 12:11:48 PM PDT

  •  Student Aid Changes (0+ / 0-)

    Concerned about changes in student aid? Here’s something you can do:

    Voice your support of Senate Bill 2051 – phone, e-mail, twitter.

    Most recent action: January 31 2012 - Read twice and referred to the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions.

    Members of Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions:

    Democrat Members:    Republican Members:
    Harkin, Tom (IA) , Chairman
    Mikulski, Barbara A. (MD)
    Bingaman, Jeff (NM)
    Murray, Patty (WA)
    Sanders, Bernard (VT)
    Casey, Robert P. (PA)
    Hagan, Kay R. (NC)
    Merkley, Jeff (OR)
    Franken, Al (MN)
    Bennet, Michael F. (CO)
    Whitehouse, Sheldon (RI)
    Blumenthal, Richard (CT)     Enzi, Michael B. (WY), Ranking Member
    Alexander, Lamar (TN)
    Burr, Richard (NC)
    Isakson, Johnny (GA)
    Paul, Rand (KY)
    Hatch, Orrin G. (UT)
    McCain, John (AZ)
    Roberts, Pat (KS)
    Murkowski, Lisa (AK)
    Kirk, Mark (IL)

    E-mail addresses for Senate are generally last name.senate.gov, thus Michael Enzi would be: enzi.senate.gov. Not all Senators have twitter accounts, including Enzi. Lamar Alexander’s twitter handle is senalexander.

    Voice your support for House Bill 3826 – phone, e-mail, twitter

    Most recent action: March 29 2012 - Referred to the Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Training.

    Members of House Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Training:

    Democrat Members:
    Joseph J. Heck, Nevada
    Rubén Hinojosa, Texas
(Ranking Member)

    John F. Tierney, Massachusetts

    Timothy H. Bishop, New York

    Robert E. Andrews, New Jersey

    Susan A. Davis, California

    Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona

    David Loebsack, Iowa

    George Miller, California

    Jason Altmire, Pennsylvania

    Republican Members:
    Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
(Chairwoman)
       
    John Kline, Minnesota

    Thomas E. Petri, Wisconsin

    Howard P. "Buck" McKeon, California

    Judy Biggert, Illinois

    Todd Russell Platts, Pennsylvania

    David P. Roe, Tennessee

    Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania

    Richard L. Hanna, New York

    Larry Bucshon, Indiana

    Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania


    E-mail addresses for House are generally last name.house.gov, thus Virginia Foxx would be: foxx.house.gov. Not all House members have twitter accounts. Virginia Foxx’s twitter handle is Virginiafoxx.

VA6thDem, paradox, Angie in WA State, Mimikatz, northsylvania, Odysseus, samizdat, teacherken, Detlef, Geenius at Wrok, peggy, Shockwave, rhubarb, akeitz, Richard Cranium, Matilda, hubcap, zeitshabba, niemann, RubDMC, cinnamon68, opinionated, bronte17, dionys1, ask, Minerva, mrblifil, roses, splashy, revsue, suzq, SneakySnu, Nag, Kamakhya, young voter, TiaRachel, yet another liberal, lcrp, cevad, zerelda, Curt Matlock, ScienceMom, Steven D, J Orygun, NoMoreLies, LakeSuperior, qofdisks, unclejohn, revbludge, Tonedevil, OpherGopher, PBen, Jersey Girl, farmerchuck, Pam from Calif, rlochow, lotlizard, paxpdx, Isara, sillia, Rogneid, JanL, xaxnar, CJnyc, Nance, Orinoco, tobendaro, 8ackgr0und N015e, Gorette, technomage, pengiep, fiddler crabby, neecie100, blueoasis, StrayCat, gatorcog, Native Light, Preston S, ER Doc, middleagedhousewife, Johnathan Ivan, Aaa T Tudeattack, krwheaton, DBunn, One Pissed Off Liberal, possum, Dartagnan, aravir, 0wn, DvCM, la urracca, semioticjim, Cofcos, bnasley, stratocasterman, Killer of Sacred Cows, GeorgeXVIII, bewild, janatallow, eyesoars, the1sage, JDWolverton, rogerdaddy, sprint1745, mconvente, poligirl, OleHippieChick, Sixty Something, Youffraita, treesrock, Greyhound, Calamity Jean, Lujane, Wek, triplepoint, alnep, dragon82a, Gemina13, petulans, enufisenuf, JBL55, legendmn, prettygirlxoxoxo, Neon Vincent, glitterlust, IreGyre, strangedemocracy, astral66, deviant24x, rebel ga, Leftcandid, Words In Action, Just Bob, commonmass, aklib, fidellio, alguien, hepshiba, apip0115, elengul, MsGrin, Oh Mary Oh, soaglow, Actbriniel, Bluefin, Hill Jill, coquiero, vahana, Jasonhouse, slooterdam, evilgalblues, Joe Hill PDX, peregrine kate, CorinaR, Merry Light, Hayate Yagami, stlsophos, Mathazar, SuWho, quill, nominalize, Williston Barrett, nellgwen, Trotskyrepublican, congenitalefty, LiberalVol, Brown Thrasher, james321, Noddy, Victim of Circumstance, history first, Marjmar, JAM11, Robynhood too, Fracturedchaos, Chaddiwicker, nomandates, Yo Bubba, Noctem Aeternus, GwenM, parsonsbeach, Yastreblyansky, Ree Zen, Jollie Ollie Orange, Mikalakalaka, elchuplewis

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site