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    We all know Memorial Day is a day set aside so "we the People" can remember and be appreciative of those who fought in wars to protect, among other things, our First Amendment Right to speak out against our government.

     You would think war vet Senator McCain would understand that very basic fact and at the very least not call people "jerks" when, on Memorial Day, a person in a crowd where McCain is speaking asks: "What about your cover-up for Israel on the USS Liberty John McCain."

     Worse than that, or rather, more important than that is that Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney laughed when McCain called that person a "jerk." Apparently Mitt-the-Draft-Dodger thinks it's appropriate to belittle Americans who speak out against government.  

     I think it is unbecoming of a Candidate for President to laugh at "the People" when they are called "jerks" by a US Senator simply for exercising their Constitutional Right to Free Speech.

     Yesterday, Memorial Day, John McCain called a man a "jerk" who asked, ""What about your cover-up for Israel on the USS Liberty John McCain" and Mitt Romney laughed.

     Watch Mitt Romney laugh after Senator McCain calls a man a "Jerk"

     I doubt that even the man who asked McCain the question was upset he was escorted out ... however, I will say any man, Romney, who laughs when a US Senator calls a man a "jerk" for exercising his First Amendment right on Memorial Day, of all days, is not worthy to be President of the United States.

    BTW: The two biggest jerks in that video I provided are: Mitt Romney and Senator John McInsane.

For the Historical Record:

1) Israel has always admitted they bombed the USS Liberty

... so any person on here calling others Anti-Semite because they want to know why the US Government covered up the details that swirled that horrible bombing must not know the historical facts.

2) Yitzhak Rabin called the Israeli bombing of the USS Liberty a tragic grievous error.

3) Israel has always maintained they bombed the USS Liberty because they did not see the US Flag on the ship.

    Another thing, as one poster below wrote, the reason we have a 1st Amendment right to free speech is so that we the people can criticize government and government leaders without any retaliation against us.  McCain called the guy a "jerk" as a means to retaliate against him ... McCain failed his role as a government leader on Memorial Day, of all days.  One might expect the crowd or readers to call the guy a jerk, but not a member of the government whose job it is to protect the People First Amendment rights without retaliation.

     Many people who are not anti-semite have wondered what, if anything, the US Government has covered up regarding Israel's admitted bombing of the USS Liberty -- the mere fact this guy asked does not make him anti-semite.  Given the fact that Israel admits they did, in fact, bomb the USS Liberty - I sometimes wonder if others accuse people who want all the facts swirling the bombing of the USS Liberty anti-semite as a means of shutting the questioners up?

But speaking of Anti-Semite:
     In 2007 Mitt Romney admitted he personally baptized people into his Mormon religion without consent of the person.  It is public knowledge that Romney refuses to denounce Mormons who Baptize dead Jews into his Mormon religion ... this Diary was not about Jews or Anti-Semite but since some here brought it up, it sure sounds to me as though Mitt Romney is Anti-Semite.

     I stand by my above comment: the only two jerks in that video are McCain and Mitt Romney.

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Comment Preferences

  •  My guess is... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    campionrules, Funnygirl, MadRuth

    ...he's been taking Chris Christie lessons.  
    Mitt probably introduced the two of them.

  •  Sorry, but that guy was a jerk (7+ / 0-)
    a person in a crowd where McCain is speaking asks: "What about your cover-up for Israel on the USS Liberty John McCain."
    Heard that line of garbage spouted by anti-semetic bigots.

    Sorry to say but McPain was CORRECT to call that person a jerk.

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Tue May 29, 2012 at 08:52:56 AM PDT

    •  USS Liberty (5+ / 5-)

      incident was hushed up and covered up by the US government. It is well known the Israeli fighter jets and patrol boats fired on the USS Liberty for nearly an hour with the American flag in full view of their war machines and military. I think you are way out of line calling the questioner an anti-semitic bigot. Perhaps you are a useful stooge of the AIPAC.

      •  Not an AIPAC stooge (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1

        But I heard that people like me bombed the USS Liberty and are traitors to America.

        My past expierence with bigots leads me to say what I did!

        Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

        by Mannie on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:37:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Israel Admit they DID Bomb the USS Liberty (0+ / 0-)

          sorry that historical fact makes you call anyone who talks about an anti-semite.

          Let me ask you: do you do that to shut the questioner up?

          I only ask if you toss around 'anti-semite' accusations as a means to shut people up because Israel admits they did bomb the USS Liberty.

      •  Sigh (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie, volleyboy1, Mets102, livosh1

        While there are many things to debate about the U.S.S. Liberty incident it is a common, common anti-semitic trope to use the incident as a cudgel against Israel and by extension, 'Teh Evil Influence of our Zionist Controlled Government'

        The facts of the U.S.S. Liberty may be disputed by some but the on this website, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence from reliable sources.

        And - theories that are commonly used to bash the TEH JOOOZ are going to get additional criticism.

        The AIPAC stooge thing isn't helpful either.

        Power-Worshipping Fascist

        by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:38:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Israel Admit they DID Bomb the USS Liberty (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          diffrntdrummr
          •  Uh yes. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cryonaut, volleyboy1, Mannie, Mets102

            We're talking about the 'cover-up' - that was what the person asking McCain was talking about. The 'cover-up' is where the conspiracy theorist take hold.

            It's also where, certain people, like to start talking about how the Jews control our government.

            I've seen it multiple times on this very website.

            Power-Worshipping Fascist

            by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:00:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  US Government refuses to Declassify documents (0+ / 0-)

              regarding the USS Liberty

              Thus, there are many, many people who believe there was a coverup due to the fact the USA refuses to declassify the documents regarding that bombing .. DUH

              •  They did? Really? You might be wrong about that (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mannie, leftynyc, Mets102

                Here you go:

                http://www.nsa.gov/...

                Whoops.

                "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:13:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  three still significantly redacted transcripts (0+ / 0-)

                  from after the attack hardly constitute full disclosure.

                  “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                  by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:52:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes because (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mets102

                    the recordings of Israeli pilots during the attack hardly show anything. Right?

                    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                    by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:59:40 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Can you point me to those recordings? (0+ / 0-)

                      I do indeed think recordings of the pilots during the attack would be very informative.

                      But the link you provide here is to the pilots of the helicopters that observed the ship well after the attack had ended.

                      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                      by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:14:00 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I cannot because I misread that (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Mets102

                        however, the reports of the "after action" events are telling. From the Israeli Helicopter pilots reports it is clear that the attacking pilots did not know the nationality of the ship they were attacking.

                        Why do I say that?

                        Well....

                        1. The Helicopters were looking to pick up survivors and were told at first that it was an Egyptian Ship and to take the survivors to El-Arish. Doesn't that show clearly that the Israelis did not know that they had attacked an American ship?

                        2. Had it been a planned operation don't you think the Control tower would have informed the helicopters as to that fact.

                        3. We do have the words of the pilots after the attack.

                        I think the attack on The Liberty was a horrible and tragic mistake by the IAF. What I also think is that 45 years later some anti-Semitic bigots are trying to use it as a cudgel to end U.S. aid to Israel.

                        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:13:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  your link does not say all docs were 'declassified (0+ / 0-)

                  In fact, it says just the opposite:

      •  HR'd for bigoted (calling poster an AIPAC Stooge) (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie, leftynyc, Mets102, JNEREBEL, livosh1

        response.

        The Liberty case was closed and the Israelis admitted their tragic mistake. If you have to use anti-Semitic memes and propaganda to make your case then you really have no case.

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 10:39:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now I am a propagandist (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jakedog42

          for telling the truth. When the incident occurred I was a cambat crew member for the Strategic Air Command and as such had access to intelligence digests of the incident.
          There were, maybe still are, recordings of the Israeli military chatter going on during the attack which supports the accusation that the Israelis knew it was  a U.S. war vessel.
          That attack continued until U.S. warplanes arrived on the scene and fired acros the bows of Israeli picket ships attacking the vessel. The recordings were from the USS Liberty which was a signals intelligence ship off the coast of Israel in international waters during the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
          It is a common cudgel used by AIPAC and the Jewish Anti-defamation league to equate any criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. I see a huge difference between the nation of Israel and jews. While Israel is settled by jews there are many jews worldwide that do not agree with the policies of the Israeli government.  
          My great grandmother came from Prussia in the late 1800's to get away from persecution of the jews at the hands of the Prussian government. My mother and her mother were not religious, but according to the religion that makes me a jew too, so don't be preaching to me about antii-semitism.

          •  Oh bullshit... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mannie, Mets102, livosh1

            The recordings were released by the NSA: http://www.nsa.gov/...

            Don't give me the "I am Jewish so...." line. That is the same as: "I am an independent, but I am disappointed in President Obama because...." It's a bunch of crap, so go sell your line to someone else.

            And this:

            That attack continued until U.S. warplanes arrived on the scene and fired acros the bows of Israeli picket ships attacking the vessel. The recordings were from the USS Liberty which was a signals intelligence ship off the coast of Israel in international waters during the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
            The Liberty incident happened during the 1967 War. FYI.

            If you are going to make shit up about stuff at least get the basic facts right.

            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:19:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Apology (0+ / 0-)

              Yes, I did get the wrong war and I apologize to all for spreading that error here.
                   It was during the Yom Kippur war that I read the intelligence digest. That war stands out in my mind because, at the time I was reading the digest, I was at Anderson AFB, Guam waiting for my plane to get  A type weapons loaded in case the Russians moved into Egypt as they had made threats to do. Their threat prompted President Nixon to place Nuclear forces on worlwide alert. It was a terrifying time in my life.
                   I don't blame the Israelis for Nixon's actions, they had a perfect right to defend themselves and they are admirable in their battle prowess.
              As for the USS LIberty being a mistake, I am pretty sure there were no false flag vessles in the area that could have given the Israelis the impression that it was open season on U.S. flagged military vessels.
              Let the eyewitnesses tell you there story.
              hNew revelations in attack on American spy ship/newspaper/eedition/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,43090.story

              •  Oh for goodness sake... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mets102, livosh1
                As for the USS LIberty being a mistake, I am pretty sure there were no false flag vessles in the area that could have given the Israelis the impression that it was open season on U.S. flagged military vessels.
                AGAIN.. you are wrong. Period. Here is the NSA declassified file WITH recordings from the Israeli Pilots. They clearly did not see a flag and thought it was an Arab/Egyptian Supply ship

                Just read the NSA report and stop trading in A-S conspiracy theories

                "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:57:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah Yes, the Declassified File (0+ / 0-)

                  so the eye witness accounts mean nothing I take it.

                  •  Oh you mean like the Israeli Pilots own words (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mets102

                    During the attack? Like that?

                    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                    by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:26:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You keep referring to the Iraeli pilots' (0+ / 0-)

                      own words "during the attack."  But I have looked through all the links in the NSA report you pointed out (thank you for that, by the way, I hadn't seen that) and can only find the three recordings from helicopter pilots after the attack was over.

                      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                      by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:36:27 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You know what... you are right (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Mets102

                        I thought they were the Israeli Pilots.

                        That said... as I stated before, If the Helicopter Pilots did not know it was an American ship I would say that it is 100% that the Israeli fighter pilots did not know either. One would think, command would have told them ahead of time what kind of ship it was.

                        What is apparent is that the Israelis DID NOT know that it had been an American ship when they attacked as control is asking them for Identification.

                        Here is a comment from an Israeli Pilot involved in the attack:

                        In October 2003, the first Israeli pilot to reach the ship broke his 36-year silence on the attack. Brig.-Gen. Yiftah Spector, a triple ace, who shot down 15 enemy aircraft and took part in the 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor, said he had been told an Egyptian ship was off the Gaza coast. “This ship positively did not have any symbol or flag that I could see. What I was concerned with was that it was not one of ours. I looked for the symbol of our navy, which was a large white cross on its deck. This was not there, so it wasn't one of ours.” The Jerusalem Post obtained a recording of Spector's radio transmission in which he said, “I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship.”7

                        Spector's plane was not armed with bombs or, he said, he would have sunk the Liberty. Instead he fired 30mm armor piercing rounds that led the American survivors to believe they had been under rocket attack. His first pass ignited a fire, which caused the ship to billow black smoke that Spector thought was a ruse to conceal the ship. Spector acknowledged in the Post interview that he made a mistake, and said he admitted it when called to testify in an inquiry by a U.S. senator. “I'm sorry for the mistake,” he said. “Years later my mates dropped flowers on the site where the ship was attacked.”

                        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:56:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, I can't conclude (0+ / 0-)

                          that because the air traffic control at Hazor Airfield didn't know the identity of the ship that therefore the attacking craft didn't know.

                          Other statements seem to contradict the above quoted statement from one of the pilots:

                          As the Liberty passed the desert town of El Arish, it was being closely watched. About 4,000 feet above was an Israeli reconnaissance aircraft. At 6.05am, the observer on the plane reported back to Israeli naval headquarters:"What we could see were the letters written on that ship and we gave these letters to ground control," he said. The letters were"GTR-5" - the Liberty's identification."GTR" stood for"General Technical Research" - a cover designation for the National Security Agency (NSA)'s fleet of spy ships.

                          ...

                          Throughout the morning, the ship sailed on, with reconnaissance repeated at approximately 30-minute intervals. At one point, an Israeli air force Noratlas Nord 2501 circled the ship and headed back towards the Sinai."It had a big Star of David on it and it was flying just a little bit above our mast," recalled crew member Larry Weaver."I was actually able to wave to the co-pilot. He waved back and actually smiled at me - I could see him that well. There's no question about it. They had seen the ship's markings and the American flag. They could damn near see my rank. The underway flag was definitely flying, especially when you're that close to a war zone."

                          Link.

                          Now mind you, I'm not persuaded the attack was deliberate.  I'm much farther from persuaded that Bamford's hypothesis of why the Israelis would go ahead and attack a ship they knew to be American is right.  But I can't agree that the evidence we have to date comes anywhere close to showing this was an accident.

                          “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                          by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:25:13 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Well as I said above, I think the evidence (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Mets102

                            of the conversation between control and the Helicopter pilots is extremely convincing.

                            The Pilots were sent to pick up survivors. Now, if they had known they were Americans why would they have been told that they ship was Egyptian? And plans for the pickups would NOT have been directed to El-Arish?

                            Further, Don't you think that had the airforce known the ship was American they would have coordinated with the rescue teams?

                            Anyway, I remain convinced that this was a tragic and horrible mistake but that it was in the end a mistake.

                            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:34:50 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The right hand doesn't always know (0+ / 0-)

                            what the left hand is doing.

                            It's clear the rescue craft and the air traffic controllers directing them did not know the identity of the ship.  But that doesn't really tell us anything about what other parts of the military knew.  Knowledge is not universal in the best of times, far less so in the fog of war.

                            I genuinely have not drawn any conclusion about whether this attack was deliberate or not.  There are aspects to both hypotheses that are difficult to reconcile.  I somewhat lean towards the theory that it was deliberate, because it's very hard to see how they could have missed the name of the ship, the "CTR-5" designation and the under-way flag given the repeated close observations prior to the attack.

                            Furthermore, I don't have any favored hypothesis whatsoever as to why they would have deliberately attacked a US vessel, if indeed they did.  And regardless, I don't think it says anything about the character of Israel or of Jews.  The history of war is replete with acts which in retrospect are monstrous.  Churchill ordered the fire-bombing of Dresden and the RAF carried it out.  Does that mean the British are evil?  I don't think so.  That's just one random example - I could literally go on for many hours with others.

                            “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                            by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:54:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

                            while you're right the Right Hand doesn't always  know what the left is doing particularly in time of war, in this case I think it obvious that there was coordination with rescuers and command. The Israelis called in the rescue squads AFTER the attack. So that means that the attack reports did not identify Americans and did lead the rescuers to think that the ship was Egyptian or other Arab nation.

                            In fact the Israelis were at one point worried they attacked a Soviet ship. They had no idea that it was American.

                            I have no doubt based on the Helicopter transcripts, and the recollections of the fighters - plus what was reported from the Israeli cabinet at the time (Discussed in depth in Michael Oren's phenomenal book Six Days of War) that this was a tragic mistake.

                            Plus, I cannot see reason #1 the Israelis would attack an American Ship. I simply can't even fathom that, and there is nothing to indicate that it was a purposeful strike.

                            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 03:29:22 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  So I'm looking through this report (0+ / 0-)

                  starting with the oral history transcripts.

                  Lt. Gen. Carter says he thinks the attack was deliberate.

                  Richard Hickman wasn't on board, but says all the witnesses say the US flag was flying and weather conditions were clear.

                  CTCR McFarland testifies the flag was flying during and after the attack.  He also notes that the torpedo boats which attacked had no insignia.

                  ...

                  I'll continue through them all later, but so far this isn't supporting your contention that the NSA reports show the attack was accidental.

                  “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                  by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:25:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Except for the key thing - The Israeli Pilots (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mets102, JNEREBEL

                    You know... the guys doing the attacking. You must've missed the radio reports of when the attack was actually happening.

                    I'll continue through them all later, but so far this isn't supporting your contention that the NSA reports show the attack was accidental.
                    My citing the NSA website shows that perfectly. I mean perhaps you missed where the Israelis say:

                    "Pay Attention, the ship has now been identified as an Egyptian Ship. You are returning home"

                    and

                    "It is an Egyptian Supply ship"

                    The pilots are asked: "Are you able to identify her nationality?"

                    They answer: "Negative - the writing says...."(looks like on the PDF BTA-5)

                    Then at the end of the attack - the pilots identify that it is an American Ship. Up until that point they thought they had attacked an Egyptian Ship.

                    This is further made clear in the transcripts and they were making plans to bring the survivors to El-Arish if Egyptian, Lod if not.

                    Now one would think had this been a deliberate attack (which it was not) that NONE of those conversations would have happened.

                    I suggest you read my cite again if you formed any impression but that.

                    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                    by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:41:51 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes I saw all that. (0+ / 0-)

                      But contrary to your repeated claim, that is not a transcript of the pilots during the attack.  The NSA site very clearly identifies these recordings as "voice conversations between two Israeli helicopter pilots and the control tower at Hazor Airfield following the attack on the Liberty."

                      And yes, the Hazor Airfield controller does make the statement about an Egyptian ship, and also at other times offers alternate directions for where to take survivors based on whether they speak English or Arabic.

                      But again, this does not tell us anything about what the pilots and commanders of the torpedo boats knew.  It only tells us what the air controller at Hazor had been told.

                      I'm not married to any particular conclusion about thi event.  I'm just saying the evidence you point to doesn't say what you claim it does.

                      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

                      by jrooth on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:53:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  As I said above (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Mets102, JNEREBEL

                        The commentary from the Helicopter bears out the Pilots story. I included one of them in the blockquote above but forgot the link. Here it is: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...

                        Further Haaretz had the following story:

                        The documents, originally defined as top secret, were made public by Florida Judge Jay Cristol, who has been investigating the Liberty incident for years and published a book on the subject last year. On Monday, the NSA gave him a transcript of conversations held by two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots who were hovering over the Liberty after it was hit, and these tapes confirm Israel's claim that the attack on the ship, which killed 34 American servicemen and wounded 171, was a tragic error.

                        After the Liberty was bombed by both the Israel Air Force and the Israel Navy, the two helicopter pilots were summoned from their base to assess the damage and evaluate the possibility of rescuing the surviving crew members. An American spy plane, which had been sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack, recorded their conversations, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 P.M. on June 8, the third day of the war.

                        The spy plane also recorded the orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at Hatzor Base, which instructed them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed - thus supporting Israel's claim that it had believed the ship was Egyptian when it ordered it attacked. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were told.

                        Nine minutes later, Hatzor informed the pilots that it was not an Egyptian warship, but an Egyptian cargo ship. Only at 3:07 were the pilots first informed that the ship might not have been Egyptian at all: Hatzor told them that if they found Arabic-speaking survivors, they should be taken to El-Arish, but if they found English-speaking survivors, they should be taken to Lod. "Clarify by the first man that you bring up, what nationality he is, and report to me immediately," the supervisor instructed, according to the transcript. "It's important to know."

                        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:02:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  I thnk you are wrong (0+ / 0-)

      There are many, many people who think the USS Liberty was bombed by Israel and covered up by the US Govt and those people who think that are NOT anti-semite

      Seems you may be one of those who use "Anti-Semite" as a crush to allow Israel to do whatever they want with no accountability.

      Or -- maybe you just don't know WTF you are talking about with regard to the USS Liberty

      •  See my response to the above (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1

        Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

        by Mannie on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:38:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually it is you who don't know what the fuck (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cryonaut, Mannie, Mets102

        you are talking about. The tapes of the attack were released and it is clear that not only the Israelis made a mistake but our own forces did as well...

        http://www.nsa.gov/...

        http://www.nsa.gov/...

        http://www.nsa.gov/...

        Sorry little buckaroo... but your criticism is bullshit.

        Just because "many people" think something doesn't mean that it is right... And in this case it is straight out wrong.

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 10:51:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You FAIL reading your own link Buckaroo (0+ / 0-)

          From your link:

          The attack on the USS Liberty, like others in our nation's history, has become the center of considerable controversy and debate. It is not NSA's intention to prove or disprove any one set of conclusions,
          Your link goes on to say:
          many of which can be drawn from a thorough review of this material. Instead, through these public releases, we intend to make as much information as possible available for the many scholars, historians, academia, and members of the general public who find interest in analyzing the information and forming their own conclusions.
          My point - your links are not even intended to prove or disprove any alleged coverup.
          •  ROFLMAO... you guys are a joke. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mannie, Mets102

            The Links are to the recordings of the attack and to the de-classified intelligence. The recordings clearly show that the IAF Pilots thought it was an Egyptian ship they were attacking.

            ALL the info. in the NSA briefs shows you and your fellow C.T. nuts are wrong, wrong, wrong.

            Now what's next - "TEH JOOZ" control the NSA?

            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:24:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the link does not fully disclose all "classified" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jrooth

              documents.  Redaction are all over the documents which hardly give rise to "fully declassified"

              Also, The Chicago Tribune, which obtained the declassified documents that were released and had them translated from Hebrew, stated,

              "The documents also suggest that the U.S. government, anxious to spare Israel’s reputation and preserve its alliance with the U.S., closed the case with what even some of its participants now say was a hasty and seriously flawed investigation."
              Being more careful, the Tribune noted,
              "Perhaps the most persuasive suggestion that such [U.S. intelligence] transcripts [of the Israeli pilots’ communications] existed comes from the Israelis themselves, in a pair of diplomatic cables sent by the Israeli ambassador in Washington, Avraham Harman, to Foreign Minister Abba Eban in Tel Aviv.
              According to the Tribune, five days after the USS Liberty was attacked, Harman cabled Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban that
              "a source the Israelis code-named ‘Hamlet’ was reporting that the Americans had ‘clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway.’"
              A second cable from Harman to Eban a few days later confirms the U.S. knew and was "angry."

              Since the Tribune published the article October 15, 2007, announcing the new evidence, there has been no comment from the US Government or from Israeli Prime Minister.

              None of your links say all documents have been declassified

    •  The most bothersome point of your comment (0+ / 0-)

      is that you and McInsane FAIL to appreciate the First Amendment.

      The whole idea behind the First Amendment is to allow people to criticize their govt - whether YOU or Govt agree with them or not.

      You are no different from McPain if you think a US Senator should go around calling people "JERKS" just because YOU or McPain don't like what that person said.

      •  people can criticize their government (7+ / 0-)

        and senators can call people jerks if they want. It's all part of the First Amendment. Seems like you have trouble understanding it yourself.

      •  cc - there is a time and place for everything (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bill W, cryonaut, volleyboy1

        To shout that out in the middle of McCain's speech was being a jerk.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:37:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why do you hate cc (0+ / 0-)

          I notice you always criticize all cc's posts and diaries.

          You nor McInsane understand that the 1st Amendment Protects the People FROM Government's Retaliation

          McCain is part of Government and he FAILED his duty of not retaliating against the person.

          •  I think you're failing to grasp (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cryonaut, Bill W, volleyboy1

            how the 1st Amendment works.

            It is protection from government interference or censor.

            McCain is a politician but he is not the government. In this case he is expressing his own personal 1st Amendment rights - as he is entitled to.

            Now, if he passed a law saying no one could criticize him for his past actions - that would be him acting in the role of a government actor and suppressing speech.

            Power-Worshipping Fascist

            by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 10:31:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  TeamSarah - I don't hate anyone (4+ / 0-)

            Hate is a very destructive emotion that it not good for your health. I hate no one, and that includes cc. It's just that cc and I have a very different political philosophy and rarely agree. However, I try and make my disagreement about ideas, and public policy, not individuals.

            In this case the person who was interrupting Senator McCain's speech was being a jerk. I do not believe that speakers should be interrupted as a courtesy to the people who have come to hear the speaker. I have no issue with pickets and signs or any other means of protest that don't prevent those in attendance from hearing what the speaker has to say. It does not matter if the speaker is the President or Senator McCain, shouting out during a speech is rude and is acting like a jerk.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:01:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're being very disingenuous (0+ / 0-)

              I've read you comments to cc - and others - in the past and you have a habit of disagreeing with cc, and others, just to disagree.

              My grandmother would have called you a negatron or contrary mary - where you disagree with people just to disagree.

              I think you and McCain have serious problems if you both think the role of a US Senator is to call people who disagree with government a "Jerk" in public.

              I guarantee you if President Obama had called an American citizen a jerk after they interrupted him you, McCain and the rightwing would be spewing your Anti-Obama hate speech all over the internet.

              •  TeamSarah - I have never spewed Anti-Obama hate (0+ / 0-)

                here or anywhere else. I never spew hate, I don't believe in that type of rhetoric from the right or left.

                I will admit that I do really like playing devil's advocate and enjoy finding statements that try and present opinion as fact or write statements that have no basis in logic. It's what is really fun about being here for six years, bringing a challenging view to everything I read. I spent seven years in the MSM and believe nothing I see written, or on the air, until I can learn the issue from all sides. As part of that process I often find information that challenges statements that are written here. What I have found is that my comments are mostly appreciated because this is a fact-based site.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:15:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I believe I must agree on this point.... (0+ / 0-)

      This was an event meant to honor those we gave all in service to their country.

      Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

      by Morgan Sandlin on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:34:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  USS Liberty incident on June 8, 1967 took place (7+ / 0-)

      in the Mediterranean Sea when Johnson was President.  

      At that time, McCain was in Vietnam and would start his 5 1/2 years as a POW 5 months later.

      If there was a coverup it is highly unlikely McCain lead that effort.

      However this will appear to be reasonable to anti-Semitic bigots.

      The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

      by nextstep on Tue May 29, 2012 at 09:45:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  McCain's father (0+ / 0-)

        was a signatory on the whitewash that was the official investigation.

        Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

        by milkbone on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:21:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even if that was the case, how would Sen McCain (0+ / 0-)

          help in that cover-up while stationed in Vietnam as a pilot or as a POW in Hanoi?

          If his father was potentially involved, then Sen McCain would be the wrong person to chair an investigation.  

          The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

          by nextstep on Tue May 29, 2012 at 01:16:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have no idea (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nextstep

            Perhaps the yelling guy was confused as to which McCain was which. Let's face it, I don't think the yelling guy is playing with a full deck.

            Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

            by milkbone on Tue May 29, 2012 at 04:31:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  It gets old... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Funnygirl, Smoh

    The obvious scorn with which politicians hold the rest of us peons gets old fast.  The fact that so many people identify with such pols is both alarming and disheartening.

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Tue May 29, 2012 at 08:53:28 AM PDT

  •  I might have called him a jerk on this website (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1, Mets102

    If he'd been trotting out Liberty theories as a veiled anti-semitic attack - which, of course, I have no idea if that was this person's intent.

    However, is it unbecoming for presidential candidate to laugh at someone else being rude? I suppose. YMMV I guess.

    The content of the questions certainly doesn't lend me a lot of sympathy to the questioner.

    But again, YMMV.  I try not to get caught up in what is 'becoming' of a presidential candidate. The right wing does that all the time. "It was unbecoming to smoke weed in high school" Boo Obama! - and that sort of attack.

    Eh.

    Power-Worshipping Fascist

    by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 08:57:12 AM PDT

    •  You think Politicians should go around calling (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BitterEnvy, leftynyc

      the people jerks because they disagree with them?

      I agree with the diary author ... it's one thing if you or I, who are not pols call someone a jerk ... but for a member of the govt to call a person a jerk because they disagree with them is totally unbecoming of the office.

      I don't want a President who thinks its funny when someone is called  a Jerk just because others may disagree.

      •  LOL.. The heckler was being a "jerk" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeusExMachina, Mets102

        interrupting a speech with anti-Semitic C.T. is being a "jerk".

        You think Politicians should go around calling the people jerks because they disagree with them?
        I don't care.
        I agree with the diary author ... it's one thing if you or I, who are not pols call someone a jerk ... but for a member of the govt to call a person a jerk because they disagree with them is totally unbecoming of the office.
        Isn't manufactured outrage fun?
        I don't want a President who thinks its funny when someone is called  a Jerk just because others may disagree.
        That's good, but if that's your criteria for not voting for someone that is a tad pathetic. There are a ton of reasons for not voting for Mitt Romney (and John McCain), but, calling someone a "jerk" is not one of them.

        This is just more manufactured bullshit. Don't vote for Romney because you like President Obama. Don't vote for Romney because you think he will wreck our education system, environment, social safety net... etc. Those are all good reasons for voting for President Obama (and the reasons that I am voting for the President). Because Romney laughed when McCain called an anti-Semitic heckler a "jerk" is why you would not vote for him? You have some awfully low standards.

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:08:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  do you call people anti-semite as a way to shut (0+ / 0-)

          them up.

          You are using the old, tiresome GOP tactic of calling people names just to shut them up.  When you do that you are Anti-American

          Also, you can call me an antii-semite all you want because I think there was a coverup ... I also thiink Bibi Netanyahooo had Rabin assassinated for Rabin's role in the Oslo Accords.

          Like I said, call me anti-Semite cuz I don't give a damn, no matter how much you falsely accuse I WILL NOT SHUT UP

          •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mets102
            do you call people anti-semite as a way to shut them up.
            Nope, I call them anti-Semites when they are being anti-Semites and using old tropes and garbage to make a point.
            You are using the old, tiresome GOP tactic of calling people names just to shut them up.  When you do that you are Anti-American
            See above... and now apparently I am "anti-American" as well... Who knew? You don't see the Irony of that above statement do you?
            Also, you can call me an antii-semite all you want because I think there was a coverup ... I also thiink Bibi Netanyahooo had Rabin assassinated for Rabin's role in the Oslo Accords.
            Okie dokie then...... How about Kennedy?
            Like I said, call me anti-Semite cuz I don't give a damn, no matter how much you falsely accuse I WILL NOT SHUT UP
            Well if you insist.......

            The funny thing is that simply put... there is no coverup and the NSA documents prove it. So if you want to keep looking like an ass and spreading anti-Semitic propaganda have at it.

            Since you are into all this C.T. involving "Teh Jooz", I am curious what do you think of this book

            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:47:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Seems you call people Anti-Semite to shut them up (0+ / 0-)

              it is pathetic that you to resort to falsely accusing people being anti-semite ... truly pathetic

              The NSA report does not prove there was no cover up in fact, the NSA states they do not prove there was no coverup.

              Yes, people like you, who falsely accuse others of being anti-semite are as pathetic as true anti-semites as you both use the same tactics: demonize to shut someone up.

              •  No I just call people anti-Semites (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mets102

                when they are anti-Semites. Pretty clear.

                If you have to use anti-Semitic C.T. to make your points... Well then, guess what.

                The NSA report proves beyond a doubt that the attack was a mistake. I get WHY you don't want to acknowledge that but.... It still does just that.

                "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:44:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  The guy was being a jerk (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cryonaut, VClib, Boris Godunov, volleyboy1

    What's the big deal?

  •  some Americans are jerks (5+ / 0-)

    and deserve to be called that. Sounds like a non-story.

  •  McCain was Right - It doesn't happen often but... (5+ / 0-)

    in this case he was.

    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

    by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 10:31:56 AM PDT

  •  Many reasons why Romney should not be POTUS... (5+ / 0-)

    but this is not one of them.

  •  Your update just makes this diary worse. (6+ / 0-)

    Because now in addition to an utterly benign "condemnation" of Romney, you've added a complete misinterpretation of the First Amendment.

    Also, I just searched in vain for your strident condemnation of Senator Barney Frank when he responded to a teabagger at a town hall meeting by asking her what planet she was from.  Please provide a link to your diary on the subject.  I'm sure you wrote one, since you think a politician being somewhat snarky or crass is a massive threat to our First Amendment rights.

    •  Your comment is absurd (0+ / 0-)

      I suggest you take a real history class and a real civic class as Beck U has failed you.

      •  This is a borderline HRable comment from you. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1

        The above poster is entirely right that you're presenting a completely false idea of what the First Amendment means.

        What First Amendment rights of the shouter were violated?  Nothing in the First Amendment protects you from being called a jerk by someone else, whether or not he's a government official.  This wasn't an open political forum, it was a memorial ceremony to honor veterans.  And the shouter's heckling of a speaker about an incident that wasn't even the subject matter of the speech was truly tasteless and inappropriate.

      •  In what way is my comment "absurd?" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1, Boris Godunov

        Please provide authority for the argument that a politician calling a citizen a "jerk" is a violation of that citizen's First Amendment rights.

        Pro Tip:  Calling someone a jerk does not impact his/her free speech rights.

        Also, since you're randomly calling me out as uneducated, I feel compelled to point out that you spelled "civics class" incorrectly.

  •  Good lord (0+ / 0-)

    Your update does make this diary worse.

    Sometimes people's grasp of the how the 1st Amendment works, especially on this website, seems woefully inadequate.

    Please take some time to understand the difference between a citizen(even a politician!) and a government actor and the bounds of what and where they may exercise their own constitutional rights.

    Power-Worshipping Fascist

    by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:22:09 AM PDT

    •  McCain was acting as a Government leader (0+ / 0-)

      yesterday ... not as a private citizen.

      Please take some time to learn how to differentiate between a person in their role as Government leader versus their role as a private citizen.

      Thanks for reading my diary

      •  Ok, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1, jrooth

        Let me try this again.

        Although, McCain may have been acting as a Senator in his role in the Memorial Day celebration he is still not suppressing speech as a government actor.

        There is no right under the 1st Amendment to a 'heckler veto'.

        McCain - even though he is a Senator - still has a right to his own speech - however assholish you may consider it.

        McCain is not the government in this setting - repressing the speech of the questioner. If he was then you might have a point.

        Simply put. Politicians, government employees, SCOTUS judges still have their own constitutional right to free speech.

        It is only, when they are acting as the government - making laws, enforcing or creating statutes and regulations - that the can become censors of speech.

        It's ludicrous to assume that that is what McCain is doing here. It'd be like a right winger claiming that every time Obama says something to rebut a person that he is 'suppressing' that persons speech.

        Power-Worshipping Fascist

        by campionrules on Tue May 29, 2012 at 11:52:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Where does the First Amendment (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        campionrules, jrooth, volleyboy1

        say a government leader can't voice his opinion that someone else is a jerk?

        Nowhere.  In fact, the government leader has the same First Amendment rights as anyone else.

        This wasn't a government policy forum, it was a Memorial Day ceremony.  Maybe you need to learn the when it is and isn't appropriate to heckle public speakers.

        •  Government officials are to protect Free Speech (0+ / 0-)

          not abuse their own.

          Look, if you want your politicians calling you a jerk then great, vote for that guy who calls you a jerk.  

          •  Where does it say (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bill W, volleyboy1, jrooth

            in the First Amendment that a government official can't voice his opinion that a heckler is a jerk?  You've no idea what the First Amendment says with regards to free speech, and you're falsely claiming McCain "abused" his own right by calling someone else a jerk.  You are, in fact, arguing for an authoritarian view of the First Amendment that would restrict someone else's right to free speech (McCain's).

            Here's the entire text of the First Amendment:

            Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
            Since McCain wasn't making a law to abridge this guy's freedom of speech, claiming he somehow violated the heckler's rights by calling him a name is just insanely wrong.  There's also a long history of SCOTUS juris prudence surrounding the exercise of free speech--of which you're no doubt completely ignorant--which establishes that McCain had every right to call the fellow a jerk.  The heckler, conversely, did not have the right to disrupt the ceremony as he did, which is why he got the boot.

            As for your last line, that is ridiculously disinenuous and just comes off as a petty, petulant bit of passive-aggressive behavior on your part.  Defending the right of McCain to call a jerk a jerk does not require me to either want him to do so, nor to vote for him.  You simply must do better at making arguments if you're going to try and persuade people to your way of thinking, because right now you're failing miserably at it.

          •  So your reason for NOT voting for (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mets102

            Romney is because he laughed when John McCain called someone a "jerk"?

            You mean nothing else but THAT made the difference for you?

            I don't think you really understand the First Amendment. Do you?

            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

            by volleyboy1 on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:46:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Was it a Memorial Day service or a political (0+ / 0-)

    rally that was held on Memorial Day?  I see a Marine in full dress sitting next to Romney and if it was a political rally, he had no business being there in full dress.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Tue May 29, 2012 at 12:00:58 PM PDT

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