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      Here’s the biblical definition for recognizing the anti-Christ spirit.  The Holy Bible tells all professing Catholics, Protestants to include Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Greek Orthodox and all the rest how to tell if a person is against Jesus Christ.   I have included three of the many scriptures that all these professing Christians are aware of, but choose to momentarily toss aside so that they can vote for Romney and against a God believing Christian that is President Obama.

        Continued below the fold.

           It is much more than racism that these hypocrites are guilty of rather they are guilty of denying Jesus Christ and stand in danger of damnation!   You see, they are knowingly throwing their lots in with a person who has repeatedly, unashamedly, and steadfastly confessed his belief in Mormonism.  Research Mormonism and find out what he is confessing to and professing belief in.  Yet, no one dares to ask him about Joseph Smith and his visions.  No one dares question his beliefs.  Here are just a few taken from Walter Martin’s book (Martin, 2003):
•    The Bible is the Word of God insofar as it is correctly translated. There are three sacred books in addition to the Bible: The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price.  The Christians know that their Bible tells them in Revelation 22:18-19 that this is wrong!
•    The earth is one of several inhabited planets ruled by gods and goddesses, who were at one time humans on other planets. Mormonism is polytheistic in its core.  Sounds like Mitt and the promise of being a god, right? Christians know better, there is no God but God.
•    The Trinity consists of three gods born in different times and place; the Father begot the Son and Holy Ghost through a goddess wife in heaven. The Christians know and profess that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and is the Son of God.  
          Has he cast a spell over all of America?  Even the atheists are quiet! The scientists and philosophers that rake Christianity over the coals at every chance – haven’t heard a peep from them.  It seems the whole of America has been blinded by this man, an antichrist!  He tells lie after lie after lie and then more lies. And the people lick it up as a dog returns to his own vomit. Disgusting!    
         Where are those people who expound on and promote the Christian worldview? Surely they can’t believe that Romney will move their faith back into the culture. Romney hasn’t done one single thing to promote faith as more than a personal value. However, that could all change once he is in office.  We just don’t know, do we? But we do know that he is mean-spirited, that he has no love for poor people. You can tell a lot about a person just by looking at their relationship to money, especially those that are rich. He cheats to keep from paying taxes on his money!   It has been said that he was to the White House born. It has been said that he is to be a god!  What happens to America, if he should stand in the house on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and declare himself God over all America? Should we all become his boot lickers?  I, for one, am not ready for that!
       I am practicing two Christian disciplines left to me by my Lord and Savior, which is fasting and praying. Jesus has said that this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting.  I invite all real Christians who aren’t ashamed to call on Jesus and stand-alone, if necessary, to fast and pray over the next few months for the outcome of this election.
      I am also calling out every public figure that professes Jesus as their Savior.  Herman Cain, you are a hypocrite. Michael Steele you are a hypocrite. Morning Joe you are hypocrite. Juan Williams you are a hypocrite! Sarah Palin you are a hypocrite!  Rick Santorum you are a hypocrite. Newt Gingrich you are a hypocrite.  All the TV evangelists and not on TV pastors that tell their congregation to vote for Romney, all of you are hypocrites. You are worse than the Pharisees and Sadducees (Martin, 2003) !  All of the Christian schools and seminaries that promote Mitt Romney, you are a liar and a hypocrite.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Exodus 20: 3
You shall have no other God before me.  (This is the first commandment which all Christians should know. If they don’t believe and follow this they should stop pretending to be Christians)

                                      References
Martin, W. (2003). The Kingdom of the Cults. Grand Rapids: Bethany House Publishers.

Originally posted to looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:13 PM PDT.

Also republished by Trolls and Thursday Worst Diary Competition.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (2+ / 0-)

    "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:13:03 PM PDT

  •  Ummmm, No - Playing the Religion Card is wrong (8+ / 0-)

    Article six - forbids a religious test as a requirement for holding a governmental position.

    It should not matter if he is Catholic/Jewish/Presbyterian/Mormon/Atheist/Whatever.

    We should not go there.

    If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

    by Unit Zero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:18:56 PM PDT

    •  That's a misunderstanding of that tenet (8+ / 0-)

      Romney certainly cannot be denied any elected position on religious grounds, but that doesn't mean that his religious beliefs cannot be discussed. The fact is that many voters are voting for Romney because they believe he is a Christian and that Obama is a secret muslim. On those grounds, I think it is fair to talk about whether the beliefs of such individuals are well-founded. Mormons, as a number of Christian pastors have observed, is not in the mainstream of christianity. Indeed many mormon beliefs are, according to the Canon of christian beliefs, blasphemy. There isn't any real doubt about that. It is entirely fair to point out to christian voters that Romney believes things that are antithetical to their faith. They are free to vote for Romney for other reasons, but they shouldn't be voting for him because he is a christian like they are. He isn't.

      The universe may have a meaning and a purpose, but it may just specifically not include you.

      by Anne Elk on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:30:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Call up and let Romney no, before he tells (0+ / 0-)

      us about his Mormon faith tonight.

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:33:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You did notice that I am talking about and to (3+ / 0-)

      professing Christians? I am not suggesting that anyone else should even care about his faith less lone not vote for him.

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:36:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually (7+ / 0-)

        I think that his professions of faith and permitting his faith to lead his policy decisions makes it fair game to ask exactly which are those articles of faith.

        I think like many right wing Christians, the ones he believes and acts on are not the ones that Jesus preached about.

        But knowing Romney, he would lie anyway.

        •  Angela, you hit it on the head. (5+ / 0-)

          We do have the right to know what informs his thinking and his decisions.  However, I wrote this specifically about Christians because what they profess to believe in is  totally against what Mitt believes in. How can they reconcile the two?

          "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:44:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Prominent Catholic leaders criticize Paul Ryan on (4+ / 0-)

            Social Justice issues

            But on social justice issues, Coleman said, Ryan “is weak. There, his positions are not authentically in line with official church teaching.”
            Before Ryan delivered an address at Georgetown University earlier this year, 90 Catholic theologians and staffers at the Jesuit institution wrote to Ryan saying that his budget “appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
            90 Catholic theologians and staffers...
            Added Blaire, the Stockton bishop, “it does not excuse the government from taking its responsibility where it is necessary.”
            •  Nuclear, thanks for adding that. So it is clear (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nuclear winter solstice

              that religious leaders will and do call out pols when their actions do not agree with their faith.  Now that should certainly not endorse Mitt for president.  They must certainly made noise when they didn't agree with President Obama on tenets that are much less serious than the ones that Mitt presents.

              "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:09:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Indeed we do have a right to know. (4+ / 0-)

            If a candidate believes dropping nukes on Iran will bring about the second coming of Christ? That's relevant.

            Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

            by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:10:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Reminds me of Reagan's Secretary of Interior (3+ / 0-)

              James Watt who wanted to sell, cut and drill every National Park:

              "I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns."
              --James Watt, February 5, 1981
              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              I am old enough to remember thinking WTF?

              ;o)

              "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11

              by parsonsbeach on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:00:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly! We do need to know what this man is (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JTinDC

                thinking about the future of America and the world.  Every business person knows that the corporation must be an ongoing concern. Mitt raids all corporation until they die!  Will he do the same to our country?

                "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:04:34 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, you are only addressing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Unit Zero, parsonsbeach

        Right Wing Conservative Fundamentalist Christians because they are the only ones who give a shit about Revelations. See my longer comment. CATHOLICS don't spend a lot of time on that book of the NT at all. They do hear a lot about the Sermon on the Mount, the necessity of helping those less fortunate, and not being a hypocrite.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:10:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dear witch, you may a lot about Catholics (0+ / 0-)

          but I don't think you have much knowledge of Protestants.
          There are more than fundamentalist.  

          I did read your longer reply and responded to it.

          Thanks for coming by. Have a nice evening.  

          "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:33:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Unlike you, I actually made it my business (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            koseighty, Unit Zero

            to understand other versions of Christianity than the one in which I was raised. I know quite a bit about Protestants, fundy and otherwise.  You, however, apparently know nothing about Catholicism,  Anglicanism, and the Orthodox churches. I am not trying to be insulting, just pointing out that a great many of your statements about non-fundamentalist Protestant denominations  and Catholicism and the Greek and Russian Orthodox traditions indicate that you are at best superficially acquainted with how they handle Revelations.

            I have a minor in Christian theology from, I grant, a Catholic college.  We read a LOT of mainstream modern Christian theology of the Protestant flavor. I am also a librarian, which means I spent a lot of years sitting at a reference desk in non-busy evening hours with nothing to do but read.  I read a LOT of books about theology, including reference books which summarize the major religions and denominations in America.

            Religion fascinates me, as does the very modern obsession with Revelations (hey, I've even read some of the loonier fundy writers on this).  I was not content to stay within the ghetto of Catholicism, but I DO know that religion pretty damned well after 16 years of education in it--even I stopped being a member of it 40+ years ago.

            These days I am a WIccan, and I have spent half of the last 30 years living int he very fundy Deep South. I am married to an ex-Baptist Wiccan and all my in--laws are fundies.   I lvie surrounded by idiots who equate my faith with Satanism.  I use libraries where msot of the books on religiona re from a Protestant PoV, mostly fundy.  Knowing what these people around me believe is a form of self protection.

            You, on the other hand, simp0ly can't or won't admit you made a msitake.

            I also think Mittens' religion isn't relevant EXCEPT when it intersects with public policy. It would ahve been acceptable to ask very Catholic but liberal Kerry about birth control and abortion because the Vatican had threatened to excommunicate him over his support for choice. It would not have been acceptable to ask him if he believes in purgatory--because that has nothing to do with politics.  With Mittens,  his view of the Celstial Kingdom and the Mother God (who is married to the Father God) don't matter--but his stand on rape and abortion DOES>

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 08:06:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Mormonism is hardly a religion. It was invented by (5+ / 0-)

      an extremely charismatic and convicted con-artist who was run out of town after town until he built his very own city, Nauvoo, IL.

      He was mayor of Nauvoo, high preiest of the official city temple/religion, nice little theocracy, and general of the Nauvoo militia. And he was running for US president. When some of his people expressed dissent about him in print he had their printing press destroyed. This is the man who made up a bullshit story and fooled people into thinkning he was a prophet. He was a huxter. Plain and simple.

      This isn't like other religions where everyone of those periods has been dead for millenia. Joseph Smith is just a few generaitons back. He was a charlatan who used a made up religion as a means to consolidate power.

      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

      by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:39:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  JT, I see you have done your research. (4+ / 0-)

        We can't just stick our heads in the sands and ignore what Mitt has been taught from birth and believes with all his heart. We do so at our peril.

        "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:46:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't fear a Romney presidency based on his (4+ / 0-)

          religious beliefs. There are ample secular reasons to fear what a Romney presidency would mean.

          But I do believe there's a lot of detail about Joseph Smith and the founding of the Mormon church and certain Mormon teachings that many evangelicals are not familiar with otherwise they'd be freaking out.

          Thirty or forty years ago it was pretty standard for evangelicals to be taught that mormonism was a false religions. They've lightened up on that it seems to some extent over the years.

          I think if those of us who are so inclined pass some of this info along to fundy friends and relatives then maybe they'll pass it along amongst themselves.

          Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

          by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:05:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You may be right. But I think his religion makes (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JTinDC

            him who he is. You know he's just Popeye, he is who he is and that's all he is.

            "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:19:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Let's simply the parameters regarding (2+ / 0-)

            Romney's Mormonism in this election regardless of what the MSM does or does not say about it.

            If Barack Obama was a white male with an anglo saxon name he would be virtually unopposed in this election REGARDLESS of who the Republicans put up against him. The reason why there were so many white Republicans (Herman was never a serious candidate) elbowing their way into the recent Republican presidential primary was they all believed that this BLACK president was highly vulnerable simply because of his "race". (This was not news, Bill Clinton also believed that Obama could be beat because of his racial vulnerablity during the Democratic presidential primary.) Obama as president in actuality had only one SIN, nay one HANDICAP, and that is his "race".

            The problem that the crowded field of Republican hopefuls failed to recognize was  that Mitt Romney was already a seasoned campaigner with a huge war chest that allowed him to outlast the field. It really wasn't supposed to be that way from the prospective of the Christian Evangelicals and the Tea Partiers.

            Regardless of all the blather and bombast, the Evangelicals and the rest of white America are left with one simple stark choice; the sitting black president or the white anti-Trinity cult leader. In other words will America have the moral strength and integrity to overcome their own personal bigotry and prejudice and keep the best leader for the nation in the White House?? Put even simpler, will reason and rationale WIN OUT over emotion and ignorance?? As Shakespear wrote "To Be or Not to Be, that is the Question"....

            •  I agree that there is racism in play, however, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              parsonsbeach

              I believe there is another decision going on and that is to completely shipwreck one's faith and deny Christ in the most telling way, to continue on with the sin of racism.

              At what point does a Christian say I repent , I can't continue on this road and profess love for God.  

              I think we are saying the same thing. Perhaps they believe they can ask for forgiveness after they deny the Holy Ghost and deny Jesus. A lot more serious than denying President Obama.   Do they recognize what has been set before them?

              Thanks for taking time to provide an insightful post.

              "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:13:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Reason and rationale prevailed in 2008. (3+ / 0-)

              Were it not for supression efforts the likes of which we have not seen in half a century and were it not for an staggeringly unprecendented diproportionate cash disadvantage, then I'd look for reason and rationale to prevaile in 2012.

              But we are facing massive supression efforts and we will be massively outspent on ads that appeal to emotion and ignorance.

              As long as emotion and ignorance are going to play a role, I've got no qualms about emotoin and ignorance working to our advantage if any evangelicals can be persuaded to just stay home rather than voting for Mormon Mitt Romney.

              If they're not going to vote for Obama because they think he's a Muslim or because he's black how is it any worse if they don't vote for Romney either because of his religion? If they're voting based on bigotry let's try to get the bigots to just not vote.

              Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

              by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:30:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Too bad they can't see President Obama as half (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JTinDC

                white instead of half black. Unfortunately I learned while campaigning for Senator John Kerry that intelligence and having an articulate speaker don't count for anything. Stupid is in.

                "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11

                by parsonsbeach on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:45:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  ALL religions are made up. (5+ / 0-)

        And that's not meant to be a disparaging comment......................necessarily.


        "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous..........got me?" - Don Van Vliet

        by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:37:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know what you're saying. I'll put it another way (3+ / 0-)

          We'd have a very tough times documenting Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed as frauds, Joseph Smith? Piece of cake.

          Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

          by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:44:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Moses Easiest (0+ / 0-)

            Of those you listed, Moses is the easiest -- being an old babylonian myth and all.

            •  Jews may beg to differ. (0+ / 0-)

              Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

              by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 05:12:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perhaps (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JTinDC

                But that doesn't change the fact that their Moses came centuries after his Babylonian prototype.  Or that the Jews never lived in Egypt.  And as such never left Egypt.

                But hey.  History should never get in the way of religion.

                •  I just know there are quite a few Jewish kossacks (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  koseighty

                  I don't want to be a party to offending them. I'm an atheist, but I try to be a sensative atheist.

                  Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

                  by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 05:30:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You Are Right (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JTinDC, moonbatlulu

                    Thank you for being a voice of reason.

                    I do get lost in the moment sometimes.

                    My point started out that Romney shouldn't be judged for his religious beliefs not being main stream and I veered into offending.  I apologize.

                    I think judging Romney for not being "Christian enough" is wrong.

                    Just as it would be to judge a Jewish, atheist, hindu, Muslim or other candidate by that standard.

                    Romney should be judged for being a lying, self-centered, unfeeling, inhuman sociopath whose ideas for economic recovery and international relations will ruin our nation.

                    •  If GOP fundaloons want to hold his mormonism (0+ / 0-)

                      against him, I got no problem with that. I just don't. Any extra edge we can get, Way too much at stake.

                      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

                      by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 06:04:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with you. Religion is the problem but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JTinDC

          I enjoy reading ancient "Sacred Texts" from all cultures. There's a lot of truth out there but we must "knock and it shall be opened." I don't attend church so those who attend the "mega churches" and vote rethuglican would surely burn me at the stake as a heathen. I welcome their burning.

          ;o)

          "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11

          by parsonsbeach on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 05:02:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  If it were proven (6+ / 0-)

    That Mitt Romney has made specific promises to the Mormon church that there would be special consideration and favors done as a result of Mitt becoming president; then and only then, would it make a difference.

    It would take an awful lot of evidence for that. Conspiracy theories are not helpful and make us look inept.

    It concerns this Christian even more about what promises Mitt has made to those big money donors that would, seemingly, want to go to war. Also, what has he promised the Teaparty for their support?

    Peace, Hope, Faith, Love

    by mapamp on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:30:18 PM PDT

  •  Thursday already? Yikes... n/t (7+ / 0-)

    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

    by angry marmot on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:36:56 PM PDT

  •  I attended Catholic school from (7+ / 0-)

    kindergarten through college.  There was a class in college you could take about Revelations, but that was it--and it was aimed at grad students and Religious Education students, not the rest of us.  The End Times just aren't discussed among Catholics because, we were told, "we know not the day nor the hour."  I think that's true for Episcopalians, and likely more liberal Methodists and Lutherans.

    The obsession with End Times, the anti-Christ, the Scarlet WOman (not so long ago, BOTH were bandied about as representing the Catholic Church--then the Anti-Christ became Saddam Hussein and the Woman, Hillary Clinton....) is almost entirely a right wing fundamentalist Christian form of lunacy.

    FWIW, In the 20 years I was a practicing Ctholic, and the times I attended Mass after to keep the peace with my parents, I never heard a sermon about Revelations. I heard a LOT of them that were anti-choice and a lot that were pro social justice. Catholicism is a very mixed bag, good on some issues, terrible on others (usually involving women, sexuality and reproductive rights).

    I'm a Wiccan  for 40 years so the whole Anti-Christ BS is meaningless to me. Except when my obnoxious nieces decide to tell me I worship Satan, and my religion is linked to the anti-Christ. At which point I tend to laugh and walk out.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:07:54 PM PDT

    •  You have a right to your beliefs. (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for providing the information on what is taught and not taught in Catholic schools. It helps me understand why they would to the slaughter so willing. They don't the treasures that are theirs.  

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:13:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry , seems I'm thinking faster than I'm typing (0+ / 0-)

        It helps me to understand why they would go to the slaughter so willingly. They don't know the treasures nor the instructions that are theirs.

        "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:17:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not my beliefs. oh person who can't read. (6+ / 0-)

        FACTS. Catholics don't obsess about the anti-Christ or play "Name that Monster From Revelations." They don't. It simply isn't important to how Catholics are taught to live their lives. If Revelations is a mythological tale about the End Times, it ain't something they can change. They CAN, however, make life on earth a little better for their fellow men, and THAT is what they should be concentrating on. I went to 7 different schools between K through 12, and never  once did we talk about Revelations. Simply not considered relevant to living a good life.  Also, It's your Jesus who said not to worry about because we know not the day nor the hour--so I think HE would take precedence of some self-proclaimed prophet suffering from ergot poisoning on the island of Patmos.  We were told to concentrate on the Gospels FIRST, the Acts and Epistles second. We were also taught to  concentrate on living an good and loving life--and that all others who lead such a life, whatever their faith, were Saved, though Catholicism was the most correct and secure path.

        I really don't think you know much about Catholicism, the Orthodox churhes or Episocpailians.  

        The only reason ROmney's faith concerns me is its attitudes toward women and reproductive rights and towards minorities.  The rest of their dogma is no more crazy than any other faith, including mine (though mine sums up its dogma in two pages, and has the good sense tor egard any myth we choose to examine as just that: teaching stories, not literal truth).

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:31:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Catholics do believe in Satan (0+ / 0-)

          If not why the exorcism?   If they believe in Satan then they believe in the anti-christ.   Perhaps being away from it the last forty years has caused you to forget some of your catechisms.  

          Let's practice to have a friendly discussion, yes?

          "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:55:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I amnot being unfriendly--merely ACCURATE. (0+ / 0-)

            I haven't forgotten a damned thing from wither the old Baltimore catechism or the new (you couldn't even get the terminology right, which is a strong indicator of how little ypu know aboput the faith).  I stay very much in touch with current church teachings--a lot of my firends are still practicing Catholics, as were my parents. Certain thins don't change--and two of them are church's lack of interest in Revelations  and the celibate hierarchy's obsession with everyone's sex and reproductive lives.

            Until around the late 60s, no one much cared about Revelations, other than seedy preachers with revival shows.  Here, have a look at some info on the current obsession. It began with one Hal Lindsay, whose books I read around 73. I was greatly unimpressed. I reread it in 183 while stuck on the children's room desk at the public library I was a librarian at.  Here's info on that.

            Catholicism has never been obsessed with this.  Yes, there's a belief in Satan--but not necessarily in the literal way fundies see him. Yes, the last two Popes have been far more interested in exorcism than the church had been for centuries--but they are still fairly rare. Catholics don't see demons everywhere, and you will NEVER see a Catholic priesyt having peopel line up at Mass to be exorcised of the demon of smpking or lust or alcoholism--that's Benny Hind territory, not Catholicism.

            In short, in a very polite and friendly amnner, I am telling you that you don't know anything about Catholic doctrine or practice, so stop equating Catholics with SOuythern Baptists or Church of God.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 08:16:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Posts like this sicken me. (4+ / 0-)

    To suggest a Trinitarian litmus test for politicians is frankly distasteful.

    And to suggest that atheists just loves them some Mormons is just downright ignorant.

    Mitt Romney would make a terrible president, but look at yourself for a moment. Are you actually suggesting Mitt holds a genuine, non-malleable belief?

    In America we all have a right to our religious beliefs, so you can call Mormons, Coptic Christians, Jews, Muslims, Quakers, Atheists, and numerous other Christian and non-Christian denominations anti-Christ all you want.

    But I will look on you demonizing other Americans and call out: "For Shame."

    For Shame.

  •  Picking a Jesus is Hard (4+ / 0-)

    Picking a Jesus in America is hard.  There are just so many to choose from.

    Some like the one invented in the 4th century.  But some still like the one invented in the 1st century.  Most pick one of those with healthy modifications for the 21st Century.

    Of course, like most people, Romney didn't pick his Jesus.  He just took the one his parents offered him.  That doesn't make him an anti-christ.  It makes "average" when it comes to religion.

    •  Koseghty, thanks for your response (0+ / 0-)

      However, the definition for the anti-christ to Christians is defined in the Bible. I provided the scriptures in the diary. I am speaking directly to Bible-believing Christians. We all believe in the same definition. I did that on purpose, so that there would be no food fight over the definition.

      You are certainly entitled to believe as you do. But the Christians that I am talking know believe in one Jesus, the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary, in Bethlehem, the one who died on the Cross and took away their sins.  

      They know who they are and they know of the Jesus of whom I speak.

      Mitt does not believe in this Jesus.  And when does he become curious enough to research the truth for himself!  

      My mother's and father's faith can't work for me. I must have my own faith in Jesus Christ.

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:29:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not Biblical (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brown Thrasher, TiaRachel, skohayes

        I do love how Trinitarians who insist that the Trinity is biblical.  It is not.

        Christ, the father and the holy spirit are separate throughout the new testament.  On cross (or was it in the garden?) Christ begs his father to let the cup pass.  The trinity is only really supported in 1 scripture -- one that was a late comer time-wise, clearly showing the whole idea to be a later addition to the religion.

        If you read the new testament in the order it was written and are willing to throw out creeds and dogmas that came later, the evolution of Jesus Christ becomes clear.

        1 - He starts out as a spirit who manifests himself.  This manifestation is jewish with a greek spin.  Perhaps based on the traditional Jewish arch-angel Joshua.

        2 - He then becomes a physical person.  A messenger.

        3 - He then becomes a martyr.

        4 - He then becomes a god.

        5 - Lastly is is merged with God and the holy spirit to become the Trinity.

        Of course, christians will tell me that you can't understand scripture a piece at a time like this.  You must consider all of it taken together.  But that belies the fact that it was written piecemeal, over a century, and none of it by eye witnesses.

        •  Koseighty, this really isn't about the Trinity. (0+ / 0-)

          However, should you write a diary about the Trinity, I would be more than glad to interact with you there.  I believe that God will enlightened the eyes of your understanding when reading scriptures and it doesn't have to be the whole Bible.  I'm not sure which Bible you are reading. But please do write that diary and I will be pleased to discuss the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost with you.

          Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

          May God bless you, keep you, cause His Face to shine upon you and give you peace!

          "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:21:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not about the Trinity? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MisterFred, skohayes, Unit Zero

            Romney is an antichrist because he doesn't believe in your interpretation of the trinity.  But it's not about the trinity?

            Sorry.  My bad.

            •  This diary is a call out to Christians who believe (0+ / 0-)

              in Jesus Christ. It questions how they can reconcile their faith in Jesus Christ and vote for someone who does no believe in the same Jesus.  

              So, yes, this is not about defining the Trinity.

              "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:33:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  So Many Diaries to Write (0+ / 0-)

            As for writing that diary about the trinity...  Won't be happening here.  I'm under the impression this is a political site.  And while religion is the ultimate politics, I'm not going there, not here.

            As for which bible I'm using -- the King James Version, of course.  It is the one and only true translation of the god's word -- or so I was taught growing up.  I've read it many times.  So when I hear the scriptures in my head I always hear the King James Version.  Sad really.  There are much better translations out there today.  But my interest in the subject has wained considerably over the years.  And there is so much actual good literature out there I hate to revisit something I've been over dozens of times just to read it in updated English.

            But think you for the kind words and may His Noodley Appendages Embrace You.

      •  I Must Admit... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Unit Zero

        ... that the idea of Santa Claus being willing to pummel me for not agreeing with him on the subject makes my whole being smile.  It's just too delicious.  B-)

  •  But I thought that the Antichrist was supposed to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Unit Zero, koseighty, Hohenzollern

    be charismatic, likable and silver-tongued? Oh, but wait! Maybe he couldn't make it so they sent Rombot instead.

    •  Common misconception. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brown Thrasher

      Many Christians (possibly including looking & listening?) don't believe in "the Antichrist" but rather many "antichrists."

      For instance, I am an antichrist, though it's a bit of a mis-nomer, since people assume this means I'm against Jesus, which is not true. Rather, it means I do not believe Jesus of Nazareth was or is divine.

      The prophesied super-villian version of "Antichrist" is, so far as this antichrist can tell, a mis-reading of Revelations.

    •  Notice I said he was an anti-christ not THE (0+ / 0-)

      anti-christ.   There can be many that are anti-christ, but just like you stated there will be the one man that is THE anti-christ.   See the difference?

      I like you attempt at humor.

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:38:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Evangelicals Have No Core Beliefs (5+ / 0-)

    Evangelicals are simply a group of naive people who are easily manipulated by godless politicians.

    I remember when there was a big scare about "the Sign of the Beast". That is, the secret (?) number of the anti-Christ: 666. Republicans got Evangelicals all worked up about it.

    Then came Ronald (6 letters) Wilson (6) Reagan (6) and the whole thing slide away for a while (but only for a while, of course, because Republican politicians hold everything available until useful again.)

    Then there was the dreaded ten nations of Europe, led by "Rus" who would lead the invasion of Israel in the end times. The European Union started to form. 5 countries, then 6, then 7. Pulses pounded. Then eight nations. OMG!! Then nine natioins. The end is nigh!! Then the tenth nation joined, and in quick order the 11th and 12th and 13th and the whole thing slid away under the swampy water until it could be resurrected at a later date.

    But the anti-Christ would have a withered right arm, and we could watch out for that at least. Until the Republicans nominated Bob Dole and then John McCain, and that became an awkward belief for Republicans and it, too, slithered away.

    And we all remember when Evangelicals regarded Mormonism as an anti-Christian cult of unbelievers. So the Republicans started the farce that said the Christian Obama was a Muslim. And the Evangelicals rushed out to vote for the Mormon Republican.

    The point is that this is a very easily manipulated group of very gullible people who are putty in the hands of a halfway competent Republican politician. They should be taken seriously only because they vote and because they undermine science and education.

    Bible verses can be cherry-picked, and their vagueness can be manipulated, which is why we have so many denominations.

    Evangelicals have the distinction of being harmful and silly at the same time.

    •  What you say have points of truth. (0+ / 0-)

      Yes, there are those on the fringe, the hucksters, and the snake -oil salesman among the Christians. The tares do grow with the wheat. However, there is wheat. There are some that are sitting in the pews across America that are sincere, they need to hear someone tell them the truth!  

      They shouldn't be manipulated by those in the pulpit and in public office because of their faith. Yeah, I know some go willingly, and even put in with the scheme. But my heart goes out to those that are being lead down the road to hell.

      I agree that they are both silly and harmful.  Both there are the wolves in sheep's clothing and the real sheep.

      Thanks for taking time to post such a thoughtful post. I enjoyed reading it.

      "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:51:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not too late to re-educate evangelicals (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      looking and listening

      about Joseph Smith and Mormonism. It won't get any of them to vote for Obama, but it could get some of them to stay home. A lot of them are having second thoughts as it is over the Todd Akin kerfuffle.

      For some of these people their faith will always come before politics and they know where the line is. There's an opportunity to exploit that. But we can't do it overtly. We just need to provide them with info like I did in my comment above and hope they pass it along to each other.  

      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

      by JTinDC on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:01:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  FWIW: Glenn Beck, a Mormon, likes to tell his (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    looking and listening

    listeners that "The Constitution is hanging by a thread." That brings us to "The White Horse Prophecy:

    The White Horse Prophecy is a statement purported to have been made in 1843 by Joseph Smith, Jr., founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, regarding the future of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and the United States of America. The Latter Day Saints, according to the prophecy, would "go to the Rocky Mountains and ... be a great and mighty people", identified figuratively with the White Horse described in the Revelation of John. The prophecy further predicts that the United States Constitution will one day "hang like a thread" and will be saved "by the efforts of the White Horse".[1]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    Personally I'd like to see the rethugs actually open their Bibles and READ them instead of just waving them in our faces.

    "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11

    by parsonsbeach on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:38:54 PM PDT

  •  The Mormons are taking the stage next! (0+ / 0-)

    In an umprecedented historymaking move, Mitt will have Mormons on stage to talk about his faith. All of you should tune in!

    "He is no fool who forsakes things that he cannot keep, so that he might gain things that he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    by looking and listening on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 05:30:33 PM PDT

    •  Mormons! Kewl! (0+ / 0-)

      I hope its that nice couple that stopped by my place a few weeks ago.  Such nice, polite young men.  Such a cute couple.  :o)

    •  Missed Them! :o( (0+ / 0-)

      By the time I switched it on, it was some guys selling office supplies.

      Mormons on TV.  That would have been something to see.  Oh well.  Maybe next time.

    •  Watched the Mormons (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unit Zero

      I've now had a chance to go and watch the video of "the Mormons" at the RNC.

      I must say I was deeply disappointed after this diarists build up.

      • They didn't sacrifice a single chicken to Satan the entire evening.

      •  They failed to refer to Romney as "Our Lord, Savior and Future God of America".

      •  I couldn't see their horns.  But maybe that was just because of clever hairdos.

      Turns out the Mormons Romney picked were just as boring as he is.

      All-in-all this "umprecedented [sic] historymaking [sic] move" left much to be desired.

  •  Don't tell us; tell the Religious Right-ers. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    Anyone you can peel away from the Romney camp — & get others to peel away as well — will be helpful in November.

    That said: If your reception here is a bit chilly, it's because Daily Kos, as a rule, holds to the "Big Tent" principle — that is, we openly welcome anyone, regardless of background, who wants to help us with our activism goals — & folks here really don't really go for anything that looks like a religious wedge issue.

  •  Yea, I've never understood how Mormons aren't... (0+ / 0-)

    the same as Muslims, in the eyes of Christians. Jesus said he was the big kahuna. The last prophet. The fulfillment of prophecy. The Koran makes plenty of mention of JC. Muslims have great respect for the biblical mythology. They just say another, newer prophet came along after. Just like the Mormons say.

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