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Open Thread for Night Owls
Some people who should know better treat the right to vote and voting itself as no big deal. They say all politicians are the same, that big money demolishes the impact of an individual's vote and that after election day, from the mayor's office to the Oval Office, nothing will change no matter how they cast their ballot. This is balderdash. But, worse than that, it's an insult to the men and women who lost their blood and sometimes their lives in the struggle to ensure citizens' fundamental right to choose their own leaders.

This is not to say that voting is the end-all, be-all of democracy. Voting doesn't solve every problem. Sometimes those leaders we choose turn out to be flam-flam artists, unprincipled, corrupt, stupid, bloodthirsty, or just folks who have managed to wangle themselves a lucrative sinecure. Everybody can come up with his or her own examples. Even many of the good leaders, the honest, well-intentioned, highly principled, forward-thinking politicians, disappoint us in various ways.

Nobody ever said our system isn't flawed, that it doesn't need adjusting or some more transformative change. But while the struggles to make those adjustments or transform how we govern ourselves always begin outside the electoral system—inside the hearts of reformers and "in the streets"—voting is crucial to making those changes. Every reform in U.S. history has started outside the legislatures and executive branches of the state and federal governments. But all that succeeded were also confirmed by elected representatives of the people.

Voter button
Social Security wouldn't exist without pressure from the people. Nor would unions or equal rights for women, people of color and gays. Our rivers would still catch fire from pollution. Ten-year-olds would still work 12-hour shifts in factories.

Some people know full well how important the right to vote is. Spurred by groups like the American Legislative Exchange Council, they've been working assiduously to suppress the vote, specifically the vote of people without political clout—young people, people of color, low-income people. People who tend to vote Democratic. In South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Texas and elsewhere, their goal is always the same: to keep such people from going to the polls by putting obstacles in their way. Not as brazen as in Jim Crow days, to be sure. More clever than that. But with similar impact.

And calling their subterfuge no big deal.

But, like the legislator in Pennsylvania who said the highly restrictive voter-ID law would swing the election into the Mitt Romney column, they know it is a big deal. Making it difficult to vote for just a few percentage points of citizens in a few swing states could mean the difference of who sits in the White House come 2013. Not to mention the impact on state legislatures and Congress. They know this. It is their purpose even as they smile as say "What me, suppress?"

Citizen advocates have been fighting this voter suppression in the courts and by working hard to ensure that people are registered and have the proper identification so their ballots will be counted.

Tuesday, Sept. 25, has been designated  National Voter Registration Day as a way to bring more attention to the subject. You can find registration events taking place across the country by clicking here and plugging in your ZIP Code.

It's a good time to take stock of your personal situation. Are you registered? Are you sure? I moved recently and used California's new on-line registration procedure to change my address so I will be able to walk two blocks to my new precinct's polling station and cast my ballot on Nov. 6 without any hang-ups. I could have asked for one of the state's no-questions-asked absentee ballots, but I prefer to queue up with other voters. However you choose to cast your ballot, however your state allows you to do so, make sure you are set to go even if you have been voting for decades, as I have.

With this little widget, you can fill out a registration form, print it off and mail it in ... or, if you're lucky enough to be in a state where you can register online, as I am, it will take you directly to your secretary of state's website. Do it now! And share it with family and friends. Remember, as Rep. John Lewis said, voting is "the most powerful, nonviolent tool we have to create a more perfect union."

If you have time to donate, join a voter registration group and volunteer to help. The list at the link above contains numerous groups in your area to choose from. Time is short. Deadlines for cutting off registration are fast approaching in most states.

We need public officials in office whose objective is to go out of their way to ensure that everyone who wants to vote gets to do so. Those who throw up obstacles, especially obstacles with a partisan impact, in the way of citizens exercising a constitutional right—a right that racist murderers have tried to destroy within living memory—need to return to the private sector. There is only one way to replace these undemocratic officials and that is to vote them out. Can't do that without completing the first step and making sure everyone you know who agrees in this matter is also registered.


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2011Warren Buffett made his tax return public last month

So yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn and other Republicans were very smug about their latest crassgotcha scheme, demanding Warren Buffett release his tax records (not caring or believing that the Tax Policy Center has backed up the possibility that Buffett's secretary could indeed pay more in taxes than he does).

So here's the thing. Warren Buffett has already made his tax return public.
Appearing on Charlie Rose last month, the billionaire investor brought his tax return along to prove his point about the Buffett Rule, which has become the centerpiece of President Obama's new plan to raise taxes on the super-rich.

A group of Republicans on Capitol Hill is calling on Buffett to release his tax return to the public, to prove whether or not he actually pays a lower percentage in tax than his secretary. Buffett made no secret of the numbers to Rose, and explained how the income breakdown works.


Tweet of the Day:

Anyone notice how error message are getting a little too personal, "the server found your request confusing and isn't sure how to proceed"
@AllisonRockey via TweetDeck





From 9.am. to noon ET, Daily Kos Radio can be found here. Friday's Kagro in the Morning show reviewed coverage from the Senate debates in Massachusetts  and Virginia, and talked polling & punditry trends with Greg Dworkin. From there, it's another extended connect-the-dots session pulling in the "fiscal cliff," the old "Super Committee," Blue Dogs and their dwindling influence, the stimulus plan vote, and Kent Conrad's commitment to the Zombie Simpson-Bowles "report."


High Impact Posts. Top Comments.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Has anyone seen this website... (24+ / 0-)

    UnskewedPolls.com?

    Apparently, if you rejigger every poll's numbers, Romney is kicking the crap out of Obama.

    :-)

  •  Needs more cowbell. (9+ / 0-)

    So, I was browsing recipes this weekend, and ran across a link to this blog, which has this video:


    A lot of food blogs are linking to this 3 minute video of Christopher Walken cooking a turkey. Why? Because it’s Christopher Walken cooking a turkey.

    Just Win, Baby. -- Al Rodgers, Feb. 24, 2012

    by OLinda on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:34:54 PM PDT

  •  Krugman's Monday column: "The Optimism Cure" (12+ / 0-)

    The  column is on Romney & his economic "ideas" which Krugman takes apart.   I also offer some of my own observations in this post to which I invite your attention

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:36:17 PM PDT

  •  Saw Obama and Romney on 60 minutes. (19+ / 0-)

    I think I'll vote for the black guy.

    And while I was watching it, I turned to my wife and said,
    I'm not going to worry about how Obama will do in the debates. I don't know why, after I see him, I ever wonder.
    to understate it, I think he'll do just fine.

    Romney, in contrast, has the credibility of a used-car salesman.  

    "To hunt a species to extinction is not logical."--Spock, in Star Trek IV.

    by Wildthumb on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:39:30 PM PDT

  •  Don't know what others think (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, NoMoJoe, politicalceci

    but I really am concerned about voter fraud....I got a hunch we are going to be right back in 2000 once this is over,,,we will have to wait for a few weeks to find out who won,,,
    anyone else having these premonitions?

  •  Vote suppression is bigger than people realize. (7+ / 0-)

    Just from my anecdotal experience, I've seen at least one person turned away or given provisional ballots in every precinct I've worked in every election. That's often without the kind of coordinated effort we're seeing this year.
    I wonder if anyone has attempted to study and estimate how many thousands of would-be voters are turned away on election day. Even an average of one person per precinct would add up to thousands in a state like Illinois. It would be difficult to determine and I'm not aware of anyone trying.

    •  When the Secretary of State of Georgia (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laurnj

      was justifying going to an electronic voting system, one of her most telling arguments was that using paper ballots they routinely ended up discarding 10% as invalid votes for one reason or another. And that was in the context of historically low voter turn-out.  In other words, even after the universal franchise was achieved (1971), the actual level of citizen participation was unrepresentative. It is getting better. But, as quality goes up, so does the level of our expectations. Which is good, but should be taken into account when we are tempted to cast aspersions.

      We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 02:07:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This Man Is A Dolt (20+ / 0-)
    Photobucket
    Romney Blames Obama for His Campaign Challenges
    Mitt Romney, who has been criticized by members of his party in recent weeks for not campaigning aggressively enough and who trails President Obama in polls in most swing states, placed the blame for his campaign’s struggles squarely on the president himself Sunday afternoon.

    Speaking to reporters as his private charter plane flew from Los Angeles to Denver, Mr. Romney blamed his relatively languid campaign schedule — five public events in the past seven days, compared with 11 fund-raisers — on the president’s decision to opt out of the federal campaign finance system four years ago, and criticized Mr. Obama for, he said, “trying to fool people into thinking that I think things I don’t.”

  •  A simple question for your friends (10+ / 0-)

    who say voting doesn't matter:

    We've been wondering how to get through the clutter and reach low-information voters. Mitt haz it.

    by Crashing Vor on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:44:42 PM PDT

  •  Congratulations Julianne Moore on Emmy win (20+ / 0-)
  •  If Romney wasn't already... (20+ / 0-)

    disqualified from being president by virtue of overpaying his 2011 taxes, I think this statement he made on "60 Minutes" would prove he's totally delusional and therefore unfit for office:

    "I'e got a very effective campaign. It’s doing a very good job."

  •  A dark thought keeps coming back in my mind (5+ / 0-)

    The Repugs will sabotage (again) the Ohio vote counting system, they'll somehow screw up the Florida counting and they'll do similar things in Colorado and a couple of other swing states and they'll claim they won the Electoral College.

    For this reason they need to somehow keep the polls  showing a tie so enough people will believe that it is a possible outcome.

    I guess I need to be straightened out.

    GOTV!  I want a landslide.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:49:47 PM PDT

    •  I agree that there are ways to manipulate the vote (5+ / 0-)

      over and above the suppression and voter id. Not having enough machines or ballots for one, defective machines for another, and there is always the thought that they can monkey with the software as well.

      But you are exactly right. If the amount is OVER 5% then it presents a problem. The people who do that sort of thing know that people will smell a rat if the numbers are too badly off.

      The thing about 2008 - it was a blowout year. 2010 wasn't. This year has to be blowout as well. AND we need solid polling numbers for the down ballot races to inoculate our people there as well.

      American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

      by glitterscale on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:07:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Town Here in Blue NE Ohio Is Severely Shorted (12+ / 0-)

      voting machines. Got it from the town newspaper.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:28:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fight against Northwest Coal Ports just beginnig (5+ / 0-)

    "We don't need someone who can think. We need someone with enough digits to hold a pen." ~ Grover Norquist

    by Lefty Coaster on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:51:35 PM PDT

  •  what do you do if you are not 100% sure (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen

    where, ie which state and county, you will vote? Can you register at two locations to be on the safe side and then just vote at the one location you will end up being?

    •  I don't think that sounds kosher. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, OLinda, nellgwen, bythesea, grover

      I'm no expert, but couldn't you manage an advance vote or do a provisional instead?
      Two registations to be "safe" sounds unsafe to me.
      I can almost hear O'Keefe knocking on your door.

    •  No, you can't do that. (5+ / 0-)

       I don't know why more people don't do mail in ballots.
        That would solve a lot of shenanigans at a poll site like equipment not working.
        I vote every election but I'm not romantic about it like some people are. I do early or mail in.
        I think our elections should be on Sunday. I believe I read in a diary here that France had 85% turn out. If that's true, I think it's because the elections are on Sunday.

      "Is that your vegetarian leather jacket?" George Harrison

      by nellgwen on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:46:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Washington and Oregon (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nellgwen, laurnj, JeffW

        are all vote by mail. Saves a lot of headaches.

        You and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children's children what it was once like in America when 25% of the population was batshit insane.

        by Omir the Storyteller on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 10:31:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As long as you don't forward your mail. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nellgwen, laurnj, JeffW

          WA voting materials are not forwarded whether you move down the street or across the state.

          You HAVE to re-register.

          And if you spend part time out of state (if you're a snowbird for example) and send your mail to that out of state address, you're going to have a really hard time.

          In the old days, all you had to do was vote in person on election date at the school, fire station, church, etc down the street. No problem.

          So vote by mail is a lot better overall, but it's made things complicated for some voters.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 10:52:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  If mail- in is not the major system, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nellgwen, JeffW

        then so-called absentee ballots do not get counted unless the final tally is close and the number of absentee ballots is greater than the difference. Some of the military ballots in Florida weren't available to be counted and the Gore failure to demand a total recount, as well as a count of all absentee ballots, made the charge that they were asking for a discriminatory remedy from the courts valid. Gore messed up. But then, he'd already messed up by choosing Lieberman.
        If we have to have leaders, then it's best they be stupid. Gore was an asset as VP.  On the other hand, in retrospect, there were a lot of stupid compromises made during Clinton/Gore that set the stage for disaster. Clinton learns. I'm not sure Gore does.

        We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 02:26:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is a good place to start: (0+ / 0-)

      Link.

      Hopefully you're joking about the fraudulent registration. Some states will inform you of your voting place when you register. If yours does not, you need to figure out where that is, using tools like the one above.

      •  So far I haven't done anything fraudulent, OK? (0+ / 0-)

        Here the background why I asked that question:

        Poorer people (like my son) have an interest to become in-state tuition paying residents. One of the ways to prove you are resident is to prove you are registered to vote in tha state you want to attend college.

        Though my son is living, paying taxes, having rental contracts in the state of HI for over five years, he still is not recognized as a resisdent. So he registered to vote in HI and plans to vote there.

        But there are circumstances that might force him to leave HI and return back to the state he was resident before and was registered to vote before. He got a voter registration card in the mail from that foirmer state he was registerd to vote in 2008. If those circumstances should occur, he still wants to vote in the state of his former residency and give up to obtain residency status in HI.

        So, I asked, if he should register in both states to at least be sure he could vote in whatever state he would be in on November and be recognized in the college of that state as resident.

        Being registered to vote doesn't mean you actually vote, right? So, even if he would have been registered to vote, he wouldn't cast two votes, and I don't see why the mere registration process in two states is considered already a fraud. BTW he hasn't done that yet. We were thinking about how to do it, if he wouldn't be in HI on November.

        So, we will then consider to either vote early or vote by mail. But if he had to leave HI (for financial reasons not finding a job to support himself living on the island he wants to go to school) and return "home", then he still wants to be considered a resident in his former home address, because he doesn't make enough money to pay for out-of-state tuition there either.

        May be the colleges shouldn't use the voter registration as a proof of residency, especially because the colleges and states have all different rules. You know it's not my fault that the states need to make money out of their out-of-state students and milk those options to the last drop.

        I am pretty upset  that you think I have done something fraudulent.

        In the case of HI, what is when you registered to vote on one island, but have moved shortly thereafter to another island by November.  You think you still get notified were you go to vote? How would "they" be informed where his new address is.

        You know, quite frankly, if it were not for the sake of my son, I wouldn't go through the whole mess of your voting registration process. It's loaded with problems, inaccuracies and injustice and is ridiculously inefficient.

        So there you have it. Consider the fact that you have lost one potential voter for the future, if you can't come up with a better system. Why should I take this crap?

        •  You shouldn't take it. It's pure bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

          The US should obviously have a national registration system instead of a completely separate system for every single county. We need a single address and website where voters can work out this kind of mess. Registration should be mailed to everyone with a social security card when they turn 18. Residency shouldn't matter so much, either, because we shouldn't have an electoral college, we need to simply count the popular vote.

          But we live in a country where the wealthy control the system. They don't want voting day to be a holiday. They don't want registration to be easy. They want voting to be the kind of hassle only they can afford to wade through. They want elections to be focused on a small group of states sparsely populated enough that they can cheaply be bought and manipulated. They don't want to have to compete across the entirety of the country.

          So your son is left to deal with this comedy we call our electoral system. Hawaii's various county registrars may make no effort to coordinate their voter roles - though I found at least one article noting an investigation into 50-60 double registrations from the 2010 election. I'd suggest absentee voting, though that requires either being at the address where a ballot would be mailed or being available to vote on that particular island sometime after Oct 23 when Hawaii starts its absentee early voting.

  •  >10M Hispanics being disenfranchised? A (9+ / 0-)

    study being released on Monday will allege, according to Reuters:

    New voting laws in 23 of the 50 states could keep more than 10 million Hispanic U.S. citizens from registering and voting

    The Latino community accounts for more than 10 percent of eligible voters nationally. But the share in some states is high enough that keeping Hispanic voters away from the polls could shift some hard-fought states from support for Democratic President Barack Obama and help his Republican rival, Mitt Romney.

    The new laws include purges of people suspected of not being citizens in 16 states that unfairly target Latinos, the civil rights group Advancement Project said in the study to be formally released on Monday.

    I'm trying to draw attention to this prematurely because I'll be at work tomorrow and won't be able to follow up until late. Hopefully, someone who sees this will be interested enough to read and report on the study, though given what we already know about attempts to restrict voting by minorities, I'm concerned I won't like what I read.

    We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.” - Sen. Lindsey Graham (AWG-SC)

    by 1BQ on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:58:26 PM PDT

  •  Since this is an open thread........ (0+ / 0-)

    Can I just say RAVENS WOO!

  •  More evidence that undecided voters are assholes (8+ / 0-)


    Sen. Joe Lieberman (ID-CT) says on CSPAN that he is undecided about who to vote for in November (September 23, 2012).
  •  Just saw a NPR article (0+ / 0-)

    about the rural vote and how it makes Romney competitive in battleground states.  How valid is that poll?

    http://www.npr.org/...

  •  local cbs evening news, Denver (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    714day, nellgwen, laurnj

    just quoted a CBS/Quinnipiac poll showing Obama and Romney tied, with 48 to 47 in Colorado. I know I have seen others showing Obama leading, and there is a rec list diary showing a PPP poll and Obama has a 5 point lead.

    Just Win, Baby. -- Al Rodgers, Feb. 24, 2012

    by OLinda on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:17:20 PM PDT

  •  "Nobody ever said our system isn't flawed" (6+ / 0-)

    Oh yes they did.

    When reactionaries jeer at those of us who want to improve the country, telling us to "go back to where you came from" (eastern Washington, presumably) or "America: Love It Or Leave It," that is exactly what they are saying. This country is perfect the way it is, the pinnacle of human civilization. It cannot be improved and anyone who tries is tampering with perfection - nay, with Divine will!

    Maybe no one who thinks about such things thinks the system isn't flawed. But there are people out there who don't do a lot of thinking.

    You and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children's children what it was once like in America when 25% of the population was batshit insane.

    by Omir the Storyteller on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:27:27 PM PDT

  •  Costco Selling Home Solar Electric Kits (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, 714day, bythesea, JeffW, JML9999, laurnj

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:29:34 PM PDT

  •  For the first time ever I was absolutely effusive (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, bythesea, JeffW, greenbird, Lawrence, laurnj

    when I received a political call tonight. It was a local volunteer who was making sure we were voting for Obama and then said he just wanted to make sure we had a way to get to the polls. Of course we are and we do have a way but I was just thrilled to get the call. People like that are the only way we can win this thing.  I told him he was doing the most important work in the country right now and that he was my hero.

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:39:03 PM PDT

  •  Is it only me? (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thomask, nellgwen, JeffW, ColoTim, basquebob, laurnj

    I don't understand why the media hasn't asked Mr. 53% to explain his utterly illogical positions.  As Bill Clinton said, it comes down to one word: "arithmetic."

    1.  Romney's argument:  The only way to get the economy going is to give the "job creators" -- the upper 1% -- a tax cut.

    The rest is from the 60 Minutes interview:

    2. Romney says he's going to cut everyone's taxes.

    Pelley: What would the individual federal income tax rates be?

    Romney: Well, they would be the current rates less 20 percent. So the top rate, for instance, would go from 35 to 28. Middle rates would come down by 20 percent as well. All the rates come down.

    3.  But ...
    we're also going to limit deductions and exemptions, particularly for people at the high end. Because I want to keep the current progressivity in the code. There should be no tax reduction for high income people.
    So Romney's plan is "revenue neutral" -- and Romney admits the inescapable arithmetic:
    Pelley: The tax rate for everyone in your plan would go down.

    Romney: That's right.

    Pelley: But because you're going to limit exemptions and deductions, everybody's going to essentially be paying the same taxes.

    Romney: That's right. Middle income people will probably see a little break, because there'll be no tax on their savings.

    So if the job creators are going to be paying the same amount in taxes -- who cares what the rates are -- how is this plan an incentive for them to create more jobs?

    We must drive the special interests out of politics.… There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will neither be a short not an easy task, but it can be done. -- Teddy Roosevelt

    by NoMoJoe on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 09:39:37 PM PDT

  •  The fact that "voter fraud"... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen, araina23, laurnj

    ...is the media shorthand for "too many poors voting" rather than this...

    "New court filing reveals how the 2004 Ohio presidential election was hacked"
    http://www.freepress.org/...

    or this...

    The suspicious, disturbing death of election rigger Michael Connell
    http://www.freepress.org/...

    ...shows that there is no such thing as a "liberal media" and that Karl Rove is still an evil genius.

  •  DNC montage of conservatives bashing Mitt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pam from Calif, here4tehbeer
  •  This is so off of the wearisome political current (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, jan4insight

    of the day that it set me back and reminded me of what the human spirit is capable of; hope and love and peace, in spite of all of the horrors that roll out to crush it.
    It concerns the journey of a crane folded by a young Japanese girl, Sadako Sasaki, who was in Hiroshima on August 6, 1945.

  •  My next-cube neighbor, the Right-Winger, (0+ / 0-)

    and I were discussing checking voting status.  I asked him if he had checked his status and he said there was no reason for it to have changed.  I said there are sometimes people dropped if they have moved (he hasn't) and if he's ever skipped an election he would be dropped from being able to get an absentee ballot sent automatically.  

    This set him off.  He said that this allows for people who have moved into a house to then be able to send back the absentee ballot that shows up and vote multiple times.  He has to have heard this from some right-wing media source.  They must have been promoting this as some sort of way to skew the vote.  I don't know if the Post Office returns mail back to the clerk's office if they have an absentee ballot to be delivered to an address, or if they forward it (perhaps to the wrong district) or if they deliver it to the house anyway.  

    He also got a call he dismissed without answering on his cell phone.  He said it was a political call and he said they're usually from "my candidate", ie. Obama.  I explained to him my experience with the campaign is that they'd remove him from the call list if he just told them that he's voting for Rmoney and won't change his mind.  He preferred to bitch and moan about all the calls coming to his cellphone despite the fact he's on the national Do Not Call registry which "for some reason is not something political campaigns have to pay attention to".

    At least he didn't say anything about Rmoney.  I'm sure he'll vote Republican straight ticket, but I'm not going to do anything to try and fire up his enthusiasm which must be down in the dumps at this point.

    •  Political campaigns ARE exempt (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, jan4insight

      from do-not-call registries. You see, the law implementing DNC lists was set up by politicians . . . I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

      You and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children's children what it was once like in America when 25% of the population was batshit insane.

      by Omir the Storyteller on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 10:35:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. I tried sparing him frustration, but he (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Omir the Storyteller

        refused help from a Democrat.  So he'll continue to get even more PO'd and he's been given a reason to not be.

        He said he's a registered Independent.  He also says he has never given anyone in politics his number.  I'm not going to speculate on where his number was picked up by the campaigns, but he can stop it.

  •  Romney losing older voters (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, this just in, JeffW
    New polling by Reuters/Ipsos indicates that during the past two weeks - since just after the Democratic National Convention - support for Romney among Americans age 60 and older has crumbled, from a 20-point lead over Democratic President Barack Obama to less than 4 points.
    But the data from Reuters/Ipsos polling - along with similar results from survey data of older voters by the Pew Research Center - indicate that the crowd's response in New Orleans could symbolize more than just one large group's discomfort with the Romney-Ryan ticket.

    A Pew poll, conducted September 12-16 and released last week, showed Romney with only a 47 to 46 percent lead among registered voters aged 65-plus. He also trailed Obama by 7 points among people aged 45 to 64 - a huge potential voting bloc that analysts say is increasingly concerned about retirement security.

    To illustrate the challenge that Romney could face in November, analysts note that Republican John McCain won 53 percent of the vote among those 65 and older in 2008, and lost to Obama with 46 percent of the overall vote.

    http://www.reuters.com/...

    This is very good.

  •  Did You See Mitt's "Boehner Tan" on 60 Min? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurnj
    Holy shit ... they have run out of tricks!!!!!!!!

    "The Internet is the Public Square of the 21st Century"- Sen. Al Franken

    by Kdoug on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:20:23 PM PDT

  •  One nice thing about (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO, JeffW

    where I live, is its rules about voter registration: You never have to re-register again, unless you move out of the county or the state. Once you're registered, you stay that way.

    Thats fantastic. Also, the whole state does require ID, but:

    1. driver's license or state-issued identification card
    2. social security card
    3. credit card
    4. personal acquaintance with one of the election officers in your precinct
    5. another form of identification that has both your picture and your signature
    Which is really forgiving. Its a shame I live in a state currently solid red..

    Now what's going on? Not only is this the wrong defendant, but he's brought his whole entourage along! Kids these days, think they can just do whatever they want. Oh well, moving on...

    by kamrom on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:32:08 PM PDT

  •  Voting is one of a bundle of obligations. (0+ / 0-)

    The obligations of citizenship. Conservatives prefer to argue that voting is a privilege. That's because a privilege is easy to deny and, besides, they don't like obligations from the get go. Obligation means something is owed. That's the antithesis of what the ownership society is about.
    Of course, ownership of things, including people who are treated like things (children), is a sop in the effort to disguise that, in exchange for the right to own things, our basic human rights are likely to be denied. Never mind people locking themselves away in the interest of keeping their assets safe.
    Anyway, in addition to the obligation to vote, citizenship demands that we:
    Hold office
    Serve on juries
    Draft legislation and petitions
    Provide material support
    Enforce the law

    Citizenship demands but cannot coerce compliance. Which it is how it should be in a free society. Not everyone need participate and certainly not all the time. If most of the people do their part, a free society will produce more than enough and a certain number of free loaders can be sustained. The only thing that can't be sustained is free loaders who not only shirk their obligations, but tell the citizenry what to do. Free loaders who hire themselves out to carry out obligations and then turn around to give orders and extort contributions are beyond the pale and need to be removed expeditiously. That's why we review performance biennially.
    Perhaps the word "election" creates a false impression. Perhaps in this instance focusing more on the object, rather than the agent/voter, is in order. "Performance review" is too complicated. "Audit" implies a telling, which may well be a lie. What we need to do is judge and come up with a score.
    So, perhaps instead of election days we should have judgment days.
    This year, that would be November 6th.
    Judgment Day = November 6. Alleluia!!!!!!!!

    We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 01:47:39 AM PDT

  •  I think you know, Meteor Blades..., (0+ / 0-)

    ... that I respect you and care about you (or, you should, but just in case you don't already know, that is a true statement on my part).  You have my utmost admiration as one of the most brilliant people on this blog.

    Up until tonight, I don't think I've disagreed with much of anything you've ever written (or, if I did, it was something you wrote that I missed), so you and I have been on the same page about 99.9999% of the time.  Tonight, however, I have to take a position slightly different from yours.

    You said (regarding voter registration and voting):

    .... it's an insult to the men and women who lost their blood and sometimes their lives in the struggle to ensure citizens' fundamental right to choose their own leaders.
    No person, after the end of WWII, in any quasi-constitutional/legal or outright unconstitutional and illegal war based on lies for oil, has fought and died for any of my rights (or yours, or anyone else's).  Not one!  I was either too young to object or my female voice was ignored if I didn't support the others.  The military people in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq all fought and died for the sake of the profit margins of the military-industrial-complex, then corporations who needed a cheap place to hire slave labor, and, more recently, for the sake of oil and mercenary corporations who want the oil fields, or want to be able to put oil pipelines in another country so they have a way of getting oil from an oil field to the sea ports.  (Yeah, a very few mercenaries died, too, but they were only in the last "war" for the macho glory and the money; I can honestly say I don't give a rat's ass about them and the greed they died for - the oil corporations should have paid for their services, not our tax dollars.)

    If anyone died for my rights, it was during or before WWII, and before I was born.  I do genealogy research, remember, and I have ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War (and one Loyalist who went to Canada).  They did, in fact, fight so they and their descendants (me included) wouldn't have to pay unfair taxes because no one represented them ('no taxation without representation,') and many first arrived on these shores to not only gain a profit to pay back their investors but so they could be free of the monarchy and government-imposed religion (and eventually gain the vote and have that right and privilege since I can't ignore the fact that I'm also a female).

    Since I was born nine months after VE Day, that would mean every person who who fought and/or died in any of these quasi-legal or quasi-constitutional wars or outright unconstitutional and illegal wars AFTER WWII (Korea, Vietnam where I lost so many friends, or this flat-out unconstitutional Bushista Folly in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the continuance of same on Obama's part) has fought and died for ANY of my rights - or yours or anyone else's in this country.  I hoped Obama was going to stop those wars (even though he very carefully selected his words just before election day '08 so I knew he could walk back from those promises); he only pulled troops out of Iraq to settle them in a "friendly" country next door where it would be easy to send them back to where they were to fight again (they're not all home yet, and Guard troops are still regularly being rotated to the Mideast in MN, so I'm assuming that's true for Guard troops in other states), and we are STILL in Afghanistan where it's more dangerous than ever (my youngest nephew refused to re-up after the second tour of duty, told the recruiter he didn't have enough zeros behind the numbers for the signing bonus; he got lucky and came home to finally be with his kids who had forgotten him), and Obama added insult to injury by starting the drone bombings in Pakistan (and goodness knows where else) before he was in office a whole week.  Then he went to collect his Nobel Peace Prize that was awarded to him for his promises and because he was not Dumbya (he certainly did nothing to earn it before he was elected, and has done nothing to earn it afterwards either); heck, he didn't even stay in Oslo long enough for the closing ceremonies and dinner and entertainment.

    We LOST our constitutional rights, thanks to Dumbya, Dickie, and their lying war criminal cohorts, AND (more's the pity) thanks to our Congre$$ Critter$ who voted to pass the Patriot Act, MCA '06 (and Obama's unconstitutional "fix" with MCA '09), and the FISA fiasco '08 (which Obama voted for); three days after Obama voted FOR the FISA fiasco in '08, he said if he were elected he'd expand and increase funding for the 'office of faith-based initiatives,' an unconstitutional office by anyone's normal standards (so much for his 'constitutional scholar' credentials).  All these unconstitutional things have been extended in the Obama years.  We STILL do not have our rights returned to us because none of our "Dear Leaders" (legislative or executive branches of government, in particular) have seen fit to repeal those erroneously-passed pieces of $h!te legislation.  Adding insult to injury, Obama is going after whistleblowers like they are the ones who are the criminals (just exactly like Dumbya and Dickie did), not the ones who are reporting illegalities by others, and the whistleblowers are the ones who are supposed to be protected by our laws!  How demeaning - and wrong - of our DoJ, Holder, and even Obama, for that matter!  So..... WHEN do you think we might expect our three branches of government to give us back our rights by repealing those unconstitutional pieces of legislation...?

    Nor, for that matter, thanks to the Citizen's United decision by $COTU$, will the American people ever be able to freely elect people to represent us because rich corporations can use money as "First Amendment free speech" and buy the votes of OUR Congress Critters - the people WE elected to represent US (corporations as people, my big fat arse; they can't vote, but they can buy politicians).  So far as I can tell, the only senator who tries to work on behalf of We The People is Bernie Sanders, and he's trying to get a bill through Congress to make Citizen's United unconstitutional.  More power to him!  (My own two Dem senators and my previous Dem rep almost always vote with the Repukes, and it is pissing me off no end.)

    Then there was the matter of health care insurance.  No one in Congress, except Dennis Kucinich, wanted a single-payer, not-for-profit, government-run health care system (Kucinich was regularly and soundly denigrated here on DK before the '08 election regarding single-payer not-for-profit health insurance).  The insurance, medical, and pharmaceutical corporations (the latter left over from the Medicare fraud perpetrated on seniors and disabled people who were forced to pay corporations for prescription insurance because of laws passed when Dumbya was in office) used their money to buy both our Congre$$ Critter$ AND Obama who sounded semi-friendly to a single-payer system before the election.  After the election, it was the same old excuse I heard "Impeachment-is-off-the-table" Pelosi and Reid whine about when Repukes had them over a barrel during those miserable gawdforsaken Bushista years: 'Well, this is the best we can do for now, so we might as well pass it and we can work to change it later.'  Bull$h!t!!!  Later came..., and yet another fucked-up $COTU$ decision that says it's constitutional for us to be forced to pay a for-profit insurance corporation since it can now "magically" be considered a tax, as can the penalty for those who don't want it have to fork over a fine if they don't want to give a corporation more windfall profits (and we all know that the next corporations to have "record-setting-profits" will be insurance, medical, and pharmaceutical corporations.  Well, isn't that precious?

    The PRACTICAL - and FAR less costly - thing to do would be to put everyone into Medicare (infrastructure is in place, it actually runs efficiently, it costs less because it's not-for-profit so there's no overhead needed to pay for executive bonuses and stockholder shares, and hiring more Americans here in this country to handle the paperwork would create new jobs - and payroll taxes).  Remember how hard diarists here on the Great Orange Satan begged us to urge, coax, then demand and beg our Congre$$ Critter$ via emails, phone calls, faxes, going to meetings when they came home on breaks, to pass a 'single-payer health care insurance plan?'  I do.  I also knew with the cement-hard passiveness that Obama and our Congre$$ Critter$ exhibited that a single-payer health-care plan administered by Medicare and handled at the government level (like civilized countries in Europe do) was the very last thing that any of them (except Kucinich) would consider.  Even Kucinich, the last hold-out, folded after a ride on AF-1.  So, now we are stuck with a ginormous financial boondoggle for health care in the future and prices will continue to go up, up, up, and up some more because not one of our cowardly Congre$$ Critter$ has the courage to put caps on their profits WE are forced to provide.

    [Oh, another "loophole" - and slick way of laundering money between pharmaceutical and insurance corporations:  One of my gout meds, the one I know works by itself with no other meds, in spite of diarrhea as a severe side effect if one takes it at full dosage during a major gout attack, is no longer going to be covered by Medicare Part D insurance in the fairly near future.  It currently costs me a few cents under $10 every three months for one of my two gout meds because they're generic; I'm poor and getting Social Security, but I can afford that.  My druggist informed me a couple of months ago that the drug companies will no longer make the cheap one (with the SAME ingredients it's had for centuries since colchicine is a known and proven remedy for severe gout attacks!)..., but instead the SAME pill will be made, with exactly the SAME ingredients, only this time it's gotten full FDA approval, it's now been trademarked/copyrighted, and the pharmacist's price he has to pay to obtain it is close to $500 for the same amount of pills.  Figure out the profit margin.  I don't even know if I will be able to get the one pill that actually works if I have another super severe gout attack in the future, but if I do, the insurance company will have to be able to fork over the money 'cuz I can't.]

    Meanwhile, the illegal wars continue, no one with half a brain gives a damn because we still want all our troops home and neither Congress nor the president are listening to us about that issue; the president has taken it upon himself (apparently) to authorize drone bombing which violates the Constitution (just like Dumbya!) since only Congress can authorize legal and constitutional wars and authorize the amount of money spent on them.  The prisoners are still at Gitmo.  WE THE PEOPLE STILL do not have our rights because those POS laws passed during Bushista's time have not been officially repealed.  Wall Street and the banks are still out of control because Gramm-Leach-Bliley has not been repealed and Glass-Steagall reinstated.... et cetera and so on and so forth.

    Obama and some Dems have fallen into calling Earned Benefits we receive with Social Security and Medicare "entitlements."  I think under Obama our political a$$hole$ of both political parties will start "fixing" both, and in so doing fix what was never broken, and all so their friendly investment bankers and bankers and Wall Street gamblers can siphon off our "surplus" money to divert it to offshore accounts (like what Enron and those felons did).

    I think the wars and (clandestine) torture will continue, and none of us will have a clue as to why they're being fought.  Already we don't know why (except for the one for oil, that is).

    I think some state legislatures will fold to the fanatic reichwingnuts and take abortion and other reproductive choices away from women and some will end up being the stereotypical 'good ol' boy's woman: barefoot and pregnant.'  When choices re taken away, severe depression sets in.  Sadly, some will die (needlessly, just like my maternal grandmother) without those choices which will again be made illegal again (the fundie churches have as much money as corporations, maybe more).

    Oh, I'll likely hold my nose and vote for evil again - "lesser of two evils" is STILL voting for evil 'cuz my choices have been taken away as long as the Congre$$ Critter$ are all taking corporate and banking and Wall Street bribes.  The only "guarantee" we have is that after election day the people WE "elected" will sure as hell NOT be paying attention to us pesky little voters.  They'll go back to politely listening just before the next election day.  (We elect the electors anyway.  They don't really have to vote for the people we tell them to.  Sometimes the electoral college works well, but I'm no longer sure we need it as long as $COTU$ can stop a vote recount, and as long as e-voting machines in other states can be rigged and do not have a paper trail for a valid recount.  Those elections can be stolen out from under us, as the 2000 and '04 elections were.)

    As far as registering?  I live in Minnesota.  Guano Loco Bachmann and her idiot supporters aside, our voting registration laws were made way back when we were mostly an agrarian economy and farmers couldn't be gallivanting higher, thither, and yon just to go register to vote; they had farms to run, cows to milk, fences to build, etc.  Hence, same/election day voter registration was the most efficient way of doing things, and no mucking about with having to do so every year; it still is.  I registered when I moved umpteen years ago.  I do not have to re-register unless I move where I'll have to vote in a different precinct.  My name shows up on the same printout every election day at the same polling precinct year after year after year after year.  I vote by filling in the ovals on a paper ballot.  When I'm done, I check to make sure I've voted for the Democrats, then take the ballot and run it through the optical scanner.  I then collect my little "I Voted" sticker and exit.  Takes all of five minutes as long as I go in the early morning when no one else is around.  (There are voter registration forms all over, including one in the phone book.  It's easy enough to re-register for a new address if/when it becomes necessary.)

    There's a stupid referendum to vote on this year about voter ID cards that the state legislature with the new Repuke majority (for the first time in over a quarter of a century) wants passed.  I will be voting against it.  After the '62 governor recount, the '08 senatorial recount, and the '10 governor recount (and a couple of smaller local races that needed recounts) where ZERO voter fraud was discovered, you'd think they know better than to waste our time like that..., but, noooooooooooooo....  Idiots!

    As long as we defeat that idiotic referendum and leave the voter registration laws AS IS, many states could benefit from following Minnesota's lead, including getting paper ballots and optical scanners.

    My original point before I got off on a tangent remains:  Since WWII ended, there's not one single person who has fought or died for my right to vote, your right to vote, or for anyone else's right to vote, or fought or died for any of OUR constitutional rights (many rights which we still, technically, no longer have since Congress has not seen fit to repeal the unconstitutional laws that were passed during the Bushista years).  All of the fighting and dying after the end of WWII was done for, and on behalf of, the military-industrial-complex and the oil and mercenary corporations and corporations who demand tax breaks so they can "create jobs" overseas and get a tax break for doing that, too.  All of that fighting and dying after WWII has put us in debt so far that it may not be paid off for more than six generations from now.

    Not one.  WWII and before, yes.  Not after.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 01:53:49 AM PDT

    •  Were you around im the 60's? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, OLinda, laurnj, Meteor Blades

      People died trying to get the right to vote, for ALL Americans, during the Civil Rights movement.

      The Voting Rights Act wasn't signed until 1965.

      With all respect, you are incorrect.

      •  I was talking about the penchant... (0+ / 0-)

        ... for people saying those in the military are fighting and dying for We The People (right to vote, freedom of speech, etc.), not the Civil Rights movement.

        Yes, I was around in the '60s.  I was a senior in high school in 1963 when JFK was shot and The Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan a little over two months later in 1964.

        In 1965 I was busy bringing forth life.

        Under the laws of the day, I couldn't vote until I was 21 - in 1967.  Growing up it was always assumed I'd register and vote when I was old enough, just like everyone else in the family and extended family, and the neighbors where we lived.  Voting was just one of those things one was expected to do as an adult (even in the face of tragedy one voted; on the way to the funeral of my mother's next-youngest brother in 1964, my parents stopped and voted before we drove out of town for the funeral - both my parents were Democrats).

        Most of the non-military marching, fighting and dying in the Civil Rights movement happened 1500-2000 miles south-southeast of me, so it's fair to say that people in the Civil Rights movement fought and died for many other people, but voter suppression did not affect my life directly since I grew up knowing I was expected to do my civic duty and vote when I became a legal adult.

        I know others grew up in areas where voter suppression was an issue and I respect their experiences for what it was.  It just so happens I never lived anywhere where it was an issue, so it's never been a part of my life experiences.

        Have a nice day.

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 03:48:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I was talking about those who died... (0+ / 0-)

      ...for equal rights (including the right to vote) in this country, not in foreign wars.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:15:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As I told marigold above: (0+ / 0-)
        Under the laws of the day, I couldn't vote until I was 21 - in 1967.  Growing up it was always assumed I'd register and vote when I was old enough, just like everyone else in the family and extended family, and the neighbors where we lived.  Voting was just one of those things one was expected to do as an adult (even in the face of tragedy one voted; on the way to the funeral of my mother's next-youngest brother in 1964, my parents stopped and voted before we drove out of town for the funeral - both my parents were Democrats).

        Most of the non-military marching, fighting and dying in the Civil Rights movement happened 1500-2000 miles south-southeast of me, so it's fair to say that people in the Civil Rights movement fought and died for many other people, but voter suppression did not affect my life directly since I grew up knowing I was expected to do my civic duty and vote when I became a legal adult.

        I know others grew up in areas where voter suppression was an issue and I respect their experiences for what it was.  It just so happens I never lived anywhere where it was an issue, so it's never been a part of my life experiences.

        When I moved away from where I was born and raised, it was 1200 miles straight west, and it was another location where voter suppression was not an issue.

        I guess I'm lucky.

        The way my parents raised me, voting is like the seasons coming and going.  Election day comes, one does what one is expected to do and one votes.  It's just that simple.  Oh, and we had Civics class when I was a senior in high school, so that reinforced my parents' example of voting.  [Was some article I read a while back true and Civics is no longer a high school course?  That's just wrong.]

        Still, the only ones who marched, protested, fought, or died for "my" right to vote were Suffragettes for women's right to vote, or soldiers in any wars from WWII back who fought for our "freedoms" [freedoms we no longer have since our Congress Critters have not seen fit to give them back to us under Obama, but have extended the suppression of most of our constitutional rights that we lost during the Bushista years because our Congress Critters gave them up "on our behalf" just when they should have told Dumbya to go to hell - if any cause was worth fighting for, it would be that:  force our Congress Critters and the President to repeal the Patriot Act, MCA '06 & '09, and FISA fiasco '08 & modifications since then, and to disband the 'office of faith-based initiatives' - the latter could be done with a countering executive order since that's how it was created to run out of the president's office].  Post-WWII when I've been alive?  No.

        Where I have lived in the US, voter suppression was never an issue.  It was always assumed adults would register and vote.

        I find the two+ years of making mountains out of molehills no bigger than a pimple and campaigning and political positioning and strutting and knotted knickers and pearl clutching and punditocracy losing their minds and the verbal garbage they spew regularly during all that lengthy (and unnecessary) campaign blabbering disgusting beyond belief.

        I'd far rather have this temporary insanity and idiocy break out only between the national conventions and election day (approximately 90 days).  After two+ years of yapping politicians and political pundits and enough faux outrage over nothing important (like before the '08 and '10 and '12 elections), I understand election apathy and get why people don't register or vote.  By the time election day rolls around, they are bored senseless and wish politicians would just go away.

        It gets really tiresome to listen to all that faux outrage and nonsense for years and years before election day (flag lapel pins are stupid things to talk about, and including religion IN government is unconstitutional, as would be any laws passed based on religious 'values'); like a whining child or spouse, one tunes it out, or turns off the TV or radio or leaves the computer on permanent mute.

        Besides Civics classes in high school and teaching kids that it's their civic duty to vote, a partial solution to voter apathy is to ban multi-year political campaigning and limit it to not more than three months before election day.  It could save millions or billions in political fund-raising, and maybe - just maybe - our congress critters could actually stay in DC instead of campaign, attend House or Senate sessions, and get something done for those who elected them, not the corporations who bought their services with their Citizens United free speech money.  [That's either my private daydream or the funniest sentence I've ever written.]

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 02:01:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Where I have lived in the US... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          willyr

          ...voter suppression was never an issue.  It was always assumed adults would register and vote."

          I don't know exactly where you lived in the West, but voter suppression against Indians is STILL an issue in many places. It's an issue in the inner cities of Ohio against blacks in the most recent elections.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 07:45:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The first... (0+ / 0-)

            ... 45 years of my life across three states, I lived roughly 100-125 miles south of the Canadian border.  I'm not that much farther south of the Canadian border now.

            I read about voter suppression in other states and it feels like I'm reading about events on an alien planet.

            I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

            by NonnyO on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:20:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, again, since I don't know which states... (1+ / 0-)

              ...those are, let me just say that New York, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota have all had voter suppression of American Indians in the past 25 years, Minnesota as recently as eight years ago.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:27:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  In the dingtoolies (0+ / 0-)

                Minnesota, Idaho, Washington.  I said up above I live in MN.

                I worked for one of the tribes for five years.  For employee meetings around election season there was always a big push to register to vote and to vote.  One of those years they favored one candidate and wanted their employees to vote for him (don't remember the issue, but it had to do with favoring something to do with gambling and tribes owning or controlling gambling in the state which would support the Indian monopoly on gambling; he was outside of my voting district but inside the area where the casino was located).

                Virtually all the tribes have casinos in Minnesota (one or more), so they are a huge contributor to the tax base because they employ both Indians and non-Indians.  They have opposed gambling at the horse racetrack down by the Cities and were successful about it for quite some time since they have a monopoly on gambling in the state.  When the state legislature wanted gambling (cards and slot machines) at the racetrack besides the horse betting so they could have an additional way of acquiring revenue to pay for those stupid stadiums they have recently built and the ones they just approved this year that will be built in the near future, the tribes blocked it (and then our Dem gov and Repuke legislature most recently "compromised" and snuck in a couple of extra local Cities' stadiums in the final bill, called a special session to vote on the stadiums we do not need, and they still have to figure out a way to pay for them).

                The tribes wield some rather large monetary clout in MN.  Probably in WI, ND, SD, and/or other states too, if the tribes have casinos.  I don't know.  I don't gamble; I only worked at a casino, didn't like it for the high stress, and employees couldn't gamble at the casino where they worked.  With that much financial clout, there's no way the tribes would stand for any kind of voter suppression - particularly not when they want their tribal members to participate in voting and they know voter registration is so easy to accomplish here.  (OTOH, each tribe does have their own constitution and each elects their own chiefs and other governing officials, and I have no idea what their tribal laws are governing registration or voting on the individual Reservations.  I know each has their own license plates.)

                Where in MN was the voter suppression supposed to be?  It's so easy to register to vote in this state, including election-day registration at a precinct (with proper ID, it's all listed on the SoS web site) that voter suppression sounds like fiction.  There are voter registration forms in the phone book, in fact, and at various city and county offices.  Once registered, if one does not move then one's name is on the printout at the local precinct for every election.  [At the last two or three recounts the Repukes tried to claim 'voter fraud,' but couldn't come up with any examples in front of the judge.  That's a different matter, but this imaginary 'voter fraud' they concocted is why they want this referendum voted on this fall for a state constitutional amendment to require voter ID cards, one of two proposed amendments to vote on this year.]  My name is on the printout at the same place every year.  They ask for my name, I sign the register.  My DL w/pix is with me, but no one ever asks for ID, just whether or not I'm the one at that address (there's another person with the same first and last name at a different address within the same precinct), I get a number, give it to the person who hands out ballots, then go vote by filling in ovals on a paper ballot, check to make sure I voted for the Democrats, then go and insert the ballot in the optical scanner, get my 'I voted' sticker and leave.  If I go early in the morning when it's not busy, it takes all of five minutes.

                Registering AND voting are both ridiculously easy in MN, but we have a history of close vote totals - hence the need for recount laws - going back to a famous governor recount in 1962 (I remember when it happened; I was a sophomore in high school - it's the same year I got interested in genealogy research as a result of a biology project), so laws governing recounts have been on the books a very long time (written before it became popular to write loopholes into laws).  The most famous recent recount was when Al Franken was elected in '08.  Two years ago, just two years after Franken was elected to the US Senate, there was another recount in '10 when Mark Dayton was elected governor (number totals were wider so his opponent conceded).

                Between easy voter registration & voting process, paper ballots, and a transparent recount process that's easy to do because of those paper ballots, many states could benefit from laws similar to what Minnesota has.

                I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

                by NonnyO on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 12:23:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It was no fiction. There was a lawsuit... (2+ / 0-)

                  ...involved, which you can read about here.

                  As for South Dakota, Shannon County (Pine Ridge) has been a focal point of voter suppression efforts against the Lakota for decades. Fewer polling stations per capita and fewer early voting hours are just some of the efforts that have been made to suppress the Indian vote there.

                  This is not a imaginary problem.

                  Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 01:04:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The first time... (0+ / 0-)

                    ... I registered after moving here, I used my driver's license (picture+current address) and a utility bill with a current address.

                    There are several different ways of proving precinct residency listed on the SoS web site.

                    I note that '05 story includes the info that tribal IDs now have current address listed.

                    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

                    by NonnyO on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 02:56:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  no fiction, read this report (0+ / 0-)

                  here.

                  here is one quote from diary i am posting later today:

                  In South Dakota’s June 2004 primary, Native American voters were prevented from voting after they were challenged to provide photo IDs, which they were not required to present under state or federal law.
                  Also, in South Dakota, general public had like 6 weeks for in person early voting, but Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations in South Dakota had few days only.

                  Lots of ways to suppress votes, only limitation is the disenfranchiser's warped imagination.

                  Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

                  by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 01:28:51 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Do general public... (0+ / 0-)

                    ... voting rules and regs apply on their Reservations?  Or not?  Or do they overlap?

                    As sovereign nations in their own right, the tribes set their own laws for what applies on the Reservations (not sure about other places, but in MN each Res/tribe has its own vehicle license plates and have their own law enforcement officers).  Some choose to go with laws identical to state or federal laws, some don't.  That is entirely up to the individual tribes.

                    Whether a person's residence is on or off of a Reservation would make a difference.

                    I don't have a single clue about SD law or how Res laws differ or are the same as state or federal laws..., but here in MN where one votes is determined by the address of one's residence which is listed on one's driver's license (with picture) or official state ID (with picture) and evidence of that address (utility bill) - or someone vouching for one, etc. (whatever applies on that list of alternate ways of proving residency on the MN SoS web site).  There are several pages of info.

                    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

                    by NonnyO on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 03:18:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're missing the point (0+ / 0-)

                      You said that there could be no voter suppression against Indian voters because they have too much financial clout:

                      With that much financial clout, there's no way the tribes would stand for any kind of voter suppression - particularly not when they want their tribal members to participate in voting and they know voter registration is so easy to accomplish here.
                      Minnesota, for all its great laws that you want other states to follow, is no different when it comes to voter suppression:
                      Citing requirements in a new state election law, Republican Secretary of State Mary Kiffmeyer directed that tribal ID cards could not be used for voter identification by Native Americans living off reservations. Heffelfinger and his staff feared that the ruling could result in discrimination against Indian voters. Many do not have driver’s licenses or forms of identification other than the tribes’ photo IDs.
                      Your comment also indicates that you are limiting voter suppression to voter registration, and you believe voter suppression is a fiction:
                      Where in MN was the voter suppression supposed to be?  It's so easy to register to vote in this state, including election-day registration at a precinct (with proper ID, it's all listed on the SoS web site) that voter suppression sounds like fiction.
                      Voter suppression is not just registration. Please see my earlier comment that provides two examples of voter suppression in the voting process.

                      And then you focus on your own experience with voter registration and voting, what info you need to provide at the polls. But unless you are Indian, or some other target of voter suppression efforts, your experience is not relevant.

                      Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

                      by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 04:50:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

  •  An excellent diary, MB. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, laurnj

    It's great to see this on the FP.

    Thank you.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 02:41:17 AM PDT

  •  I hope people go to the voting polls... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurnj

    prepared and determined to exercise their rights.
    Ignore smirking frat boys in sport coats and let your voice be heard.

  •  My ballot is cast. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    My absentee ballot was waiting for me at the office this morning; I filled it out, put it in the inner envelope, signed the affidavit on the envelope, put the inner envelope in the outer envelope, bought a stamp, and mailed it back to New York.

    I had the habit ingrained in me from a very young age not to state who I voted for.  I will, however, state that there was a circumstance that could have caused me to vote Republican in this election.

    That would be the somewhat unlikely event that my brain-rotted corpse was exhumed and zombified by GOP operatives, and instructed to go back to New York and pull the levers in the Republican column.

    (Because I wouldn't put that past them, I'm leaving instructions that once all of my viable organs are harvested for donation, what's left over is to be cremated and interred in three separate locations on two different continents.)

    And anyway, I'm pretty sure that there's no way to change my vote that doesn't constitute voter fraud.

    As an aside: it's a whole lot easier to cast an absentee ballot for New York than it is to change your election district in Greece...

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