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Look, I ended up going to the San Francisco Headquarters of the Barack Obama campaign earlier to see the debate.  I don't know if any of you were there but I was.

The bottom line I see with the debate between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney is this:

Barack Obama won the debate and Mitt Romney lost.  No, Mitt Romney did not win unless you count the number of times he's flip-flopped, gotten himself into tangling his own words against himself and even was nervous.  He even smacked his lips a bit and moved his fingers across his eyes.  Hell, he even smirked in a very uncomfortable way.

Here's how I looked at the debate:

Mitt Romney first started to be calm, composed and even complementary towards President Obama.  Then the next thing, he started praising Big Bird, then the next thing after that, Romney begins to look behind him and stare at the wall while Obama is looking at what Romney is staring at.  Then next thing happens, Romney says he's about to repeal Medicare but then immediately corrects himself by saying Obamacare.  Then at one point Romney got so uncomfortable he was like a poor little baby asking Jim Lehrer for another minute to respond to Obama and Lehrer got irritated at Romney.  Hell, even when at times Obama went over time, he was polite and considerate towards Lehrer about it.  Does this REALLY sound like someone who won a debate?  Hell, even John McCain never did this bad when he faced Obama in the debates in 2008.

PLEASE, stop being naive and seduced by the powers of Fox News, ABC News or even some people on CNN in thinking Romney won the debate.  I don't care what pundit or columnist says he did.  Romney didn't have any style, substance or good composure AT ALL.  The so-called facts Romney gave, well, a number of times Obama threw them right back at Romney.  No, it was not a weak debate for President Obama although he did appear to look a bit tired.  He never lost his cool and unlike some people who say Obama didn't fight Romney back hard, he ACTUALLY DID!  He used Romneycare against Romney and Romney couldn't even defend himself appropriately.  In fact, Obama attacked Romney hard a number of times and it made Romney worse in character.  In fact, I felt sorry for Romney the whole debate.  He tired going back to hitting Obama but Obama NEVER lost his cool.

Unless we're going to see voter suppression out the roof or the so-called "October Surprise" changing the dynamics of the race, I think it's best we should man up and get back to getting out the vote for President Obama's re-election, as well as those Democrats running for Congress in either Congressional or Senatorial races, as well as those running for Governor, State Assembly, City Council, and other offices.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:17 PM PT: Ok.  I apologize if any of you are annoyed at the fiery diary.  I acknowledge there are those out there who believe Romney won.

However, I believe the dynamics are not going to change no matter how hard Romney tries.  There were some Tweets on ABC News online (the source I saw the debate, streaming) that said people were flooded with e-mails and Twitter tweets on Big Bird.  Now if this doesn't say anything about the state of Mitt Romney and his campaign, I don't know WHAT does.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Romney definitely won. (4+ / 0-)

    Denial is the first of the five stages and there is some bargaining mixed in here, but come on.

    •  Right, right, right. Sure. (5+ / 0-)

      I've been watching debates for a long time.  I haven't seen anyone as bad in composure as Mitt Romney.  Nice try, but I'm not drinking the cool aid.

    •  Call me old fashioned (10+ / 0-)

      but substance and truth still matter.   I don't consider lying to the American public a winning strategy.

      •  Truth does matter.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sylv

        ...but to the people who truth does matter this debate was inconsequential because they already have decided.

        The debates are for those who haven't decided yet and if you haven't decided by now I think you are stupid or have a bent moral compass.

        Just my $0.02.

        We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

        by delver rootnose on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:12:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No it doesn't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        delver rootnose

        Not to about 50% of the electorate.

        I'm tired of pretending that the "Honey Boo Boo" crowd doesn't exist. They do, and they're going to be eating out of Mitts hands and gorging on all of the lies from last night. I'm scared that retards and rednecks are going to take this election away from us, all because our President wasn't aggressive enough in the debate.

    •  Mitt smirked his way through a veritable (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      soithoni, Sylv

      vaudeville repetoire of sweet talk, fairy dust, and fakery.
      i especially enjoyed  his response when Obama raised several issues, and Mitt said , whoa, this , that, and this too? i can't  handle all that stuff at once....

      dude, if you want to be president, you will have to handle a bunch of stuff at once.

      i dont think Americans are as naive as we were the day that George Bush sweet talked  and bull shitted his way into the white house.

      it was clear to me tonight, for example, that Smirk romney doesn't have any frrikkin idea how  health insurance works, or how the health care system works.

      yes, barack could have swatted Mitt down more often and ore thoroughly, but the fact is, Mitt showed us ...nothing, absolutely nothing, except a practiced performance...but tell me, does anyone who thinks he one have any idea at all what he said? or how he would govern? or what he would do?

      i didn't think so.

      this compared to a man who has served well in the office, who has real, boots on the ground experience, who has wrestled and weathered the last years with honor and still  manage to treat this joke of a GOP candidate with courtesy. yeah ,right, Obama's a real loser. not.

  •  er..no---Romney won. (5+ / 0-)

    We can think for ourselves, thank you--I don't think anywhere here is being 'seduced' by Fox, CNN, or whoever.

    Obama was either ill-prepared, or had a poor strategy, or both.

    Perhaps it won't be much of a big deal---but partisan insistence that a loss is actually a win is just nonsensical.

    •  Of course you can think for yourselves (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      manyamile, ObserverinMontreal, edrie

      I'm just tired of this overwhelming number of people who claim Mitt Romney won.  I feel my voice ought to be heard and if I'm showing fire in my belly that makes people uncomfortable, I apologize for it.

      However, I watched a lot of the debate with a number of Obama supporters and it wasn't just me in the room that was laughing and just amazed at Romney's amazing ability to be the gift that keeps on giving.  A number of people I talked to felt the same way.  So if you and others claim Romney won, fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

  •  Romney won but (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NotGeorgeWill, Shliapnikov, IreGyre, Sylv

    A lot of the debate focused on discussing Romneys plan and I agree Romney did a bad job defending them and lied to America.

    But Obama didn't throw any punches. It wasn't a blowout, but Romney hour be pleased. But I didn't hear one thing that would convince an undecided voter to vote for either of the candidates, but Obama was more like able.

  •  I can't imagine a meeker performance from the (6+ / 0-)

    president than he delivered tonight. Nor can I believe that it was planned, that it was rope-a-dope. I can believe that somehow the president's handlers expected a modicum of moderation and inquisitiveness from the decrepit Jim Lehrer, but that doesn't explain the president's downcast eyes, aloof delivery, and serial surrender of reality to Romney's fantasia.  It doesn't explain the abandonment of discussion about women's issues, the saving of auto industry, the GOP tanking the country's credit rating, and on and on and on... all domestic issues that didn't merit a whisper from Obama.

    Obama can recover, of course, and burden Romney with the falsehoods and backtracking he perpetrated tonight. But he could have ended Romney tonight with two or three well-placed attacks, and he seemed completely determined not to. What a strange and unnerving night.

    "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

    by Mogolori on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 10:51:37 PM PDT

    •  Not unnerving at all to me (0+ / 0-)

      The whole time, I kept thinking, will Romney please continue to screw up again?  PLEASE!

      One thing Romney doesn't understand is that he won't be able to alter the course of this campaign.  Even if Romney did win the debate, he barely even won.  Romney still has problems himself that even he couldn't control.  I mean, this guy is a frickin robot and when he's challenged, he almost squeals.

      •  Problem was, he wasn't challenged. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shliapnikov

        That's what was unnerving.  He wasn't never robotic, and he never once squealed, because the president never once tried to draw blood as Romney stuck his chin out.

        Were I advising Romney, I would instruct him to go after Obama exactly the same way until the president figures out how to counterpunch.  Tonight, counterpunching was beneath the president.

        "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

        by Mogolori on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:23:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

      perhaps you failed to note there was a moderator and a CLOCK - that the debate was 90 minutes and they still ran over (thanks to rmoney running over repeatedly).

      so what exactly did you think obama should have done to discuss

      It doesn't explain the abandonment of discussion about women's issues, the saving of auto industry, the GOP tanking the country's credit rating, and on and on and on... all domestic issues that didn't merit a whisper from Obama.
      bulldoze over the moderator to drop what WAS being discusses to bring these issues up?

      sheesh.

      and, yes, i'd like to have heard about those issues, too, but the FORMAT of the debate was not the president's to control.  

      (i can't believe i even have to point this out...)

  •  Snap polls are are good measure . . . (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou, mdmslle, worldlotus, penguins4peace, Sylv

    and what they indicate is that most people who viewed the debate thought Romney had the stronger debate in terms of delivery (of course this appears to include some Dems who have no intention of supporting Romney).

    Sometimes the media spin is disconnected from the snap polls, but in this case, I think that they seems to have a decent pulse on viewer perceptions.

    My own view is I thought Romney was over-bearing, rude, and a bit frantic.  I thought Obama answered clearly and calmly.

    In the end though, we'll have to wait a few days to see how this registers with voter preferences.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a modest boost for Romney, but I would be surprised if this fundamentally changes the election outcome. Romney probably picks up a point to a point and a half.  Obama may pick up a half a point.  Obama is closer to 50 percent in most polls, so if he won any voters tonight and didn't lose support, he moves closer to the victory threshold.

    I don't think there was probably anything that Obama could do tonight that would have put Romney away for good.  His best approach was to maintain his support, and to try to get Romney to damage himself.  We'll have to see how things play out.

    •  I completely agree. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus, IreGyre, Sylv

      If the consensus is that Romney won, then he won.  Why pretend he didn't.  However, I'm not sure what other strategies were available to Obama.

      I strongly agree with the idea that there was much more for Obama to lose if he was baited into playing Romney's game.  If Obama didn't commit a major errors, and I don't believe he did, then I don't see this changing the game.

      And although I hate to say that polls are bogus, the CNN snap poll really was.  Their entire sample was white and 50+.  No joke.

      Have you googled Romney today?

      by fou on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:02:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Romney revealed himself to the world in a BAD way (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      manyamile

      I don't think he ended up putting himself in a positive light.  Sure, people may think he won but by how much?

      And by the way, I don't know if you paid attention to what's been going on but I watched the debate video streaming from ABC News.  There appear to have been thousands and thousand of Twitter feeds about Big Bird.  In my opinion, that's a death sign for Mitt Romney's campaign but I could be wrong.

  •  I don't see it the way you did. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, delver rootnose, Shliapnikov

    For me, it was disappointing.

    I'm okay with admitting that. If our guy won devisively, we wouldn't even be having this difference of opinion, now would we?

    I'm okay with not acing the debate, being that that's how it turned out. But it's not over. Hell, we don't even know if it'll help Romney in the polls!

    I'd say admit it, and lets keep going forward.

    For the record, I am not a member of Courtesy Kos. Just so you know. Don't be stupid. It's election season. My patience is short.

    by mdmslle on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 10:58:14 PM PDT

  •  pipsorcle - Romney won this debate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mogolori, Shliapnikov

    It doesn't matter. There are two more debates and the fact checkers will take some luster off of Romney's win. Debates rarely have a big impact on elections. Look how bad GWB did in his debates.

    What the debate did was give the media a horse race story, and give the Romney team some energy and more money that will flow in after the Romney debate win.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:01:37 PM PDT

    •  Dubya outperformed his expectations in his (0+ / 0-)

      debates with Gore.  He so outperformed them in the first debate that Gore overcompensated in the second, taking Naomi Wolf's advice to go alpha-male and walking toward Dubya as he was answering a question, a bit of choreography that sealed the country's impression of him as stiff and eccentric.

      http://www.youtube.com/...

      "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

      by Mogolori on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:14:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, no, I watched straight through ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shliapnikov, penguins4peace

    made personal assessment before watching any commentary.

    Romney absolutely won that debate.

    I noticed he had his weird smirkiness, etc., but he made a much more comprehensive (if dishonest) case for his stances.

    Obama just was standing there letting everything go by. No challenges. At least two (maybe three) "the governor and I agree."

    It was terrible.

    But that's OK. The race is not over, and it was not so terrible I expect polls to turn around overnight. I'm not going to pretend Obama didn't lose, though.

    www.stacysmusings.wordpress.com

    by Magenta on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:06:44 PM PDT

  •  Ah can I point out... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shliapnikov

    ...that San Fran Cicso is not like all of California and all of California is not like Wisconsin, or Ohio, or Florida.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Wed Oct 03, 2012 at 11:10:16 PM PDT

  •  On planet earth, Romney won decisively because.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shliapnikov, penguins4peace

    either someone slipped Obama some downers in his water or we're back to Dems being.....please pardon my ugly expression.....pussies.

    Romney owned Obama. Period. How will that play out is what counts. But this was bloody pathetic from Obama.

    •  only in the beavis and butthead world are (0+ / 0-)

      you correct.

      sorry to disagree, but substance counts and so does demeanor.

      we had a president on stage during a time when bellicose behavior would NOT be desirable (turkey, anyone?) and a smirky, aim first and ask later, idiot.

      if the buttheads in the world want to cheer about how that idiot "won", it is irrelevant to the bigger picture.

  •  This isn't an episode of 'survivor' (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    My Name Isnt Earl, Sylv

    this is real.

    What kind of logic says a chronic liar wins because  his lies were so numerous , thick and greasy  that each one wasn't torpedoed?

    you call that a winner? that is one lousy definition of a winner.
    this isn't a board game ,this is real.

    being a smirking, disingenuous chameleon might win you an episode of Survivor or the apprentice

    but for me, the winner was the guy who has real experience, and hard work under his belt, who understand how things work, who tries to communicate  reality to the electorate, who tries to solve real problems, who understands how most of us live and work, who understands how to garner respect in the world, who actually thinks about how to improve things. Make no mistake, President Obama is the winner.

  •  Obama Also Had Some Feckless Debates W/ Hillary... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    imfunnytoo, Sylv

    He has those kind of nights.  Last night was one of them.  

    Romney came out fighting right from the get go.  The next debate will be a Town Hall style.  They will both be answering questions from the audience.

    Watch out.....Candy Crowley will be the moderator.  She could pick on some ringers.  

    Batten down the hatches.  One down, two to go.

    The first decision goes to Romney....whether we like it or not.  

  •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

    The President had numerous opportunities to address Mitt's lies and let them slide, how about a retort when mittens was talking about bringing off shore money home to invest, Pres. should have countered, "Are you bringing your money home from the Cayman island or Switz.. So many chances and most went sliding by.. We left the debate early....

    •  you're wrong here. (0+ / 0-)

      had obama challenged one of romney's "lies" and it turned out to be true, he would validate rmoney.  better to wait until the next day with actual data to support that challenge.

      secondly, this wasn't about neener neener neener comments - that brings the whole debate down to the personal, not the policy.

      i really don't understand all this desire for seeing the president act like a ten year old on the schoolyard.  he is president of the united states - at a time when the mideast is close to blowing up.  

      maintaining the stature of president is far more important than trying to best romney with zingers and one liners and snide comments.

      get REAL, people!  obama is in this for the long game - we already know that.

      and, as for that challenging?  here's what google shows up already on factchecking the debate...looks like romney lost.

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