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statue of Jesus with hand to face
This is why we can't have nice things:
If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it, why was it in the Constitution and why wasn’t there a war before 1861?

The South has always stood by the Constitution and limited government. When one attacks the Confederate Battle Flag, he is certainly denouncing these principles of government as well as Christianity.

This bit of genius comes to us courtesy of one Loy Mauch, a state representative running for reelection in Arkansas, endorsed by the National Rifle Association, the Arkansas Right to Life PAC, and, until this week, the Arkansas Republican Party.

There's nothing special about Mauch, really; turns out, he's just one of several Arkansas politicians whose years-old love letters to the institution of slavery have been recently exposed, thus causing embarrassment for the state GOP, which has all of a sudden decided to be offended—or at least embarrassed. Thus, this oh-so-bold decision:

Arkansas Republicans said Monday they will no longer financially help three state House candidates whose racially charged writings have come under fire, including one lawmaker who called slavery a "blessing in disguise" and another who labeled Abraham Lincoln a "war criminal." [..]

The move was the latest by GOP leaders to distance the party from the trio after renewed attention to their writing.

It's hard to decide what about this story is most troubling. That any of these jerks were elected in the first place? That it wasn't until this week that the Arkansas GOP decided supporting these jerks looks sort of bad? That endorsing slavery because Jesus is apparently such an accepted position in Arkansas that it took years, and the scorn and disgust of people outside of Arkansas, for the state's GOP to feel compelled to distance itself from such blatant racism?

Or maybe it's just that the argument is so mind-numbingly stupid that it really makes you think we need some sort of literacy test for candidates. (Also, maybe an American history test. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there was a war or two before 1861.) Because, really, this is just about the stupidest thing someone has ever said (and I say that as a devout watcher of both Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin):

If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it, why was it in the Constitution and why wasn’t there a war before 1861?

Yeah, and if the Constitution is so important, why didn't Jesus or Paul say anything about that? And if banning abortion and gay people is so important, why didn't Jesus or Paul say anything about that? And if taking care of the poor and sick and elderly among us is so important, why didn't Jesus say anything about—Oh. Wait. He did.

Like I said, this is why we can't have nice things.

Originally posted to Kaili Joy Gray on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:39 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The sad thing is (7+ / 0-)

    This fucker will probably still win. Handily.

  •  but...but...but... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    glorificus, wader, Gemina13

    Freedom...also lower taxes...again, less regulation

    These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people... -Abraham Lincoln

    by HugoDog on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:48:20 AM PDT

  •  Jesus, the Constitution, small gov't, and guns... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    glorificus, wader, Gemina13

    ...there may be others, tho' that's the final four...

    Cheers.

  •  "The slow circling of the drain by a once (7+ / 0-)

    promising species"...Has anyone ever been more prescient and predictive and correct than George Carlin?
    ;-(>

    "We're right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody's giving booze to these goddamn things!"-Hunter S. Thompson ;-)>

    by rogerdaddy on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:52:14 AM PDT

  •  Forward to the Past: the Fundie Time Machine (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Gemina13, Calamity Jean
    Yeah, and if the Constitution is so important, why didn't Jesus or Paul say anything about that? And if banning abortion and gay people is so important, why didn't Jesus or Paul say anything about that? And if taking care of the poor and sick and elderly among us is so important, why didn't Jesus say anything about—Oh. Wait. He did.

    Like I said, this is why we can't have nice things.

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:52:50 AM PDT

  •  I fear Texas has lost all pretensions to the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gemina13, LOrion, Calamity Jean

    crown of Home of the Most Bat-Shit Crazy Pols.

    Although - where was this guy born?

    "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

    by glorificus on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:54:11 AM PDT

    •  Think its time to agree... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glorificus

      DEMOCRACY is a Relay Race... and you pass the baton by VOTING! So don't vote for OBAMA, VOTE for M&M's, MEDICARE and MIDDLECLASS

      by LOrion on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:17:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  BUT D*** Kaili ..this is BRILLIANT... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        glorificus

        Sharing everywhere...although half the peole that read it will think both you and I agree with the nut bags, cuz they do...aw well.

        DEMOCRACY is a Relay Race... and you pass the baton by VOTING! So don't vote for OBAMA, VOTE for M&M's, MEDICARE and MIDDLECLASS

        by LOrion on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:18:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There's way more crazy out there that this. (0+ / 0-)

      Technically, the unelectable crazy politicians are still politicians even if they can't get into office.  I say this because my state has a guy who runs for the state house that claims we should sprinkle toxic waste over the continent and sprinkle it in our oceans.  He thinks it would be some kind of health boon for the country.

      He's never won office, but it takes a special kind of politician to endorse policies that will actively kill people, and not accept it.

      As for the pro-life loons (Akin).  At least he believes the people that die from the result of his insane policy proposals would have been selected by his god to die.

      Oh, and third parties are usually safe havens for lunacy of all kinds.

  •  Here he is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gemina13

    with his favorite hate emblem in the background

    •  Heritage, not Hate! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jds1978

      Yeah, right!

    •  If it were up to me, (0+ / 0-)

      If the decision was mine, I would have the Confederate Battle Flag stand for the soldiers, sailors, and ordinary civilians who struggled to make it through the war; and the Civil Flag--the Stars and Bars--would stand for the politicians who made their sacrifices necessary.

      But it's not up to me. The people who decided how our era would see the Battle Flag were the Klan. They wanted to use a sense of loyalty to Dixie to manipulate people to vote against their own interest.

      I have read letters to the editor from many Sons of Confederate Veterans who say that they opposed this cooptation of the flag. Maybe they actually did oppose that use. However, to the extent they tried, they failed; and they should not demand that we shake the Etch a Sketch on the racist usage of the flag.

      The furor over Friday's [10.5] job report revealed a political movement that is rooting for American failure, so obsessed with taking down Obama that good news drives its members into a blind rage. -Paul Krugman

      by Judge Moonbox on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:31:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Or if slavery was so good why didn't Jeebus help (9+ / 0-)

    the Confederacy crush the Union so they could spread slavery all over America? Really, if Jeebus was on the side of slavery, the South would have won. Am I missing something?

    •  They'll lapse into the standard (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gemina13

      "Why do bad things happen to us Christians?" excuse which goes something like, "Jesus lets us fail so we can pick ourselves up and become better". Or similar hogwash. It's in the same vein as "God answers all prayers but he sometimes says 'No'". I guess at the root of it is the story of Job. God can allow as much bad stuff to happen to you and you can't question his motives. It's a huge out for anyone totally sucking down the Kool-Aid® of religious dogma. Just say "God's will" or "God works in mysterious ways" and ignore reality.

      If we got Mitt to be slightly less dishonest and gave him some personality he could pass as a used car salesman.

      by ontheleftcoast on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:14:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Teh Lawd works in mysterious ways! eom (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Marti
    •  well duh (0+ / 0-)

      he let them lose so that The South could Rise Again. Resurrection... kind of his schtick.

      •  The phrase is... (0+ / 0-)

        The south is going to do it again. I am guessing they mean lose.

        "And while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions."

        by Shippo1776 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 07:52:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I guess they don't have Paul's Letter to Philemon (0+ / 0-)

      in their ARKANSAS New Testament.

  •  they come from Arkansas (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gemina13

    where the giant plantation owner known as Wal-mart is headquartered.  It's not much of a surprise that people who fight for the "kindlier and gentler" economic slavery of today think the slavery of the past is okie-dokie.  

    I wish those angry white guys Lindsey Graham was talking about would go away sooner rather the later.

    "I have a dream....that people will be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.  (But my dream keeps running into a nightmarish wall built by idiots who still harbor dreams of winning a war that ended 165 years ago.  I take comfort in the fact that my dream will never tire.)"

    But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have laid my dreams under your feet; tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. – Yeats

    by Bill O Rights on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:11:38 AM PDT

  •  They used to be called "Fire-Eaters" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gemina13, martybee

    "Fire-eaters" was a common term for extremist pro-slavery politicians from the southern states in the ante-bellum period.  Many Fire-Eaters were also strong secessionists, believing that the southern states should quit the United States and form their own country.  Hostorians credit the Fire-Eaters with significantly contributing to secession and the start of the US civil war

    With the onset of the civil war, Fire-Eaters earned a new name: traitors.

    I find it sad to see the re-emergence of this dark political ideology.  It might be helpful to remind Americans where this kind of thinking comes from, and where it leads.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:12:49 AM PDT

  •  well, you know (0+ / 0-)

    the bible isn't exactly the most anti-slavery group of documents out there.

    that fundies would take this route should not be a surprise.

    pseudoscience can kill

    by terrypinder on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:47:25 AM PDT

  •  Screw the dog whistle, gimme that blow horn! (0+ / 0-)

    Jesus tap dancing Christ on a crutch that's pretty racist, even in this day and age for the south

    --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

    by idbecrazyif on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:53:25 AM PDT

  •  Why do these idiots now feel safe enough (0+ / 0-)

    to talk openly about these ideas?  Todd Aiken, the idiot yesterday who thought we ought to be stoning our kids and now this one.  What has changed in the political climate that makes them speak openly of these reprehensible things?  I am sure they are all dominionists and maybe its that they think both Michelle Bachmann and Rick Perry gave credence to the movement when they ran for president.

    •  nothing new, it's always been out there (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Judge Moonbox, CaliSista

      Sometimes they get caught and the rest of the nation scorns them but usually it stays within their communities where everyone believes the same thing and pass it down to their children.

      In todays multi-media world they get caught out more often because it's on the record for all to see.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:51:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's because their peers are all radicalized. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ranton

      It's because they don't ever talk to anyone outside their movement until it's time to be elected.  They get into a safe little media bubble where they think that not only is their view correct, but that their view is uncontroversial.

      This seems to indicate that at least in some local republican party groups, there has been some success in complete radicalization.

    •  They are doing it now because they think (0+ / 0-)

      they will win and have four or eight years to torture the rest of us, the latter if their Voter Suppression thing survives and continues to make sure the rest of us cannot vote against them.

  •  Oh for fucks sake! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jds1978

    This makes my brain hurt. I really believe Edwina Munsoon was onto something when she said there should be a stupid tax.

    "Tax the Stupid People!"

    The Spice must Flow!

    by Texdude50 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:04:52 PM PDT

    •  A-holes ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jds1978

      ... I'd support an a-hole tax, that's for sure. People who are actually and innocently, as opposed to willfully, stupid get a pass from me.

      I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace. - Thomas Paine

      by ManOutOfTime on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:31:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The man is named "Loy" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, Rashaverak, jds1978

    Maybe we should think twice about receiving pearls of wisdom from a man named "Loy".

  •  But (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty
    they will no longer financially help three state Housecandidates whose racially charged writings have come under fire
    if they win they will gladly use their votes to accomplish their party's slightly more subtle racist agenda.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

    by illinifan17 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:08:04 PM PDT

  •  "Do unto others as you would have them do (4+ / 0-)

    unto you", said Jesus.

    That ought to be enough to tell you, per Jesus, that there's something wrong with involuntary servitude.

    •  I was looking to see if anyone else would ... (0+ / 0-)

      ... bring this up before I posted it.

      I was going to say:

      If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it
      Well, Jesus did have that little "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule.

      Reading between the lines, I would guess that would probably include not enslaving people.  

      But that might be a little too nuanced for Republicans to grasp.

  •  What The Fuck (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, Paul Rogers

    I got a lot of ability to lets folks say stupid shit. This is over the top, but I don't even know where to start.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:09:53 PM PDT

    •  It's only strange that it was said in public. (0+ / 0-)

      The only strange or surprising thing about this is that it was said where outsiders could potentially overhear it.  It's not all that surprising to me.

      After all, slavery has only recently been abandoned.  Historically, one could sort of call our modern anti-slavery culture a fad.  Brought on by the abundance of cheap energy.

      It's horrible, but religious believers, who consider religious figures to be the ultimate arbiters of divine (and moral) law are going to have to reconcile the fact that their faith had no problem with slavery with the fact that it's reviled by modern culture.

      Lots of people deny the viciousness and horribleness implicit in one human owning another human, and I suspect it will continue to happen.  Lots of people deny lots of horrible things.

      It doesn't help matters that there are modern slave classes in America these days.

  •  FUCK. Those delightful Romans, who slaughtered (0+ / 0-)

    men and thousands of animals in arenas for their drunken
    recreation, didn't disapprove of slavery either. And God, they built beautiful palaces and took baths and wrote beautiful odes.

    "To hunt a species to extinction is not logical."--Spock, in Star Trek IV.

    by Wildthumb on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:11:46 PM PDT

  •  Book Of Deuteronomy, Chapter 23, Verses 15 & 16 (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, MadMs, mwm341, ranton
    "If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them."
    •  i knew it had to be in there somewhere! (0+ / 0-)

      thanks for finding it.

      “And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.” ― William Gibson, Count Zero (-9.75 / -9.05)

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:38:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Cool. The Fugitive Slave Law (0+ / 0-)

      was directly countering the Bible.  I wonder if that ever came up in the extended debate about it?  Or in the Dred Scott and Harriet Robinson Scott decision?  Or, or, or. . . .

      All of those slaveowners who beat all of those slaves for all of those centuries here are in Hell.  The Bible tells me so.

      Excellent.

      "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

      by Cream City on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:09:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fifty years ago, guys like this sat on a bench (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    in your town and muttered to themselves.

    Now they run for office and we have to listen to their nonsense on the internet.

    Such is progress.

    Mitt Romney's moral compass points to the Cayman Islands.

    by captainlaser on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:17:32 PM PDT

    •  Sadly, no... (0+ / 0-)

      The were in positions of power in the south and using violence to keep the segregationist status quo in place.

      The only difference now is that the racist scum can't away with that stuff anymore.

      Mitt Romney treats people like things. And he treats things - corporations - like people.

      by richardak on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:27:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they'll "get away with it" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CaliSista

        they'll probably gain votes. Their constituency believes the same thing and gets proud when a good ole boy stands up for what's right.

        America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

        by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:54:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Lawrence O'Donnell covered this last night, (6+ / 0-)

    and did a little bible thumping. As he pointed out, the bible isn't a document that we use to run our country. That document is the constitution, which is designed for modification thru amendments. A ratified amendment becomes the law of the land. The Loy Mauch's want to put the bible above the constitution, but that doesn't work here. He's free to move if the ending of slavery is too hard a concept to accept. And since slavery is outlawed worldwide, perhaps Uranus would be okay.

    What are their names and on what street do they live-David Crosby-"If I Could Only Remember My Name"

    by IB JOHN on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:17:57 PM PDT

  •  Paging Loy Mauch. Paging Loy Mauch. (0+ / 0-)

    Phone call for Loy Mauch....

    Mitt Romney's moral compass points to the Cayman Islands.

    by captainlaser on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:19:57 PM PDT

  •  Mauch bonus comment: Lincoln was a Marxist... (0+ / 0-)

    and a Nazi!

    To those of us who actually know our history, Lee will be mentioned in the same breath as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, while Goering will be equated with Lincoln, Josef Stalin and Karl Marx.

    Mitt Romney treats people like things. And he treats things - corporations - like people.

    by richardak on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:21:55 PM PDT

  •  Jesus (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Americantrueandblue, niemann

    have nothing to say about the relative merits of Apple vs Android....

    he also has nothing to say about homosexuality or abortion.   If he wasn't against that stuff....why the silence?

  •  So Loy Mauch wouldn't mind being a slave? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Americantrueandblue, drmah, ranton

    Good to know!

    If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it, why was it in the Constitution and why wasn’t there a war before 1861?

    Paul Ryan has risen to prominence because he thinks that poor people should suffer and he doesn't mind saying so.

    by VictorLaszlo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:27:38 PM PDT

  •  These are actually good questions ... (5+ / 0-)

    that you are trying to push under the carpet.

    The answers are simple.

    why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it ?

    Because Jesus (or Paul or whoever wrote Bible) didn't consider slavery to be bad. That shows the limit of religion to help on ethical issues.

    why was it in the Constitution ?

    Shows how imprefect the constitution was ... for all the high ideals set out.

    Enjoying driving the electric Nissan Leaf as the primary car from Feb '11

    by EVNow on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:28:11 PM PDT

    •  Agreed, EV-- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Paul Rogers

      Mr. Mauch is actually asking very important questions, and inferring some others, though not in the way he intends.

      The United States of America was built largely on a foundation of genocide and slavery. That is a shameful fact, but a fact nonetheless.

      Given that, what do we do today? Mr. Mauch would celebrate that heritage, apparently, and we mock him for it. But I know, for me personally, I am not nearly mindful enough, day to day, of that heritage.  I have both African-American slave blood and Native American blood running in my veins, and still I think about that almost never.

      So it's good to have Mr. Mauch remind me of exactly how hateful, shameful and immoral that heritage is, and how important this election is. Re-electing the President is a tiny step, but at least it's in the right direction.

      -Jay-
      
    •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

      I think the bible did condemn it as shown in a comment above.

      Book Of Deuteronomy, Chapter 23, Verses 15 & 16
      And the Constitution was a compromise with the south but a large number of delegates knew it was wrong and would be outlawed in the future. Without the grand compromise there would have been no constitution and no USA. Thus slavery would probably have continued longer.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:00:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Religious texts are not exactly consistent ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paul Rogers, KathleenM1

        You can quote something or the other to justify whatever you want. Afterall there is the "10 commandments" which talks about not coveting your neighbours slaves.

        Slavery was widespread in the middleeast at that time - all they came up was this ?

        "If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master.

        Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them."

        Why not a clear - slavery is a sin for which God will kill you ?

        Enjoying driving the electric Nissan Leaf as the primary car from Feb '11

        by EVNow on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:32:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK, that's why I said "I think" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul Rogers

          The other commenter seemed to have it right but I plead ignorance about the bible.

          Slavery was an "institution" in many civilizations all of them were wrong but many men considered great thinkers accepted it.

          America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

          by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 07:42:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree with your disagreement and raise you. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        niemann

        Check out 1st Timothy 6:1-2

        You can read absolutely anything into the Bible that you want to be in there.  It is a nihilist document.

        •  ok, you win (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul Rogers

          I actually don't know shit about the bible and agree with your second sentence.

          America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

          by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 07:37:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know shit about it either. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cacamp

            Google is magic like that.

            I just hate to see people claim the high ground comes from their religion.  It does not.  The high ground comes out of secular life.

            Religious interpretations to claim the high ground come after secular forces largely beat morality into society.  It is revisionist history to claim otherwise.

        •  Actually, the Bible isn't a document at all. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul Rogers

          It's a collection of  separate documents that were written over god-knows-how-many hundreds or thousands of years ... often written down from much older oral traditions ... originating in various differing cultural contexts and historical periods ... all of which were never intended to form a cohesive whole in the first place.

          It's an anthology.  

          An anthology that was edited;  by a certain group of editors, working for their own purposes, from their own set of biases, in their own historical context.

          It constantly amazes me that so many people think of the Bible as if it was written in one go, intended as a cohesive whole.  

          It is like trying to interpret one of my short story collections as if it too was intended as a cohesive, internally consistent "document" originating from one mind (and then trying to invent "rational" explanations to account for all the inconsistencies between different stories).

    •  it was in the constitution because (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ranton
      why was it in the Constitution ?
      that was the only way to get the slave holding states to ratify it, and the "3/5's" rule. the author's didn't want it in, but they had to be realistic also. most of them figured slavery would die a natural death, once importing them was made illegal. jefferson knew it was wrong, and that it would eventually tear the country apart. unfortunately, he was also economically dependent on it, and just could never bring himself to do the right thing. the founders had feet o' clay.
  •  He is insane. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, ranton

    I wonder if this man has seen a psychiatrist. I suppose not, but that is the problem here.

    It goes beyond ignorance, beyond stupidity. It is sick.

    I am glad he finally was shunned by his party, but these people need to have their "crazy" seen by the world.

    It is painful to read.  It is painful to look at him. I have to wonder what strange dreams fill his head. He must have no compass at all. It would be frightening to be him, all upside down and inside out. I imagine it to be like wandering through  the fun house rooms they used to have at county fairs.

    I don't need this tonight. Someone must say something nice, something cheering, something full of promise and hope for a future filled with light.

    •  ha, I wish you were right (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Paul Rogers, ranton

      he's voicing the feelings and beliefs of his constituency. He's not a kook to them. They all believe the same sick shit. I know, I grew up hearing it.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:03:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe Jesus and Paul like Southerners (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VictorLaszlo, KathleenM1

    Didn't object to slavery because they were bad people.

  •  Surprise surprise (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, cacamp

    The GOP manages to prove, yet again, that it is the Good Ole Boys Party. I am not surprised or shocked any more. Their racism has been alive and well under President Obama and it is no wonder with uneducated hicks like this dumbass.

  •  Jesus Christ didn't have to tick off every single (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VictorLaszlo, niemann

    contingency, or make a statement for others to follow about every single thing.  Because he said this instead:

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

    It is the only ethical consideration that appears in every single religious or philosophical system, large or small, in the entire world.

    “And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.” ― William Gibson, Count Zero (-9.75 / -9.05)

    by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:35:56 PM PDT

    •  I don't really consider that a great statement. (0+ / 0-)

      It's fairly good, but it's subject to some pretty major interpretive faults.

      Here's one problem with that maxim.  It requires only that a person believes they are doing something to another person for their own good in order to still do it to them.  You can slip a whole lot of awfulness through that crack.

      Pro-lifers might argue that they want to prevent abortions because it's for the person's own good that they don't want them to later regret the decision.

      Then if there's a problem with the pregnancy and the woman dies, it was just a part of their god's plan.

      There's plenty of ways to get around that statement.

  •  If they think slavery is ok (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, VictorLaszlo

    Then perhaps we should introduce a law making those who vote for these guys into slaves and auction them off to fund planned parenthood.  If they think slavery is so great, thy ought not have any objections.  

    /snark

    Never believe your own press, never drink your own KoolAid

    by Mindful Nature on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:38:46 PM PDT

  •  Something he obviously didn't know (0+ / 0-)

    While it is true that the New Testament doesn't talk much about slavery, the Old Testament has rules regarding how people are to be treated. If memory serves me correctly, and I might be getting the length of time wrong here, a master was only allowed to keep a slave under Jewish law for seven years.

    At the end of that time the slave was to be set free and was to remain so, unless the slave chose to go back and work for the master.

    There is one thing in the New Testament that Jesus said, that I just remembered, I believe He said that one of the reasons He had come was to free the slaves.

    Huh, I wonder why he forgot these important points. In both circumstances the Bible explicitly states that slaves are to be freed.

    Funny that huh?

  •  RE: Paul and homosexuality (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jds1978, DMentalist
    And if banning abortion and gay people is so important, why didn't Jesus or Paul say anything about that?
    Actually, Paul was a bit obsessive about the gay thing. To be fair, he didn't say anything about the state getting involved; probably because at the time gay sex was fairly mainstream. But he frothed and fulminated against "unnatural" sex early and often.

    And he also said something about the state getting its power from God; so I guess fundamentalist legislators can tinker-toy these two positions together, and conclude that Paul (at least) is on their side.

    He may have been a prophet, but not enough of one to realize that he could have provided a more direct kind of succor to future lawmakers in one of his epistles.

    Isn't it a good feeling when you see the paper in the morning, it says 'Axe Slayer Kills 19' and you say, "They can't pin that one on me!" - Jean Shepherd

    by razajac on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:44:29 PM PDT

    •  Paul (0+ / 0-)

      was PART of the gay thing.

      It's called self-hatred.

      "I'm sorry, I have no pithy, insightful, enlightening quote for my signature." --- Me

      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:54:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Romans 1:18-32 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aramis Wyler

          Unfortunately, Kaili is wrong in her assertion about gays.  While I'm actually not aware of anything that Jesus said to condemn gays or homosexuality, Paul certainly did have something to say about it:

      Romans

           On the other hand, as I Googled for the Romans reference, I learned that there has been some relatively recent rethinking on the subject of exactly what Paul's position was:

      Paul on Homosexuality

           And his motivations:

      Was the Apostle Paul Gay?

           Really, I don't know why the Catholic Church & fundamentalist Christians seems to feel threatened by the recently discovered fragment that suggests Jesus might have been married.  They should be relieved.  Typically in those days, if a man was over 30, was unmarried, and spent all his time hanging out with 12 other dudes, that could only mean one thing...

  •  it's common knowledge here in Oklahoma (0+ / 0-)

    Slaves were happy working for their kind masters who gave them security and saved them from the jungle.

    The South has always stood by the Constitution and limited government. When one attacks the Confederate Battle Flag, he is certainly denouncing these principles of government as well as Christianity.
    they preach it from the pulpit and talk about it at the Chamber-of-Commerce and local Rotary. I actually wonder if slavery would win or lose as a ballot issue. I'm pretty it would be a close election.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:44:59 PM PDT

  •  I'm glad we don't have christian 'values'. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton, KathleenM1

    I'm glad we live in a nation that has secular values instead of christian 'values'.

    Secular values are far superior, and we have the duty to maintain them for the future people in the country and the world.

  •  Why does the GOP (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton

    dig up Lincoln every time they want the black vote, and then turn around and condemn him for the Emancipation Proclamation?  The GOP literally makes no sense anymore, if they ever did.

    "I'm sorry, I have no pithy, insightful, enlightening quote for my signature." --- Me

    by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:56:12 PM PDT

  •  Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery... (6+ / 0-)

    I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

    - Abraham Lincoln

  •  Ignoring scripture.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton

    because I ignore it.........aside from "'Do unto others.....".

    Why would any 'modern' person think that owning another person is 'okay'?

    This man is a 21st C. American, and yet he dwells in the 2nd C. BC.

    Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light such a candle by God's grace in England as shall never be put out.

    by Bollox Ref on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:01:03 PM PDT

    •  He has to justify his admiration for saints. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ranton

      Because if not, then it kind of casts bad light on everyone who ever owned a slave in history.

      It's much easier to make someone a saintly figure if they never did a bad thing in their life.

      Consider how Reagan is hailed as the patron saint of cutting taxes... Despite raising taxes many times.

      There's no sense to it, other than a delusional desire to deny history so you don't have to take a 'hard' complex view of reality.

      •  Magic thinking & faith in conservative mythology! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paul Rogers

        Robber Baron "ReTHUGisms": John D. Rockefeller -"The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets"; Jay Gould -"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

        by ranton on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 08:35:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Just went round and round on this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paul Rogers

    A posting on Facebook that referenced this info sheet about the distinct lack of God in the Constitution, U.S. Money, and the Pledge of Allegiance, etc.  until long after they had first been formulated drew a response from a true believer that got quite protracted.

    He kept trying to put across the idea that the founding fathers were far more religious than we've been taught, and that putting "Under God" into the Pledge was getting back to their original intent. He was insistent that the Constitution is based on Natural Law - the Christian variety - and that all our rights are ultimately derived from God. He further maintained that the founding fathers were really against socialism (although they didn't know to call it that back then) and essentially that God through the U.S. Constitution by way of Natural Law wants us all to be libertarians.

    He had all kinds of references he insisted we read, or we'd be too ignorant to discuss the matter intelligently. He would accept no counter arguments and dissed any references that contradicted his arguments. He finally got angry enough to start calling those of us who weren't buying his thesis "secularists". He kept demanding to know if we believed our rights come from A) God, or B) man.

    So, while we may scoff at Mauch, he's not alone out there, and they've built up a pretty elaborate structure of argument to support their belief system. This is why, among other things, they want to destroy public schooling and push vouchers, so the next generation can be taught "the truth" by them as knows it in their souls.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:12:49 PM PDT

  •  Why don't y'all stop talking (0+ / 0-)

    about slavery?

    We'll stop talking about slavery when you get rid of your huge confederate flag beach towels & stars & bars bumper stickers.

    "There ain't no sanity clause." Chico Marx

    by DJ Rix on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:52:27 PM PDT

  •  Stunning (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paul Rogers, ranton

    that in this day and age there exist people that do not find the possession of other people as chattel morally repulsive.  And now the GOP is shocked, shocked to discover such people in their party.  Since the launch of the Southern Strategy 45 years ago, they've been aggressively courting just such voters.  Now they're stuck with them.  Boo-fuckin'-hoo.

    -5.13,-5.64; If you gave [Jerry Falwell] an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox. -- Christopher Hitchens

    by gizmo59 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:58:26 PM PDT

  •  Slavery was so bad that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton

    250,000 black men joined the Union army.  Slavery was so bad that many risked their lives and used the Underground Railroad to go to Canada.

  •  Confederate Battle Flag???? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kimbeaux

    Kaili, the Confederate Battle Flag is a traitor's flag, a flag that represents people who do not support the US Constitution. I don't care about "The Southern Culture" any more than I don't care about the "The Lost Cause" or the "Southern Gentleman" who skates by the central question of women's rights, equal rights for all and especially rights for minorities who might never be able to vote themselves the rights they deserve (or unvote some law that takes away their rights).

    Nope, this character is dead wrong when he wears the US Flag on his lapel. He is dead wrong when he sits as a representative (local, state, federal level, it makes no never mind!) of his constituency, when he votes, he ultimately represents me and the millions like me that are not like HIM.

    Out with him!

    Ugh. --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of East Somalia!"

    by unclebucky on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 07:17:48 PM PDT

  •  Other unimportant things (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton, niemann

    If Stalinism was so bad, why didn't Jesus or St Paul denounce it ?

    If the US Constitution is so good why didn't Jesus or St Paul mention it ?

    If St Paul is so good why didn't Jesus mention him ?

  •  Well, golly Gee...burning the condemned (0+ / 0-)

    at the stake was condoned too.

    Robber Baron "ReTHUGisms": John D. Rockefeller -"The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets"; Jay Gould -"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

    by ranton on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 08:32:24 PM PDT

  •  The man asks a good question. (0+ / 0-)

    It's because Jesus and Paul never existed.  

    Romney '12: Berlusconi without the sex and alcohol!

    by Rich in PA on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 03:48:10 AM PDT

  •  Saw a great line recently.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Americantrueandblue
    The Republicans have moved from being The Party of Lincoln to The Party of John Wilkes Booth.

    "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

    by bartcopfan on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:04:10 AM PDT

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