Skip to main content

I’m sick of talking about “abortion in cases of rape or incest” as if that is the short list of acceptable circumstances for safe, legal & affordable abortion

(posted at sgb tumblr)

to constantly talk about abortion and linking it to these terms is to allow anti-choicers / anti-uterused persons to ban all other abortions.

this. shit. has. to. end.

Abortion needs to be safe, legal and affordable even in cases of

   “I fucked your brains out and your 10 friends because I wanted to get fucked by cocks and I loved every minute of it AND I don’t want a fucking baby.  nor do I want to have the first conversation about it with you, a priest or a goddamn relative.  my cunt, my body and you can fuck off.  period.”
that’s abortion access and that’s not negotiable.

if you have a problem with it, you can go play with your own genitals and stay the hell away from everyone else’s.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Agreed (11+ / 0-)

    In our camp, this should be the party line.

    Leave the "acceptable" forms of abortion to the forced birth crowd.

  •  I agree that abortion should be legal and safe (7+ / 0-)

    for anyone seeking it, but I would not use your example as a marketing tool for this perspective.  

    I think we need to keep underscoring that abortion is a personal decision and someone else's religion should not dictate what medical procedures anyone has access to.

    If only we could make war illegal except in cases of "legitimate" threats.  Heh.  

    •  It is a fabulous marketing tool. (8+ / 0-)

      It is exactly the stance taken by currently fertile young women like my daughters.  Want their vote?  Quit being polite.

      Polite is useless given what and who we are resisting. Polite gets Forced Birthers called "prolife" instead of called perverted Forced Birth terrorists, which is what they are.

      Your way sucks the big badoody. No more little white gloves and intellectual political resistance. It is useless.

      I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

      by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:17:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "perverted Forced Birth terrorists" (6+ / 0-)

        game. set. match.

        <3

        •  Damn straight. Watch me do it again. (13+ / 0-)

          Wherein I End the Abortion Debate.

          There is nothing to 'debate.'

          My ova, my fetuses, my children and my sexual organs are mine. They are not YOURS. They are not the State's. My sexual life is private and not subject to public or religious review.

          My sexuality is private. Why would anyone presume to discuss it with me? Or follow me down the street trying to give me a baby blanket or wave a sign in my face. Simple. They are getting off.

          A fact of women's lives, from the moment they get close to puberty and sometimes before, is that somebody is always trying to rub up against you. I am drawing a line in the sand. No discussion. My sexuality is private. Mind your own business. That is a truly American value.

           Anyone who performs some action on my life/body to resolve or relieve their own desires or discomfort without request or consent from me is a rapist. That is the definition of rape.

          I include in the set (rapists) those who describe themselves as 'prochoice' whose benevolence includes acting economically and morally to 'make abortion rare.' Bugger off. You are all intrusive, annoying, and perverted in your focus. Mind your own sex organs. I do not want you thinking about or doing anything about mine.

          I want the Democratic Party to live up to the party platform and defend and provide for the welfare of women by unequivocally supporting safe and legal medical abortion and contraception. I am encouraged by some signs that Democrats will do so. Or if you cannot stand Democrats, vote Green or Socialist or Independent. But Vote.

          Governments only responsibility is to teach human biology to those in public schools. When the Government has the Stones to do that, at the least, then we can talk. The European countries have lower teen pregnancy rates and lower rates of infant/mother mortality because they teach human biology to their children. And they provide universal health care.

          I make no bones about it. My issue is Women's Health and Freedom. You could be the best thing since sliced bread on all the issues, but mess with Roe v. Wade and abortion access and your ass is mine. Figuratively speaking of course. I am no slimy terrorist.

          I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

          by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:25:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not true, though, that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CherryTheTart, phonegery

            most abortions are obtained by slutty girls who like to bang. THey have rights, of course, but that is kind of a myth. Most woman who've had abortions have at least one kid at home.

            "...annoyingly ethical,"

            by chicating on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:41:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Speaking as a slutty girl (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              milton333, sexgenderbody

              . . .  who really really loves to bang, I have to tell you that I have definitely had more abortions than any woman here.

              I have banged more men than I can count on all my digits at least 20 times over.

              I am the FemiNazi slut all these pervert Forced Birthers dream about. I get to give my body in the service of any damn sexual thrill I choose. Nobody else gets to donate my body in the service of anything in this world.

              So many men, so little time.  

              I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

              by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:50:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  They're not mutually exclusive (3+ / 0-)

              Can't I be a slutty woman who likes to bang, and have a child at home?  Cause I do, to both.

              Thought is only a flash in the middle of a long night, but the flash that means everything - Henri Poincaré

              by milton333 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:51:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Pervert is such a useful word. (7+ / 0-)

        I live in Alabama, where pervert is code for L, G, B, T or anybody else who does anything I don't want to do. I tell 'em THEY are the perverts for poking their noses in other people's bedrooms.

        Healthy people do not devote more than one hot second to investigating and controlling consensual adult sexual activities that do not involve them personally.

        Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

        by susanala on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:33:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's a fabulous marketing tool for people (0+ / 0-)

        who already agree with you.  But if this is an issue that people actually vote on, it's probably a good idea not to offend the sensibilities of those on the fence so graphically.  I think most women agree abortion should be legal and available, but many would not like to have it just be viewed as another option for birth control for those who don't take the time or responsibility to use other forms preventively.  Seriously.

  •  Hear! Hear! (7+ / 0-)

    Didnt expect to read "I wanted to get fucked by cocks" but hey, it's the absolute truth for some women!

    Peace thru hemp / hemp for life!

    by Boudicia Dark on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:57:39 AM PDT

  •  Please (0+ / 0-)
    I wanted to get fucked by cocks and I loved every minute of it
    Do go on...

    Once again, Republicans show there is no fact that they feel the need to learn. ~ Fordmandalay

    by MeMeMeMeMe on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:58:04 AM PDT

  •  I agree (7+ / 0-)

    All the rape and incest exception does is make clear that anyone who supports it is out to punish the mother.

    Paul Ryan correctly says that if the bean is a person, we have to protect it no matter how it got there.

    It isn't a person, which means that no one but the mother gets to choose.

    Numbers are like people . . . Torture them enough and they'll tell you anything.

    by Actuary4Change on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:58:38 AM PDT

  •  Very persuasive language (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crabby Abbey

    This will convince many on the other side.

    •  "the other side" has zero desire to be persuaded (12+ / 0-)

      they already insinuate that uterused persons having sex are bad decision makers / immoral / amoral / not good god believers / moochers / whatever... in their fully apparent and overtly worshiped worldview, sex = sin for people with a uterus - EXCEPT when making babies.

      you name an argument that has worked ever with that crowd.

      •  I've said this before (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sexgenderbody, CherryTheTart

        The "party of personal responsibility" supposedly used to value personal responsibility.  It's responsible for me to realize I'm not interested in being a mom, whether that's "ever" or "right now. " Not interested in foregoing booze, cigarettes, sushi, brie, etc., while I gestate a fetus.  Not interested in developing stretch marks, causing my breasts to sag, getting an episiotomy and scarring my vaginal entroitus, just to give a baby up for adoption.  Not willing to risk stroke or other health problems from an unwanted pregnancy.  Just not willing to do any of it, not willing to sacrifice my body, mental health, finances, etc.  

        I just don't want to.  That's reason enough not to force me.

        I say this as a mother of a child I adore.  But I had him when I wanted to and when I was ready, because I was willing to take on the sacrifices.  And it was a challenging pregnancy, a post-partum period with such extreme anxiety that I was barely functional, and such a strain on my marriage and my body and mental health, that I decided I'm done.  Not interested in any more kids.  And that's nobody's business but mine.

        Thought is only a flash in the middle of a long night, but the flash that means everything - Henri Poincaré

        by milton333 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:38:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  About time! (3+ / 0-)

    I've been thinking this very thing for awhile now.

    If you don't agree with abortions then don't have one!

    Just like I am against gay marriage (or homosexuality).

    ...for MYSELF!

    For everyone else, I am almost as happy as they are that they found someone they love and want to spend their life with.

    Some of these positions our side takes as a form of "bargaining" are ridiculous.  

  •  Agree your morals and my body don't mix. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    Your block quote, however right, won't win any arguments.

    Better to go with the forced kidney donation, or forced bone marrow donation. "Give your body, because it is the right thing to do."  Ohh they don't like that. It's their bone marrow to do with what they please.  No kidney of mine is gonna go, I might need it.

    I give the Big Bird to those who say Obama lost the debate.

    by 88kathy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:04:19 AM PDT

  •  Well It's Great That You Feel That Way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CherryTheTart

    And I pretty much agree with you, but we have to live in the real world as far as the policies we have (and the policies that people seek to put in place).

    Too Folk For You. - Schmidting in the Punch Bowl - verb - Committing an unexpected and underhanded political act intended to "spoil the party."

    by TooFolkGR on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:04:38 AM PDT

    •  Fuck (i.e., notfuck) a "real world" that (5+ / 0-)

      intends to force me to gestate and give birth against my will; and offers me, as my only alternative, isolation from any activity or association that may open me to the risk of incest or rape. And let's say, strictly arguendo, that I accept a cloistered, hermetic life from menarche to menopause; or a life from menarche to menopause on mechanical or hormonal birth control to preclude any risk of conception via extra-familial rape. How the fuck do I, as an adolescent, isolate myself from parents, siblings, extended family, or guardians intent on raping me at home; or force family/guardians to provide me birth control before they rape me?

      Yes, it IS great for women who want heterosex, heterosex, and more heterosex to have the unfettered right to engage in heterosex, heterosex, and more heterosex without having to endure forced birth.

      !! Four more years !!

      by raincrow on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:43:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Count me in. (6+ / 0-)

    It's my body, end of conversation. Up to the point where the infant could be birthed and live without machinery, it is my body and my decision. The point of when life begins has nothing to do with this issue.

    Thanks for putting this in the open.

    It's not about the hundred people whose minds you can't change. It's about the two people you empower. ~ Beth Ditto

    by dejavu on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:04:41 AM PDT

  •  I agree (16+ / 0-)

    When we attack right wingers as extremist for being against abortion in cases of rape and incest, rather than attacking them for simply being against abortion, we are buying into the argument that pregnancy is the moral price for consensual sex.

    It legitimizes the argument that a women who chose to have sex has more of a duty to carry a pregnancy to term than one who did not.  

    From a progressive point of view, being against the right to an abortion except in cases of rape and incest is actually a less defensible position than being against the right to abortion in all cases (except to save the life of the mother - which is a different issue).

    We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

    by RageKage on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:14:16 AM PDT

  •  I agree, although I probably wouldn't use the word (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crabby Abbey

    "cunt" to make your point.

    Lisa Brown showed us the way when she simply used "vagina" (and look at what a fuss that word caused!)

    Although, technically speaking, I suppose she should have said "uterus" instead...

  •  Works for me! (4+ / 0-)

    !! Four more years !!

    by raincrow on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:27:12 AM PDT

  •  Abortion on demand and without apology! (7+ / 0-)

    The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. Mark Twain

    by BlueMississippi on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:30:55 AM PDT

  •  Yes. Yes. Yes. And thank you. n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sexgenderbody, CherryTheTart, Avilyn

    The good we secure for ourselves is precarious and uncertain, is floating in mid-air, until it is secured for all of us and incorporated into our common life. Jane Addams

    by Alice Olson on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 10:41:39 AM PDT

  •  Werlll... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    ... I am not sure I agree.

    I think your blockquoted phrase is an excellent reason to use birth control, including the morning-after kind.  I don't think it's a good reason to get an abortion.

    Do I think abortion should be legal in such cases?  Absolutely it should be.  Absolutely.  But that's primarily because there's no way to outlaw having an abortion for a bad reason without leaving the door open to outlawing abortion for a good reason -- and, while we're at it, because I don't trust anyone (including myself) to be the arbiter of what constitutes a good reason.

    The national dialogue on the subject is so polarized that any compromise is a foothold for the other side to gain more ground.  We cannot stand for any attempt to legislate what women can do with the insides of their own bodies, because the people fighting for that legislation have made no secret of what their endgame is.

    What I hate about this polarization is that it closes off discussion to any middle ground between the positions of 'abortion = babymurder' and 'abortion = flossing'.  I do believe that this middle ground exists -- and I think it would be worse than useless to attempt to introduce it into law.

    •  There is no "middle ground" where my body is (3+ / 0-)

      . . . concerned.  There is no debate. I am not a chattel slave.

      Stop trivializing the issue as you do below. It is offensive.  Particularly to me who lived and was young and fertile before The Pill and legal abortion.  It was a horror show for women.

      What I hate about this polarization is that it closes off discussion to any middle ground between the positions of 'abortion = babymurder' and 'abortion = flossing'.  

      I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

      by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 11:14:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I apologize for sounding flippant. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't mean to trivialize the issue; it's one I feel very strongly about as well, and that tends to come out in inappropriate snark sometimes.  Sorry.

        And as regards who has the right to say what we can and can't do with our bodies, of course there is no middle ground.  We can't allow any middle ground, for exactly the reason you give: down that road lies chattel slavery.

        I do nonetheless feel there is a middle ground in how we could think about and discuss the issue of abortion, if the issue of our legal rights to choose abortion were not under constant hostile assault.

        •  Roe v. Wade is the middle ground. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sexgenderbody, milton333

          No further middle ground is needed or wanted.  

          Roe v. Wade protects "prolife" as well as prochoice women from the government. A government that can compel birth also has the right to compel abortion.

          Do not apologize to me.  Clean up your mind and mores. Stand for women.  We are being mind and body raped daily by the "moral" and the "reasonable."  

          I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

          by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 11:45:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is exactly what I mean. (0+ / 0-)

            Somehow what I've said has given you the impression that I'm anti-choice.  Or am I misreading you?

            •  No. I do not think you are antichoice. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sexgenderbody, milton333

              I believe you when you say you are not politically anti choice. I am telling you how I see your comments.

              Frankly, it seems to me that you want to "negotiate" with terrorists.  When did that become a sensible thing to do? Or a reasonable thing to do?

              And you are telling women (who are drawing a firm line against further sexual abuse, rape and mindfucking) that they may be seen as "unreasonable" or a "bad salesperson" to those doing the sexual abuse, rape and mindfucking.

              I find that offensive. Truly offensive. Just saying.

              I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

              by CherryTheTart on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:12:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  what I want (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CherryTheTart, sexgenderbody

                Just to clarify, "unreasonable" and "bad salesperson" were not the arguments in my comment; those were elsewhere.  I have not brought up the question of what is going to convince people who don't already agree, because (a) I'm not sure anything is going to convince the people who don't already agree, and (b) that clearly wasn't the original point here.

                I don't want to negotiate with anybody.  I want a woman's legal right to choose to be not just established but unquestionable; I want that to be not the bottom line but the top line, a first principle, a matter beyond argument.

                What I want is to be able to discuss the issue of abortion in a framework where it is clearly understood that no one's personal opinions will or should be written into law, and that the pregnant woman's decision is and should be the last word.  And right now I can't do that, even in spaces where everybody agrees on those points.

    •  Birth control fails (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart

      So, then what?  

      Thought is only a flash in the middle of a long night, but the flash that means everything - Henri Poincaré

      by milton333 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:45:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CherryTheTart

        "I used birth control and it failed" strikes me as an unassailable reason to get an abortion.  As does "I was prevented from getting/using birth control".

        (Again, so we're clear:  I am under no misapprehension that my opinion about what constitutes a good reason ought to be anyone else's opinion, much less any basis for a law.)

  •  Rape/incest rule makes other women blameworthy (6+ / 0-)

    I have a tough time with the rape/incest/health of mother exception.

    On the one hand, of course I cringe at the thought of a woman being forced to bear a rapist's child, or the child of incest, or of a woman being forced to sacrifice her own life or health.

    On the other hand, those exceptions say a lot about pregnancy that I don't think their proponents realize. People who lobby for the exceptions are admitting that forcing a woman to carry, deliver, and then give away a child is a huge burden. It's a heavy weight financially, socially, emotionally, and probably other things I can't think of. What those people say is, certain people aren't going to be forced to carry that burden.

    But other people who can't prove those circumstances-- women who WERE raped, or the victims of incest, or whose health might suffer-- WILL be forced to carry, deliver and give away the child.

    It just makes little sense to me. If the life of the child is more important than the wishes of the mother (which I don't for a second believe) then there should be no exceptions. If the well being of the mother is more important in SOME circumstances, than it's more important in all circumstances.

    As much as I hate to admit it, I think that the states that are trying to eliminate exceptions are facing the issue more squarely than people who try to make the fact that government is making this decision more palatable, by exempting the most egregious examples.

    It's galling to me that this most personal decision can be made by someone other than the woman who will bear the cost of it for her whole life.

    •  actually (3+ / 0-)
      People who lobby for the exceptions are admitting that forcing a woman to carry, deliver, and then give away a child is a huge burden.
      I don't think they are, though.  They're admitting that in cases where something the pregnancy is exceptionally traumatic, allowances should be made -- but in all other cases, the huge burden of carrying, delivering, and giving away a child is taken for granted.
      It's a heavy weight financially, socially, emotionally, and probably other things I can't think of.
      Metabolically.  A pregnancy -- and I'm talking about a perfectly normal and healthy pregnancy, with no exceptional medical issues -- is a constant, inescapable drain on the bodily resources of the pregnant woman.  It's a physical weight, and one that you don't get to put down for the better part of a year.

      Leave off everything else: that alone is a burden that nobody should ever be forced to carry unwillingly.

      •  Shape of a mother (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CherryTheTart, sexgenderbody

        http://theshapeofamother.com/  Recommended if you have not already seen it.  Pregnancy takes a tremendous toll on a body, long after it's over.  I personally have vaginal scarring as a result of several episiotomies during my delivery, and I HATE that I don't recognize my own vaginal anymore, that my body has been transfigured into something that feels alien to me.  That my enjoyment of sex was forever altered for the rest of my life in my 30s.  Let alone that my breasts sag, that I have stretch marks, that I needed carpal tunnel surgery to resolve agonizing CT that didn't go away after delivery.

        Pregnancy and delivery change a woman's body.  To greater or lesser extents.  But it's not something that should ever be forced on someone unwilling, when there's a simple way to end an unwanted pregnancy.

        Thought is only a flash in the middle of a long night, but the flash that means everything - Henri Poincaré

        by milton333 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:50:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site